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'[Bulk] Re: [OT] KDE 4.2 Desktop'
2009\04\05@225527 by Isaac Marino Bavaresco

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solarwind escreveu:
{Quote hidden}

How would you convince the Gnome developers to give up?

I agree, there are too many projects with the same goal, but I think
just one is not good also.

Also too many derivatives of derivatives, and so on. It would be better
if developers leave their pride and team together instead of each one
spawning his own derivative of some software.

Regards,

Isaac

__________________________________________________
Faça ligações para outros computadores com o novo Yahoo! Messenger
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2009\04\05@231555 by solarwind

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On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Isaac Marino Bavaresco
<.....isaacbavarescoKILLspamspam@spam@yahoo.com.br> wrote:
> solarwind escreveu:
> How would you convince the Gnome developers to give up?

Good point, but Gnome and KDE are too different to merge.

> I agree, there are too many projects with the same goal, but I think
> just one is not good also.
>
> Also too many derivatives of derivatives, and so on. It would be better
> if developers leave their pride and team together instead of each one
> spawning his own derivative of some software.

Word.

2009\04\06@013425 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 11:09 AM, solarwind <x.solarwind.xspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Isaac Marino Bavaresco
>> How would you convince the Gnome developers to give up?
>
> Good point, but Gnome and KDE are too different to merge.

By the same reason, XFCE and LXDE developers will not give
up, so does other desktop environment developers.

And then there are more issues due to different philosophies
or ideologies, you can not convince BSD developers to give
up BSDs and embrace Linux.

In the end, it is not possible to consolidated the open
source world into a few companies or projects. And I
believe it is a good thing.

Evolution takes time. So it takes time for projects to get
matured, some will die, some will been merged, some
will be successful. In the end, the users got the benefits
of better product (either from the open source projects
or the commercial product).

Regards,
Xiaofan

2009\04\06@015342 by solarwind

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On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 1:34 AM, Xiaofan Chen <.....xiaofancKILLspamspam.....gmail.com> wrote:
> Evolution takes time. So it takes time for projects to get
> matured, some will die, some will been merged, some
> will be successful. In the end, the users got the benefits
> of better product (either from the open source projects
> or the commercial product).

I believe the absolute best route is to pour some money into Linux and
open source. It will take a lot to build apps that can compete with
Office 2007 and things like that.

2009\04\06@125019 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 6:53 AM, solarwind <EraseMEx.solarwind.xspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:

> I believe the absolute best route is to pour some money into Linux and
> open source. It will take a lot to build apps that can compete with
> Office 2007 and things like that.
>

This is already done, loads of companies behind Linux (IBM, HP, Sun for
example - Sun owns OpenOffice, and the commercial version is called
StarOffice if I remember well). It just happened to see an HP netbook this
weekend and it works really great, pre installed Linux on it of course.

The problem is that there are still many hw manufacturers abandon Linux
platform in general.

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\04\06@140948 by Nate Duehr

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That's the idealistic view, but it leaves out...

"MOST will languish forever in mediocrity.  Never that great, but never all
that bad either."

:-)

Nate

-----Original Message-----
From: piclist-bouncesspamspam_OUTmit.edu [@spam@piclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu] On Behalf Of
Xiaofan Chen
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:34 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [OT] KDE 4.2 Desktop

Evolution takes time. So it takes time for projects to get
matured, some will die, some will been merged, some
will be successful. In the end, the users got the benefits
of better product (either from the open source projects
or the commercial product).

2009\04\06@142216 by Nate Duehr

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Money goes into Linux by the bucketload... but not to the Linux DESKTOP.
When even the CEO of RedHat, arguably the best pure Linux-based BUSINESS
play says the desktop is dead (meaning, "I'm not spending money or developer
time on it"), you can almost be assured that no one else is either.

The vast majority of people with rights to check into the Linux KERNEL tree,
however... are paid developers.  People like to say Linux is altruistic and
wonderful, but the reality is that while many of these people are "true
believers" in open-source, they're also getting paid by their employers some
pretty big money to be so.

The "mega-example" is Ubuntu.  It simply wouldn't exist without the hard
cash that Shuttleworth pours into it like water.  They couldn't have
"stolen" (I don't like that term) many Debian developers to work on it, if
there weren't paychecks involved in that move.

