Post by thread:[EE:] Good schematic & PCB layout software?

Hi all, I need to get schematic & PCB layout software that supports a large-sized PCB ... ~14" x ~6" .... and possibly larger. I really like Eagle, am very familiar with it, and there's trememdous support for it (in the way of available libraries). But the Eagle version that supports this board size, the Professional version, is $1200.... ouch! But time is easier to find than money nowadays, so I'm willing to re-create all my own libraries if necessary. However, it must have an autorouter, and be able to generate 274X Gerber files. I'd really like it to have the ability to rotate parts to arbitrary angles, like Eagle 4.11. Linux or Windoze is fine with me. This current app will have ~1,800 pins, so I prefer not to have pin limits. Any ideas on which software might meet my needs? I have $200 budgeted for this, but would prefer to keep it under $200. Do-able? Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:58:17 -0500, PicDude wrote: >Hi all, > >I need to get schematic & PCB layout software that supports a large-sized PCB >... ~14" x ~6" .... and possibly larger. I really like Eagle, am very >familiar with it, and there's trememdous support for it (in the way of >available libraries). But the Eagle version that supports this board size, >the Professional version, is $1200.... ouch! > <snip> >Any ideas on which software might meet my needs? I have $200 budgeted for >this, but would prefer to keep it under $200. Do-able? > >Cheers, >-Neil. For $200, I don't really think you'll be able to find anything to meet all of those requirements. The only one that I know of that even comes close is AutoTRAX but it's still not completely stable yet. For $95, you can get unlimited pins and large board sizes. The autorouter isn't complete (it's pretty much unusable) nor will it do arbitrary footprint rotation. There's pretty good support at the Yahoo group. http://www.autotraxeda.com http://groups.yahoo.com/group/autotrax/ Regards, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

{Quote hidden}>From: PicDude <spam_OUTpicdude2TakeThisOuTNARWANI.ORG> >Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list <.....PICLISTKILLspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> >To: PICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: [EE:] Good schematic & PCB layout software? >Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:58:17 -0500 > >Hi all, > >I need to get schematic & PCB layout software that supports a large-sized >PCB >... ~14" x ~6" .... and possibly larger. I really like Eagle, am very >familiar with it, and there's trememdous support for it (in the way of >available libraries). But the Eagle version that supports this board size, >the Professional version, is $1200.... ouch! > >But time is easier to find than money nowadays, so I'm willing to re-create >all my own libraries if necessary. > >However, it must have an autorouter, and be able to generate 274X Gerber >files. I'd really like it to have the ability to rotate parts to arbitrary >angles, like Eagle 4.11. Linux or Windoze is fine with me. This current >app >will have ~1,800 pins, so I prefer not to have pin limits. > hey man im now very experienced in eagle although i have it, I use orcad capture and layout. its very expensive but very proffesional and effective. i learned from my experience from orcad that when doing a schematic u might want to devide it into heirarchical parts or pages, which brings us to your problem, if u dont find a software that good at that low price try deviding your application into several smaller boards, and connect them with flat date cables or as you find suitable, as many applications can be devided into sub groups. take the example of an amplifier : preamp, two or three stage voltage amplifirer, then push pull current amplifiere. u see i devided my application into three parts. try doing the same and reply to this telling me what u think. regards karim hamandi _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

google for pclogic, cheap,auto router,2 layer only,large size. also look at rimu pcb also cheap but no auto router. regards victor {Quote hidden}> > From: PicDude <.....picdude2KILLspam.....NARWANI.ORG> > Date: 2004/04/12 Mon AM 01:58:17 EDT > To: EraseMEPICLISTspam_OUTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: [EE:] Good schematic & PCB layout software? > > Hi all, > > I need to get schematic & PCB layout software that supports a large-sized PCB > ... ~14" x ~6" .... and possibly larger. I really like Eagle, am very > familiar with it, and there's trememdous support for it (in the way of > available libraries). But the Eagle version that supports this board size, > the Professional version, is $1200.... ouch! > > But time is easier to find than money nowadays, so I'm willing to re-create > all my own libraries if necessary. > > However, it must have an autorouter, and be able to generate 274X Gerber > files. I'd really like it to have the ability to rotate parts to arbitrary > angles, like Eagle 4.11. Linux or Windoze is fine with me. This current app > will have ~1,800 pins, so I prefer not to have pin limits. > > Any ideas on which software might meet my needs? I have $200 budgeted for > this, but would prefer to keep it under $200. Do-able? > > Cheers, > -Neil. > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

