Post by thread:[EE:] Cordless grounding strap...!!???

This particular online retailer has always impressed me with their low prices and excellent customer support with a wide variety of products. Until now I've considered them somewhat knowledgable about the items they sell: http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W I can't fathom how this might work. It doesn't take batteries, and so what good is wearing a metal object on an elastic band going to do against static? I wear a watch with a metal back and band, does it perform better than this? It's outside my admittedly minute realm of knowledge. Perhaps the instructions inside tell the user to touch the metal screw on the back to a grounded object every so often...? I suppose the benefit then is that you don't feel the spark that occurs between the screw and whatever poor object you ground it against... -Adam -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList spam_OUTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu

Excerpt from below: The strap MUST be rubbed with Snake Oil (tm) before initial use and at least once a week thereafter or it will not work. >Cordless grounding strap...!!??? ... > http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W > > I can't fathom how this might work. > Perhaps the instructions inside tell the user to touch the metal screw > on the back to a grounded object every so often...? They DO say that you need to wear it for 15 minutes prior to needing it to be operating so it's NOT just a touch to discharge system. Such a system would in any case be ineffective. I sent the email below to https://www.compgeeks.com/mailto.asp Their response will be interesting. A cordless ground strap MAY be able to be realised using eg an ionisation source (positive and negative may be required) and an electrostatic voltage detection system. Such a device may be able to be designed to be able to be built into a wrist band and operate without batteries, but not this century probably. It will be interesting to see what they say, if anything. Anyone wanting Snake Oil (tm) - I have litre bottles available for only $US247 + $39 P&P (international delivery) Russell McMahon _________________ EMAIL SENT TO COMPGEEKS: ________________________ There is a vital warning missing from the description of the cordless grounding strap on your page at http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W The strap MUST be rubbed with Snake Oil (tm) before initial use and at least once a week thereafter or it will not work. If no snake oil is available then connection of a high resistance ground lead (1 megohm or so preferred) will render the strap effective until Snake Oil can be procured. If this product was being offered for sale in my country I would be referring it to our Commerce Commission. As it is in the US I am only sending this message. regards Russell McMahon ME(elec) ___________________________________________________________ If we have already accidentally created an unexpectedly lethal virus by single gene transfer, why should we believe that it might not happen again, once or on numerous occasions in future, but in less controlled circumstances? {Original Message removed}

http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W Product Requirements ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Wrist On behalf of the wrist-less I'd like to poke my PC nose in and call for a class-action suit Who's with me ? Show of hands ? ============================================ Re whether a cgs will work Good collection of static electricity links http://www.amasci.com/emotor/statelec.html Under "Scams and health claims" esdsupport.esdsystems.com/qanda/question.asp?showsidebar=no&action=qu estion&id=1035 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

Yeah, ain't that sumpin'?! Not only that but earlier today, there were a couple of jokers from New Zealand trying to convince people "they" were the first to fly powered aircraft... At 01:51 PM 12/18/03 +1300, Jinx wrote: {Quote hidden}> http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W > >Product Requirements >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > >Wrist > >On behalf of the wrist-less I'd like to poke my PC nose in and >call for a class-action suit > >Who's with me ? Show of hands ? > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList .....piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspam.....mitvma.mit.edu

Thanks. The following was also interesting, a description of what's inside: from http://esdsupport.esdsystems.com/qanda/question.asp?showsidebar=no&action=question&id=17 Question: A cohort purchased several "wireless" ESD wrists straps for his PC maintenance bench. He was told they worked similar to a corona wire on a copier/laser printer. I thought it may be a part of a composite system, but he said the need for other equipment was not mentioned. He is now convinced it does not work by itself as he was shocked while opening his car door (while wearing the strap). There is a small oblong monolith attached to the cloth-elastic strap, which a brass colored screw is screwed into. The head of the screw is exposed. I carefully opened one with a dremmel tool and found a 1M resistor wired between a second screw which contacts the wrist contact-plate and a soft rubbery "C" shaped plate (about 1 mm thick, 2 cm sq with a chunk removed forming this c-shape) which the brass colored screw contacts. Does this sound like anything viable? - Anonymous, S. Portland, ME Answer: No. This is not a viable ESD control device to employ in ESD safe areas. These passive "wireless" wrist straps have severe limitations. Assuming you were tribocharged to 10 KV and wearing the "wireless" wrist strap, it would take many hours (days even depending on the ambient RH) to get you below 5 KV, never the less 10 Volts. Most (if not all) of the charge reduction would be due to natural recombination of the charges on your skin (and now metal casing of your "wireless" wrist strap) with the air molecules and the natural conductance of the air through water vapor content (RH). P.S. You could get the same effect by cutting your hair to about 1/4" long and then putting conductive jell in your hair. The ends of your now conductive hair would act like corona discharge points at extremely high voltages to bleed current into the air or help to enhance the natural recombination process. The fact that your hair would need to come in very close proximity [0.1 to 1.5 inches] to ground or any other potential with at least a 3 Kilovolt difference (due to the dielectric strength of air) or enhancing the natural conductivity of the air needs to be considered to even get you down below a few KV. Jinx wrote: {Quote hidden}> http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W > >Product Requirements >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > >Wrist > >On behalf of the wrist-less I'd like to poke my PC nose in and >call for a class-action suit > >Who's with me ? Show of hands ? > >============================================ > >Re whether a cgs will work > >Good collection of static electricity links > >http://www.amasci.com/emotor/statelec.html > >Under "Scams and health claims" > >esdsupport.esdsystems.com/qanda/question.asp?showsidebar=no&action=qu >estion&id=1035 > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList >@spam@piclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspammitvma.mit.edu > > > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList KILLspampiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