Everyone's pragmatic to their own needs at some point.  I can sit in my
basement and write code (since I'm not a coder for a living) for
something/someone who will reciprocate with something I need, or I can sit
in my basement and write code for some need I already have for free, but
rarely is "usability" the goal, unless someone's paying me to make it so --
or I'm planning on showing off that code to the outside world away from my
basement for some other need to be filled... finding a job by showing
competence, the accolades of my peers, etc.

We've ALL written crap code that got OUR work done, that never got outside
the local hard disk.  It did what we needed, and we knew its quirks.  Once
you share that code with someone else, it has to be cleaner, commented,
properly documented, and becomes a "much bigger" project, and then the
natural laws of "is it worth it?" come into play because of the higher
effect it now has on opportunity costs.  "I could work on publishing that
drek, or I could get something else done."

Then someone steps in and says, "I'll share my code that does X with you, if
you'll share your code that does Y."  Or, more often, someone says, "I'll
pay you money for your code that does Y to be included in [insert commercial
software vendor name here, or open-source project... doesn't matter]."

At that point, it's a question of conscience.  If you are of the religion
that releasing to the world makes the world a better place, go for it.  But
we fool ourselves into thinking that what we've written is a lot better
quality than it really is, and it's been proven through behaviorial
economics in the last decade that tying the word "Free!" to anything (Free
as in beer, that is) automatically gives that "product" a leg up in almost
every human's head that looks at it.  We just LOVE "Free!"... we can't get
enough of it.  Even when it's not the best choice.

The latest studies in this (not done about software, done with real products
and people in controlled tests) in the numerous popular books in the
exploding area of behavioral economics are truly fascinating.  There is a
LARGE percentage of the population out there who, as I call it... "Can't do
the math", and will ALWAYS go for the "FREE!" product over the one that
costs anything.  Even if VERY little.

But on the opposite side, a coder given the chance to get paid to code, vs.
not get paid, almost invariably takes "Door #1".  The Linux kernel and many
large pieces of application code (Apache, MySQL, etc.) are great examples.
People have to eat.

Nate

-----Original Message-----
From: KILLspampiclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesTakeThisOuTspammit.edu] On Behalf Of
solarwind
Sent: Sunday, April 05, 2009 11:53 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [OT] KDE 4.2 Desktop

I believe the absolute best route is to pour some money into Linux and
open source. It will take a lot to build apps that can compete with
Office 2007 and things like that.

2009\04\06@144739 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Nate Duehr <spamBeGonenatespamBeGonespamnatetech.com> wrote:

> Money goes into Linux by the bucketload... but not to the Linux DESKTOP.
> When even the CEO of RedHat, arguably the best pure Linux-based BUSINESS
> play says the desktop is dead (meaning, "I'm not spending money or
> developer
> time on it"), you can almost be assured that no one else is either.
>

However I am quite happy with Ubuntu - a single installation lasts much
longer than Vista ever did to me. I did not say there are no problems, yes
it does! But in my personal experience much less than with Vista. And most
of the problems are coming from either driver supporting or lack of user
applications on it. Like the Dell Printer support, which is a big no. And as
a software example MPLAB. For these I have the Sun VirtualBox but that's not
a solution, that is only avoiding the problem.

I would say those netbooks with linux preinstalled helps a lot to Linux as
more and more people can get in touch with the OS and when the critical mass
reached software companies start focusing on Linux - maybe I am just too
optimistic?

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\04\06@151023 by Nate Duehr

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I don't know, actually I think you hit the nail on the head with your
virtualization comment... an OS needs an app that ONLY works on that OS to
make it a "must have" for anyone.  Virtualization has almost reached (I say
almost...) the point where it simply doesn't matter what OS you run as the
host OS... you'll end up running them all eventually for something... the
one OS that might not be true of for the "average" consumer is Linux... it
doesn't really "do" anything that the other OS's don't do AWFULLY
inexpensively...

When a large percentage of the population sees something useful, or even
just "ooh, shiny" that Linux does that they THINK they need, they'll be
there.  It's never done that on the desktop.  It DEFINITELY did it in the
server space... by being the free/low cost option for running things that
were traditionally the realm of the commercial Unix flavors.

