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'[EE]:: New data storage called RVD can store 256GB'
2006\11\26@223045 by Russell McMahon

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This claims to be a new method of storing data at high density on paper.
I'll go on record as saying that (I think that) the claims are rubbish, but
it will be interesting to see if we are all storing our data on paper in a
few years time.

       http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=88962&d=18&m=11&y=2006


To demonstrate why I am cynical, I define a unit of data storage called the
"coldot" short for "colo[u]red dot".
A coldot is based on storing data in dots on paper at 300 dpi at 256 colours
per dot.
There are 35712(.0714) coldots per mm^2 - say 35,000.
A coldot is the product of dots per mm^2 x readable states per dot.
A coldot is a data state - NOT an area. There are 139.5 dots/mm^2 at 300
dpi.
Based on magnifying glass examination over the years of  laser printer
output at 300 dpi on up I'd say that *readable* resolutions greater than
that on paper are liable to be "difficult" to achieve with anything like
normal processes. You can indeed lay down dots at eg 2400 or even 4800 or
9600 dpi but the whole point in doing this is usually so you can NOT
distinguish individual dots afterwards.
The 256 colour levels are also liable, I feel, to be an upper level for
reasonable reading using normal deposition technologies. You can lay down 65
million colours, but distinguishing them afterwards reliably from a 0.007
mm^2 dot may be 'challenging'.

SO
He claims 90 to 450 GB per paper "RVD".
Details scarce, but assume lower limit and same size as existing DVD
surface.
120mm dia =~~ 10,000 mm^2 with 10% allowance for non data areas.

At 90 GB that's about 250 bytes per coldot.
ie you need a bit coding density 250 x 8 = 2000 times higher than I assumed
above.

Decrease dot size by 10 giving 100 times gain and colours by 20 to 5120 and
you get there.

My heartiest congratulations to anyone achieving this miracle.

He achieves coding density by using colours and shapes BUT he still has to
achieve equivalent densities to the above. Ultimately a shape is just a
pattern of dots on the paper and he is back into coldot territory.

Stay tuned ...



       Russell


Ref: Matthew McMahon

Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 2:53 PM
Subject: New data storage called RVD can store 256GB on A4 page


http://www.arabnews.com/?page=4&section=0&article=88962&d=18&m=11&y=2006




2006\11\26@224329 by Denny Esterline

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> This claims to be a new method of storing data at high density on paper.
> I'll go on record as saying that (I think that) the claims are rubbish, but
> it will be interesting to see if we are all storing our data on paper in a
> few years time.


OMG!!! Data can be stored on PAPER!!! What will they think of next?


(Hey, I couldn't be the only one thinking it :-)

-Denny



2006\11\27@025535 by Tony Smith

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> > This claims to be a new method of storing data at high
> density on paper.
> > I'll go on record as saying that (I think that) the claims are
> > rubbish, but it will be interesting to see if we are all
> storing our
> > data on paper in a few years time.
>
>
> OMG!!! Data can be stored on PAPER!!! What will they think of next?
>
>
> (Hey, I couldn't be the only one thinking it :-)
>
> -Denny


Yes, I think lots of people will poke holes in it.

...wait a minute...

That's an idea!  Poke holes in paper!  It would be just like binary, a hole
means 1, no hole means 0.  You could even shine a light though it.  Optical
readers, cool.  If you got the old fan-fold paper, you could have massive
storage.  How many holes can you poke in a box of that?  

Quick, to the patent office!

Tony

2006\11\27@031458 by Peter Bindels

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I think you'd get data loss if you stored the following data:

111111111
100000001
111111111

IE, the bit in the center will fall out and read as 1's, where they
should be 0's. Also, I'm not sure it's as safe from nieces and nephews
as my current harddisks.

On 27/11/06, Tony Smith <spam_OUTajsmithTakeThisOuTspamrivernet.com.au> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\11\27@051806 by Tony Smith

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Google 'lace card'.

Tony


{Quote hidden}

2006\11\27@054055 by Tamas Rudnai

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part 1 2757 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed (decoded 7bit)

Storing data on a paper is far from new. There were couple of examples 20
years ago using ordinary paper scanners to load softwares published by
computer magazines. But the best example is the bar code with different
variaties:

http://www.adams1.com/pub/russadam/stack.html

The only thing is the density as Russell claims quite interesting how did
they achieve that much and how accurate is that (if you think over printer
could fail, scanning is dependent on many things etc.

