Searching \ for '[EE:] NO Lead Solder after July 2006 *** Read Thi' in subject line. ()
Make payments with PayPal - it's fast, free and secure! Help us get a faster server
FAQ page: www.piclist.com/techref/index.htm?key=lead+solder+after
Search entire site for: 'NO Lead Solder after July 2006 *** Read Thi'.

Exact match. Not showing close matches.
PICList Thread
'[EE:] NO Lead Solder after July 2006 *** Read Thi'
2004\04\28@073704 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
If you use solder (and few here won't) then you're going to have to relearn
soldering before July 2006.
This applies from hobbiest through volume production.
I'm sure Google will have heaps on RoHS and WEEE, but here's a good 9and
scary) summary from Farnell.
If you think it's just a matter of cranking up the soldering iron
temperature you may be in for a shock.

May be time to stockpile some good 'ol soon to be illicit lead solder for
personal use:-)

Their related website
(http://international2.farnell.com/NZ/online_magazines/rohs-frame.jhtml) is
much harder to wade through than the following

And we still proceed with GE :-)


       RM
________________________________________________________


Regular update on the RoHS and WEEE Directives and how they will affect you
and your business. Our RoHS Directive website continues to be updated
regularly.

In this bulletin we look at what product areas are affected, as well as some
of the technical, environmental and commercial issues.

What are the RoHS and WEEE Directives?
In Europe, the RoHS (Restriction of Certain Hazardous Substances) Directive
bans the use of

    lead,         <-------------- **************
   cadmium,
   mercury,
   hexavalent chromium,
   polybrominated biphenyls and
   polybrominated diphenyl ethers

in electrical and electronic equipment products after July 2006.
The WEEE (Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment) Directive deals with
the recovery, sorting and treatment of waste products. Legislation is
expected to be introduced by August 2004, with compliance in Europe a year
later.

Who is affected?
Anyone that:

Manufactures and sells electrical and electronic equipment within the
specified categories.
Sells equipment produced by other suppliers under their own brand.
Imports (or exports) affected equipment into European Union (EU) member
states.
will be affected by both directives.

It is expected that from August 2005, such producers will be responsible for
financing the collection of waste electrical and electronic equipment from
central points, specialist treatment, and meeting targets for re-use,
recycling and recovery.

Which products are affected?

Large household appliances (eg. fridges, washing machines, electric ovens)
Small household appliances (eg. vacuum cleaners, toasters, irons, clocks,
scales)
IT and telecommunication equipment (eg. computers, photocopiers, telephones)
Consumer equipment (eg. televisions, video recorders, hi-fi equipment)
Lighting equipment (eg. fluorescent lamps, discharge lamps)
Electrical and electronic tools (eg. drills, sewing machines, lawnmowers)
Toys, leisure and sports equipment (eg. video games and consoles, train
sets)
Medical equipment systems (eg. radiotherapy equipment, pulmonary
ventilators) - WEEE only
Monitoring and control equipment (eg. thermostats, control panels) - WEEE
only
Automatic dispensers (eg. drinks machines)
Electric light bulbs - RoHS only
Luminaires in households - RoHS only
Is the shelf-life of "lead-free" components reduced because of lead-free
plating?
Unlikely, in fact it could well be improved, as tin has a slower oxidation
characteristic compared to tin / lead alloy.

What does the term "Green" mean?
In some products, such as semiconductors, further improvements are likely to
be made beyond the RoHS Directive. Other substances will be removed and
these "Green" environmental packages will not, for example, contain any
halogens, usually bromine(Br) or antimony based flame retardants.

What about compliant solders?
Tin lead solder pastes melt at 183°c while lead-free pastes require 220°c.
The temperature of the soldering iron may need to be increased, and the
temperature rating of both components and PCBs will need to withstand these
elevated levels. The alloys used in lead-free solder can vary depending on
the application, but it is generally safe to use the 99C alloy (99.7% tin,
0.3% copper) for lead-free hand soldering as this is compatible with most
lead-free alloy options. A trace of silver is added to some lead-free solder
pastes to assist with the wetting and joint formation during the rapid
reflow phase of typical surface mount technology (SMT) assembly processes.

What is the "popcorn" reaction?
Molded components can gather moisture when heat is rapidly applied. Above
100°c the moisture expands and becomes a gas. It tries to expand through the
molded compound and, when it can't get out, tends to break or pop the
molding compound like a "popcorn effect". The industry has introduced a
number of procedures for getting around this by baking and sealing the
component.

