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PICList Thread
'[EE]: Decapsulation'
2001\07\11@183907 by Carl Bulger

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When decapsulating a PIC, why is Hot Fuming Nitric acid used instead of just
Hot Nitric acid?

Does heated Fuming Nitric react with the encapsulation packaging in some way
that heated Nitric does not? I'm just confused at to the mechanics of the
decapsulation.

Carl...

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2001\07\12@090605 by Olin Lathrop

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> When decapsulating a PIC, why is Hot Fuming Nitric acid used instead of
just
> Hot Nitric acid?

It's hard to imagine a legitimate reason for doing this.  Perhaps you could
provide one so that people don't feel they are helping you do something they
would dissapprove of?


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, spam_OUTolinTakeThisOuTspamembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\07\12@130358 by Carl Bulger

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I have just begun research into security in modern microcontrollers. The
question below is one that remains unanswered to me.


{Original Message removed}

2001\07\12@132029 by Marcelo Yamamoto

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I do not know about the PICs, but...
Some weeks ago I had a problem in a PowerMosfet from Philips and after I
sent some units for evaluation they replied with some nice pictures of the
die they decapped using HNO3:H2SO4 at 85ºC and the explanation of the
problem and the causes.

Marcelo Y.

Olin Lathrop wrote:
> > When decapsulating a PIC, why is Hot Fuming Nitric acid used instead of
> > just Hot Nitric acid?
> It's hard to imagine a legitimate reason for doing this.  Perhaps you
> could provide one so that people don't feel they are helping you do
something
> they would dissapprove of?

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2001\07\12@144215 by PHYLLIS GUERRA
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OLIN,
YOU MUST BE GOD BECAUSE YOU JUDGE EVERYONE.
WHY DON'T YOU LOOK IN THE MIRROR ??

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2001\07\12@164239 by Mike Mansheim

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> OLIN,
> YOU MUST BE GOD BECAUSE YOU JUDGE EVERYONE.
> WHY DON'T YOU LOOK IN THE MIRROR ??

I thought his response was reasonable - it should raise a flag
anytime someone is asking about things that might have to do
with getting around code protection.
Failure analysis would be one reason for decapsulation, but
no reasons were given - I don't see a problem with asking
that the original poster elaborate on what they are doing.

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2001\07\12@170544 by Dale Botkin

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On Thu, 12 Jul 2001, PHYLLIS GUERRA wrote:

8< snip...

I saw nothing wrong with Olin's response, I thought it was reasonable and
showed some restraint as well.  That sort of question *always* provokes a
similar response on the list.

Folks, again, if you're going to flame someone, do it off the list.  There
is NO REASON to share your personal disagreement with someone among 2000+
people.

Let's drop it now, shall we?  Thanks.

Dale
--
A train stops at a train station.  A bus stops at a bus station.
On my desk I have a workstation...

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2001\07\12@170816 by Douglas Butler

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In a field as full of piracy as ours, a little skepticism is healthy.

Sherpa Doug

{Quote hidden}

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2001\07\12@224716 by PHYLLIS GUERRA

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MIKE,
I THINK YOU FEEL LIKE MANY PEOPLE ON THE LIST.
THERE ARE MANY REASONS WHY PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS.
LETS BE OPEN MINED AND NOT JUDGE PEOPLE !

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2001\07\12@225145 by PHYLLIS GUERRA

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DALE,
DO YOU ALWAYS JUDGE PEOPLE ON WHAT THEY SAY ??
YOU HAVE TO TALK TO PEOPLE TO FIND OUT WHAT
THEY REALLY WANT/NEED

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2001\07\12@225353 by PHYLLIS GUERRA

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DOUGLAS,
HAVE AN OPEN MIND!!!!

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2001\07\12@230241 by David VanHorn

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At 09:52 PM 7/12/01 -0500, PHYLLIS GUERRA wrote:
>DOUGLAS,
>HAVE AN OPEN MIND!!!!

