Searching \ for '[EE]: Bulb Life, X-10 turn-on would seem to up lif' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=bulb+life+turn+would
Search entire site for: 'Bulb Life, X-10 turn-on would seem to up lif'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[EE]: Bulb Life, X-10 turn-on would seem to up lif'
2001\07\03@090655 by Jim

flavicon
face
  "I would turn the lights on using a slow ramp up
   from "dim", I  think the life of any bulb would be
   extended.  Maybe the bulb manufacturers
   "influenced" the design.

I have had *extremely* good luck using the X10
light-switch style controller on a filament style
bulb - going on years now for the same hallway
(leading to the nightime quarters) lamp used daily  ...

I *think* (i.e., not proven and not measured) that a
built-in zero crossover detector is what does the trick
in the X-10 wall switch module.

This allows the bulb to start at *zero* volts on any
given sinusoid versus a possible mid-maxima point where
the peak for a nominal 120 V RMS household US system
is around 170 Volts peak ... *this* no doubt does the
trick in prolonging bulb life

I experimented with the current inrush phenomenon at
turn-on as seen on filament-style lamps years back with
a scope and small-valued series resistor for current
observation. I also investigated what ocurred with a series
diode in place.

With a diode in series one can actually see a distortion in
the sine wave current-profile during the 'on' half cycle as
the filament apparently cools off during the 'off' half cycle and
draws more current during the on half cycle owing to it's
lowered resistance.

Of course, I need not mention the very high currents
occasionally seen when reandomly throwing the swich
to on and happening to catch the incoming AC mains
sinusoid at a maxima.

Jim





{Original Message removed}

2001\07\03@143046 by Barry Gershenfeld

picon face
>I *think* (i.e., not proven and not measured) that a
>built-in zero crossover detector is what does the trick
>in the X-10 wall switch module.
>
>This allows the bulb to start at *zero* volts on any
>given sinusoid versus a possible mid-maxima point where
>the peak for a nominal 120 V RMS household US system
>is around 170 Volts peak ... *this* no doubt does the
>trick in prolonging bulb life

At 60 Hz the filament must heat up pretty fast to not
mind the fact that you reach full voltage in 4 milli-
seconds.  Anyone know how long it takes to heat up
the filament?  (To where it's "warm enough")?

Barry

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2001\07\03@144755 by Jim

flavicon
face
Why is the section of my original message missing that
describes that I observed a *significant* change in the
current waveform between full cycles of 60 Hz line being
appled to a lamp versus what I obeserved when using a
diode in series with the same lamp?

I used that as *evidence* that the filament does cool
sufficiently to change it's resistance characteristics - and
it can do so in the time of one/half cycle.

Did I not convey that idea in my original post?

Also, the fact that I've got a bulb with years on it
*yet* several cycles a day should also  lend credence
to some method or mechanism in the X10 wall-switch module
that prevent a FULL 170 Volts peak from being applied
to a *cold* (amd low resistance) filament at random.

Jim



{Original Message removed}

2001\07\03@152118 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
>I *think* (i.e., not proven and not measured) that a
>built-in zero crossover detector is what does the trick
>in the X-10 wall switch module.

http://www.edcheung.com/automa/circuit.htm

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2001\07\03@160554 by Dan Larson
flavicon
face
On Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:47:42 -0500, Jim wrote:

>Why is the section of my original message missing that
>describes that I observed a *significant* change in the
>current waveform between full cycles of 60 Hz line being
>appled to a lamp versus what I obeserved when using a
>diode in series with the same lamp?
>
>I used that as *evidence* that the filament does cool
>sufficiently to change it's resistance characteristics - and
>it can do so in the time of one/half cycle.
>
>Did I not convey that idea in my original post?
>
>Also, the fact that I've got a bulb with years on it
>*yet* several cycles a day should also  lend credence
>to some method or mechanism in the X10 wall-switch module
>that prevent a FULL 170 Volts peak from being applied
>to a *cold* (amd low resistance) filament at random.

... And, no doubt, protecting the itty-bitty parts inside <G>.

