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'[EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!)'
2002\02\07@184127 by Edson Brusque

face
flavicon
face
Hello people,

   I'm looking for a new CD-player for my car but I'm seriously thinking
about spending some time doing my own Car-MP3-player.

   My idea is to use one of that little single board computers (SBC) with
one AWE64 sound card, one HD and displaying the informations on an 4x40
44780 LCD. The keys would simply be switches attached to the printer port
with the LCD.

   Well, I'm looking for some DOS based MP3 players and there is many that
could do the job. Probably there's someone that made a player with support
for LCD and switches on parallel port.

   The biggest problem seens to found a SBC (486DX4-100 would do) that I
could buy cheaply and only one unit. Someone here knows where can I buy a
486 SBC on an ISA card format?

   Thank you very much,

   Brusque

-----------------------------------
Edson Brusque
Research and Development
C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda
Blumenau  -  SC  -  Brazil
http://www.citronics.com.br
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2002\02\07@190901 by Ashley Roll

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Hi Brusque,

Just too let you know, You can build your own player with a PIC! Not simple,
but can be done.

I'm nearing the end of a development process for a client where I've made an
MP3 player using a PIC16F877 (20MHz) a Compact Flash card for storage
(reading FAT16) streaming the MP3 data to a STA013 mpeg decoder IC. I've
written all the code in C, no optimisation and it happily plays 128Kbps MP3s
which are more then good enough for a car sound system and much better then
my clients needs.

A 64MB CF card will hold about a CD's worth at the 128Kbps data rate and you
can get bigger ones and IBM micro-drives that pretend to be CF cards in the
1GB range..

Unfortunately, I'm not able to give much detail because it is a commercial
project for a client, but I thought some on the list may be interested to
know it can be done.. :) Others have probably already done it.. :)

If you have any specific questions about it I'll try to answer them..

Actually If anyone is interested I might be able to adapt this system (if my
client agrees) to a kit so you can build your own car MP3 player.. It is all
surface mount though :) Any takers?

Cheers,
Ash

---
Ashley Roll
Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd
http://www.digitalnemesis.com
Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718




> {Original Message removed}

2002\02\07@203723 by mooseman

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your mileage may vary, but i was unable to get enough horsepower out of my
486-133 using some of the dos mp3 players that i found on the net.

until i went to a p75 smooth mp3 was not to be had with the software and
sound card i had

you might have better success than me though.

moose

On February  7, 2002 03:37 pm, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\07@204608 by Edson Brusque

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Hello Ashley,

> Just too let you know, You can build your own player with a PIC! Not
simple,
> but can be done.
<SNIP>

   yes, this was already discussed here.

   But I can't expend much time on this as it's just a particular project.
I just want to make it the faster/cheaper way and a [SBC with a soundcard (I
have a pair of AWE64 on boxes) and an HD running a DOS-MP3-player with just
an LCD and some switches] seens to be the easier solution.

   Best regards,

   Brusque

-----------------------------------
Edson Brusque
Research and Development
C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda
Blumenau  -  SC  -  Brazil
http://www.citronics.com.br
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2002\02\07@212037 by Eben Olson

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simplest solution = buy a nomad jukebox, archos jukebox, etc.
2 simplest solution = go on ebay, buy a cheap laptop and a car adaptor
probably easier than an sbc and most likely cheaper as well.
{Original Message removed}

2002\02\07@221647 by Bob Blick

face picon face
DOS? Yuck! Don't you have a hard drive size limit and 8.3 names? I
have full code(PC side and PIC side) if you want to use Linux and a
serial port.

There are some 486 boards that just plain will not work, something
about DMA really interferes with being an MP3 player. I'd suggest an
LPX-format socket-7 motherboard, you can get them for $15 and
have onboard good-quality sound, video, etc, in a small format.

Cheers,

Bob Blick

{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\07@223550 by Paul Arch

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try
       http://www.mp3ar.com

 this is a public mp3 player project using a PIC16F877.  All the source
and pcb info is available, and I am happy to say the player works well
:)

cheers

Edson Brusque wrote:
{Quote hidden}

DSP Systems (a division of SPC-Ardmona Limited). [MMII]

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2002\02\08@011342 by Kevin Fisk

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I'm not sure whether you want the sound or the project, but I recall
some fellows in England did this about 2 years ago. They offered it up
as a product and if I recall correctly they used a PIC as the front
panel controller. All seems very fuzzy right at the moment .... if I
remember the site, and they're still around, I'll post again. Cheers, Kevin

Edson Brusque wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\08@025125 by Martin Buehler

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btw: this thing runs on a pent75.





i use the mpxplay dos mp3 player: http://mpxplay.tripod.com/
there is a frontend called mpxf: http://www.radioactivesoft.com
the frontend requires mpxplayer 1.42 and is able to run an lcd at the
parallel port, and an ir2pc compatible remote control at the serialport.
if you need a modified version of the mpxf, able to run with mpxplayer
1.43 or higher, write a mail to spam_OUTmbsdTakeThisOuTspamgmx.ch with 'send mpxf' in the
subject line.
tino





Edson Brusque <.....ebrusqueKILLspamspam@spam@TERRA.COM.BR>
Gesendet von: pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
08.02.02 00:37
Bitte antworten an pic microcontroller discussion list


       An:     .....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
       Kopie:
       Thema:  [EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!)


Hello people,

   I'm looking for a new CD-player for my car but I'm seriously thinking
about spending some time doing my own Car-MP3-player.

   My idea is to use one of that little single board computers (SBC) with
one AWE64 sound card, one HD and displaying the informations on an 4x40
44780 LCD. The keys would simply be switches attached to the printer port
with the LCD.

   Well, I'm looking for some DOS based MP3 players and there is many
that
could do the job. Probably there's someone that made a player with support
for LCD and switches on parallel port.

   The biggest problem seens to found a SBC (486DX4-100 would do) that I
could buy cheaply and only one unit. Someone here knows where can I buy a
486 SBC on an ISA card format?

   Thank you very much,

   Brusque

-----------------------------------
Edson Brusque
Research and Development
C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda
Blumenau  -  SC  -  Brazil
http://www.citronics.com.br
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2002\02\08@084157 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Blick [SMTP:EraseMEbblickspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTSONIC.NET]
> Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:16 AM
> To:   PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!)
>
> DOS? Yuck! Don't you have a hard drive size limit and 8.3 names? I
> have full code(PC side and PIC side) if you want to use Linux and a
> serial port.
>
Nice thing about DOS is that you can happily power up and down with vritualy
no chance of causing any HD corruption.  Linux is a bit of a fscking
nuisance in that respect :o)  Dos will also boot in a couple of seconds
which is handy if you just want to turn on and get some music out of the
thing.

