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'[EE]:: DVD copying?'
2007\05\01@201330 by Russell McMahon

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flavicon
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Under EE as a considered choice rather than OT.

I have a requirement to make 250 to 400 DVD's from a single master.
Source material is mainly JPG photos.
I may have this requirement on an ongoing basis in future with
different source material.

Comments on best ways to achieve this are invited.

There are people here who offer the service but the cost exceeds what
the job will support. The DVD selling price is small and must mainly
support the work required to acquire and present the source material
(photos). Copying using a PC with one or more DVDw drives would be an
economically viable solution if I could find a trained monkey to
change dis[c|k]s and click the go-round-again button. Buying a DVD
copier is not a currently financially viable option - it may become so
if more jobs like this eventuate. I assume that places like China and
India offer such services at minimal cost if volumes are sufficient.

Up to 500 volume the local services tend to use DVD-R. Over 500 volume
pressing becomes more economic.



       Russell

2007\05\01@203407 by Marcel Duchamp

picon face
Russell McMahon wrote:
> Under EE as a considered choice rather than OT.
>
> I have a requirement to make 250 to 400 DVD's from a single master.
> Source material is mainly JPG photos.
> I may have this requirement on an ongoing basis in future with
> different source material.
>
> Comments on best ways to achieve this are invited.
>

Help us out a bit...

1. What is the amount you been quoted for this work?

2. What is the amount you are willing to pay?


2007\05\01@204213 by Mark Rages

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On 5/1/07, Marcel Duchamp <spam_OUTmarcel.duchampTakeThisOuTspamsbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Russell McMahon wrote:
> > Under EE as a considered choice rather than OT.
> >
> > I have a requirement to make 250 to 400 DVD's from a single master.
> > Source material is mainly JPG photos.
> > I may have this requirement on an ongoing basis in future with
> > different source material.
> >
> > Comments on best ways to achieve this are invited.
> >
>
> Help us out a bit...
>
> 1. What is the amount you been quoted for this work?
>
> 2. What is the amount you are willing to pay?
>

Also, the process is divided into two parts:

1. Creating the DVD image from the source material (authoring)

2. Duplicating the DVDs from the image.

You're not clear if you need help on #1 or not.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
Mark Rages, Engineer
Midwest Telecine LLC
.....markragesKILLspamspam@spam@midwesttelecine.com

2007\05\01@220500 by Russell McMahon

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>> 1. What is the amount you been quoted for this work?

Very reasonable.

>> 2. What is the amount you are willing to pay?

Totally unreasonably low ;-)


> Also, the process is divided into two parts:
> 1. Creating the DVD image from the source material (authoring)
> 2. Duplicating the DVDs from the image.
> You're not clear if you need help on #1 or not.

I would provide a DVDR containing a completed product which I wanted
copies of.
This could eg be copied by a bulk DVD copier.

I am aware that my hopes are unreasonable.
It's not vastly important in this case but it sets a precedent for
future similar tasks.

Multiply all prices by 0.75 to get $US
Prices include local GST tax of 12.5%

Media cost for a DVD-R in a 'wedding cake' 100 pack is $NZ0.54 for
Imation brand white inkjet printable.
Paper sleeves add 2.5 cents more.

Cost of copying to DVD-R in 300 volume has been quoted at $NZ2.36 each
Difference per copy is about $1.80 or for 300 is over $500.

These are photos for a school ball for which I'll be taking the
photos.
This is not my day job :-)
Photography is an obsess... er hobby and it is nice for it
occasionally to make some money to keep my wife happy with my
purchases - and I also like it to be self funding.
Most things I take photos of don't pay anything for the privilege.
It's also nice to be paid something for something which one might
happily do for free, depending on time and other priorities.
The time spent per $ earned is less important than the absolute $
earned.
In this case my aim is to clear $1,000 after all expenses taxes etc
and in return give all students a DVD of most of the photos.
By any normal standards that's a small sum for the work which will be
involved, firstly in taking the photos and then in preparing a DVD.

We're working on a school website 'pre-viewing and right of veto'
arrangement prior to the DVD being made to satisfy local privacy
concerns.
That adds some extra work.
Overall this gives the students a far far far better deal than
previously - they can each print unlimited photos of their choice at
photo site rates.