What if I need to maintain or repair my present equipment after July 2006?
The use of "banned" substances (lead, mercury, cadmium, hexavalent chromium,
polybrominated biphenyls and polybrominated diphenyl ethers) in spare parts
to repair equipment put on the market before July 2006 will be permitted,
but will not be allowed in new equipment. While still to be debated and
agreed by governments, non-compliant product could be used for repair
indefinitely.

What are the financial implications for electrical and electronics
producers?
Taking the UK as an example, the DTI (Department of Trade & Industry)
estimate a minimum annual cost of over £210M to comply with the WEEE
directive:

Separate collection of WEEE - £26M
Dismantling and treatment of WEEE - £98M
Meeting re-use, recycling and recovery targets - £52M
Marking products for separate collection - £18M
Providing information to treatment and recycling facilities - £7M
Reporting compliance information to Environment Agency - £11M
These are conservative estimates and the final annual cost in terms of WEEE
could well be as much as £455M.

RoHS compliance costs in the UK are estimated at over £170M per annum for
R&D. In addition, more than £100M per annum in increased capital and
operating costs of using alternative substances after July 2006.

Will prices increase?
The European Commission estimates an average cost increase of between 1% and
2% for most WEEE products and 3% to 4% for a few large or more complex
products. However, some suppliers have no plans to increase prices in the
short term, and it is likely to vary from product area to product area.

How do I find out more?
You can find out more by visiting our area dedicated to the RoHS and WEEE
legislation at our website.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\04\28@074947 by David Bearrow

picon face
That won't effect us Americans. Its a European Union deal.

At 06:36 AM 4/28/04, you wrote:
>If you use solder (and few here won't) then you're going to have to relearn
>soldering before July 2006.
>This applies from hobbiest through volume production.
>I'm sure Google will have heaps on RoHS and WEEE, but here's a good 9and
>scary) summary from Farnell.
>If you think it's just a matter of cranking up the soldering iron
>temperature you may be in for a shock.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\04\28@075400 by cdb

flavicon
face
There was an article about this and some experiments with current lead
free solder in its various guises (with Rosin, without and with Rosin
substitute) in this months EPE magazine from the UK.

The conclusion was, apart from a hotter iron, the lead free with rosin
is the way to go at the moment. The rosin substitute had a nasty
problem in turning the joints green as the acid leeched out.

They also noted that repairing PCBs that have used lead solder or
components tinned with lead or tinned PCB's caused contamination
problems with lead free solder and that to get the solder to wet
properly the test joints had to be soldered, wicked, and soldered
again before an adequate joint could be made.

They also noted that as there is no lead free bit cleaner as yet, the
iron bit was always going to have some form of contamination on it.

Colin

--
cdb, spam_OUTbodgy1TakeThisOuTspamoptusnet.com.au on Wednesday,28 April,2004

I have always been a few Dendrites short of an Axon and believe me it
shows.

Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright
until they speak!

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\04\28@075401 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 23:36:24 +1200, you wrote:

>If you use solder (and few here won't) then you're going to have to relearn
>soldering before July 2006.
>This applies from hobbiest through volume production.
>I'm sure Google will have heaps on RoHS and WEEE, but here's a good 9and
>scary) summary from Farnell.
>If you think it's just a matter of cranking up the soldering iron
>temperature you may be in for a shock.
>
>May be time to stockpile some good 'ol soon to be illicit lead solder for
>personal use:-)
>
>Their related website
>(http://international2.farnell.com/NZ/online_magazines/rohs-frame.jhtml) is
>much harder to wade through than the following
>
>And we still proceed with GE :-)
>

I think that like EMC, there is alot of scaremongering going on around this, fuelled by 'advice'
from companies with vested interests.

Firstly normal solder will not suddenly stop being available, as it will be required for repair, and
non-EU customers for the forseeable future. Reduced production will maybe increase cost, but it will
be available, so I doubt hobbyists have anything to worry about.

There is currently some speculation that a 'get-out' in the directive may allow 0.1% lead content in
a product or component, instead of any material - if this stays, then a lot of the potential
problems could disappear, e.g. use of old stock/obsolete components with lead tinned pins.
This seems eminently sensible to me... how much damage could a bit of lead on some components
actually do..?

