Post by thread:[EE]: Cascoded?

I'm reading through some apps notes and what not about amplifiers and ADC's etc. Since my EE background is a little weak I'm encountering a lot of unfamiliar terms, but one in particular is bugging me. I keep reading about things that are cascoded together (transistors, stages, etc.). At first I thought it was a typo (or bad English) and was supposed to read "cascaded", but its occurring too frequently to be a typo. I tried dictionary.com and its clueless too. Spell check doesn't like it either. Does anybody know what "cascoded" is and how it relates to "cascaded"? <rant> On a related note, I really wish companies would hire English speakers/writers if they're going to publish docs using English. Its hard to separate the technical details from the bad grammar. </rant> -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

The term dates from vacuum tube days: Cascade + Cathode. It refers to a discrete two-stage amplifier circuit wherein the first common-cathode stage is direct-coupled to the following common-grid stage. By extension, a two-transistor amplifier consisting of a common-emitter stage direct-coupled to a common-base stage has ended up with the "cascode" name as well. Brian Aase {Quote hidden}> I'm reading through some apps notes and what not about amplifiers > and ADC's etc. > Since my EE background is a little weak I'm encountering a lot of > unfamiliar > terms, but one in particular is bugging me. I keep reading about > things that are > cascoded together (transistors, stages, etc.). At first I thought > it was a typo > (or bad English) and was supposed to read "cascaded", but its > occurring too > frequently to be a typo. I tried dictionary.com and its clueless > too. Spell > check doesn't like it either. Does anybody know what "cascoded" > is and how it > relates to "cascaded"? > > <rant> > On a related note, I really wish companies would hire English > speakers/writers > if they're going to publish docs using English. Its hard to separate the > technical details from the bad grammar. > </rant> > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

IIRC 'cascode' was a special configuration in an amplifier (to my recollection, specifically a low-level RF amplifier) and cascade simply means 'A' follows 'B' in succession in a chain of amplifiers. From Skolnick, "Intro to RADAR Systems" dated 1962 pg 388 I find: Cascode: "Grounded cathode triode followed by a grounded grid triode." I suppose that the use of 'cascode' could apply to solid state devices in similar configuration where a higher-output Z stage (e.g. common or grounded cathode) is loaded (followed by) a lower-Z input stage (e.g. common or grounded grid) could also be described as 'cascode'. Jim {Original Message removed}

> I'm reading through some apps notes and what not about amplifiers and ADC's etc. > Since my EE background is a little weak I'm encountering a lot of unfamiliar > terms, but one in particular is bugging me. I keep reading about things that are > cascoded together (transistors, stages, etc.). At first I thought it was a typo > (or bad English) and was supposed to read "cascaded", but its occurring too > frequently to be a typo. I tried dictionary.com and its clueless too. Spell > check doesn't like it either. Does anybody know what "cascoded" is and how it > relates to "cascaded"? I've seen that term used when two complementary transistors (NPN to PNP or vice versa) are cascaded. The collector of the first transistor is connected to the base of the second. If you tie the emitter of the first to the collector of the second, you are left with three external connections which can act like a single transistor with very high current gain. The concept is similar to a darlington, which uses like transistors to emulate one high gain transistor. > <rant> > On a related note, I really wish companies would hire English speakers/writers > if they're going to publish docs using English. Its hard to separate the > technical details from the bad grammar. > </rant> Please not to offend of honorable translator from Japanese for English. He job only to make manual look like good. Americans not so smart for reading but buy much anything we make. Sell same for manual good or not. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Brandon Fosdick <spam_OUTbfozTakeThisOuTTERRANDEV.COM> wrote: > I keep reading about things that are cascoded together (transistors, > stages, etc.). At first I thought it was a typo (or bad English) and was > supposed to read "cascaded", but its occurring too frequently to be a > typo. I tried dictionary.com and its clueless too. Spell check doesn't > like it either. Does anybody know what "cascoded" is and how it relates > to "cascaded"? Cascoded is a special case of cascaded; for details, see http://www.chipcenter.com/circuitcellar/may00/ancil-0500/c0500eqa7.htm (Let me know if you want help on Miller Effect; that one isn't online any more.) Cascade simply means to hook in series. Two transistors can be hooked in series for a number of reasons, including producing a wider output swing or simply enabling/disabling a particular function. Most often, the term simply refers to a multistage amplifier in which the output of one stage feeds the input of the next. -- Dave Tweed Circuit Cellar EQ editor -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> check doesn't like it either. Does anybody know what "cascoded" is and how it > relates to "cascaded"? If you want to get the most accuracy out of a transistor, keeping the collector-emitter voltage constant is best. To cascode a transistor is to attach another transistor in the collector, wired common-base. In other words, transistor 2 needs a voltage reference for its base, has its emitter connected to the collector of transistor 1. Then transistor 2 does all the dirty work, but transistor 1 feels a constant collector voltage so is very fast and accurate gain-wise. Both transistors are the same polarity. Cheerful regards, Bob Blick -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

