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'[EE]: Anyone run PIC on 6V lithium camera batts?'
2002\02\20@034733 by Jinx

face picon face
Found these whilst looking for logic datasheets. Advanced
Ultra-low Voltage CMOS. Standard gates with 0.8V to 3.6V
supply range. Yes, 0.8V

http://www.philipslogic.com/products/auc/

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2002\02\21@070545 by Jinx

face picon face
> get enough for a thermal pile however :)

I've just looked in my "Boys Book Of Proper Names For
Things" and would like to amend my suggestion to
"thermopile". There's an example of a marine battery
using Strontium 90 called a thermopile, but I meant a
device using the Seebeck effect of hot/cold junctions.
There's an interesting example of a power source for a
domestic radio from Russia in the 1930's. It consists
of a zig-zag of thermocouple junctions in series arranged
in a ring around an oil lamp. Half are in the flame, half are
not

Could one could find a sufficient differential (outside
of a geothermal or volcanic field) in the NZ bush to
supply a few volts at uA ? Perhaps a parabolic reflector
to concentrate sun light/sun heat for the hot junctions and
free air for the cold ones ?

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2002\02\21@081009 by Russell McMahon

picon face
> > get enough for a thermal pile however :)
>
> I've just looked in my "Boys Book Of Proper Names For
> Things" and would like to amend my suggestion to
> "thermopile". There's an example of a marine battery
> using Strontium 90 called a thermopile, but I meant a
> device using the Seebeck effect of hot/cold junctions.
> There's an interesting example of a power source for a
> domestic radio from Russia in the 1930's. It consists
> of a zig-zag of thermocouple junctions in series arranged
> in a ring around an oil lamp. Half are in the flame, half are
> not

I quite possibly could have acquired one of these for little or nothing at
one stage but I missed out.

I remember seeing one of these in a magzine in my teenage years and lo &
behold, on arriving at the School of EE there was one hanging by chains from
the ceiling in one of the labs. Nobody seemed to know what it was but it was
immediately obvious that it was the same as the magazine picture. Close
inspection revealed Russian inscriptions (fair go).

It was still there when I finished my BE and also possibly still there when
I went back and did an ME 4 years later.
BUT somewhere along the way it slipped quietly away and odd are that they
just threw it out. Shame.

The NZ Railways had thermopiles that produced electricity from an LPG flame
source. According to my "heap" they were sold by tender in 1994.
According to TPILE item003 specs were -

Telan Thermoelectric Generator (model 2T4 etc)  (brand?)
Propane, Butane, Natural gas,
10 to 90 watts in 10 watt steps (modules?)
12V adj 12-16
24 volts adj 24-31
48 volts adj 48-56

Flameless combustion, catalytic bed of Pt coated AlO pellets
Bismuth Telluride thermoelectrics.



       RM






       Russell McMahon









{Quote hidden}

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2002\02\21@082857 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>but I meant a
>device using the Seebeck effect of hot/cold junctions.
>There's an interesting example of a power source for a
>domestic radio from Russia in the 1930's. It consists
>of a zig-zag of thermocouple junctions in series arranged
>in a ring around an oil lamp. Half are in the flame, half are
>not

There was an item in the Home Constructors section of Electronics Australia
many years ago, where someone made a device like this and had it supplying
9V for a transistor radio.

The picture showed it running off an old Tilley kerosene lamp IIRC. The
construction was a disc of insulating material (possibly mica) with the
wires mounted radially through holes, like wheel spokes. They were then
connected so all wires were in series. A number of these discs were mounted
in a stack with the flame going up the middle, and the outside ends being
the cold junction.

This would have been back in the early 1960's, probably when the magazine
was still issued under its previous name which I cannot remember.
Unfortunately I cannot remember the wire used, but suspect it was constantan
and something else. I remember there being a bit of discussion in the item
about what wire to use to maximise the voltage.

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2002\02\21@104018 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>The replacement gel thingie is a molded plastic snap-in
>unit that includes a D cell.

yeah, shades of the Polaroid film cartridge with the 6V flat package battery
in it.

I would be surprised if there was not some way in which the bait refill
could not include a battery change. However I come back to the look that it
is probably easier to replace the whole contraption, and the act of opening
the bait outlet turns on the electronics.

