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PICList Thread
'[BUY]: USB device ID'
2005\12\31@175616 by olin piclist

face picon face
Wouter, I tried to buy one of your 10-pack of USB device IDs.  $24 is a
reasonable price, but it kept adding $7-8 something that it didn't explain.
In fact that was there before I added anything to the cart.  I'm expecting
you "deliver" the device IDs by sending me an email message so there
shouldn't be any shipping, right?  What am I missing.  I'd still like to buy
the device IDs.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2005\12\31@181139 by David VanHorn

picon face
Dealer prep? :)


'[BUY]: USB device ID'
2006\01\01@115751 by Wouter van Ooijen
face picon face
> Wouter, I tried to buy one of your 10-pack of USB device IDs.
>  $24 is a
> reasonable price, but it kept adding $7-8 something that it
> didn't explain.
> In fact that was there before I added anything to the cart.  
> I'm expecting
> you "deliver" the device IDs by sending me an email message so there
> shouldn't be any shipping, right?  What am I missing.  I'd
> still like to buy the device IDs.

Short answer: sorry, there is a flat fee S/H per order, even when you
buy only a PID range. You are not the first to ask, so I added a FAQ:
http://www.voti.nl/pids/pidfaq.html.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\01@162314 by olin piclist

face picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> Short answer: sorry, there is a flat fee S/H per order, even when you
> buy only a PID range. You are not the first to ask, so I added a FAQ:
> http://www.voti.nl/pids/pidfaq.html.

OK, I ordered 10 PIDs.

I also use the PayPal merchant services.  The main attraction is that there
is not monthly fee or startup cost, and the per-transaction cost is only a
bit more than other credit card services would charge.  However, my biggest
gripe is how inflexible it is about shipping costs.  You can either do a
flat amount per order as you do, or add some amount to each item as I do.
The problem is that real shipping costs don't work in either of these two
ways.  They are mostly dependent on weight and destination (from a fixed
ship-from location).

I would like to be able to specify the shipping weight of each item, then
have a separate algorithm determine shipping cost, with a few different
destination zones.  Some simple like a price proportional to weight plus a
fixed amount would be good enough.  It doesn't have to be exact to be a lot
better than what there is now.  I currently have different buttons for
shipping within the US and external.  That helps, but also clutters up the
web page.  I specify a higher shipping cost for the first of an item and
lower for subsequent, but that doesn't work when someone orders different
items.  Oh well, nothing is perfect.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\01@171619 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I also use the PayPal merchant services.  The main attraction
> is that there is not monthly fee or startup cost, and the
> per-transaction cost is only a
> bit more than other credit card services would charge.  

The funny part is that only you Americans could come up with such a
system: in Europe (at least in most Euro-countries) the banking system
is so good that the market for such a system would be too low to get it
working.

> However, my biggest gripe is how inflexible it is about
> shipping costs.  You can either do a
> flat amount per order as you do, or add some amount to each
> item as I do.

Actually I do a little bit of both: heavy and/or large items have a part
of their shipping cost calculated into the item price. But that is a bit
unfair for those who buy more than one of such items.

I never considered using the PP shipping cost system. It is too simple.

{Quote hidden}

If I ever run out of things to do I will create a system like you
describe. But there is a lot that is more pressing: adding interesting
new chips to the webshop, making a Wisp628-followup, getting that batch
of LCDs to work, finishing those projects that should have been
completed half a year ago, and all that in 2 days a week ...

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\01@180128 by John Nall

picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> > Actually I do a little bit of both: heavy and/or large items have a part
> of their shipping cost calculated into the item price. But that is a bit
> unfair for those who buy more than one of such items.
>  
It may be (or may not be) that both you and Olin would like to know what
a customer thinks of all this (and I have bought from both of you in the
past).  I may or may not be typical, but suspect that I am.  Personally,
I am deeply offended when something called "shipping and handling" is a
large amount which obviously is much more than it should be, just as I
am deeply offended when someone on eBay has a "shipping charge" which is
out of sight.  So let me offer just a word of advice -- build the
shipping and handling charges into your basic price, or at least a large
percentage of it.

