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'[EE:] Cordless grounding strap...!!???'
2003\12\17@170155 by M. Adam Davis

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This particular online retailer has always impressed me with their low
prices and excellent customer support with a wide variety of products.
Until now I've considered them somewhat knowledgable about the items
they sell:

http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W

I can't fathom how this might work.  It doesn't take batteries, and so
what good is wearing a metal object on an elastic band going to do
against static?  I wear a watch with a metal back and band, does it
perform better than this?

It's outside my admittedly minute realm of knowledge.

Perhaps the instructions inside tell the user to touch the metal screw
on the back to a grounded object every so often...?  I suppose the
benefit then is that you don't feel the spark that occurs between the
screw and whatever poor object you ground it against...

-Adam

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2003\12\17@193837 by Russell McMahon

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Excerpt from below:

The strap MUST be rubbed with Snake Oil (tm) before initial use and at least
once a week thereafter or it will not work.

>Cordless grounding strap...!!???
...
> http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W
>
> I can't fathom how this might work.

> Perhaps the instructions inside tell the user to touch the metal screw
> on the back to a grounded object every so often...?

They DO say that you need to wear it for 15 minutes prior to needing it to
be operating so it's NOT just a touch to discharge system. Such a system
would in any case be ineffective.

I sent the email below to

   https://www.compgeeks.com/mailto.asp


Their response will be interesting.
A cordless ground strap MAY be able to be realised using eg an ionisation
source (positive and negative may be required) and an electrostatic voltage
detection system. Such a device may be able to be designed to be able to be
built into a wrist band and operate without batteries, but not this century
probably.

It will be interesting to see what they say, if anything.

Anyone wanting Snake Oil (tm) - I have litre bottles available for only
$US247 + $39 P&P (international delivery)



           Russell McMahon

_________________

EMAIL SENT TO COMPGEEKS:
________________________


There is a vital warning missing from the description of the cordless
grounding strap on your page at

   http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W

The strap MUST be rubbed with Snake Oil (tm) before initial use and at least
once a week thereafter or it will not work. If no snake oil is available
then connection of a high resistance ground lead (1 megohm or so preferred)
will render the strap effective until Snake Oil can be procured.

If this product was being offered for sale in my country I would be
referring it to our Commerce Commission. As it is in the US I am only
sending this message.

regards

     Russell McMahon  ME(elec)

___________________________________________________________
If we have already accidentally created an unexpectedly lethal virus
by single gene transfer, why should we believe that it might not happen
again, once or on numerous occasions in future, but in less controlled
circumstances?


{Original Message removed}

2003\12\17@195121 by Richard.Prosser

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How much for local delivery ?   I might need some on April 1st next year.

RP






Anyone wanting Snake Oil (tm) - I have litre bottles available for only
$US247 + $39 P&P (international delivery)



           Russell McMahon

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2003\12\17@195328 by Jinx

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http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W

Product Requirements
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

Wrist

On behalf of the wrist-less I'd like to poke my PC nose in and
call for a class-action suit

Who's with me ? Show of hands ?

============================================

Re whether a cgs will work

Good collection of static electricity links

http://www.amasci.com/emotor/statelec.html

Under "Scams and health claims"

esdsupport.esdsystems.com/qanda/question.asp?showsidebar=no&action=qu
estion&id=1035

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2003\12\17@201824 by Tom

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Yeah, ain't that sumpin'?!

Not only that but earlier today, there were a couple of jokers from New
Zealand trying to convince people "they" were the first to fly powered
aircraft...


At 01:51 PM 12/18/03 +1300, Jinx wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\17@202659 by Jinx

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> Not only that but earlier today, there were a couple of jokers from
> New Zealand trying to convince people "they" were the first to fly
> powered aircraft...

tut-tut, hopeful muppets

Haven't we been here before ? I thought someone claimed last
year that there was a Frenchman/Belgian/something-like-that who
could also have flown first

I wonder who'll be last to fly ?

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2003\12\17@202700 by David Schmidt
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It's probably filled with some radioactive isotope like they use on air
nozzle ionizers :-)

Dave

At 01:51 PM 12/18/2003 +1300, you wrote:
>  http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W

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2003\12\17@203111 by M. Adam Davis

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Thanks.  The following was also interesting, a description of what's inside:

from
http://esdsupport.esdsystems.com/qanda/question.asp?showsidebar=no&action=question&id=17

Question:    A cohort purchased several "wireless" ESD wrists straps for
his PC maintenance bench. He was told they worked similar to a corona
wire on a copier/laser printer. I thought it may be a part of a
composite system, but he said the need for other equipment was not
mentioned. He is now convinced it does not work by itself as he was
shocked while opening his car door (while wearing the strap). There is a
small oblong monolith attached to the cloth-elastic strap, which a brass
colored screw is screwed into. The head of the screw is exposed. I
carefully opened one with a dremmel tool and found a 1M resistor wired
between a second screw which contacts the wrist contact-plate and a soft
rubbery "C" shaped plate (about 1 mm thick, 2 cm sq with a chunk removed
forming this c-shape) which the brass colored screw contacts. Does this
sound like anything viable? - Anonymous, S. Portland, ME

Answer:

No. This is not a viable ESD control device to employ in ESD safe areas.
These passive "wireless" wrist straps have severe limitations. Assuming
you were tribocharged to 10 KV and wearing the "wireless" wrist strap,
it would take many hours (days even depending on the ambient RH) to get
you below 5 KV, never the less 10 Volts. Most (if not all) of the charge
reduction would be due to natural recombination of the charges on your
skin (and now metal casing of your "wireless" wrist strap) with the air
molecules and the natural conductance of the air through water vapor
content (RH).

