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'[EE]: A new world opens up...'
2003\04\27@202022 by Picdude

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part 1 1041 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded quoted-printable)

Been meaning to try hand-soldering a SOIC surface-mount for a long time, but finally felt fearless today.  With a small scrap of PCB, I laid out a few SOIC patterns and hand-soldered it with a regular Weller SP12 soldering iron....  very small, light, and low-cost ($13), with a decently small tip (though I've seen smaller-tipped irons).  Pic of this first attempt attached.

I've electrically tested it, and it seems to all be good.  Whereas it's not aesthetically perfect, neither was my first attempt at regular thru-hole soldering.  No magnifier used either.  Chip is a 50-mil pitch generic 74LS244 I picked up for a few cents some time back.

Please, no comments on the scrap PCB, which I cut with a pair of scissors.

This opens up a new world to me, and I highly recommend it to anyone else who's been sceptical.

Cheers,
-Neil.


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part 2 10249 bytes content-type:image/jpeg; (decode)


part 3 2 bytes
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2003\04\27@202849 by Herbert Graf

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{Quote hidden}

       Way to go, it actually looks far better then MY first attempt... SOIC
soldering isn't too bad, solder wick is generally the only additional tool I
need over what I use for through hole soldering, and I've been needing it
much less frequently.

       I find for SOIC a regular tip is usable, while a fine tip is far better a
regular tip will do. Now of course since you've crossed this bridge you must
go smaller! Those tiny 4 resistor resistor packs are REAL fun to hand
solder! :) One good thing about being nearsighted as I am is you don't need
a magnifying glass, I just hold everything close to my eyes. People around
me always ask whether I can actually see anything that close... :) TTYL

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2003\04\27@210516 by Jinx

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> This opens up a new world to me, and I highly recommend it to
> anyone else who's been sceptical

Fun, eh ? I was particularly pleased I could do this when the only
AVRs in stock were SMT. Dead easy to make an SMT to DIP
adapter

Here's something to try next -

Get a scrap PCB that's stuffed full of all kinds of interesting SMT chips.
Take to the non-chip side with a blowtorch, bang it on the bench, and
watch the chips drop off like flies

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2003\04\27@214909 by Picdude

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Need to go pick up some more el-cheapo SOIC's.

There's an interesting local electronics store that's run by a nice elderly gentleman. The place is dusty, many parts are from another era, but many are quite up-to-date.  Looks like he buys a lot of closeouts.  Best part is his prices -- I'll go in there and grab a few dozen chips, connectors, several dozen capacitors, transistors, etc.  I'd be estimating about $40-$50 at digikey-ish prices.  He'll split out the high-dollar items, write up a bill for those and chuck the rest in the bag, then tell me.... $10.  Hobbyist's paradise.

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Sunday 27 April 2003 20:06, Jinx wrote:
> Here's something to try next -
>
> Get a scrap PCB that's stuffed full of all kinds of interesting SMT chips.
> Take to the non-chip side with a blowtorch, bang it on the bench, and
> watch the chips drop off like flies

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2003\04\27@215323 by Picdude
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On Sunday 27 April 2003 20:06, Jinx wrote:
> Get a scrap PCB that's stuffed full of all kinds of interesting SMT chips.
> Take to the non-chip side with a blowtorch, bang it on the bench, and
> watch the chips drop off like flies


You really really really need to get out more.  Or stand on your head and see life like we do in the northern hemisphere.
:-)

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2003\04\27@221644 by Picdude

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On Sunday 27 April 2003 19:27, Herbert Graf wrote:
>         Way to go, it actually looks far better then MY first attempt...
> SOIC soldering isn't too bad, solder wick is generally the only additional
> tool I need over what I use for through hole soldering, and I've been
> needing it much less frequently.
>
>         I find for SOIC a regular tip is usable, while a fine tip is far
> better a regular tip will do. Now of course since you've crossed this
> bridge you must go smaller! Those tiny 4 resistor resistor packs are REAL
> fun to hand solder! :) One good thing about being nearsighted as I am is
> you don't need a magnifying glass, I just hold everything close to my eyes.
> People around me always ask whether I can actually see anything that
> close... :) TTYL


The thing I really want to try next is using thinner solder.  I was using .032, but can find solder less than half that diameter.