They are adding the cost of the DVD to the ball ticket cost.
The cost is fixed and 'rather low'.
I need to minimise production cost to make my desired net profit.
So ...

I will also be offering inkjet printed A4 prints at say $5 for those
who are interested.
With CIS ink and cheap but good paper that's mostly profit (plus
labour plus printer amortisation plus ...)

So. OK.
Cough.
The DVD return to me is $NZ5.
$4.55 after GST :-(
300 sales takes $3.33 of that for my target $1000.
That leaves $1.22 for ALL other expenses (not counting profit from
prints).
Less than $1.22 would be highly desirable.
Sales may be as high as 350. And may not.

I could have said $7.50 / DVD and we'd be home by now, but I didn't,
and ... .
Next time.

I'd be happy to do it on a couple of PCs here over a week if I can
find a suitably trained monkey to swap disks. (Any other suitably
trained animal that would work for peanuts would do).



       Russell








2007\05\01@232740 by Jake Anderson

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Russell McMahon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I'm sure you have enough bits in your junk box to rig up some sort of
automated copying type doohickey.
a screw thread type vertical lifting mechanism, an air powered sucker
and a worm drive type rotary table.

put blanks on the left, cd drive in the middle, output spindle/basket on
the right.

come down, till microswitch trips, activate sucker
raise up, rotate to over the cd tray, come down a fixed amount (another
micro switch?) and release air.
tell PC to burn, when done pick cd up and keep rotating till you drop it.
2 motor drives, should be achievable with 3A controllers.

2007\05\01@233318 by Mark Rages

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On 5/1/07, Russell McMahon <apptechspamKILLspamparadise.net.nz> wrote:
>
> I'd be happy to do it on a couple of PCs here over a week if I can
> find a suitably trained monkey to swap disks. (Any other suitably
> trained animal that would work for peanuts would do).
>
>
>
>         Russell
>

http://www.sentex.net/~mwandel/tech/changer.html

Linux can be set to automatically burn when a black CD-R is inserted.
And the burning program can be set to eject when done.  So I'm sure a
monkey could be trained to do the swapping.

Regards,
Mark
markrages@gmail
--
Mark Rages, Engineer
Midwest Telecine LLC
.....markragesKILLspamspam.....midwesttelecine.com

2007\05\01@235130 by Joshua Shriver

picon face
Do you factor in time in respect to cost? If you figure it up:

300 disc * 15min (per disc) == 4500 minutes == 3days 3 hours of
continous burning assuming you dont have any bad disc in the batch,
which in a bundle of 100 I usually get 2-3 that are dead.

Assuming you burn even at 8hours a day like a full time job that would
take you 9 days to copy.

If you have someplace press the discs, youàe going to look at the cost
of pressing + the cost of shipping.

A quick google search and I came across this:  http://www.cdrdvdr.com/
$0.57 US per disc which isnt bad. Im sure there are others out there
who might be cheaper.

Another route to go is check with local university CS departments and they such.
Maybe check with a local LUG and see if anyone recommends any local or
inexpensive services.

Just some ideas :) I have the photobug too.
BTW if you going to do this, and want to use DVD thats a lot of room
just for pictures, maybe you can author it as a slideshow DVD/data DVD
hybrid. That way they can pull the raw images off and just pop it in a
DVD player to view it.

g´luck!

-Josh

2007\05\01@235710 by Dr Skip

picon face
A few thoughts:

You don't mention a cost for printing on the CD, yet you're paying for
inkjet printable DVDs. Ink can be costly if you're counting digits to
the right of the decimal... ;)

Many authoring or copy programs will offer to do another copy with a
button on the screen after it finishes the first. Keep the mouse on it,
use a second machine, and swap disks and click. No real effort - just
background processing and it's free. In a few days it's done.

"Hire a high school kid". Those kind of dollars might excite one...

Lease a copier instead of buying.

Encode the pics so they fit on a CD instead, print in 4x6 fine, but
higher sizes are a bit fuzzy. You provide the 'enlargement' service.
They get snapshots and TV/PC viewing and scrapbook prints. Cost per
disk, per copy, and time needed go way down. Additional revenue
potential. Only publish the best 100 or so...

If you can't limit the pics, fill a CD and put the rest on a web site
for download. Not everyone will want all the not-so-good pics.

