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'[EE:] microGUI, are there others?'
2003\10\06@010220 by John Pearson

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www.rhombusinc.com/microgui.html
I found this neat micro processor interface. This is the first time I have seen something like this.

I would like to incorporate the possible use of this GUI in my processor code.

Are there others, and if so, do they use the same command formats?

Is there a particular microGUI that is considered the "Industry Standard".
Is this done with Visual Basic?
Thanks

John


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2003\10\06@093521 by Chuck Hellebuyck

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Labview is more of an industry standard GUI.

Microgui though, is inexpensive and I find it fairly easy to use,
especially with PicBasic or MBasic programs.
I believe it is written in Visual Basic but you'd have to ask Rhombus
that question to be sure.

--- John Pearson <spam_OUTxeroTakeThisOuTspamCMC.NET> wrote:
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2003\10\06@111758 by David Lawrence

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I do not know of others - but OCXs for each control are readily
available and then write your own VB communications to the PIC. But that
will cost considerably more ($1k+) plus VB and plus your time.

Intro pricing of MicroGUI is $14.00 including free future updates.

As Chuck says Labview is a GUI standard but my understanding is that it
is restricted to Instrumentation, whereas MicroGUI is for PICs and other
Micros.

David Lawrence
davidspamKILLspamrhombus-tek.com


{Original Message removed}

2003\10\06@120729 by Alan B. Pearce

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>As Chuck says Labview is a GUI standard but my understanding is
>that it is restricted to Instrumentation, whereas MicroGUI is
>for PICs and other Micros.

No not by any means.

Labview was originally designed for the control of instrumentation, but
these days it gets used considerably wider than that. One colleague of mine
uses it purely for massaging data that has been received back from
spacecraft. It is just so easy to program for this sort of data massaging
and display that things like VB or any of the flavours of C, Pascal and the
like take too long.

I had another colleague write a GUI in Labview to allow me to send text
strings to a device I designed, and then read the results from some
instruments, and store them in an Excel file as a calibration table. This
sort of data handling is extremely easy in Labview.

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2003\10\06@142737 by Sergio Masci

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----- Original Message -----
From: John Pearson <.....xeroKILLspamspam.....CMC.NET>
To: <EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 6:04 AM
Subject: [EE:] microGUI, are there others?


> http://www.rhombusinc.com/microgui.html
>
> I found this neat micro processor interface. This is the first time I have
seen something like this.
{Quote hidden}

The XCSB language will have an interface to the IPAD-Pro core. This will allow
you draw your virtual console on a graphics screen, attach code directly to the
virtual controls and run this code directly on one or more remote MCUs. This
already works as a product in its own right for self hosted code written in
C/C++ and native assembler but currently requires a user written interface layer
for remote MCUs. The XCASM assembler is also available as part of the dev
system. This is a feature rich meta assembler which allows code to be written
for user defined processors. XCSB is built on top of XCASM with a view to
supporting multiple processor architectures.

XCASM for the PIC also supports page management (inserting page select
instructions where necessary), code profiling (to optimise the page management
and generates thread listings) and multipass assembly (to allow code to be moved
around and generated depending on user defined criteria).

All products derived from the IPAD-Pro core come with a self hosting dev system
and run native on Linux under X11 (X Windows), SVGALIB and FBDEV and will also
run on a bare bones MSDOS box with an SVGA adaptor, on Win98 and OS2 in
protected mode and Sun Solaris under X11.

Regards
Sergio Masci
http://www.xcprod.com

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2003\10\06@150849 by Richard.Prosser

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John
I have used "Easy Control" from http://www.easyvitools.com but it doesn't
seem as complete as the rhombusinc version. You have to derive your own
interface and code all the micro functions yourself - they only provide the
PC display modules. They do go a bit further into ethernet compatibility
however so you can monitor a micro system from a remote PC (if you have a
local PC to act as a server).

Richard P





http://www.rhombusinc.com/microgui.html

I found this neat micro processor interface. This is the first time I have
seen something like this.

I would like to incorporate the possible use of this GUI in my processor
code.

Are there others, and if so, do they use the same command formats?

Is there a particular microGUI that is considered the "Industry Standard".

Is this done with Visual Basic?

Thanks

John


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2003\10\07@110230 by Morgan Olsson

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As PC and flatscreen costs are lowering all the time, I have too been looking about how to get GUI easily and without cost of expensive Microsoft OS and license trouble for every unit, and expensive dev tools.