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2003\04\28@001645 by Herbert Graf

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{Quote hidden}

       Yes thinner solder can help. The BIGGEST thing while soldering anything
surface mount is keep the amount of solder low, too much just means you have
to start over... :) TTYL

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2003\04\28@010908 by Ned Konz

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On Sunday 27 April 2003 09:12 pm, Herbert Graf wrote:

> > The thing I really want to try next is using thinner solder.  I
> > was using .032, but can find solder less than half that diameter.
>
>         Yes thinner solder can help. The BIGGEST thing while
> soldering anything surface mount is keep the amount of solder low,
> too much just means you have to start over... :) TTYL

However, solder that's too thin (for instance, 0.010 inches in
diameter) doesn't hold very much flux.

So you have to use separate flux for good results.

0.015 or 0.017 is marginal.

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2003\04\28@073743 by Olin Lathrop

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>>> The thing I really want to try next is using thinner solder.  I
>>> was using .032, but can find solder less than half that diameter.
>>
>>         Yes thinner solder can help. The BIGGEST thing while
>> soldering anything surface mount is keep the amount of solder low,
>> too much just means you have to start over... :) TTYL
>
> However, solder that's too thin (for instance, 0.010 inches in
> diameter) doesn't hold very much flux.
>
> So you have to use separate flux for good results.
>
> 0.015 or 0.017 is marginal.

I keep two sizes of solder around here.  The .031" (.8mm) is for most
purposes (like all thru-hole work), and .020" for fine.  Anything that
requires finer solder than that also requires a different technique than a
soldering iron in one hand and wire solder in the other.


*****************************************************************
Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

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2003\04\29@045840 by Alan B. Pearce

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>The thing I really want to try next is using thinner
>solder.  I was using  .032, but can find solder less
>than half that diameter.

You will find that using the correct diameter solder is the biggest step to
making neat looking hand soldered SMD joints. Go for it, it is great fun.

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2003\04\29@203351 by Jinx

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>> Get a scrap PCB that's stuffed full of all kinds of interesting SMT
>> chips. Take to the non-chip side with a blowtorch, bang it on the
>> bench, and watch the chips drop off like flies

> You really really really need to get out more

I agree. But 2 out of 3 psychologists can't ;-)

Although I use the blowtorch method just for stripping parts a couple
of technician friends do actually use it in repair work. It takes a little
practice to remove a 100 pin QFP without cooking the chip or PCB
but it really can be done

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2003\04\29@204136 by Marc Nicholas

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Can't you just use a high-temp hot air gun?!

On 29/4/03 20:26, "Jinx" <spam_OUTjoecolquittTakeThisOuTspamCLEAR.NET.NZ> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\04\29@212148 by Jinx

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> Can't you just use a high-temp hot air gun?!

Possibly, but I don't got one (it died) to try that out

The technician friends use the little butane pencil torches, which
must concentrate the heat in a small area in a short time. I know
that one of the things they do is to put revised OTPs or chipsets
in telcom equipment. With quite a number of boards to do they
get plenty of practice

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2003\04\29@212340 by Picdude

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On Tuesday 29 April 2003 19:26, Jinx scribbled:
> >> Get a scrap PCB that's stuffed full of all kinds of interesting SMT
> >> chips. Take to the non-chip side with a blowtorch, bang it on the
> >> bench, and watch the chips drop off like flies
> >
> > You really really really need to get out more
>
> I agree. But 2 out of 3 psychologists can't ;-)
>
> Although I use the blowtorch method just for stripping parts a couple
> of technician friends do actually use it in repair work. It takes a little
> practice to remove a 100 pin QFP without cooking the chip or PCB
> but it really can be done

It's actually a great idea, but having a vague image of you from your website a long time ago, I have a fuzzy image in my mind of you with a wide ear-to-ear grin, a PCB in one hand, and a flamethrower in the other.  :-)

Unfortunately, I don't have any old SMT boards laying around, so it was off to the store of me.

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2003\04\29@230447 by Jinx

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> I have a fuzzy image in my mind of you with a wide ear-to-ear grin,
> a PCB in one hand, and a flamethrower in the other.  :-)

Maniacal cackling. Don't forget the maniacal cackling. And nothing
says "bug off" like a flame-thrower

About time we had a rogues gallery of list members. I know what
probably 1/2 dozen members look like. It's not very common for
people to put their mugshot on a webpage. Why is that ? Cameras
are very accessible nowadays. I had the cojones (credit card details
gets you a look at those) to put mine up, how about some others
do likewise ?

