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'[BUY] PIC microcontroller programming service'
2007\04\16@125114 by M. Adam Davis

face picon face
As you didn't tag your post correctly, many people on the list will
not have seen it.  I've added the tag [BUY] as you are requesting a
service.  I'd also suggest changing the subject to something like "C18
programmer needed".  The subject as-is suggests that you need someone
to program some pics for you, not that you need someone to write a
program for you.

I won't be able to help as I don't have C18 (I use the compilers from
http://bknd.com ).

Although I'm curious on what you base your time estimate - I've had
many people "estimate" how long their project should take and request
a flat fee, they are quite surprised when I re-estimate the project
once they've delivered the specification.

Good luck!

-Adam

On 4/16/07, SteveM <spam_OUTsteve.muranoTakeThisOuTspamgmail.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\04\16@164008 by olin piclist

face picon face
> Anyone wants to make $100 programming  a Microchip PIC
> microcontroller in C? I
>
> nstructions are simple, all the details will be provided. Not a
> lengthy program, should take 30-45 minutes for a professional! Email
> back for more details.

I doubt any professional is going to get anywhere near this.  You have no
clue if you think this will only take 45 minutes.  The interactions with
you, reading the spec, documenting the firmware release, and doing the
release will take that.  This doesn't include actually writing the code and
testing it.  It might be possible if the requirements are really simple to
grab a existing template, rename the files, and fill in your specific code.
However, there's more to a properly done project than just writing code.
And before you say "but that's all I want", no it's not, but if you really
believe that then you're definitely more trouble than you're worth for a
professional.  Maybe you can find a student who thinks they can make a quick
buck and doesn't yet understand this will take a few hours minimum no matter
what your spec says.  And then judging from your comments so far, I
seriouslly doubt your "spec" is ready to start coding from.

I would charge 1/2 day ($440) minimum for the simplest PIC project, even if
you just wanted me to provide a incrementing count on a port at whatever
speed I could make it go at.  However, there is no way I'd commit to a fixed
price without seeing the spec first, and there'd likely be some engineering
work to get the spec to where we both understand what the PIC will do and
agree how to measure when I've done my part.  I'd also insist on some
payment up front to guarantee you're real, which in the case of a 1/2 day
project would be the whole payment.

I think you will get a similar response from anyone else that knows what
they're doing, although the price may vary a bit.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2007\04\16@171448 by alan smith

picon face
I almost wondered if this was.....some EE class final project....

     
---------------------------------
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

2007\04\16@173445 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face

On Apr 16, 2007, at 1:41 PM, Olin Lathrop wrote:

>> Anyone wants to make $100 programming  a Microchip PIC
>> microcontroller in C? I

> I doubt any professional is going to get anywhere near this.  You have
> no
> clue if you think this will only take 45 minutes.

What Olin said.  You'd be better off asking for free help.

I wrote a tiny little C program to simulate on and off times for a
7-segment
clock the other day.  It took about 45 minutes (of somewhat incomplete
attention),
plus probably another 20 minutes to add appropriate final comments and
such.

BillW

2007\04\16@194831 by olin piclist

face picon face
William Chops Westfield wrote:
> I wrote a tiny little C program to simulate on and off times for a
> 7-segment
> clock the other day.  It took about 45 minutes (of somewhat incomplete
> attention),
> plus probably another 20 minutes to add appropriate final comments and
> such.

And that doesn't include trying to understand the "spec" this type of
customer thinks is all done, explaining why it takes real engineering effort
to produce a real spec, going back and forth negotiating what the customer
really wants once you put those pesky numbers on the spec (and no, "as fast
as possible", "minimal power", and "lowest possible cost" are not meaningful
metrics), creating and testing the release scripts, archiving the release,
sending the release to the customer, writing and sending a invoice to the
customer.  And this type of customer always thinks you're trying to rip him
off because the project is conceptually so simple.

And all that for $100?  Yeah, right.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2007\04\16@200739 by James Nick Sears

flavicon
face
Yeah I hate when people ask to get work done, and then tell you how  
"easy" it is, or how it "will only take an hour".  If you know enough  
to know it's easy or that it will take an hour, then you should  
likely know enough to just do it.

