On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 20:25:48 -0500, Ken Pergola wrote:
>Either a FTDI copycat (take a look at the programmer's manual) or they
>licensed FTDI's core?
>
>Looks convenient and interesting if the price is right...
>
>http://www.instantusb.com
>
>
I hate having to register to get price data but I did anyway.
under 200 ==> US$11.80
200-999 ==> US$10.65
1000-4999 ==> US$9.50
> >Looks convenient and interesting if the price is right...
> >
> >http://www.instantusb.com
> >
> >
>
> I hate having to register to get price data but I did anyway.
>
> under 200 ==> US$11.80
> 200-999 ==> US$10.65
> 1000-4999 ==> US$9.50
Does not look very interesting to me compared to a bare FT232BM.
>>>Looks convenient and interesting if the price is right...
>>>
>>>http://www.instantusb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I hate having to register to get price data but I did anyway.
>>
>>under 200 ==> US$11.80
>>200-999 ==> US$10.65
>>1000-4999 ==> US$9.50
>>
>>
>
>Does not look very interesting to me compared to a bare FT232BM.
>
>
But it doees to me :-)
If the interface on th PC side is as easy as FT232BM,
the LINX device has one large advantage:
It's *much* smaller then FT232BM !
- no Xtal required
- no eeprom required
- no external resistors required
And if you add that all up, the price is about equal (or maybe even cheaper).
Is there anyone else that have problems to read Linx pdf files. My acrobat
reader complains about missing fonts... Solution?
/Ake
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Fran: pic microcontroller discussion list
[PICLISTspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU]For Stef Mientki
Skickat: den 25 februari 2004 13:42
Till: @spam@PICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Amne: Re: [EE:] Just add a USB jack and you're good to go
>>>Looks convenient and interesting if the price is right...
>>>
>>>http://www.instantusb.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I hate having to register to get price data but I did anyway.
>>
>>under 200 ==> US$11.80
>>200-999 ==> US$10.65
>>1000-4999 ==> US$9.50
>>
>>
>
>Does not look very interesting to me compared to a bare FT232BM.
>
>
But it doees to me :-)
If the interface on th PC side is as easy as FT232BM,
the LINX device has one large advantage:
It's *much* smaller then FT232BM !
- no Xtal required
- no eeprom required
- no external resistors required
And if you add that all up, the price is about equal (or maybe even
cheaper).
>/Ake
>
>-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
>Fran: pic microcontroller discussion list
>[spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU]For Stef Mientki
>Skickat: den 25 februari 2004 13:42
>Till: TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Amne: Re: [EE:] Just add a USB jack and you're good to go
>
>
>Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>
>
>
>>>>Looks convenient and interesting if the price is right...
>>>>
>>>>http://www.instantusb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I hate having to register to get price data but I did anyway.
>>>
>>>under 200 ==> US$11.80
>>>200-999 ==> US$10.65
>>>1000-4999 ==> US$9.50
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Does not look very interesting to me compared to a bare FT232BM.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>But it doees to me :-)
>If the interface on th PC side is as easy as FT232BM,
>the LINX device has one large advantage:
>It's *much* smaller then FT232BM !
>- no Xtal required
>- no eeprom required
>- no external resistors required
>And if you add that all up, the price is about equal (or maybe even
>cheaper).
>
>Stef Mientki
>
>--
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>
>
>/Ake
>
>-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
>Fran: pic microcontroller discussion list
>[RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]For Stef Mientki
>Skickat: den 25 februari 2004 13:42
>Till: EraseMEPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Amne: Re: [EE:] Just add a USB jack and you're good to go
>
>
>Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>
>
>
>>>>Looks convenient and interesting if the price is right...
>>>>
>>>>http://www.instantusb.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I hate having to register to get price data but I did anyway.
>>>
>>>under 200 ==> US$11.80
>>>200-999 ==> US$10.65
>>>1000-4999 ==> US$9.50
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Does not look very interesting to me compared to a bare FT232BM.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>But it doees to me :-)
>If the interface on th PC side is as easy as FT232BM,
>the LINX device has one large advantage:
>It's *much* smaller then FT232BM !
>- no Xtal required
>- no eeprom required
>- no external resistors required
>And if you add that all up, the price is about equal (or maybe even
>cheaper).
>
>Stef Mientki
>
>--
>http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
>RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspammitvma.mit.edu
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Either a FTDI copycat (take a look at the programmer's manual) or they
>licensed FTDI's core?