Nate

-----Original Message-----
From: TakeThisOuTpiclist-bouncesEraseMEspamspam_OUTmit.edu [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu] On Behalf Of
Tamas Rudnai
Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 12:48 PM
To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
Subject: Re: [Bulk] Re: [OT] KDE 4.2 Desktop

I would say those netbooks with linux preinstalled helps a lot to Linux as
more and more people can get in touch with the OS and when the critical mass
reached software companies start focusing on Linux - maybe I am just too
optimistic?


2009\04\06@154951 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 8:08 PM, Nate Duehr <nateEraseMEspam.....natetech.com> wrote:

> When a large percentage of the population sees something useful, or even
> just "ooh, shiny" that Linux does that they THINK they need, they'll be
> there.  It's never done that on the desktop.  It DEFINITELY did it in the
> server space... by being the free/low cost option for running things that
> were traditionally the realm of the commercial Unix flavors.
>

That's true, people are buying cars as how do the look like or how does it
feel getting out of it in front of your buddies - not because they are
efficient in fuel or because it will never been broken down or anything like
that.  These things are getting important after the shiny surface.

The funny thing is that Linux made a very good job on the user interface in
the last couple of years. Every time when I show how do I work to someone,
they are amazed and say: Hey, you can do the same as with Mac, and hey, you
can do the same as with Vista too. Yes I can and there are lot more that
neither of them can do - for example less targeted for the hackers to look
for vulnerabilities and malware stuff as well. Also that backup is so easy
to do in case they do exploit my computer and gain root access to it. Also
that now I use crypto filesystem for both my laptop and my backup to make
them really hard to open my personal data if they steal my computer again. I
know it is possible with windows using truecrypt, I just found it much
easier in Linux as I just have to plug my external hd in and it asks the
password and that's it.

Anyway, I am not saying Linux is better desktop than X or Z, but I highly
doubt if the OS itself with the windowing system can be pronounced as
non-desktop and server-only operating system - I think the boss of RedHat
just said what he said because desktop users are using Ubuntu nowadays
instead.

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\04\06@160937 by Nate Duehr

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Agreed on the OS debate in general terms.  But I think the RedHat CEO said
it because he can't SELL Linux on the desktop to corporate customers... they
have no need for it, and may not ever...

He has to focus on what makes his company money, and it wasn't the desktop.
It was the servers.

*I* say the desktop doesn't make money because Linux isn't offering business
anything they don't already have and budget for.  They look at the "Free!"
price tag with a (properly) jaundiced eye... knowing that nothing is truly
"Free!" in business.  There's support costs, re-training, etc...

Linux on the desktop has always been a copy-cat OS.  Sure, 3D spinning cubes
rotating to show different virtual desktops and things is "nifty", but not a
"must have" for business.  The qualities in a desktop interface that
business needed were pretty much covered with the very first release of Mac
OS... the mouse was a giant leap forward in user interface (thanks to Xerox
PARC, where Apple got the idea) at the same time.  

Linux comes up with something that causes the desktop to make people (and
yes, I mean the word "make", not "help") more productive at the jobs they do
in "normal" business, it'd take over until the other guys could copy-cat it.
Linux's "openness" is a downfall there... a copy would be forthcoming VERY
quickly, and the commercial guys would be able to say, "we added that
feature, but you won't have to retrain everyone else on that other Linux
*stuff*".

Linux on the desktop is pretty much stuck in a weird world of nifty things
and uselessness, likely forever.

Nate

{Original Message removed}

2009\04\06@162058 by Herbert Graf

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On Mon, 2009-04-06 at 20:49 +0100, Tamas Rudnai wrote:
> The funny thing is that Linux made a very good job on the user
> interface in
> the last couple of years. Every time when I show how do I work to someone,
> they are amazed and say: Hey, you can do the same as with Mac, and hey, you
> can do the same as with Vista too. Yes I can and there are lot more that
> neither of them can do - for example less targeted for the hackers to look
> for vulnerabilities and malware stuff as well. Also that backup is so easy
> to do in case they do exploit my computer and gain root access to it. Also
> that now I use crypto filesystem for both my laptop and my backup to make
> them really hard to open my personal data if they steal my computer again. I
> know it is possible with windows using truecrypt, I just found it much
> easier in Linux as I just have to plug my external hd in and it asks the
> password and that's it.

