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'[EE:] Aircraft laptop Power connections'
2004\07\14@121957 by Alan B. Pearce

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Does anyone know what the voltage and pin connections are on the power
connections available on aircraft for plugging a laptop in?

Just received a cable from Lind purporting to be for this purpose, and the
plug is about 1/2" diameter, with two fat pins, which apparently supply the
power, and two thin pins which are jumpered, apparently to turn on the
socket once the plug is inserted. There are a number of other fine pin
positions as well, but these are unpopulated.

Appreciate any info around, before I start making planes drop out of the sky
while I'm on them :))

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2004\07\14@153642 by Mike Hord

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Alan-

I wish I had better news for you, but I've been looking for info on that
thing
for two years and have yet to find much.  In fact, IIRC there was a thread
covering this within the last year, and very little good came of it.

I'd like to generalize this:  what's the best method for finding a connector
if
you know what you want, but you don't know what it's called?

Mike H.

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2004\07\14@161956 by Dave Schmidt

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Post a picture and hope someone has seen it or knows the mfgr.


> you know what you want, but you don't know what it's called?

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2004\07\14@163142 by Marcel Duchamp

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At 01:20 PM 7/14/04, you wrote:
>Post a picture and hope someone has seen it or knows the mfgr.
>
>
>>you know what you want, but you don't know what it's called?


About halfway down this page:
http://www.dcacpowerinverter.com/

is a blurb on a device (with a photo) described as:

Laptop airplane adapter
This will allow you to use your laptop from an
airplane's power connector.

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2004\07\14@164953 by Bob Axtell

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Can't you ask the airline how to use the jack...?

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Mike Hord wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2004\07\14@171037 by Dave Schmidt

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Tried looking up http://www.primextech.com and came up unresolvable.
Have you tried looking it up in the patent library?

Marcel Duchamp wrote:

> About halfway down this page:
> http://www.dcacpowerinverter.com/

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2004\07\14@180243 by David Challis

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They are called PowerExtender connectors for the EmPower System, developed
by Primex aerospace, formally Olin aerospace. http://www.primextech.com

Their website isn't loading...The DNS won't resolve it.  Probably because
General Dynamics bought them a while back.

PowerExtender is 12-16 volts.  Most adapters I've seen are 18 watts.


Dave Challis


{Original Message removed}

2004\07\14@210849 by Russell McMahon

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> Does anyone know what the voltage and pin connections are on the power
> connections available on aircraft for plugging a laptop in?

On the aircraft that I saw laptop power mentioned you had to have an
approved power supply - available at excessive cost at airports.
Or you could take your laptop to the toilet where (strangely) there's
sometimes power. And risk making the plane drop out of the sky. I suspect
such usage may be very severely frowned on.


       RM

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2004\07\14@220157 by hilip Stortz

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that is alarming, i can imagine the number of attacks that could be
launched through such a connection.  massive noise or voltage spikes
being the most obvious.  somehow i doubt this bus is isolated from the
rest of the aircraft's power (not like a modems phone connection is from
the pc, which lightning still gets through), and that alone makes me
uncomfortable given the many possible accidental failure modes, even if
the socket is supposedly smart, when it's working properly (any one
paying attention knows the sorry state of commercial aircraft
maintenance, and that it is often seen as a good place to cut cost).

lets not forget that an oxygen generator may be good hooked up to a drop
down mask (personally i don't think they are good for anything other
than starting fires, but that's my opinion and i'm not paying for
cylinders) and tragic in a baggage compartment.  i.e., something may
have some use when all is well and as it should be, but when it's not it
may likely bite you squarely where the sun rarely shines.  geez, like
having to plead with people to turn them off during take off and landing
when things are already interesting but letting laptops buzz along the
rest of the time wasn't bad enough.  then again, if at all possible i
will never, never fly again unless i can see the pilot and preferably
talk to them before the flight, i.e. not on a commercial jet where
passengers are treated only slightly better than cattle once they manage
to get on.  does anybody sleep any more? ever?