In practice, a company with products using a few legacy lead-containing components is not going to
just stop manufacture if they can't get lead-free parts. The chance of any 'lead police' one
noticing a bit of lead on components is insignificant.
--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\04\28@080027 by cdb

flavicon
face
It will, because the company that I temporarily work for at this
moment, will order its American, Australian, and Chinese subsideries
to change over when the UK operation changes.

There might also be the problem of the EC not allowing non conforming
goods to wander on to its shores.

Or were you being tongue in cheek?

Colin

--
cdb, .....bodgy1KILLspamspam@spam@optusnet.com.au on Wednesday,28 April,2004

I have always been a few Dendrites short of an Axon and believe me it
shows.

Light travels faster than sound. That's why some people appear bright
until they speak!

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\04\28@081100 by Omer YALHI

flavicon
face
>David Bearrow said:
>That won't effect us Americans. Its a European Union deal.

Oh, and American's do not ship products to Europe I guess.

Omer

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\04\28@081102 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>That won't effect us Americans. Its a European Union deal.

If you believe this, then you playing Ostrich, with your head in the sand.

The reality for Americans is that many components will be produced using
lead free tinning on the component leads, and lead bearing solders do not
solder well to these. Unless America implodes inwards, and stops sourcing
components from Asia and elsewhere, then it will have an almighty affect on
you right when it is most inconvenient.

It might be a European Union deal, but it has already affected many
component suppliers in Asia.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\04\28@092333 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 01:11 PM 4/28/2004 +0100, you wrote:
> >That won't effect us Americans. Its a European Union deal.
>
>If you believe this, then you playing Ostrich, with your head in the sand.
>
>The reality for Americans is that many components will be produced using
>lead free tinning on the component leads, and lead bearing solders do not
>solder well to these. Unless America implodes inwards, and stops sourcing
>components from Asia and elsewhere, then it will have an almighty affect on
>you right when it is most inconvenient.
>
>It might be a European Union deal, but it has already affected many
>component suppliers in Asia.

It just affected one of my California customers. The Japanese relay I'd spec'd
for his project was just discontinued in favor of a new environmentally
friendly
model. The replacement is not available in the required temperature range,
so all the design, PCB etc. has to change (we're using a different model from
the same company that is not nearly as good in some ways).

We're talking about a part available through Digikey and Mouser- in fact
Digikey automatically e-mailed me that the part was now discontinued since I'd
ordered it in the past from them.

Only one of the below links is to a company with a European head office:

http://www.national.com/packaging/leadfree/
Note: "JEDEC moisture sensitivity level classification will most likely
be downgraded by as many as two levels" (side effect from higher temps)

www.renesas.com/avs/resource/japan/eng/pdf/others/rej01k0001_leadfree.pdf
www.fairchildsemi.com/products/lead_free/strategy.html
www.onsemi.com/site/pdf/pbfree_strategy.pdf
www.st.com/stonline/products/families/memories/eeprom/e3pres1.pdf
www.micron.com/about/environment/pbfree.html
www.semicon.panasonic.co.jp/lead-free/e-index.html
http://www.microchip.com/1010/tsupport/faq/leadfree/

This is a global thing, and suppliers who drag their feet will be left
out of markets.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
speffspamKILLspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\04\28@103057 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
> If you use solder (and few here won't) then you're going to have
> to relearn
> soldering before July 2006.
> This applies from hobbiest through volume production.
> I'm sure Google will have heaps on RoHS and WEEE, but here's a good 9and
> scary) summary from Farnell.
> If you think it's just a matter of cranking up the soldering iron
> temperature you may be in for a shock.
>
> May be time to stockpile some good 'ol soon to be illicit lead solder for
> personal use:-)

       Of course, if you are a hobbyist in a country that doesn't have the ban
then there isn't as much to worry about. While eventually the supply of lead
solder with cease it will be quite a while before that happens. TTYL

----------------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\04\28@111435 by John Ferrell

face picon face
A fresh black market item.
Freon smuggling into the US popular today.

Making solder is not rocket science either...

John Ferrell
http://DixieNC.US

{Original Message removed}

2004\04\28@114547 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>A fresh black market item.
>
>Making solder is not rocket science either...

maybe, but using lead bearing solder to attempt to solder lead free leads
produces problems with solder joint reliability.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\04\28@121041 by Matt Redmond

picon face
Reminds me of when they banned (well, restricted) R-12.

I was just out of high school and fairly poor.  Otherwise I would have bought the entire pallet of R-12 cans that Chief Auto had on sale for $1.50 per can.  They had a sign that said 'get it while you can...'.  I would have made 1500% on my money in a few years.




