Im looking for an alternator, i.e a generator with no engine, which
can output approx 150-250A at at least 120v, (higher voltage is
OK).Not too fussed if its DC, single phase AC or 3 phase AC. The
crucial thing is Im trying to find the smallest lightest model on the
market.
Ive done some searching around but without much success so Im looking
for potential suggestions please
I have one of their 12.5KW 2 bearing generators. It is heavy duty, heavy
weight, but you can buy just the generator unit from them for smaller
lighter units.
> Im looking for an alternator, i.e a generator with no engine, which
> can output approx 150-250A at at least 120v, (higher voltage is
> OK).Not too fussed if its DC, single phase AC or 3 phase AC. The
> crucial thing is Im trying to find the smallest lightest model on the
> market.
>
> Ive done some searching around but without much success so Im looking
> for potential suggestions please
>
> Thanks
>
> Andrew
>
>
Im looking for an alternator, i.e a generator with no engine, which
can output approx 150-250A at at least 120v, (higher voltage is
OK).Not too fussed if its DC, single phase AC or 3 phase AC. The
crucial thing is Im trying to find the smallest lightest model on the
market.
>
A discussion of what you are trying to achieve, and why, would, as always,
be useful :-).
eg this may be a one time use gas generator powered unit for a LASER
launcher, a component of an automotive 'diesel electric' hybrid, a field
portable electroplating rig or more. Acceptable cost, reliability, MTBF
weight, environmental withstand, electrical certifications and much more
may vary [tm] between these applications.
If you REALLY want the lightest practical unit, I know somebody* who could
probably make you one from scratch that would be about as good as any - at a
price that would be competitive. But, you probably don't need to take that
path.
>Im looking for an alternator, i.e a generator with no engine, which
>can output approx 150-250A at at least 120v, (higher voltage is
>OK).Not too fussed if its DC, single phase AC or 3 phase AC. The
>crucial thing is Im trying to find the smallest lightest model on the
>market.
>
>Ive done some searching around but without much success so Im looking
>for potential suggestions please
>
>Thanks
>
>Andrew
For smallest/lightest I'd guess something designed to go on an aircraft engine would be a good start
Andrew Wood wrote:
> Im looking for an alternator, i.e a generator with no engine, which
> can output approx 150-250A at at least 120v, (higher voltage is
> OK).Not too fussed if its DC, single phase AC or 3 phase AC. The
> crucial thing is Im trying to find the smallest lightest model on the
> market.
>
> Ive done some searching around but without much success so Im looking
> for potential suggestions please
>
> Thanks
>
> Andrew
>
It may have alloy parts but needs "iron" laminations or equivalent.
considering how "big" and "heavy" a washing machine motor is compared to
car alternator, I'd assume bigger still. As you get bigger efficiency
rises.
let's say 200A at 120V, that is about 24,000W. Maybe there is not much
difference in size from 15kW to 25kW.
Anyhow at those sort of power levels efficiency is going to be better
than a Washing Machine Motor. It's not going to make much difference to
weight & size if it's a motor or alternator.
Looks like you could be looking at 40kg weight at least and approx 35cm
dia min by about 35cm to 40cm long. Given requirements of steel shaft
and bearings, copper windings, chassis and magnetic circuit ferrous
laminations for 18kW to 25kW, I can't to be honest see a reliable
solution be much smaller or lighter. At these power levels there is
little difference between a generator and motor.
Andrew Wood wrote:
> Im looking for an alternator, i.e a generator with no engine, which
> can output approx 150-250A at at least 120v, (higher voltage is
> OK).Not too fussed if its DC, single phase AC or 3 phase AC. The
> crucial thing is Im trying to find the smallest lightest model on the
> market.
>
> Ive done some searching around but without much success so Im looking
> for potential suggestions please
>
> Thanks
>
> Andrew
>
Also http://www.everything-ev.com/75-kw25-kw-ac-induction-higher-speed-motor-p-279.html
45kg.
Basically an 8kW part can do 25kW if additional fan cooling, but only
for a short while :-)
In that this stuff is for electric cars, I'd imagine that weight & size
has been considered.
A 25kW standby Diesel Generator set looks like a it wants to be a
container when it grows up : D
On Mon, 7 Jun 2010 17:13:42 +0100, "Andrew Wood" said:
> Im looking for an alternator, i.e a generator with no engine, which
> can output approx 150-250A at at least 120v, (higher voltage is
> OK).Not too fussed if its DC, single phase AC or 3 phase AC. The
> crucial thing is Im trying to find the smallest lightest model on the
> market.
Would you be upset if the specs were perfect but the price was $5000?
I hate having to ask questions when I am supposed to be answering a
question.
One thing I do when I ask questions online, I figure I'm only given a
small number of questions and a small number of answers. That way I make
sure my questions are good, because I don't get a whole lot of do-overs.
Just saying... There are some good minds on the list, don't squander
them.