I've taken them apart and marveled at why the don't go dead
sooner than they do! Seems that I frequently need to unplug
and plug back in some lamp modules and even more so
with the RF reciever modules, to get them to act normally again.

Dan

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2001\07\03@214135 by Barry Gershenfeld

picon face
>Why is the section of my original message missing that
>describes that I observed a *significant* change in the
>current waveform between full cycles of 60 Hz line being
>appled to a lamp versus what I obeserved when using a
>diode in series with the same lamp?

Well, I actually did miss the point, as you suggested, and
for several reasons. One is the way I handle messages.   I don't
always pay 100% attention, since there are so many
messages to read.  Another is that I generally read all
the messages in a thread before I write a reply.  In this
case I knew that somewhere, someone had done some
actual measurements but I didn't remember who. And
in my haste to trim the quoted part I didn't notice that
it was you.

On the other hand, what you reported was about the
way the filament cooled.  My question was about how
it heated.  They're related but they're not the same.
Also we both seem to think you get a half-cycle for
cooling.  I think for turn-on-at-zero you get a
quarter cycle the first time.
Further, if we look at what you said here,

>describes that I observed a *significant* change in the

and compare to the actual quote,

>With a diode in series one can actually see a distortion in

I know it could be splitting hairs, but one implies "Yeah,
you can see it" while the other implies "Wow! It's obvious!"
It just didn't sound like that big a difference to me.
Remember people are claiming a 60W bulb eats 1KW on the
first cycle...

I wasn't questioning your results and I don't question
that your bulbs are lasting longer.   But I was looking
for some evidence about the turn-on.  If you were
able to measure the current you should be able to
see the large inrush current when it's turned on,
and tell us some interesting things about that.

Still wondering,

Barry

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2001\07\03@214550 by Barry Gershenfeld

picon face
>Seems that I frequently need to unplug
>and plug back in some lamp modules and even more so
>with the RF reciever modules, to get them to act normally again.
>
>Dan
>

Ummm...advice to all EE's and possibly others.  Get a radio and
listen to it.   It's really remarkable how many times I have
"accidentally" discovered something about a circuit just from
what comes over the radio.  And I don't mean I was fishing
around for a signal.  I was just using it to listen to
radio stations.

Anyway, it just so happens that this thing happened to me, yet
again, recently when I put in a ("Firecracker") X-10 remote
control setup in my house.  I noted with some amusement that
I could hear the signal coming out of the RF module on my
radio.  BTW, the radio itself wasn't connected to any X-10
module.  And then I discovered some kind of "bug" where the
RF module gets "stuck".   It happens when I try to dim
my lamp.  On/Off works ok but if it gets stuck in the
dim sequence it just keeps transmitting until I unplug it.
Or I can wait awhile and it will stop eventually. Or I
can get right up on it with the remote and somehow
interrupt it.  Or I can fiddle with the telescoping antenna
and get it to stop.  Sometime by adjusting the antenna I
can get it to not do that.  Usually by putting it at an
inconvenient angle or collapsing it so it doesn't receive
so good anyway.

Just thought I'd mention this in case it helps you figure
out something.   Or maybe someone else knows more about
this.

Barry

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.


2001\07\04@002704 by Bala Chandar

flavicon
face
Hi Jim,

Your theory sounds interesting!

I have been using a lamp module (I modified it for the 240V in India) to
control two 60W bulbs for the past one and a half years. I don't think
there is significant difference between a lamp module and a wall switch
module (both from X10) in terms of their circuitry to control an
incandescent lamp.

Do you think an X10 lamp module also will prolong the life of a bulb?

Regards,
Bala



> {Original Message removed}

2001\07\04@004910 by Bala Chandar

flavicon
face
Hi Barry,

The problem you have described in which the X10 transceiver sometimes
sends a continuous stream of dim signals on the powerline is referred to
as the "Endless dim syndrome"!

Different solutions have been suggested for this malady - from adjusting
the length of the telescopic antenna to reducing the sensitivity of the
RF receiver to changing the value of a resistor in the RF daughter card
in the transceiver (TM751) from 1K to 3.9K.

