Searching \ for '[EE]:: Data projector bulb costs' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/mems.htm?key=data
Search entire site for: ': Data projector bulb costs'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[EE]:: Data projector bulb costs'
2007\03\04@191921 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
Can anyone suggest a reasonable reason for the cost of bulbs for data
projectors. These seem to range in price from utterly laughable to
entirely unbelievable.

While the bulb needs suitable characteristics including, presumably,
proper spectral output, good lifetime, good source shape (suitable for
expanding by optics to a linear illumination field) and more, there
characteristics seem similar to what has been required from other
optical projectors in the past. The bulbs generally have related
optics but these should be reusable with a new bulb, especially so if
the bulb dies early in its expected lifetime.

Is this just a concerted ripoff or am I missing something.

if the former, has anyone had any success in adapting other bulbs for
DP use?




       Russell

2007\03\04@231229 by Cristóvão Dalla Costa

picon face
On 3/4/07, Russell McMahon <spam_OUTapptechTakeThisOuTspamparadise.net.nz> wrote:
>
> Can anyone suggest a reasonable reason for the cost of bulbs for data
> projectors. These seem to range in price from utterly laughable to
> entirely unbelievable.



I believe the cost can be explained by factoring the limited production;
compared to the number of televisions or computer monitors sold, which have
CRTs of similar construction, the number of projectors or replacement lamps
is pretty much insignificant.

Therefore, the lamps are either:

1 - manufactured by hand, with the associated costs of labour, etc
2 - manufactured by machine but due to the high cost of the machine (which
has to be divided among few bulbs) the bulbs turn out expensive

So, plain economics at work. If they were actually screwing the customers
(too much) certainly a third party would pop up offering cheaper replacement
bulbs.

2007\03\05@041448 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Mon, 05 Mar 2007 13:19:23 +1300, you wrote:

>Can anyone suggest a reasonable reason for the cost of bulbs for data
>projectors. These seem to range in price from utterly laughable to
>entirely unbelievable.
>
>While the bulb needs suitable characteristics including, presumably,
>proper spectral output, good lifetime, good source shape (suitable for
>expanding by optics to a linear illumination field) and more, there
>characteristics seem similar to what has been required from other
>optical projectors in the past.

Except previous projectors haven't had the same space constraints.

>The bulbs generally have related
>optics but these should be reusable with a new bulb, especially so if
>the bulb dies early in its expected lifetime.

This is typically just a reflector, so not a major cost issue. There are also safety aspects as the
reflector/housing provides some protection against explosion due to the the very high pressure in
the discharge tube. Alignment of the lamp in the reflector is probably somewhat critical, so
supplying these as a combined unit is probably the best technical and logistical solution.
I think the reflective surface may deteriorate over time as well.

Projector lamps are fairly exotic technology - if you've ever run a projector with the lid off
you'll be staggered by the intensity they acheive from a source about the size of a pea, most of
which is the thick glass.
I'm not sure how many manufacturers there are of them - Osram is used in all the projectors I've
taken apart - if they are the only makets then this would also go some way to explain the high cost.

2007\03\05@042337 by Robert Rolf

picon face
Cristóvão Dalla Costa wrote:
> On 3/4/07, Russell McMahon <.....apptechKILLspamspam@spam@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>>Can anyone suggest a reasonable reason for the cost of bulbs for data
>>projectors. These seem to range in price from utterly laughable to
>>entirely unbelievable.
>
> I believe the cost can be explained by factoring the limited production;
> compared to the number of televisions or computer monitors sold, which have
> CRTs of similar construction, the number of projectors or replacement lamps
> is pretty much insignificant.

> Therefore, the lamps are either:
>
> 1 - manufactured by hand, with the associated costs of labour, etc

NOT.

> 2 - manufactured by machine but due to the high cost of the machine (which
> has to be divided among few bulbs) the bulbs turn out expensive

Not really.
It's more a case of they can charge whatever the market will bear.
Just like ink jet printers. Cheap printer. Ink that costs more per ml than
the most expensive perfumes.

How much are you willing to pay for a part to keep your $2000 projector running?
10% of cost? 20%? 40%. They seem to have settled on 20% ($400 on an $2k projector)
so that's what they charge.

> So, plain economics at work. If they were actually screwing the customers
> (too much) certainly a third party would pop up offering cheaper replacement
> bulbs.

Except that the third party hasn't invested the million or so dollars to build
a bulb plant. And bulb specs are closely guarded secrets. Things like the gas
mixture and pressure are important to correct operation.