P.S. You could get the same effect by cutting your hair to about 1/4"
long and then putting conductive jell in your hair. The ends of your now
conductive hair would act like corona discharge points at extremely high
voltages to bleed current into the air or help to enhance the natural
recombination process. The fact that your hair would need to come in
very close proximity [0.1 to 1.5 inches] to ground or any other
potential with at least a 3 Kilovolt difference (due to the dielectric
strength of air) or enhancing the natural conductivity of the air needs
to be considered to even get you down below a few KV.


Jinx wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\17@203321 by Russell McMahon

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> Not only that but earlier today, there were a couple of jokers from New
> Zealand trying to convince people "they" were the first to fly powered
> aircraft...

Nah. We never claimed it was us guys - the dude who did it died years ago.

And he wasn't the first - just one of the one's who did it before the Dayton
guys. But the Dayton guys did it better (after the 1st few tries) , more
consistently, far more often, had far more documentation of what they did,
built good instrumentation and research equipment to support their efforts
and achieved far greater commercial success. They deserve honouring. As do
Pearse and the others.



       RM

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2003\12\17@203937 by Robert Ussery

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Check it out, folks!
www.esdjournal.com/techpapr/sfowler/wireless.htm
A good review and dissection of wireless wrist strap technology...

For those of you who don't want to look at the link, the page basically says
that it comes with a normal wire, and all that is on the inside is a 1M
resistor... IOW, it works as long as it's connected to its grounding wire.

Corona principle and all that, you know?!

<Groan>

- Robert

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2003\12\18@084606 by al smith

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Isnt it obvious....it collects electrons in the band, and then discharges
when it gets full....after you touch a grounded object.  But...what happens
if your isolated for the day....would it blow your arm off?

oops..guess should have waited till April to post this


{Quote hidden}

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2003\12\18@130010 by llile

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This is something like my Cordless Battery charger.  I sell a free can of
instant water (just add water) with every purchase.




-- Lawrence Lile





al smith <RemoveMEmicro_eng2EraseMEspamEraseMEHOTMAIL.COM>
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12/18/2003 07:44 AM
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       Subject:        Re: [EE:] Cordless grounding strap...!!???


Isnt it obvious....it collects electrons in the band, and then discharges
when it gets full....after you touch a grounded object.  But...what
happens
if your isolated for the day....would it blow your arm off?

oops..guess should have waited till April to post this


{Quote hidden}

_________________________________________________________________
Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home.
http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx

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2003\12\19@114814 by M. Adam Davis

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Robert Ussery wrote:

>Check it out, folks!
>www.esdjournal.com/techpapr/sfowler/wireless.htm
>A good review and dissection of wireless wrist strap technology...
>
>
>
That's great.  Here's the reply I got from computergeeks, and the email
I sent to them:
----------------------------------------

Thank you for this email - we will be pulling this item down till we can
confirm or deny the issue.

Thank you again for bringing to our attention

The Geeks

{Original Message removed}

2003\12\20@040553 by Daniel Dourneau

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part 1 1527 bytes content-type:text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-542B7ED2; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed (unknown type 8bit not decoded)

This ESD protection device is based on "Corona effect"

It is NOT ACCEPTABLE as an effective ESD protection system on a production
line for electronic equipment.
Can be used by people inspecting the production floor or people
transporting crates full of equipped PCB.
In no way it should be used by people handling PCBs populated with
semiconductor devices.

This was quite popular some years ago and we had to spend much time and
persuasion to get these completely banned from production floors. Even
"strap devices" can fail and are often not used the correct way, so just
think about these.

ESD is a major issue and is getting worse daily since semiconductor
technologies bring design rules in the range of 90 nm and shrinking all the
time. It does not take much to "blast" these things.
At 23:00 17/12/03, you wrote:


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2003\12\20@165737 by Jim Tellier

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l.lile wrote:
> This is something like my Cordless Battery charger.  I sell a free can of
> instant water (just add water) with every purchase.
>
:^) :^) ... all this chat reminds me of a very "novel" high-tech
"professional" audio component that I saw advertised a couple of years
ago... it was an basically a piece of WOOD (exotic/nicely polished) that you
were supposed to place on top of your speaker box to improve the quality of
the sound (!)  Yup, you'd probably want to polish these with that snake oil,
no doubt!!!!
Jim
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'[EE:] Cordless grounding strap...!!???'
2004\02\03@192114 by M. Adam Davis
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Well, the product is back up, but with a note:

   * Note:
   * Use of this product will not provide total static protection. It
     will provide
   * limited static protection to a mobile static problem. It should
     not be
   * considered as a replacement for the best method of static protection,
   * the use of grounded mats and corded wrist straps.

I like the part about "limited static protection to a mobile static
problem"  My static is very mobile, it moves every chance it gets.
Limited is right too - the corona effect could easily be considered
'limited'.  "Should not be considered as a replacement for ... corded
wrist straps" should be in bold.

Ah well.  It's better than nothing.  Means they probably won't stock the
item again once it sells out... if it sells out...

-Adam


M. Adam Davis wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

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