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'[EE]: Homemade antistatic spray'
2004\09\27@115626 by Lawrence Lile

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I lost two electronic devices last week, and I am fed up with it.  I get a pretty stiff carpet shock everytime I set foot in my office, and I think that is why my thumb drive failed.  I dread what will happen once I move my electronics bench in here.

I have seen a couple of recipes on the 'net for homemade antistatic spray:


Antistatic Spray
1/4 cup commercial liquid fabric softener
1/4 cup ammonia
2 cups water

Mix ingredients and store in a spray-type plastic bottle. Avoid spraying directly onto your computer terminal, keyboard, or central processing unit. Spray liberally everywhere else  on the rug, your shoes, chair, desktop or file cabinet.


Someone else suggested simple soap and water solution.  Eventually I will have them tear up that carpet in here, and replace with antistatic carpet or something, but I need to get an interim solution in place.  Any other suggestions?  


How would one go about making a cheap and dirty static charge meter?  




-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com

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2004\09\27@124104 by Dave VanHorn

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>
>Mix ingredients and store in a spray-type plastic bottle. Avoid spraying directly onto your computer terminal, keyboard, or central processing unit. Spray liberally everywhere else  on the rug, your shoes, chair, desktop or file cabinet.

What works here, even in dry winters, is unfinished wood desktops on wood cabinets, on wood floor.
Even in winter, very dry, no problems.


>Someone else suggested simple soap and water solution.  Eventually I will have them tear up that carpet in here, and replace with antistatic carpet or something, but I need to get an interim solution in place.  Any other suggestions?  
>
>
>How would one go about making a cheap and dirty static charge meter?  

An NE-2 lamp will light at >55V, and will discharge you down to that point.

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2004\09\27@131747 by Paul James E.

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Lawrence,

How about an electroscope with a whip antenna.  This wouldn't give an
absolute quantitive value, but would give an indication of static
electricity hanging around?   We used to make these in High School out
of a piece of stiff copper wire or piano wire, a couple of pieces of
gold leaf, and a flask and stopper from the chem lab.

Bend the wire to make a small hook on one end.

Poke the other end of the wire through the stopper and out the top.

Put a small hole in one end of the two small pieces of gold leaf.

Place the holes over the hook on the wire and let dangle freely.

Place the stopper holding the gold leaves into the flask mouth.

Bring something holding a static charge near the wire and the gold leaves
will spread apart due to the like charge on each.


Of course you could build a version of this feeding the input of an Fet
Input Op Amp as a buffer, the output of the buffer could be DC coupled to
a PIC AD input, and have the resulting voltage displayed on an LCD.
This would give you a numerical quantitive value to work with.

HAve fun.


                                       Regards,

                                         Jim


{Quote hidden}

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2004\09\27@131849 by Bob J

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Why not just get a small humidifier for your office?

Regards,
Bob

> I lost two electronic devices last week, and I am fed up with it.  I get a pretty stiff carpet shock everytime I set foot in my office, and I think that is why my thumb drive failed.  I dread what will happen once I move my electronics bench in here.
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2004\09\27@134701 by Support - KF4HAZ

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Or place a water can in front of the heater / or in the heating duct,
Just be sure to keep it clean and filled.

KF4HAZ - Lonnie

----- From: "Bob J" <rocketbob@

> Why not just get a small humidifier for your office?
>
> Regards,
> Bob
>
> > I lost two electronic devices last week, and I am fed up with it.  I get a pretty stiff carpet shock everytime I set foot in my office, and I think that is why my thumb drive failed.  I dread what will happen once I move my electronics bench in here.