Mike

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2002\02\08@095223 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Fri, Feb 08, 2002 at 01:40:43PM -0000, Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bob Blick [SMTP:@spam@bblickKILLspamspamSONIC.NET]
> > Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:16 AM
> > To:   KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> > Subject:      Re: [EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!)
> >
> > DOS? Yuck! Don't you have a hard drive size limit and 8.3 names? I
> > have full code(PC side and PIC side) if you want to use Linux and a
> > serial port.
> >
> Nice thing about DOS is that you can happily power up and down with vritualy
> no chance of causing any HD corruption.  Linux is a bit of a fscking
> nuisance in that respect :o)  Dos will also boot in a couple of seconds
> which is handy if you just want to turn on and get some music out of the
> thing.

This looks like a good opportunity to talk about my Linux based setup.

I use several tools to handle the power up/power down issue. First all the
HD partitions are mounted read only. All of the variable partitions (/tmp
and /var) are located on a ramdisk. So it can be powered down with
extreme prejudice and laugh at you.

My plan is to use a IDE Zip drive for transport. They're a steal at $29
a pop and can autoeject the disk without pushing out a tray. 100MB
will usually get you two CD's worth of music which is about the frequency
I transfer anyway.

I found the most annoying thing about booting in a car is the battery drop
during starting. So I have a micro UPS consisting of a 12V gel cell that
carries the system for the few seconds that the car is starting.

The last interesting item which I haven't implemented yet is LinuxBIOS.
Essentially you flash a modified Linux kernel onto the motherboard which
boots directly without all the pesky POST/memory sequences that standard
BIOSes have. Boots to a running state in less than 10 seconds and can be
powered down with impunity. Check it out at http://www.linuxbios.org.

By far the toughest part for everyone (except for Bob, Roman, and Russell ;-)
is the power supply. I've learned a bunch about both switching and linear
supplies in the last year. I'm in the final stages of my switching 5V
(based on Russell's design) LDO linear 12V (based on Roman's suggestions)
for powering the beast. I'm ripping a stack of CD's for it even as we
speak.

Edson, I haven't yet found a cost effective SBC for this project. My
small box is a Baby-AT Socket 7 MB with onboard sound, video, and
ethernet, using a 450 Mhz AMD K6. It's mounted in a 11x16x2 inch
organizing case with the removable buckets. This houses the MB,
13GB HD, and the zip. The power supply will be external to the case.

Of course it'll have a PIC based, serial interfaced, control panel.
Eventually it'll interface to a yet to be written program that will
interface with a set of scripts that I've written to control the play
mix on my home PC MP3 player. Commands such as skip, repeat, and find
are already in the arsenal. Normal mode is to play a continuous random
playlist.

The thought of having over 200 CDs worth of music at my fingertips in
the car is quite pleasing.

Good Luck on your project.

BAJ

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2002\02\08@113902 by Edson Brusque

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flavicon
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Hello Michael,

> Nice thing about DOS is that you can happily power up and down with
vritualy
> no chance of causing any HD corruption.  Linux is a bit of a fscking
> nuisance in that respect :o)  Dos will also boot in a couple of seconds
> which is handy if you just want to turn on and get some music out of the
> thing.

   agreed. This is why I want to make this thing with DOS (well, maybe
FreeDOS or other free DOS-Like SO).

   Best regards,

   Brusque

-----------------------------------
Edson Brusque
Research and Development
C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda
Blumenau  -  SC  -  Brazil
http://www.citronics.com.br
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2002\02\08@113910 by bblick

face picon face
On Fri, 8 Feb 2002, Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:
> >
> Nice thing about DOS is that you can happily power up and down with vritualy
> no chance of causing any HD corruption.  Linux is a bit of a fscking
> nuisance in that respect :o)  Dos will also boot in a couple of seconds
> which is handy if you just want to turn on and get some music out of the
> thing.

ext3 filesystem is much more tolerant of that. Having 100MB ethernet is
nice too, so you don't have to yank the thing out of the car each time you
want to change something.

I certainly see the point of a DOS player, but the really cool ones use
Linux :)

Mine takes 40 seconds to boot, waits 10 minutes when the car is shut
offbefore powering down gracefully(the 10 minutes is to let you buy a pack
of smokes or get gas without rebooting).

Cheers,

Bob

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2002\02\08@121230 by Nick Veys

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face
Even easier is to simply mount the filesystem read-only when in "Play"
mode...

> Nice thing about DOS is that you can happily power up and down with
> vritualy no chance of causing any HD corruption.  Linux is a bit of a
> fscking nuisance in that respect :o)  Dos will also boot in a couple
> of seconds which is handy if you just want to turn on and get some
> music out of the thing.

ext3 filesystem is much more tolerant of that. Having 100MB ethernet is
nice too, so you don't have to yank the thing out of the car each time
you want to change something.

I certainly see the point of a DOS player, but the really cool ones use
Linux :)

Mine takes 40 seconds to boot, waits 10 minutes when the car is shut
offbefore powering down gracefully(the 10 minutes is to let you buy a
pack of smokes or get gas without rebooting).

Cheers,

Bob

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2002\02\08@121448 by Josh Koffman

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If you mount the hard drive as read only, you should be able to avoid
corruption on a Linux partition IIRC.

Josh
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Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:
>
> > {Original Message removed}

2002\02\09@134033 by Keith Christopher

picon face
>
> Mine takes 40 seconds to boot, waits 10 minutes when
> the car is shut
> offbefore powering down gracefully(the 10 minutes is
> to let you buy a
> pack of smokes or get gas without rebooting).
>

Ok this is a microcontroller list, and you're not using embedded linux ? Boots in 30sec's


I still think the PC in a car version (PC104 or singleboard) is a bit overkill to get MP3's to play. With the hardware out there to play MP3's (STA or Micronas) and the DAC's, simply outputting from a PIC or SX to the MP3 decoder, well that's fashionable small, low power and fast booting.


And if you put a smart media or CF device on the other side WOW. lite, tight and outta site.





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2002\02\09@140524 by Patrick J

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Id like to see a wireless NIC added to the player so I can
see my 'car' in the network and manage (ul/dl files) my mp3
collection remotely from my LAN once I have parked in the
range of the wireless basestation.



{Original Message removed}

2002\02\09@174247 by Aaron Blohowiak

picon face
I am sure your client wont want to lose business on this, so how about just
releasing the pic code, and basic layout cause that is enough for most
picsters who would do this project anyway, but not enough to take clients
away from your client.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ashley Roll" <spamBeGoneashspamBeGonespamDIGITALNEMESIS.COM>
To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 7:07 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!)


