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'[EE]:[OT]: Bulb Life and Government'
2001\07\04@011225 by Heinz Czychun

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Tom,
       I understand your point of keeping the wasted heat down. Who
wants to pay twice for inefficiency?

       But your point of the power co's offering coupons for free
fluorescent bulbs tweaked something that has been bothering me for
some time.

< caution long rant >

       I was in Germany about a year ago, and a store there was
selling compact fluorescent bulbs for iirc around 8 DM ($ 6 CND,
$4.50 US). Since it seemed to be the type of consumer store that
sells excess inventory, I'm not sure if these were normal prices or
deeply discounted ones.

       If this was the normal price then either this product was
being subsidized, or bulb suppliers in Canada/US are gouging us.
Since here, in Canada, similar bulbs are being sold for $11 - $13
CND, or about twice as much. I'd be interested to hear from someone
who has more insight into the true situation in Germany. These were
manufactured by Kess in Essen.

       Since compact flourescents are so much easier on the
environment why does the government not step in and provide an
incentive to the consumer to buy or the manufacturer to supply these
by providing subsidizes to lower the cost to the consumer. I feel the
market for these is suffering from the chicken and egg thing. No one
wants to buy at the present price, so manufacturers don't want to
build massive quantities because no one wants to buy them at their
present price etc. etc. etc....  So the subsidizes can be seen as a,
temporary, priming the pump, sort of scenario to be removed once more
bulbs are bought and they become cheaper to mass produce.

       Why does it take a crisis to have people, who are in a
position to do something about it, focus on a solution? Surely the
value of saving energy exists before the crisis, perhaps even helping
to avoid the crisis in the first place.

< /caution long rant >

       Now for the [EE] portion; It was interesting that these bulbs
had a standard N/A (I'm not sure about Mexico) base, and that they
would work at 120 VAC, but I'm sure this over stresses some of "the
small parts". I haven't used it a lot. But it does seem to make a
good portable garage light (trouble light) since it doesn't have a
filament to break.


Heinz


At 5:41 PM -0700 7/3/01, Tom Handley wrote:
>    Olin, due to the power crisis here in the West, the two local
>Portland, OR power companies are giving away coupons for free
>compact flourescent bulbs. I've been using them for quite awhile
>to not only cut down energy and get longer life, but to keep the
>wasted heat down during the hot summer nights.
>
>    - Tom

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2001\07\04@041841 by Chris Carr

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I do not know about the situation in Germany but given the active and vocal
environmental movement in that Country.....

I can however say that in the UK the Electricity Companies sell domestic
customers low energy compact fluorescents at subsidised prices.

I know at one time in Denmark an electricity company there was giving these
bulbs away. The reason was pure economics. The Electricity Company made more
profits by giving away these light bulbs and reducing power consumption. The
calculations were simple, if each household used an energy saving bulb
instead of a conventional one then the power saved meant that they didn't
have to construct another power station to meet the projected demand. With
all the environmental and planning hurdles to overcome, building a New Power
Station is an expensive and protracted process, those costs have to be
recovered which means you have to increase the price to the customer or
reduce your profit margins. Or you reduce demand with a small hit on your
bottom line (even that can be absorbed as part of an advertising campaign
letting everyone know what you are doing to help the environment) Net
result, No investment in a Power Station giving bigger profits on a reduced
turnover and you have a nice green image.

Chris Carr


{Quote hidden}

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2001\07\04@125954 by goflo

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Heinz -

I don't know about DE,  but compact fluorescents were subsidized
on and off again by the local power company for about 7 years here
(San Diego County, CA, USA).  Not, of course, since they tripled
the price of electricity, the object of the exercise, but that's
another story...

Subsidizing efficient lighting is MUCH cheaper than building
and operating generating capacity. Lighting is a large fraction
of total electric demand, so we're talking about serious money.

FWIW, the "N/A base" is called an Edison socket.

regards, Jack

Heinz Czychun wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\07\04@173455 by Brian Kraut

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I bought four more flourescents at Home Depot yesterday.  They are on
sale for $8.99.

Heinz Czychun wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\07\04@181219 by Michael C. Reid

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Walmart has compact fluorescents for under $5.00 each!

Bulb Life and Government


I bought four more flourescents at Home Depot yesterday.  They are on
sale for $8.99.

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2001\07\04@210207 by Tom Handley

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  Heinz, as far as "subsidized", Chris and John summed things up. Here in
the Northwest, it also costs BPA a `fortune' to buy power from other sources
in addition to the cost of building new plants. Normally we have a `wealth'
of hydro-electric power but we've had the worst drought in recorded history.
Then there is California `clawing' at our Southern border for more of our
power ;-)

  - Tom

At 01:11 AM 7/4/01 -0400, Heinz Czychun wrote:
>Tom,
>        I understand your point of keeping the wasted heat down. Who
>wants to pay twice for inefficiency?
>
>        But your point of the power co's offering coupons for free
>fluorescent bulbs tweaked something that has been bothering me for
>some time.
>
>< caution long rant >
[SNIP]
{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

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2001\07\04@231958 by David VanHorn

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At 06:01 PM 7/4/01 -0700, Tom Handley wrote:
>    Heinz, as far as "subsidized", Chris and John summed things up. Here in
>the Northwest, it also costs BPA a `fortune' to buy power from other sources
>in addition to the cost of building new plants. Normally we have a `wealth'
>of hydro-electric power but we've had the worst drought in recorded history.
>Then there is California `clawing' at our Southern border for more of our
>power ;-)

I used to live in Dutch Flat CA, which among other attractions, has a nice
river, and it's own hydro plant :)  One winter, the main lines were down
for a week, and we didn't even notice.
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2001\07\05@013813 by Heinz Czychun

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Hi All,

       What I'm hearing is that fluorescent bulbs, just like any
other product, are sometimes discounted during promotional sales, or
for inventory liquidation. And periodically subsidized by the power
co's to help lower energy demand. So this could have been what I
experienced in Germany.

       In addition, if something goes wrong, whether natural or due
to lack of foresight, and the cost of electrical power increases
dramatically, these are given away as consolation prizes ;-(

Heinz

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2001\07\06@023116 by Peter L. Peres

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Of course everybody knows that high efficiency compact fluorescents do
terrible things to color perception and long time exposure (in the absence
of daylight) may cause changes in the way colors are perceived. Also, if
you have a color-sensitive activity or occupation you want to pay A LOT of
attention to this item.

To see the difference between a high efficiency and a normal fluorescent
light you'll need a spectrometer (optical, visible). You can build one
using a sliver of a CDROM and a slit. See a recipe by me in the list
archives. The difference is SIGNIFICANT and there are a number of
operations I do not want to do under high efficiency CCFL light.

I do not know if any government has the 'balls' to make everyone use CCFL
when so little data is available on long term effects.

Peter

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2001\07\06@173513 by Ron Wilder

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I bought a couple of "Two packs" at Costco a couple of weeks ago for
around $6.50.  The bulbs were the 100W equiv (I think 23W).  They also
had the 60W equiv.
Ron

"Michael C. Reid" wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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