"Alan B. Pearce" wrote:
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2004\07\14@223608 by Jinx

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> that is alarming, i can imagine the number of attacks that could
> be launched through such a connection.  massive noise or voltage
> spikes being the most obvious.  somehow i doubt this bus is
> isolated from the rest of the aircraft's power (not like a modems

One of a series of programs about the NTSB that looked at the
cause of individual air crashes was about a packed plane to Paris
that went down in flames after leaving NY a few years ago. For
some length of time the cockpit crew reported that the cockpit had
filled with smoke from an unknown cause and that systems were
failing. Eventually radio ontact was lost after the crew passed out
from smoke inhalation and the next sighting of the plane was a
fireball off the coast. It was determined that the power supply to
passengers' screens (a new feature) was not fused and connected
to the plane's vital wiring. A fault caused a fire that spread undetected
next to the plane's outer skin until the inevitable happened. After that
incident the NTSB required, and reportedly got, a wiring overhaul,
which included separating convenience wiring from functional

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2004\07\14@224641 by Jake Anderson

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yet you get in a car?

Honestly if sombody wants to destroy a plane your badly enough on odds are
they will.

But by the same token look at the odds of anything happening.
50k americans die on the roads each year, about the same number due to guns.
theres probbly about that many due to workplace accidents. and saying the
same
number again for accidents around the home probbly isnt unwarranted.

I think those are probbly the major causes of unnatural death to your
average healthy person.

how many americans have currently died due to terrorist action over the last
10 years? 3000?
say 4000 if you include all the other stuff thats happened.
so you wind up with around 0.002% of unnatural deaths are due to terrorism.

For Air Travel
The 2001 death toll of 1118 was below the 1971-2000 average death toll of
1451 casualties
The 2001 death toll of 1118 was below the 1991-2000 average death toll of
1298 casualties
(note this includes the sept 11 data)

so go from that.
In the entire world around 1000 people died in aircraft, in america *alone*
50 000 people
died in their cars.

interesting fact
National Safety Council data reveal that in the last half of the 1990s
Americans were, mile for mile, 37 times more likely to die in a vehicle
crash than on a commercial flight

the big picture
the death rate in america is 8.34 per 1000 according to the CIA world fact
book
population of 293,027,571
so each year 2.44384994214 million people die.
the worst year to date for america had 3000 deaths or so due to terrorism
answer is roughly 0.1%

whats it all mean?
odds are *you wont, will not be next*
odds are your at least 96% more likley to die staying at home.

my personal feelings.
Dont let the bastards win.
Get on planes, watch movies, use the post, be "alert not alarmed", "buy war
bonds"
personally i think america is letting the terrorists win, they are being
walked all over by them. how much money is being spent on this now? how much
inconvinence is being caused? how many liberties removed in the name of
freedom? what price can you put on the social problems that its all causing?

personally its my feeling that the biggest thing america could have done was
nothing at all.
sure go after the people who did it, no argument there. But with 100 special
forces and covert ops people rather than moving to a complete war footing
and spending billions of $ on things that really have a minimal return in
terms of saftey or lifestyle.

just came aross an interesting read (by the look of things, i havent
actually read it yet)
http://www.davidmyers.org/fears/
Do We Fear the Right Things?

seems to say all the things i just said only much better



> {Original Message removed}

2004\07\14@230549 by David VanHorn

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At 02:35 PM 7/15/2004 +1200, Jinx wrote:

>> that is alarming, i can imagine the number of attacks that could
>> be launched through such a connection.  massive noise or voltage
>> spikes being the most obvious.  somehow i doubt this bus is
>> isolated from the rest of the aircraft's power (not like a modems
>
>One of a series of programs about the NTSB that looked at the
>cause of individual air crashes was about a packed plane to Paris
>that went down in flames after leaving NY a few years ago.

Was that TWA-800?  That's not the cause I remembered for that one.
I had a seat on that flight, along with another engineer, the marketing guy, and our CEO, but we had to push the trip back a week.. Sometimes being late is an advantage.

Remember the early worm gets eaten!

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2004\07\14@232704 by Jinx

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> Was that TWA-800?  That's not the cause I remembered for that one

No, Swissair 111 (Geneva was destination, not Paris, my mistake)

http://www.geocities.com/Eureka/Concourse/7349/wirez.html

I thought TWA-800 was a problem with wiring and fumes in an empty
fuel tank ?

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2004\07\15@002237 by Jake Anderson

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still you have to hand it to swissair for the changes they implemented after
that.
video cameras in innaccessable parts of the aircraft, bucketloads of things.
(course then they went bankrupt)

> {Original Message removed}

2004\07\15@050321 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>About halfway down this page:
>http://www.dcacpowerinverter.com/
>
>is a blurb on a device (with a photo) described as:
>
>Laptop airplane adapter
>This will allow you to use your laptop from an
>airplane's power connector.