> Hi Brusque,
>
> Just too let you know, You can build your own player with a PIC! Not
simple,
> but can be done.
>
> I'm nearing the end of a development process for a client where I've made
an
> MP3 player using a PIC16F877 (20MHz) a Compact Flash card for storage
> (reading FAT16) streaming the MP3 data to a STA013 mpeg decoder IC. I've
> written all the code in C, no optimisation and it happily plays 128Kbps
MP3s
> which are more then good enough for a car sound system and much better
then
> my clients needs.
>
> A 64MB CF card will hold about a CD's worth at the 128Kbps data rate and
you
> can get bigger ones and IBM micro-drives that pretend to be CF cards in
the
> 1GB range..
>
> Unfortunately, I'm not able to give much detail because it is a commercial
> project for a client, but I thought some on the list may be interested to
> know it can be done.. :) Others have probably already done it.. :)
>
> If you have any specific questions about it I'll try to answer them..
>
> Actually If anyone is interested I might be able to adapt this system (if
my
> client agrees) to a kit so you can build your own car MP3 player.. It is
all
{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2002\02\09@195320 by Ashley Roll

flavicon
face
Hi Aaron,

Unfortunately the code is exactly what I need to ask them about, basically
they paid me to write it so they own it.. giving it away is not the done
thing ;)

The circuit is pieced together basically from example circuits and
datasheets.. The only tricky thing in the circuit is the 5V logic conversion
to 3V logic for the STA013 and DAC. For that I used to scheme that Philips
recommends for doing this on IIC using a small mosfet.

To tell you the truth, the hardest bit is the parsing of the FAT16 file
system! the rest is all available in the datasheets and other example web
sites.

I would redesign the circuit if I was going to do anything (haven't
mentioned it to them yet) because the system I developed for them has a
bunch of extra features that are specific to their requirements and are not
needed for normal players..

Thing is that there are already a bunch of good quality kit MP3 players out
there.. I'm not sure it will be worth my while to do this.

If you interested in building one here are the basic bits. This is by no
means on the only way.. but I've successfully used them and it isn't too
difficult once you get the basics (IIC, fast serial driver, CF interface and
FAT16 parser) going. You just initialise the STA013 using data in the EEPROM
(data comes from ST for the decoder) then monitor the STA013's "feed me
data" line and stream it chunks of MP3 data straight from the CF card..

The circuit basically consists of:

PIC16F877 20Mhz
CF card, interfaced to the pic in 8 bit mode using register only access
24LC64 EEPROM to store settings and about 4K worth of initialisation data
for the STA013
STA013 from http://www.st.com
CS4331-KS DAC from Cirrus logic / Crystal. or any number of other DACs.
LCD module and some switches..

I also included a switch mode PSU using a L5970D, and a 3V LDO regulator
LE33CD both also from ST.

If your thinking of playing with this be aware that almost all of this is
surface mount only and the compact flash connector will have very fine pitch
pins to connect too on your PCB. You will need to get boards made unless you
can find someone that makes an adaptor PCB.

---
Ashley Roll
Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd
http://www.digitalnemesis.com
Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718




> {Original Message removed}

2002\02\10@011456 by Keith Christopher

picon face
Well you're wanting to go PC104 then, withthe pcmcia
card. Easy enough. costly enough

Keith
--- Patrick J <RemoveMEinfospamTakeThisOuTDATECH.SE> wrote:
> Id like to see a wireless NIC added to the player so
> I can
> see my 'car' in the network and manage (ul/dl files)
> my mp3
> collection remotely from my LAN once I have parked
> in the
> range of the wireless basestation.
>
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

2002\02\10@062347 by Patrick J

flavicon
face
I am not familiar with the PC104 concept...

As far as the wireless thing goes its not that expensive
A radiocard is just $60-ish. I already have a few around.
Unfortunately a car is made of metal so I think the antenna
must be on the car roof.

One disavantage to using a PC that I see is that its big,
clumsy and the powerreq. is complicated. Where to hide it ?
Not sure how sensitive the PC/harddrive is to a temperature
range of -30 to +50 celcius or vibrations?


> Well you're wanting to go PC104 then, withthe pcmcia
> card. Easy enough. costly enough
> Keith

> > Id like to see a wireless NIC added to the player so
> > I can see my 'car' in the network and manage (ul/dl files)
> > my mp3 collection remotely from my LAN once I have
> > parked in the range of my wireless basestation.

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2002\02\10@092046 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 10:39:34AM -0800, Keith Christopher wrote:
> >
> > Mine takes 40 seconds to boot, waits 10 minutes when
> > the car is shut
> > offbefore powering down gracefully(the 10 minutes is
> > to let you buy a
> > pack of smokes or get gas without rebooting).
> >
>
> Ok this is a microcontroller list, and you're not using embedded linux ?
> Boots in 30sec's

If you turn off the massive testing in the BIOS, normal Linux boots in about
the same amount of time to a virtual terminal. And who needs X when the device
has no monitor?

>
>
> I still think the PC in a car version (PC104 or singleboard) is a bit
> overkill to get MP3's to play. With the hardware out there to play MP3's
> (STA or Micronas) and the DAC's, simply outputting from a PIC or SX to the
> MP3 decoder, well that's fashionable small, low power and fast booting.

The only problem is that you've turned it from a systems integration job
with commodity components into a systems development job. On the PC side all
of the hardware is built and tested, and all of the software is developed and
tested. It's little more than integrating in a smaller case and providing
power. Building from scratch is much tougher. The publicMP3 that was metioned
in this thread is a great help, because all the development has been done.
But frankly if one is willing to live with an inverter/regular power supply
to power the beast, it's a weekend job.

>
>
> And if you put a smart media or CF device on the other side WOW. lite,
> tight and outta site.

Only problem is that it isn't enought media. I finally figured out that a music
collection is like the Internet: it reaches it ultimate capability when it
becomes ubiquitous. My current ripped collection is about 8.5GB and I have
another 30-35 CD's to do. And it is a nonnegotioable requirement for me that
I'm able to carry the entire collection. It's not a requirement that my
unit be portable from the vechicle, only that it fits in the vechicle. So
a 20-30GB HD, even in a 3.5in form factor, works fine for me.

As for overkill, I'm now thinking ahead to adding an LCD screen and Tivo/DVD
functionality. Again it's only a systems integration issue since all the
software and hardware componenets are commodity.