>
>Looks convenient and interesting if the price is right...
>
><http://www.instantusb.com>http://www.instantusb.com
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Ken Pergola
Hi Ken,
Now read the fine print: ;-(
"Supports low speed USB"
No mention of "Full Speed" or "High speed" modes.
In other words, this is not anything like a FTDI chip
("Full speed" device) and it effective Baud rate will be around
9600 Baud as this is the "real" bandwidth of the low-speed
USB side (8 bytes per 1mS). Yes, low-speed devices are part
of both USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 specifications. USB 2.0
can be that slow!
Not much use having a 3Mbps UART when the USB side is
8 bytes per 1mS. ;-(
To me it very much appears that readers are being misled
without actually being lied to. The devil is in the detail.
I would not be surprised if this was just a bastardized USB micro.
1k EEPROM, 16-pins, someone may recognize it.
Although some aspects of it do look like a FTDI chip I have not
seen the FTDI chip specified for low-speed mode and I
would say that the operation of this chip (its firmware) has been
modeled on a FTDI chip. The same may be true of the
API.
> Now read the fine print: ;-(
>
> "Supports low speed USB"
>
> No mention of "Full Speed" or "High speed" modes.
>
> ...To me it very much appears that readers are being misled
> without actually being lied to. The devil is in the detail.
> In other words, this is not anything like a FTDI chip
> ("Full speed" device) and it effective Baud rate will be around
> 9600 Baud as this is the "real" bandwidth of the low-speed
> USB side (8 bytes per 1mS). Yes, low-speed devices are part
> of both USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 specifications. USB 2.0
> can be that slow!
Hi Jim,
Interesting comments, but my gut feeling on this tells me that the reference
on the data sheet to "Supports low speed USB" was not intended -- I believe
it was an oversight/mistake on their part and was not intended to be
interpreted the way it sounds.
My rhetorical questions are these:
1) Why would a company design something like this (after researching the
market) that would have less performance than the FT232BM?
To me, it just does not makes sense and it would be marketing suicide in
my opinion.
2) Why would a company go through so much trouble to make their API a clone
of FTDI's (and risk a lawsuit) if the real McCoy was not inside?
I still believe it's a re-package job -- most likely a FTDI FT232BM die is
in that package, along with the necessary ancillary components.
>In other words, this is not anything like a FTDI chip
>("Full speed" device) and it effective Baud rate will be around
>9600 Baud as this is the "real" bandwidth of the low-speed
>USB side (8 bytes per 1mS). Yes, low-speed devices are part
>of both USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 specifications. USB 2.0
>can be that slow!
Hmmm.. low speed USB is 1.5Mb/s (vs. 12Mb/s and 480Mb/s). That's
a *bit* faster than 9600 baud, at least at 1 bit/baud, isn't it?
> Hmmm.. low speed USB is 1.5Mb/s (vs. 12Mb/s and 480Mb/s). That's a
> *bit* faster than 9600 baud, at least at 1 bit/baud, isn't it?
If you don't do anything "weird" like sending data over the
Control endpoint, low-speed USB provides eight bytes every ten
milliseconds, which is LESS than 9600 baud.
>
>
>Jim Robertson wrote:
>
> > Now read the fine print: ;-(
> >
> > "Supports low speed USB"
> >
> > No mention of "Full Speed" or "High speed" modes.
> >
> > ...To me it very much appears that readers are being misled
> > without actually being lied to. The devil is in the detail.
>
> > In other words, this is not anything like a FTDI chip
> > ("Full speed" device) and it effective Baud rate will be around
> > 9600 Baud as this is the "real" bandwidth of the low-speed
> > USB side (8 bytes per 1mS). Yes, low-speed devices are part
> > of both USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 specifications. USB 2.0
> > can be that slow!
>
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>Interesting comments, but my gut feeling on this tells me that the reference
>on the data sheet to "Supports low speed USB" was not intended -- I believe
>it was an oversight/mistake on their part and was not intended to be
>interpreted the way it sounds.
>
>
>Best regards,
>
>Ken Pergola
Ken,
Hopefully you are right. Having looked at it in more detail I would say you
probably are.
Does very much look like a FTDI module with EEPROM, oscillator and other
discrete
bits build in and the windows drivers are stock standard FTDI offerings.