The chances of the bait release mechanism lasting in conditions which at
times can be like rainforest, without corrosion, even with battery changes,
is not high at all. Some sort of regular maintenance/replacement of the
mechanism is bound to be required.


changed the tag as we're getting away from PIC's

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2002\02\21@143537 by Paul Gaastra

flavicon
face
Jinx the battery is Kodak Photolife KL2CR5.  I did a 150mA over
night test and I got a capacity to 5V of about 1.2AH although the
manufacturer says 3AH (according to my boss)

Olin Lathrop wrote:
>By the way, 290uA for 5 years comes out to 12.7 Amp-hours, and
>doesn't take into account battery self discharge or shelf life.
>That's a pretty beafy battery, although I'm not that familiar with
>what's available in lithium cells.

Oops, sorry the final version won't be 290uA I had the infrared
gates pulsed outside my read the ports instructions.  I can fine
tune the circuit to have the pulses much shorter.


>Also, how often does the bait reservoir need to be refilled?  It's
>hard to imagine (but possible, I suppose) that this bait dispenser
>can be filled with a 5 year supply of food that won't perish while
>sitting in a bush somewhere.  If someone has to go refill the
>container, they could just as well replace batteries while they're at
>it.  Either you haven't thought this thru or there is a lot your not
>telling us.

There is a lot I'm not telling.  These are stoats, wide territories and
infrequent visits.


Paul Gaastra      email:.....pgaastraKILLspamspam@spam@hortresearch.co.nz
BioEngineering Technologies, HortResearch
Private Bag 3123            phone +64 7 8584745
Hamilton, NEW ZEALAND         fax +64 7 8584705


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2002\02\21@150651 by Jinx

face picon face
> Unfortunately I cannot remember the wire used, but suspect
> it was constantan and something else. I remember there
> being a bit of discussion in the item about what wire to use
> to maximise the voltage

No mention in the article of the wires used in the Russian unit,
but says Seebeck himself used bismuth and copper

Wonder if there's a market for this type of voltage generation
with campers/trampers who use fuel lamps. Probably already
been done or is too expensive. Does the Seebeck effect work
with just metals or could it work with ceramics ?

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2002\02\21@173343 by Jinx

face picon face
> Kodak Photolife KL2CR5.

> 1.2AH although the manufacturer says 3AH

Assuming the lower, you could expect a 5 year life if you get
the average consumption down to 1,200,000uAh/44,000h or
~27uA. If you assume the higher Ah, then you could run at
an average of 3,000,000uAh/44000h or ~ 68uA. Design for
the worst, hope for the best

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2002\02\21@180605 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> Jinx the battery is Kodak Photolife KL2CR5.  I did a 150mA over
> night test and I got a capacity to 5V of about 1.2AH although the
> manufacturer says 3AH (according to my boss)
>
> Olin Lathrop wrote:
> >By the way, 290uA for 5 years comes out to 12.7 Amp-hours, and
> >doesn't take into account battery self discharge or shelf life.
> >That's a pretty beafy battery, although I'm not that familiar with
> >what's available in lithium cells.
>
> Oops, sorry the final version won't be 290uA I had the infrared
> gates pulsed outside my read the ports instructions.  I can fine
> tune the circuit to have the pulses much shorter.

OK, so let's work it backwards.  3AH spread over 5 years comes out to 68uA
average, again not taking shelf life and self discharge into account.

How often does this thing need to dispense a stoat snack?


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, olinspamKILLspamembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2002\02\22@040238 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
> 1.2AH although the manufacturer says 3AH

Remember that the AH figure is often quoted at a maximum current draw, and
if you run at higher than that current the AH figure drops. I suspect that
this is why you see only 1.2AH at 120ma draw. I would not expect to run a
camera battery at this current continuously.

It would normally expect to see about the current you will need to get down
to, while in a camera. I guess this is why you are seeking to use this
battery :)

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2002\02\23@060456 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>No mention in the article of the wires used in the Russian unit,
>but says Seebeck himself used bismuth and copper

The effect works best in certain semiconductor junctions. I once had a
book about $SUBJ that described the Russian items in detail. I do not
remember what they used. Some Telluride or something like that.

Peter

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