> It may have alloy parts but needs "iron" laminations or equivalent.
No. Could be entirely "ironless" with due care.
Magnetic field needs to be able to fully flux windings at large enough
depth to fit the winding material in.
Best grade rare earth magnets, double sided rotor etc.
RussellMc wrote:
>> It may have alloy parts but needs "iron" laminations or equivalent.
>>
>
> No. Could be entirely "ironless" with due care.
> Magnetic field needs to be able to fully flux windings at large enough
> depth to fit the winding material in.
> Best grade rare earth magnets, double sided rotor etc.
>
I'm sceptical. Not if you want that kind of power and also efficiency.
> Ive done some searching around but without much success so Im looking
> for potential suggestions please
You are looking at a >80hp alternator. Those are not small, or light, or cheap.
You also need to establish the RPM of the drive you will have and other issues
such as control gear type. Normal aircraft and automotive types are at least 10
times smaller power, even for trucks.
> Looks like you could be looking at 40kg weight at least and approx
> 35cm
> dia min by about 35cm to 40cm long. .
That sort of size is OK although obviously if we can get smaller that
would be even better.
The RPM needs to be somewhere between 1000 & 3500, we can adapt to
suit within that range and really the price under/ upto $5000 USD Its
for small narrow guage rail diesel electric locos.
Russell, that might be handy. Although at the moment we're looking for
one offs for prototypes eventually we would need batches of them to go
into production.
>>
>
> If you REALLY want the lightest practical unit, I know somebody* who
> could
> probably make you one from scratch that would be about as good as
> any - at a
> price that would be competitive. But, you probably don't need to
> take that
> path.
>
>
> > Looks like you could be looking at 40kg weight at least and approx
> > 35cm
> > dia min by about 35cm to 40cm long. .
>
>
> That sort of size is OK although obviously if we can get smaller that
> would be even better.
>
> The RPM needs to be somewhere between 1000 & 3500, we can adapt to
> suit within that range and really the price under/ upto $5000 USD Its
> for small narrow guage rail diesel electric locos.
Huzzah! :-) - I got the diesel electric right :-).
> Russell, that might be handy. Although at the moment we're looking for
> one offs for prototypes eventually we would need batches of them to go
> into production.
He walks in both worlds.
Hacks new machines out of sheet steel and copper wire and strontium
ferrite unmagnetised blanks etc BUT at one time sold zillions of BLDC
motors to whirlpool. etc.
He also presumably has contacts back into his prior world.
And also we both have possible contacts of use in Taiwan for
manufacturing if desired.
I'll try and tidy that spec up and pass it on to him.
Better, any chance of you putting all that together in a paragraph or
so and posting it or sending it to me. I think it sounds of interest
to others and you may get some good alternatives.
Targets:
Alternator or Generator.
200+ Amp.
120 + V.
ACV or DCV out.
Internal means to suit designer.
Mass - as low as sensibly possible.
Anywhere in 1000-3500 RPM
low < $ %000
Questions:
Max hoped for mass?
Max hoped for size?
Fn(Mass, Size, $) =
Can RPM in be constant? (eg engine optimum).
I'm assuming that the gauge is somewhere near the standard 7.5" gauge or
bigger. If that's the case, the 2 cylinder Kohler engine is a common
power source. That family of engines is available as a package generator
package. Why not use an off the shelf package. I understand the direct
coupled generator (alternator) to engine is a picky setup, might be
better to use a package that is already proven. My 12.5KW with a 27 hp.
Kohler engine uses a cog belt drive.
>
>> Looks like you could be looking at 40kg weight at least and approx
>> 35cm
>> dia min by about 35cm to 40cm long. .
>>
>
> That sort of size is OK although obviously if we can get smaller that
> would be even better.
>
> The RPM needs to be somewhere between 1000& 3500, we can adapt to
> suit within that range and really the price under/ upto $5000 USD Its
> for small narrow guage rail diesel electric locos.
>
> Russell, that might be handy. Although at the moment we're looking for
> one offs for prototypes eventually we would need batches of them to go
> into production.
>
>
> On 7 Jun 2010, at 17:51, RussellMc wrote:
>
>
>>>
>> If you REALLY want the lightest practical unit, I know somebody* who
>> could
>> probably make you one from scratch that would be about as good as
>> any - at a
>> price that would be competitive. But, you probably don't need to
>> take that
>> path.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> Im looking for an alternator, i.e a generator with no engine, which
> can output approx 150-250A at at least 120v, (higher voltage is
> OK).Not too fussed if its DC, single phase AC or 3 phase AC. The
> crucial thing is Im trying to find the smallest lightest model on the
> market.
Andrew
I just realised that I don't think I advised you that -
I spoke to my alternator guru.
It sounded like he'd have no difficulty providing you with a solution
inside your budget and space constraints.
Contact me offlist if of interest
btech-online.co.uk on 9/06/2010