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'[EE]: How to jamm a cell phone?'
2001\03\23@065611 by Octavio P Nogueira

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I need some link showing how to jam a cell phone.
I need something practical, not only theoretical.

Friendly Regards

Octavio Nogueira
===================================================
spam_OUTnogueiraTakeThisOuTspampropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
ProPic tools - low cost PIC programmer and emulator
http://www.propic2.com
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2001\03\23@072356 by Alan B. Pearce

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A trembler coil with a spark plug and a cell phone aerial connected to the top
of the spark plug?

All knowledge of sending this message denied - just don't get caught by the RF
police.

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2001\03\23@081224 by Herbert Graf

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Octavio P Nogueira
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 06:56
> To: PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [EE]: How to jamm a cell phone?
>
>
> I need some link showing how to jam a cell phone.
> I need something practical, not only theoretical.

     I hope it is only theoretical because in most countries those things
are highly illegal, and rightfully so. I hope you are ready for the
liability of owning one of those things. TTYL

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2001\03\23@082236 by Tom Mariner

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Hello Octavio,

There are differing methods of modulating and encoding the cell phone signal
in the US. They range from (relatively) simple frequency and amplitude
modulation to CDMA. On the CDMA random noise is probably not going to have
an effect because the encoding was designed for that environment.. Even the
time domain encoded stuff has a degree of noise immunity built in. You
probably are going to have some luck with simplistic approaches with AMPS
(the original US standard) however. You job is complicated by the fact that
the cell phone and PCS ranges are separated by approximately an octave,
meaning you have to produce energy in more than one frequency band to be
effective.

However, the fact that you are producing RF energy means you are an
"intentional radiator" and therefore need a license for what you are asking
unless the signal strength is very low. It probably wouldn't affect any
device that was not in the immediate vicinity -- But then again, I presume
that's the idea anyway. In any case, I'll bet that the FCC would frown on
any such use of the airwaves that someone ponied up $8 Billion for -- and
their frowns normally cost $10,000 per unit.

Since virtually any RF signal has widely differing ranges for a given
antenna, you'll probably also be shutting off the access to the cash
register, the heart monitor four tables away, and the  fellow receiving his
stock tip four blocks away.

I do like reading the stories, however, on the Japanese restaurants
"jamming" cell phones.

Tom

{Original Message removed}

2001\03\23@084352 by Justin Fielding

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Don't you just hate all these FCC junkies.

Give it a try, stop people from using cell phones in your house or shop.
Why should someone else be allowed to tell you what RF you are allowed to
use on your property.  Just don't take it further than that.  As long as you
are not effecting people who are not on your site then what's the problem?
One good reason for doing this may be to stop workers from sending text
messages and chatting on their mobiles when they should be working.

J.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Mariner" <.....tmarinerKILLspamspam.....OPTONLINE.NET>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 1:22 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: How to jamm a cell phone?


> Hello Octavio,
>
> There are differing methods of modulating and encoding the cell phone
signal
> in the US. They range from (relatively) simple frequency and amplitude
> modulation to CDMA. On the CDMA random noise is probably not going to have
> an effect because the encoding was designed for that environment.. Even
the
> time domain encoded stuff has a degree of noise immunity built in. You
> probably are going to have some luck with simplistic approaches with AMPS
> (the original US standard) however. You job is complicated by the fact
that
> the cell phone and PCS ranges are separated by approximately an octave,
> meaning you have to produce energy in more than one frequency band to be
> effective.
>
> However, the fact that you are producing RF energy means you are an
> "intentional radiator" and therefore need a license for what you are
asking
> unless the signal strength is very low. It probably wouldn't affect any
> device that was not in the immediate vicinity -- But then again, I presume
> that's the idea anyway. In any case, I'll bet that the FCC would frown on
> any such use of the airwaves that someone ponied up $8 Billion for -- and
> their frowns normally cost $10,000 per unit.
>
> Since virtually any RF signal has widely differing ranges for a given
> antenna, you'll probably also be shutting off the access to the cash
> register, the heart monitor four tables away, and the  fellow receiving
his
> stock tip four blocks away.
>
> I do like reading the stories, however, on the Japanese restaurants
> "jamming" cell phones.
>
> Tom
>
> {Original Message removed}

2001\03\23@085526 by Bond Peter S-petbond1

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> Give it a try, stop people from using cell phones in your
> house or shop.