Personally I don't think that a PC is overkill. It's not only the correct and
most cost effective unit for this task, but has natural expansion capabilities.

BAJ

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2002\02\10@092454 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 10:12:19PM -0800, Keith Christopher wrote:
> Well you're wanting to go PC104 then, withthe pcmcia
> card. Easy enough. costly enough

Actually it's funny. The most costly components are made of nearly pure
unobtainium. And that's a PCI PCMCIA adapter and a PCI right angle adapter.

There used to be a company that made a wireless NIC that attached to the
parallel port. That's what I wish still existed today.

BAJ
{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

2002\02\10@094439 by Byron A Jeff

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On Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 12:23:52PM +0100, Patrick J wrote:
> I am not familiar with the PC104 concept...

Standard PC technology in a smaller, stackable form factor. Check out

http://www.pc104.com/whatis.html

For an overview.


>
> As far as the wireless thing goes its not that expensive
> A radiocard is just $60-ish. I already have a few around.
> Unfortunately a car is made of metal so I think the antenna
> must be on the car roof.
>
> One disavantage to using a PC that I see is that its big,
> clumsy and the powerreq. is complicated. Where to hide it ?

Fortunately I have large vehicles (minivan, Yukon XL. It fits under the seats.
For a smaller vechicle you'll have to consider a trunk mounted unit.

> Not sure how sensitive the PC/harddrive is to a temperature
> range of -30 to +50 celcius or vibrations?

Temp in the cabin hasn't been a problem. PC's seems to do OK in all
environments humans tolerate. IIRC Bob Blick has been running his unit
for almost three years with no problems.

As for vibrations, absolutely no problems on road. Not even the occasional
pothole causes a glitch. No clue about offroad though.

BAJ
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2002\02\10@133916 by Edson Brusque

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Hello Byron,

> Standard PC technology in a smaller, stackable form factor. Check out
> http://www.pc104.com/whatis.html
> For an overview.

   I believe a PC/104 computer would be the best thing to make a
car-mp3-player. It could even work with a GPS and other things. Would be a
very cool thing to have with you when you're driving.

   The problem is, as always, cost. An MZ104-1MB (MachZ [kind of
586-on-a-chip] based PC/104 Computer, 2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 USB, E-IDE,
1mb BIOS flash, 0K SDRAM) costs about US$249. This is too much. Something
like US$100 would be more tolarable.

   Best regards,

   Brusque

-----------------------------------
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2002\02\11@053636 by sambuddy

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>If you turn off the massive testing in the BIOS, normal Linux boots in about
>the same amount of time to a virtual terminal. >

How do you do this?

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2002\02\11@100015 by Eoin Ross

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You can get (but thinking the CPU won't be grunty enough) a 386-40MHz WITH LAN for US$120 from Abia technologies

http://www.abiatech.com/fb2310.htm
Or alternatively ...
http://www.abiatech.com/fb2650.htm
5.25" Socket 370 w/ 4 Com ports, VGA/LCD, 2 10/100 LANs, Audio, TV I/O, DOC, USB, 1 PCI slot,
$288.40 - need CPU, Power supply, HDD

>>> RemoveMEebrusqueKILLspamspamTERRA.COM.BR 02/10/02 02:37PM >>>
Hello Byron,

> Standard PC technology in a smaller, stackable form factor. Check out
> http://www.pc104.com/whatis.html
> For an overview.

   I believe a PC/104 computer would be the best thing to make a
car-mp3-player. It could even work with a GPS and other things. Would be a
very cool thing to have with you when you're driving.

   The problem is, as always, cost. An MZ104-1MB (MachZ [kind of
586-on-a-chip] based PC/104 Computer, 2 serial, 1 parallel, 1 USB, E-IDE,
1mb BIOS flash, 0K SDRAM) costs about US$249. This is too much. Something
like US$100 would be more tolarable.

   Best regards,

   Brusque

-----------------------------------
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2002\02\11@113525 by Edson Brusque

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Hello Eoin,

>http://www.abiatech.com/fb2650.htm
>5.25" Socket 370 w/ 4 Com ports, VGA/LCD, 2 10/100 LANs, Audio, TV I/O,
DOC, USB, 1 PCI >slot, $288.40 - need CPU, Power supply, HDD

   I've seen this CPUs have "On board ESS1938 chipset build-in 3D sound
system". Will this work in DOS? Emulate an SB16? Worse yet, have agood sound
quality???

   Thank you very much.

   Best regards,

   Brusque

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2002\02\11@114526 by Dal Wheeler

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How about something like this:

www.halted.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/cgi-local/smpagegen.exe?U+scsto
re+ncsn1540ff6af86a+-p+-c+scstore.cfg+80604

I think this would decode mp3's if you didn't through too much of a UI on
it...  I've seen dos mp3 decoders that run on 486dx2-66's...

{Original Message removed}

2002\02\11@125522 by Richard Sloan

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Only 128kbps, I am getting 192kbps with a 68HC11 design, and the HC11 is very slow compared to a 20Mhz PIC?
Sounds odd this low. This is a 68HC11 bit banging the interface, so its a true single chip design!

68hc11 @ 8Mhz = 1MIPS
PIC @ 20Mhz = 20MIPS right?

My 68HC11 does both FAT32 and FAT16 on CF or HD at 192Kbps max.

I have a AT90S4414 design doing the same at full 320kbps and thats all done in less than 256 bytes ram!

Richard.


>>  Hi Brusque,

>>  Just too let you know, You can build your own player with a PIC! Not
>>  simple,
>>  but can be done.

>>  I'm nearing the end of a development process for a client where I've made
>>  an
>>  MP3 player using a PIC16F877 (20MHz) a Compact Flash card for storage
>>  (reading FAT16) streaming the MP3 data to a STA013 mpeg decoder IC. I've
>>  written all the code in C, no optimisation and it happily plays 128Kbps
>>  MP3s
>>  which are more then good enough for a car sound system and much better
>>  then
>>  my clients needs.

>>  A 64MB CF card will hold about a CD's worth at the 128Kbps data rate and
>>  you
>>  can get bigger ones and IBM micro-drives that pretend to be CF cards in
>>  the
>>  1GB range..

>>  Unfortunately, I'm not able to give much detail because it is a commercial
>>  project for a client, but I thought some on the list may be interested to
>>  know it can be done.. :) Others have probably already done it.. :)

>>  If you have any specific questions about it I'll try to answer them..

>>  Actually If anyone is interested I might be able to adapt this system (if
>>  my
>>  client agrees) to a kit so you can build your own car MP3 player.. It is
>>  all
>>  surface mount though :) Any takers?