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2004\09\27@140713 by Hazelwood Lyle

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>-----Original Message-----
>From: Lawrence Lile [spam_OUTllileTakeThisOuTspamprojsolco.com]
>Sent: Monday, September 27, 2004 11:52 AM
>To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
>Subject: [EE]: Homemade antistatic spray
>
>I lost two electronic devices last week, and I am fed up with it.  I get a
>pretty stiff carpet shock everytime I set foot in my office, and I think that
>is why my thumb drive failed.  I dread what will happen once I move my
>electronics bench in here.
>
>I have seen a couple of recipes on the 'net for homemade antistatic spray:
[snip]

Back when "Pac Man" was the hot machine in the arcades, the game would give
free credits for a good static zap on the coin door. Many fixes were tried,
but the most reliable method was 50/50 Downy fabric softener and water.
Downy has since been concentrated into "Ultra Downy", so the ratio must be
adjusted accordingly. As I recall, 1 part ultra downy to 8 parts water should
do the trick. We would treat the carpets with this monthly.

FWIW, I have no professional affiliation with either Midway Amusements or the
makers of Downy fabric softener. All trademarks are the property of their
respective owners. Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited by law.

Lyle

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2004\09\27@152934 by Peter L. Peres

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On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Lawrence Lile wrote:

> I have seen a couple of recipes on the 'net for homemade antistatic spray:
>
> Antistatic Spray
> 1/4 cup commercial liquid fabric softener
> 1/4 cup ammonia
> 2 cups water
>
> Mix ingredients and store in a spray-type plastic bottle. Avoid spraying
> directly onto your computer terminal, keyboard, or central processing
> unit. Spray liberally everywhere else on the rug, your shoes, chair,
> desktop or file cabinet.

It should work with just the fabric softener. Some have 'antistatic'
printed on them even. Mix with water and spray as above. I do not know why
they use ammonia. Maybe to prevent mildew.

> Someone else suggested simple soap and water solution.  Eventually I
> will have them tear up that carpet in here, and replace with antistatic
> carpet or something, but I need to get an interim solution in place.
> Any other suggestions?

Soap is not a good idea.

> How would one go about making a cheap and dirty static charge meter?

Tack a 2N7000 on a 9V battery clip with a led and a suitable limiter
resistor (depends on led). The gate lead is the sensor. You can use a wire
up to 5cm long (very sensitive). A reset button is useful. This is a spst
button that connects the gate to a divider set such that the led lights
dimly when pushing it. Then the device will sense fields of both
polarities. This device senses a small plastic comb that you passed
through your hair once from almost 1 meter. There are more schemes like
this on the internet.

Peter
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2004\09\27@161052 by Richard.Prosser

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But be careful.
I used to work for a firm (American, starts with the letter M) in the UK
that had a guy come in and spray the carpets on a fortnightly basis. Then
he went on holiday and one of the engineers decided to do a "really good
job" of it so it would be OK until the "normal" guy got back.

Next morning all the carpets had shrunk in about 6" from the wall.

RP





Back when "Pac Man" was the hot machine in the arcades, the game would give
free credits for a good static zap on the coin door. Many fixes were tried,
but the most reliable method was 50/50 Downy fabric softener and water.
Downy has since been concentrated into "Ultra Downy", so the ratio must be
adjusted accordingly. As I recall, 1 part ultra downy to 8 parts water
should
do the trick. We would treat the carpets with this monthly.






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2004\09\28@041340 by Alan B. Pearce

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>Why not just get a small humidifier for your office?

Even some large potted plants help with this if needed, and probably have
lower running costs, as well as being quieter and more attractive :))

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2004\09\28@123831 by Lawrence Lile

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I made up a liter of downy/ammonia/water slop.  It stinks!  Why must they put nasty perfumes in everything?  You can get "Spring Breeze" scent, which smells like a French bordello, or "Autumn mist" scent, which smells like a Chinese bordello, or "Fru Fru Wildflower" scent, which smells like a Nevada bordello, but you cannot get "UNSCENTED" which smells like some chemical slop, which is what it is, and won't set off people's allergies.