Yeah, go for it.  See what happens to you as a result.  The licences get
sold at very high prices to people who can afford them.  These same
organisations tend to be less than happy at people interfering with their
right (real or imagined) to use the frequency band they have purchased the
rights to.

> Why should someone else be allowed to tell you what RF you
> are allowed to
> use on your property.  Just don't take it further than that.

???
RF doesn't exactly stop at an arbitrary boundary.  Being radiation, it sort
of... well.. radiates.  Outwards.

I can pick up our on-site picocells on my mobile outside the boundaries of
the site.  Bear in mind - this stuff is developed, tested and analysed
minutely - not some jury-rigged lashup.  (Honest!)

> As long as you
> are not effecting people who are not on your site then what's
> the problem?
> One good reason for doing this may be to stop workers from
> sending text
> messages and chatting on their mobiles when they should be working.

Possibly.  However, the majority of people around me using their mobiles are
doing so for work. YMMV.

If you *really* want to jam cellphones, you want a basestation with
sufficient power to swamp the other stations in the vicinity.  Bear in mind,
they tend to be large, not terribly mobile and require sizeable antenna
(which over here, require planning permission).  You'd only need one radio
(GSM - TDMA), as you'd only need to knacker the BCH.

I'm sure I could put you in touch with someone who could sell you one... <G>

Peter

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2001\03\23@090449 by Olin Lathrop

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> I need some link showing how to jam a cell phone.
> I need something practical, not only theoretical.

You need to not do that.  I don't know where you live, but that is most
likely illegal.  I'm not going to help you do that.


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, olinspamspam_OUTembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\03\23@091447 by Kevin Blain

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It's not illegal to block the signals using screened walls, etc.

>       I hope it is only theoretical because in most countries those things
> are highly illegal, and rightfully so. I hope you are ready for the
> liability of owning one of those things. TTYL

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2001\03\23@091707 by Bob Ammerman

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If you want to jam cellphones on your own premises just turn the whole place
into a big Faraday cage :-)

No illegal transmission required.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

{Original Message removed}

2001\03\23@092107 by Octavio P Nogueira

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No, in this case it's not illegal, see my other post.

Friendly Regards

Octavio Nogueira
===================================================
@spam@nogueiraKILLspamspampropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
ProPic tools - low cost PIC programmer and emulator
http://www.propic2.com
===================================================

{Original Message removed}

2001\03\23@092112 by Octavio P Nogueira

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> Yeah, go for it.  See what happens to you as a result.  The licences get
> sold at very high prices to people who can afford them.  These same
> organisations tend to be less than happy at people interfering with their
> right (real or imagined) to use the frequency band they have purchased the
> rights to.

Let me explain a little further. Here in Brazil last
month we had the biggest rebelion on our prisions.
The rebelion was controlled by cell phone from inside
the prision. We want to jamm the cell phones inside
the prision.
Don't me ask why the cell phones are inside the prision.

> (which over here, require planning permission).  You'd only need one radio
> (GSM - TDMA), as you'd only need to knacker the BCH.
>
> I'm sure I could put you in touch with someone who could sell you one...
<G>

What is BCH? could you put me in contact with someone who couls sell me one?

Friendly Regards

Octavio Nogueira
===================================================
KILLspamnogueiraKILLspamspampropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
ProPic tools - low cost PIC programmer and emulator
http://www.propic2.com
===================================================

{Original Message removed}

2001\03\23@092337 by Bond Peter S-petbond1

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> If you want to jam cellphones on your own premises just turn
> the whole place
> into a big Faraday cage :-)
>
> No illegal transmission required.

Yeah, but rebar doesn't work (enough)...

More bars on the windows?

Peter

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2001\03\23@092910 by Dale Botkin

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I have a simpler method -- just hire me to hang around.  My cellular never
works worth mentioning pretty much anywhere.

Or maybe just get everyone to switch to AT&T digital, that would do it
too.