You might try this new software package: http://www.otl.co.uk/ It looks promising and getting in on the ground floor could be an inexpensive way to have the fully released version in the future. Unfortunately, EDA software is a niche market with relatively few target "seats" and requires an incredible effort to produce professional quality tools -- hence the large prices of most good tools. Matt Pobursky Maximum Performance Systems On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:58:17 -0500, PicDude wrote: {Quote hidden}> Hi all, > > I need to get schematic & PCB layout software that supports a large-sized PCB > ... ~14" x ~6" .... and possibly larger. I really like Eagle, am very > familiar with it, and there's trememdous support for it (in the way of > available libraries). But the Eagle version that supports this board size, > the Professional version, is $1200.... ouch! > > But time is easier to find than money nowadays, so I'm willing to re-create > all my own libraries if necessary. > > However, it must have an autorouter, and be able to generate 274X Gerber > files. I'd really like it to have the ability to rotate parts to arbitrary > angles, like Eagle 4.11. Linux or Windoze is fine with me. This current app > will have ~1,800 pins, so I prefer not to have pin limits. > > Any ideas on which software might meet my needs? I have $200 budgeted for > this, but would prefer to keep it under $200. Do-able? -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

I have used gEDA, open source, free programs with success for a small project: http://www.geda.seul.org I haven't tried it under Windows, just Linux. For prototypes I used and recommend: http://www.barebonespcb.com Good price and service. david On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:58:17 -0500 PicDude <picdude2spam_OUTNARWANI.ORG> wrote: {Quote hidden}> Hi all, > > I need to get schematic & PCB layout software that supports a large-sized PCB > ... ~14" x ~6" .... and possibly larger. I really like Eagle, am very > familiar with it, and there's trememdous support for it (in the way of > available libraries). But the Eagle version that supports this board size, > the Professional version, is $1200.... ouch! > > But time is easier to find than money nowadays, so I'm willing to re-create > all my own libraries if necessary. > > However, it must have an autorouter, and be able to generate 274X Gerber > files. I'd really like it to have the ability to rotate parts to arbitrary > angles, like Eagle 4.11. Linux or Windoze is fine with me. This current app > will have ~1,800 pins, so I prefer not to have pin limits. > > Any ideas on which software might meet my needs? I have $200 budgeted for > this, but would prefer to keep it under $200. Do-able? > > Cheers, > -Neil. > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

Actually, I'll disagree about the support part, and I won't touch Autotrax even if I have to pay much more. I tried it last year and it was extremely buggy, and crashed regularly. I also joined the yahoo group, but when I posted anything that hinted of problems with the software, my posts did not make it to the list. I could not even delete the software properly and my posts asking how to do this were moderated out. Eventually found out that the author/owner of the software, Ilija Kovic or something like that, was the list owner/moderator, and was filtering out any post that made his software look bad. Had some one-on-one emails with him and we agreed not to ever cross each others' paths again. But of course some months later, I got an email from him asking me to try the latest version. Cheers, -Neil. On Monday 12 April 2004 01:43 am, Bob Barr scribbled: {Quote hidden}> The only one that I know of that even comes close is AutoTRAX but it's > still not completely stable yet. For $95, you can get unlimited pins > and large board sizes. The autorouter isn't complete (it's pretty much > unusable) nor will it do arbitrary footprint rotation. There's pretty > good support at the Yahoo group. > > > http://www.autotraxeda.com > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/autotrax/ > > > Regards, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

It's an excellent idea! Especially since that's exactly what I did for the last application circuit I built. :-) I built ~9 separate circuits and bolted them together onto an aluminium sheet, then connected with lots of wires. But it was a major hassle, and the boards cost more since most PCB houses won't let you place multiple circuits on 1 board. So I felt that I wouldn't mind paying a couple hundred bux for some peace of mind, and perhaps recover some of that cost on PCB manufacturing. There must be some decent software out there at a decent-ish price. Cheers, -Neil. On Monday 12 April 2004 04:54 am, hamandi karim scribbled: {Quote hidden}> hey man > im now very experienced in eagle although i have it, I use orcad capture > and layout. its very expensive but very proffesional and effective. i > learned from my experience from orcad that when doing a schematic u might > want to devide it into heirarchical parts or pages, which brings us to > your problem, if u dont find a software that good at that low price try > deviding your application into several smaller boards, and connect them > with flat date cables or as you find suitable, as many applications can be > devided into sub groups. > take the example of an amplifier > > : preamp, two or three stage voltage amplifirer, then push pull current > > amplifiere. u see i devided my application into three parts. > try doing the same and reply to this telling me what u think. > regards karim hamandi -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