> Not only that but earlier today, there were a couple of jokers from New > Zealand trying to convince people "they" were the first to fly powered > aircraft... Nah. We never claimed it was us guys - the dude who did it died years ago. And he wasn't the first - just one of the one's who did it before the Dayton guys. But the Dayton guys did it better (after the 1st few tries) , more consistently, far more often, had far more documentation of what they did, built good instrumentation and research equipment to support their efforts and achieved far greater commercial success. They deserve honouring. As do Pearse and the others. RM -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu

Isnt it obvious....it collects electrons in the band, and then discharges when it gets full....after you touch a grounded object. But...what happens if your isolated for the day....would it blow your arm off? oops..guess should have waited till April to post this {Quote hidden}>From: Jinx <TakeThisOuTjoecolquittEraseMEspam_OUTCLEAR.NET.NZ> >Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> >To: PICLISTEraseME.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: Re: [EE:] Cordless grounding strap...!!??? >Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:51:35 +1300 > > http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W > >Product Requirements >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > >Wrist > >On behalf of the wrist-less I'd like to poke my PC nose in and >call for a class-action suit > >Who's with me ? Show of hands ? > >============================================ > >Re whether a cgs will work > >Good collection of static electricity links > >http://www.amasci.com/emotor/statelec.html > >Under "Scams and health claims" > >esdsupport.esdsystems.com/qanda/question.asp?showsidebar=no&action=qu >estion&id=1035 > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList >EraseMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestmitvma.mit.edu _________________________________________________________________ Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

This is something like my Cordless Battery charger. I sell a free can of instant water (just add water) with every purchase. -- Lawrence Lile al smith <RemoveMEmicro_eng2EraseMEEraseMEHOTMAIL.COM> Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTspam_OUTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> 12/18/2003 07:44 AM Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list To: RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: Subject: Re: [EE:] Cordless grounding strap...!!??? Isnt it obvious....it collects electrons in the band, and then discharges when it gets full....after you touch a grounded object. But...what happens if your isolated for the day....would it blow your arm off? oops..guess should have waited till April to post this {Quote hidden}>From: Jinx <EraseMEjoecolquittspamspamBeGoneCLEAR.NET.NZ> >Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> >To: PICLISTSTOPspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: Re: [EE:] Cordless grounding strap...!!??? >Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2003 13:51:35 +1300 > > http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W > >Product Requirements >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > >Wrist > >On behalf of the wrist-less I'd like to poke my PC nose in and >call for a class-action suit > >Who's with me ? Show of hands ? > >============================================ > >Re whether a cgs will work > >Good collection of static electricity links > >http://www.amasci.com/emotor/statelec.html > >Under "Scams and health claims" > >esdsupport.esdsystems.com/qanda/question.asp?showsidebar=no&action=qu >estion&id=1035 > >-- >http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList >spamBeGonepiclist-unsubscribe-requestSTOPspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu _________________________________________________________________ Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home. http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

part 1 1527 bytes content-type:text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-542B7ED2; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed (unknown type 8bit not decoded) This ESD protection device is based on "Corona effect" It is NOT ACCEPTABLE as an effective ESD protection system on a production line for electronic equipment. Can be used by people inspecting the production floor or people transporting crates full of equipped PCB. In no way it should be used by people handling PCBs populated with semiconductor devices. This was quite popular some years ago and we had to spend much time and persuasion to get these completely banned from production floors. Even "strap devices" can fail and are often not used the correct way, so just think about these. ESD is a major issue and is getting worse daily since semiconductor technologies bring design rules in the range of 90 nm and shrinking all the time. It does not take much to "blast" these things. At 23:00 17/12/03, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=CT-511W > >I can't fathom how this might work. It doesn't take batteries, and so >what good is wearing a metal object on an elastic band going to do >against static? I wear a watch with a metal back and band, does it >perform better than this? > >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.551 / Virus Database: 343 - Release Date: 11/12/03 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. part 2 300 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-avg=cert; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-542B7ED2 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.551 / Virus Database: 343 - Release Date: 11/12/03 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

l.lile wrote: > This is something like my Cordless Battery charger. I sell a free can of > instant water (just add water) with every purchase. > :^) :^) ... all this chat reminds me of a very "novel" high-tech "professional" audio component that I saw advertised a couple of years ago... it was an basically a piece of WOOD (exotic/nicely polished) that you were supposed to place on top of your speaker box to improve the quality of the sound (!) Yup, you'd probably want to polish these with that snake oil, no doubt!!!! Jim > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.

Well, the product is back up, but with a note: * Note: * Use of this product will not provide total static protection. It will provide * limited static protection to a mobile static problem. It should not be * considered as a replacement for the best method of static protection, * the use of grounded mats and corded wrist straps. I like the part about "limited static protection to a mobile static problem" My static is very mobile, it moves every chance it gets. Limited is right too - the corona effect could easily be considered 'limited'. "Should not be considered as a replacement for ... corded wrist straps" should be in bold. Ah well. It's better than nothing. Means they probably won't stock the item again once it sells out... if it sells out... -Adam M. Adam Davis wrote: {Quote hidden}> Robert Ussery wrote: > >> Check it out, folks! >> www.esdjournal.com/techpapr/sfowler/wireless.htm >> A good review and dissection of wireless wrist strap technology... >> >> >> > That's great. Here's the reply I got from computergeeks, and the email > I sent to them: > ---------------------------------------- > > Thank you for this email - we will be pulling this item down till we can > confirm or deny the issue. > > Thank you again for bringing to our attention > > The Geeks > > {Original Message removed}