On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Bob Ammerman wrote:

> If you want to jam cellphones on your own premises just turn the whole place
> into a big Faraday cage :-)
>
> No illegal transmission required.
>
> Bob Ammerman
> RAm Systems
> (contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
> software)
>
> {Original Message removed}

2001\03\23@093127 by Bond Peter S-petbond1

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> Let me explain a little further. Here in Brazil last
> month we had the biggest rebelion on our prisions.
> The rebelion was controlled by cell phone from inside
> the prision. We want to jamm the cell phones inside
> the prision.
> Don't me ask why the cell phones are inside the prision.

OK - that is a little more info, thanks.  Heard about it.  So my "more bars
on the window" flippancy was more accurate than I'd have guessed?

> What is BCH? could you put me in contact with someone who
> couls sell me one?

Sorry - I was being somewhat facetious.

BCH is the channel on GSM that mobiles need in order to work.  It is a known
freq (has to be!), and without it, there is no network.  Just off the cuff,
a basestation probably *could* be set up to do what you ask, and set the
power according to required range.  HOWEVER - it would almost certainly
affect people outside the site - they'd lose network coverage.

Of course, I don't know whether Brazil uses GSM or not.

If you seriously want to get this done, your best bet would be to contact a
sales rep local to you - I think ours can be found from the web site, but in
order to avoid accusations of commercial bias, I probably ought to recommend
Nokia, Ericsson et al too!

Simply put - I don't think this is a trivial (or likely PIC-based) solution?
Nor will it be cheap.

HTH

Peter

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2001\03\23@093741 by Quentin

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Some time ago this same discussion took place here. Somebody mentioned a
unit made in Isreal for jamming. There was a page which I don't have the
link for.
Maybe this will "ring" a bell in somebody's head.

Or check back in the archives.

Quentin

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2001\03\23@101250 by Gordon Varney (personal)

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> > Let me explain a little further. Here in Brazil last
> > month we had the biggest rebelion on our prisions.
> > The rebelion was controlled by cell phone from inside
> > the prision. We want to jamm the cell phones inside
> > the prision.
> > Don't me ask why the cell phones are inside the prision.
>

It seems to me that the Government or police in Brazil has the power to tell
the cell provider to disable or lockout cell traffic in a particular area.
The cell provider could start locking out all cell phones active at a
specific moment. Have the police not use there phones for a short period of
time and start locking out users that become active until the police are
confident of disabling most if not all of the cell phones in use by the
prisoners.

Gordon Varney

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2001\03\23@101711 by Bond Peter S-petbond1

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> It seems to me that the Government or police in Brazil has
> the power to tell
> the cell provider to disable or lockout cell traffic in a
> particular area.

Governments can usually do pretty much what they want.  Or am I merely being
cynical?

> The cell provider could start locking out all cell phones active at a
> specific moment. Have the police not use there phones for a
> short period of
> time and start locking out users that become active until the
> police are
> confident of disabling most if not all of the cell phones in
> use by the
> prisoners.

Just shut the basestation handling that cell down.  Or you could lock them
out by IMEI.  Or IMSI.  (again - these are GSM only that I'm wittering
about).

Peter

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2001\03\23@102509 by Ken Godee

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Check out C-Guard Cellular Firewall at
http://www.c-guard.com/


{Quote hidden}

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2001\03\23@125120 by Octavio P Nogueira

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> Of course, I don't know whether Brazil uses GSM or not.
No, not yet.

> If you seriously want to get this done, your best bet would be to contact
a
> sales rep local to you - I think ours can be found from the web site, but
in
> order to avoid accusations of commercial bias, I probably ought to
recommend
> Nokia, Ericsson et al too!
>
> Simply put - I don't think this is a trivial (or likely PIC-based)
solution?
> Nor will it be cheap.
One company if offering a sysmtem but they are
asking $600,000 for the system.

Friendly Regards

Octavio Nogueira
===================================================
spamBeGonenogueiraspamBeGonespampropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
ProPic tools - low cost PIC programmer and emulator
http://www.propic2.com
===================================================

{Original Message removed}

2001\03\23@181403 by Alexandre D. F. Souza

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>Let me explain a little further. Here in Brazil last
>month we had the biggest rebelion on our prisions.
>The rebelion was controlled by cell phone from inside
>the prision. We want to jamm the cell phones inside
>the prision.
>Don't me ask why the cell phones are inside the prision.