Happy New Year!
John

2006\01\01@184901 by Mike Harrison

flavicon
face
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 18:01:26 -0500, you wrote:

>Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>> > Actually I do a little bit of both: heavy and/or large items have a part
>> of their shipping cost calculated into the item price. But that is a bit
>> unfair for those who buy more than one of such items.

..so build this into a quantity discount.

>It may be (or may not be) that both you and Olin would like to know what
>a customer thinks of all this (and I have bought from both of you in the
>past).  I may or may not be typical, but suspect that I am.  Personally,
>I am deeply offended when something called "shipping and handling" is a
>large amount which obviously is much more than it should be, just as I
>am deeply offended when someone on eBay has a "shipping charge" which is
>out of sight.  So let me offer just a word of advice -- build the
>shipping and handling charges into your basic price, or at least a large
>percentage of it.

I'd agree with this - Looks like ebay has cottonned on to this as well as ship costs now appear in
search result listings, which makes it a lot easier to compare 'real' prices.

2006\01\01@200801 by Timothy Weber

face picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
> I also use the PayPal merchant services.

> I would like to be able to specify the shipping weight of each item, then
> have a separate algorithm determine shipping cost, with a few different
> destination zones.  

Have you looked into the various APIs PayPal exports?  Basically they'll
hit your web server at different points in the process if you want, and
you can do some processing as part of the transaction.  I've used it for
myself and some clients to sell digital merchandise like shareware with
automatic delivery.  Don't know if they support custom shipping
calculations, but it's worth a look - and they've expanded those APIs in
the last year or so too, so it's worth looking again if you haven't
recently.
--
Timothy J. Weber
http://timothyweber.org

2006\01\01@202212 by olin piclist

face picon face
John Nall wrote:
> build the shipping and handling charges into your basic price, or
> at least a large percentage of it.

The problem is that the actual shipping cost varies widely depending on
destination.  I also have some customers that are local.  They come pick it
up or I drop it off if I'm there anyway and don't charge them any shipping.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\01@202519 by olin piclist

face picon face
Timothy Weber wrote:
> Have you looked into the various APIs PayPal exports?  Basically
> they'll hit your web server at different points in the process if you
> want, and you can do some processing as part of the transaction.
> I've used it for myself and some clients to sell digital merchandise
> like shareware with automatic delivery.  Don't know if they support
> custom shipping calculations, but it's worth a look - and they've
> expanded those APIs in the last year or so too, so it's worth looking
> again if you haven't recently.

I just use the basic buttons on my side.  I have no idea how all the fancy
web stuff works and no time to look into it.  I also don't run my own web
server, so I'm not sure how much I could do anyway.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\02@032527 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> >> > Actually I do a little bit of both: heavy and/or large
> items have a part
> >> of their shipping cost calculated into the item price. But
> that is a bit
> >> unfair for those who buy more than one of such items.
>
> ..so build this into a quantity discount.

That is possible, but it would be work, work, work (for me). Time for
that has to come from something else. For now I prefer (for instance)
adding new items to the shop.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\02@032527 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> I may or may not be typical, but suspect that I am.  
> Personally,
> I am deeply offended when something called "shipping and
> handling" is a
> large amount which obviously is much more than it should be

It might no be wise to argue, but how can you know what the handling
cost should be?

> So let me offer just a word of advice -- build the
> shipping and handling charges into your basic price, or at
> least a large percentage of it.

So make the item price much higher than it should be? A small chip,
which now cost 0.20, would have to be priced at ~ $3. Now someone who
buys 2 pays the basic shipping/handling cost twice - not exactly fair!

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\02@032527 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Have you looked into the various APIs PayPal exports?