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2003\04\29@232934 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 03:03 PM 4/30/2003 +1200, you wrote:


>About time we had a rogues gallery of list members. I know what
>probably 1/2 dozen members look like. It's not very common for
>people to put their mugshot on a webpage. Why is that ?

Probably people who use their full real names are a bit more reticent to
put additional details out there for possible abuse.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
.....speffKILLspamspam@spam@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

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2003\04\29@234547 by Lyle Hazelwood

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>>About time we had a rogues gallery of list members. I know what
>>probably 1/2 dozen members look like. It's not very common for
>>people to put their mugshot on a webpage. Why is that ?

>Probably people who use their full real names are a bit more reticent to
>put additional details out there for possible abuse.

Speaking only for myself, I think you have the "abuse" part backwards.
I spare you all a look at my mug out of respect.
You folks are way too nice to be subjected to such an image. Better
that I keep my photo to myself and be thought a handsome fool than to
show you that I'm really just an ugly one. 8^)

Keep Smiling,
Lyle

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2003\04\29@235235 by Jinx

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> Probably people who use their full real names are a bit more
> reticent to put additional details out there for possible abuse.

I've no strong feelings either way wrt to photos, but my name is
part of my domain and I wouldn't say it's created any problems.
Unless I had a good reason to (eg for sales) I wouldn't put a
physical address on a page. But only because it's unnecessary,
not because I want to avoid anything. A PO Box for would be
OK but even that gives the impression of trying to stay unseen
or elusive. Maybe that's just me - I would try not to deal with
anyone who has just a PO Box address

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2003\04\30@012101 by Mike Singer

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Jinx wrote:
> ...Unless I had a good reason to (eg for sales) I
> wouldn't put a physical address on a page...

Hi Jinx,
it's cool. Put your exact GPS location on your Web
page in real time. (PICs should be involved, of course).
They say few centimeters accuracy could be achieved.
Imagine your home in 3D on the Web page and little
Jinx coming to kitchen or to solder PICs or elsewhere.
In real time. Famous Harry Potter in other words.
(We just finished both Harry Potters with my kid)

Mike :-) :-) :-)

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2003\04\30@031909 by Picdude

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ROTFLMAO!

Though I have a partially-interpretable image of me on my website (somewhere), you certainly won't get me to sign up for a PIC gallery.  Only out of courtesy to the other members.  :-)

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Tuesday 29 April 2003 22:03, Jinx scribbled:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\04\30@031918 by Picdude

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Safety and complexity has dictated that I keep my home address to myself.  Since I've had 7 addresses in the past 4 years, I've had one point of contact -- my mailbox.  And after the having the 3rd vehicle stolen, all my formal/official docs have my mailbox addr as well.

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Tuesday 29 April 2003 22:53, Jinx scribbled:
{Quote hidden}

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'[EE]: A new world opens up...'
2003\05\01@010028 by Picdude
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On Tuesday 29 April 2003 03:59, Alan B. Pearce scribbled:
> >The thing I really want to try next is using thinner
> >solder.  I was using  .032, but can find solder less
> >than half that diameter.
>
> You will find that using the correct diameter solder is the biggest step to
> making neat looking hand soldered SMD joints. Go for it, it is great fun.


Did this today, using .022 solder (silver) instead of the regular .032 rosin stuff I normally use.  Made a major improvement!  This SOIC stuff is looking very very promising.

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2003\05\01@122411 by Dwayne Reid

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At 03:53 PM 4/30/03 +1200, Jinx wrote:
> > Probably people who use their full real names are a bit more
> > reticent to put additional details out there for possible abuse.
>
>I've no strong feelings either way wrt to photos, but my name is
>part of my domain and I wouldn't say it's created any problems.
>Unless I had a good reason to (eg for sales) I wouldn't put a
>physical address on a page. But only because it's unnecessary,
>not because I want to avoid anything. A PO Box for would be
>OK but even that gives the impression of trying to stay unseen
>or elusive. Maybe that's just me - I would try not to deal with
>anyone who has just a PO Box address

I'll go one further: I won't purchase from a website where the owner hides
their identify.  If I don't see a real human's name and an address, I
*won't* give them my credit card number.