>>  Cheers,
>>  Ash

>>  ---
>>  Ashley Roll
>>  Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd
>>  http://www.digitalnemesis.com
>>  Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718




>>  > {Original Message removed}

2002\02\11@130937 by smerchock, Steve
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Richard,

The PIC has a clock frequency of 20MHz which
gives you around 5 MIPS. Each instruction takes
about 4 clock cycles (roughly).

Best regards,
Steve


{Original Message removed}

2002\02\11@134452 by Patrick J

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----- Original Message -----
>Only 128kbps, I am getting 192kbps with a 68HC11 design, and the HC11
>is very slow compared to a 20Mhz PIC?
>68hc11 @ 8Mhz = 1MIPS
>PIC @ 20Mhz = 20MIPS right?

not quite, a PIC takes 4 clock cycles to do one instruction so:
20 MHz /4 = 5 MIPS
I have no idea how many clockcycles the 68HC11 needs
for 1 instruction...

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2002\02\11@151238 by Eoin Ross

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The website lists drivers for the following - I am presuming the 3.11 drivers will work for DOS

Prob  best to get in touch with them to find out for sure.


VGA
Win95/98/NT, OS2, Win2000, Linux
LAN
Novell 3.X/4.X, Win95/98/NT, Win2000, OS2 Linux NDIS MSLAN, Linux
Audio
Win2000, Win95/98/NT, Win 3.1, OS2


>>> spamBeGoneebrusqueSTOPspamspamEraseMETERRA.COM.BR 02/11/02 12:33PM >>>
Hello Eoin,

>http://www.abiatech.com/fb2650.htm
>5.25" Socket 370 w/ 4 Com ports, VGA/LCD, 2 10/100 LANs, Audio, TV I/O,
DOC, USB, 1 PCI >slot, $288.40 - need CPU, Power supply, HDD

   I've seen this CPUs have "On board ESS1938 chipset build-in 3D sound
system". Will this work in DOS? Emulate an SB16? Worse yet, have agood sound
quality???

   Thank you very much.

   Best regards,

   Brusque

-----------------------------------
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Research and Development
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2002\02\11@162511 by Jinx

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> I have no idea how many clockcycles the 68HC11 needs
> for 1 instruction...

Anywhere from 2 (NOP) to 11 (MUL), but most are 3,4,5

The architecture is completely different. Although the
instruction set is large compared with the PIC and one
68xx instruction can do the work of a PIC routine, on
balance I'd say the PIC is faster for "average" s/w. AVR
is a good blend of PIC speed and Mot instruction set

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2002\02\11@163334 by Jinx

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> balance I'd say the PIC is faster for "average" s/w. AVR
> is a good blend of PIC speed and Mot instruction set
>

Number of op-codes, not actual Mot instructions of course

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2002\02\11@164749 by Richard Sloan

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Right, AVR's are fast 8Mhz clock = almost 8MIPS!, most OP codes = 1 cycle

68HC11 has some really nasty OP codes taking as much as 41, 68HC11 running on 8Mhz clock gives 2Mhz instruction rate, most OP codes are 4-5 so MIPS = 2,000,000 / 4.5 = 450KIPS! 0.5MIPS, its slow! Very robust OP codes compared to PIC, AVR is the best of both worlds.

R.

>>  > balance I'd say the PIC is faster for "average" s/w. AVR
>>  > is a good blend of PIC speed and Mot instruction set
>>  >

>>  Number of op-codes, not actual Mot instructions of course

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2002\02\11@200852 by Ashley Roll

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Hi Richard,

Thanks for the info.

Basically like other people have said it is more like 5 MIPS.. however my
code is "well structured" C, and in no way optimised yet. Actually for this
project I'll probably not bother to do any optimisation - This is probably
twice the rate I actually need :) If I get time I'll do it, but basically
I'm running out of that rapidly :)

I also have a bunch of other things going on in the PIC as well for this
application.

Actually, I've got an annoying glitch that you may be able to help with. I
seen to be unable to flush the buffer in the STA013, so that if I stop
playback, wait awhile and start a new song, I get a burst of sound that
seems to be what was left of the previous song. Any ideas on how to clear
the buffer? Has or Does this happen with your version?

Cheers,
Ash.


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Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd
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Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718




> {Original Message removed}

2002\02\11@234749 by Richard Sloan

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I use the MAS3507, but I would think the method to clear would be to keep clocking in say zeros or ones and get rid of the old data, I have never seen this in my designs with the MAS. I would assume as soon as the STA013 sees no syncs in the data stream you would be "cleared" Also I can send a software reset command over control port that would clear this issue if it were to happen on the MAS

Richard.

>>  Hi Richard,

>>  Thanks for the info.

>>  Basically like other people have said it is more like 5 MIPS.. however my
>>  code is "well structured" C, and in no way optimised yet. Actually for
>>  this
>>  project I'll probably not bother to do any optimisation - This is probably
>>  twice the rate I actually need :) If I get time I'll do it, but basically
>>  I'm running out of that rapidly :)

>>  I also have a bunch of other things going on in the PIC as well for this
>>  application.

>>  Actually, I've got an annoying glitch that you may be able to help with. I
>>  seen to be unable to flush the buffer in the STA013, so that if I stop
>>  playback, wait awhile and start a new song, I get a burst of sound that
>>  seems to be what was left of the previous song. Any ideas on how to clear
>>  the buffer? Has or Does this happen with your version?

>>  Cheers,
>>  Ash.


>>  ---
>>  Ashley Roll
>>  Digital Nemesis Pty Ltd
>>  http://www.digitalnemesis.com
>>  Mobile: +61 (0)417 705 718




>>  > {Original Message removed}

2002\02\12@012410 by David VanHorn

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At 04:43 PM 2/11/02 -0500, Richard Sloan wrote:
>Right, AVR's are fast 8Mhz clock = almost 8MIPS!, most OP codes = 1 cycle

16 MHz! Mega-128.
I'm doing a high performance thermal line printer with them at the moment.

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2002\02\12@113346 by Richard Sloan

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These scream!

Original 4414 parts were meant to do 20Mhz, but Atmel never got them to work 100% at that frequency and ended up at 8Mhz.... too bad.

R.

>>  At 04:43 PM 2/11/02 -0500, Richard Sloan wrote:
>>  >Right, AVR's are fast 8Mhz clock = almost 8MIPS!, most OP codes = 1 cycle

>>  16 MHz! Mega-128.
>>  I'm doing a high performance thermal line printer with them at the moment.