From: Olin Lathrop <.....olin_piclistKILLspam@spam@EMBEDINC.COM> Subject: Re: [EE]: Cascoded? >I've seen that term used when two complementary transistors (NPN to PNP or >vice versa) are cascaded. The collector of the first transistor is >connected to the base of the second. Isn't that the Sziklai or complementary Darlington? >If you tie the emitter of the first to >the collector of the second, you are left with three external connections >which can act like a single transistor with very high current gain. The >concept is similar to a darlington, which uses like transistors to emulate >one high gain transistor. Very poor for RF because of the Miller Effect. >> On a related note, I really wish companies would hire English >speakers/writers >> if they're going to publish docs using English. Its hard to separate the >> technical details from the bad grammar. Really! Some people can't spell catalog or color et. Wasn't it Webster (the guy that wrote the dictionary) that tried to modify American grammer to simply all those goofy old complexifications? I can just see a bunch of old drunk Lords and Priests figuring out new and clever ways to confound the ignorant peasants, and changing rules keep the younger generations scholars humble and dependant. Kind of like Micro$oft with Windows. Or the government with the tax code. Scott -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

From: Brandon Fosdick <bfozKILLspamTERRANDEV.COM> Subject: [EE]: Cascoded? >Does anybody know what "cascoded" is and how it >relates to "cascaded"? It (AFAIK) usualy refers to a common emitter cascaded with a common base, the idea being that the direct connection of the common base stage prevents 'Miller' capacitance (base-collector) capacitance of the first stage from loading the input and ruining gain. Good input impedance, good gain, output impedance and isolation. So its a common amplifier for RF. Scott -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

... continuing from Skolnick dated 1962 on the subject of 'cascode' ... * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * "There are three basic methods of using a triode in a circuit, depending upon whether the cathode, grid or anode is grounded. There are, in all, nine combinations possiblewhen using two triodes in each of the above three ground configurations. It was found experimentally that the best of then nine configurations was obtained with a grounded-cathode triode followed by a grounded-grid triode, a combination known as 'cascode amplifier'. The grounded-grid stage loads the first-stage grounded- cathode triode so that the first stage gain is essentially unity. Thus neautralization of the grounded-cathode stage is not needed. The second triode is necessary in order to achieve gain. The cascode amplifier provides the stability, gain, and non-criticalness of a pentode and the low noiseof the triode. Noise figures of .25 dB are possible at a frequency of 6 MC (Ed. note: MHz) 1.25 dB at 30 MC and 5.5 dB at 180 MC." * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Jim {Original Message removed}

