Post by thread:[EE]: Feasibility of circuit boards

I am planning to use a photo etch kit to make some boards. How difficult is it to make a double sided board. Is the cost of a "boarding house" worth it? Are there any guides out there on design? In addition, how can I create "thru-plating" for use on double sided boards? Anthony Clay spam_OUTzarthragTakeThisOuTintcon.net http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Anthony Clay wrote: > I am planning to use a photo etch kit to make some boards. How difficult is it to make a double sided board. Is the cost of a "boarding house" worth it? Are there any guides out there on design? In addition, how can I create "thru-plating" for use on double sided boards? > > Anthony Clay > .....zarthragKILLspam@spam@intcon.net Hi - I've made a number with the Toner Transfer paper etc. - I just put targets outside the board area and use strong light to line those up (i.e. an "x" on the solder side and a "+" on the component side, line them up then slip the PCB in between them - easier with photo method! A laser can help here.) - I then use little wire-wrap wires to cross-connect, instead of plated-through holes. I find it fairly easy - some'd get pretty frustrated, it does take some time. Board houses cost some real money, for boards where it'll probably change 8-10 times before getting done it's just a lot cheaper to make your own. Figure $120ish at least for most board shop boards, pcb-pool looks cheaper (Don't know if their pricing is Deutchmarks, Euros, Pounds, ??? but worst case about $76 USD for one small board?) Ow, though - just estimated 125 of one tiny board I make on their web site, Eur. 398.00 = $375 USD i.e. $3 per board for an 10mm x 8mm little tiny board? Seems harsh, guess the routing adds up! <G> Drilling holes can be a pain if you don't have the proper tools, if all you have is a pin vise for drilling, expect to take a while! If you do proto's at home, think of ways to avoid through holes (i.e. put filled areas on the board's edge and solder an LED etc. on as if 'twere surface mount, that sort of thing.) A drill press is a good thing. Mark -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Sun, 2 Jul 2000 15:52:19 -0700, you wrote: >I am planning to use a photo etch kit to make some boards. How difficult is it to make a double sided board. Is the cost of a "boarding house" worth it? Are there any guides out there on design? In addition, how can I create "thru-plating" for use on double sided boards? > It can be done relatively easily if you only need a few PTH holes, i.e. where you cant use linking pins or top-solder components - using Multicore's copperset system - info on this and other PCB-making stuff at http://www.netcomuk.co.uk/~wwl/pcbs.html -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

If this is a one off board but is complex in design and important, I would pay the $50 bucks or so to have it professionally made. The time savings might be worth it alone. If it is for a hobby project and easy or moderately complex then I would build it at home and in a lot of cases you don't need plated through holes. ICs (and sockets) that have pin connections only on the top layer can have elongated PCB pads and the pins are bent at right angles and soldered easily. ICs that have pin connections on both layers can be soldered both sides as can most components. Parts that can't easily be soldered both sides, like IC sockets, can still be mounted ok. One method is to add an extra pad adjacent to the pins and use this as the tru hole connection with a 'link' of tinned wire. Another method is to use machined pin IC sockets. Knock the pins out, place them in the PCB holes and solder both sides. Makes a neat socket. Via's are just tinned wired soldered both sides. -- Best regards Tony http://www.picnpoke.com salesKILLspampicnpoke.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

If this is a one off board but is complex in design and important, I would pay the $50 bucks or so to have it professionally made. The time savings might be worth it alone. If it is for a hobby project and easy or moderately complex then I would build it at home and in a lot of cases you don't need plated through holes. ICs (and sockets) that have pin connections only on the top layer can have elongated PCB pads and the pins are bent at right angles and soldered easily. ICs that have pin connections on both layers can be soldered both sides as can most components. Parts that can't easily be soldered both sides, like IC sockets, can still be mounted ok. One method is to add an extra pad adjacent to the pins and use this as the tru hole connection with a 'link' of tinned wire. Another method is to use machined pin IC sockets. Knock the pins out, place them in the PCB holes and solder both sides. Makes a neat socket. Via's are just tinned wired soldered both sides. -- Best regards Tony http://www.picnpoke.com .....salesKILLspam.....picnpoke.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

{Quote hidden}> -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Nixon [SMTP:EraseMETony.Nixonspam_OUTTakeThisOuTENG.MONASH.EDU.AU] > Sent: Tuesday, 4 July 2000 10:00 > To: PICLISTspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [EE]: Feasibility of circuit boards > > If this is a one off board but is complex in design and important, I > would pay the $50 bucks or so to have it professionally made. The time > savings might be worth it alone. > > If it is for a hobby project and easy or moderately complex then I would > build it at home and in a lot of cases you don't need plated through > holes. > > ICs (and sockets) that have pin connections only on the top layer can > have elongated PCB pads and the pins are bent at right angles and > soldered easily. > > ICs that have pin connections on both layers can be soldered both sides > as can most components. > > Parts that can't easily be soldered both sides, like IC sockets, can > still be mounted ok. One method is to add an extra pad adjacent to the > pins and use this as the tru hole connection with a 'link' of tinned > wire. Another method is to use machined pin IC sockets. Knock the pins > out, place them in the PCB holes and solder both sides. Makes a neat > socket. > > Via's are just tinned wired soldered both sides. > > Try to make that type of PCB on a real package and it can not be done. Most will not alow you to add extras like pads without causing great pain, upto the point of where you being to wonder if it is really worth the effort. Just be warned, not as easy as it sounds (Tony is still quite correct, and it does work) Dennis {Quote hidden}> -- > Best regards > > Tony > > http://www.picnpoke.com > @spam@salesKILLspampicnpoke.com > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