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2002\02\13@114344 by Edson Brusque

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Hello Players,

Bob Blick wrote:
> DOS? Yuck! Don't you have a hard drive size limit and 8.3 names? I
> have full code(PC side and PIC side) if you want to use Linux and a
> serial port.
>
> There are some 486 boards that just plain will not work, something
> about DMA really interferes with being an MP3 player. I'd suggest an
> LPX-format socket-7 motherboard, you can get them for $15 and
> have onboard good-quality sound, video, etc, in a small format.

   right now, I'm starting to think about Linux. The problem with DOS seens
to be lack of support for new technologies. There's motherboards with the
AC97 codec, that I though could have decent-quality sound optput. Also, the
onboard ethernet would be very usefull, but will be hard to use these
resources on DOS. Linux, on other side, seens to have drives for these
things.

   Sorry, what's "LPX" format motherboard???

   So, my project requirements seens to have changed.

Byron A Jeff wrote:
>Of course it'll have a PIC based, serial interfaced, control panel.
>Eventually it'll interface to a yet to be written program that will
>interface with a set of scripts that I've written to control the play
>mix on my home PC MP3 player. Commands such as skip, repeat, and find
>are already in the arsenal. Normal mode is to play a continuous random
>playlist.

   I'm currently doing a simple RS232 terminal with a PIC16F628, a 2x40 LCD
and 16 keys. I'll pretend to use this to control the MP3Player. Just 4 wires
GND, 5V, TX and RX between the system case and the control panel/terminal.

Byron A Jeff wrote:
>    Edson, I haven't yet found a cost effective SBC for this project. My
>small box is a Baby-AT Socket 7 MB with onboard sound, video, and
>ethernet, using a 450 Mhz AMD K6. It's mounted in a 11x16x2 inch
>organizing case with the removable buckets. This houses the MB,
>13GB HD, and the zip. The power supply will be external to the case.

   A motherboard similar to the one you're using seens to cost about
US$80,00 here in Brazil. Maybe I could find an used one cheaper with
processor and some memory.

   I'm also melting some neurones thinking about the PSU...

Byron A Jeff wrote:
>The last interesting item which I haven't implemented yet is LinuxBIOS.
>Essentially you flash a modified Linux kernel onto the motherboard which
>boots directly without all the pesky POST/memory sequences that standard
>BIOSes have. Boots to a running state in less than 10 seconds and can be
>powered down with impunity. Check it out at http://www.linuxbios.org.

   This seens to be very interesting. Please tell us when you got it
working.

Bob Blick wrote:
>I certainly see the point of a DOS player, but the really cool ones use
>Linux :)

   What software are you using for this? I've seen a player these days for
Linux I think is called XMMS, it's the one you're using? How to make it
interface with keys and LCD on a COM port?

   Best regards,

   Brusque

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2002\02\13@115155 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>    right now, I'm starting to think about Linux. The problem with DOS
>seens to be lack of support for new technologies. There's motherboards with the
>AC97 codec, that I though could have decent-quality sound optput. Also, the
>onboard ethernet would be very usefull, but will be hard to use these
>resources on DOS. Linux, on other side, seens to have drives for these
>things.

       Have you TRIED to do that? There are drivers for everything for DOS. Been there, done that! :o)


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2002\02\13@121405 by Bob Blick

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On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Edson Brusque wrote:
>
>     Sorry, what's "LPX" format motherboard???
>

Lots of computers had them. One slot that is meant for a riser card,
carries PCI and ISA signals(and an ISA card will plug and run in it
without a riser). The board I liked is the Intel RU430HX because it is 8
inches square, has onboard video(S3 Virge) and Yamaha audio, plus all the
usual ports. Some versions of it have USB also. The audio is very good
quality. Takes Socket 7 Pentiums. You can find them new still, from
closeout dealers for about 15 or 20 $US.

I plan to make one into a player for my wife's car. I have a USB ethernet
adapter so I can update it without needing any cards, so the whole package
can be 9 inches or less square by 2 inches high.

I'm working on a web page to describe all this, I'll put code and
schematics there too.

Cheerful regards,

Bob Blick

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2002\02\13@132433 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>On Wed, 13 Feb 2002, Edson Brusque wrote:
>>     Sorry, what's "LPX" format motherboard???
>Lots of computers had them. One slot that is meant for a riser card,
>carries PCI and ISA signals(and an ISA card will plug and run in it
>without a riser). The board I liked is the Intel RU430HX because it is 8
>inches square, has onboard video(S3 Virge) and Yamaha audio, plus all the
>usual ports. Some versions of it have USB also. The audio is very good
>quality. Takes Socket 7 Pentiums. You can find them new still, from
>closeout dealers for about 15 or 20 $US.

       Edson, this one is simple: Remember that crap computers made by Acer and Unisys some time ago in Brazil? That 486 with white square boxes, all made of plastic? That boards are LPX. One big board with everything, and a riser board with the ISA and PCI connectors. COMPAQ also used that ones.


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2002\02\13@141902 by michael brown

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Edson Brusque" <.....ebrusquespam_OUTspamTERRA.COM.BR>
To: <TakeThisOuTPICLIST.....spamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!)


{Quote hidden}

seens

Cool, smart move.  ;-)  It will work good.  I actually saw a board on the
internet recently (strongarm processor I believe) that actually had a UDMA
IDE controller on board and an actual reserved area on the circuit board for
attaching a hard drive.  Of course, it's way expensive, but ideal for an mp3
player.

> to be lack of support for new technologies. There's motherboards with the
> AC97 codec, that I though could have decent-quality sound optput. Also,
the
> onboard ethernet would be very usefull, but will be hard to use these
> resources on DOS. Linux, on other side, seens to have drives for these
> things.
>
>     Sorry, what's "LPX" format motherboard???

Like the ones that come in low-profile desktops (read as proprietary) that
use a "riser" card system for add-on adapter cards.  They're kinda big, but
a whole lot cheaper than SBC's tend to be.  You will have to supply all the
weird pc voltages (+5, -5(?), +12, -12).  No problem if you have access to
ac mains, just use a pc supply (real cheap).

>     So, my project requirements seens to have changed.

I suspect this is normal.  ;-D

> Byron A Jeff wrote:
> >Of course it'll have a PIC based, serial interfaced, control panel.
> >Eventually it'll interface to a yet to be written program that will
> >interface with a set of scripts that I've written to control the play
> >mix on my home PC MP3 player. Commands such as skip, repeat, and find
> >are already in the arsenal. Normal mode is to play a continuous random
> >playlist.
>
>     I'm currently doing a simple RS232 terminal with a PIC16F628, a 2x40
LCD
> and 16 keys. I'll pretend to use this to control the MP3Player. Just 4
wires
> GND, 5V, TX and RX between the system case and the control panel/terminal.