It might be nice if you use *only* PayPal, but I use other payment
options too. So if I would add shipping calculations it would be outside
paypal anyway.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\02@075251 by John Nall

picon face
Olin Lathrop wrote:
> > The problem is that the actual shipping cost varies widely depending on
> destination.  I also have some customers that are local.  They come pick it
> up or I drop it off if I'm there anyway and don't charge them any shipping
>  

I probably did not word my complaint as well as I should have.  :-)  
And I should also add that I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with
the way that you do it.  What I meant to say was that when someone (not
you) has a really good price but then has something called a "shipping
and handling charge"  that is out of all proportion to what it should
be, then I consider  that a scam. Especially since a lot of the time,
when ordering on-line, the S&H charge is not tacked on until after the
order has been completed (e.g., the credit card number has been
given).   So it was just a general gripe -- not aimed at you, and not
aimed at Wouter.

2006\01\02@081716 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> What I meant to say was that when
> someone (not
> you) has a really good price but then has something called a
> "shipping
> and handling charge"  that is out of all proportion to what it should
> be, then I consider  that a scam.

The problem is in 'out of all proportion to what it should be'. A simple
estimate: 5 minutes handling for an order, with a hourly rate of $60 =>
$5 *handling* fee per order. That is *handling*, so shipping should be
added. And the carton boxes, bubble plastic etc. I use to package stuff
are not free either. I don't know whether you consider that out of
proportion, I know some people do.

> Especially since a lot of the time,
> when ordering on-line, the S&H charge is not tacked on until
> after the order has been completed (e.g., the credit card number
> has been given).

I agree that *that* (adding an unknown extra cost) is not honest. But it
might be impossible to calculate the shipping when the order is placed,
especially for out-of-the-country customers. For instance: the
Electronic Goldmine shows a shipping cost when you place the order, but
it is for US-domestic only. Yet I must fill in my credit card details
based on this figure only. They solve this by emailing me first with the
correct amount and asking for agreement. Probably not a perfect
solution, but IMHO fair enough.

> So it was just a general gripe -- not aimed at you, and not
> aimed at Wouter.

sigh of relief :)

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\02@084155 by John Nall

picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
> > The problem is in 'out of all proportion to what it should be'. A simple
> estimate: 5 minutes handling for an order, with a hourly rate of $60 =>
> $5 *handling* fee per order.
.
The guys (gals?) in  the shipping department get $60 an hour in the
Netherlands?  Gracious!  We just use illegal immigrants over here, and
they get around $5 an hour!  :-)   Seriously, "out of proportion" should
be determined by the marketplace.  If your competitor (not you
personally -- if "one's competitor") does the S&H a lot cheaper, then I
kind of assume that it is out of proportion to what the true cost is.  I
might add  that I consider $5 a reasonable handling charge.
> > That is *handling*, so shipping should be
> added. And the carton boxes, bubble plastic etc. I use to package stuff
> are not free either. I don't know whether you consider that out of
> proportion, I know some people do.
>  
No, I don't.  If someone comes into the shop and buys something, then
they should be able to pay less than someone who has the same item
shipped.  The difference should be the cost of  the postage, the cost of
the materials used for packing, and the cost of the labor involved in
packing and shipping.  What I object to is some additional profit being
tacked onto that S&H charge.
> > I agree that *that* (adding an unknown extra cost) is not honest. But it
> might be impossible to calculate the shipping when the order is placed,
> especially for out-of-the-country customers.
>  
Right, I agree.  And when dealing with reputable sellers (such as
Digikey, for example) one goes ahead and does the deal even without
knowing what the shipping is going to be, because it is  going to be
fair.  I kind of like the way Amazon.com does it, since they seem to
enforce a fair shipping charge on the people that sell through them,
even though they are little independent dealers (so far as I can tell,
anyway).

