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'[EE]: IR fluorescence'
2001\06\11@185415 by Jinx

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Many substances fluoresce under UV light. Are there any
which do so under IR or are the energy levels all wrong ?
I think short wavelength UV is converted to longer wave-
length visible light by the fluorescee and IR is longer than
visible. Just wondering if there's some quirk of nature/
physics that would make it possible to use invisible flood-
lighting

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2001\06\11@193415 by Mark Newland

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Worked with an IR laser once (used for police laser radar jamming).  For
short bursts I could use a LCD display altho the lower power of an LED
may not light it.  We also had this film that would glow when hit with
the laser.  I think we got it from radio shack but that was also 8 years
ago.

Jinx wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\06\11@200117 by L Vetrivel

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Jinx,
There are substances which absorb visible wavelengths and fluoresce in IR.
These are susually organic dyes. Search for IR Dyes in any search engines.
The problem however will be their stability and cost and these chemicals come
with big warning labels(about handling these chemicals). Usually these dyes
absorb around green.
Wouldn't you prefer to use a some sort of night vison google(Edmund
Scientific) and use simple IR led's to illuminate the objects. They work very
well.
Vetri

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2001\06\11@200135 by Jinx

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> Worked with an IR laser once (used for police laser radar jamming).
> For short bursts I could use a LCD display altho the lower power of
> an LED may not light it.

So do you think the lighting was caused by just sheer power ?

>  We also had this film that would glow when hit with the laser.
> I think we got it from radio shack but that was also 8 years
> ago.

That's more along the lines of what I was thinking of, but which
would work with LEDs

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2001\06\11@201205 by Bill Westfield

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   Many substances fluoresce under UV light. Are there any
   which do so under IR or are the energy levels all wrong ?

The energy levels are wrong.


   I think short wavelength UV is converted to longer wave-length visible
   light by the fluorescee and IR is longer than visible.

Exactly.  For fluorescence, you absorb a photon at one wavelength/energy,
and emit at a different (lower!) energy level.  It's tough to go from a
lower energy photo to a higher energy one.  (altough - I think radio shack
(of all places) used to sell an "IR detecting phosphor thing" that could be
activated by exposing to UV, and would then emit in the visible region when
stimulated with IR...)


   Just wondering if there's some quirk of nature/physics that would make
   it possible to use invisible flood- lighting

Well, modern semiconductor image sensors (CCDs and CMOS) are pretty
sensitive to near-IR, and there is no shortage of vendors selling "see in
the dark" video system consisting of IR-sensitive cameras and IR LEDs as a
light source.  Likewise, most "image intensifiers" work in the IR range.
If your "floodlighting" is for use by a camera, you're all set.

BillW

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2001\06\11@201417 by Anders_Mejl=E6nder_Jakhelln?=

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I know there is a credit card sized passive device that will take charge when exposed to visible light. On the card there is a small window which is used to test ir remote controls (this device is used by tv repair guys). It glows up when hit by the ir light.

I don't know what kind of material it uses or where you can get it (I just can't remember)...

Anders
{Original Message removed}

2001\06\11@202902 by Kyrre Aalerud

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Can I get this in the reverse sense ???

I want invisible IR light from IR-diodes to activate a paint and dye that wil glow or fluoresce...
The dye should be water solvable and oil-based, not pigment based.  (Or it will wear out my pump blades)


{Original Message removed}

2001\06\11@203944 by Jinx

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> I want invisible IR light from IR-diodes to activate a paint and
> dye that wil glow or fluoresce

That's what I'm looking for. The IR-activated equivalent of Day-Glo

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2001\06\11@205242 by Jinx

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> If your "floodlighting" is for use by a camera, you're all set.

It isn't unfortunately. I've seen that effect with solid-state cameras

The enquiry was just a "stab in the dark", er, not that there are
any nefarious intentions

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2001\06\11@235540 by Mark Newland

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Jinx wrote:

> > Worked with an IR laser once (used for police laser radar jamming).
> > For short bursts I could use a LCD display altho the lower power of
> > an LED may not light it.
>
> So do you think the lighting was caused by just sheer power ?

Yes,  the glow from the LCD was not very bright and would only last for a
short period.  Almost like the effect of a charging capacitor.

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2001\06\12@030243 by spam

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Dear light enthusiasts.

The definition of Fluorescence is that it converts a shorter wavelength to a
longer (ie ultra violet to green or so).

The phenomenon you need is phosphorescence, which converts a longer
wavelength to a shorter. Phosphor is one guess.