The original cascode circuits were vacuum tube where a common cathode amplifier directly drove a common grid amplifier. The tubes were wired "in series", cathode of the bottom tube to ground, plate of the bottom tube to the cathode of the top tube, and plate of the top tube through a load resistor to B+. The same thing can be done with transistors (whether BJT or FET). For BJT, it's emitter to ground (or a small bias resistor to ground), collector to the emitter of the top transistor, and collector of the top transistor to a load resistor to supply. The bases are biased from a voltage divider. The top transistor base is held at AC ground with a bypass capacitor. Again, this is a common emitter amplifier driving a common base amplifier. The collector of a transistor can be thought of as a controlled current source (Hfe * Ib) with a parallel resistor (Hoe). This parallel resistor causes the collector current to not be constant as the collector voltage varies. However, having the collector drive the very low input resistance of the "top" common base amplifier keeps the collector voltage relatively constant while maintaining the current gain (since the current gain of the common base transistor is very close to 1). Cascode seems to be used a lot in VHF or higher preamplifier designs. I've never designed one myself, but I've taught the basics of it in the circuit analysis classes I teach. Harold On Tue, 28 May 2002 12:31:15 -0400 Brandon Fosdick <.....bfozKILLspam.....TERRANDEV.COM> writes: {Quote hidden}> I'm reading through some apps notes and what not about amplifiers and > ADC's etc. > Since my EE background is a little weak I'm encountering a lot of > unfamiliar > terms, but one in particular is bugging me. I keep reading about > things that are > cascoded together (transistors, stages, etc.). At first I thought it > was a typo > (or bad English) and was supposed to read "cascaded", but its > occurring too > frequently to be a typo. I tried dictionary.com and its clueless > too. Spell > check doesn't like it either. Does anybody know what "cascoded" is > and how it > relates to "cascaded"? > > <rant> > On a related note, I really wish companies would hire English > speakers/writers > if they're going to publish docs using English. Its hard to separate > the > technical details from the bad grammar. > </rant> > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out > subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > > FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: dl.http://www.juno.com/get/web/. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Tue, 28 May 2002, Jim wrote: > "The concept is similar to a darlington, which > uses like transistors to emulate one high gain > transistor." > >The 'cascode' configuration has other goals like >improved bandwidth and lower noise figure as contrasted >to simply increasing the gain, verily, voltage (and even >current) gain in a cascode configuration is _lower_ >than other configurations ... Cascode gain is only slighlty lower than with emitter coupled stages. The main advantage of the cascode is the very low output-input coupling. The other is the possibility to match the output and input very well (better than emitter coupled stages). Source: Sedra-Smith Microelectronic Circuits and other books. Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Tue, 28 May 2002, Scott Stephens wrote: >From: Olin Lathrop <EraseMEolin_piclistspam_OUTTakeThisOuTEMBEDINC.COM> >Subject: Re: [EE]: Cascoded? > > >>I've seen that term used when two complementary transistors (NPN to PNP or >>vice versa) are cascaded. The collector of the first transistor is >>connected to the base of the second. > >Isn't that the Sziklai or complementary Darlington? No the Sziklai is the comlpementary darlington, but there are cascode variants that use pnp/npn and/or fet's for one or the other of the stages. The Y final amplifiers in most scopes and many TV video amplifiers (tube cathode modulation) are cascodes (in this case the second element of the cascode is the picture tube's triode section). Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> "The concept is similar to a darlington, which > uses like transistors to emulate one high gain > transistor." > > The 'cascode' configuration has other goals like > improved bandwidth and lower noise figure as contrasted > to simply increasing the gain, verily, voltage (and even > current) gain in a cascode configuration is _lower_ > than other configurations ... Yes, I was apparently confusing the terms "pseudo darlington" with "cascode". ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> >I've seen that term used when two complementary transistors (NPN to PNP or > >vice versa) are cascaded. The collector of the first transistor is > >connected to the base of the second. > > Isn't that the Sziklai or complementary Darlington? Yes, I got my terms mixed up. I used a cascode configuration in a transmitter once, not knowing it had a special name. The advantage was that the transistors could be run at higher frequency because the miller effect is nullified in both transistors. It worked like a charm dumping 1MHz AM into the power line. ***************************************************************** Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts (978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

>If you tie the emitter of the first to >the collector of the second, you are left with three external connections >which can act like a single transistor with very high current gain. The >concept is similar to a darlington, which uses like transistors to emulate >one high gain transistor. Emitter? Collector? Are they perchance anything like Anode & Cathode ? :-) > Very poor for RF because of the Miller Effect. And yet capable of improving performance of valve front ends substantially. Long long ago I used an ARC-5 receiver (US WW2 war surplus still available on amateur market decades after their birth) as a ham band receiver. I changed the RF front end to Cascode configuration using a dual-triode with all the (simple) circuitry being implemented in a space construction on a valve base so the whole affair plugged into the original valve socket (not my design). I now can't remember what the intended advantages were in this context but the practical result was a vast improvement in the sensitivity of the receiver. This was on the "80 metre" (3.5 - 3.9 MHz ham band) which nowadays would almost not count as RF :-) Russell McMahon . -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> "The main advantage of the cascode is the > very low output-input coupling" > > Has the concept of "neutralization" (a means of > countering a finite figure for input-output > isolation or "reverse" gain) been lost on the > more recent, solid-state and IC generation? Apparently yes. An unseen gain of modern technology. When old enemies are (largely) beaten terms used to describe ways to combat them or suffer from them tend to fade away :-). Defenestration anybody? RM -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Jim wrote... >Has the concept of "neutralization" (a means of >countering a finite figure for input-output >isolation or "reverse" gain) been lost on the >more recent, solid-state and IC generation? Nope. The term itself has fallen into disuse but the concept is very much alive, having broadened into a set of methods for stabilizing feedback loops. For example, putting a small shunt capacitance across the feedback resistor in an opamp circuit (often necessary when the resistance is very large) to damp out high-frequency ringing in its step response is, in a sense, "neutralizing" the opamp's input capacitance since that capacitance is often a major contributor to the ringing. DD -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