> sigh of relief :)
>  
I know that you were worried!  :-)


2006\01\02@090253 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> The guys (gals?) in  the shipping department get $60 an hour in the
> Netherlands?  Gracious!  We just use illegal immigrants over
> here, and they get around $5 an hour!  :-)

It's only me, myself, and I in the shipping department, so yes: I am
gracious to myself! But if I wasn't my wife would tell me to stop
fooling around and get a real job :(

And besides: it is not just the shipping department. My accountant needs
a non-zero time to look at my stuff, and this time is by approximation
proportional to the number of bookings. And he will *not* work for $60
:(

>  If your competitor (not you
> personally -- if "one's competitor") does the S&H a lot
> cheaper, then I
> kind of assume that it is out of proportion to what the true
> cost is.

Or he uses a different cost calculation, or he ships from Russia, or
....

IMHO *any* S/H fee is fair, as long as it is made clear up front. I can
imagine that some big companies would need some $100 in costs for a
transaction. If the choice is between charging that (and being honest
about it) and refusing to do small (in their view) orders I'd rather pay
the fee.

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu


2006\01\02@091113 by olin piclist

face picon face
John Nall wrote:
> If someone comes into the shop and buys something, then
> they should be able to pay less than someone who has the same item
> shipped.  The difference should be the cost of  the postage, the cost
> of the materials used for packing, and the cost of the labor involved
> in packing and shipping.

Right.  In my opinion the difference is the "shipping and handling" charge.
The shipping part is the actual cost of shipping paid to the shipping
company, post office, or whatever.  The handling part is all the other stuff
that represent incurred costs that are directly due to the shipping.  Any
labor envolved in preparing the product itself should be part of the product
price.

Another way to define this is the bare product price is what you would pay
if you showed up and I just handed it to you without you taking any
additional of my time (of course then I would have to add 5% Massachusetts
sales tax unless you can show me a reseller certificate, but that's another
story).  However, if you ask me to ship something for you, whether it's
something you are buying from me or not, I have costs in addition to the
postage.

For example, I add a larger handling portion to international shipments
because it's such a pain in the butt to send stuff outside the US.  The nice
post office click and ship web site doesn't ever seem to work right for me
for international shipments.  I end up having to wait in line at the post
office and write the addresses out by hand three times.  Every time I'm
there doing that I think of all the useful things I could be doing instead
and sometimes jack up the international shipping and handling charge when I
get back to the office.

The cost of domestic shipments varies quite a bit too depending on distance.
Unfortunately PayPal only lets me put in a single shipping cost.  I thought
I had it about right until I lost money shipping a programmer to Alaska, so
I jacked up the cost when I got back.  Unfortunately that means people in
New Hampshire will pay more than needed.  There doesn't seem to be a good
answer that is accessible for a reasonable cost.  PayPal and other merchant
service companies have fancy interfaces that I'd either have to spend a lot
of time to understand and test or pay someone else to.  Either way, it's
probably a few $K to implement, and that doesn't make sense for the
relatively low volumes of stuff we sell (we are mostly a consulting
company).  I have on occasion done a partial refund of the shipping charge
when requested and I thought the request was reasonable.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\02@095830 by Howard Winter

face
flavicon
picon face
John,

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 08:41:53 -0500, John Nall wrote:

>...  
> And when dealing with reputable sellers (such as
> Digikey, for example) one goes ahead and does the deal even without
> knowing what the shipping is going to be, because it is  going to be
> fair.

Arghh!  If I remember rightly, Digikey doesn't tell you the shipping charge even when you have completed the
order, and on one memorable occasion I was charged something like US$50 for shipping something that cost $30,
and I didn't find out until I saw it on my credit-card statement!  Added to which they used a shipping method
that when it arrives here *always* has VAT levied, and attracts a very heavy fee for collecting the VAT (about
$20).  To be fair, they did refund the shipping charge when I complained about it, and said that I could have
chosen a cheaper shipping method by *typing it in* - it's a pulldown list and I chose the one that I thought
would be cheapest, so it's really not obvious that I could choose something not on the list (isn't that what
pulldowns are for, to force a valid choice?).  And how am I supposed to know the details of the various
options available in another country (expecially when they have confusing names like Global Express and Global
Priority - which of these is the more expensive?)?

