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'[BUY] cable, 6inches to 1ft, female connectors for'
2007\05\10@023009 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
I seem to have designed myself into a corner. I need to connect up to 4
daughter boards to one main board. Each daughter has a 1x7 header that must
connect to a matching 1x7 header on the main board though a cable that can
be from about 6" to about a foot long. (that is errr... 15 to 30cm?) via AWG
24 to 28 wire.

Originally, I intended to cleverly arrange the daughter boards side by side
so that a standard IDC DIL cable could be used including a key between each
2 sets of the units which would prevent getting it on the wrong way, but
that isn't working out due to other mounting requirements which I totally
missed.

Cost and assembly time are the major issues.

I could just use the IDC DIL cable (ribbon cable with the snap on dual row
headers) but end users would have to get the correct side of the DIL
connected at each end... And I don't trust them to do it. As it is, there is
no way to key the thing and I fully expect people to put the cables on
backwards which will fry the unit, so giving them another entire way to get
it wrong seems really bad.

So the specific questions are:

1. Does anyone know of a common application that uses a 1x7 header with
matching cable? The theory here being that if such a cable is commonly used,
the price will be low. 3.5" floppy power cables are 1x4.

2. Are there people who make custom cables like that for very (very) low
prices in quantities of 100 or less? So far the people I've talked to didn't
want to talk after they hear that quantity.

3. Is there an easy way to make such a cable? The Molex connectors I've seen
take forever to crimp and solder to individual wires and then stuff in to
the little housing. If there was a SIL IDC, I would love to see it...

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
spam_OUTjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
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2007\05\10@032913 by James Salisbury

flavicon
face

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Salisbury" <.....jsalisburyKILLspamspam@spam@clara.co.uk>
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistspamKILLspammit.edu>
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2007 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [BUY] cable, 6inches to 1ft, female connectors for 1x7 headers


{Quote hidden}

>> --

2007\05\10@035401 by Roger, in Bangkok

face
flavicon
face
Fill the unwanted holes with super-glue?

On 5/10/07, James Newtons Massmind <@spam@jamesnewtonKILLspamspammassmind.org> wrote:
>
> ...




...
>
> ...
> no way to key the thing and I fully expect people to put the cables on
> backwards which will fry the unit, ...

2007\05\10@040100 by Brent Brown

picon face
On 9 May 2007 at 23:29, James Newtons Massmind wrote:
> 3. Is there an easy way to make such a cable? The Molex connectors
> I've seen take forever to crimp and solder to individual wires and
> then stuff in to the little housing. If there was a SIL IDC, I would
> love to see it...

Hard to find SIL IDC but they do exist... can you handle 8 way?...

Farnell P/N 636-502
nz.farnell.com/jsp/Connectors/IDC+type/ELCO/208284008000030/displayPro
duct.jsp?sku=636502

--
Brent Brown, Electronic Design Solutions
16 English Street, St Andrews,
Hamilton 3200, New Zealand
Ph: +64 7 849 0069
Fax: +64 7 849 0071
Cell: 027 433 4069
eMail:  KILLspambrent.brownKILLspamspamclear.net.nz


2007\05\10@040513 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>2. Are there people who make custom cables like that for very
>(very) low prices in quantities of 100 or less? So far the people
>I've talked to didn't want to talk after they hear that quantity.

Talk to your local disabled workers workshop. If you provide the tools you
can probably get exactly what you want at pretty reasonable price. I have
mentioned before, the company I did my apprenticeship with used an
intellectually disabled persons workshop to wind toroids we used in power
converters. These were done 100 at a time, and several batches were made
over a number of years. It is mind numbing work for the likes of you and me,
but for them it gave a useful income stream, and they felt they were doing
useful work, which raises their morale.

2007\05\10@052825 by Peter P.

picon face
You can change the boards to 2x7 and use IDCs with each 2 wires in parallel.
You can change to 2x4 and use normal IDC, with 1 pin for key.
1-row IDC connectors exist but I don't know where to get them. They go with
flatcable that has the wires spaced out to 2.54mm. Some are used in consumer AV
equipment. Someone wanted to know what a (pictured) Stucko connector was this
week, you might want to check that avenue, as there are many connectors like
that with IDC male and female on cable, and many are SIL, even with 7 pins in a
row. IDC cables take a few seconds to assemble each. A low volume assembler will
likely oblige. But do not skip the final test on the cables, the initial failure
rate on IDC cables is relatively high.

hope this is useful,
Peter P.