"putting a small shunt capacitance across the feedback resistor in an opamp circuit" I don't think this quite qualifies ... there is no intrinsic 'feedback' or 'reverse gain' (input to output isolation problem) within the device, rather the phase-gain margin over the frequency range of device is such that in some circuit configurations the "feedback" must compensate for this phase shift with frequency ... Neutralization does just that - 'neutralizes' that feedback component which would otherwise exist. I have an old tube RF amp in which the neutralization can be adjusted with the power off - by measurement of the S12 or reverse direction gain A/K/A isolation figure from output to input - adjustment calls for adjusting the tuning for a *minimum* or a null in the signal from output to input using a signal generator and spectrum analyzer/receiver. Jim {Original Message removed}

Jim wrote... >I have an old tube RF amp in which the neutralization >can be adjusted with the power off - by measurement >of the S12 or reverse direction gain A/K/A isolation >figure from output to input - adjustment calls >for adjusting the tuning for a *minimum* or a null >in the signal from output to input using a signal >generator and spectrum analyzer/receiver. My very first paying job, back when I was in high school, was on a production line doing just that. We were making these little 2-meter Nuvistor preamps for somebody, and my job was sitting there tweaking the trimmers to get that null. Over and over, all day long... DD -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> My very first paying job, back when I was in high school, was on > a production line doing just that. We were making these little > 2-meter Nuvistor preamps for somebody, and my job was sitting > there tweaking the trimmers to get that null. Over and over, all > day long... For the uninitiated, a Nuvistor is a FET with a heating element inside :-) Well, maybe not quite. They were (are?) very small vacuum tubes with a metal casing - size was about the tip of a typical small finger AFAIR. Excellent VHF characteristics due to small size and low interelectrode capacitance etc. Much loved by radio amateurs for use on 2 metres (144 MHz) and probably higher. RM -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Russell McMahon <PICLISTspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu> wrote: > For the uninitiated, a Nuvistor is a FET with a heating element inside :-) > > Well, maybe not quite. They were (are?) very small vacuum tubes with a metal > casing "Were", not "are"; as far as I know, no one is making them anymore. However, they ARE being designed into new products; Musical Fidelity's "Nu-Vista" amplifiers and CD player use nuvistors, and MF are apparently stocking a spare set of nuvistors for each unit they ship. -Andy === Andrew Warren -- @spam@aiwKILLspamcypress.com === Principal Design Engineer === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation === === Opinions expressed above do not === necessarily represent those of === Cypress Semiconductor Corporation -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

>The 'cascode' configuration has other goals like >improved bandwidth and lower noise figure as contrasted >to simply increasing the gain, verily, voltage (and even >current) gain in a cascode configuration is _lower_ >than other configurations ... Not sure why you perceive it as having low voltage gain, one of my memories of the use of this configuration is to have a low voltage swing input drive a high voltage transistor in the output stages of oscilloscopes for deflection plate drive. The original configuration was designed for RF use when the devices available had high miller feedback effects. The use of two devices in the cascode configuration resulted in much better output to input isolation, allowing much higher gain. Originally used quite widely in the RF stages of TV tuners, back in the days when these were built with vacuum tubes, but I imagine the configuration was used long before that. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

"Not sure why you perceive it as having low voltage gain" Trade-offs are often made in the pursuit of other of goals at the cost of sheer overall "gain" - such as achieving a usually elusive _low noise figure_ and circuit stability - factors closely tied to the physics and structure of the devices (tubes) that were used in the time frame when the 'cascode' configuration was 'discovered' and the term coined. In today's world those goals are much easier to meet but were a bonafide _challenge_ fifty years ago given the devices and technology available ... I think the quotes I excerpted from Skolnick said it best in this regard. "Originally used quite widely in the RF stages of TV tuners," We might find out the origins of the 'cascode' circuit configuration if we were to research this subject in the MIT "Rad Lab Series" (meaning it was probably first used in RADAR apps beginning in the forties and prior to use in TV tuners) ... Jim {Original Message removed}