       Octavio, this is a simple way to block it: Use a simple scanner to know what is the number of the cell that's inside of the prision. Do you have the number? Deactivate it at Telefonica!!!

       This is simple. They just don't want to do.

       And after they say we (brazilians) are dumb people...


--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
       TakeThisOuTtaitoEraseMEspamspam_OUTterra.com.br <<NOVO EMAIL!
       Linux User #85093

--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------
DVD Livre para todos!!! / Free DVD for Everyone!
$_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$b=73;$c=142;$t=255;@t=map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=( $m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16 -2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271);if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h =5;$_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$ d=unxV,xb25,$_;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d8^($f=$t&($d12^$d4^ $d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e8^($t&($g=($q=$e14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9,$_=$t[$_]^ (($h=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval

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2001\03\23@181414 by Alexandre D. F. Souza

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>Don't you just hate all these FCC junkies.

       So good we don't have FCC in Brazil... :o) We have the Minicom, but they don't work either :oD

>Give it a try, stop people from using cell phones in your house or shop.
>Why should someone else be allowed to tell you what RF you are allowed to
>use on your property.  Just don't take it further than that.  As long as you
>are not effecting people who are not on your site then what's the problem?
>One good reason for doing this may be to stop workers from sending text
>messages and chatting on their mobiles when they should be working.

       Because you could never make a standard for transmitting vital data, like the marcapass lots of people has in the chest :oP


--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
       RemoveMEtaitospamTakeThisOuTterra.com.br <<NOVO EMAIL!
       Linux User #85093

--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------
DVD Livre para todos!!! / Free DVD for Everyone!
$_='while(read+STDIN,$_,2048){$a=29;$b=73;$c=142;$t=255;@t=map{$_%16or$t^=$c^=( $m=(11,10,116,100,11,122,20,100)[$_/16%8])&110;$t^=(72,@z=(64,72,$a^=12*($_%16 -2?0:$m&17)),$b^=$_%64?12:0,@z)[$_%8]}(16..271);if((@a=unx"C*",$_)[20]&48){$h =5;$_=unxb24,join"",@b=map{xB8,unxb8,chr($_^$a[--$h+84])}@ARGV;s/...$/1$&/;$ d=unxV,xb25,$_;$e=256|(ord$b[4])<<9|ord$b[3];$d=$d8^($f=$t&($d12^$d4^ $d^$d/8))<<17,$e=$e8^($t&($g=($q=$e14&7^$e)^$q*8^$q<<6))<<9,$_=$t[$_]^ (($h=8)+=$f+(~$g&$t))for@a[128..$#a]}print+x"C*",@a}';s/x/pack+/g;eval

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2001\03\23@191421 by Herbert Graf

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Tom Mariner
> Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 08:22
> To: EraseMEPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [EE]: How to jamm a cell phone?

> I do like reading the stories, however, on the Japanese restaurants
> "jamming" cell phones.

    Fortunately so far nobody has been stupid enough to do such a thing
here. There is a HUGE liability in jamming cell phones. Say a friend of mine
has a heart attack and because of the jammer I waste 60 seconds trying to
call 911. Now everyone knows how precious those few seconds were. Say my
friend dies and it can be proven that if the call came through 60 seconds
earlier he would have lived (hard but not impossible to prove), how much
should I sue that restaurant for? Jamming cell phones is NOT a solution,
social control is the only way to do it. This is ignoring how difficult it
would be to jam ALL cell phones in NA. TTYL

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2001\03\23@191830 by Herbert Graf

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True, but the poster was interested in a jammer, I don't consider a faraday
cage a jammer, attenuator perhaps. TTYL

> {Original Message removed}

2001\03\24@045422 by Alexey Vladimirov

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P>      Fortunately so far nobody has been stupid enough to do such a thing
P> here.

Jamming cellurar phones is very common practice in many countries - in
restaraunts, cinemas, theatres, museums, banks, clinics, some private
companies, etc - where phone ring can disturb people. Usually you can see sign
- "No cellular" there.