2007\05\10@064507 by Peter P.

picon face
Horrible link follows:

www.rapidonline.com/productinfo.aspx?mode=ep&tier1=Cables+%26+Connectors&
tier2=Connectors+-+Multipole&tier3=IDC+Connectors&
tier4=1.27mm+Pitch+IDC+connectors&moduleno=72591

You can use these on 1-row by clipping every other pin. For <100 pcs this is a
hack but it should be do-able.

Peter P.



2007\05\10@110337 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Brent,

On Thu, 10 May 2007 20:00:53 +1200, Brent Brown wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I looked at this as a way to connect SIL LCDs, but at nearly six dollars a piece, they price themselves out of most markets, IMHO!

James:  How about these?

 http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntt=571-6438147

(They seem to be IDC - diagram on pg. 1139 of Mouser catalogue).

I don't know what type of cable they take, but there must be some somewhere!  :-)

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\05\10@115203 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I looked at this as a way to connect SIL LCDs, but at nearly six
>dollars a piece, they price themselves out of most markets, IMHO!

Umm. remember that is NZ$, not US$. Would make it under US$4 if my quick
mental recollection of the rate is correct.

2007\05\10@121529 by Mark Rages

face picon face
On 5/10/07, James Newtons Massmind <RemoveMEjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspammassmind.org> wrote:
>
> 2. Are there people who make custom cables like that for very (very) low
> prices in quantities of 100 or less? So far the people I've talked to didn't
> want to talk after they hear that quantity.
>

Digikey makes some.

Here's an 8-position, 6" assembly: A9BBA-0806F  (it's a flat flex
cable)  $3.57 in qty 100.

They also sell pre-crimped wires for certain Hirose connectors.
Unfortunately, none are 0.1" pitch.

--
Mark Rages, Engineer
Midwest Telecine LLC
spamBeGonemarkragesspamBeGonespammidwesttelecine.com

2007\05\10@125115 by Marcel Duchamp

picon face
James Newtons Massmind wrote:
>
> Cost and assembly time are the major issues.

What is your target cost?

Are your boards already fabbed implying you must go with whatever they
are laid out for?  Or can you adapt to something else?

If they are already fabbed, what is the connector pitch? 1.25mm? 2mm?
2.5mm? .1"?

I have had some success for hobby stuff hitting the surplus outfits -
Allelectronics, etc., who often have assembled cables in stock, at least
for quantities up to 100.



2007\05\10@135601 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> James:  How about these?
>
>   www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntt=571-6438147
>
> (They seem to be IDC - diagram on pg. 1139 of Mouser catalogue).
>
> I don't know what type of cable they take, but there must be
> some somewhere!  :-)
>
> Cheers,
>
>
> Howard Winter
> St.Albans, England
>

Yeah, those are probably my best option, but the time required to crimp then
solder the wires onto the little pins and stuff them in the header is
something I was sort of hoping to avoid. Why don't they make a solderless,
cramp on, version of that like the ICD ribbon cables? Probably the wire
spacing in a ribbon cable is double that of the single in line .1" pin
header, but I would happily toss every other wire, or use 2 wires per pin.

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
TakeThisOuTjamesnewtonEraseMEspamspam_OUTpiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2007\05\10@140800 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> You can change the boards to 2x7 and use IDCs with each 2
> wires in parallel.

Sigh, the daughters are premade and can not be changed. I can change the
board they plug into, but it has to match the daughter...

> You can change to 2x4 and use normal IDC, with 1 pin for key.

Again, wouldn't that be nice? Honestly though, there probably isn't room on
the board considering where it has to fit.

> 1-row IDC connectors exist but I don't know where to get
> them. They go with flatcable that has the wires spaced out to
> 2.54mm. Some are used in consumer AV equipment. Someone
> wanted to know what a (pictured) Stucko connector was this
> week, you might want to check that avenue, as there are many
> connectors like that with IDC male and female on cable, and
> many are SIL, even with 7 pins in a row. IDC cables take a
> few seconds to assemble each. A low volume assembler will
> likely oblige.

