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'[EE:] Lumileds Luxeon very high brightness LED mod'
2004\07\08@092807 by Russell McMahon

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Luxeon LED illuminator site.
Very well done.
Copious technical information both on module characteristics and design,
lifetime, operation ...

       http://www.lumileds.com/

For those who haven't met them, the Luxeon units offer outputs comparable
with typical incandescent bulbs but with many advantages (high lifetime,
good colour matching, high efficiency, bright well controlled beam pattern,
...). Applications include standard lighting (torches, car lights, ...) and
specialist applications such as dental resin curing.

Available in white plus  arrange of colours and a number of output patterns
and power levels.

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2004\07\08@100053 by Josh Koffman

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We use them in a few of our products. Pretty good stuff, and at the
moment, they are the market leaders. There are a few companies trying
to play catch-up who should be releasing similar LEDs soon. If you've
got a free day and $250 to spend, attend one of the Lumileds seminars.
They provide very good information about heat management, driving
techniques, etc. Plus you get a golf shirt :)

Josh
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On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 01:14:36 +1200, Russell McMahon
<.....apptechKILLspamspam@spam@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
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2004\07\08@100921 by Bob Axtell

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A word of caution:

I ran into a peculiar situation with these super high brightness
devices: they radiate an inordinate amount of RF when switched.
My approach was to PWM the LEDs to control brightness, but it failed.

Every LED radiates a tiny pulse when switching from non-emission to the
emission states. But these big ones have such a huge wavefront that in a
radio application once (2 years ago) I was unable to get the energy
squashed enough for the radio to work. Simply had to abandon the design.
The radiation was detectable by simple sniffer well into the 900Mhz
band, highest freq my sniffer would capture.

--Bob

Russell McMahon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2004\07\08@103655 by Mike Harrison

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On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 07:07:55 -0700, you wrote:

>A word of caution:
>
>I ran into a peculiar situation with these super high brightness
>devices: they radiate an inordinate amount of RF when switched.
>My approach was to PWM the LEDs to control brightness, but it failed.
>
>Every LED radiates a tiny pulse when switching from non-emission to the
>emission states. But these big ones have such a huge wavefront that in a
>radio application once (2 years ago) I was unable to get the energy
>squashed enough for the radio to work. Simply had to abandon the design.
>The radiation was detectable by simple sniffer well into the 900Mhz
>band, highest freq my sniffer would capture.

Is this due to the current spike or something else ? Why wouldn't a series inductor to control the
risetime fix this?

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2004\07\08@115849 by Harold Hallikainen

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I designed one of those special applications - a dental curing light. The
lumiled LEDs are REALLY BRIGHT!

Harold


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2004\07\08@150646 by Bob Axtell

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Mike Harrison wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Jul 2004 07:07:55 -0700, you wrote:
>
>
>>A word of caution:
>>
>>I ran into a peculiar situation with these super high brightness
>>devices: they radiate an inordinate amount of RF when switched.
>>My approach was to PWM the LEDs to control brightness, but it failed.
>>
>>Every LED radiates a tiny pulse when switching from non-emission to the
>>emission states. But these big ones have such a huge wavefront that in a
>>radio application once (2 years ago) I was unable to get the energy
>>squashed enough for the radio to work. Simply had to abandon the design.
>>The radiation was detectable by simple sniffer well into the 900Mhz
>>band, highest freq my sniffer would capture.
>
>
> Is this due to the current spike or something else ? Why wouldn't a series inductor to control the
> risetime fix this?

I tried RF chokes of many values in series with the LED leads, tried
improving the ground plane, caps, caps in combination with RF chokes, etc.

Yes, it worked pretty well with a mu-metal shield surrounding the LED on
every side except where the light came out. But it was too costly to
manufacture.

These noisy ones were made by HP.

--Bob

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2004\07\09@133706 by M. Adam Davis

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Did you measure the resonant frequency of these things?  Sounds like
they are little antennas...