That is pretty well identical to the one I have, and it is the large
connector I am enquiring about. The other connector is a triaxial one
otherwise very similar to the normal miniature connectors used for power
from wall warts.

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2004\07\15@094606 by Mike Hord

picon face
>On the aircraft that I saw laptop power mentioned you had to have an
>approved power supply - available at excessive cost at airports.
>Or you could take your laptop to the toilet where (strangely) there's
>sometimes power. And risk making the plane drop out of the sky. I suspect
>such usage may be very severely frowned on.

I always assumed that the outlet in the lavatory was for curling irons,
electric
shavers, back massagers and electric dog polishers more than anything else,
and I suspect many of those things would produce MORE noise than a laptop.

BTW, when was the last time anyone remembers a manufacturer actually
*calling* one a "laptop"?  Hasn't it been "notebook" for some years now, and
yet I NEVER hear that term used by anyone not in marketing...

Mike H.

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2004\07\15@103455 by Richard E. Teague

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>>About halfway down this page:
>>http://www.dcacpowerinverter.com/
>>
>>is a blurb on a device (with a photo) described as:
>>
>That is pretty well identical to the one I have, and it is the large
>connector I am enquiring about. The other connector is a triaxial one
>otherwise very similar to the normal miniature connectors used for
power
>from wall warts.

If you look right below the picture of the device, there is a "more
details"
Button. It gives a list of the airlines that support this device.
It also indicates that it supplies 12 Vdc and must be used with an
Inverter to power laptop (unless the laptop uses 12 V)

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2004\07\15@110116 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>If you look right below the picture of the device, there
>is a "more details" Button. It gives a list of the airlines
>that support this device.

That list will be handy to have. I hadn't picked up on the "more info".

>It also indicates that it supplies 12 Vdc and must be used
>with an Inverter to power laptop (unless the laptop uses 12 V)

Right, that is the info I needed, and the picture also shows the way that
they plug in (when you go to the second "more info"). I had assumed that the
one I have went round the other way with the large connector going to the
aircraft (it will not take a cigarette lighter plug, even though that is the
impression I had from the site I bought from), with the small plug going
into the convertor. Now I can modify the lead I bought to fit the convertor
I have. Now all I need is polarity :)) Guess a quick bridge rectifier will
come in handy here.

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2004\07\15@141354 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
>I'd like to generalize this:  what's the best method for finding a
>connector if you know what you want, but you don't know what it's called?

By walking into a shop and buying one lacking other alternatives. In this
case, a travel accessories shop will likely have one. Duty free shops
certainly have them (psu with cable for aircraft power). I am fairly sure
that airline people would be positively panicky wrt your plugging in your
homemade whatever into their aircraft and the fact you can't buy them is
probably a good thing. I don't know what safety certifications those psu's
carry, but that would be a good start for a search.

Peter

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2004\07\15@162256 by Andrew Warren

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Mike Hord <RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu> wrote:

> I'd like to generalize this:  what's the best method for finding a
> connector if you know what you want, but you don't know what it's
> called?

   Just ask here on the piclist; SOMEONE will know.

   The aircraft power-adapter system's trade name is EmPower; the
   connector used is the Hypertronics ARINC 628.  The conector
   datasheet, including pinout, is here:

       http://www.hypertronics.com/ARINC%20628.pdf

   -Andy

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2004\07\16@012045 by M. Adam Davis

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Mike Hord wrote:

>
> BTW, when was the last time anyone remembers a manufacturer actually
> *calling* one a "laptop"?  Hasn't it been "notebook" for some years
> now, and
> yet I NEVER hear that term used by anyone not in marketing...
>
They stopped about the time people started getting burns on their legs
from the 'laptop'.  Now it's simply a notebook computer with no specific
instructions on where to situate it for use, except perhaps "a stable
surface".

-Adam

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2004\07\16@044904 by Alan B. Pearce

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>    Just ask here on the piclist; SOMEONE will know.

That is for sure. that is why I asked here first :))))))

>    The aircraft power-adapter system's trade name is EmPower;
>    the connector used is the Hypertronics ARINC 628.  The
>    conector datasheet, including pinout, is here:

Great, that tells me exactly what I need for the last bit of the puzzle.
Much appreciated, thanks Andrew.