Energy is absorbed by a phosphorescent substance, causing some of the
electrons of the crystal to be displaced. These electrons become trapped in
potential troughs from which they are eventually freed by temperature-related
energy fluctuations within the crystal. As they fall back to their original energy
levels, they release their excess energy in the form of light. Impurities in the
crystal can play an important role, some serving as activators or coactivators,
others as sensitizers, and still others as inhibitors, of phosphorescence.
Organo-phosphors are organic dyes that fluoresce in liquid solution and
phosphoresce in solid solution or when adsorbed on gels. Their
phosphorescence, however, is not temperature-related, as ordinary
phosphorescence is, and some consider it instead to be a type of fluorescence
that dies slowy.

You might want to try zinc sulphide (green) or alkaline earth sulphides (red)
or check
http://www.gtamart.com/mart/products/phspgmnt/pigments.htm


Happy hunting
Kent

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2001\06\12@032519 by Ron Wilder

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I have the radio shack card that was discussed in one of the responses.
Part number was 276-0099, if this is any help.  It does work well.  You
have to "charge it up" with fluorescent or sun light then it will respond
to IR.  The response curve on the back of the card shows it peaking at
around 1000 to 1100 nm.  The material is orange/yellow in color and glows
bright yellow when IR (such as that from a remote control) is aimed at
it.  Its response is fast enough that you can see the modulation pulses
of the remote control.
Good luck locating it. It is one of my more "valued" pieces of test
equipment as it quickly tells me if I need new batteries for my remotes
and also lets me know if an IR communication problem is in the emitter or
detector.
Ron

Jinx wrote:

> > I want invisible IR light from IR-diodes to activate a paint and
> > dye that wil glow or fluoresce
>
> That's what I'm looking for. The IR-activated equivalent of Day-Glo
>
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2001\06\12@040603 by Jinx

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> have to "charge it up" with fluorescent or sun light then it will
> respond to IR.  The response curve on the back of the card
> shows it peaking at around 1000 to 1100 nm.

How long does it take to charge ?

How long does the charge last ? Dependent on how much IR you
shine on it ?

> Good luck locating it.

As such it may be hard to find, but the chemicals in it would still
be around. Perhaps I'll have a go at Google and see what turns up

> It is one of my more "valued" pieces of test equipment as it
> quickly tells me if I need new batteries for my remotes
> and also lets me know if an IR communication problem is in the
> emitter or detector.
> Ron

That's sure quicker than booting up the scope and looking for that
test receiver you just knew was around here somewhere

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2001\06\12@042719 by spam

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Farnell has the IR sensors.

order no: 620-919

Kent

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2001\06\12@050740 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Many substances fluoresce under UV light. Are there any
>which do so under IR or are the energy levels all wrong ?
>I think short wavelength UV is converted to longer wave-
>length visible light by the fluorescee and IR is longer than
>visible. Just wondering if there's some quirk of nature/
>physics that would make it possible to use invisible flood-
>lighting

I have a little IR tester which consists of a piece of FR4 fibreglass sheet
with a dob of what looks like epoxy on the end. If you shine IR at it glows.
Its reaction is sufficient to use it to verify that a typical remote control
is illuminating its LED. I do not know what the epoxy is, but it appears to
be a test tool made by Kodak, I suspect for engineers to test IR sensors in
machines.

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2001\06\12@090629 by Olin Lathrop

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> Many substances fluoresce under UV light. Are there any
> which do so under IR or are the energy levels all wrong ?
> I think short wavelength UV is converted to longer wave-
> length visible light by the fluorescee and IR is longer than
> visible. Just wondering if there's some quirk of nature/
> physics that would make it possible to use invisible flood-
> lighting

What is the overall thing you are trying to achieve?  If you just want to
flood an area with IR light, you don't need flourescence to do it.  An
incandescent bulb run at low voltage makes a fairly efficient IR emitter.
There are also IR LEDs, but it is expensive to get a lot of power that way.
If you need very near IR but still not visible, put an IR filter over an
incandescent bulb.  You can then adjust the voltage so the peak of the black
body radiation is at the desired IR wavelength, and the filter will cut out
the little extra visible light it produces.