As I said, they were very fair and did refund me, but I can't help thinking that telling the buyer what they
are going to be charged before the order is confirmed would be the right way to do it (ComputerGeeks do this,
even for overseas orders, so it's not impossible).

> I kind of like the way Amazon.com does it, since they seem to
> enforce a fair shipping charge on the people that sell through them,
> even though they are little independent dealers (so far as I can tell,
> anyway).

I think Amazon is acting as an agent, processing the order and passing on the details to the vendor, and
sending them the money less their commission.

I know what you mean about unrealistic shipping - there seems to be a large number of sellers in Hong Kong who
use eBay, sell gadgets for $3.99 and add $19.99 shipping, *per item*, so in this case they are just trying to
reel people in, and the actual price is $24 (and in many cases it isn't worth it).  I don't buy from people
like that any more!

Cheers,


Howard Winter
St.Albans, England


2006\01\02@095938 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
>  ...has a really good price but then has something called a
> "shipping and handling charge"  that is out of all proportion
> to what it should be,...

This is common on eBay. Many (mainly Asian) LED sellers
sells a bag of LED's for e.g. $1 and charges $10 in shipping.

The thing is that you don't pay eBay any fees for the shipping...

Jan-Erik.



2006\01\02@101400 by John Nall

picon face
Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> > The thing is that you don't pay eBay any fees for the shipping..
.
Gosh, I never even thought about  that!  Devious they are, those people
that do that.  Of course, on eBay one always has the choice of refusing
to pay an outlandish shipping cost.  Might get some negative feedback,
but that is a two-way street.  And in spite of the "you are entering
into a binding contract" language no one is really going to try and
enforce such a thing.  Litigation between people in different countries
is not worth the trouble unless there is a *lot* of money involved.  IMHO.

2006\01\02@102140 by John Nall

picon face
Howard Winter wrote:
> > Arghh!  If I remember rightly, Digikey doesn't tell you the shipping charge even when you have completed the
> order, and on one memorable occasion I was charged something like US$50 for shipping something that cost $30,
> and I didn't find out until I saw it on my credit-card statement!
.
Well, yes, but keep in mind, Howard, that you are in England, and we are
still holding a grudge about you guys burning our White House back in
1812!  (Of course, if you want to come take another shot at it now, then
forgiveness might be in order  :-)

> > I think Amazon is acting as an agent, processing the order and passing on the details to the vendor, and
> sending them the money less their commission.
>  
.
I agree, but apparently (from what I can tell by the email that amazon
sends the vendor, and which I sometimes get a copy of) there are rules
that the vendor has to follow in order to have amazon to be the agent.  
And one of  the rules seems to be that the shipping and handling charge
is a fair one.

2006\01\02@102421 by Jan-Erik Soderholm
face picon face
John Nall wrote :

> Jan-Erik Soderholm wrote:
> > > The thing is that you don't pay eBay any fees for the shipping..
> .
> Gosh, I never even thought about  that!  Devious they are,
> those people that do that...

I forgot to say, moving cost from "price" to "shipping"
in that way, is against the eBay rules (since they are
loosing money, of course), so you could easily have
your eBay account closed, if they find you... :-)

I myself have sold stuff on eBay with a starting price
of $0.01 (one cent) and a shipping of $8 (actual shipping cost),
but those auctions usualy had an ending price of $10-$30, so
that's no problem...

Jan-Erik.



2006\01\02@112621 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 14:58 +0000, Howard Winter wrote:
> Arghh!  If I remember rightly, Digikey doesn't tell you the shipping charge even when you have completed the
> order, and on one memorable occasion I was charged something like US$50 for shipping something that cost $30,
> and I didn't find out until I saw it on my credit-card statement!  Added to which they used a shipping method
> that when it arrives here *always* has VAT levied, and attracts a very heavy fee for collecting the VAT (about
> $20).  To be fair, they did refund the shipping charge when I complained about it, and said that I could have
> chosen a cheaper shipping method by *typing it in* - it's a pulldown list and I chose the one that I thought
> would be cheapest, so it's really not obvious that I could choose something not on the list (isn't that what
> pulldowns are for, to force a valid choice?).  And how am I supposed to know the details of the various
> options available in another country (expecially when they have confusing names like Global Express and Global
> Priority - which of these is the more expensive?)?