Man, I sure wish I could fine those! I have searched just about every way I
can think and I can't find any source. All the IDC connectors I can find are
DIL.

I tried googleing for "stucko connector" and found only two entries, neither
of which led to any purchase info.

> But do not skip the final test on the cables,
> the initial failure rate on IDC cables is relatively high.

Ah, yes. Thanks for the warning. Then it wasn't just me all the times I've
made IDC cables and they have had bad connections in them...

>
> hope this is useful,
> Peter P.
>

Thanks Peter, much appreciated.

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
RemoveMEjamesnewtonspamTakeThisOuTpiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2007\05\10@142755 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> What is your target cost?

A few dollars or less for a set of 4. Like $0.50 or $1 per cable. Maybe as
much as $1.50 each.

> Are your boards already fabbed implying you must go with
> whatever they are laid out for?

The daughters are, the main board could be changed, but since it has to
match...

> Or can you adapt to something else?

There really isn't room on the daughter board to put anything other than a
1x7 header

> If they are already fabbed, what is the connector pitch? 1.25mm? 2mm?
> 2.5mm? .1"?

0.1" aka 2.54mm. 1x7 standard pin header

> I have had some success for hobby stuff hitting the surplus
> outfits - Allelectronics, etc., who often have assembled
> cables in stock, at least for quantities up to 100.

Holy poop! There it is:
www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/RJ-57/126/7_PIN,_5"#34;_JUMPER_ST
RIP_.html Now if I can just figure a way to make one end into a female so
the daughter boards can be unplugged as need be...

---
James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
jamesnewtonEraseMEspam.....piclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


2007\05\10@142913 by wouter van ooijen

face picon face
> Yeah, those are probably my best option, but the time
> required to crimp then solder the wires onto the little pins
> and stuff them in the header is something I was sort of
> hoping to avoid. Why don't they make a solderless, cramp on,
> version of that like the ICD ribbon cables? Probably the wire
> spacing in a ribbon cable is double that of the single in
> line .1" pin header,

correct

> but I would happily toss every other
> wire, or use 2 wires per pin.

can't you just use 2xN style connectors and ignore one row? or -if space
permits- maybe switch to 2xN style?

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu



2007\05\10@155735 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
Alan,

On Thu, 10 May 2007 16:52:01 +0100, Alan B. Pearce wrote:

> >I looked at this as a way to connect SIL LCDs, but at nearly six
> >dollars a piece, they price themselves out of most markets, IMHO!
>
> Umm. remember that is NZ$, not US$. Would make it under US$4 if my quick
> mental recollection of the rate is correct.

Ah, didn't notice that.  But it's still at least ten times the cost of other connectors of this size.

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\05\10@163240 by Peter P.

picon face
Molex has 83 hits on '2.54 mm IDT 7 circuits. Surely you can find someone who
sells them. Beware that Molex IDT is the kind that requires a special tool ($$$)
not an ordinary press.

www.molex.com/cgi-bin/bv/molex/jsp/products/listview.jsp?
query=idt+7+circuits+2.54+mm&path=&offset=&channel=Products&sType=a

I happen to know that such connectors (female on cable) can be pushed onto
ordinary 2.54 mm pin header rows. At least once.

Peter P.

2007\05\10@185623 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> Roger, in Bangkok Sent: 2007 May 10, Thu 00:54
>
> On 5/10/07, James Newtons Massmind <EraseMEjamesnewtonspammassmind.org> wrote:
> >
> > no way to key the thing and I fully expect people to put
> the cables on
> > backwards which will fry the unit, ...
>
> Fill the unwanted holes with super-glue?
>

Actually, I've been thinking about something like that... If I could plug
the holes down one side of a 2x7 IDC ribbon cable...

Super glue is probably a bit difficult, but there ought to be some sort of
plastic pin that can be used to quickly plug the holes.

---
James.


2007\05\10@190442 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> Mark Rages Sent: 2007 May 10, Thu 09:15
>
> On 5/10/07, James Newtons Massmind <RemoveMEjamesnewtonEraseMEspamEraseMEmassmind.org> wrote:
> >
> > 2. Are there people who make custom cables like that for
> very (very)
> > low prices in quantities of 100 or less? So far the people
> I've talked
> > to didn't want to talk after they hear that quantity.
> >
>
> Digikey makes some.
>
> Here's an 8-position, 6" assembly: A9BBA-0806F  (it's a flat flex
> cable)  $3.57 in qty 100.