-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com

> {Original Message removed}

2004\09\28@125221 by John J. McDonough

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Lile" <.....llileKILLspamspam@spam@projsolco.com>
Subject: RE: [EE]: Homemade antistatic spray


> You can get "Spring Breeze" scent, which smells like a
> French bordello, or "Autumn mist" scent, which smells
> like a Chinese bordello, or "Fru Fru Wildflower" scent,
> which smells like a Nevada bordello,

One has to admire someone with such diverse experience!

--McD


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2004\09\28@130227 by Dave VanHorn

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At 11:52 AM 9/28/2004, John J. McDonough wrote:

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Lawrence Lile" <llilespamKILLspamprojsolco.com>
>Subject: RE: [EE]: Homemade antistatic spray
>
>
>> You can get "Spring Breeze" scent, which smells like a
>> French bordello, or "Autumn mist" scent, which smells
>> like a Chinese bordello, or "Fru Fru Wildflower" scent,
>> which smells like a Nevada bordello,
>
>One has to admire someone with such diverse experience!

Only if he can successfully expense it as R/D ! :)

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2004\09\28@130736 by Marcel Duchamp

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At 09:33 AM 9/28/04, you wrote:
>I made up a liter of downy/ammonia/water slop.  It stinks!  Why must they
>put nasty perfumes in everything?  You can get "Spring Breeze" scent,
>which smells like a French bordello, or "Autumn mist" scent, which smells
>like a Chinese bordello, or "Fru Fru Wildflower" scent, which smells like
>a Nevada bordello, but you cannot get "UNSCENTED" which smells like some
>chemical slop, which is what it is, and won't set off people's allergies.
>
>-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.

Note to self: if we ever require inside information about various worldwide
bordellos, remember to consult with Mr. Lile.  He seems to have
considerable experience in this area...
;>
MD

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2004\09\28@145038 by Bob Ammerman

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>I made up a liter of downy/ammonia/water slop.  It stinks!  Why must they
>put nasty perfumes in everything?  You can get "Spring Breeze" scent, which
>smells like a French bordello, or "Autumn mist" scent, which smells like a
>Chinese bordello, or "Fru Fru Wildflower" scent, which smells like a Nevada
>bordello, but you cannot get "UNSCENTED" which smells like some chemical
>slop, which is what it is, and won't set off people's allergies.
>
> -- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
> Electrical and Electronic Solutions
> Project Solutions Companies
> http://www.projsolco.com
>

Do you have personal experience with all those types of bordellos? ;)

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

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2004\09\28@150254 by D. Jay Newman

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> I made up a liter of downy/ammonia/water slop.  It stinks!  Why must they put nasty perfumes in everything?  You can get "Spring Breeze" scent, which smells like a French bordello, or "Autumn mist" scent, which smells like a Chinese bordello, or "Fru Fru Wildflower" scent, which smells like a Nevada bordello, but you cannot get "UNSCENTED" which smells like some chemical slop, which is what it is, and won't set off people's allergies.

LOL!

On the other hand, how do you come to know the scents of so many kinds
of bordellos?  :)
--
D. Jay Newman           ! DCX - it takes off and lands base down,
.....jayKILLspamspam.....sprucegrove.com     !       as God and Robert Heinlein intended.
http://enerd.ws/robots/ !
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2004\09\28@152050 by Bob Blick

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> ... bordello, but you cannot get "UNSCENTED" which smells like some
> chemical slop, which is what it is, and won't set off people's allergies.

Not really unscented, it smells like a robot bordello, just ask Bender...

-Bob


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2004\09\28@160847 by Richard.Prosser

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There's nothing like a man with a wide experience in life Lawrence :-)
Maybe you were in the Navy.

RP





I made up a liter of downy/ammonia/water slop.  It stinks!  Why must they
put nasty perfumes in everything?  You can get "Spring Breeze" scent, which
smells like a French bordello, or "Autumn mist" scent, which smells like a
Chinese bordello, or "Fru Fru Wildflower" scent, which smells like a Nevada
bordello, but you cannot get "UNSCENTED" which smells like some chemical
slop, which is what it is, and won't set off people's allergies.

-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.