If you are interested in solving the problem yourself, you will find
this site highly informative about X10 devices:
http://www.geocities.com/ido_bartana (There is an underscore after ido)

Regards,
Bala


> {Original Message removed}

2001\07\04@093723 by Jim

flavicon
face
Barry,

As I remember it - the deviation of the shape of the current
(as seen on the scope) from normal sinusoidal 'curve' was
readily apparent when a diode was placed in series with a
bulb. The one thing I didn't do (and now wish I had done)
was calculate the "spot" or instantaneous R the bulb presented
at critical points such as at the peak of the applied voltage
sinusoid, the 10% applied voltage point before and after
the zero cross over point, etc.

I should repeat the same lamp experiments today with a
digi-scope - and this time record the waveform for further
analysis such as computing the "dynamic resistance" of the
filament as it changes over a complete cycle. This same
experiment should also be performed for a new series-of-
cycles (as if I had turned the lamp on for the first time that
day) starting at a zero crossover point. The experiment should
furthermore be performed on several bulbs from different lots
from the same manufacturer, then other tests involving other
manufacturers as well ... then come the 'tests over life' on each
bulb whose original performance characteristics were recorded
in their infancy ...

Did I mention that I should also measure light-output and record
for future analysis? That would go without saying I guess. <grin>

Alas, years ago, when I first looked at this problem all I had
to work with was a an old bi-stable Tek storage scope of the
564 series - and that lacked data-record capability save the
'usual' Polaroid camera that slipped over the CRT bezel ...

The SS/LED lamps should be on the market at competitive prices
before I *ever* get a chance to go that far, however!!

Jim

PS. I'm a big user of the SS flourescent (sp?) lamps as others
here have also indicated, save for about 3 or 4 incadescent lamps
where they are under the control of X10 modules  - or the garage/
external lighting where the flourescents (sp?) 'come-up' slowly
when the ambient is cold.



{Original Message removed}

2001\07\04@110609 by Jim

flavicon
face
Bala,

I now think that the zero-crossover start of an incandescent (sp?)
bulb does more to prolong bulb life than any other means.

I haven't done the math of this technique versus, say, Roman's
47R (240 V RMS mains) method and the moderating effect this has
on the large inrush (surge) current that is blamed for early filament
death, but I am pleased with the life I have seen to-date on one
bulb whose longevity I have witnessed while under the lone, sole
control of a wall-switch X10 module. Table lamps can sometimes
get moved around and may not always have been under the control
of an X10 module, but a wall/ceiling fixture and a wall-light switch
normally aren't subject to rearrangement at will and the possible
direct connection to the AC mains without an X10 control.

So the wall/hallway fixture with it's corresponding long-lived bulb
has been in a stable, controlled configuration for contiguous years
now. Early on I didn't take notice that bulb life was improved, but
in 20/20 retrospective hindsight that appears to be the case!

Inspecting the schematic for the lamp module, it appears to
be the same as the wall-switch module. Both modules appear
to have the capability of sensing the zero volt crossover point -
and that is key to doing zero-cross over turn-on (I state the
obvious only for completeness sake!).

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bala Chandar" <spam_OUTBala.ChandarTakeThisOuTspamAVENTIS.COM>
To: <.....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 11:05 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Bulb Life, X-10 turn-on would seem to up life


Hi Jim,

Your theory sounds interesting!

I have been using a lamp module (I modified it for the 240V in India) to
control two 60W bulbs for the past one and a half years. I don't think
there is significant difference between a lamp module and a wall switch
module (both from X10) in terms of their circuitry to control an
incandescent lamp.

Do you think an X10 lamp module also will prolong the life of a bulb?

Regards,
Bala



> {Original Message removed}

2001\07\05@051306 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Jim wrote:
>
> Bala,
>
> I now think that the zero-crossover start of an incandescent (sp?)
> bulb does more to prolong bulb life than any other means.
>
> I haven't done the math of this technique versus, say, Roman's
> 47R (240 V RMS mains) method and the moderating effect this has
> on the large inrush (surge) current that is blamed for early filament
> death, but I am pleased with the life I have seen to-date on one
> bulb whose longevity I have witnessed while under the lone, sole
> control of a wall-switch X10 module.