Tamas




On 11/27/06, Tony Smith <EraseMEajsmithspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTrivernet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Google 'lace card'.
>
> Tony
>
>
> > {Original Message removed}

2006\11\27@054452 by Alan B. Pearce

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>OMG!!! Data can be stored on PAPER!!! What will they think of next?
>
>(Hey, I couldn't be the only one thinking it :-)

Sounds to me like the full circle ... printed punched tape ...

Now how well can it be read once scrunched up in someone's pocket ...

2006\11\27@064033 by Tony Smith

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2D bar codes have been around for a while.  417 is the general standard.
Saw one the other day on something odd, but I've forgotten what it was was.
Odd enough for me to think 'that's odd', but not odd enough to remember the
actual product.  You see them on hard drives occasionally.

There's not really such a thing as a bookland bar code, Bookland is a
mythical kingdom somewhere in Oceania.  The first 2 digits of the EAN bar
code denotes the country, Australia is 93, New Zealand is 94 etc.  97 is
Bookland.  The rest is the ISBN number (well, most of it).

Seriously, all books come from the 'Kingdom of Bookland'.  Except in the US.

My favorite was bar codes on tires.  Looked like the 'bumpy' bar code in the
link, (and probably is).  Called a shadow bar code (or a shadow scanner), it
solved the problem of printing a black bar code on a black item (white
printing would be a bit ugly).  The bar code was sunken, and a light is
shone from the side.  Looking down, you get light & shadows, enough contrast
for a scan.  I think that's how the bumpy bar codes actually work, not some
weird braille-like reader it's suggesting.  Then again, people like building
odd stuff.

Tony


> {Original Message removed}

2006\11\27@135708 by Genome

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was not punch cards or tape used as storage when the first computer like
mechanisms were invented.. a hole and no hole on paper.. this were a lot
older than those vacuume tube computers.. they are more like type writers. I
think.

"Tony Smith" <ajsmithspamspam_OUTrivernet.com.au> wrote in message
news:@spam@20061127114031.D853BB07EBKILLspamspammit.edu...
{Quote hidden}

>> {Original Message removed}

2006\11\27@152056 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Genome wrote:

> was not punch cards or tape used as storage when the first computer like
> mechanisms were invented.. a hole and no hole on paper.. this were a lot
> older than those vacuume tube computers.. they are more like type writers. I
> think.

That's how I had to do my first programming course in university. Was only
a beginner's introduction, in FORTRAN... that was the last I saw of FORTRAN
and of the punch cards, even though I hear FORTRAN is still alive and well
:)

IIRC there are some guys around here who actually did some useful work with
such cards.

Gerhard

2006\11\28@013612 by Genome

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I think something similar to this are still being used a lot this days..
here we have a lot of companies relying on what we call TimeCards.. where
you have a small carton card with calendar dates and time printed on it. you
insert it on a clock like mechanism and holes get punch into it, which
specifies the time when you attend and leave work..

"Gerhard Fiedler" <KILLspamlistsKILLspamspamconnectionbrazil.com> wrote in message
news:RemoveME1mdfy24nbk9pu.dlgTakeThisOuTspamconnectionbrazil.com...> {Quote hidden}

> --

2006\11\28@134332 by Victor Fraenckel

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Others weigh in:

www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?NewsID=7432
--

*____________________________________________________________________________________________*

*Victor Fraenckel
KC2GUI
victorf ATSIGN windreader DOT com**
*


2006\11\29@055646 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Victor Fraenckel wrote:

> Others weigh in:
>
> http://www.techworld.com/news/index.cfm?NewsID=7432

Is this just plain stupid, or am I missing something?

"13. The alphabet problem Hexadecimal numbering works because the reading
device "understands" hexadecimal. Suppose you could use coloured and
shape-grouped bits to store more information, you would then need to
"understand" it. If every pixel represented a 32-bit colour then its value
is 2 to the power 32. A contributor to Daily Tech calculated that you could
have a 4096x4096 grid using pixels of 1-32 colours and so arrive at 6MB of
data. Two such "super bits" could represent 16GB (16 trillion) pieces of
information but ... you have invent an alphabet with 16 trillion letters
and map that to a binary alphabet. This is not a trivial computational
problem."