Hell of a blunder to label it as a "low-speed" USB device. (This is also on
the web site.)
Someone like myself may use these by the 1000's in a future programmer. When
I saw "low-speed" I stopped all consideration of it because of the
bandwidth limitation.
If it is FTDI based then I will consider it.
Now if they only would offer it at a realistic OEM price. :-(
Regards,
Jim
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> Hopefully you are right. Having looked at it in more detail I
> would say you probably are.
> Does very much look like a FTDI module with EEPROM, oscillator and other
> discrete bits build in and the windows drivers are stock standard FTDI
offerings.
>
> Certainly this is a "module" something like this one
> http://www.pic-tools.com/usb_mod_ums2.htm
> It is not a Micro.
>
> Hell of a blunder to label it as a "low-speed" USB device. (This
> is also on the web site.)
Hi Jim,
Well, it's only my gut feeling for whatever that's worth. :)
I'm hoping I'm right too, not for my ego (or lack thereof :) ), but because
I don't think the product will take off if it truly is a low speed USB
product. Maybe I'll send an e-mail to them sometime to get some more info.
However, Jim, you raised some excellent points. A lot of times consumers
really have to pay attention to things. USB with all its speed modes has
created confusion for some people.
There's nothing stopping anyone from doing something similar to what Linx is
doing.
I agree, if they can bring that cost down, it would look really attractive.
Maybe someone like Peter Crowcroft at kitsrus could make something like
this.
Take care Jim.
Best regards,
Ken Pergola
P.S. How did you do at the skydiving championships? Hope you did well.
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> Jim Robertson wrote:
>
> > Hopefully you are right. Having looked at it in more detail I
> > would say you probably are.
> > Does very much look like a FTDI module with EEPROM, oscillator and other
> > discrete bits build in and the windows drivers are stock standard FTDI
>offerings.
>
>Hi Jim,
>
>Well, it's only my gut feeling for whatever that's worth. :)
>I'm hoping I'm right too, not for my ego (or lack thereof :) ), but because
>I don't think the product will take off if it truly is a low speed USB
>product. Maybe I'll send an e-mail to them sometime to get some more info.
Hi Ken,
I have already emailed Linx and this is the reply I received in full.
Quote "
Hello Jim,
The module supports seamless operation from data rates as low as 300bps
to a full 3Mbps. In RF application many customers are actually more
focused low rate capabilities thus the call out as a feature. You may
wish to download the support materials at http://www.instantusb.com for a
further understanding of the part.
So, to my mind the reply may infer that it is a full speed USB device
however it is hardly explicit. It certainly does not confirm that the
module is based on the FTDI chip but it just has to be. Why Linx
need to hide this I don't know.
As for the RTFM bit, this is a little insulting as it was clear that I was
questioning doubtful information in The "F Manual" to begin with!
>Take care Jim.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Ken Pergola
>
>
>
>P.S. How did you do at the skydiving championships? Hope you did well.
Well, my team could make it so I went for the social aspect (Beer :-).
Had a real good time until a friend made a fatal mistake...
We do not sample these modules so you will need to purchase them. The
evaluation kit will be $129, the modules will be $11.80 each less than
200pcs and they should start shipping in about 3 weeks. It has a max data
rate of 3Mbps, so faster than low speed but not up to full speed.
I notice that Digikey now has them listed in the online catalog... though
they are not available yet. Projected availability was late February. You
only get the 11.80 price if you order 100 of them. I don't seem to be able
to find the place on the Linx site to download the drivers yet either.
One very interesting aspect of this is that while they are surface mount,
the pin spacing is .1" ... and there is a section in their data sheet on
how to solder them by hand. It looks quite a bit easier than than a
typical 16 pin surface mount package would be.
I have one product that currently uses the DLP modules for optional USB. I
may switch to this because it seems like an interesting compromise between
the surface mount fTDI chip and the DLP module.
>This was sent to me in a request for samples...
>
>Hello,
>
>We do not sample these modules so you will need to purchase them. The
>evaluation kit will be $129, the modules will be $11.80 each less than
>200pcs and they should start shipping in about 3 weeks. It has a max data
>rate of 3Mbps, so faster than low speed but not up to full speed.
>
>Support
>Linx Technologies
>
>
>Mauricio D. Jancic
>Janso Desarrollos - Microchip Consultant
>http://www.janso.com.ar
>RemoveMEinfoEraseMEspam_OUTjanso.com.ar
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