> >A fresh black market item.
> >
> >Making solder is not rocket science either...
>

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

2004\04\29@023814 by David Bearrow

picon face
I meant it won't effect the American hobbyist. I will still be able to buy
lead based solder. And Europeans will be able to buy lead based solder from
Americans.

At 07:10 AM 4/28/04, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email .....listservKILLspamspam.....mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2004\04\29@072512 by Peter Crowcroft

flavicon
face
All I can say is 'rubbish'. The reality of the situation will stop this idiocy.

In 1999 one of my PCB suppliers persuaded me to get some PCB lead-free. Big
mistake. Although I use about 10,000 PCBs a month in my business some sit
in stock for up to 18 months. The lead free ones after a year got a brown
tarnish and were even harder to solder than when fresh. After 18 months I
had to throw them out. Customers were complaining and rightly so.I wasted
over 1000USD in bad PCBs. Hot air levelled boards last over 10 years.

I think this is like the CE sticker I should have on my products for
Europe. The CE is not enforced in the slightest. Australia has similar
regulations I think but never enforced.

Also I can move to gold finish instead of hot-airlevelled boards if things
really get tough. The bottom line is businesses who have to stock PCBs for
9-12 months will face soldering problems with lead-free boards. Anyone who
has experience like to comment?




>If you use solder (and few here won't) then you're going to have to r=
>elearn
>soldering before July 2006.
>This applies from hobbiest through volume production.
>I'm sure Google will have heaps on RoHS and WEEE, but here's a good 9=
>and
>scary) summary from Farnell.
>If you think it's just a matter of cranking up the soldering iron
>temperature you may be in for a shock.
 >
>May be time to stockpile some good 'ol soon to be illicit lead solder=
> for personal use:-)


regards,
                DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd
      PO Box 88458, Sham Shui Po, Hong Kong
Factory: voice 852-2304 2250    Fax: 852-2729 1400
      M/F, 97 Fuk Wa Street, Sham Shui Po, HK
Home: voice 852-2720 0255,      Mobile: 852-6273 2049
Web:  http://www.kitsrus.com        Email: EraseMEpeterhkspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTkitsrus.com
               MSN:  peter5998spamspam_OUThotmail.com
---------------------------------------------------------------

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email @spam@listservKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2004\04\29@092605 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> All I can say is 'rubbish'. The reality of the situation will stop this
idiocy.

I hope you are correct.

As I alluded originally, it has some major ramifications.
But, just because something is a bad idea it doesn't mean thet bureaucracy
will not force changes. I have no idea how much the lead in solder
contributes to overall lead pollution.

But look at eg DDT. While it was unquestionably a bad idea as originally
used, it is THE known wonder cure for combatting malaria carrying
mosquitoes. The claim is that painting a minute quantity inside living
quarters in Africa can save vast number sof lives annually - yet it is still
totally banned. There are of course two sides to this anmd all other such
stories.

> Also I can move to gold finish instead of hot-airlevelled boards if things
> really get tough.

Which is of course going with the flow (or lack of it :-) ).


       Russell McMahon

--
http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
email KILLspamlistservKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

2004\04\30@072812 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
> Of course, if you are a hobbyist in a country that doesn't have the ban
> then there isn't as much to worry about. While eventually the supply of
> lead solder with cease it will be quite a while before that happens.
> TTYL

Hobbyists do not buy quantity and they are usually supplied by the
repair/rework supply circuits so they will never run out.

It would be more interesting to see which non-EU lemming governments will
follow this EU directive and implement their own lead ban without
justifiable reasons.

Peter

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu

2004\04\30@083604 by Samuel BOUQUET

flavicon
face
"without justifiable reason" !!

Environment question in western EU is going to be an important question,
and i think that north lands of Europe (Netherlands, Swedish....) are
very involved in environment protection.
As far as i can see, Wouter and Erik hasn't post any response on this
thread, and it will be interesting to have their point of view.
In France, after 1974 crisis, nuclear electrecity plants have replaced
petroleum ones, engines are better and better, tv ads on "swith off your
light" exists for 30 years, and a governmental agency, ADEME, give you
some money if you use solar energy (for hot water and electrecity).
KYOTO protocol has been signed for years, and the other side of the
ocean (US in fact) is not seen like a "model" in environment
protection....
I don't know if it's a media "desinformation", but that's what i feel
about that, although my bad english do not allow me to explain all my
feellings!