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2004\07\16@215143 by Howard Winter

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Mike,

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 08:45:34 -0500, Mike Hord wrote:

> BTW, when was the last time anyone remembers a manufacturer actually
> *calling* one a "laptop"?  Hasn't it been "notebook" for some years now, and
> yet I NEVER hear that term used by anyone not in marketing...

That's an American thing - here in Britain they are still called Laptops.  If you asked for a notebook here,
you'd get a pad of paper!  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England

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2004\07\16@215351 by Howard Winter

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Jinx,

On Thu, 15 Jul 2004 15:27:19 +1200, Jinx wrote:

> I thought TWA-800 was a problem with wiring and fumes
in an empty fuel tank ?

That's right - the centre tank was empty (but full of
fuel vapour, of course) and somewhere in a wiring
harness a short occurred which caused a spark inside the
tank.  When the fuel-vapour/air mixture got to the right
proportions, it exploded.

Personally, I'm surprised a transatlantic flight would
start with a tank empty!

Cheers,

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2004\07\16@220021 by John J. McDonough

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Howard Winter" <RemoveMEHDRWTakeThisOuTspamspamH2ORG.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: [EE:] Aircraft laptop Power connections


> That's an American thing - here in Britain they are still called Laptops.
If you asked for a notebook here,
> you'd get a pad of paper!  :-)

Paper?  Isn't that what the Egyptians used to use?  Seems like they took
berry juice and marked on it with a pointy feather or something like that.
Is your island so isolated they still do that?

--McD

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2004\07\16@232542 by M. Adam Davis

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Howard Winter wrote:

>Personally, I'm surprised a transatlantic flight would
>start with a tank empty!
>
>
>
If you aren't going to consume the fuel during the flight, then simply
carrying it around causes you to consume more than you need to.  My
understanding is that putting the correct amount of fuel in a plane for
a flight is a fairly complex activity - the weight of the plane with the
varying number of passengers, flight path, expected weather, etc.

-Adam

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2004\07\17@034427 by Peter L. Peres

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>> BTW, when was the last time anyone remembers a manufacturer actually
>> *calling* one a "laptop"?  Hasn't it been "notebook" for some years
>> now,
>> and yet I NEVER hear that term used by anyone not in marketing...
>
>That's an American thing - here in Britain they are still called Laptops.
>If you asked for a notebook here,
>you'd get a pad of paper!  :-)

If I remember right, the man who fried his b**** with a laptop and made it
in the news (was on CNN even) some time ago was American, and he must have
sued there ;-)

Peter

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2004\07\24@072839 by Russell McMahon

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> Paper?  Isn't that what the Egyptians used to use?  Seems like they took
> berry juice and marked on it with a pointy feather or something like that.
> Is your island so isolated they still do that?

Mine is. If you can draw rough "what if" circuits using electronic means
faster than I can draw them with pen and paper I'd be most interested in
seeing the technology :-). (Pen and paper doesn't simulate circuit operation
very well without 20 or 30 years of experience :-( )

Egyptians used Papyrus which was made from beaten reed stems. Those who
still think that such technology is superior to pen and paper are probably
in DeNile.

       RM

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2004\07\29@064940 by hilip Stortz

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absolutely!  the whole anti terrorism thing is completely out of hand,
and doing far more harm than the terrorist did here, in fact i'd say
we've been aiding the terrorist in their goals.  on the other hand, if
you make it easy to bring down planes, nuts all over will do it.
frankly, terrorism is the best thing that could have happened to gw....
the problem is that most people just aren't good at math, particularly
with large and small numbers, and most people don't know how to think
rationally about emotional issues, yet a rational response is needed.
doing "whatever it takes" is always the wrong answer, it implies a
complete solution is possible and worth devoting all your resources to,
thus starving all other goals of resources and giving up everything
else.  it's silly, it's political manipulation, and it's sad all around.

Jake Anderson wrote:
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2004\07\29@084116 by Russell McMahon

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Guys:

If you are going to hijack threads (term used advisedly here :-) ) then
please also

1.    Change to OT asap
2.    Change subject line so others can choose whether to have to
participate.

The subject may survive awhile on OT but it will surely be cast out most
promptly with weeping and wailing under EE.

else one's days may be not long on the face of the land, depending on
James's current workload and humour.

And, yes, also guilty myself on & off.

______________

Subject: Re: [PICLIST] [EE:] Aircraft laptop Power connections   NOT!
> absolutely!  the whole anti terrorism thing is completely out of hand,
> and doing far ...

AND the prior

> > personally i think america is letting the terrorists ...

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