Hmm, that sucks!

Digikey for Canada is great: $8 flat rate (assuming your order is over
$32.50, otherwise there's a $6.50 handling charge).

Digikey is one of those online places that I treat the same as a bricks
and mortar when deciding whether to buy or not.

Plus, if you order before around 2-3pm today, it will arrive tomorrow
morning or mid day, every time. VERY reliable! :)

TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

2006\01\02@114732 by VULCAN20

picon face


Howard Winter wrote:

>  And how am I supposed to know the details of the various
>options available in another country (expecially when they have confusing names like Global Express and Global
>Priority - which of these is the more expensive?)?
>  
>
Global express is one day to certain areas. And is expensive
http://www.usps.com/global/globalexpressmail.htm

Global Priority  is faster then regular mail but not as fast as express.
http://www.usps.com/global/globalprioritymail.htm

John

2006\01\02@125712 by Josh Koffman

face picon face
On 1/2/06, Herbert Graf <spam_OUTmailinglist2TakeThisOuTspamfarcite.net> wrote:
> Digikey is one of those online places that I treat the same as a bricks
> and mortar when deciding whether to buy or not.
>
> Plus, if you order before around 2-3pm today, it will arrive tomorrow
> morning or mid day, every time. VERY reliable! :)

I placed the order for my ICD2 at 7:55PM (their cutoff is at 8PM) and
I had it in my hand before 10AM the next morning. I was floored!

Josh
--
A common mistake that people make when trying to design something
completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete
fools.
       -Douglas Adams

2006\01\02@140551 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 12:57 -0500, Josh Koffman wrote:
> On 1/2/06, Herbert Graf <.....mailinglist2KILLspamspam@spam@farcite.net> wrote:
> > Digikey is one of those online places that I treat the same as a bricks
> > and mortar when deciding whether to buy or not.
> >
> > Plus, if you order before around 2-3pm today, it will arrive tomorrow
> > morning or mid day, every time. VERY reliable! :)
>
> I placed the order for my ICD2 at 7:55PM (their cutoff is at 8PM) and
> I had it in my hand before 10AM the next morning. I was floored!

Hehe, yes, has happened a couple times, but I certainly don't rely on
it! Even more amazing is they're based in Winnipeg, probably 1000 to
1200 miles away from me!

I think the main point, and I'm sure you'll agree, is that in many ways
digikey is MORE convenient and cheaper to shop at then a store only a
few kms away! :)

TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

2006\01\02@142304 by David P Harris

picon face
Herbert Graf wrote:

>Hehe, yes, has happened a couple times, but I certainly don't rely on
>it! Even more amazing is they're based in Winnipeg, probably 1000 to
>1200 miles away from me!
>
>I think the main point, and I'm sure you'll agree, is that in many ways
>digikey is MORE convenient and cheaper to shop at then a store only a
>few kms away! :)
>  
>
I have to agree, just excellent service in Canada.  Plus their stock is
incredible - just got their latest catalog, its getting very fat.  
Prices for one-off is expensive, but if you can spring for the first
price break, then their price is competitive.  However, if you need that
one-off yesterday, then there next day delivery is great!

David



2006\01\02@143923 by olin piclist

face picon face
Herbert Graf wrote:
> Hehe, yes, has happened a couple times, but I certainly don't rely on
> it! Even more amazing is they're based in Winnipeg, probably 1000 to
> 1200 miles away from me!

I'm pretty sure DigiKey ships from their single location in Thief River
Falls Minnesota.