-Adam

Bob Axtell wrote:

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2004\07\09@192208 by Russell McMahon

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> >>> I ran into a peculiar situation with these super high brightness
> >>> devices: they radiate an inordinate amount of RF when switched.
> >>> My approach was to PWM the LEDs to control brightness, but it failed.

I would have thought you could PWM and then smooth so that the LED's only
saw the resultant DC. The response curve would be very sensitive to
variation as, rather than being well on and fully off as they would be with
PWM, they would be being held partially on constantly. This approach MUST
eliminate the PWM effects on the LEDs as they only see DC.


       Russell McMahon

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2004\07\09@195608 by Jinx

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> I would have thought you could PWM and then smooth so that the
> LED's only saw the resultant DC. The response curve would be
> very sensitive to variation as, rather than being well on and fully
> off as they would be with PWM

From Silicon Chip 12/03, Luxeon recommends PWM for colour
reasons. Their circuit uses a 555 @ 1100Hz switching the Adj
of an LM317

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2004\07\10@230952 by Steve Kosmerchock

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I helped design something that blows these away ;)
Check out the following:

http://www.enluxled.com

I also designed a display booth for a show in vegas
for these guys. They won 2 awards for their product,
GE, Philips, Lumiled, Luxeon ... etc. all wanted info
on this product. UL has been completed and they are
ramping up for production. The Department of Energy
also talked to us about some serious government
contracts! 22W power consumption that gives you the
same output as a 65W incandesent, awesome! Of course
these are only for use in standard US light bulb
sockets for now.

Steve



--- Russell McMahon <EraseMEapptechspamPARADISE.NET.NZ> wrote:
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2004\07\10@232033 by Randy Abernathy

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In a message dated 7/10/2004 11:11:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
RemoveMEsteve_piclistspam_OUTspamKILLspamYAHOO.COM writes:

I helped  design something that blows these away ;)
Check out the  following:

http://www.enluxled.com



Do you know if they are planning to make a replacement for a regular
incandescent light bulb that would be used in a ceiling light fixture or a table
lamp?   The savings would be enormous if you could use these in all  existing
incandescent applications in a house or office.

I took a look at the web site and it seemed that, at this time, they are
only doing the flood lights.  I am assuming that the nature of LED units  being
pretty much directional is the reason for starting with a flood light
application.

Randy  Abernathy
4626 Old Stilesboro Road NW
Acworth, GA 30101-4066
Phone /  Fax: 770-974-5295
Mobile: 678-772-4113
E-mail:  RemoveMEcnc002TakeThisOuTspamspamaol.com

I furnish technical support, repair, and other  related services for your
industrial woodworking machinery. My background as  Senior Service Engineer for
the SCMI Group for nearly fifteen years with factory  training, combines with
my extensive background in electronics, mechanics,  pneumatics, electrical and
CNC machinery to offer you needed support for your  machinery.

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2004\07\10@233937 by David Schmidt

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Great life, but compact fluorescents put out way more lumens per watt.
How does the price compare to compact fluorescents?
Dave

> I helped design something that blows these away ;)
> Check out the following:
>
> http://www.enluxled.com
>

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2004\07\10@235013 by Josh Koffman

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Steve, do you know if they are manufacturing their own LEDs for this?

Josh
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On Sat, 10 Jul 2004 20:10:56 -0700, Steve Kosmerchock
<EraseMEsteve_piclistspamspamspamBeGoneyahoo.com> wrote:
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2004\07\11@001338 by Randy Abernathy

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In a message dated 7/10/2004 11:41:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
RemoveMEtechsavyKILLspamspamDSCHMIDT.COM writes:

Great  life, but compact fluorescents put out way more lumens per watt.
How does  the price compare to compact fluorescents?
Dave



Dave:

You are correct, in fact they put out over twice the lumens (1100)  at close
to the same wattage (23).  These figures are from the GE  compact flourescent
data page.  The closest thing to the same specs to the  LED is a 15 watt flood
that puts out 550 lumens, obviously more efficient as  well.  Also, they are
less than 1/4 the price at $18.00 per  bulb. The 20 watt bulb at 1100 lumens
is about half the price at $41.00 per  bulb. The only thing I see that is an
advantage is the estimated life of  the LED lamps.  The flourescent lamps have
an estimated life of between  6,000 hours and 15,000 hours, the LED lamps an
estimated life of 50,000  hours.  You could purchase 4 of the flourscent bulbs
for less than one of  the LED lamps and that would be approximately 60,000
hours of use and a bigger  savings in electricity cost than the LED.