Consider this an investment and use some of the $1000 profit. That may
be a bit much for this anyway, once you minus the cost of educating you
to say $7.50 next time. ;)  If you do a good job you could get referral
business, and the less profit the more you are a 'nice guy' anyway. 1 or
2 weddings or such and you won't even think about a few hundred less
profit on this one.

Use the school's computer lab if they have one, argue the low price
assumed they'd offer it, and use 30 machines at once.

Check with the school or it's purchasing folks for contract rates the
school system may have and have it done under their umbrella.

Offer the copy service an ad on the disk, discretely done, in exchange
for your low rate.


OK, one of these should work!

-Skip



Russell McMahon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2007\05\02@003333 by Richard Prosser

picon face
Is it possible to hire some sort of magazine loaded DVD writer ??
Or maybe instead of a trained monkey, you could use a semi-trained schoolkid?

Does the $3.33 include GST? If so then you should be able to get a
rebate if you are paying GST on the delivered product.

RP

On 02/05/07, Russell McMahon <EraseMEapptechspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTparadise.net.nz> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\05\02@013853 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On May 1, 2007, at 7:04 PM, Russell McMahon wrote:

> I'd be happy to do it on a couple of PCs here over a week if I can
> find a suitably trained monkey to swap disks.

> These are photos for a school ball for which I'll be taking the
> photos.
>
Are there not a plethora of trainable monkeys involved, then?
One step up (?) from "do you want fries with that?"

BillW

2007\05\02@014322 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On May 1, 2007, at 8:51 PM, Joshua Shriver wrote:

> 300 disc * 15min (per disc) == 4500 minutes == 3days 3 hours of
> continous burning assuming you dont have any bad disc in the batch,
> which in a bundle of 100 I usually get 2-3 that are dead.
>
One assumes more than one DVD-writer...  When I did ~20 DVDs of
the school play for the participants, I used two systems that had
DVD writers and it went pretty quick.  After all, you can mostly
do this WHILE you're doing your "day job."  (no, I wouldn't want
to do 300!)

BillW

2007\05\02@015949 by Pic

flavicon
face
Russell

I have personally sat in front of a bank of PC's before - running off 200
copies of CD's (when it took 20mins per 600mb disc)  I cant remember if I
had 2,3,or 4 pcs running the discs off but it WAS mind numbingly dull.

I actually spent a couple of years making master discs for magazine
coverdiscs so I know the subject fairly well.

If you can be bothered to throw a cheap pc together with 3 writers and a
boot drive - a program called padus disc juggler will happily write to all 3
writers at once.

(bear in mind I haven't checked the existence of this software for several
years)

However it could triple the speed of writing and any 500mhz + pc should cope
ok.

I used to write masters for pressing on a 486 DX266 and it took several
hours !!!  We had to master the image to a clean hdd first then write on a
KODAK 1x writer that was the size of an AV Cinema Surround sound amp and
then it would take an hour to write and an hour to verify.. Those were the
days. Oh did I mention each gold disc was £5 ($15) LOL and my boss would
have a fit if the write failed for any reason !

Anyhow - as I'm literally just down the road - if I can help just say.

Lastly - one thing I have noticed is that some of the cheap DVD-writers seem
to cope for about 500 odd dvd's before they start being unreliable. This is
in no way an accurate statement, just something that’s a feeling. I have
gone through probably 8-10 writers over the years since I started writing
discs  in '94. In all that time I have found Pioneer to be reliable but on
the expensive side.

I almost certainly have 1 or 2 spare writers if you need any.

Chris




{Original Message removed}

2007\05\02@043356 by Geo

flavicon
face
On 2 May 2007, at 14:04, Russell McMahon wrote:


> These are photos for a school ball for which I'll be taking the
> photos.

Create one copy and sell to school geek with warning not to copy
and give to all his friends - binary tree says everyone gets a copy in
a week.
Of course you may have copy-protected it...


George Smith

2007\05\02@071757 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I'd be happy to do it on a couple of PCs here over a week if
>I can find a suitably trained monkey to swap disks. (Any other
>suitably trained animal that would work for peanuts would do).

perhaps Cinderella could do it - well someone from the ball anyway, and get
their copy for free.

>We're working on a school website 'pre-viewing and right of
>veto' arrangement prior to the DVD being made to satisfy
>local privacy concerns.
>That adds some extra work.