******************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, (978) 742-9014.  #1 PIC
consultant in 2004 program year.  http://www.embedinc.com/products

2006\01\02@150210 by Randy Glenn

picon face
They have a Canadian warehouse and shipping operation in Winnipeg -
most, if not all, Canadian orders go through there. Any package I've
received from them has a return address of Winnipeg and is shipped via
Purolator.

On 1/2/06, Olin Lathrop <olin_piclistspamKILLspamembedinc.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\01\02@150518 by Herbert Graf

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face
On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 14:39 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> Herbert Graf wrote:
> > Hehe, yes, has happened a couple times, but I certainly don't rely on
> > it! Even more amazing is they're based in Winnipeg, probably 1000 to
> > 1200 miles away from me!
>
> I'm pretty sure DigiKey ships from their single location in Thief River
> Falls Minnesota.

AFAIK Digikey basically has a huge warehouse in Canada, and the
digikey.ca site always lists the inventory at the Canadian warehouse.

The reason I say this is customs is never involved, I always pay GST
direct on the order (ordering from the US usually results in the courier
charging me the GST), and the purolator tracking always shows the pickup
in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada.

For example, this was the tracking information for the last package I
received from Digikey:

2005/12/29 12:46 Delivered to GRAF at AT DOOR
2005/12/29 08:01 On vehicle for delivery
2005/12/28 22:56 Left WINNIPEG, MB

I do remember a time when it WASN'T like this, and shipments usually
ended up taking almost a week, just getting through customs sometimes
took a few days. I guess Digikey thought there was a big enough market
in Canada to open up some operation here. Boy am I glad they did! :)

TTYL

-----------------------------
Herbert's PIC Stuff:
http://repatch.dyndns.org:8383/pic_stuff/

2006\01\02@152703 by Marcel Duchamp

picon face
Herbert Graf wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-01-02 at 14:39 -0500, Olin Lathrop wrote:
>
>>Herbert Graf wrote:

> I do remember a time when it WASN'T like this, and shipments usually
> ended up taking almost a week, just getting through customs sometimes
> took a few days. I guess Digikey thought there was a big enough market
> in Canada to open up some operation here. Boy am I glad they did! :)
>
> TTYL
The Digikey warehouse in Winnipeg may contain more than pic-chips... eh?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/29/AR2005122901412_pf.html

2006\01\02@183623 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
On Jan 2, 2006, at 6:02 AM, Wouter van Ooijen wrote:

> IMHO *any* S/H fee is fair, as long as it is made clear up front.

I can agree to that.  I don't even mind the eBay people with their
$1 items and $20 shipping charges, as long as they're clear on that
(though I wonder why eBay doesn't crack down, since it's clearly
an attempt to cheat them out of their cut...)

BillW

2006\01\02@203952 by Shawn Wilton

picon face
Ebay charges a fortune.  And if you use Paypal, then they get a cut on both
sides as they own Paypal.  They're hardly being cheated.  In fact they just
recently raised their rates, again.

So long as people are up front about the shipping costs, then who cares if
they tack the entire cost of the item on to it.  I personally *always*
factor in the cost of shipping when purchasing something off Ebay.

OK, sorry to have gone off topic.


On 1/2/06, William Chops Westfield <.....westfwKILLspamspam.....mac.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\01\02@222624 by VULCAN20

picon face


Shawn Wilton wrote:

>Ebay charges a fortune.  And if you use Paypal, then they get a cut on both
>sides as they own Paypal.
>

WRONG  The buyer pays nothing to Ebay.  The seller pays a listing Fee, a
percentage of his final sale price but not on the shipping fees and
finally if the buyer pays with PAYPAL  they Take a service fee which is
a percentage of the total money received.
All the seller pays is final cost and shipping. nothing to ebay or
paypal.  I remember when the founder of Ebay sent a email announcing
they had completed their 5000th auction.  They do that many in seconds
now, I think.