Jim, I agree zero-crossing bulb starting is a step
in the right direction, but also take into account
that in the 240vac mains countries we have many times
the bulb failures in 120vac countries. Again the
cold start power with a 240v bulb is MUCH worse than
the same size 120v bulb. Maybe a "soft start" over
a few seconds would be the answer??

I really do have a cupboard full of light bulbs
and bulbs blow every few weeks. I have started using
high-eff fluoros, but again with 240v mains these
tend to die pretty quick, usually the power semis
in them.
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
piclist-unsubscribe-requestspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu


2001\07\05@055742 by Jinx

face picon face
> I really do have a cupboard full of light bulbs
> and bulbs blow every few weeks
> Roman

Here's a thought. Why not put resistors in series with them ? ;-))

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
.....piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspam.....mitvma.mit.edu


2001\07\05@071510 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
Roman Black wrote:

>that in the 240vac mains countries we have many times
>the bulb failures in 120vac countries. Again the
>cold start power with a 240v bulb is MUCH worse than
>the same size 120v bulb.

For the same wattage, the current is half, so equal to the wire size.

But, the lower voltage, the thicker the wire, and so the wear of atoms boiling around is less for a lower voltage lamp.  If you want really long life of incandescent lamp, use low voltage lamps so the incandescent wire is thick, and halogen types as the boiled away atoms more efficiently is back deposited to the wire.

Also see i.e the OSRAM web page.

>I really do have a cupboard full of light bulbs
>and bulbs blow every few weeks. I have started using
>high-eff fluoros, but again with 240v mains these
>tend to die pretty quick, usually the power semis
>in them.

Probably just a badly designed brand.  See my previous post.

I have designed power supplies, and 240VAC really is no problem.
Higher voltage yes, but lower current, and it mostly is th ecurrent thet leads to heat, and heat leads to wear.  It is just a matter of correct design.

Most countries use 220..230..240 volts demestic, and there is reason for it.
In Sweden we left 110..127V systems in beginning of last century.

/Morgan

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu


2001\07\05@090739 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> For the same wattage, the current is half, so equal to the wire size.

I'm not totally clear what you are trying to say, but it is harder to make a
240V bulb at the same wattage as a 120V bulb.  The 240V bulb must have 4
times the resistance of the 120V bulb to end up with the same wattage.  This
means the bulb manufacturer has two choices, make the filament longer or
thinner.  Thinner makes the filament more fragile and reduces bulb life for
obvious reasons.  Longer spreads the same power over more filament, reducing
its temperature and therefore efficiency, which can be made up for by
thinning the filament...


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, olinspamspam_OUTembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
@spam@piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu


2001\07\05@160523 by Douglas Butler

flavicon
face
To get the same color (temperature) you need the same watts/surface
area.  So at double the voltage you make the wire a little thinner and
longer, therefore more fragile.  The problem is physics, not an evil
conspiracy.

I suppose you could make tubular wire to raise the resistance/surface
area, but that would be tough!

Sherpa Doug

> {Original Message removed}

2001\07\06@042142 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Douglas Butler wrote:
>
> To get the same color (temperature) you need the same watts/surface
> area.  So at double the voltage you make the wire a little thinner and
> longer, therefore more fragile.  The problem is physics, not an evil
> conspiracy.


No, actually it IS an evil conspiracy. If I can add
a 50 cent resistor and get multi-year bulb lifes, but
the bulb manufacturers want to keep selling products
they KNOW fail after a few weeks, it would be insane
to believe that they are not aware of the problem,
and the massive profits that problem brings them.
:o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2001\07\06@080042 by Jim

flavicon
face
  "No, actually it IS an evil conspiracy. If I can add a 50 cent resistor
..."

The *real* conspriacy would involve the government cornering
and controlling (read that as "taxing to death") the "50 cent" resistor
market ...

As it is, you've found a solution - and  you have also found yourself a
market for products to solve that problem - be it special lamp sockets or
special 'lamp line cords' incorporating your recipe for extended 240V
bulb life.

If you are taxed out of buisness via targetted taxes  (or perhaps
'regulated' out of this activity with the stated purpose by the government
being 'safety for the children') - that too would be acceptable evidence of
an 'evil conspiracy' and most likely spear headed in the US by one Hillary
'SS' Clinton.

