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'[EE]: 8088 system'
2001\04\23@081127 by Vasile Surducan

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Imre,
There isn't much easyest to grab a small 8088 main board ?
Or you plan to built more than one piece...
If I'll search, I have somewhere a small one, for you.
Vasile


On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, dr. Imre Bartfai wrote:

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2001\04\23@081922 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

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> > I am very interested how to build a minimal 8088 system, so could you
tell
> > us please what another chips are needed. I think of a minimal system
with
> > SRAM and EEPROM, USART. What do I need yet?

I vaguely remeber a minimal 8088 board by Elektuur years and years ago, with
software to play chess and communicatie over RS-232. I think I don't have
that issue, but it should be in various libraries.
Wouter

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2001\04\23@093920 by James Paul

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Vasile,

If you have two, I could use one.  I'd appreciate your looking and
letting me know if you have a second spare SBC.  It doesn't have to
be an 8088, but it does need to be IBM compatible.

                                       Thanks and Regards,

                                              Jim



On Mon, 23 April 2001, Vasile Surducan wrote:

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jimspamKILLspamjpes.com

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2001\04\23@101411 by Craig Cassin

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Subject: Re: [EE]: 8088 system

Why not llook at 8052s? This will save on external chips.

But why not stick with Pics?

It will be hard to find an embedded project that you cannot do with an 877.

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2001\04\23@114517 by jamesnewton

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Bless you for changing the topic.

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2001\04\23@125610 by Dale Botkin

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On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Craig Cassin wrote:

> Subject: Re: [EE]: 8088 system
>
> Why not llook at 8052s? This will save on external chips.

Yeah...  but not nearly as much as using a PIC will.

I have a couple of 8051 boards at home.  Each has an 8051, EPROM, RS232,
and one has an 8Kx8 EEPROM.  I bought them to play around with several
years ago.  Cute, but not terribly useful if you're wanting to do things
with an absolute minimum of parts and effort.  You almost need external
driver transistors for an LED, for heaven's sake.  No timers, no hardware
USART, lots of current required and they're picky about power -- none of
this running from two AA batteries. I don't use them for anything now. I
probably will figure out some use for them, but right now they're
paperweights.

Yes, I know there are far better 8052 variations available now, but not at
PIC prices, and not from the places I buy from.  All in all, I'm happy
with PICs and have not had any recent instances of wishing I were still
writing code for Intel processors.

> But why not stick with Pics?
>
> It will be hard to find an embedded project that you cannot do with an 877.

Amen brother!

Dale
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discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
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2001\04\23@135853 by Michael Pont

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I don't want to spark a religious debate, but I can't let this pass...

I have done a fair amount of work with the 8051 family and (I freely
confess) nothing much with the PIC yet.
That being said:

There are more than 300 different 8051s out there, from 20 pins to 100
pins+.  Many have flash memory.  99% have UARTs.  Running on batteries isn't
a problem, and neither is driving LEDs.  CAN, ADC, DAC, PWM, etc, are all
(of course) available.

Big advantage (as far as I can see) is the *ALL* of the 8051s have the same
core architecture and - crucial for me - can be prigrammed with the same C
compiler (from Keil in my case).  This does not seem to be the case for the
PIC familiy, for which I seem to need around three different compilers?

Michael.

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2001\04\23@140104 by Bill Westfield

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   Yeah...  but not nearly as much as using a PIC will.

   I have a couple of 8051 boards at home.  Each has an 8051, EPROM, RS232,
   and one has an 8Kx8 EEPROM.  I bought them to play around with several
   years ago.  Cute, but not terribly useful if you're wanting to do things
   with an absolute minimum of parts and effort.

An 8x51 is actually quite similar to the PIC, and has onboard xROM, RAM, and
usually uarts and timers as well.  It ALSO has the ability to run in
"external" mode, where program and data memory are connected externally.
This was a very useful thing in the days before erasable memory...


   Yes, I know there are far better 8052 variations available now, but not at
   PIC prices, and not from the places I buy from.

Atmel 89C2051 - $5 from http://www.bgmicro.com - a mini 8051 with 2k flash, uart,
two timers, 128 ram, LED capable drive, analog comparator, 20 pin package.
Perhaps more importantly, there are a LOT of vendors in the 8x51 space, so
you're not quite as much at the whims of a single manufacturer.

BillW

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2001\04\23@155049 by Dale Botkin

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On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Michael Pont wrote:

> I don't want to spark a religious debate, but I can't let this pass...

I'm not trying to start a holy war either, really I'm not.  I was just
offering my own input, YMMV.

> I have done a fair amount of work with the 8051 family and (I freely
> confess) nothing much with the PIC yet.
> That being said:
>
> There are more than 300 different 8051s out there, from 20 pins to 100
> pins+.  Many have flash memory.  99% have UARTs.  Running on batteries isn't
> a problem, and neither is driving LEDs.  CAN, ADC, DAC, PWM, etc, are all
> (of course) available.