I have been doing that with Eagle too.... I've found that the maximum "free" size of Eagle is very usable for most of my projects. I will be purchasing the professional version, but more for the added layers than the bigger size. I've built a number of projects where I've stacked the boards. Processor board (PIC of course ;-), I/O board, Amplifier board, LCD, etc. I've been using single and dual row headers to interconnect to a female socket on the mating board. Works well, and can be pulled apart for rework/testing. These boards also fit into the 4 1/2" X 3 1/2" Diecast Al. boxes nicely if you don't have more than a 3 or 4-stack. These boxes can be gotten from Digikey, Newark, etc.... The more I try, the more I find I can fit within the limit... I'm beginning to think that I can fit anything on that size if I use all surface mount and place the parts right! DD On Mon, 2004-04-12 at 16:21, PicDude wrote: {Quote hidden}> It's an excellent idea! Especially since that's exactly what I did for the > last application circuit I built. :-) > > I built ~9 separate circuits and bolted them together onto an aluminium sheet, > then connected with lots of wires. But it was a major hassle, and the boards > cost more since most PCB houses won't let you place multiple circuits on 1 > board. So I felt that I wouldn't mind paying a couple hundred bux for some > peace of mind, and perhaps recover some of that cost on PCB manufacturing. > > There must be some decent software out there at a decent-ish price. > > Cheers, > -Neil. > > > > On Monday 12 April 2004 04:54 am, hamandi karim scribbled: > > hey man > > im now very experienced in eagle although i have it, I use orcad capture > > and layout. its very expensive but very proffesional and effective. i > > learned from my experience from orcad that when doing a schematic u might > > want to devide it into heirarchical parts or pages, which brings us to > > your problem, if u dont find a software that good at that low price try > > deviding your application into several smaller boards, and connect them > > with flat date cables or as you find suitable, as many applications can be > > devided into sub groups. > > take the example of an amplifier > > > > : preamp, two or three stage voltage amplifirer, then push pull current > > > > amplifiere. u see i devided my application into three parts. > > try doing the same and reply to this telling me what u think. > > regards karim hamandi > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

You COULD scale all the Eagle libraries down by a factor of 5, and then lay out up to a 15x20 inch board, and adjust the gerber output in some sort of gerber editor... I ALMOST did that for a board that was big but had very few components on it, but sanity prevailed... It would be Wrong, though... Even the full-scale version of Eagle is pretty cheap compared to most PCB packages. Rather than attaching multiple boards with wires, you might be able to have them terminate at 'well defined' interfaces at the edges of the individual parts, and then merge them with some sort of gerber tool... BillW -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

I was actually experimenting with this over the weekend, but as you know, there's no price yet ... until middle of the year. Cheers, -Neil. On Monday 12 April 2004 10:53 am, Matt Pobursky scribbled: {Quote hidden}> You might try this new software package: > > http://www.otl.co.uk/ > > It looks promising and getting in on the ground floor could be an > inexpensive way to have the fully released version in the future. > > Unfortunately, EDA software is a niche market with relatively few > target "seats" and requires an incredible effort to produce > professional quality tools -- hence the large prices of most good > tools. > > Matt Pobursky > Maximum Performance Systems > > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:58:17 -0500, PicDude wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I need to get schematic & PCB layout software that supports a large-sized > > PCB ... ~14" x ~6" .... and possibly larger. I really like Eagle, am > > very familiar with it, and there's trememdous support for it (in the way > > of available libraries). But the Eagle version that supports this board > > size, the Professional version, is $1200.... ouch! > > > > But time is easier to find than money nowadays, so I'm willing to > > re-create all my own libraries if necessary. > > > > However, it must have an autorouter, and be able to generate 274X Gerber > > files. I'd really like it to have the ability to rotate parts to > > arbitrary angles, like Eagle 4.11. Linux or Windoze is fine with me. > > This current app will have ~1,800 pins, so I prefer not to have pin > > limits. > > > > Any ideas on which software might meet my needs? I have $200 budgeted > > for this, but would prefer to keep it under $200. Do-able? -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

You are correct that you COULD merge multiple PCBs using a Gerber editor - there are several which would do the job. The problem is that a GOOD Gerber editor costs about half as much as the full Eagle Pro version, so you would have to decide if the extra time and potential problems are worth the price difference. Myself, I really hope to get enough work to justify purchasing the full package. Just a background, I have many years of experience with the PADS Power-Logic and Power-PCB packages ( and Blaze Router). Eagle doesn't do everything that PADs does, but it is a LOT cheaper. And, contrary to what some have said, the user interface is no more arcane than that of PADS - which is, quite frankly, user hostile. (At least this user) I actually found Eagle easier to use in a lot of ways. Just MHO - YMMV. Roy J. Gromlich - Senior Engineer Renaissance Technologies {Original Message removed}

