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'[EE]: Cycling power remotely on an ATX PC'
2002\06\19@120520 by Jim Main

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I have an application at a remote site where I send data over a WAN to a PC,
which then talks to a PIC interface controlling various bits of equipment.

Since PC's occasionally crash, I've put in a telephone-operated switch on
the power feed to the PC.

Problem is, I've just realised that cycling the power in this way means the
PC won't boot up (since the front power button needs to be cycled after a
mains reset).

Any suggestions?

I'm thinking maybe of another pic that delays a bit then closes a relay
contact across the power jumper on the motherboard....

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2002\06\19@121625 by Brendan Moran

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Hi,

You do mean ATX, not AT right? as in there being only one double row
connector, rather than two single rown connectors, right?

If I remember correctly, and I like to think that I do, all you have to do
is short the green wire to the blak wire.  Should be doable with a power
transistor (or maybe even a signal transistor) to turn ON the power supply.

So, what you need to do is break the connection that that green wire makes.
A relay would work for that.  Also remember that the purple wire is a source
of +5V even when the power supply is "off" (when the green wire is floating)
so you can power your PIC control circuit from that.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Brendan

{Original Message removed}

2002\06\19@122833 by Eoin Ross

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There may be a setting in your BIOS to make the PC boot when power comes back on which would makes things a whole lot easier.

{Original Message removed}

2002\06\19@122847 by Joe Farr

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My machine has a BIOS setting for wake after power fail


-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Main [.....jim.mainKILLspamspam@spam@MAINTECH.CO.UK]
Sent: 19 June 2002 17:05
To: PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [EE]: Cycling power remotely on an ATX PC


I have an application at a remote site where I send data over a WAN to a PC,
which then talks to a PIC interface controlling various bits of equipment.

Since PC's occasionally crash, I've put in a telephone-operated switch on
the power feed to the PC.

Problem is, I've just realised that cycling the power in this way means the
PC won't boot up (since the front power button needs to be cycled after a
mains reset).

Any suggestions?

I'm thinking maybe of another pic that delays a bit then closes a relay
contact across the power jumper on the motherboard....

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2002\06\19@125655 by Jim Main

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Had a look at the BIOS - no options for wake on power up unfortunately..

This sounds good though - thanks Brendan.  I was thinking I'd have to power
the pic from an external psu, but if I can grab power off the header then
that simplifies things.

> So, what you need to do is break the connection that that green wire
makes.
> A relay would work for that.  Also remember that the purple wire is a
source
> of +5V even when the power supply is "off" (when the green wire is
floating)
> so you can power your PIC control circuit from that.
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> Regards,
>
> Brendan
>
> {Original Message removed}

2002\06\19@130910 by Brendan Moran

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part 1 951 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)

While I have verified that I did have those colours right, here's a site
that should help:
http://www.compute-aid.com/atxspec.html
and one of the images on this page provides a colour-pin number cross
reference:
www.xlr8yourmac.com/systems/ATX_G4_AGP_conversion/G4_AGP_to_ATX_case_
pg2.htm
(I admit I find it funny that a *mac* site has a lot of info on *ATX* power
connectors...)
I've attached the relevant image.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Main" <jim.mainspamspam_OUTMAINTECH.CO.UK>
To: <@spam@PICLISTKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Cycling power remotely on an ATX PC


> Had a look at the BIOS - no options for wake on power up unfortunately..
>
> This sounds good though - thanks Brendan.  I was thinking I'd have to
power
> the pic from an external psu, but if I can grab power off the header then
> that simplifies things.



part 2 15324 bytes content-type:image/gif; (decode)


part 3 136 bytes
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2002\06\19@131535 by Herbert Graf

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Most motherboards have a "On restore power" setting, if you set that to
"power on" it will power up after a power failure (which is what you are
doing). If that setting isn't present there is another easy way, connect the
power switch to the  circuitry that toggles the power with some sort of a
delay, if you are using a pic for this then it is easy to do. How are you
controlling it over the phone line? Thanks, TTYL

> {Original Message removed}

2002\06\19@131947 by Brendan Moran

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When  I recieved the message I just sent, I noticed that the address for
that mac page was wrapped.  If you just click on it, you will not get the
right page.