I'm curious, how did you set that up? I use truecypt on Linux and it's
always a little annoying how not automatic it is?

Thanks, TTYL

2009\04\06@175118 by Tamas Rudnai

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On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:20 PM, Herbert Graf <EraseMEmailinglist4spamfarcite.net>wrote:

> I'm curious, how did you set that up? I use truecypt on Linux and it's
> always a little annoying how not automatic it is?
>

I use LUKS/dm-crypt  -- basically the entire filesystem is formatted as
dm-crypt and when I plug it in LUKS recognises and mounts via device mapper
(after authenticated of course).

Pretty much  went through on this documentation:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EncryptedFilesystems

I also installed truecrypt but because I wanted to encrypt my USB stick and
wanted to be compatible with Windows systems. But then I never used - maybe
will do so (as just realizsed those are still unsafe :-) )

Oh, and I use 8.10 Interpid where it seems everything like these are better
supported.

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\04\06@181943 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Nate Duehr <RemoveMEnateEraseMEspamEraseMEnatetech.com> wrote:

> Linux on the desktop has always been a copy-cat OS.  Sure, 3D spinning
> cubes
> rotating to show different virtual desktops and things is "nifty", but not
> a
> "must have" for business.  The qualities in a desktop interface that
> business needed were pretty much covered with the very first release of Mac
> OS... the mouse was a giant leap forward in user interface (thanks to Xerox
> PARC, where Apple got the idea) at the same time.
>

Sure. Personally I am using compiz only because of the followings:

1. It has a feature like Mac's Expose - all windows can be zoomed out in a
way that all of the fits in one screen next to each other. So I can see if a
task finished in a background, or what my friend just said on the IM,
without loosing fhe focus - when I release the button everything goes back
to normal.

2. It can be done the same with desktops (don't knwo how is that called in
Mac, so all the virtual desktops shrank and shown next to ecah other and I
can grab a window and place it on the other desktop etc)

3. Don't even know if Windows has a virtual deksktop?

4. Zoom - I just love it, sometimes my eyes too tyred so I press a button
and the window or the desktop zoomed in.

5. Sometimes for viewing crapy web sites and even less times for photo
editing it is ood to have the colour inverter so can see things easier than
in normal view

6. For task switching I have preview so I have a better guess if I am
switching to the appropriate application/window

7. And I use dual screen with different content - typical use is a datasheet
on the laptop screen while the MPLAB is on the external. But i guess that's
pretty much both Windows and MacOS knows as well.

That's all, all the other stuff is basically just fancy junk I agree. I also
agree, that as a workwise I could do pretty much the same with the good old
Apple IIe - even had a mouse for that :-)

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\04\06@194649 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 2:47 AM, Tamas Rudnai <RemoveMEtamas.rudnaispam_OUTspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:
> I would say those netbooks with linux preinstalled helps a lot to Linux as
> more and more people can get in touch with the OS and when the critical mass
> reached software companies start focusing on Linux - maybe I am just too
> optimistic?

Microsoft claims that it has reclaim the Netbook market (mostly using XP).
http://www.informationweek.com/news/windows/operatingsystems/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=216402927&subSection=News

The percentage may be arguable, but Microsoft really dominates the
Netbook market now. Initially many comes with Linux, but now if
I go to the shops, only one or two old models come with Linux, all
the others come with XP Home.

The new Arm based netbook may change that. Maybe Linux
can beat Windows CE comfortably in that front.

Xiaofan

2009\04\07@011521 by Xiaofan Chen

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On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 6:19 AM, Tamas Rudnai <RemoveMEtamas.rudnaiTakeThisOuTspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 9:09 PM, Nate Duehr <EraseMEnatespamspamspamBeGonenatetech.com> wrote:

> Sure. Personally I am using compiz only because of the followings:

I do not use compiz since it does not work well with the Nvidia
close-source driver. And I have to use the Nvidia driver to get the full
screen  resolution. The open source driver does not work with the
NForce 620i/7050 integrated chipset.

Last time it did not work well with my previous desktop either
(ATI9800SE AGP).