That is dead on perfect... And I wonder how I missed it... But I would need
to find it for about 1/4 that price. And only Digikey seems to carry it:
http://www.findchips.com/avail?part=AFF08A


> They also sell pre-crimped wires for certain Hirose connectors.
> Unfortunately, none are 0.1" pitch.
>

Right, that also would be good, but the pitch is required.

Thanks!

---
James.


2007\05\10@195625 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> Brent Brown Sent: 2007 May 10, Thu 01:01
>
> On 9 May 2007 at 23:29, James Newtons Massmind wrote:
> > 3. Is there an easy way to make such a cable? The Molex connectors
> > I've seen take forever to crimp and solder to individual wires and
> > then stuff in to the little housing. If there was a SIL
> IDC, I would
> > love to see it...
>
> Hard to find SIL IDC but they do exist... can you handle 8 way?...
>
> Farnell P/N 636-502
> nz.farnell.com/jsp/Connectors/IDC+type/ELCO/20828400800
> 0030/displayPro
> duct.jsp?sku=636502
>

<nz.farnell.com/jsp/Connectors/IDC+type/ELCO/208284008000030/displayP
roduct.jsp?sku=636502>

Perfect! But the price is killer. Yike! Digikey carries it for $4 in the USA
but that is it.
http://www.findchips.com/avail?part=%20208284008000030

Wow... I like farnells search engine...

---
James Newton, massmind.org Knowledge Archiver
RemoveMEjamesspam_OUTspamKILLspammassmind.org 1-619-652-0593 fax:1-208-279-8767
http://www.massmind.org Saving what YOU know.

2007\05\11@035056 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Holy poop! There it is:
> www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/RJ-57/126/7_PIN,_5"#34;_JUMPER_ST
>RIP_.html Now if I can just figure a way to make one end into a female so
>the daughter boards can be unplugged as need be...

OK, how about using 1/2 a 14 pin DIL IC socket ...

2007\05\11@091608 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
James,

On Thu, 10 May 2007 10:55:53 -0700, James Newtons Massmind wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I say again: "They seem to be IDC" - I believe they *are* solderless, cramp-on!  (Or perhaps "punch-down" :-)  

But you'll need 0.1" spaced cable - the type that's used in domestic electronic devices, which are like a 0.05" ribbon cable with every other position
being just a plastic web with no copper in it.

Cheers,



Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\05\11@091944 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
James,

On Thu, 10 May 2007 11:14:23 -0700, James Newtons Massmind wrote:

> Holy poop! There it is:
> www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/RJ-57/126/7_PIN,_5"#34;_JUMPER_STRIP_.html
> Now if I can just figure a way to make one end into a female so
> the daughter boards can be unplugged as need be...

Looking at the photo closely, I believe these are the mylar-sheathed copper strip cables, not the sort of ribbon cable that I think we're discussing.  
Would they be robust (and the route between the ends straight) enough?

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\05\11@092139 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
James,

On Thu, 10 May 2007 15:52:29 -0700, James Newtons Massmind wrote:

{Quote hidden}

"Polarisation keys" - used to be quite common for plugging a hole in an IDC cable-header to ensure correct connection (the male part has that pin
missing).

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\05\11@101048 by alan smith

picon face
lacking time to read all the replies....I will just throw in Samtec.  You can get complete cable assemblies from them, samples are fast and they do make SIL ribbon cable type stuff, as I have one in the drawer somewhere.
     
---------------------------------
Park yourself in front of a world of choices in alternative vehicles.
Visit the Yahoo! Auto Green Center.

2007\05\11@192040 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> >Holy poop! There it is:
> >
> >www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/item/RJ-57/126/7_PIN,_5
"#34;_JUMP
> >ER_ST RIP_.html Now if I can just figure a way to make one
> end into a
> >female so the daughter boards can be unplugged as need be...
>
> OK, how about using 1/2 a 14 pin DIL IC socket ...


Now that is a truly interesting idea... How do you keep the thing together?
Solder the cable to the pins and somehow insulate? I don't see how to slid
any heat shrink onto the joint... Perhaps cover in potting compound or
silicon rubber?