Now, if you are simply offered an inceredible sum of money for your
product line and your patents - you've just done businesss with Bill
Gates and HE sees a future in what you're doing. In that case, you'd
actually better off not selling - unless you just want to get back to
sleeping  nights ...

Jim

{Original Message removed}

2001\07\06@090620 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> No, actually it IS an evil conspiracy. If I can add
> a 50 cent resistor and get multi-year bulb lifes, but
> the bulb manufacturers want to keep selling products
> they KNOW fail after a few weeks, it would be insane
> to believe that they are not aware of the problem,
> and the massive profits that problem brings them.

The series resistor makes the overall apparatus much less efficient.  There
are "long life" bulbs that have a somewhat less efficient but more durable
filament, sorta like your resistor but designed into the bulb.

There are enough independant bulb manufacturers in the world that if the
series resistor was a good idea and people really wanted to buy it, that
someone would manufacture such a thing.  I think the real solution is to
migrate to different light emitting technologies, which is already
happening.  I think we'll see some interesting changes over the next 10
years.


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, KILLspamolinKILLspamspamembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2001\07\06@102534 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
> > No, actually it IS an evil conspiracy. If I can add
> > a 50 cent resistor and get multi-year bulb lifes, but
> > the bulb manufacturers want to keep selling products
> > they KNOW fail after a few weeks, it would be insane
> > to believe that they are not aware of the problem,
> > and the massive profits that problem brings them.
>
> The series resistor makes the overall apparatus much less efficient.  There
> are "long life" bulbs that have a somewhat less efficient but more durable
> filament, sorta like your resistor but designed into the bulb.


It really only makes the bulb 5% less efficient.
As the bulb filament has a negative coefficient
the resistor only loses a few percent in terms of
energy loss and brightness loss when the bulb is
running. BUT, it has a massive effect on startup
power surge when the filament is cold. So you get
greatly extended bulb life (20x) for very little
efficiency loss.

> There are enough independant bulb manufacturers in the world that if the
> series resistor was a good idea and people really wanted to buy it, that
> someone would manufacture such a thing.

I think this is an "engineers" point of view, as
any bean counter will desperately continue making
bulbs that fail often, knowing full well that the
real profits come from repeated sales, and not from
making everlasting bulbs.


> I think the real solution is to
> migrate to different light emitting technologies, which is already
> happening.  I think we'll see some interesting changes over the next 10
> years.


With this I agree wholeheartedly. It will be a huge
shakeup to the "evil empire" light bulb manufacturers
when led lights come on to the market that last for
10 to 20 years. And use a lot less power per lumen.
How will they possibly cope? End of an era.
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2001\07\06@120408 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Roman Black wrote:

> > I think the real solution is to
> > migrate to different light emitting technologies, which is already
> > happening.  I think we'll see some interesting changes over the next 10
> > years.
>
>
> With this I agree wholeheartedly. It will be a huge
> shakeup to the "evil empire" light bulb manufacturers
> when led lights come on to the market that last for
> 10 to 20 years. And use a lot less power per lumen.
> How will they possibly cope? End of an era.

I'm thinking an EL ceiling would be pretty cool.

Dale
--
A train stops at a train station.  A bus stops at a bus station.
On my desk I have a workstation...

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2001\07\06@124502 by Matt Pobursky

flavicon
face
Roman Black wrote:

>Olin Lathrop wrote:
>>
>> I think the real solution is to
>> migrate to different light emitting technologies, which is already
>> happening.  I think we'll see some interesting changes over the next 10
>> years.
>
>
>With this I agree wholeheartedly. It will be a huge
>shakeup to the "evil empire" light bulb manufacturers
>when led lights come on to the market that last for
>10 to 20 years. And use a lot less power per lumen.
>How will they possibly cope? End of an era.
>-Roman

If the "evil empire" is smart, they'll already have LED lights designed and be
ready to sell LED lights in volume at a significantly lower cost than the
"little guys". However, history has seemed to show that the "evil empires" will
drag out the current technology until every last penny of profits has been
extracted from the consumer (regardless of the consumer's desire for a better
product). There are a few exceptions to this, but for the most part it's the
common operating philosophy for large corporations. They don't adapt to change
very well as they are slow and inefficient to make such changes.