{Quote hidden}> -----Original Message----- > From: Tony Nixon [SMTP:KILLspamTony.NixonKILLspamENG.MONASH.EDU.AU] > Sent: Tuesday, 4 July 2000 10:00 > To: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [EE]: Feasibility of circuit boards > > If this is a one off board but is complex in design and important, I > would pay the $50 bucks or so to have it professionally made. The time > savings might be worth it alone. > > If it is for a hobby project and easy or moderately complex then I would > build it at home and in a lot of cases you don't need plated through > holes. > > ICs (and sockets) that have pin connections only on the top layer can > have elongated PCB pads and the pins are bent at right angles and > soldered easily. > > ICs that have pin connections on both layers can be soldered both sides > as can most components. > > Parts that can't easily be soldered both sides, like IC sockets, can > still be mounted ok. One method is to add an extra pad adjacent to the > pins and use this as the tru hole connection with a 'link' of tinned > wire. Another method is to use machined pin IC sockets. Knock the pins > out, place them in the PCB holes and solder both sides. Makes a neat > socket. > > Via's are just tinned wired soldered both sides. > > Try to make that type of PCB on a real package and it can not be done. Most will not alow you to add extras like pads without causing great pain, upto the point of where you being to wonder if it is really worth the effort. Just be warned, not as easy as it sounds (Tony is still quite correct, and it does work) Dennis {Quote hidden}> -- > Best regards > > Tony > > http://www.picnpoke.com > spamBeGonesalesspamBeGonepicnpoke.com > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

"Plunkett, Dennis" wrote: > Try to make that type of PCB on a real package and it can not be > done. Most will not alow you to add extras like pads without causing great > pain, upto the point of where you being to wonder if it is really worth the > effort. > Just be warned, not as easy as it sounds (Tony is still quite > correct, and it does work) That's the reason I keep using a fairly early Windows version of Protel. The PCB makers can still use the files, and I can still tell IT what to do :-) -- Best regards Tony http://www.picnpoke.com TakeThisOuTsalesEraseMEspam_OUTpicnpoke.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

"Plunkett, Dennis" wrote: > Try to make that type of PCB on a real package and it can not be > done. Most will not alow you to add extras like pads without causing great > pain, upto the point of where you being to wonder if it is really worth the > effort. > Just be warned, not as easy as it sounds (Tony is still quite > correct, and it does work) That's the reason I keep using a fairly early Windows version of Protel. The PCB makers can still use the files, and I can still tell IT what to do :-) -- Best regards Tony http://www.picnpoke.com RemoveMEsalesTakeThisOuTpicnpoke.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

> "Plunkett, Dennis" wrote: > > > Try to make that type of PCB on a real package and it can not be > > done. Most will not alow you to add extras like pads without causing great > > pain, upto the point of where you being to wonder if it is really worth the > > effort. > > Just be warned, not as easy as it sounds (Tony is still quite > > correct, and it does work) > > That's the reason I keep using a fairly early Windows version of Protel. > The PCB makers can still use the files, and I can still tell IT what to > do :-) > > -- > Best regards > > Tony I agree 100%, I do exactly the same thing.( although I import the old Protel layout into the the new package and re-save... it can do that still) Protel has been driving me nuts with each new release, just as I get the hang of the new obscure commands, out comes a completely different way of doing it. The DOS version was great, all has gone down hill from there with both schematic (except for higher resolution and multiple windows) and PCB aimed at super duper huge integrated PCB, simulator etc. Pity changing pad size sucks now, or power connections in schematic are a single command, no choice except to set up a new definition for each type (aaaggghhhh). I was under the silly impression as computers became more powerful, software became smarter and are computer based tasks should become easier. Protel and MS Access are dangerous to ones mental health me thinks. _____________________________ Lance Allen Technical Officer Uni of Auckland Psych Dept New Zealand http://www.psych.auckland.ac.nz _____________________________ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Lance Allen wrote: ..... >I was under the silly impression as computers became more >powerful, software became smarter and are computer based tasks >should become easier. ........ > Speaking of famous last words, Ted Nelson [some old dodderer, in case you never heard of him] said about 30 years ago: "As we take the gee-whiz out of all these processes, and simply accept that work in the future will be at screens, terminology should get a lot simpler and more straightforward". [now, let's see, how *many* false premises can we count in this short sentence?]. - DanM -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseME.....mitvma.mit.edu>

Randy Glenn wrote: >There are some methods using eyelets and such, where you put a piece of >metal tubing in the hole, and press around the edges to keep it in. Look at >http://www.dynaart.com for some details. > A possible, but *really* expensive method, is to press/solder Mill-Max pin receptacles into the holes, but at 10 cents or so a pin,you might just wanna send your Gerber files to apcircuits. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.