What about using ribbon cable with one of those IDC DIP adapters? The type
used for emulation or debugging of an existing DIP chip? The trick there
would be keeping the IDC clamp part of it together after cutting off the
other half.

---
James.


2007\05\11@195720 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
{Quote hidden}

Oh... How did I miss that? I've been trying to find any examples of how
those are put together and could not. Even on the MFGRs web site! I guess I
will have to order a couple and try to see if I can understand it once they
arrive.

>
> But you'll need 0.1" spaced cable - the type that's used in
> domestic electronic devices, which are like a 0.05" ribbon
> cable with every other position being just a plastic web with
> no copper in it.

Right, I've seen that, it is available from several sources.

Thanks again for pointing that out twice.

---
James.

2007\05\11@203906 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face

> -----Original Message-----
> From: EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspamspamspamBeGonemit.edu
> [RemoveMEpiclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu] On Behalf Of alan smith
> Sent: 2007 May 11, Fri 07:11
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [BUY] cable, 6inches to 1ft, female connectors
> for 1x7 headers
>
> lacking time to read all the replies....I will just throw in
> Samtec.  You can get complete cable assemblies from them,
> samples are fast and they do make SIL ribbon cable type
> stuff, as I have one in the drawer somewhere.

They do have an absolutely lovely single in line IDC connector on a 0.1"
ribbon cable.
http://www.samtec.com/technical_specifications/overview.aspx?series=IDSS

But I cant find it anywhere

I've entered a request with samtec.com for a custom, 7 pin, 8 inch, SIL at
either end cable assembly. Or I think I have... Their interface is a bit
confusing, so I emailed them.

Thanks again!



---
James.



2007\05\11@204507 by Timothy J. Weber

face picon face
James Newtons Massmind wrote:
>> OK, how about using 1/2 a 14 pin DIL IC socket ...
>
> Now that is a truly interesting idea... How do you keep the thing together?
> Solder the cable to the pins and somehow insulate? I don't see how to slid
> any heat shrink onto the joint... Perhaps cover in potting compound or
> silicon rubber?

You might try SolderSleeves:

<http://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntt=650-CWT1501>

A quick way to solder a wire to a pin with insulation.

Then again, they're probably too expensive for the target price.

There are a bunch of other products described in the datasheet linked
from that page, though, that might help.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2007\05\14@033949 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>> OK, how about using 1/2 a 14 pin DIL IC socket ...
>
>Now that is a truly interesting idea... How do you keep the
>thing together? Solder the cable to the pins and somehow insulate?
>I don't see how to slid any heat shrink onto the joint...
>Perhaps cover in potting compound or silicon rubber?

Umm, I was thinking somewhat differently - use a DIL socket that has two
strips of plastic separated by cross ribs, cut the cross ribs, and solder
what is now a 7 pin SIL socket strip into the PCB, and plug the cable into
that.

However I am not sure that you will not need to choose the type of socket
carefully. I think you will need one of the el-cheapo ones with the folded
flat contacts to take that sort of cable, rather than the more expensive
turned pin type.

2007\05\14@103054 by alan smith

picon face
I guess I'm spoiled, in that my local Samtec rep services me quite well.  Best bet is see if you have a local rep?  
 
 I've found that making good friends with the reps.....is one of the best things you can do no matter what industry your in.

James Newtons Massmind <jamesnewtonSTOPspamspamspam_OUTmassmind.org> wrote:
 
> {Original Message removed}

2007\05\14@121327 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> >> OK, how about using 1/2 a 14 pin DIL IC socket ...
> >
> >Now that is a truly interesting idea... How do you keep the thing
> >together? Solder the cable to the pins and somehow insulate?
> >I don't see how to slid any heat shrink onto the joint...
> >Perhaps cover in potting compound or silicon rubber?
>
> Umm, I was thinking somewhat differently - use a DIL socket
> that has two strips of plastic separated by cross ribs, cut
> the cross ribs, and solder what is now a 7 pin SIL socket
> strip into the PCB, and plug the cable into that.
>
> However I am not sure that you will not need to choose the
> type of socket carefully. I think you will need one of the
> el-cheapo ones with the folded flat contacts to take that
> sort of cable, rather than the more expensive turned pin type.