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, spam_OUTolinTakeThisOuTspamembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\06\12@092206 by Jinx

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> > Many substances fluoresce under UV light. Are there any
> > which do so under IR or are the energy levels all wrong ?
>
> What is the overall thing you are trying to achieve?  If you just
> want to flood an area with IR light, you don't need flourescence
> to do it.  An

What I've got is plenty of IR. What I'm looking for is a substance
that will turn the IR into visible light in the same way that phosphors
turn UV into visible light, eg the coatings on fluorescent tubes or
Day-Glo pigments. After looking around this evening it appears
that although substances such as rare earth ions and protein
dyes exist, they seem to be used only for analytical applicatons.
Fluorescence is much more commonly caused by UV, not IR
unfortunately

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2001\06\12@102332 by mike

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On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 01:22:30 +1200, you wrote:

>> > Many substances fluoresce under UV light. Are there any
>> > which do so under IR or are the energy levels all wrong ?
>>
>> What is the overall thing you are trying to achieve?  If you just
>> want to flood an area with IR light, you don't need flourescence
>> to do it.  An
>
>What I've got is plenty of IR. What I'm looking for is a substance
>that will turn the IR into visible light in the same way that phosphors
>turn UV into visible light, eg the coatings on fluorescent tubes or
>Day-Glo pigments. After looking around this evening it appears
>that although substances such as rare earth ions and protein
>dyes exist, they seem to be used only for analytical applicatons.
>Fluorescence is much more commonly caused by UV, not IR
>unfortunately
If you have a REAL LOT, perhaps a solar cell and LED......!

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2001\06\12@102553 by Herbert Graf

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The best tool I've found is any CCD based device! :) My webcam works very
well for this, and things get really interesting when you remove the IR
blocking filter, you can use remotes as flashlights! :) Silicon is more
sensitive to IR then normal light and a webcam or other type of device with
it's IR blocking filter removed becomes a great poor man's night vision
system. TTYL

{Original Message removed}

2001\06\12@111726 by Pepper, Gary

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Silicon based sensors (such as CCDs without the IR blocking filters) have a
long-wavelength cut-off in the 1000 nm to 1100 nm wavelength region.  Some
companies (such as Ocean Optics) have had silicon CCDs coated with an IR
responsive phosphor, which respond to 1450 - 1500 nm (mid-IR).  You can also
purchase IR sensor cards from various optical component vendors (Newport,
Melles-Griot, Coherent) which will respond to various IR wavelength regions.
I have several which I use with a 1500 nm laser.  These IR sensor cards work
in the following manner:  You "charge" up the phosphor by exposure to
sunlight or room lighting.  When exposed to IR, these cards "glow" a
specific color (orange, in my IR sensor card), if suitable intensity if
present (they are not very sensitive!).  If you shine a low-wattage IR laser
on the card in a fixed location, you'll notice that the visible spot loses
intensity quickly under normal room lighting, because you are "discharging"
the phosphor faster than you are "charging" it by exposure to visible light.
of course, if the room lighting is too bright and the emitted glow from the
IR card is too faint, then you'll have difficulty seeing it!

You can purchase a surplus (used) IR conversion tube and power supply/optics
kit (when available)from places like Meredith Instruments.  These work well
with low-power IR sources, such as LEDs and low-power laser diodes (several
mW).

Gary



{Original Message removed}

2001\06\12@161454 by Ron Wilder

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Jinx wrote:

> > have to "charge it up" with fluorescent or sun light then it will
> > respond to IR.  The response curve on the back of the card
> > shows it peaking at around 1000 to 1100 nm.
>
> How long does it take to charge ?
>

a second or two

>
> How long does the charge last ? Dependent on how much IR you
> shine on it ?
>

a minute or two, I think... Haven't actually tested it.

{Quote hidden}

yup!
Ron

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2001\06\13@142628 by Peter L. Peres

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There is a quirk and it is called frequency doubling in optically
nonlinear substances. I understand that things are not that simple in
reality so it's more like in lasers, i.e. there is a third level involved,
but afaik blue diode lasers are one of the applications. Also Polaroid or
Kodak make some sort of lenses that convert IR to visible (yellowish)
light. They have been making them for a while now.

Peter

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2001\06\14@071639 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Kodak make some sort of lenses that convert IR to visible (yellowish)
>light. They have been making them for a while now.

This sounds like it might be what is in the sensor stick that I have that
came from Kodak. The epoxy bit glows a yellowish green when illuminated with
IR. It does not seem to need "charging" from some other light source like
the credit card sized device mentioned elsewhere.

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2001\06\14@163520 by mike

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On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:15:15 +0100, you wrote:

>>Kodak make some sort of lenses that convert IR to visible (yellowish)
>>light. They have been making them for a while now.
>
>This sounds like it might be what is in the sensor stick that I have that
>came from Kodak. The epoxy bit glows a yellowish green when illuminated with
>IR. It does not seem to need "charging" from some other light source like
>the credit card sized device mentioned elsewhere.
These card devices glow neon orange.

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