Matt Pobursky
Maximum Performance Systems

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2001\07\06@160612 by Peter Barick

flavicon
face
Matt Pobursky opines:
>>If the "evil empire" is smart, they'll already have LED lights
designed and be
>>ready to sell LED lights in volume at a significantly lower cost than
the
>>"little guys". However, history has seemed to show that the "evil
empires" will
>>drag out the current technology until every last penny of profits has
been
>>extracted from the consumer (regardless of the consumer's desire for
a better
>>product). There are a few exceptions to this, but for the most part
it's the
>>common operating philosophy for large corporations. They don't adapt
to change
>>very well as they are slow and inefficient to make such changes.

That's one take, and a popular one out there. I like to think that what
Matt refers to a "evil[s]" are none other than citizens of Corporate
America and occupy places that I [we] have invested the savings from our
403s and mutual fund investments. And as such, those empires have sole
responsibility to us shareholders first. That *is* our system. Note,
corporations are not entrepreneurs, that's the sword for many of you to
take up. Make that better mouse trap and the world will knock, po$$ibly
beat down, your door.

Note 2: Many corporations by being large and multi-national in scope,
are not expected to fastly change, nor take up ad hoc causes. But many
do come around so as to "please" market conditions and shareholders in
common.

Finally, [and note 3] lacking a "Devine Will," they're about the best
we have for getting our goods and services to our tables. Agree?

Peter  / PIC Newbie

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads


2001\07\07@005045 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Dale Botkin wrote:
>
> On Sat, 7 Jul 2001, Roman Black wrote:
>
> > > I think the real solution is to
> > > migrate to different light emitting technologies, which is already
> > > happening.  I think we'll see some interesting changes over the next 10
> > > years.
> >
> >
> > With this I agree wholeheartedly. It will be a huge
> > shakeup to the "evil empire" light bulb manufacturers
> > when led lights come on to the market that last for
> > 10 to 20 years. And use a lot less power per lumen.
> > How will they possibly cope? End of an era.
>
> I'm thinking an EL ceiling would be pretty cool.


Yep! But then again, EL uses high voltages, into a polymer,
I don't like the chances of ozone or failure, or even
breakdown of the polymer over time.
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2001\07\07@005058 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Butler" <RemoveMEdbutlerTakeThisOuTspamIMETRIX.COM>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 3:56 PM
Subject: Re: [EE]: Bulb Life, X-10 turn-on would seem to up life


{Quote hidden}

How 'bout flattened wire?

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


2001\07\07@005609 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Matt Pobursky wrote:

> >With this I agree wholeheartedly. It will be a huge
> >shakeup to the "evil empire" light bulb manufacturers
> >when led lights come on to the market that last for
> >10 to 20 years. And use a lot less power per lumen.
> >How will they possibly cope? End of an era.
> >-Roman
>
> If the "evil empire" is smart, they'll already have LED lights designed and be
> ready to sell LED lights in volume at a significantly lower cost than the
> "little guys". However, history has seemed to show that the "evil empires" will
> drag out the current technology until every last penny of profits has been
> extracted from the consumer (regardless of the consumer's desire for a better
> product). There are a few exceptions to this, but for the most part it's the
> common operating philosophy for large corporations. They don't adapt to change
> very well as they are slow and inefficient to make such changes.


So you see a similar situation to the oil cartels,
buying up patents on new technology like hydrogen
and fuel cells, then just sitting on it which forces
everyone to keep buying fossil fuels??

It's sinister, but I think you could be right. So
Philips and GEC will probably be buying up patents
on the large scale LED technology, and sit on it
while selling crappy light bulbs, then finally when
a small manufacturer makes a half-profitable LED
light bulb they will step in with mass production
and crush the smaller guy, then of course when the
small guy goes broke the prices jump back up...
Are we getting too cynical in our old age??
:o)
-Roman

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics


More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2001 , 2002 only
- Today
- New search...