Have not tried anything yet, but Linux + some easy programming environment seem to be he way (not being very interested in learnig "too" much programming)... found:

http://hbasic.sourceforge.net/
http://gambas.sourceforge.net/
 (in Lindows Click-n-Run: http://www.lindows.com/lindows_products_details.php?id=9261)

/Morgan
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2003\10\07@120439 by Bob Blick

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Morgan Olsson said:

> Have not tried anything yet, but Linux + some easy programming
> environment seem to be he way (not being very interested in learnig
> "too" much programming)... found:

How about Perl and Tk? Works for me.

Cheers,

Bob

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2003\10\07@134201 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> How about Perl and Tk? Works for me.

Yuk (Perl) and fantastic (Tk). I would suggest Python/Tkinter, or
Tcl/Tk. Notice the common part in these three alternatives :)

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\10\07@140713 by Bob Blick

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Wouter van Ooijen said:
>> How about Perl and Tk? Works for me.
>
> Yuk (Perl) and fantastic (Tk). I would suggest Python/Tkinter, or
> Tcl/Tk. Notice the common part in these three alternatives :)

Huh?

My post was in reply to someone suggesting BASIC, and you are dissing Perl
instead?

I certainly hope it's only because you are taking time to carefully
compose a message detailing all the reasons why BASIC in any shape is bad
:-)

Really, so many good things can be done quickly and easily in Perl, and it
is way more popular than Python.

Python might have had a chance to catch on if it hadn't been for the use
of indents rather than brackets. As it stands, it is doomed to always be a
niche language like FORTH.

Cheers,

Bob

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2003\10\07@142338 by Gordon Williams

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Python is a great language whether for simple or complex things.  Dead
simple to learn because of its clean easy-to-read syntax and very powerful.
I did use Tkinter, but gave up and switched over to wxPython as my GUI of
choice.  Tkinter was too slow for plotting large numbers of lines.  Combined
with Boa (rad ide) it makes it a snap to develop apps to communicate with
RS232.

http://www.python.org
http://www.wxpython.org
http://boa-constructor.sourceforge.net/

regards,

Gordon Williams

{Original Message removed}

2003\10\07@143546 by Wouter van Ooijen

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> Really, so many good things can be done quickly and easily in
> Perl, and it is way more popular than Python.

If *that's* the criterium I can think of a few other languages that are
much more popular than Perl (but which I would rather not use, and I
guess you wouldn't either).

> Python might have had a chance to catch on if it hadn't been
> for the use
> of indents rather than brackets. As it stands, it is doomed
> to always be a
> niche language like FORTH.

At least you seem to know one of the (less important) characteristics of
Python!

But the gist of my remark was that tk in its various forms seems to be a
very good graphics library (judging from the fact that it is used in
three otherwise very different laguages).

Wouter van Ooijen

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2003\10\07@151017 by David Lawrence

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Hi Morgan:

If you are wanting to add GUI to a volume product then the survey below
may be of interest. It addresses the options for GUIs using custom LCD
displays and all the available software - includes SwellSoftware,
Segger, Amulette etc..

MicroGUI serves a totally different market - it offers a PC GUI
interface for interacting with Micros during development - and as an
operator interface for in-house or low volume where custom LCD displays
are totally out of the question. Could be expressed sub $20 versus
$4/5k.

http://www.embedded.com/story/OEG20030402S0038

David Lawrence
http://www.rhombus-tek.com/microgui.html



{Original Message removed}

2003\10\09@084621 by Rubens Monteiro Luciano

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What about Euphoria ? It´s a very easy language.
http://www.rapideuphoria.com/.

At 15:05 7/10/2003, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\10\09@101203 by hael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Blick [RemoveMEbobblickspamTakeThisOuTCOVAD.NET]
> Sent: 07 October 2003 19:06
> To: PICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [EE:] microGUI, are there others?
>
> Really, so many good things can be done quickly and easily in
> Perl, and it
> is way more popular than Python.

What I have found is that Perl is *excellent* for creating the most
obfuscated, difficult to read code that I have ever seen.  Most programms
look like someone has spilled a bucket of punctuation marks accross a
page...

Mike




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2003\10\09@103618 by Ian McLean

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Is this not more the fault of Regular Expression's rather than Perl as a
language itself for obfuscating code?  Perl is actually an elegant and
simple language.  Regular Expressions have always been ugly, in any
language, albiet powerful.

