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'[EE]: Bridge Amplifier'
2002\07\01@111550 by Tal Bejerano - AMC

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Hi All

Look at the attached drawing taken from Sam Electronic Circuits web site.
Is it possible to connect the two ALREADY bridged amps together to gain more
power?
right now each amp deliver 18W, I want to gain 36W and more (mono).
circuit is operating via car battery (12Vdc) so high current consumption
isn't an issue.

Regards

Tal Bejerano
AMC - ISRAEL


part 2 4389 bytes content-type:image/gif; (decode)


part 3 154 bytes
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2002\07\01@121030 by David Minkler

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Tal,

> Is it possible to connect the two ALREADY bridged amps together to gain
> more power?

No.  Power output is limited by supply voltage and speaker impedance in
this configuration.  If you want more power to your speakers you will
need a higher supply voltage or a lower speaker impedance.

Regards,
Dave

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2002\07\01@122510 by Tal Bejerano - AMC

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Dale
10x a lot!!

Regards

Tal Bejerano
AMC - ISRAEL


-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list [spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On
Behalf Of David Minkler
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 6:16 PM
To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [EE]: Bridge Amplifier


Tal,

> Is it possible to connect the two ALREADY bridged amps together to gain
> more power?

No.  Power output is limited by supply voltage and speaker impedance in
this configuration.  If you want more power to your speakers you will
need a higher supply voltage or a lower speaker impedance.

Regards,
Dave

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2002\07\01@133045 by Joris van den Heuvel

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A quick and simple answer: no.

The amps operate off the same power supply. Otherwise, it would have been
possible to "stack" the amps in series. Although I'm not sure that would be
a stable solution.

You need a higher power supply voltage to get more power, or lower your
speaker's impedance (paralleling two or more drivers), but then make sure
the amp can handle the increased current.

Regards,
Joris.


{Original Message removed}

2002\07\01@133707 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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A way to get more power from the same supply voltage is to use a transformer
to lower you speaker's impedance. You can for instance use a the secondary
of a 12-0-12 transformer as autotransformer. (speaker between 12 and 12, amp
between 0 and 12: effectively halves your speaker's impedance, quadruples
the power).

Wouter van Ooijen
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Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
Jal compiler, Wisp programmer, WLoader bootloader, PICs kopen

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2002\07\01@134444 by Olin Lathrop

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> Look at the attached drawing taken from Sam Electronic Circuits web site.
> Is it possible to connect the two ALREADY bridged amps together to gain
more
> power?

No.

> right now each amp deliver 18W, I want to gain 36W and more (mono).
> circuit is operating via car battery (12Vdc) so high current consumption
> isn't an issue.

9W per channel is a fundamental limit when using a single 12V supply to the
final amplifier stage into 8 ohms.  Using two finals and driving each side
in opposition can create at most a 24V peak to peak signal.  That's 12V zero
to peak, and 12V / sqrt(2) = 8.5V RMS, 8.5V**2 / 8ohm = 9 watts for each
channel.  To get more, you have to create a higher supply voltage and/or use
lower impedence speakers.  That's why some car speakers are 4ohms instead of
8ohms.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

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2002\07\01@150509 by Peter L. Peres

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On Mon, 1 Jul 2002, wouter van ooijen & floortje hanneman wrote:

>A way to get more power from the same supply voltage is to use a transformer
>to lower you speaker's impedance. You can for instance use a the secondary
>of a 12-0-12 transformer as autotransformer. (speaker between 12 and 12, amp
>between 0 and 12: effectively halves your speaker's impedance, quadruples
>the power).

Except that at 4 ohms speaker impedance the primary will be seen as a
2ohms load with umpteen losses (the windings will have a comparable
resistance to the 2 ohms).

All higher power car amps use dc/dc converters to up the voltage. Doubling
the supply voltage will go a long way in the direction you need, Tal. For
a simple solution, try a simple switcher from National. It will be noisy
only if you lay out the boards badly ;-).

Peter

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2002\07\01@151726 by Tal Bejerano - AMC

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well, it seems car's manufacturers give us hard life :-)

Regards

Tal Bejerano
AMC - ISRAEL


-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list [PICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On
Behalf Of Peter L. Peres
Sent: Monday, July 01, 2002 8:56 PM
To: .....PICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [EE]: Bridge Amplifier


On Mon, 1 Jul 2002, wouter van ooijen & floortje hanneman wrote:

>A way to get more power from the same supply voltage is to use a
transformer
>to lower you speaker's impedance. You can for instance use a the secondary
>of a 12-0-12 transformer as autotransformer. (speaker between 12 and 12,
amp
>between 0 and 12: effectively halves your speaker's impedance, quadruples
>the power).

Except that at 4 ohms speaker impedance the primary will be seen as a
2ohms load with umpteen losses (the windings will have a comparable
resistance to the 2 ohms).

All higher power car amps use dc/dc converters to up the voltage. Doubling
the supply voltage will go a long way in the direction you need, Tal. For
a simple solution, try a simple switcher from National. It will be noisy
only if you lay out the boards badly ;-).

Peter

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2002\07\01@170851 by Peter L. Peres

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On Mon, 1 Jul 2002, David Minkler wrote:

>Tal,
>
>> Is it possible to connect the two ALREADY bridged amps together to gain
>> more power?
>
>No.  Power output is limited by supply voltage and speaker impedance in
>this configuration.  If you want more power to your speakers you will
>need a higher supply voltage or a lower speaker impedance.

Or a big custom-wound transformer. More voltage is the usual way though.

Peter

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2002\07\01@191951 by David Minkler

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Tal,

In a sense, they give us an easy life.  If what you want to do were too
easy any idiot who wanted to could do it.  Once you figure out how to do
it, you can multiply the reward.  A guy who makes a living swinging a
hammer can never do that.  As Henry Ford once said, "Thinking is the
hardest work there is, perhaps that's why so few people engage in the
practice."

Best regards,

Dave Minkler

Tal Bejerano - AMC wrote:
>
> well, it seems car's manufacturers give us hard life :-)

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2002\07\01@223443 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

No, the maximum signal swing you can directly get from a 12volt supply is 24
volts which is what the bridge circuit acheives.  To get more power you have
a choice of reducing the load impedance, or increasing the supply voltage
via a DC-DC step up converter.

Regards

Mike

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2002\07\02@035226 by Alan B. Pearce

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>All higher power car amps use dc/dc converters to up
>the voltage. Doubling the supply voltage will go a long
>way in the direction you need, Tal. For a simple
>solution, try a simple switcher from National. It will be
>noisy only if you lay out the boards badly ;-).

Of course another solution is to wait for vehicles with the new 42V standard
supply to arrive :)

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