Hummm... The insertion of the cable into the socket is something I'll have
to play about with. It may work, but my concern is that the "pins" which I
think are just tinned wires, will fold under or have other problems. With
the right socket, as you say, the cable should stay in there pretty well.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this particular suggestion?


Thanks!

---
James.


2007\05\14@123010 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> > lacking time to read all the replies....I will just throw
> in Samtec.  
> > You can get complete cable assemblies from them, samples
> are fast and
> > they do make SIL ribbon cable type stuff, as I have one in
> the drawer
> > somewhere.
>
> They do have an absolutely lovely single in line IDC
> connector on a 0.1" ribbon cable.
> www.samtec.com/technical_specifications/overview.aspx?series=IDSS
>
> But I cant find it anywhere
>
> I've entered a request with samtec.com for a custom, 7 pin, 8
> inch, SIL at either end cable assembly. Or I think I have...
> Their interface is a bit confusing, so I emailed them.

IDSS-07-D-08.00 is 3.538 each in 1-99. That is an 8 inch 7 conductor ribbon
cable with a SIL IDC on either end, pre-assembled. That is about twice what
I can afford, so I've asked for a quote on just the connector; part IDS-07-T
(T=tin, G would be gold). Samtec apparently isn't distributed?
http://www.findchips.com/avail?part=IDS-07-G
http://www.findchips.com/avail?part=IDS-07-T

If they quote $0.50 or less per connector, I'll go with that, as it gives me
the ability to supply just the connectors and ribbon cable. The users can
cut the cable to the length they need (or use their own) and then crimp on
the connectors and be done with it.

>
> Thanks again!
>
>
>
> ---
> James.
>  
>  

2007\05\14@143144 by alan smith

picon face
Arrow is a distributor for Samtec.  If its in stock is another issue, but samples and small qty are usually pretty quick for them.  Its always a balance to get something cheap (inexpensive) or a little more and have it solve the problem.  The issue usually is...the price is already fixed so costing more...costs you.  

James Newtons Massmind <spamBeGonejamesnewtonSTOPspamspamEraseMEmassmind.org> wrote:  > > lacking time to read all the replies....I will just throw
> in Samtec.
> > You can get complete cable assemblies from them, samples
> are fast and
> > they do make SIL ribbon cable type stuff, as I have one in
> the drawer
> > somewhere.
>
> They do have an absolutely lovely single in line IDC
> connector on a 0.1" ribbon cable.
> www.samtec.com/technical_specifications/overview.aspx?series=IDSS
>
> But I cant find it anywhere
>
> I've entered a request with samtec.com for a custom, 7 pin, 8
> inch, SIL at either end cable assembly. Or I think I have...
> Their interface is a bit confusing, so I emailed them.

IDSS-07-D-08.00 is 3.538 each in 1-99. That is an 8 inch 7 conductor ribbon
cable with a SIL IDC on either end, pre-assembled. That is about twice what
I can afford, so I've asked for a quote on just the connector; part IDS-07-T
(T=tin, G would be gold). Samtec apparently isn't distributed?
http://www.findchips.com/avail?part=IDS-07-G
http://www.findchips.com/avail?part=IDS-07-T

If they quote $0.50 or less per connector, I'll go with that, as it gives me
the ability to supply just the connectors and ribbon cable. The users can
cut the cable to the length they need (or use their own) and then crimp on
the connectors and be done with it.

>
> Thanks again!
>
>
>
> ---
> James.
>
>

2007\05\14@183453 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face

> IDSS-07-D-08.00 is 3.538 each in 1-99. That is an 8 inch 7
> conductor ribbon cable with a SIL IDC on either end,
> pre-assembled. That is about twice what I can afford, so I've
> asked for a quote on just the connector; part IDS-07-T
> (T=tin, G would be gold). Samtec apparently isn't distributed?
> http://www.findchips.com/avail?part=IDS-07-G
> http://www.findchips.com/avail?part=IDS-07-T
>
> If they quote $0.50 or less per connector, I'll go with that,
> as it gives me the ability to supply just the connectors and
> ribbon cable. The users can cut the cable to the length they
> need (or use their own) and then crimp on the connectors and
> be done with it.

The quote came back $1.35 each. Way too much.

For now, I guess I'm going to buy surplus from All Electronics, play with
cutting up dip sockets and other strange and excellent ideas, and keep
looking for a SIL IDC connector at 50 cents or less.