Just my opinion.
Ian.

{Original Message removed}

2003\10\09@141029 by Sergio Masci

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Bob Blick wrote:
> Wouter van Ooijen said:
> >> How about Perl and Tk? Works for me.
> >
> > Yuk (Perl) and fantastic (Tk). I would suggest Python/Tkinter, or
> > Tcl/Tk. Notice the common part in these three alternatives :)
>
> Huh?
>
> My post was in reply to someone suggesting BASIC, and you are dissing Perl
> instead?

As I don't remember seeing anyone else mention BASIC in this thread I can only
assume you are refering to XCSB. Perhaps I should point out that XCSB actually
runs native on a PIC. The compiler produces optimised machine code that executes
directly on the PIC. I have not yet come across a compiler that generates native
PIC machine code from Perl or Python source.

>
> I certainly hope it's only because you are taking time to carefully
> compose a message detailing all the reasons why BASIC in any shape is bad
> :-)

Come on, get real. There are hundreds of dialects of BASIC some with very
similar capabilties to C and C++, others with brain dead restrictions no better
than assembler. The fact that you can get some crap code written in BASIC is not
the fault of the language but the person writing the code. I have come across
hundreds of examples of crap code written in C, C++, assembler, PASCAL, Fortran
and SQL. But by far, the worst code I have ever had the misfortune to work on
was written in C. The language isn't the problem - people are the problem.

>
> Really, so many good things can be done quickly and easily in Perl, and it
> is way more popular than Python.

No it isn't more popular, I dislike each equally ;-)

>
> Python might have had a chance to catch on if it hadn't been for the use
> of indents rather than brackets. As it stands, it is doomed to always be a
> niche language like FORTH.
>

I remember when C was seen as a terse super nerdy language only just better than
APL and that period seemed to last for years :-)

All the best.

Regards
Sergio Masci

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2003\10\09@142527 by Bob Blick

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Sergio Masci said:

> As I don't remember seeing anyone else mention BASIC in this thread I
> can only assume you are refering to XCSB. Perhaps I should point out
> that XCSB actually runs native on a PIC. The compiler produces optimised
> machine code that executes directly on the PIC. I have not yet come
> across a compiler that generates native PIC machine code from Perl or
> Python source.

Ha ha ha very funny. No, the post in question suggested using a BASIC for
GUI programming in X under linux.

If you need to escalate this in to a language war, be my guest. I was
suggesting using Tk/Perl for quick programming in X because it works for
me. Use whatever tool you want, but please get the context right if you
want attribute something to me.

Cheers,

Bob

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2003\10\09@153135 by Sergio Masci

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Bob Blick wrote
> Sergio Masci said:
>
> > As I don't remember seeing anyone else mention BASIC in this thread I
> > can only assume you are refering to XCSB. Perhaps I should point out
> > that XCSB actually runs native on a PIC. The compiler produces optimised
> > machine code that executes directly on the PIC. I have not yet come
> > across a compiler that generates native PIC machine code from Perl or
> > Python source.
>
> Ha ha ha very funny. No, the post in question suggested using a BASIC for
> GUI programming in X under linux.

I seem to be missing this post from the thread (possibly finger trouble with the
delete key).

>
> If you need to escalate this in to a language war, be my guest. I was
> suggesting using Tk/Perl for quick programming in X because it works for
> me. Use whatever tool you want, but please get the context right if you
> want attribute something to me.

No, I think a war will not be necessary in this instance.

Regards
Sergio Masci

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2003\10\10@045758 by Peter L. Peres

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> What I have found is that Perl is *excellent* for creating the most
> obfuscated, difficult to read code that I have ever seen.  Most
> programms look like someone has spilled a bucket of punctuation marks
> accross a page...

Agree 110%. I try to write indented and offset Perl and the result looks
as bad as any example from others after 2 days ;-(

Peter

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2003\10\10@094720 by Scott Dattalo

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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> > What I have found is that Perl is *excellent* for creating the most
> > obfuscated, difficult to read code that I have ever seen.  Most
> > programms look like someone has spilled a bucket of punctuation marks
> > accross a page...
>
> Agree 110%. I try to write indented and offset Perl and the result looks
> as bad as any example from others after 2 days ;-(

Anybody want my copy of "Perl in 21 days"? I bought it 5 years ago and I'm
up to day 10.