On Monday 12 April 2004 10:54 am, David Koski scribbled: > I have used gEDA, open source, free programs with success for a small > project: > > http://www.geda.seul.org Wow. This looks promising. Will experiment. Thanks. > I haven't tried it under Windows, just Linux. For prototypes I used and > recommend: > > http://www.barebonespcb.com I actually use these folks periodically, especially since they allow panelizing and multiple ciruits. But when I want/need silkscreen, soldermask, etc, I use eprotos.com Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Monday 12 April 2004 06:43 pm, Dan Devine scribbled: > I have been doing that with Eagle too.... I've found that the maximum > "free" size of Eagle is very usable for most of my projects. I will be > purchasing the professional version, but more for the added layers than > the bigger size. Also been thinking I might like to (or need to) do a 4-layer board sometime soon. > I've built a number of projects where I've stacked the boards. > Processor board (PIC of course ;-), I/O board, Amplifier board, LCD, > etc. I've been using single and dual row headers to interconnect to a > female socket on the mating board. Works well, and can be pulled apart > for rework/testing. I've done a bunch of stacked boards like this, but I soldered the headers to both boards, with the intention of saving space (thickness). That is, of course, until I needed to make the first repair :-( Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Monday 12 April 2004 06:44 pm, William Chops Westfield scribbled: > You COULD scale all the Eagle libraries down by a factor of 5, and then > lay out up to a 15x20 inch board, and adjust the gerber output in some > sort of gerber editor... I ALMOST did that for a board that was big > but had very few components on it, but sanity prevailed... > It would be Wrong, though... Even the full-scale version of Eagle is > pretty cheap compared to most PCB packages. Wow, this is a pretty cool idea. Perhaps I could just design in mm to make live easier, but generate the gerber as if it were in inches. That would make editing almost "natural". I really must try this sometime. > Rather than attaching multiple boards with wires, you might be able to > have them terminate at 'well defined' interfaces at the edges of the > individual parts, and then merge them with some sort of gerber tool... I actually tried this once when I needed to layout a board for a "head unit" for my car mp3 player. It was a major hassle, even for something simple as that, but perhaps this was more so since it was one circuit and alignment of holes between boards was critical. Might be easier for multiple interconnected circuits, though. Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Monday 12 April 2004 10:02 pm, Roy J. Gromlich scribbled: > You are correct that you COULD merge multiple PCBs using a > Gerber editor - there are several which would do the job. The > problem is that a GOOD Gerber editor costs about half as much > as the full Eagle Pro version, so you would have to decide if the > extra time and potential problems are worth the price difference. How about this... http://claymore.engineer.gvsu.edu/~steriana/Python/gerbmerge/ > Myself, I really hope to get enough work to justify purchasing the > full package. ... That'll be some time away for me. > Just a background, I have many years of experience > with the PADS Power-Logic and Power-PCB packages ( and > Blaze Router). Eagle doesn't do everything that PADs does, but > it is a LOT cheaper. And, contrary to what some have said, the > user interface is no more arcane than that of PADS - which is, > quite frankly, user hostile. (At least this user) I actually found > Eagle easier to use in a lot of ways. At this point, Eagle meets and/or exceeds what I need. It's just a pricing issue for me. I've used Mentor in the past (like the 17th century, when I was in college) on Apollo workstations, and found it very nice. But at that time, I did mostly schematic capture and logic-circuit simulation. Can't remember seeing any PIC libraries though. :-) Cheers, -Neil., -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Hello, Just one world to talk about the software i am currently using : TARGET 3001. After testing most of other soft, I am now sure that is is the best in term of simplicity/performance. Even if it has not the same quality/complexity as ORCAD, for many designs it is the right choice. Bertrand Rozier http://www.pragmatec.net http://www.picos18.com -----Message d'origine----- De : pic microcontroller discussion list [KILLspamPICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]De la part de PicDude Envoyé : mardi 13 avril 2004 09:21 À : RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU Objet : Re: [EE:] Good schematic & PCB layout software? So the current potential lineup I have (and need to evaluate) is: - Performance EDA - PC Logic - gEDA And still in the running is: - Eagle (if I want to cough up the $$$). BTW, the full-blown Eagle pro version should import .sch files I already have from the light/freeware version, right? So if I decided to go with Eagle pro, why would I need the schematic editor for $400? Couldn't I just use the schematic editor in the light version? Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 09/04/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.656 / Virus Database: 421 - Release Date: 09/04/2004 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