P> There is a HUGE liability in jamming cell phones. Say a friend of
P> mine has a heart attack and because of the jammer I waste 60 seconds
P> trying to call 911. Now everyone knows how precious those few seconds
P> were. Say my friend dies and it can be proven that if the call came
P> through 60 seconds earlier he would have lived (hard but not
P> impossible to prove), how much should I sue that restaurant for?

Nothing. Cellurar phone service is not guaranteed service, you can use it only
on "AS IS" basis - check your agreement with the service provider. For example,
you can not sue mobile operator, if it did not work in some region for some
hours (common in developed countries - 2-3 hours out of service during the next
software update on the calling center). Typical cellular service availability -
90-95%, you can not rely on it in any safety-critical situations - use wired
phones instead.

P> Jamming cell phones is NOT a solution, social control is the only way
P> to do it.

In fact, jamming cellular phones is very common solution. There are many
companies, producing this equipment. Just few links:
http://www.admonsys.com/jammers/jam_4.htm
www.uptronindia.com/products/standard_hpjam.htm
www.spytec.com/spezialelektronik/handyblocker.htm
http://www.retia.cz/retia/uk_rm.htm
www.cb-security.com/catalogue/sirjam2.htm
http://www.cguard.com/English/latests/index.html

Alexey

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2001\03\24@054946 by artstar

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No, but to transmit or radiate a frequency only available for manipulation
by licensed users is.

This raises an important and complex issue ... what right(s) do people have
in preventing other peoples right (imagined or not) to communicate with
others?

Now granted, it would be nice if everybody had a sense of mobile phone
etiquette, but if you stop someone from having a phone conversation no less
reasonable than a chat with a person across the dinner table, who is the one
out of line then?

Quite frankly, if someone dared to jam my signal, I'd beat them to a pulp
because nobody has the right to stop me from taking what could be a very
important call, irrespective of what influence it has on my future. I have
the common decency to keep my ringer low and my vibrating feature on so that
nobody is startled by my phone and I have a conversation at a volume no
different to my volume face to face. If that is unreasonable, give yourself
an uppercut. 3#-)


Adios,
LarZ

---------------  TAMA - The Strongest Name in Drums  ---------------

{Original Message removed}

2001\03\24@111602 by Herbert Graf

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{Quote hidden}

       I agree, and I wasn't talking about suing the cellular company, they have
covered themselves. However, if someone INTENTIALLY jammed my phone when I
needed it for an emergency situation involving life and limb I DO believe
there is some liability to speak of here.

{Quote hidden}

       I'm not saying it's not common, I'm saying alot would have to change in NA
for it to be done here, remember the US is known as the "suing capital" of
the world. TTYL

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2001\03\24@130607 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
>
>Nothing. Cellurar phone service is not guaranteed service, you can use it only
>on "AS IS" basis - check your agreement with the service provider.


Good luck in court.
The cell company may try and fail to deliver, but that's seen in a VERY
different light than intentional jamming, especially when  it's
contribuitory to injury or death.



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2001\03\25@065105 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> Of course, I don't know whether Brazil uses GSM or not.
>No, not yet.

In which case if it is an analogue system it would be necessary to shut down a
very large number of base stations as these can cover very large areas if there
is no other base in that area. They will cover much larger areas than GSM ever
can.

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2001\03\25@070130 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Typical cellular service availability - 90-95%, you can not
>rely on it in any safety-critical situations - use wired
>phones instead.

That up time is only if you are lucky. The problem in the UK with all the new
cellphones given for Christmas and then everyone trying to connect to the
network produced much outcry on the consumer complaints TV program. Even during
the average weekday connection problems abound.

Gee am I glad to be cellphone free:)

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2001\03\25@163937 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
> Good luck in court. The cell company may try and fail to deliver, but
> that's seen in a VERY different light than intentional jamming,
> especially when it's contribuitory to injury or death.

How about when the family of the deceased sue the man who was talking to
his girlfriend on the cellular in the hospital 3 meters from where their
beloved died because of misreading diagnosis instruments which led to
inappropriate medication dosage ?

There are places where you use phones and places where you don't. Period.

Peter

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