As part of the preview get people to note who is in which photo (there
position in the photo as well) and have this as a text file on the CD. Also
provide the school with a copy of the CD for their archives.

2007\05\02@110419 by alan smith

picon face
Russell
 
 Don't you have kids...ie...trained monkeys?  Serious...thats all you need so get a 12 yr old neighbor to do it....they just have to remember it takes 20 min to copy, and so every half hour go put a new one in and start it.  Give em a quarter or equiv value for doing it.
 
 I would say....train your wife...but...im sure...if like mine....that wouldnt go over well..specially if she thinks you consider her a trained monkey  :-)

Russell McMahon <apptechspamspam_OUTparadise.net.nz> wrote:
 >> 1. What is the amount you been quoted for this work?

Very reasonable.

>> 2. What is the amount you are willing to pay?

Totally unreasonably low ;-)


> Also, the process is divided into two parts:
> 1. Creating the DVD image from the source material (authoring)
> 2. Duplicating the DVDs from the image.
> You're not clear if you need help on #1 or not.

I would provide a DVDR containing a completed product which I wanted
copies of.
This could eg be copied by a bulk DVD copier.

I am aware that my hopes are unreasonable.
It's not vastly important in this case but it sets a precedent for
future similar tasks.

Multiply all prices by 0.75 to get $US
Prices include local GST tax of 12.5%

Media cost for a DVD-R in a 'wedding cake' 100 pack is $NZ0.54 for
Imation brand white inkjet printable.
Paper sleeves add 2.5 cents more.

Cost of copying to DVD-R in 300 volume has been quoted at $NZ2.36 each
Difference per copy is about $1.80 or for 300 is over $500.

These are photos for a school ball for which I'll be taking the
photos.
This is not my day job :-)
Photography is an obsess... er hobby and it is nice for it
occasionally to make some money to keep my wife happy with my
purchases - and I also like it to be self funding.
Most things I take photos of don't pay anything for the privilege.
It's also nice to be paid something for something which one might
happily do for free, depending on time and other priorities.
The time spent per $ earned is less important than the absolute $
earned.
In this case my aim is to clear $1,000 after all expenses taxes etc
and in return give all students a DVD of most of the photos.
By any normal standards that's a small sum for the work which will be
involved, firstly in taking the photos and then in preparing a DVD.

We're working on a school website 'pre-viewing and right of veto'
arrangement prior to the DVD being made to satisfy local privacy
concerns.
That adds some extra work.
Overall this gives the students a far far far better deal than
previously - they can each print unlimited photos of their choice at
photo site rates.

They are adding the cost of the DVD to the ball ticket cost.
The cost is fixed and 'rather low'.
I need to minimise production cost to make my desired net profit.
So ...

I will also be offering inkjet printed A4 prints at say $5 for those
who are interested.
With CIS ink and cheap but good paper that's mostly profit (plus
labour plus printer amortisation plus ...)

So. OK.
Cough.
The DVD return to me is $NZ5.
$4.55 after GST :-(
300 sales takes $3.33 of that for my target $1000.
That leaves $1.22 for ALL other expenses (not counting profit from
prints).
Less than $1.22 would be highly desirable.
Sales may be as high as 350. And may not.

I could have said $7.50 / DVD and we'd be home by now, but I didn't,
and ... .
Next time.

I'd be happy to do it on a couple of PCs here over a week if I can
find a suitably trained monkey to swap disks. (Any other suitably
trained animal that would work for peanuts would do).



Russell








2007\05\02@151034 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 06:13 PM 5/1/2007, Russell McMahon wrote:

>I have a requirement to make 250 to 400 DVD's from a single master.

Not sure if this helps, but Nero allows burning to multiple recorders
in a system.  Don't know what the limit is but it might be worth checking out.

Cheapo DVD burners (Samsung, LG, etc) are selling for about $35
Canadian just down the road from me.  Not sure if you are getting
those kinds of prices where you are but I could see a box with 4 or 6
burners being not all that expensive.


Another thought: I've seen pictures of a printer that had a robotic
arm that moves blank discs from one pile to the burner built into the
bottom of the printer, then moved each printed disc from the printer
tray to the pile of finished discs, then grabbed the disc from the
burner and moved it to the printer tray.  Give it a stack of blanks
and walk away.