Where's that not trivial? The "letters" of this "alphabet" are each just a
number of bits, and two such "super bits" together are just two such
sequences of bits.

Gerhard

2006\11\29@081640 by Tony Smith

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{Quote hidden}

Could be a bit tricky reading a couple of tiny dots that are one colour
shade apart.

On the other hand, women don't seem to have much trouble doing it, judging
from the paint colour books with about 34235 versions of 'white'.  Vanilla
be damned, it's still white.  Even if it's called frozen vanilla.

Tony

2006\11\29@110930 by David VanHorn

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>
> On the other hand, women don't seem to have much trouble doing it, judging
> from the paint colour books with about 34235 versions of 'white'.  Vanilla
> be damned, it's still white.  Even if it's called frozen vanilla.


Color vision tables:

Women:  White, Eggshell, Arctic Snow, ........................
Men:  Black, Brown, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Violet, Silver, Gold.

Imagine what would have happened if women did the resistor color code!
Is that Teal, or Sea foam?

2006\11\29@112753 by Mike Hord

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> Color vision tables:
>
> Women:  White, Eggshell, Arctic Snow, ........................
> Men:  Black, Brown, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Violet, Silver, Gold.
>
> Imagine what would have happened if women did the resistor color code!
> Is that Teal, or Sea foam?

On the plus side, each resistor would only be one color!

Part of my problem with resistors is that my color vision deficit can be
mitigated by having a large sample size.  I stand a snowball's chance of
deciding whether that resistor is red-brown-green or red-brown-red, or
maybe it's red-brown-brown...

Mike H.

2006\11\29@123347 by DAX2

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Thank God for ohm meters, huh?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Hord" <spamBeGonemike.hordspamBeGonespamgmail.com>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <TakeThisOuTpiclistEraseMEspamspam_OUTmit.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]:: New data storage called RVD can store 256GB on A4 page

{Quote hidden}

> --

2006\11\29@143142 by Mark Rages

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On 11/29/06, Gerhard Fiedler <RemoveMElistsspamTakeThisOuTconnectionbrazil.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

It's stupid.  They're comparing "number of bits" with "pieces of
information that could possibly be represented".

This is like saying 8 bits "can represent" 256 pieces of information,
but 16 bits "can represent" 65536 pieces of information, so (int) is
much more efficient at coding data than (char).

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
You think that it is a secret, but it never has been one.
 - fortune cookie

2006\11\29@173537 by Herbert Graf

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On Wed, 2006-11-29 at 10:27 -0600, Mike Hord wrote:
> > Color vision tables:
> >
> > Women:  White, Eggshell, Arctic Snow, ........................
> > Men:  Black, Brown, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Violet, Silver, Gold.
> >
> > Imagine what would have happened if women did the resistor color code!
> > Is that Teal, or Sea foam?
>
> On the plus side, each resistor would only be one color!
>
> Part of my problem with resistors is that my color vision deficit can be
> mitigated by having a large sample size.  I stand a snowball's chance of
> deciding whether that resistor is red-brown-green or red-brown-red, or
> maybe it's red-brown-brown...

Heck, I don't have color vision problems, and sometimes of really cheap
resistors it's hard for ME to tell the difference between "brownish" red
they have and the red.

I've even seen some resistors where purple was close enough to red (or
blue) to be hard to figure out. Of course, if you have two resistors
from the same manufacturer, one with red and one with brown you can
easily tell the difference, but alone they aren't always easy.

Of course, compared to the small markings on 0402 (and smaller)
resistors, the colours are dead easy for most. Me, being nearsighted,
it's not to difficult, as long as I take my glasses off! :)

TTYL


'[EE]:: New data storage called RVD can store 256GB'
2006\12\03@095105 by Howard Winter
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Genome,

On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 02:55:38 +0800, Genome wrote:

> was not punch cards or tape used as storage when the first computer like
> mechanisms were invented.. a hole and no hole on paper.. this were a lot
> older than those vacuume tube computers.. they are more like type writers. I
> think.

Yes, Hollerith used punched cards for the US Census in 1890, processed electro-mechanically.  It meant the census
results were available before the next census was taken!  FORTRAN uses "H" to indicate a "Hollerith" data type
(character string).

Punched tape was used in 1944 by Colossus, the Lorenz-encryption cracking computer (which was electronic) and read
it at a speed that even these days is pretty staggering for paper tape (5000 char/sec).

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


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