IS THERE ANY PARTICULAR REASON YOU HAVE TO SHOUT?
Just wondering.
--
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I would have a link to http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?KC6ETE-9 here
in my signature line, but due to the inability of sysadmins at TELOCITY to
differentiate a signature line from the text of an email, I am forbidden to
have it.

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2001\07\12@233033 by PHYLLIS GUERRA

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YES,
I HAVE VERY BAD EYES.....

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2001\07\12@233430 by PHYLLIS GUERRA

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ALSO,
JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE USES CAPS DOES
NOT MEAN THEY ARE SHOUTING. THIS IS VERY OLD SCHOOL...

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2001\07\13@001102 by David Duffy

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At 09:50 PM 12/07/01 -0500, you wrote:
>DALE,
>DO YOU ALWAYS JUDGE PEOPLE ON WHAT THEY SAY ??
>YOU HAVE TO TALK TO PEOPLE TO FIND OUT WHAT
>THEY REALLY WANT/NEED

TURNYOURCAPSLOCKOFFPLEASE!
Seriously, Olin's request for more info was justified.
The original post probably should have specified the reason.
Regards...

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2001\07\13@014944 by PHYLLIS GUERRA

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DAVID DUFFY,
OLIN'S REPLY WAS NOT JUSTIFIED.........
ONE SHOULD NOT PREJUDGE........
HAVE AN OPEN MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!

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2001\07\13@021309 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 12:32 AM 7/13/01 -0500, you wrote:
>DAVID DUFFY,
>OLIN'S REPLY WAS NOT JUSTIFIED.........
>ONE SHOULD NOT PREJUDGE........
>HAVE AN OPEN MIND!!!!!!!!!!!!

Suppose you are a person with some knowledge of locksmithing,
and a scruffy looking man comes up to you on the street and
asks for your help in getting into a locked Mercedes with a
fur coat on the front seat-- would you prejudge him, or would
you unconditionally offer your assistance? Or might you ask
what explanation he has for what really is starting to look
a lot like a soon-to-be crime scene?

Best regards,
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Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
.....speffKILLspamspam.....interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
Contributions invited->The AVR-gcc FAQ is at: http://www.bluecollarlinux.com
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

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2001\07\13@040215 by Peter L. Peres

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> OLIN,
> YOU MUST BE GOD BECAUSE YOU JUDGE EVERYONE.
> WHY DON'T YOU LOOK IN THE MIRROR ??

That's an easy one. He's afraid it would break if he looked.

Peter

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2001\07\13@040238 by Peter L. Peres

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> die they decapped using HNO3:H2SO4 at 85=BAC and the explanation

Just be careful not to put anything with cellulose into HNO3+H2SO4, like
paper towels, cotton swabs, etc. Also most plastic containers won't like
this. They could change into something else in the process (hint: don't
drop or expose to shocks).

Peter

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2001\07\13@045550 by J.Feldhaar

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PHYLLIS GUERRA schrieb:

> LETS BE OPEN MINED

hehehe - maybe this typo was intentional...;-)

Jochen Feldhaar DH6FAZ

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>
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2001\07\13@084503 by Bob Ammerman

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I am going to jump in here before James does:

No Ad Hominems!!!

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

{Original Message removed}

2001\07\13@144533 by Scott M. Thomas

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Olin should have stopped with the question of "why".  The problem arose when
he implied that something illegal might be taking place.

{Original Message removed}

2001\07\13@144548 by Scott M. Thomas

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One that still applies to emails.

-----Original Message-----
From: PHYLLIS GUERRA [EraseMEphyllg8spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTCHARTER.NET]
Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 11:32 PM
To: PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [EE]: Decapsulation


ALSO,
JUST BECAUSE SOMEONE USES CAPS DOES
NOT MEAN THEY ARE SHOUTING. THIS IS VERY OLD SCHOOL...

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2001\07\16@092359 by Lawrence Lile

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Sounds like great stuff to NOT mess with....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter L. Peres" <@spam@plpKILLspamspamACTCOM.CO.IL>
To: <KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 12:51 AM
Subject: [EE]: Decapsulation


{Quote hidden}

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