> 3. Don't even know if Windows has a virtual deksktop?
This one works for XP (from Microsoft Powertoy for XP)
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/Downloads/powertoys/Xppowertoys.mspx

This one works for Vista and XP
http://www.codeplex.com/vdm

Xiaofan

2009\04\07@013604 by solarwind

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On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Xiaofan Chen <RemoveMExiaofancKILLspamspamgmail.com> wrote:
> I do not use compiz since it does not work well with the Nvidia
> close-source driver. And I have to use the Nvidia driver to get the full
> screen  resolution. The open source driver does not work with the
> NForce 620i/7050 integrated chipset.
>
> Last time it did not work well with my previous desktop either
> (ATI9800SE AGP).


http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115916

It works now. I think the several tens of thousands+ thread views
nudged the devs to start developing their drivers. They've been on a
driver-releasing rampage ever since :)


--
solarwind

2009\04\07@022531 by William \Chops\ Westfield

face picon face

On Apr 6, 2009, at 1:09 PM, Nate Duehr wrote:

> Linux on the desktop has always been a copy-cat OS.

No it hasn't.  Or not of windows/macos, anyway.  The original linux/
freebsd desktops were straight X-windows with old unix/X style window  
managers with minimal commonality between applications ("Motif" was  
one attempt at a GUI standard.)  And mostly based on  text Xterm  
windows.  Some of us still use that stuff.  And linux does pretty ok  
in an environment where the primary use of a desktop is to access the  
servers...

But Linux has only made PROGRESS in getting to the common persons  
desktop since they started being a copy-cat of the more popular  
commercial desktops.  (Actually, you can go a lot further - linux has  
only made that progress as it has become a general copycat of the  
look, feel, and feature-set of the common commercial GUI OSes.)

BillW

2009\04\07@052436 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Xiaofan Chen <xiaofancSTOPspamspamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:

> I do not use compiz since it does not work well with the Nvidia
> close-source driver. And I have to use the Nvidia driver to get the full
> screen  resolution. The open source driver does not work with the
> NForce 620i/7050 integrated chipset.
>

Weird - I have an nVidia 8500 GT on my laptop and as far as I concern using
the propriety driver - will have a look at that.

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\04\07@053315 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Tamas Rudnai <spamBeGonetamas.rudnaiSTOPspamspamEraseMEgmail.com>wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 6:15 AM, Xiaofan Chen <KILLspamxiaofancspamBeGonespamgmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I do not use compiz since it does not work well with the Nvidia
>> close-source driver. And I have to use the Nvidia driver to get the full
>> screen  resolution. The open source driver does not work with the
>> NForce 620i/7050 integrated chipset.
>>
>
> Weird - I have an nVidia 8500 GT on my laptop and as far as I concern using
> the propriety driver - will have a look at that.


Sending too soon :-)

One thing is in my mind that when first I tried compiz I thought it does not
work for me either. Then found some description or screencast (can't
remember) that was talking about compiz and how to set it up. The major
thing is that it needs the compiz-config package to be installed, and then
from the Settings menu you can start this configurator where you can switch
on and off all of those features - because all of these are switched off by
default, or at least they were for me.

Tamas
--
http://www.mcuhobby.com

2009\04\07@101658 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 1:35 PM, solarwind <EraseMEx.solarwind.xspamEraseMEgmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 1:15 AM, Xiaofan Chen <@spam@xiaofanc@spam@spamspam_OUTgmail.com> wrote:
>> I do not use compiz since it does not work well with the Nvidia
>> close-source driver. And I have to use the Nvidia driver to get the full
>> screen  resolution. The open source driver does not work with the
>> NForce 620i/7050 integrated chipset.
>
> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115916
>
> It works now. I think the several tens of thousands+ thread views
> nudged the devs to start developing their drivers. They've been on a
> driver-releasing rampage ever since :)
>

No. I am using 180.29. Take note the NForce 620i/7050 integrated chipset
is different and you can say it is a crappy chipset, but it works for me for
Linux and Windows Vista. And I do not need compiz anyway. So I do not
really care. That being said, none of the BSDs and Solaris work for this
computer due to "disk not found" issue. So I can not test FreeBSD like
before. Anyway, I feel FreeBSD has a long way to go to catch Linux
(especially on the device driver side). So does Solaris (tried it once with
the live cd).