I was using this software up until about 2 or 3 years ago and switched. I was laying out a board (8"X8") and only had a couple of components left to add when it reached its limit. I emailed the author and after a week he did send me a custom version that would allow a few more components so I could finish it up but apparently its 16bit or DOS based or something and I had hit the limit. I don't know if it's better now but I wasn't impressed with it. Its bound to have been improved now. It's certainly cheap enough to try and I see now you can download a demo version. The software I'm using now, Circad from http://www.holophase.com is ok but it doesn't autoroute so I'd be interested in a better product at a reasonable price. Just afraid to try PC logic again. Good luck, FJ ====================================================== Okay ... I'm looking at the PC Logic website now. Looks promising. I'll be back.... Thanks, -Neil. On Monday 12 April 2004 07:10 am, spamBeGonevictorf57spamBeGoneCOX.NET scribbled: > google for pclogic, cheap,auto router,2 layer only,large size. > also look at rimu pcb also cheap but no auto router. > regards > victor -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics _________________________________________________________________ Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for 2 months! http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On the web site it said the max size was 16x 10 or????. And I have had no problem,other then a couple months ago I needed to panelize and there was no way to do this, since pclogic didn't have a copy paste command so I contacted Brad, the owner and told him the problem he did say that he was working on this but, I had to go with Rimu because I couldn't wait. But he has emailed me my Upgrade and it can now panelize. I do prefere PClogic over some others I have tried because it's a very short learning curve. very simple interface. regards victor {Quote hidden}> > From: fred jones <TakeThisOuTboattowEraseMEspam_OUTHOTMAIL.COM> > Date: 2004/04/13 Tue AM 08:26:27 EDT > To: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [EE:] Good schematic & PCB layout software? > > I was using this software up until about 2 or 3 years ago and switched. I > was laying out a board (8"X8") and only had a couple of components left to > add when it reached its limit. I emailed the author and after a week he did > send me a custom version that would allow a few more components so I could > finish it up but apparently its 16bit or DOS based or something and I had > hit the limit. I don't know if it's better now but I wasn't impressed with > it. Its bound to have been improved now. It's certainly cheap enough to > try and I see now you can download a demo version. The software I'm using > now, Circad from http://www.holophase.com is ok but it doesn't autoroute so I'd be > interested in a better product at a reasonable price. Just afraid to try PC > logic again. > Good luck, > FJ > > ====================================================== > Okay ... I'm looking at the PC Logic website now. Looks promising. I'll be > back.... > > Thanks, > -Neil. > > > On Monday 12 April 2004 07:10 am, victorf57EraseME.....COX.NET scribbled: > > google for pclogic, cheap,auto router,2 layer only,large size. > > also look at rimu pcb also cheap but no auto router. > > regards > > victor > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > > _________________________________________________________________ > Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for 2 > months! > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

