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'[EE]:!! (S/N Ration Down The Toilet)'
2002\09\18@075219 by David Duffy

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At 09:10 AM 18/09/02 +0200, you wrote:
>http://www.keelynet.com/energy/cornish.htm

<RANT ON>
This is a prime example of what not to post under the EE tag.
EE used to have mainly useful stuff in it but not anymore.
I've resisted saying anything until now but I really feel that a lot
of this type of stuff belongs in the proper news groups. There's a
ton of them out there for the using, catering for almost any subject
you care to think of. Maybe I'm just in a cranky mood but I think
we really need to cut a lot of the crap from this list. It's not meant
to be a everything-to-everyone list, it's a PIC list with some of the
ASSOCIATED and RELEVENT content to round it out. So many
people have left this list over the years and I'm starting to feel the
same way!  It's a wonder the admin's haven't run away screaming.
<RANT OFF> <FLAME SUIT ON>

___________________________________________
David Duffy Audio Visual Devices P/L
U8, 9-11 Trade St, Cleveland 4163 Australia
Ph: +61 7 38210362 Fax: +61 7 38210281
New Web: http://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au
___________________________________________

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2002\09\18@091747 by Olin Lathrop

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> This is a prime example of what not to post under the EE tag.
> EE used to have mainly useful stuff in it but not anymore.
> I've resisted saying anything until now but I really feel that a lot
> of this type of stuff belongs in the proper news groups. There's a
> ton of them out there for the using, catering for almost any subject
> you care to think of. Maybe I'm just in a cranky mood but I think
> we really need to cut a lot of the crap from this list. It's not meant
> to be a everything-to-everyone list, it's a PIC list with some of the
> ASSOCIATED and RELEVENT content to round it out. So many
> people have left this list over the years and I'm starting to feel the
> same way!  It's a wonder the admin's haven't run away screaming.

I agree this was a bit off topic, but I also think it is useful to discuss
it.  The PIClist is of course about PICs.  But, PICs are always part of a
larger system, and there is little point learning all about PICs without
also understanding the systems they will be in, often controlling.  The next
immediate layer out from the PIC is the electronics, which is what the EE
tag is for.  Often discussions go further afield so they are no longer EE,
but still relevant to embedded systems.  I would hate to see such
discussions about physics, power conversion, level sensing, etc, squashed.

I do embedded system design for a living, and one of the things I enjoy
about it is that they are not just software and EE problems.  You always
have to understand and often get deep into the overall system.  General
physics knowledge beyond EE comes in useful quite often.

However, I recognize that some people prefer to specialize on just the
software (I see lots of resumes like that, although we leave them for
someone else to hire), or perhaps don't want to hear about anything past EE.
I therefore suggest another tag for general science or physics discussion of
things that might have some relevance to embedded systems.  Perhaps [PHY]:
or [SCI]:?  This should not be taken as an excuse to increase list volume,
but rather to properly tag messages that are currently being posted anyway
but with [EE]: because that's the closest choice.  This would allow those
that don't care to shut it off separately.


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Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com

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2002\09\18@100340 by Russell McMahon

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> At 09:10 AM 18/09/02 +0200, you wrote:
> >http://www.keelynet.com/energy/cornish.htm
>
> <RANT ON>

I'll see your <RANT> and raise you an <ENTHUSE>

That was a marvellous post.
It was related to electrical engineering rather more peripherally than
some - it's more an energy related matter. I thought it was utterly
marvellous to see this as it prompted some thoughts hidden away in the
deeper reaches of my brain. Perhaps under OT it may have been better.

In that it touches on fuel cells, energy sources, reaction energies etc it
has some relationship to things electrical and not especially much to do
with PICs. I'd be happy for such matters to be aired in OT but very very sad
to see them excluded.

Hmm - <ENTHUSE> doesn't seem to have a way of being turned off.

> EE used to have mainly useful stuff in it but not anymore.

I'm pleased to say that I feel that you have formed a mistaken impression
:-).
I'm not trying to be argumentative (it comes without trying :-) ) but I
suspect that the general noise in OT and the latest noise discussion may
have given you a feeling that things are not quite as they really are.

Lets take a backward look up the list and include EVERY topic I find
excluding only those which are discussing message signal to noise ratios.
Any omissions are due to rough & quick manual search - not by an intention
to deceive.

Hydrogen / Aluminium                ???
Alpha particle detectors.
Eagle printing.                            ?
Simple temperature switch
Printer port control software        ?
Counter with O/C outputs
Measuring instantaneous current
Detecting vertical sync
Infrared communications
Humidity sensor
Measuring the peak value of an AC square wave.

and so on.

Now lets take 5 page-up jumps and pick the subsequent oldest new EE tag

Classic Tektronix scope problem
Problem opening .... in Eagle        ?
Infrared detector (15 Sept)
How to fade a LED
Basic Electronics
Switching higher voltages (started off on subject and went OT but nobody
changed the tag - original tag was fine)
SMT board layout advice (13 Sept)

20 page ups at a time.

AuVic needs help .. EE .. motor control. (11 Sept)
Superb Science archive [[incl much electronics]]
Driving a 15W LED (7 Sept)
Tiny 16 bit ADCs (6 Sept)
& Baking SMD PCBs.

ALL these would qualify as "recent".

Now not all these are everyone's cup of tea, but the overwhelming majority
seem (to me) to be reasonably well related to the EE tag. And most are quite
interesting (IMHO of course). Perhaps there is an arguable need for a PC or
COMP or similar tag to handle the PCB/Compiler/... material

> Maybe I'm just in a cranky mood

Possibly :-)
Seriously though - having looked at the above, do you feel that any or most
of them don't belong here under EE?

> we really need to cut a lot of the crap from this list. It's not meant
> to be a everything-to-everyone list,

There are rules to restrain most of us most of the time (even me). Personal
abuse, spam, Religion, Sex, Politics seem to be banned in any but most
passing form AFAIR.

> So many people have left this list over the years and I'm starting to feel
the
> same way!

Some are indeed driven off but more are generally trying to get a life (for
which one needs to cut off one's internet at ground level :-)  ) and this is
often enough an excuse of sorts rather than the major reason as far as I can
see. (This is not the first time I've thought about just this point.)


> It's a wonder the admin's haven't run away screaming.

Oh, they have !. For one reason or another.
When did anyone hear from our great benefactor Jory whose twinkle in the eye
became this fantastic resource. Youngsters amongst us think that Jory is
akin to Santa Claus (both in reality and beneficence). [[I'll help you
cheat - onlist it appears to have been on April 7th this year when he posted
a request for a PCB house capable of making a 12 layer PCB overnight. He
posted without a proper tag (quite understandably) and Sean B reposted for
him under [EE]: . Regrettably there were no responses.

James N ran screaming only somewhat from the arena after the abuse which
arose after the September 11 debate last year and now takes a very active
but much less visible background role and perverts true PIC believers with
promises of a processor that runs 4 times faster per clock speed and has had
the worst aspects of its architecture fixed.  :-)

> <RANT OFF> <FLAME SUIT ON>

<ENTHUSE> still stuck on, it seems.


       Russell McMahon

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