On Tue, 28 May 2002, Jim wrote: > "putting a small shunt capacitance across the > feedback resistor in an opamp circuit" > >I don't think this quite qualifies ... there is >no intrinsic 'feedback' or 'reverse gain' (input >to output isolation problem) within the device, I think that he meant feed-forward reaction (small cap from output to + input) to increase the apparent slew rate at the output. This used to be popular to make 'high speed' opamps out of 741s and the like. Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Tue, 28 May 2002, Jim wrote: > "The main advantage of the cascode is the > very low output-input coupling" > >Has the concept of "neutralization" (a means of >countering a finite figure for input-output >isolation or "reverse" gain) been lost on the >more recent, solid-state and IC generation? <g> no, but everyone remembers tetrodes (and up) and shielded-cb-junction transistors like the BF173 (which is great by the way). Even if they are younger than you think ... Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Peter wrote... >On Tue, 28 May 2002, Jim wrote: > >> "putting a small shunt capacitance across the >> feedback resistor in an opamp circuit" >> >>I don't think this quite qualifies ... there is >>no intrinsic 'feedback' or 'reverse gain' (input >>to output isolation problem) within the device, > >I think that he meant feed-forward reaction (small cap from output to + >input) to increase the apparent slew rate at the output. This used to be >popular to make 'high speed' opamps out of 741s and the like. No, I meant exactly what I said, and it had absolutely nothing to do with either feed-forward techniques or with the use of positive feedback such as what you've described above. FWIW, I agree with Jim's comment that the opamp compensation I spoke of isn't all that closely related to the process of "neutralizing" an RF amplifier; I can't think of any really good non-RF analogies to neutralization. DD -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

>>I have an old tube RF amp in which the neutralization >>can be adjusted with the power off - by measurement >>of the S12 or reverse direction gain A/K/A isolation >>figure from output to input - adjustment calls >>for adjusting the tuning for a *minimum* or a null >>in the signal from output to input using a signal >>generator and spectrum analyzer/receiver. > >My very first paying job, back when I was in high school, was on >a production line doing just that. We were making these little >2-meter Nuvistor preamps for somebody, and my job was sitting >there tweaking the trimmers to get that null. Over and over, all >day long... Some the great old HeathKit radios had a piece of wire sticking up next to the final power amplifier. You were supposed to push it around a bit until the capacitance between it and the tube was just right, thus "neutralizing" the final stage. As I recall the instructions had you disconnect something (probably the plate supply) and adjust it for a null, as cited above. wa2qmi -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Barry Gershenfeld wrote... >Some the great old HeathKit radios had a piece of wire sticking >up next to the final power amplifier. You were supposed to >push it around a bit until the capacitance between it and the >tube was just right, thus "neutralizing" the final stage. As >I recall the instructions had you disconnect something (probably >the plate supply) and adjust it for a null, as cited above. And don't forget "gimmick" capacitors- a couple of short pieces of insulated wire twisted together. Tighten or loosen the twists to change the capacitance and make the circuit work right... DD -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Jim wrote: > We might find out the origins of the 'cascode' circuit > configuration if we were to research this subject in > the MIT "Rad Lab Series" (meaning it was probably first > used in RADAR apps beginning in the forties and prior > to use in TV tuners) ... Out of curiosity I looked in the MIT Radiation Lab books. The cascode amplifier is described in volume 18, written in 1946. The description dealt mainly with increasing the gain of a triode amp to make it approximately equal to a pentode without having to use a screen grid power supply. It was described in the Direct Coupled Amplifier section. No mention was made of its use as an RF amp. Another reference I found mentioned that the cascode amp was developed in the MIT labs during WW2 and described it's use as a low noise VHF RF amp. I first used a cascode amp to replace a pentode RF amp in a communications receiver I had in 1949. It really pepped up the performance on 10 and 20 meters. Cheers, Bill -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

As long as the schematic (schematic circuit diagram) is correct - we're happy ... Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brandon Fosdick" <KILLspambfozKILLspamTERRANDEV.COM> To: <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Sent: Monday, June 03, 2002 11:57 AM Subject: Re: [EE]: Cascoded? > Olin Lathrop wrote: > > Please not to offend of honorable translator from Japanese for English. He > > job only to make manual look like good. Americans not so smart for reading > > but buy much anything we make. Sell same for manual good or not. > > So terribly true. > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.