Don't know the price, though.

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <@spam@dwaynerKILLspamspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 22 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2006)
 .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-
    `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.

2007\05\03@232103 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
Dwayne Reid wrote:
{Quote hidden}

http://www.primera.com/bravoII_disc_publisher.html

About US$3k. Ours burned/printed thousands of CDs, reasonably happy with it.
IIRC, it takes a couple of hours to produce 50 disks (it usually runs
unattended).

However, the only reason we decided to buy the unit, is flexibility. We
wanted to be able to quickly update the content, and run small batches of
custom CDs for customers. It's definitely cheaper to have large quantities
of CDs produced by a professional shop.

I would say that Russell's best bet, is to find a company that would burn
the CDs for him (as someone had already suggested). He'll never be able to
justify the cost of buying the duplicator, or paying a human being to do the
job.

Do what you're best at, and pay others to do what they're better at than
you.

Vitaliy

2007\05\03@234642 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On May 3, 2007, at 8:20 PM, Vitaliy wrote:

>> Another thought: I've seen pictures of a printer that had a
>> robotic arm that ...  Give it a stack of blanks and walk away.
>>
>> Don't know the price, though.
>
> http://www.primera.com/bravoII_disc_publisher.html
>
> About US$3k.

They seem to be available down to about $1400 these days.
http://www.supermediastore.com/publisher.html

BillW

2007\05\06@221820 by Denny Esterline

picon face
> Under EE as a considered choice rather than OT.
>
> I have a requirement to make 250 to 400 DVD's from a single master.
> Source material is mainly JPG photos.
> I may have this requirement on an ongoing basis in future with
> different source material.
>
> Comments on best ways to achieve this are invited.
>

I just came accross this and thought it might be relevant to your endevor -
www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=528&name=CD-DVD-Dup
licators

Broad selection of types and prices.

-Denny

2007\05\10@104400 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Dwayne,

On Wed, 02 May 2007 13:10:31 -0600, Dwayne Reid wrote:

> Not sure if this helps, but Nero allows burning to multiple recorders
> in a system.

Are you sure about this?  I have Nero and had heard this, but when I tried it there was no sign of this feature being in there.  With multiple burners it
allows you to choose which one, but if doing multiple copies it would only use the one you chose.

If you do know how to get it to do this, please share!  :-)

Cheers,




Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\05\10@110013 by peter green

flavicon
face

> Are you sure about this?  I have Nero and had heard this, but
> when I tried it there was no sign of this feature being in there.
>  With multiple burners it
> allows you to choose which one, but if doing multiple copies it
> would only use the one you chose.
>
> If you do know how to get it to do this, please share!  :-)
there should be a checkbox labeled use multiple recorders in there, never tried using it though.

you are using the classic nero burning rom interface and not the crappy nero express interface right?


2007\05\10@125701 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 08:29 AM 5/10/2007, Howard Winter wrote:
>Dwayne,
>
>On Wed, 02 May 2007 13:10:31 -0600, Dwayne Reid wrote:
>
> > Not sure if this helps, but Nero allows burning to multiple recorders
> > in a system.
>
>Are you sure about this?  I have Nero and had heard this, but when I
>tried it there was no sign of this feature being in there.  With
>multiple burners it allows you to choose which one, but if doing
>multiple copies it would only use the one you chose.


I don't have more than a single burner in any of my machines, but
Nero's help file has this to say about the subject:

Multiple Recorder

Owners of the retail version of Nero can also burn simultaneously on
more than one recorder if they have more than one installed.


I assume that the "retail" version mentioned above includes the
downloaded version purchased from Nero.  In other words, I assumed
that Nero is trying to say that this feature is not available with
the Express version sold with OEM burners.

I've had friends tell me that they use this feature - that's how I
knew about it.

dwayne


--
Dwayne Reid   <KILLspamdwaynerKILLspamspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 22 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2006)
 .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-.   .-
    `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'   `-'
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.

2007\05\10@130737 by Robert Rolf

picon face
Dwayne Reid wrote:

{Quote hidden}

The OEM versions of Nero are also locked to a particular burner brand.
In my dual DVD machine, it will write to the Acer, but NOT to the LG.
"This drive not authorized for use".

R

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