2007\05\14@193435 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On May 14, 2007, at 3:34 PM, James Newtons Massmind wrote:

> I guess I'm going to buy surplus from All Electronics

Consumer electronics are full of all sorts of cable connectors that
have assorted and widely varying keyed shrouds around them, in pitches
from 2.54mm on down to 1mm or so.  But "new" prices for these (eg
Hirose connector from digikey) are high and assembly is a pain.)  How
come I never see these hit the surplus markets?

BillW

2007\05\14@204207 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> Consumer electronics are full of all sorts of cable
> connectors that have assorted and widely varying keyed
> shrouds around them, in pitches from 2.54mm on down to 1mm or
> so.  But "new" prices for these (eg Hirose connector from
> digikey) are high and assembly is a pain.)  How come I never
> see these hit the surplus markets?
>
> BillW

If you ever figure that one out, please do let me know.

Like this cable I need, a SIL ribbon cable. If a DIL connector is basically
2 SILs why are there no SIL IDC connectors? Or rather, why is the only one I
could find (by Semtec) 4 or 5 times the cost of the same thing in a DIL?

If they were made SIL, they could be used as SIL OR DIL by putting one or
two on the cable. If the ribbon cable to pin conductor was offset a half a
pin, then the DILL could be assembled by putting one SIL on one way and the
other SIL on the other. The result would be the same as the current DIL IDC
clamp on connector. Then you could make the unit with a dove tail or 3 so
that the two halves are locked together before they are clamped onto the
ribbon. Finally, why not make the SIL like the break off headers: Any length
you need. Only the top of the clamp would have to be made in different
lengths and that could probably be avoided by making one side of the spike
that pierces the insulation long enough to go all the way through and then
stick into a cut to length top bar much like the Samtec system.

One part, manufactured in massive volumes for just about any ribbon cable to
header connect.

And the headers should ALL be SIL break away. I mean really, why does anyone
buy anything other than SIL break away headers? What CAN'T you do with that?

Now, if they made male to female SIL break away headers, why would you buy
IC sockets? Any size chip at any width could be made from those.

Then if you need a male ribbon cable connector, you just stick a standard
break away header into the end of the female IDC clamp on.

Have to run a length? Ribbon cable in a round shield. They make that, but it
is insanely expensive.

And with just that set above, what could you not hook up? Maybe some things
would need a stronger connector or strain relief?

More current? Why don't they make AWG 18 ribbon cable and IDC connectors?
Just set it up on .2" centers instead.

But no, they have to have a billion different sorts of weird connectors that
can only be used one way. PS2 and the old DIN connectors are my personal
favorite for stupid designs. Getting those oriented correctly is hit or miss
at best. I'll bet half the keyboard failures are from that connector getting
jammed up.

Those Hirose connectors aren't much better. What numnuts figured that out...
Lets see, we have a multipin connector, so it has to be oriented a specific
way, so what shape will we make it? Oh, I know! ROUND. How stupid is that?
And the Navy uses them all over the place with cables that have 50 or so
conductors, and come out of a bulkhead about 6 inches from the box they plug
into. How do you rotate a 50 pin cable over 6 inches trying to figure out
where the key slots are to get it into the connector the right way?

And why do they expect the connector to hold each and every pin in place? If
I had a $1 for every "pulled pin" I repaired in the Gulf, I'd be... Well...
I'd have a few hundred dollars anyway, but you know what I mean. 50 wires
all pulling back separately on pins that the hirose is trying to push into
the connector; if one pin lock fails, the wire is going to pull the pin back
and break contact. Why not secure the cable so that it is pressing a
standard IDC header into the box? They should have invested in some sort of
metal housing for IDC connectors on shielded twisted ribbon cable. Then all
the wires are pulling or pushing together.

Ok, enough ranting... I should get work done.

---
James.


2007\05\16@181240 by alan smith

picon face
...because the vast majority of engineers never touch a soldering iron, never see the assembled device, never worry how hard it is to manufacture.  They pick a connector from a catalog, or a vendors suggestion and do the drawing and send to the CM to build.
 