-n.


On Apr 16, 2007, at 7:48 PM, Olin Lathrop wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2007\04\16@222639 by D. Jay Newman

flavicon
face
Hi:

When I worked as a professional programmer for Penn State, we (as part
of a team including instructional designers, graphic artists, and such)
would review faculty proposals and do the ones that had both the greatest
impact on students that we had the resources to do.

I remember one project's suggested timeline that had 9 months of design
time and only one week of programmer time! This was a project that was
accepted with a revised timeline and took several years to program.

> Yeah I hate when people ask to get work done, and then tell you how  
> "easy" it is, or how it "will only take an hour".  If you know enough  
> to know it's easy or that it will take an hour, then you should  
> likely know enough to just do it.
--
D. Jay Newman           ! Author of: _Linux Robotics: Building Smarter Robots_
.....jayKILLspamspam@spam@sprucegrove.com     ! ME? I vos travelink about. Deliverink messages.
http://enerd.ws/robots  ! Causink TROUBLE. -- a female Jaeger from Girl Genius

2007\04\16@230548 by John Chung

picon face
Same here. I always then to hear that. I am
particularly careful when I say things are easy. A bit
of extra knowledge is nothing to shout about.

John


--- James Nick Sears <listsspamKILLspamjamesnsears.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

********************************************************************
> > Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts,
> http://www.embedinc.com/products
> > (978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since
> 2000.
> > --

2007\04\16@231254 by John Chung

picon face
The part when the specs are not fixed do scare away
most engineers.

John


--- Olin Lathrop <.....olin_piclistKILLspamspam.....embedinc.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

********************************************************************
> Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts,
> http://www.embedinc.com/products
> (978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since
> 2000.
> --

2007\04\17@083727 by olin piclist

face picon face
John Chung wrote:
> The part when the specs are not fixed do scare away
> most engineers.

I don't have a problem with unfixed specs by themselves.  The problem is
when the customer thinks they have fixed the spec but its a long way from
usable, and they think you're trying to rip them off in writing a real spec.

And as others have said, the worst type of customer is the one that tries to
tell me how easy the project is.  This is second only to "Our guy Vinny is
80% done and can't quite seem to finish, so we just want you to do the last
20%, and of course we expect to only pay 20% of what Vinny originally quoted
us.".  Unfortunately these type of people usually pop up right after the
economy takes a dive, so you aren't is a good position to turn down work.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2007\04\17@084739 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:02:23 -0400 (EDT), D. Jay Newman wrote:

>...
> I remember one project's suggested timeline that had 9 months of design
> time and only one week of programmer time! This was a project that was
> accepted with a revised timeline and took several years to program.

The thing that used to annoy me was when an inaugural meeting to discuss the feasibility of developing a new system
was followed by 18 months of silence, while the powers-that-be cogitated on whether they wanted it or not, and then
suddenly said "Yes, and we want it by the 1st of January", some time in September.  If it takes a year and a half to
decide that it's needed, why do they think it only takes three months to make it happen?  (From scratch, with only a
rough outline spec.)  And hiring-in extra people to make it happen faster is a stupid idea: "You can't get nine women to
produce a baby in a month"...

And choosing the 1st of January as a release date is utterly moronic - for a start it's a holiday anyway, secondly a lot
of things happen at the start of the year (accounting year-ends, and so on) so everyone is already busier than usual
and won't have time to learn a new system, and finally it's preceded by the most disrupted time of the year, when
many people take a few extra days from their annual allowance to make a ten or eleven day run of time away from
work.  Not the time to have a looming deadline!

</rant>

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\04\17@093606 by alan smith

picon face
and....I thought it was only happening at companies i work at......
 
 is it any wonder Dilbert lives at every company??

Howard Winter <EraseMEHDRWspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTh2org.demon.co.uk> wrote:
 On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 22:02:23 -0400 (EDT), D. Jay Newman wrote:

>...
> I remember one project's suggested timeline that had 9 months of design
> time and only one week of programmer time! This was a project that was
> accepted with a revised timeline and took several years to program.