Should be good enough.

{Quote hidden}

for
> Linux I think is called XMMS, it's the one you're using? How to make it
> interface with keys and LCD on a COM port?
>
>     Best regards,
>
>     Brusque

michael brown

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2002\02\13@180701 by Edson Brusque

face
flavicon
face
Hello,

> Cool, smart move.  ;-)  It will work good.  I actually saw a board on the
> internet recently (strongarm processor I believe) that actually had a UDMA
> IDE controller on board and an actual reserved area on the circuit board
for
> attaching a hard drive.  Of course, it's way expensive, but ideal for an
mp3
> player.

   while we're on the MOBOs and CPUs subject, someone here knows prices and
stuff about the ZFLinux CPUs series? It seens to be very good, but have
someone used it actually? How much each processor costs? How hard it's to
actually put it on a PCB?

   Best regards,

   Brusque

-----------------------------------
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Research and Development
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Blumenau  -  SC  -  Brazil
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2002\02\13@183349 by Mark Samuels

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I did a design with a ZFLinux MachZ SOC-MZP-Q-1, which is under $50.  The
developer documentation and everything was great.  The only issue with
getting it on a PCB is the fact that it's a BGA package, which my company
doesn't have in-house facilities to mount, so we had to send them out.

-Mark

At 09:03 PM 2/13/02 -0300, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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ARMA Design
Tel:(858) 373-1320
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2002\02\13@192005 by Edson Brusque

face
flavicon
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Hello Mark,

> I did a design with a ZFLinux MachZ SOC-MZP-Q-1, which is under $50.  The
> developer documentation and everything was great.  The only issue with
> getting it on a PCB is the fact that it's a BGA package, which my company
> doesn't have in-house facilities to mount, so we had to send them out.

   could you please give more details? Performance of the chip? What you
have to put/create around it (VGA controllers, USB anything, connectors, ISA
bus, PCB bus, etc)?

   I know the datasheets tell it all, but it's good to hear from who have
used it in the real world. :)

   Thank you,

   Brusque

-----------------------------------
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2002\02\13@201449 by Mark Samuels

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The application is battery powered, so I only have the MachZ running at
33MHz, and running some DOS applications.
As far as support circuitry, there really isn't that much!  The great thing
about the part is the fact that everything is integrated.  VGA is literally
pins out of the part. Same with PCI, ISA, IDE, RAM, USB,
serial/parallel.  Pretty much only passive components needed.
Since then, I did another design with another SOC, National Semiconductor's
Geode processor, which is also a fully integrated part, except it's a
pentium core, and runs up to 300MHz!

-Mark

At 10:18 PM 2/13/02 -0300, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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ARMA Design
Tel:(858) 373-1320
Fax:(858) 373-1325
Email: .....markspamRemoveMEarmanet.com
Web: http://www.armanet.com



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2002\02\14@084133 by Gary Crum

picon face
instead of just sticking a desktop computer in your car you might want to
look into the Lart
it's' a Strongarm based embedded computer that will run linux

I guess there are some people on their email list that are planning on
ordering PCB's soon
I looked into building one a while ago, but never did
I think someone did a new-design, that uses newer memory and the latest
strongarm

here's the link to there web site:
http://www.lart.tudelft.nl/

"The LART is a small yet powerful embedded computer capable of running
Linux. Its performance is around 250 MIPS while consuming less than 1 Watt
of power. In a standard configuration it holds 32MB DRAM and 4MB Flash ROM,
which is sufficient for a Linux kernel and a sizeable ramdisk image"

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2002\02\14@095319 by michael brown

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Crum"
> Subject: Re: [EE]: Car MP3 player. (oh no, again!!!)


> instead of just sticking a desktop computer in your car you might want to
> look into the Lart
> it's' a Strongarm based embedded computer that will run linux

I like what I see out there.  I'm looking at buying a CerfCube (3"x3"x3")
right now.  It's strongarm based also. 32mbram, 16mb flash, 3 serials,
10BaseT ethernet, USB type "B" :-(  Check it out here: http://www.cerfcube.com
Seems to be a nice linux distro.  I liked what I saw so much, I'm gonna send
them a resume.  ;-)

> I guess there are some people on their email list that are planning on
> ordering PCB's soon

Where can you get these, and how much do they cost?  From the web site it
looked to be a "roll your own" project.  Since I can't solder SMT stuff, can
you get the boards pre-populated?  I can handle "normal" soldering (such as
mini-din connectors), but SMT is out of the question for me.
;-D

I hope this is not getting too far "off topic".  I most certainly would use
PIC-type micro's along with my SBC endeavors.  They're a match made in
heaven.  It's all EE anywho.

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2002\02\14@103932 by Gary Crum

picon face
> Where can you get these, and how much do they cost?

I'm not exactly sure what they have decided to do
-Bareboards or Populated?
I havn't been monitoring the list much, do to my limited time

but I think they were going to populate the "hard to do" stuff
 ---- like the SA-1110  (which is only available in BGA....hard for the DIY
guy/gal)

As for cost, sadly, I don't think they came up with a price yet

The board they are putting together is a modified lart.  The original
Lart used the SA-1100 (which uses a hard to find EDODRAM)
but the new Lart (Ballon2 or something like that) uses SDRAM

so I think it will be cheaper than the original.

BUT, Alphea 1  (  http://www.aleph1.co.uk/armlinux/index.html )
has a development kit  (really expensive):

"LART package costs GBP440, and KSB costs GBP218, and Ethernet costs GBP120
all including air postage. Add GBP35 for carriage by courier service rather
than air post. These prices EXCLUDE British tax: in Britain add 17.5% VAT "

When I looked into making one, the hardest thing was to get
the PCB's in small qtys somewhat cheap.
I think it's a 6 layer board.  Since they are doing a batch of around a100
PCBs I think they were able to get the cost down

goodluck
g



{Original Message removed}

2002\02\14@105332 by Gary Crum

picon face
Michael:
I just looked at the cerfpod....  pretty cool....
(I like there cerfPDA too but it's $2500...ouch)

have you thought about trying the iOpener
it's a netappliance that used to sell for $100....(REALLY cheap)
thinking they would get money from being your ISP (wrong!)
then people hacked it into a Linux Box

my friend has one with linux on it...pretty nice
you can find them on ebay for about the original price
....I guess some people thought they where hackers
...but then they must have found out it's a little harder than in the movies
...so they gave up on it

check out http://www.adamlotz.com/iopener.html






{Original Message removed}

2002\02\14@120850 by michael brown

flavicon
face
Gary said:

> Michael:
> I just looked at the cerfpod....  pretty cool....
> (I like there cerfPDA too but it's $2500...ouch)

Yeah, they're pretty proud of those.  The CerfPod is pretty neat (but
expensive) too.