<excess snipped> >There must be some decent software out there at a decent-ish price. > >Cheers, >-Neil. Until recently, I would have suggested Proteus Lite, by Labcenter Electronics. It's a good product, and I've used it happily for three years. I recently upgraded to the lowest end of their professional products, and they've been great with tech support and the product is solid. Unfortunately, they recently hobbled the Lite version, removing the option to purchase the additional CAD/CAM capability. If you don't need CAD/CAM output (but I can't imagine why you wouldn't), have a look at http://www.proteuslite.com. It really is a heck of product. The professional version with a 2k pin count is above your price range (~$600US), but might well be worth a look, because it has a lot of bells and whistles. You could also contact them and see if the CAD/CAM output option is still available, just not on the website. The North American contact is Don Jackson, and he's a heck of a nice guy. I've found the Proteus software to be much better than others I've tried. ESPECIALLY Eagle. I'll be sticking with it for some time to come. Mike H. _________________________________________________________________ Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar FREE! http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Hi, you could look at http://www.easytrax.co.uk, and look their Ranger2 software. We use its predecessor in production. Its strength is the ripup-and-retry autorouter which saved us hundreds of working hours. The pin count is theoretically limited, but 16384 pin is really not a pain. The price is affordable, indeed. Regards, Imre +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity | | to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or | | privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or | | other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this | | information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient | | is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the | | sender and delete the material from any computer. | +-----------------------------------------------------------------------+ On Mon, 12 Apr 2004, PicDude wrote: {Quote hidden}> I was actually experimenting with this over the weekend, but as you know, > there's no price yet ... until middle of the year. > > Cheers, > -Neil. > > > > On Monday 12 April 2004 10:53 am, Matt Pobursky scribbled: > > You might try this new software package: > > > > http://www.otl.co.uk/ > > > > It looks promising and getting in on the ground floor could be an > > inexpensive way to have the fully released version in the future. > > > > Unfortunately, EDA software is a niche market with relatively few > > target "seats" and requires an incredible effort to produce > > professional quality tools -- hence the large prices of most good > > tools. > > > > Matt Pobursky > > Maximum Performance Systems > > > > On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 00:58:17 -0500, PicDude wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I need to get schematic & PCB layout software that supports a large-sized > > > PCB ... ~14" x ~6" .... and possibly larger. I really like Eagle, am > > > very familiar with it, and there's trememdous support for it (in the way > > > of available libraries). But the Eagle version that supports this board > > > size, the Professional version, is $1200.... ouch! > > > > > > But time is easier to find than money nowadays, so I'm willing to > > > re-create all my own libraries if necessary. > > > > > > However, it must have an autorouter, and be able to generate 274X Gerber > > > files. I'd really like it to have the ability to rotate parts to > > > arbitrary angles, like Eagle 4.11. Linux or Windoze is fine with me. > > > This current app will have ~1,800 pins, so I prefer not to have pin > > > limits. > > > > > > Any ideas on which software might meet my needs? I have $200 budgeted > > > for this, but would prefer to keep it under $200. Do-able? > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email EraseMElistservmitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Hello, do I miss something but AFAIK Circad (for DOS, at least) definitely has a built-in autorouter. Imre On Tue, 13 Apr 2004, fred jones wrote: {Quote hidden}> I was using this software up until about 2 or 3 years ago and switched. I > was laying out a board (8"X8") and only had a couple of components left to > add when it reached its limit. I emailed the author and after a week he did > send me a custom version that would allow a few more components so I could > finish it up but apparently its 16bit or DOS based or something and I had > hit the limit. I don't know if it's better now but I wasn't impressed with > it. Its bound to have been improved now. It's certainly cheap enough to > try and I see now you can download a demo version. The software I'm using > now, Circad from http://www.holophase.com is ok but it doesn't autoroute so I'd be > interested in a better product at a reasonable price. Just afraid to try PC > logic again. > Good luck, > FJ > > ====================================================== > Okay ... I'm looking at the PC Logic website now. Looks promising. I'll be > back.... > > Thanks, > -Neil. > > > On Monday 12 April 2004 07:10 am, RemoveMEvictorf57EraseMEEraseMECOX.NET scribbled: > > google for pclogic, cheap,auto router,2 layer only,large size. > > also look at rimu pcb also cheap but no auto router. > > regards > > victor > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > > _________________________________________________________________ > Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for 2 > months! > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email RemoveMElistservspam_OUTKILLspammitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body

Okay, I downloaded the lite version, and experimented with it for a bit. Seems like a pretty well-made product, with a good library which includes PIC components. But there are significant limitations, such as, as you mention, the inability to generate Gerber outputs, and the inability to generate netlists. Also, I don't have a firm answer to this, but it seems that you get a certain # of library parts, and have to pay for others after that. I've calculated my circuit's expected pin-count, and come to a result of between 1800 and 2000. Of course if makes sense to have some overhead to that, so let's say 3000. The profession version of Proteus that supports that is way beyond my budget. :-( Cheers, -Neil. On Tuesday 13 April 2004 08:23 am, Mike Hord scribbled: {Quote hidden}> Until recently, I would have suggested Proteus Lite, by Labcenter > Electronics. It's a good product, and I've used it happily for three > years. I recently upgraded to the lowest end of their professional > products, and they've been great with tech support and the > product is solid. > > Unfortunately, they recently hobbled the Lite version, removing > the option to purchase the additional CAD/CAM capability. If you > don't need CAD/CAM output (but I can't imagine why you wouldn't), > have a look at http://www.proteuslite.com. It really is a heck of product. > > The professional version with a 2k pin count is above your price > range (~$600US), but might well be worth a look, because it has > a lot of bells and whistles. You could also contact them and see > if the CAD/CAM output option is still available, just not on the > website. The North American contact is Don Jackson, and he's > a heck of a nice guy. > > I've found the Proteus software to be much better than others I've > tried. ESPECIALLY Eagle. I'll be sticking with it for some time to > come. > > Mike H. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar FREE! > http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