Thank you very much!
John

2006\01\02@225030 by Tony Smith

picon face
Excess shipping charges (on EBay) are another way to screw the buyer.
Sure, I've brought $0.01 items plus $19.99 shipping, but I figured I'd be
happy with what I was going to get, and if I wasn't, oh well.

Now, if I wasn't happy and complained, EBay would make sure I got my
purchase price back.

See how it works?  Seller gets plenty of business (wow, look, 1 cent!),
pays no EBay fees as shipping doesn't count (still gets hit by PayPal
though), and complaints are handled promptly, preserving their good image.

Hooray, I got my $0.01 (less settlement fees) back.  Thanks EBay!

Tony



{Original Message removed}

2006\01\02@231445 by Shawn Wilton

picon face
To who do you think I was referencing?  The buyer?  No, the seller is what I
am referencing.  If you have ever Ebayed anything then you now that their
fees can be ludicrous.


On 1/2/06, VULCAN20 <EraseMEVULCAN20spam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTcharter.net> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2006\01\02@231607 by Shawn Wilton

picon face
Then why purchase the item in the first place?

On 1/2/06, Tony Smith <ajsmithspamspam_OUTrivernet.com.au> wrote:
>
> Excess shipping charges (on EBay) are another way to screw the buyer.
> Sure, I've brought $0.01 items plus $19.99 shipping, but I figured I'd be
> happy with what I was going to get, and if I wasn't, oh well.
>
> Now, if I wasn't happy and complained, EBay would make sure I got my
> purchase price back.
>
> See how it works?  Seller gets plenty of business (wow, look, 1 cent!),
> pays no EBay fees as shipping doesn't count (still gets hit by PayPal
> though), and complaints are handled promptly, preserving their good image.
>
> Hooray, I got my $0.01 (less settlement fees) back.  Thanks EBay!
>
> Tony
>

2006\01\02@235003 by Nate Duehr

face
flavicon
face
Ahem... what does ANY of this Digikey discussion have to do with USB
device ID's?  (Fix the subject line, folks.)

Nate

Shawn Wilton wrote:
{Quote hidden}

>> --

2006\01\03@000702 by Shawn Wilton

picon face
What digikey discussion?  I thought we were discussing Ebay?  :-P


On 1/2/06, Nate Duehr <KILLspamnateKILLspamspamnatetech.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2006\01\03@001136 by Tony Smith

picon face
Why buy?  Well, cheap is cheap, within reason.  A 1 cent laptop with $1000
shipping is out, but a box of LEDs for 1 cent and $20 shipping is ok.

Despite gouging on shipping, most of the sellers are reliable.  I know
I'll get the product, but I need to allow for the fact that it's now mine
no matter what happens, no exchange, no refund (except the $0.01).  I can
afford to lose $10 or $20 now & then, but not $1000.

Think of it like $20 electronics grab bags, whether you like the contents
or not, you're stuck with them, and out $20.

Where's your sense of adventure?  :-)

Tony


{Original Message removed}

2006\01\03@064035 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
VULCAN20 wrote:

> Shawn Wilton wrote:
>
>> Ebay charges a fortune.  And if you use Paypal, then they get a cut on
>> both sides as they own Paypal.
>
> WRONG  The buyer pays nothing to Ebay.  The seller pays a listing Fee, a
> percentage of his final sale price but not on the shipping fees and
> finally if the buyer pays with PAYPAL  they Take a service fee which is
> a percentage of the total money received.

Hey, does it matter (for the ones who do math) where the fees/taxes/etc
happen? In the end, what counts is what one pays and what the other gets --
and the difference is added cost. Where it happens doesn't really matter
(for the ones who do math :)

That's like the 3% credit card fee. Of course you can fool the people who
don't do math by making it illegal to charge that to the buyer, but the
ones who do math know that then the seller only will factor it into the
price. And by that possibly cheat on the cash payers. In the end, the
seller will get his price and the buyer will have to pay it all -- goods
and fees. Always.

Gerhard

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