Xiaofan

2009\04\07@161139 by Nate Duehr

face
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Yeah, that was badly stated.  I stopped caring about the Linux desktop right
after Enlightenment came out the FIRST time.  It was interesting eye-candy,
but I could see where things were headed.  Give me a terminal and the
ability to pop up a GUI-based web-browser, and I was fine.  

Tried ratpoison for a while, that was fine... but then realized I was slowly
sliding toward either the Windows machine or the Mac for an SSH terminal
into the Linux servers, and then realized there was little/no value in
having a "real" Linux desktop machine... especially once Parallels and
VMWare came on the scene.

Nate

{Original Message removed}

2009\04\07@195923 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 1:35 PM, solarwind <spamBeGonex.solarwind.xspamKILLspamgmail.com> wrote:

> http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=115916
>
> It works now. I think the several tens of thousands+ thread views
> nudged the devs to start developing their drivers. They've been on a
> driver-releasing rampage ever since :)

I tried it under Fedora 10 KDE 4.2 and it did not work with the latest
Nvidia driver no matter what I tried. It just failed to start.

Under Ubuntu 8.10 + KDE 4.2 and it seems to work right out
of the box without using any tricks using the restricted driver
(177.82).

Xiaofan

2009\04\07@232942 by solarwind

picon face
On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Xiaofan Chen <.....xiaofancspam_OUTspamgmail.com> wrote:
> I tried it under Fedora 10 KDE 4.2 and it did not work with the latest
> Nvidia driver no matter what I tried. It just failed to start.
>
> Under Ubuntu 8.10 + KDE 4.2 and it seems to work right out
> of the box without using any tricks using the restricted driver
> (177.82).

Often, this is due to the weird internal configuration that the "big
distros" use. It interfere's with the way nVidia expects its driver to
be installed. Unfortunately, unlike windows, Linux has way too many
distributions and it's fair to expect that nVidia can't make their
driver work on every one. nVidia makes their driver work on the plain
and simple distros like slackware, arch linux, crux and so on because
they rely heavily on manual configuration. In those sort of distros,
you simply execute the binary installer when the X server is down and
it will install perfectly almost all the time. Reboot (or modprobe if
you're pro) and you'll be greeted with a friendly graphical interface.
Usually in the big distros, the automatic configuration tools load up
weird modules and what not that interfere with the drivers. I'm 100%
sure that if you dug around a bit, tried lsmod and blacklisted the
funny modules that are being loaded up, fiddled around with xorg.conf,
you would get your driver to work. But then that becomes the issue -
it's simply way too much work just to get a chipset/graphics driver
working.

We need a unified distro.

2009\04\08@004359 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 11:29 AM, solarwind <TakeThisOuTx.solarwind.x.....spamTakeThisOuTgmail.com> wrote:

> Often, this is due to the weird internal configuration that the "big
> distros" use. It interfere's with the way nVidia expects its driver to
> be installed. Unfortunately, unlike windows, Linux has way too many
> distributions and it's fair to expect that nVidia can't make their
> driver work on every one.

Fair.

> nVidia makes their driver work on the plain
> and simple distros like slackware, arch linux, crux and so on because
> they rely heavily on manual configuration.

I doubt. I believe they would test the main stream supported
version like Redhat and Novell Suse and then popular distros
like Ubuntu, Debian, Opensuse and Fedora.

> In those sort of distros,
> you simply execute the binary installer when the X server is down and
> it will install perfectly almost all the time.

In fact, I use the binary installed under Fedora 10 and that
is not working for Compiz stuff.

{Quote hidden}

I agree if I tried harder and I could get it to work. That is my
experiences. If others can make it work under Linux, through
Google and my own efforts, I can get it to work as well.
The thing is that sometimes I do not want to spend the efforts
on something I do not really care like the compiz stuff.

> We need a unified distro.
Your wish. That is not going to happen anytime soon.

Xiaofan

2009\04\08@005724 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 4:11 AM, Nate Duehr <TakeThisOuTnateKILLspamspamspamnatetech.com> wrote:
> Yeah, that was badly stated.  I stopped caring about the Linux desktop right
> after Enlightenment came out the FIRST time.  It was interesting eye-candy,
> but I could see where things were headed.  Give me a terminal and the
> ability to pop up a GUI-based web-browser, and I was fine.