Our local glass workshop (chem lab) could build a new bulb for about what
mass produced ones cost (a few hundred dollars of time) so I KNOW we're getting
hosed.

Robert

2007\03\05@085124 by Cristóvão Dalla Costa

picon face
On 3/5/07, Robert Rolf <Robert.RolfspamKILLspamualberta.ca> wrote:
>
>
> > So, plain economics at work. If they were actually screwing the
> customers
> > (too much) certainly a third party would pop up offering cheaper
> replacement
> > bulbs.
>
> Except that the third party hasn't invested the million or so dollars to
> build
> a bulb plant. And bulb specs are closely guarded secrets. Things like the
> gas
> mixture and pressure are important to correct operation.


Doesn't that prove my point? $100M for a plant that builds 1M bulbs, thats
$100 per bulb. Add labour, materials, packaging, testing, profit of the
factory, profit of the retailer... Not far fetched.

Our local glass workshop (chem lab) could build a new bulb for about what
> mass produced ones cost (a few hundred dollars of time) so I KNOW we're
> getting
> hosed.


If you had to build 100k bulbs, how much would each one cost? Things that
you take for granted for small scale production (the lab itself, materials,
electricity, equipment) wouldn't be free anymore.

2007\03\05@093240 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>> Except that the third party hasn't invested the million or so
>> dollars to
>> build
>> a bulb plant. And bulb specs are closely guarded secrets. Things
>> like the
>> gas
>> mixture and pressure are important to correct operation.

> Doesn't that prove my point? $100M for a plant that builds 1M bulbs,
> thats
> $100 per bulb. Add labour, materials, packaging, testing, profit of
> the
> factory, profit of the retailer... Not far fetched.

The bulbs seem to cost a minimum of about $NZ400 and can go to over
$1000. It's not unusual to have  a$600 bulb in a $1200 projector. This
is for a 150W - 200W halogen lamp.

Data Projectors are not an especially low volume item and are getting
more popular by the month.
Notwithstanding all the argument about factories and volumes and ...
something is wrong!

I will be investigating a bulb "rebuild" for a friend just to see what
is involved and will be interested in hearing from anyone who has
heard of this being done.

Cost of bulb ~~$500+.
Cost of used projector with bulb $700-$800
Chance of letting smoke out of eg DLP while playing = ???
Worth a try methinks.




   Russell

2007\03\05@095512 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 03:32:37 +1300, you wrote:

>>> Except that the third party hasn't invested the million or so
>>> dollars to
>>> build
>>> a bulb plant. And bulb specs are closely guarded secrets. Things
>>> like the
>>> gas
>>> mixture and pressure are important to correct operation.
>
>> Doesn't that prove my point? $100M for a plant that builds 1M bulbs,
>> thats
>> $100 per bulb. Add labour, materials, packaging, testing, profit of
>> the
>> factory, profit of the retailer... Not far fetched.
>
>The bulbs seem to cost a minimum of about $NZ400 and can go to over
>$1000. It's not unusual to have  a$600 bulb in a $1200 projector. This
>is for a 150W - 200W halogen lamp.

It is not a halogen lamp. Modern projectors use ultra-high pressure mercury lamps

http://www.ercservice.com/lamps/philips/PhilipsUHPLamps.html

2007\03\05@103931 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
>>The bulbs seem to cost a minimum of about $NZ400 and can go to over
>>$1000. It's not unusual to have  a$600 bulb in a $1200 projector.
>>This
>>is for a 150W - 200W halogen lamp.
>
> It is not a halogen lamp. Modern projectors use ultra-high pressure
> mercury lamps
>
> http://www.ercservice.com/lamps/philips/PhilipsUHPLamps.html

OK - ultra-high pressure mercury halogen oxygen lamp :-).

That's an extremely good page and answered many questions that I had.
It's written by a Philips man with a large axe to grind, but is still
useful.
It's taken the edge off my enthusiasm to "play", but also showed in
which areas playing is liable to be most fruitful.



       Russell


2007\03\05@110214 by Derward

picon face

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Harrison" <.....mikeKILLspamspam.....whitewing.co.uk>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <EraseMEpiclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu>
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2007 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [EE]:: Data projector bulb costs


{Quote hidden}

> --

2007\03\07@075858 by Martin Klingensmith

picon face
Russell,
The diyaudio.com forums seem to have very in-depth information on DIY
projectors. I'm sure there are explanations of why the bulb is so expensive
and what people do to circumvent the issue since they're all trying to do it
on the cheap.
--
Martin K

On 3/5/07, Russell McMahon <apptechspamspam_OUTparadise.net.nz> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2007 , 2008 only
- Today
- New search...