I know that in the future they will probably get the cost of the LED lamps
down and their efficiency up but, for now I think the flourescents are the best
value.

Just my 2 cents worth.


Randy  Abernathy
4626 Old Stilesboro Road NW
Acworth, GA 30101-4066
Phone /  Fax: 770-974-5295
Cell: 678-772-4113
E-mail: Cnc002STOPspamspamspam_OUTaol.com

I  furnish technical support, repair, and other related services for your
industrial woodworking machinery. My background as Senior Service Engineer for
the SCMI Group for nearly fifteen years with factory training, combines with
my  extensive background in electronics, mechanics, pneumatics, electrical and
CNC  machinery to offer you needed support for your  machinery.

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2004\07\11@222334 by Steve Kosmerchock

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The LEDs are bonded straight to the PCB by the LED
manufacturer in Taiwan. I don't know all of the light
comparison figures, but the guy from the DOE was
"extremely" interested. He mentioned the government
would like to push LED lighting. The fact that this
light fits in a standard light bulb base makes it even
better. I can't get into too many details (NDA), but I
can say these things are awesome.

Steve

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2004\07\12@045420 by hilip Stortz

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one huge, huge advantage over fluorescent lights is that they actually
produce white light with a reasonable color temperature.  fluorescents
that are even close in terms of color quality are much less efficient.
truly white light makes a huge difference both psychologically and in
being able to see colors correctly, whether trying to determine the
color or read color codes at work or trying to eat meat that is supposed
to be a color other than pale gray.

there's also the elimination of mercury, some areas are now handling
used fluorescent lamps as hazardous material and charging as much as $1
per tube for disposal- this is a big deal in the sign industry.

as far as cost, you also have to factor in the cost of the ballast for
fluorescents (admittedly not too bad).

fluorescents also have a tendency to produce nasty RFI (even with newer
ballast) and also tend to have a poor power factor and produce noise on
the power lines as well which can be a problem if one is making
sensitive measurements or using sensitive equipment.

of course there's also the rather nasty behavior of fluorescents getting
dimmer over time, often leading to them being used long after they
should have been replaced and producing poor lighting while using the
same amount of energy.  i've seen a lot of this in stores where they are
either too cheap or just don't realize the problem or it's affect on
shoppers (it's a common practice to replace fluorescents every year to
maintain reasonable output).

the led lights also are not as fragile and avoid the cut hazard.

i really love the led light idea, i hope the price drops soon (as it no
doubt will as quantity increases like all electronics). it wouldn't
surprise me if they were $20 or less in the near future, at that point
i'll be buying a lot of them!

Randy Abernathy wrote:
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2004\07\13@151348 by Andrew Warren

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Randy Abernathy <@spam@PICLIST@spam@spamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> I know that in the future they will probably get the cost of the
> LED lamps down and their efficiency up but, for now I think the
> flourescents are the best value.

   Unless you want red, green, or amber light...

   -Andy

=== Andrew Warren -- spamBeGoneaiwspamKILLspamcypress.com
=== Principal Design Engineer
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation
===
=== Opinions expressed above do not
=== necessarily represent those of
=== Cypress Semiconductor Corporation

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2004\07\14@213419 by hilip Stortz

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or something that actually is white light, rather than a poor "cold" or
"warm" but not hot approximation to true white light.  i like a
continuous spectrum, i like halogen, hopefully "white" leds will have
more phosphors and more sum and difference colors and be closer to
continuous eventually.  until then, they are only useful for outdoor
safety lighting and deliberately monochromatic lighting.  no one should
work or live under discontinuous, strobing light, i.e. flourescents.
they stink, always have and always will, imho.

Andrew Warren wrote:
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