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2004\09\28@173940 by Lawrence Lile

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Full Disclosure:  I do not know how the inside of any Bordello on any continent smells.  On the other hand, I have a stuffy nose most of the time due to allergies....

-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com
> {Original Message removed}

2004\09\28@174841 by Lawrence Lile

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>Bordellos...
>Lile's personal habits and wide experience....
>etc etc ...

[Ahem!]  back to the subject at hand, I got a quote from a local tile company for antistatic Vinyl Composition Tile for $4.64 a square foot.  OUCH!  

Russell mentioned a cheap butyl rubber antistatic substance (no jokes please) however, I can't access the PICLIST archives today because of some javascript error.  Russell, can you provide that reference again please?


(ROFLMAO)

-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com

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2004\09\28@175837 by Dave VanHorn

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At 04:44 PM 9/28/2004, Lawrence Lile wrote:

>>Bordellos...
>>Lile's personal habits and wide experience....
>>etc etc ...
>
>[Ahem!]  back to the subject at hand, I got a quote from a local tile company for antistatic Vinyl Composition Tile for $4.64 a square foot.  OUCH!  
>
>Russell mentioned a cheap butyl rubber antistatic substance (no jokes please) however, I can't access the PICLIST archives today because of some javascript error.  Russell, can you provide that reference again please?

I got a sheet like this at a gun show.
I can't measure any resistance, but neither do I measure any static on it, when I ground it with an alligator clip.  It wouldn't work for flooring, but it's good for benchtop.

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2004\09\28@180936 by John Ferrell

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It is also dependent upon whether the experience was gained as a client or
service provider...
--- the devil made me say it!!

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\09\29@083007 by Lawrence Lile

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I know a fireman who has been in several of these houses of ill repute, by his own report.  But he claims they were all on fire when he was there.  


-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com

> {Original Message removed}

2004\09\29@091147 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I know a fireman who has been in several of these
>houses of ill repute, by his own report.  But he
>claims they were all on fire when he was there.  

Well it sounds like things were smoking along then :))))
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2004\09\29@140205 by Dave VanHorn

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At 07:25 AM 9/29/2004, Lawrence Lile wrote:

>I know a fireman who has been in several of these houses of ill repute, by his own report.  But he claims they were all on fire when he was there.  

Braggart! :)

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2004\09\29@163154 by hilip Stortz

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actually, you can use just dish soap or laundry soap, preferably
unscented.  using this in a spray bottle works very well, you only need
a couple of drops (maybe a teaspoon full in 12 oz of water).  it's dirt
cheap and you can completely get rid of the perfumes that so many
companies insist on adding to their products.  i have bad allergies and
have done this very successfully on both carpets and plastic bench tops
that had a ton of static on the plastic before treatment.  i'm in a very
dry area (wyoming) so static is sometimes a very real concern, but so
are my allergies.

EraseMERichard.Prosserspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTpowerware.com wrote:
>
> There's nothing like a man with a wide experience in life Lawrence :-)
> Maybe you were in the Navy.
>
> RP
>
> I made up a liter of downy/ammonia/water slop.  It stinks!  Why must they
> put nasty perfumes in everything?  You can get "Spring Breeze" scent, which
> smells like a French bordello, or "Autumn mist" scent, which smells like a
-----

-- Philip Stortz--"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I
didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a
Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
-- Martin Niemöller, 1892-1984 (German Lutheran Pastor), on the Nazi
Holocaust, Congressional Record 14th October 1968 p31636.


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2004\09\29@190021 by Lawrence Lile

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Thanks, Philip.
I tried the Downy Fabric Softener glop, spraying the carpet before leaving one night.  The next day the perfume was dissipated, but there is still a lingering smell like a Chinese laundry (a building I have actually been in, BTW).
It leaves a slick residue on plastic surfaces.  I would say the results of the experiment are generally nonideal.  
I can report no perceptible carpet shocks today, which of course means absolutely nothing.  Having no static meter, I can't give a quantitative report.