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2003\10\10@103545 by Sergio Masci

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Wrote Scott Dattalo:
> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
>
> > > What I have found is that Perl is *excellent* for creating the most
> > > obfuscated, difficult to read code that I have ever seen.  Most
> > > programms look like someone has spilled a bucket of punctuation marks
> > > accross a page...
> >
> > Agree 110%. I try to write indented and offset Perl and the result looks
> > as bad as any example from others after 2 days ;-(
>
> Anybody want my copy of "Perl in 21 days"? I bought it 5 years ago and I'm
> up to day 10.
>

Ah, you obviously skimmed through "days 3 to 10" otherwise you would be on "day
4" by now ;-)

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2003\10\10@104130 by James Newton, webmaster

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source= http://www.piclist.com/piclist/2003/10/09/103618a.txt?

Perl can be very readable if you avoid regular expressions, and use the long versions of the predefined variables. In fact, I'm amazed at how close to English it is in many cases. Lines like:

trythis or die "can't do it";
print "made it to here" if debug;
file = openfile("index.htm") or openfile("index.html")

Here is a good page that shows most of the things that trip people up when starting with PERL:
techref.massmind.org/techref/language/perl/index.htm
includeing a link to a great reference on PERL style
http://www.perl.com/language/style/slide-index.html

My only complaint is also regular expressions:

Some people, when confronted with a problem, think “I know, I’ll use regular expressions.” Now they have two problems. --Jamie Zawinski, in comp.lang.emacs
http://techref.massmind.org/techref/language/regxs.htm

Regexp is like democracy: Horrible, but 10 times better than anything else.

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2003\10\10@121239 by Bob Blick
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James Newton, webmaster said:

> Perl can be very readable if you avoid regular expressions

Newer versions allow "extended whitespace" which I recommend.

There's also a small book I can recommend: Regular Expressions Pocket
Reference by Tony Stubblebine, published by O'Reilly. It has chapters on
Perl, C, PHP, Python, Java and .NET

Cheers,

Bob

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2003\10\10@194302 by Michael Davidson

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On 2003-10-11 at 00:40:46 [+1000], James Newton, webmaster wrote:
> source= http://www.piclist.com/piclist/2003/10/09/103618a.txt?
>
> Perl can be very readable if you avoid regular expressions

I don't get why Perl is automatically heaped with regular expressions - it
seems opponents of Perl seem to view regular expressions as Perl's Achilles'
heel.

Pretty much every modern language has regular expressions (VBScript 5+,
JScript, Javascript, Java, PHP, C, C++, etc), but for some reason no one says
"Java would be very readable if you didn't use RegExps".

> and use the long versions of the predefined variables.

I'll agree there;
print "$^T: $@\n" if ($@);

There's a 'use' you can include to disallow the short variable names, but I
can't think of it right now.

I also think the same should go for regular expressions. Rather than using
s/\d+//g to remove numbers, I'd use s/[0-9]//g
But I don't think regular expressions are necessarily hard to read. I'm sure
when you first come across a language you think "Zuh?", but once you know the
language it's perfectly natural.

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The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it.
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2003\10\11@072931 by Peter L. Peres

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> There's also a small book I can recommend: Regular Expressions Pocket
> Reference by Tony Stubblebine, published by O'Reilly. It has chapters on
> Perl, C, PHP, Python, Java and .NET

Why not go the whole way and get 'Mastering Regular Expressions' by
Friedel (also from O'Reilly).

Peter

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2003\10\11@083723 by john chung

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"Peter L. Peres" wrote:

> > There's also a small book I can recommend: Regular Expressions Pocket
> > Reference by Tony Stubblebine, published by O'Reilly. It has chapters on
> > Perl, C, PHP, Python, Java and .NET
>
> Why not go the whole way and get 'Mastering Regular Expressions' by
> Friedel (also from O'Reilly).
>

   I second that. I own the book and teaches alot. Worth buying and keeping
if you use regular expression in your life :)

John

>
> Peter
>
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2003\10\13@101115 by M. Adam Davis

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PHP/TK is coming along nicely too.

-Adam

Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\10\23@205818 by Eric Bohlman

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On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:12:51 -0400, Bob Blick <EraseMEbobblickspamspamspamBeGoneCOVAD.NET> wrote:

> James Newton, webmaster said:
>
>> Perl can be very readable if you avoid regular expressions
>
> Newer versions allow "extended whitespace" which I recommend.

Note that "newer versions" here means "anything released in the last 10
years."

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