The thing that used to annoy me was when an inaugural meeting to discuss the feasibility of developing a new system
was followed by 18 months of silence, while the powers-that-be cogitated on whether they wanted it or not, and then
suddenly said "Yes, and we want it by the 1st of January", some time in September. If it takes a year and a half to
decide that it's needed, why do they think it only takes three months to make it happen? (From scratch, with only a
rough outline spec.) And hiring-in extra people to make it happen faster is a stupid idea: "You can't get nine women to
produce a baby in a month"...

And choosing the 1st of January as a release date is utterly moronic - for a start it's a holiday anyway, secondly a lot
of things happen at the start of the year (accounting year-ends, and so on) so everyone is already busier than usual
and won't have time to learn a new system, and finally it's preceded by the most disrupted time of the year, when
many people take a few extra days from their annual allowance to make a ten or eleven day run of time away from
work. Not the time to have a looming deadline!



Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2007\04\17@100350 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
alan smith wrote:

> and....I thought it was only happening at companies i work at......
>    
>   is it any wonder Dilbert lives at every company??

I used to believe that he lived "particularly" in Italian companies :-(


--
Ciao, Dario

2007\04\17@140702 by James Newtons Massmind

face picon face
> And choosing the 1st of January as a release date is utterly
> moronic - for a start it's a holiday anyway, secondly a lot
> of things happen at the start of the year (accounting
> year-ends, and so on) so everyone is already busier than
> usual and won't have time to learn a new system, and finally
> it's preceded by the most disrupted time of the year, when
> many people take a few extra days from their annual allowance
> to make a ten or eleven day run of time away from work.  Not
> the time to have a looming deadline!


My old boss used to set the project deadlines on the holidays. If we got
done early, we got extra days off (never happened) but if we were behind, we
were expected to give up the holiday to "make it happen" for the company.
Birthdays were "a day like any other." We didn't pay bribes, we "allowed
important people to participate in the revenue stream." We didn't attempt to
defraud the state by failing to pay sales tax, we "misunderstood the local
regulations." We didn't spam, we "kept interested users informed of products
they would find useful." We didn't run up huge shipping and supplier bills
and then declare bankruptcy while selling our product line to the owners
wife and moving 5 miles down the road, we "went through a very necessary
reorganization." And the same UPS and FedEx drivers serviced the new
account, picking up the same product from the same warehouse manager on a
standard account. The company was "very successful" and is still in
business. He owned several houses out-right, drank Sam Adams after 5 at work
and drove a top end Mercedes.

I didn't like myself very much when I was working for that company; the
pressure made me into a total prick. Or I allowed myself to become.. However
you want to word it. I had a mortgage, drank rot gut coffee and drove
Tercels and Civics. Still do.

Life is better now. Well... At least until the boss retires and the bosses
daughter takes over... She has no net worth despite a 6 figure income,
drinks Starbucks and just purchased a top end beemer; which in my experience
is a sure sign of bad things to come. Nothing against BWM, they just seem to
be the car of choice for bad managers.

---
James.


2007\04\17@141554 by Dario Greggio

face picon face
James Newtons Massmind wrote:
> Nothing against BWM, they just seem to
> be the car of choice for bad managers.

LOL!
I did say the same back in 1996, watching a guy (estate agency)

--
Ciao, Dario

2007\04\17@161243 by Richard Prosser

picon face
Some things never change.

RP

On 18/04/07, Howard Winter <HDRWspamspam_OUTh2org.demon.co.uk> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2007\04\17@185429 by Nate Duehr

face
flavicon
face
On 4/17/07, James Newtons Massmind <@spam@jamesnewtonKILLspamspammassmind.org> wrote:
>
>
> standard account. The company was "very successful" and is still in
> business. He owned several houses out-right, drank Sam Adams after 5 at
> work
> and drove a top end Mercedes.


"Very successful" usually means you screwed everyone on your way to the top
with a smile and a nod their direction.

Two of my bosses sold roughly $1.5 million each in company stock on
Valentine's Day -- I guess the Mrs.'s wanted some new toys... (GRIN).