PC Logic is still high in the running for me, but I wish that I could test the full dev cycle -- saving a project, exporting netlists, created a board from the schematic, etc -- even if it were limited to a few components. But I'm still playing with it. Cheers, -Neil. On Tuesday 13 April 2004 07:56 am, RemoveMEvictorf57KILLspamCOX.NET scribbled: {Quote hidden}> On the web site it said the max size was 16x 10 or????. > And I have had no problem,other then a couple months ago > I needed to panelize and there was no way to do this, since pclogic didn't > have a copy paste command so I contacted Brad, the owner and told him the > problem he did say that he was working on this but, I had to go with Rimu > because I couldn't wait. But he has emailed me my Upgrade and it can now > panelize. > I do prefere PClogic over some others I have tried because > it's a very short learning curve. > very simple interface. > regards > victor > > > From: fred jones <boattowSTOPspamspam_OUTHOTMAIL.COM> > > Date: 2004/04/13 Tue AM 08:26:27 EDT > > To: spamBeGonePICLISTSTOPspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU > > Subject: Re: [EE:] Good schematic & PCB layout software? > > > > I was using this software up until about 2 or 3 years ago and switched. > > I was laying out a board (8"X8") and only had a couple of components left > > to add when it reached its limit. I emailed the author and after a week > > he did send me a custom version that would allow a few more components so > > I could finish it up but apparently its 16bit or DOS based or something > > and I had hit the limit. I don't know if it's better now but I wasn't > > impressed with it. Its bound to have been improved now. It's certainly > > cheap enough to try and I see now you can download a demo version. The > > software I'm using now, Circad from http://www.holophase.com is ok but it > > doesn't autoroute so I'd be interested in a better product at a > > reasonable price. Just afraid to try PC logic again. > > Good luck, > > FJ > > > > ====================================================== > > Okay ... I'm looking at the PC Logic website now. Looks promising. I'll > > be back.... > > > > Thanks, > > -Neil. > > > > On Monday 12 April 2004 07:10 am, KILLspamvictorf57spamBeGoneCOX.NET scribbled: > > > google for pclogic, cheap,auto router,2 layer only,large size. > > > also look at rimu pcb also cheap but no auto router. > > > regards > > > victor > > > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Limited-time offer: Fast, reliable MSN 9 Dial-up Internet access FREE for > > 2 months! > > join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361a > >ve/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

On Tuesday 13 April 2004 06:54 am, Alan B. Pearce scribbled: > >I had sort of not bothered with this, since it did not have an autorouter. > > Is the autorouter that important? With ~2000 pins, yes it is. > It seems to me that for the price you are prepared to invest this is the > first thing that will need to be dispensed with. Perhaps this is just my > lack of experience with an autorouter showing, but I wonder if it really > does make life that much easier than moving things around and having the > rubber band lines show the connections. A lot of the programs out there have features I don't need, and I'd be willing to sacrifice those first ... like 4+ layer boards, SPICE/simulation, EMC analysis, etc. All I need is Eagle lite (freeware version), but with a larger board area. It's out there, and I'll find it .... :-) Cheers, -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

