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'[EE]: [PIC]: How to have a private labeled chip ?'
2002\06\13@131454 by Tal (Zapta)

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Hello,

This is for a friend of mine. He developed microcontroller firmware for a
specific application and
want to sell the programmed chips under his own name. That is, instead of
having the
chip vendor marking on the chip, he wants to have his own chip number.

Any advice how to do that ? Can he order the chips from chip vendor with the
private marking or even have the manufacture program/mask the chips ?

What about small quantities, is there a way to erase the original marking
and stamp his own ?

Currently this is a garage operation but potentially he may strike gold and
have large
orders.

Thanks,

Tal

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2002\06\13@132941 by Larry G. Nelson Sr.

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I have seen the ID sandblasted or sanded off and a new label done with a
pad printer to put on "HOUSE Numbers".

At 10:14 AM 6/13/02 -0700, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Larry G. Nelson Sr.
spam_OUTL.NelsonTakeThisOuTspamieee.org
http://www.ultranet.com/~nr

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2002\06\13@133112 by M. Adam Davis

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If you order a lot of chips mask programming is an option, along with
specific/special markings.  I believe that they usually charge a large
setup fee for the mask programming and then for the stamping/laser
marking, then a low cost per thousand for the chips.

I've heard of individuals sanding off the markings and placing their own
through varous means.  I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to make a tray
that holds 24-40 chips which can be sanded at once then silk-screen
printed at once making the job quick and easy for a medium number of parts.

I imagine they want this is obscure the fact that it's a PIC.  I've
heard of people turning the leads upside down and designing the PCB to
match so you can't determined the chip type from the pinout as easily.

Still others buy the dice from the manufacturer and have them custom
packaged with a different pinout and marking by another manufacturer.

If this is going to be a very high volume app you might consider having
a company put the dice directly on board (COB) and blobbing epoxy over
it.  Won't stop the determined from getting your product, but will stop
the curious.

-Adam

Tal (Zapta) wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\06\14@064121 by Tal Dayan

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Thanks for the  information.

Do typical dies (sp?) include markings such as the manufactured or chip
model ?

Thanks,

Tal

> {Original Message removed}

2002\06\14@082104 by Spehro Pefhany

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At 09:59 PM 6/13/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Thanks for the  information.
>
>Do typical dies (sp?) include markings such as the manufactured or chip
>model ?

Yes. Quite frankly there is no practical way to stop a determined foe
from finding out your secrets if they have the price of a car or two to
throw around, and maybe a whole lot less. You may end up shooting yourself
in the foot by trying (extra costs, and drawing attention to your presumably
very healthy profit margin).

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
.....speffKILLspamspam@spam@interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com
9/11 United we Stand

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2002\06\15@050234 by Peter L. Peres

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On Thu, 13 Jun 2002, Tal Dayan wrote:

>Thanks for the  information.
>
>Do typical dies (sp?) include markings such as the manufactured or chip
>model ?

Small ones only have number codes or nothing at all (not enough room)
large ones have whole 'books' printed on the back of the die and sometimes
etched into the edges on the front side.

I don't know about PIC dies.

Peter

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2002\06\17@060958 by Alan B. Pearce

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>>Do typical dies (sp?) include markings such as the
>>manufactured or chip model ?

>Small ones only have number codes or nothing at all
>(not enough room) large ones have whole 'books'
>printed on the back of the die and sometimes etched
>into the edges on the front side.

And some chips have all sorts of pictures and other announcements (including
undying love) etched on them. See the Silicon Zoo at
http://www.microscopy.fsu.edu/creatures/index.html

>I don't know about PIC dies.

I don't either.

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