Wouldn't that be interesting... coming home $1.5 million dollars richer
after a talk with your lawyer, the company lawyer, and making the proper
public statements that you're going to sell the stock to the SEC, and a
click of the mouse?

It's a different world than where I sit... that's for sure... Mel Brooks'
line, "It's good to be the King" comes to mind...

Nate

2007\04\17@191453 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:

> This is second only to "Our guy Vinny is 80% done and can't quite seem to
> finish, so we just want you to do the last 20%, and of course we expect
> to only pay 20% of what Vinny originally quoted us.".  

This is usually a case of the miraculous multiplication of percents. The
"20% of what Vinny originally quoted us" for the remainder quite often turn
out to be 200% of what Vinny originally quoted :)

Gerhard

2007\04\17@221258 by Vitaliy

flavicon
face
James Newtons Massmind wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Thanks for the story, James. I even think if the company's conduct is
immoral, and bordering on illegal, it's OK to name names. I'd hate to do
business with such company, and I would not buy their products.

By the way, I think I have the reputation of being a Catbert, because of my
views on free trade, outsourcing, and the emphasis on efficiency and the
bottom line. :)

But, I also believe it makes business sense to keep employees happy. Last
year our company has adopted a PTO policy, which includes paid holidays. In
February, we started offering medical, dental, and life insurance benefits.
We pay competitive wages, and I believe the employees like working here -- I
say that in part based on our relatively high retention rate, and in part on
the laughs and happy chatter that I hear throughout the day. Hardly ever is
anyone asked to work overtime (although I myself put in at least 50 hours
every week). I have never, ever, screamed at, insulted, or belittled an
employee.

If your boss is a jerk, look for work elsewhere. I did, on at least two
occasions (that I can remember). I understand that in certain circuimstances
it's better to tolerate the jerk, than to be unemployed -- but just be aware
that not all companies are evil, and don't give up the search.

Best regards,

Vitaliy

PS For the record, I drive an '06 Hyundai Sonata, which I bought used last
year. My previous car was a '97 Sunfire.

2007\04\18@040837 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Nothing against BWM, they just seem to
>be the car of choice for bad managers.

Oh, so BMW stands for Bad Managers Wheels ??? ;)

2007\04\18@042034 by Tamas Rudnai

face picon face
No, BMW is for Badly Manufactured Wagen (or VVehicle :-)) <grin>

Tamas
PS: I have an Opel Omega and accidentally they put a BMW engine in it -
surprisingly that's the best component of that car


On 4/18/07, Alan B. Pearce <KILLspamA.B.PearceKILLspamspamrl.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> >Nothing against BWM, they just seem to
> >be the car of choice for bad managers.
>
> Oh, so BMW stands for Bad Managers Wheels ??? ;)
>
> -

2007\04\18@051951 by Tony Smith

picon face
> Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
> > This is second only to "Our guy Vinny is 80% done and can't
> quite seem
> > to finish, so we just want you to do the last 20%, and of course we
> > expect to only pay 20% of what Vinny originally quoted us.".
>
> This is usually a case of the miraculous multiplication of
> percents. The "20% of what Vinny originally quoted us" for
> the remainder quite often turn out to be 200% of what Vinny
> originally quoted :)
>
> Gerhard


As the saying goes: "The first 90% takes 90% of the time. The last 10% takes
the other 90%."

Tony

2007\04\18@083442 by Timothy J. Weber

face picon face
Vitaliy wrote:
> By the way, I think I have the reputation of being a Catbert, because of my
> views on free trade, outsourcing, and the emphasis on efficiency and the
> bottom line. :)

Not by me - I never got a chance to reply to that thread, but it wasn't
because I flipped the Catbert bit on you.  :)  To be a real Catbert, you
have to enjoy making people miserable!

> If your boss is a jerk, look for work elsewhere. I did, on at least two
> occasions (that I can remember). I understand that in certain circuimstances
> it's better to tolerate the jerk, than to be unemployed -- but just be aware
> that not all companies are evil, and don't give up the search.

Agreed - I've done the same a few times, and it was always worth it.
Just because the pointy-haired boss (and Catbert) are everywhere doesn't
mean they should be tolerated.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

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