SamB

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu

2004\04\30@114052 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Friday, Apr 30, 2004, at 05:36 US/Pacific, Samuel BOUQUET wrote:
>
> "without justifiable reason" !!
>
Well, for instance, I've heard that the average computer system
contains a couple of grams of lead spread across ALL the solder, and
another couple of POUNDS of lead in the glass of the monitor (to shield
the users from Xrays and other nasty stuff.)  Lead isn't enviormenally
nice stuff, but one wonders significantly whether attacking the lead
used in solder is useful (especially compared to, say, car batteries
and other lead/acid batteries that may or may not be being recycled...)
 Not to mention whether the cost (in terms of decreased reliability,
increased manufacturing costs, etc) is worth the results...

BillW

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

2004\04\30@120422 by Brian Clewer

flavicon
face
BillW wrote:

> On Friday, Apr 30, 2004, at 05:36 US/Pacific, Samuel BOUQUET wrote:
> >
> > "without justifiable reason" !!
> >
> Well, for instance, I've heard that the average computer system
> contains a couple of grams of lead spread across ALL the solder, and
> another couple of POUNDS of lead in the glass of the monitor (to shield
> the users from Xrays and other nasty stuff.)  Lead isn't enviormenally
> nice stuff, but one wonders significantly whether attacking the lead
> used in solder is useful (especially compared to, say, car batteries
> and other lead/acid batteries that may or may not be being recycled...)
>   Not to mention whether the cost (in terms of decreased reliability,
> increased manufacturing costs, etc) is worth the results...
>

And on the side of my house they use lead flashing to keep out the rain
where the joins are.  So are they going to ban this as well?  IMO this is
far more damaging to the environment.  The rain off the roof gets washed
into the ground.  Probably ends up in a reservoir and back in our water
system too.  Why they should just bother with the electronic industry alone
I don't know.

Brian.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu

2004\04\30@121914 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 04:56 PM 4/30/2004 +0100, you wrote:


>And on the side of my house they use lead flashing to keep out the rain
>where the joins are.  So are they going to ban this as well?  IMO this is
>far more damaging to the environment.  The rain off the roof gets washed
>into the ground.  Probably ends up in a reservoir and back in our water
>system too.  Why they should just bother with the electronic industry alone
>I don't know.
>Brian.

The electronics ends up in landfills in ever-increasing amounts. Something
like 70% of the lead in landfills comes from electronics, and it is
difficult to remove the lead content, so it makes sense to deal with
electronics first.

Paradoxically, apparently leachate has been getting more toxic due to
reduced levels of absorbent disposable diapers in landfills.

Best regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
speffEraseMEspam.....interlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestspammitvma.mit.edu

2004\04\30@134311 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
> >And on the side of my house they use lead flashing to keep out the rain
> >where the joins are.  So are they going to ban this as well?  IMO this is
> >far more damaging to the environment.  The rain off the roof gets washed
> >into the ground.  Probably ends up in a reservoir and back in our water
> >system too.  Why they should just bother with the electronic
> industry alone
> >I don't know.
> >Brian.
>
> The electronics ends up in landfills in ever-increasing amounts. Something
> like 70% of the lead in landfills comes from electronics, and it is
> difficult to remove the lead content, so it makes sense to deal with
> electronics first.

       Are you CERTAIN that 70% figure does NOT include the lead in batteries and
monitors? Remember, this ban will do nothing to stop that.

       Personally this ban is completely silly to me, they aim at eliminating the
smallest users of the toxic substance and completely ignore that LARGEST
users of the toxic substance.

       But hey, it's government, I'm not sure why I'm surprised...

       Also, remember, that newer technologies use FAR less solder per connection
then older technologies (i.e. through hole packages vs. BGA). TTYL

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu


'[EE:] NO Lead Solder after July 2006 *** Read Thi'
2004\05\01@092009 by Peter L. Peres
picon face
>And on the side of my house they use lead flashing to keep out the rain
>where the joins are.  So are they going to ban this as well?  IMO this is
>far more damaging to the environment.  The rain off the roof gets washed
>into the ground.  Probably ends up in a reservoir and back in our water
>system too.  Why they should just bother with the electronic industry
>alone I don't know.