 The good engineers....the ones on this list.....know the pains, and design for manufacturing, usually at least.  :-)

James Newtons Massmind <KILLspamjamesnewtonspamBeGonespammassmind.org> wrote:
 > Consumer electronics are full of all sorts of cable
> connectors that have assorted and widely varying keyed
> shrouds around them, in pitches from 2.54mm on down to 1mm or
> so. But "new" prices for these (eg Hirose connector from
> digikey) are high and assembly is a pain.) How come I never
> see these hit the surplus markets?
>
> BillW

If you ever figure that one out, please do let me know.

Like this cable I need, a SIL ribbon cable. If a DIL connector is basically
2 SILs why are there no SIL IDC connectors? Or rather, why is the only one I
could find (by Semtec) 4 or 5 times the cost of the same thing in a DIL?

If they were made SIL, they could be used as SIL OR DIL by putting one or
two on the cable. If the ribbon cable to pin conductor was offset a half a
pin, then the DILL could be assembled by putting one SIL on one way and the
other SIL on the other. The result would be the same as the current DIL IDC
clamp on connector. Then you could make the unit with a dove tail or 3 so
that the two halves are locked together before they are clamped onto the
ribbon. Finally, why not make the SIL like the break off headers: Any length
you need. Only the top of the clamp would have to be made in different
lengths and that could probably be avoided by making one side of the spike
that pierces the insulation long enough to go all the way through and then
stick into a cut to length top bar much like the Samtec system.

One part, manufactured in massive volumes for just about any ribbon cable to
header connect.

And the headers should ALL be SIL break away. I mean really, why does anyone
buy anything other than SIL break away headers? What CAN'T you do with that?

Now, if they made male to female SIL break away headers, why would you buy
IC sockets? Any size chip at any width could be made from those.

Then if you need a male ribbon cable connector, you just stick a standard
break away header into the end of the female IDC clamp on.

Have to run a length? Ribbon cable in a round shield. They make that, but it
is insanely expensive.

And with just that set above, what could you not hook up? Maybe some things
would need a stronger connector or strain relief?

More current? Why don't they make AWG 18 ribbon cable and IDC connectors?
Just set it up on .2" centers instead.

But no, they have to have a billion different sorts of weird connectors that
can only be used one way. PS2 and the old DIN connectors are my personal
favorite for stupid designs. Getting those oriented correctly is hit or miss
at best. I'll bet half the keyboard failures are from that connector getting
jammed up.

Those Hirose connectors aren't much better. What numnuts figured that out...
Lets see, we have a multipin connector, so it has to be oriented a specific
way, so what shape will we make it? Oh, I know! ROUND. How stupid is that?
And the Navy uses them all over the place with cables that have 50 or so
conductors, and come out of a bulkhead about 6 inches from the box they plug
into. How do you rotate a 50 pin cable over 6 inches trying to figure out
where the key slots are to get it into the connector the right way?

And why do they expect the connector to hold each and every pin in place? If
I had a $1 for every "pulled pin" I repaired in the Gulf, I'd be... Well...
I'd have a few hundred dollars anyway, but you know what I mean. 50 wires
all pulling back separately on pins that the hirose is trying to push into
the connector; if one pin lock fails, the wire is going to pull the pin back
and break contact. Why not secure the cable so that it is pressing a
standard IDC header into the box? They should have invested in some sort of
metal housing for IDC connectors on shielded twisted ribbon cable. Then all
the wires are pulling or pushing together.

Ok, enough ranting... I should get work done.

---
James.


2007\05\17@094058 by Timothy J. Weber

face picon face
> James Newtons Massmind <EraseMEjamesnewtonspamEraseMEmassmind.org> wrote:
> Now, if they made male to female SIL break away headers, why would you buy
> IC sockets?

Because it's one less step in manufacturing, I would guess?  Sometimes
they break funny, and the pin on the end is left hanging out a bit, and
breaks off later... more uncertainty.  And there's no chance of them
getting soldered into the board at a slight angle that then makes it
hard to insert the chip.

(And, I have some male-to-female SIL break away headers, though I can't
remember where I got them offhand.)
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2007\05\17@140904 by peter green

flavicon
face

> (And, I have some male-to-female SIL break away headers, though I can't
> remember where I got them offhand.)
i use them in the picsquirt so i can put stuff under the chips, any decent electronics supplier should stock them (hell even rapid do!). And yes if they aren't in straight inserting the chip becomes a bitch.


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