> have you thought about trying the iOpener
> it's a netappliance that used to sell for $100....(REALLY cheap)
> thinking they would get money from being your ISP (wrong!)
> then people hacked it into a Linux Box

Found some, they look pretty neat.  Allot of nice stuff for under $100.00.
Looks like some real fun.  Too bad it needs 19 volts though, that makes it
tough(er) to put in a car.

> my friend has one with linux on it...pretty nice
> you can find them on ebay for about the original price
> ....I guess some people thought they where hackers
> ...but then they must have found out it's a little harder than in the
movies
> ...so they gave up on it
>
> check out http://www.adamlotz.com/iopener.html

I did, pretty neat!  I am wondering what the issue is about having a "glued
in" bios chip.  It sounds like you don't need to do anything to the bios to
make the thing work as a simple pc.  Here is a link I found on e-bay:
http://neartowntech.com/kittman/iopener/

michael brown

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2002\02\14@124054 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
This is all very interesting but what about power consumption and heat ?
Don't these things require serious thermal design to make them work inside
a closed box (especially the Geode) ? Last time I checked a chip running
at 300MHz requires serious cooling arrangements to keep it under 70C at
all times. Do they use a very low core voltage internally to avoid
producting heat ?

Peter

Mark Samuels wrote:

The application is battery powered, so I only have the MachZ running at
33MHz, and running some DOS applications. As far as support circuitry,
there really isn't that much!  The great thing about the part is the fact
that everything is integrated.  VGA is literally pins out of the part.
Same with PCI, ISA, IDE, RAM, USB, serial/parallel.  Pretty much only
passive components needed. Since then, I did another design with another
SOC, National Semiconductor's Geode processor, which is also a fully
integrated part, except it's a pentium core, and runs up to 300MHz!

-Mark

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2002\02\14@125509 by Mark Samuels

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Very true!!
On the geode design, we're actually running the part at <only> 233 MHz, and
the core voltage is 1.8V.  Things still get pretty hot inside the box, but
it's primarily from sources other than the geode (LCD backlight,
mostly).  We've been able to keep everything within spec with just venting
and heat sinking, no active cooling.

-Mark

At 07:01 PM 2/14/02 +0200, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

-------------------------------------------
Mark Samuels
ARMA Design
Tel:(858) 373-1320
Fax:(858) 373-1325
Email: @spam@markRemoveMEspamEraseMEarmanet.com
Web: http://www.armanet.com



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2002\02\14@125520 by Dal Wheeler

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----- Original Message -----
From: michael brown <@spam@n5qmgspam_OUTspam.....AMSAT.ORG>
> > have you thought about trying the iOpener
> > it's a netappliance that used to sell for $100....(REALLY cheap)
> > thinking they would get money from being your ISP (wrong!)
> > then people hacked it into a Linux Box
>
> Found some, they look pretty neat.  Allot of nice stuff for under $100.00.
> Looks like some real fun.  Too bad it needs 19 volts though, that makes it
> tough(er) to put in a car.

Got one last year (before they changed the EULA and pricing); pretty cool,
but a bit slow.  Still trying to get my usb ethernet to work under a small
distro of linux.  I've toyed with the idea of making it into a "portable"
o'scope.

The 19v input isn't the real problem for a car mp3 system...  The screen
probably won't stand up to thermal cycling in that environment.  And the
sound quality isn't all that hot; even picking the signals directly off the
board.

You'd be better off hacking an old socket 7 MB and running and extended temp
LCD + controls out to your dash.



> I did, pretty neat!  I am wondering what the issue is about having a
"glued
> in" bios chip.  It sounds like you don't need to do anything to the bios
to
> make the thing work as a simple pc.  Here is a link I found on e-bay:
> http://neartowntech.com/kittman/iopener/

When they found users not using them as they intended they modified the
subsequent bios releases to inhibit adding additional hardware and
reconfiguring the iopener.  People got around this by reflashing the bios to
the older version.  Netpliance started gluing the flash in the socket, so
newer iopeners often ended up with cracked sockets when removing, requiring
soldering a new surface mount socket in its place (provided you didn't pull
up board traces.)  On the whole it's a bit much work for something that is
really only marginal hardware anyway.

It might make a good indoor mp3 player if you used an external USB sound
driver...

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2002\02\14@224147 by Keith Christopher

picon face
Told you it could be done with a PIC and the Micronas mp3 decoder.

Taken from the WWW site http://www.slimdevices.com
  Display: Noritake 40x2 VFD
  CPU: Microchip PIC16F877 microcontroller
  Ethernet controller: Crystal CS8900A 10Mbps embedded Ethernet chip
  DMA controller: proprietary logic, Xilinx XC95144XL
  MP3 decoder: Micronas MAS3507D
  DAC: Crystal CS4334, 16-bit 44Khz
  Buffer RAM: 1Mb (8 seconds at 128Kbps)
  ROM: Rewritable flash program memory, EEPROM configuration memory
  IR: Standard 40Khz IR receiver
  Power supply: comes with 5V 1600mA power supply, player uses 700ma (max)
Protocols
  DHCP, ARP, IP, ICMP, UDP
  Support for subnets/gateways (see documentation section on WANs)
  Open UDP-based streaming and control protocols
Firmware
  Open-source, high-speed, embedded IP protocol stack
  Written entirely in assembler, for performance and compactness
  General-purpose architecture offloads most of the application to the server side - new features can be added without making changes to the low-level firmware (protocols, device drivers)
  Integrated boot-loader program includes its own copy of the IP stack and necessary drivers, so that the entire MP3 player application may be reinstalled over the network.



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2002\02\15@025928 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>have you thought about trying the iOpener
>it's a netappliance that used to sell for $100....(REALLY cheap)
>thinking they would get money from being your ISP (wrong!)
>then people hacked it into a Linux Box

       Has anyone heard about "easybox" from Daewoo? Seems to be a very hackable device, even with an ISA slot!


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2002\02\15@042411 by Octavio P Nogueira

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>         Has anyone heard about "easybox" from Daewoo? Seems to be a very
hackable device, even with an ISA slot!

I've worked with one once, I developed a cellphone
modem adapter for it.

Friendly Regards

Octavio Nogueira
===================================================
.....nogueiraRemoveMEspampropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
ProPic tools - low cost PIC programmer and emulator
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===================================================

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