What don't you know ? There must be millions of houseowners, who are
voters, who would stuff any anti-lead-on-the-roof law down their elected
representative's throats much faster than you can read these lines. As
opposed to the high profile electronic industry, eminenly sue-able and
milk-able, especially since offshore in its majority. Plus, a really
(perceived?) step in the currently decreed 'right' direction is being
taken. That make a lot of political brownie points. It would be
interesting to express the decrease of lead in the immediate [*]
environment of civilized (?) man resulting from these measures. I don't
think that lead from electronic circuits represents the largest mass, or
the largest exposed surface of lead to be found in the immediate vicinity
of people.

Peter

[*] lead and all other 'bad' substances originate from this planet. Unless
there is a racket going on unnoticed by anyone, that smuggles lead,
cadmium, mercury and other 'nasty' substances in from outer space, it's
ALL NATURAL. Yes, people took some and roasted it with natural charcoal
fires and moved it around a little. Yes, some of that is not so healthy,
depending on where you put it, when, and for how long.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\05\01@100103 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
>         Are you CERTAIN that 70% figure does NOT include the lead in batteries and
> monitors? Remember, this ban will do nothing to stop that.
>
>         Personally this ban is completely silly to me, they aim at eliminating the
> smallest users of the toxic substance and completely ignore that LARGEST
> users of the toxic substance.

I don't know about those figures, and I'm not an expert in that area. But
the damage (or potential damage) is usually not only a function of
quantity.

For example, lead acid batteries are rather easy to recycle, and probably
most are already being recycled in many places that care about their
environment. The lead in the glass of monitors may not wash out easily,
even if it ends up on a land fill.

I don't know any of this for sure, but I know that those questions are a
lot more involved than they look on the surface, and judging whether
something like that ban makes sense or not needs to take into account many
aspects. Environmental engineering is no less involved than other
engineering disciplines, and probably much more so.

Gerhard

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\05\01@100933 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> [*] lead and all other 'bad' substances originate from this planet. Unless
> there is a racket going on unnoticed by anyone, that smuggles lead,
> cadmium, mercury and other 'nasty' substances in from outer space, it's
> ALL NATURAL. Yes, people took some and roasted it with natural charcoal
> fires and moved it around a little. Yes, some of that is not so healthy,
> depending on where you put it, when, and for how long.

Natural certainly. But still hazardous.
As I'm sure you are well aware, lead is a very nasty substance indeed once
it gets concentrated in unnatural amounts. And compounds can in some
instances be worse than the pure substance if they increase volatility or
solubility. poisoning from lead paint used to be a very real hazard and even
now, people sanding down old houses can (and sometimes do) expose themselves
to life destroying quantities of lead. Elimination of lead from petrol seems
like having been a sensible step (high temperatures and fine particle
outputs don't help at all). I understand that heavy users of firearms are at
risk of lead poisoning. Quite where PCBs fit into this I don't know.



       Russell McMahon

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

2004\05\02@095158 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
> [*] lead and all other 'bad' substances originate from this planet. Unless
> there is a racket going on unnoticed by anyone, that smuggles lead,
> cadmium, mercury and other 'nasty' substances in from outer space, it's
> ALL NATURAL.

I don't think the question here is whether it's "natural" :)

Nature in itself would continue to be perfectly "natural" even if we or
something else manages to blow up this planet, with everything on it.

And I'm sure you know of a large amount of perfectly "natural" substances
you don't want to find anywhere near you -- or your stomach or your
bloodstream :)

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
(like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

2004\05\03@092452 by Eisermann, Phil [Ridg/CO]

flavicon
face
pic microcontroller discussion list wrote:
>>
>> The electronics ends up in landfills in ever-increasing amounts.
>> Something like 70% of the lead in landfills comes from electronics,
>> and it is difficult to remove the lead content, so it makes sense to
>> deal with electronics first.
>
>         Are you CERTAIN that 70% figure does NOT include the lead in
> batteries and monitors? Remember, this ban will do nothing to stop
> that.
>

That 70% figure is most certainly incorrect for electronic assemblies.
Using lead in the mfg. of CRT's is exempt. Monitors will be affected by the
WEEE directive, which is the collection portion. As for batteries, I thought
there is an amendment to include Pb in batteries since alternate
technologies
exist?

FWIW, the lead content in PCB assemblies is an insignificant percentage of
total
lead in landfills (in the US at least). IIRC, the figure was around 0.2%.

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different
ways.  See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

More... (looser matching)
- Last day of these posts
- In 2004 , 2005 only
- Today
- New search...