That must be related to what you do. I did not like Enlightenment either
last time when it came out. But on the other hand, I like full-brown
desktop environment like Gnome and to a less extent KDE. Now
I can get used to KDE as well with KDE 4.2 even though I do not
quite like KDE 3.x last time.

> Tried ratpoison for a while, that was fine... but then realized I was slowly
> sliding toward either the Windows machine or the Mac for an SSH terminal
> into the Linux servers, and then realized there was little/no value in
> having a "real" Linux desktop machine... especially once Parallels and
> VMWare came on the scene.
>

That is what my youngest brother does as well. He is in the telecom
industry and often the servers are either using Linux or Solaris.
He uses SSH to talk to the server using a Windows machine.
Even then, he has tried to use Linux desktop before to get
used to the environment.

But for average users, a full brown desktop environment is better.
Windows and Mac are example of that. So there is nothing wrong
for main stream Linux distros to follow that. And I think there
are real innovations even for the eye-candy stuffs.


Xiaofan

2009\04\09@043400 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Wed, Apr 8, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Xiaofan Chen <.....xiaofancspamRemoveMEgmail.com> wrote:
>> In those sort of distros,
>> you simply execute the binary installer when the X server is down and
>> it will install perfectly almost all the time.
>
> In fact, I use the binary installed under Fedora 10 and that
> is not working for Compiz stuff.
>

So I tried to troubleshoot this problem out of curiosity.

Utility:
http://blogage.de/files/9124/download -O compiz-check

It is okay under Ubuntu 8.10 with the redistricted driver (177.82).
Therefore compiz works without an issue.

mcuee@ubuntu810:~/Desktop/ubuntu810$ ./compiz-check

Gathering information about your system...

Distribution:          Ubuntu 8.10
Desktop environment:   KDE4
Graphics chip:         nVidia Corporation GeForce 7100 / nForce 620i (rev a2)
Driver in use:         nvidia
Rendering method:      Nvidia

Checking if it's possible to run Compiz on your system...

Checking for texture_from_pixmap...               [ OK ]
Checking for non power of two support...          [ OK ]
Checking for composite extension...               [ OK ]
Checking for FBConfig...                          [ OK ]
Checking for hardware/setup problems...           [ OK ]


But for Fedora 10 with the latest Nvidia driver, it is not good.
Therefore it must have something to do with the latest driver
or my setup.

[mcuee@ubuntu810 mypc]$ ./compiz-check

Gathering information about your system...

Distribution:          Fedora release 10 (Cambridge)
Desktop environment:   KDE4
Graphics chip:         nVidia Corporation GeForce 7100 / nForce 620i (rev a2)
Driver in use:         nvidia
Rendering method:      Nvidia

Checking if it's possible to run Compiz on your system...

Checking for texture_from_pixmap...               [FAIL]
Checking for non power of two support...          [FAIL]
Checking for composite extension...               [ OK ]
Checking for FBConfig...                          [ OK ]
Checking for hardware/setup problems...           [SKIP]

At least one check had to be skipped:
Error: Unable to detect maximum 3D texture size


Xiaofan

2009\04\09@044639 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Xiaofan Chen <RemoveMExiaofancspamspamBeGonegmail.com> wrote:
> But for Fedora 10 with the latest Nvidia driver, it is not good.
> Therefore it must have something to do with the latest driver
> or my setup.
>

Indeed. Just reinstalled the driver and it works now.

[mcuee@ubuntu810 mypc]$ ./compiz-check

Gathering information about your system...

Distribution:          Fedora release 10 (Cambridge)
Desktop environment:   KDE4
Graphics chip:         nVidia Corporation GeForce 7100 / nForce 620i (rev a2)
Driver in use:         nvidia
Rendering method:      Nvidia

Checking if it's possible to run Compiz on your system...

Checking for texture_from_pixmap...               [ OK ]
Checking for non power of two support...          [ OK ]
Checking for composite extension...               [ OK ]
Checking for FBConfig...                          [ OK ]
Checking for hardware/setup problems...           [ OK ]


Xiaofan

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