No argument there, there is a dizzying array of different types of 8051
derivatives available from numerous sources.  I'm sure there is a
perfectly suitable 8051 derivtive from somewhere for almost any task.
However, only a few are readily available from the suppliers I use
(Digi-Key, JDR, Jameco, Mouser, etc).  I can almost scoop PICs up off the
street on my way to work, they're easier to find than coffee.

> Big advantage (as far as I can see) is the *ALL* of the 8051s have the same
> core architecture and - crucial for me - can be prigrammed with the same C
> compiler (from Keil in my case).  This does not seem to be the case for the
> PIC familiy, for which I seem to need around three different compilers?

Not really. If you want to encompass ALL of the different PIC families
you'll need one for the 12/14 bit cores, and one for the 16 bit cores. But
really, that's like saying you'd need separate compilers for the 8048 and
the 8051 (or 8051 and 80196, whatever).  They come from the same
manufacturer and have some definite similarities, but are different
animals.  I can buy one compiler that will handle all 12xxx, 14000, 16xxx
and 17xxx parts if I need to -- though I didn't; I only need to use the
midrange parts.  I don't know what 8051 compiler prices are like, but the
last time I looked they were substantially higher than what I paid, which
is a big factor for those of us who don't do this full-time.

I liked the '51 a lot, still do.  But I'll still stand by my orignal
statment:

> > Yes, I know there are far better 8052 variations available now, but not at
> > PIC prices, and not from the places I buy from.  All in all, I'm happy
> > with PICs and have not had any recent instances of wishing I were still
> > writing code for Intel processors.

Dale
---
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
               -- Isaac Asimov

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2001\04\23@160521 by Dale Botkin

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On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, William Chops Westfield wrote:

>     Yes, I know there are far better 8052 variations available now, but not at
>     PIC prices, and not from the places I buy from.
>
> Atmel 89C2051 - $5 from http://www.bgmicro.com - a mini 8051 with 2k flash, uart,
> two timers, 128 ram, LED capable drive, analog comparator, 20 pin package.
> Perhaps more importantly, there are a LOT of vendors in the 8x51 space, so
> you're not quite as much at the whims of a single manufacturer.

Yes, about half a dozen from them.  A hundred or so PICs from Digi-Key
compared to a couple dozen 8051 derivatives.  I'm not disagreeing with
anyone who sings the praises of the 8051 architecture, just saying there
are reasons I switched to PICs.

Dale
---
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
               -- Isaac Asimov

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2001\04\23@202634 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>USART, lots of current required and they're picky about power -- none of
>this running from two AA batteries. I don't use them for anything now. I
>probably will figure out some use for them, but right now they're
>paperweights.

       Does these paperweights has a fair price? :o) I love paperweights running with an 8051 :o)

>> It will be hard to find an embedded project that you cannot do with an 877.

       Yep, you are completely right!

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2001\04\24@015612 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,

unfortunately, I found. Possible solution would be also some PIC, with a
huge amount of external ROM, but I need also about 32-64k RAM. I did
already used such RAM connected to a PIC but it is not straightforward and
rather cumbersome. Beneath this, there are affordable development tools on
the market (I mean http://www.dunfield.com) where C compiler produce ROMable 8086
code. A real alternative would be only a good old Z80, but AFAIK it could
not DIV or MUL.

Regards,
Imre


On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, Craig Cassin wrote:

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2001\04\24@021123 by Vasile Surducan

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Everyting depend's on where do you live. It's sure that postage
expense will be greater than board itself..., my offer was for someone
living close enough from me. Mail me directly if still interested.
Vasile

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, James Paul wrote:

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2001\04\26@084521 by Steve Nordhauser

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My first thought was 'WHY??'  when you can buy a celeron and motherboard
for about $100.  Right now I have minimal time for hobby work so I tend to focus
it by applying money to acclerate projects.  When I was in high school/college, money
was tight.  I built my own preamp and amp out of radio electronics articles.  The learning
and satifaction is emmense.  So, Imre, that's why.  And yes, if you just want to
accomplish something, if it is embedded, use a PIC/8051 whatever.  If it is desktop,
have someone give you a 386 laying around.  If you are in it for the fun, build your
own.
Steve

Subject: Re: [EE]: 8088 system
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 15:09:52 +0300
From: Vasile Surducan <@spam@vasileKILLspamspamL30.ITIM-CJ.RO>

Imre,
There isn't much easyest to grab a small 8088 main board ?
Or you plan to built more than one piece...
If I'll search, I have somewhere a small one, for you.
Vasile

On Mon, 23 Apr 2001, dr. Imre Bartfai wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am very interested how to build a minimal 8088 system, so could you tell
> us please what another chips are needed. I think of a minimal system with
> SRAM and EEPROM, USART. What do I need yet?
>
> Thank you.
> Imre

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2001\04\26@151330 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>My first thought was 'WHY??'  when you can buy a celeron and motherboard
>for about $100.  Right now I have minimal time for hobby work so I tend to focus

       A-HA! You can get it for it's price in USA, but never mind in Brazil. Here it costs about $250-300!!!

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