Oh, yeah, there's another nifty feature you could add: you could make it so
that your PIC can monitor the power supply's state, using the PG or Power
Good pin.

Brendan

{Original Message removed}

2002\06\19@132402 by Olin Lathrop

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> Problem is, I've just realised that cycling the power in this way means
the
> PC won't boot up (since the front power button needs to be cycled after a
> mains reset).
>
> Any suggestions?

Check the bios settings.  Many bios' give you a choice of what the machine
should do when power is applied.  On some mother boards, this is a jumper
instead of a bios setting.  On some other mother boards you're screwed,
although that is the minority.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

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2002\06\19@133108 by Jim Main

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You've got me wondering now whether pin 9 and pin 14 of the header get
extended through to the 2 pin header for the power on/off switch.

I could take those two pins + a ground and power the pic and control the
on/off, all without cutting into the psu wires.

Going to take a meter out and check this...  thanks
{Original Message removed}

2002\06\19@134706 by Brendan Moran

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Main" <spamBeGonejim.mainspamBeGonespamMAINTECH.CO.UK>
To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 10:29 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Cycling power remotely on an ATX PC


> You've got me wondering now whether pin 9 and pin 14 of the header get
> extended through to the 2 pin header for the power on/off switch.
>
> I could take those two pins + a ground and power the pic and control the
> on/off, all without cutting into the psu wires.
>
> Going to take a meter out and check this...  thanks

Hold on with that meter!
Remember I said that you have to short pin 14 to GND to turn on the supply.
And think about how all the computers have a 5-second delay that you have to
hold hte button down for to turn off hte PC.  That implies control logic
between the power button and the actual control.

Why don't you just extend the reset button's wires, and parasite off of pin
9, and a GND line, then connect the two reset lines together (MOSFET?) when
you get the call?

Brendan

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2002\06\19@140801 by Jim Main

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Point taken.  Ok, that seems to be the way to go.

jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brendan Moran" <annirakEraseMEspam.....BIGFOOT.COM>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 6:48 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Cycling power remotely on an ATX PC


{Quote hidden}

supply.
> And think about how all the computers have a 5-second delay that you have
to
> hold hte button down for to turn off hte PC.  That implies control logic
> between the power button and the actual control.
>
> Why don't you just extend the reset button's wires, and parasite off of
pin
> 9, and a GND line, then connect the two reset lines together (MOSFET?)
when
{Quote hidden}

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2002\06\19@142046 by Mark J. Dulcey

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Jim Main wrote:
> I have an application at a remote site where I send data over a WAN to a PC,
> which then talks to a PIC interface controlling various bits of equipment.
>
> Since PC's occasionally crash, I've put in a telephone-operated switch on
> the power feed to the PC.
>
> Problem is, I've just realised that cycling the power in this way means the
> PC won't boot up (since the front power button needs to be cycled after a
> mains reset).
>
> Any suggestions?

Check the BIOS settings on the system. Many ATX computers can be
configured so that they will come right up at power-on, rather than
waiting for a push of the button. It's obviously necessary in a server
room...

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2002\06\19@151112 by Jim Main

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Checked the motherboard last time I was out there - no 'on restore power'
though...  pic + relay I think.

The power control over the phone line was done using a commercial unit - a
Technotrend TPS2000 which will answer the line and switch on/off a built-in
power socket according to received DTMF commands.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Herbert Graf" <mailinglistSTOPspamspamspam_OUTFARCITE.NET>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTSTOPspamspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Cycling power remotely on an ATX PC


> Most motherboards have a "On restore power" setting, if you set that to
> "power on" it will power up after a power failure (which is what you are
> doing). If that setting isn't present there is another easy way, connect
the
> power switch to the  circuitry that toggles the power with some sort of a
> delay, if you are using a pic for this then it is easy to do. How are you
> controlling it over the phone line? Thanks, TTYL
>
> > {Original Message removed}

2002\06\19@154012 by Brendan Moran

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Main" <KILLspamjim.mainspamBeGonespamMAINTECH.CO.UK>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Cycling power remotely on an ATX PC


> Checked the motherboard last time I was out there - no 'on restore power'
> though...  pic + relay I think.

Should work just like pressing the reset button on the front of the case.