-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com

> {Original Message removed}

2004\09\30@021401 by hilip Stortz

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really any detergent will do.  the trick is to make it very dilute in
most cases.  you don't need much, just the thinnest film here and there.
i believe the detergent residue tends to hold moisture, and the ionic
surfactants etc. are then conductive, but only a little bit as it's a
thin film but plenty at higher voltages like static.  for the InGAs
stuff that blows at 40V or less, you probably need a lot more (i heard
hp actually has people wearing gold plate bracelets when they handle
those parts, they are incredibly fragile, or at least they were the last
time i heard, hopefully they've improved).  a teaspoon in 12 oz is
probably actually a lot more than you need.  
odd odors etc. are probably best avoided by using the cheaper brands
(that's what i have to do with shampoo because of allergies, i'm
allergic to the detergent they ALL use, but the cheaper ones rinse out
better and well enough to be ok), as they tend to have fewer misc.
additives for whatever odd thing the additive is supposed to add to the
product.  
when i used just diluted laundry detergent and a little rubbing alcohol
(to wet plastic better, i think that's why i used it) on a large pvc
surface there was no visible or tactile film, downy may not be the best
thing for this as it's also a softener and it wouldn't surprise me if it
had some skin oils or similar ingredients along with the scent and
whatever it needed to work in that environment.  anything designed to
survive a hot dryer would have to be fairly oily and tacky to stay on
i'd think, and that may be the problem (remember, detergents rinse out
fairly easily, fabric softeners aren't supposed to rinse easily).  i'm
sure a dilute salt solution would work very well, other than being
corrosive and possibly attracting too much moisture, these are probably
the advantages of the detergents that are ionic but not as soluble or desiccating.

Lawrence Lile wrote:
-----
> It leaves a slick residue on plastic surfaces.  I would say the results of the experiment are generally nonideal.
------

-- Philip Stortz--"In Germany they came first for the Communists, and I
didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a
Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I
wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn't speak up because I was a
Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time no one was left to speak up."
-- Martin Niemöller, 1892-1984 (German Lutheran Pastor), on the Nazi
Holocaust, Congressional Record 14th October 1968 p31636.

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2004\09\30@091858 by Lawrence Lile

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I think maybe I used too high a concentration of Downy.  Will try again with a detergent sludge.  I really need to get some kind of crude electrostatic meter and measure the results here.  Or just quit whining and buy a bottle of staticide.
After two days the Chinese laundry smell has died down, as has the slickness.  
> odd odors etc. are probably best avoided by using the cheaper brands
> (that's what i have to do with shampoo because of allergies, i'm
> allergic to the detergent they ALL use, but the cheaper ones rinse out
> better and well enough to be ok), as they tend to have fewer misc.
> additives for whatever odd thing the additive is supposed to add to the
> product.

I go to a health food store and buy brands of detergent, clothes washing powder and soap without perfumes.  The old hippies that hang out at such stores have not made much of a market for fabric softeners, since hair shirts do not want any softening <GRIN> so there are no fabric softeners available without perfume additives AFAIK.  The prices seemed high, until you do the math, and find out that these brands accomplish with 50mL what store brand detergents accomplish with 250mL.  Store brand detergents are mostly not detergent, even the so-called concentrated kinds.
I have had really bad reactions to many perfumes.  One time I bought some upholstery cleaner for a chair, and ended up throwing the item out because it stank so bad and I had such asthma reactions to it.  So much for upholstery cleaner - the thing was toxic when I was done using the stuff.  
Surely you have tried Dr. Bronner's soap?  If you can get past the religious dogma that is plastered over every bottle, which I think is a hoot, it is great stuff.  It does have a strong scent, usually some oil like peppermint, but never has seemed to set off my allergies like fake chemical flower stink always does.  



-- Lawrence Lile, P.E.
Electrical and Electronic Solutions
Project Solutions Companies
http://www.projsolco.com

> {Original Message removed}

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