There are some sites selling some neat stuff.  But if I can't find a
contact name, mailing address, phone number, etc on the site, they don't
get my business.

dwayne

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2003\05\01@125328 by Wagner Lipnharski

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Picdude wrote:
> On Tuesday 29 April 2003 03:59, Alan B. Pearce scribbled:
>>> The thing I really want to try next is using thinner
>>> solder.  I was using  .032, but can find solder less
>>> than half that diameter.
>>
>> You will find that using the correct diameter solder is the biggest
>> step to making neat looking hand soldered SMD joints. Go for it, it
>> is great fun.
>
>
> Did this today, using .022 solder (silver) instead of the regular
> .032 rosin stuff I normally use.  Made a major improvement!  This
> SOIC stuff is looking very very promising.
>
> Cheers,
> -Neil.


Can you post the (0.022) solder part/number or code, manufacturer?

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2003\05\01@131200 by Picdude

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Radio Shack.  It's called "Silver Bearing Solder ....   .022".  It still is a rosin-flux solder.  Comes in a small roll for $4 IIRC.  I'll check the number as soon as I can get my butt off this seat.

Cheers,
-Neil.



On Thursday 01 May 2003 11:51, Wagner Lipnharski scribbled:
>
> Can you post the (0.022) solder part/number or code, manufacturer?

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2003\05\01@132144 by Mike Harrison

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The silver stuff (usually 2% silver, 63% tin) is highly recommented for all SM stuff - it has a
lower melting point and doesn't leech out the silver from the pads of chip R's and C's.
I also find it produces much brighter joints for general soldering, and use it for almost all
soldering.
On Thu, 1 May 2003 12:09:39 -0500, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\05\01@132547 by Charles Craft

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Other than cost, is there any downside to using silver solder for everything?


-------Original Message-------
From: Mike Harrison <RemoveMEmikespamTakeThisOuTWHITEWING.CO.UK>
Sent: 05/01/03 12:16 PM
To: PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [EE]:  A new world opens up...

>
> The silver stuff (usually 2% silver, 63% tin) is highly recommented for all
SM stuff - it has a
lower melting point and doesn't leech out the silver from the pads of chip
R's and C's.
I also find it produces much brighter joints for general soldering, and
use it for almost all
soldering.

On Thu, 1 May 2003 12:09:39 -0500, you wrote:

>Radio Shack.  It's called "Silver Bearing Solder ....   .022".  It still
is a
>rosin-flux solder.  Comes in a small roll for $4 IIRC.  I'll check the
number
{Quote hidden}

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2003\05\01@133001 by Picdude

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On Thursday 01 May 2003 11:23, Dwayne Reid scribbled:
> I'll go one further: I won't purchase from a website where the owner hides
> their identify.  If I don't see a real human's name and an address, I
> *won't* give them my credit card number.
>
> There are some sites selling some neat stuff.  But if I can't find a
> contact name, mailing address, phone number, etc on the site, they don't
> get my business.
>
> dwayne

I don't buy either unless there's a phone number, but many businesses won't put the owner's name on there, especially larger companies.  Look at companies like Amazon.com, Digikey, etc.  You won't get a human's name on those, but people are reachable.

Cheers,
-Neil.

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2003\05\01@133006 by Wagner Lipnharski

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Charles Craft wrote:
> Other than cost, is there any downside to using silver solder for
> everything?

the need to use sunglasses more often due the extra shinning?  :)

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2003\05\01@165943 by Picdude

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Here ya go ... Radio Shack part # 64-013E.

Cheers,
-Neil.


On Thursday 01 May 2003 12:09, Picdude scribbled:
> Radio Shack.  It's called "Silver Bearing Solder ....   .022".  It still is
> a rosin-flux solder.  Comes in a small roll for $4 IIRC.  I'll check the
> number as soon as I can get my butt off this seat.
>
> Cheers,
> -Neil.
>
> On Thursday 01 May 2003 11:51, Wagner Lipnharski scribbled:
> > Can you post the (0.022) solder part/number or code, manufacturer?

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2003\05\01@172522 by Marc Nicholas

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Or you could try the "slap the chip on the pads and cover with epoxy" trick
;-)

-marc

On 1/5/03 00:54, "Picdude" <RemoveMEpicdudeKILLspamspamNARWANI.ORG> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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