> The power control over the phone line was done using a commercial unit - a
> Technotrend TPS2000 which will answer the line and switch on/off a
built-in
> power socket according to received DTMF commands.

Why don't you use a 120V relay and still use that?

Brendan

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2002\06\19@154849 by Jeff DeMaagd

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What you are looking for is a "Watchdog timer".  They exist for PCs.  Once
the computer stops due to a hang, it automatically resets the computer after
a predetermined time.

Jeff

{Original Message removed}

2002\06\19@161119 by Jim Main

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Cause it kills power to quite a few items beside the PC.  & I guess you'd
need a small delay between applying power to the PC and hitting the power
on.

(240V by the way, I'm in Scotland  ;-)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brendan Moran" <spamBeGoneannirakspamKILLspamBIGFOOT.COM>
To: <.....PICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, June 19, 2002 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Cycling power remotely on an ATX PC


> Why don't you use a 120V relay and still use that?
>
> Brendan
>

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2002\06\19@180154 by Micro Eng

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we do this all the time....not sure what the problem is.  Believe its a
setup in the BIOS that handles it.  I'll check on it and let you know

{Quote hidden}

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2002\06\20@031530 by Mircea Chiriciuc

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From my experience with ATX power supplies and IBM PCs:
There are many ways a PC can crash each needing another style of rebooting.
If it hangs but it's on, a reset will do.
If there was a power supply dropout the results are endless in manifestation
from rebooting clean (what everyone wants), rebooting but no keyboard, not
rebooting at all with or without power button functioning properly.
The last version is the worst too. In that case you have to unplug main AC
from the power supply for 5 to 10 seconds so that the +5Vst by to completely
go away then plug in main AC to the power supply and press the power button
for 3 seconds to turn the PC back on.
Since I have the BIOS option to Power on the PC after power failure I had
tested it. It does not always work. In the last scenario it does not help at
all so it's not a wise thing to rely on it.
A wise thing to do is to power the PIC from a linear source so you'll have
it work all the time and you can make the monitoring of the PC with it.
I would do like this: If the PIC does not receive a periodical signal from
the PC a certain amount of time, remove AC from the power supply with a
relay for 10 seconds, put it back, wait for 5 seconds for power good and
then hold the Green wire to GND for 5 seconds with a FET or another relay
(this is what the power button does so having two switches in parallel won't
damage nothing) to turn the PC on. Then you'll have to wait for the PC to
boot up and load the operating system. (if it has windows on it you will
have to count the time of  a scan disk at the beginning too after a crush)
and go in normal operation again.
In  my opinion an when you do something do it to work without the PC and use
the PC just for sending data and sophisticated math and display only.
This way you don'y need the telephone switch any more.

Mircea Chiriciuc
EMCO INVEST

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2002\06\20@144622 by Jim

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  "There are many ways a PC can crash each
   needing another style of rebooting. If it hangs
   but it's on, a reset will do."

I just had a hard-drive hang that had tied up a task doing disk
I/O (it seems to have failed a 'wake-up' from the power down
state)  - I  tried the "Reset" pushbutton but the HD was still hung
after reboot (this HD was on the 2nd IDE controller) ... it
finally took powering down to 'clear' whatever it was that was
'hung' in the HD ...

The moral :

     Peripherals can get hung that simple "Reset" won't clear.

(I've also seen this with other peripherals.)

Jim

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2002\06\21@040957 by Alan B. Pearce

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>I just had a hard-drive hang that had tied up a task
>doing disk I/O (it seems to have failed a 'wake-up'
>from the power down state)  - I  tried the "Reset"
>pushbutton but the HD was still hung after reboot
>(this HD was on the 2nd IDE controller) ... it finally
>took powering down to 'clear' whatever it was that was
>'hung' in the HD ...

Much laughter. When I was doing mainframe support we had a bunch of SCSI
disks that would hang the whole mainframe. The symptom was the mainframe
would slowly grind to a halt as it filled its buffers with disk I/O queue.
The solution was for the engineer to go and pull the disk drive at fault, at
which point the error handling code would take over, decide to report a hard
error, and then get on with the job by marking that drive off line and
getting back to work.

Mind you we were in the fortunate position of having drives with multiple
mirrors for system reliability, so pulling a hot-swap drive was not a
problem.

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