I've actually tested this, using a free version I got from the folks at PCB-Pool. Only significant limitation on the free version is that it won't generate Gerber outputs. But I stopped evaluating it when I realized that for the capacity I need (~2000 pins), I'd need the version costing UKP1,700 ! One other annoyance with it is that it was ported from German (?), and poorly so. So there are remnants of German works everywhere, and European formats that make it a bit more confusing to use. Cheers, -Neil. On Tuesday 13 April 2004 03:51 am, Bertrand Rozier scribbled: {Quote hidden}> Hello, > > Just one world to talk about the software i am currently using : TARGET > 3001. > After testing most of other soft, I am now sure that is is the best in term > of simplicity/performance. > Even if it has not the same quality/complexity as ORCAD, for many designs > it is the right choice. > > Bertrand Rozier > http://www.pragmatec.net > http://www.picos18.com > > -----Message d'origine----- > De : pic microcontroller discussion list > [EraseMEPICLISTEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU]De la part de PicDude > Envoyé : mardi 13 avril 2004 09:21 > À : @spam@PICLIST@spam@spam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Objet : Re: [EE:] Good schematic & PCB layout software? > > > So the current potential lineup I have (and need to evaluate) is: > - Performance EDA > - PC Logic > - gEDA > > And still in the running is: > - Eagle (if I want to cough up the $$$). > > > BTW, the full-blown Eagle pro version should import .sch files I already > have > from the light/freeware version, right? So if I decided to go with Eagle > pro, why would I need the schematic editor for $400? Couldn't I just use > the > schematic editor in the light version? > > Cheers, > -Neil. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Give protel a shot. It's got a free 35 day license... Shawn Wilton Junior in CpE MicroBiologist Phone: (503) 881-2707 Email: spamBeGoneshawnKILLspamblack9.net http://black9.net PicDude wrote: {Quote hidden}> Okay, I downloaded the lite version, and experimented with it for a bit. > Seems like a pretty well-made product, with a good library which includes PIC > components. But there are significant limitations, such as, as you mention, > the inability to generate Gerber outputs, and the inability to generate > netlists. Also, I don't have a firm answer to this, but it seems that you > get a certain # of library parts, and have to pay for others after that. > > I've calculated my circuit's expected pin-count, and come to a result of > between 1800 and 2000. Of course if makes sense to have some overhead to > that, so let's say 3000. The profession version of Proteus that supports > that is way beyond my budget. :-( > > Cheers, > -Neil. > > > > On Tuesday 13 April 2004 08:23 am, Mike Hord scribbled: > >>Until recently, I would have suggested Proteus Lite, by Labcenter >>Electronics. It's a good product, and I've used it happily for three >>years. I recently upgraded to the lowest end of their professional >>products, and they've been great with tech support and the >>product is solid. >> >>Unfortunately, they recently hobbled the Lite version, removing >>the option to purchase the additional CAD/CAM capability. If you >>don't need CAD/CAM output (but I can't imagine why you wouldn't), >>have a look at http://www.proteuslite.com. It really is a heck of product. >> >>The professional version with a 2k pin count is above your price >>range (~$600US), but might well be worth a look, because it has >>a lot of bells and whistles. You could also contact them and see >>if the CAD/CAM output option is still available, just not on the >>website. The North American contact is Don Jackson, and he's >>a heck of a nice guy. >> >>I've found the Proteus software to be much better than others I've >>tried. ESPECIALLY Eagle. I'll be sticking with it for some time to >>come. >> >>Mike H. >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar FREE! >>http://toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Except, if I like it, I'll need to cough up $7,995 for it. Anyone have $7,994 I can borrow? :-) Cheers, -Neil. On Sunday 18 April 2004 08:32 am, Shawn Wilton scribbled: {Quote hidden}> Give protel a shot. It's got a free 35 day license... > > > Shawn Wilton > Junior in CpE > MicroBiologist > > Phone: (503) 881-2707 > Email: .....shawnspam_OUTblack9.net > > http://black9.net > > PicDude wrote: > > Okay, I downloaded the lite version, and experimented with it for a bit. > > Seems like a pretty well-made product, with a good library which includes > > PIC components. But there are significant limitations, such as, as you > > mention, the inability to generate Gerber outputs, and the inability to > > generate netlists. Also, I don't have a firm answer to this, but it > > seems that you get a certain # of library parts, and have to pay for > > others after that. > > > > I've calculated my circuit's expected pin-count, and come to a result of > > between 1800 and 2000. Of course if makes sense to have some overhead to > > that, so let's say 3000. The profession version of Proteus that supports > > that is way beyond my budget. :-( > > > > Cheers, > > -Neil. > > > > On Tuesday 13 April 2004 08:23 am, Mike Hord scribbled: > >>Until recently, I would have suggested Proteus Lite, by Labcenter > >>Electronics. It's a good product, and I've used it happily for three > >>years. I recently upgraded to the lowest end of their professional > >>products, and they've been great with tech support and the > >>product is solid. > >> > >>Unfortunately, they recently hobbled the Lite version, removing > >>the option to purchase the additional CAD/CAM capability. If you > >>don't need CAD/CAM output (but I can't imagine why you wouldn't), > >>have a look at http://www.proteuslite.com. It really is a heck of product. > >> > >>The professional version with a 2k pin count is above your price > >>range (~$600US), but might well be worth a look, because it has > >>a lot of bells and whistles. You could also contact them and see > >>if the CAD/CAM output option is still available, just not on the > >>website. The North American contact is Don Jackson, and he's > >>a heck of a nice guy. > >> > >>I've found the Proteus software to be much better than others I've > >>tried. ESPECIALLY Eagle. I'll be sticking with it for some time to > >>come. > >> > >>Mike H. > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________ > >>Get rid of annoying pop-up ads with the new MSN Toolbar FREE! > >>toolbar.msn.com/go/onm00200414ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.