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'[ADMIN] Changed mailing list 'reply to" behavior.'
2011\03\02@122818 by RussellMc

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The mailing list "reply to" behavior changed recently and it has
started populating the CC field with the poster's address. Up until
recently this did not happen. It MAY have been an option that has been
changed by someone or by an upgrade or ???

Russel

2011\03\02@123437 by Bob Blick

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On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:27 +1300, "RussellMc" wrote:
> The mailing list "reply to" behavior changed recently and it has
> started populating the CC field with the poster's address. Up until
> recently this did not happen. It MAY have been an option that has been
> changed by someone or by an upgrade or ???


Someone at Google must have done it.

Nothing has changed on my end.

Messages still reply the same way they always did, directly to list with
no CC.

Cheerful regards,

Bob

-- http://www.fastmail.fm - Choose from over 50 domains or use your own

2011\03\02@131246 by Bob Ammerman

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----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Blick" <spam_OUTbobblickTakeThisOuTspamftml.net>
> On Thu, 03 Mar 2011 06:27 +1300, "RussellMc" wrote:
>> The mailing list "reply to" behavior changed recently and it has
>> started populating the CC field with the poster's address. Up until
>> recently this did not happen. It MAY have been an option that has been
>> changed by someone or by an upgrade or ???
>
>
> Someone at Google must have done it.
>
> Nothing has changed on my end.
>
> Messages still reply the same way they always did, directly to list with
> no CC.
>
> Cheerful regards,
>
> Bob


In Windows Mail (Vista), when I did this "Reply", I got:

Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <.....piclistKILLspamspam@spam@mit.edu>

in the "To:" field. If instead of  a reply I do a "Reply All", I get:

Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <piclistspamKILLspammit.edu>; Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <.....piclistKILLspamspam.....mit.edu>

i.e. I get two copies of the list address (I am assuming this would result in sending duplicate messages to the list server if I hit send).


-- Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems

2011\03\02@133230 by Joe Koberg

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On 2011-03-02 11:27, RussellMc wrote:
> The mailing list "reply to" behavior changed recently and it has
> started populating the CC field with the poster's address. Up until
> recently this did not happen. It MAY have been an option that has been
> changed by someone or by an upgrade or ???
>
>   Russell

I am not sure it has. I think a lot of it is based on the mail client behavior, which differs between posters.

The outbound headers speak all that's needed to know:

        Reply-To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public."<EraseMEpiclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu>


RFC 2282 suggests that it is the AUTHOR of the message who sets Reply-To, and since the list software is not the author, it should not be modifying this field.
If that were the case, the behavior would be the same standard behavior expected by many posters: Reply replies to the author.  Reply-All replies to the author and other recipients (list members via the list).  The recipient's mail client can eliminate the duplicated email based on Message-ID.  The mailing list software can eliminate duplicates by not sending the corresponding list message to the list member if they are also in a destination field of the incoming list posting.

The GNU Mailman documentation states:

   *reply_goes_to_list*
       This variable controls whether Mailman will add its own
       Reply-To: header, and if so, what the value of that header will
       be (not counting original header stripping - see above).

       When you set this variable to /Poster/, no additional Reply-To:
       header will be added by Mailman. This setting is strongly
       recommended.


The obvious disadvantage to this seems to be that replies will naturally occur off-list as opposed to being an ongoing on-list discussion. (e.g. Reply-to is set to OP.  Responder hits "reply-all". List software doesn't send the followup list posting to the OP based on configuration. OP replies to the direct followup, which now doesn't have List-Post headers so only goes back to Responder, and from that point onward the reply chain occurs privately, outside the list bailiwick.)  I would like to test this behavior further to verify my assumption.

This is a long-argued and fairly religious issue.  Obviously many people's opinions differ regarding what is "correct", and that opinion is influenced by what they've experienced and come to consider "normal" in the past, and on choices made by various software authors and list admins (which posters and readers may not even realize were choices in the first place), and on the social "consensus" of the various lists they've been part of.

Not everyone minds direct followup.  I welcome it.  I am a competent email user who can expend the minimal effort to glance at the header, and have a modern email client that categorizes incoming mail, organizes postings and replies into threads, hides old threads until there is a followup (then shows the followup in threaded context), and allows me to ignore posters or entire threads entirely, etc... I would leave my delivery option set to send me the dupes, and then simply reply to the list posting instead of the direct copy.   Meanwhile, my inbox gets archived, including the copy directly replying to me, allowing me to contact the relevant person at a later date if I wish. (I don't archive folders into which list postings are categorized).


Joe Koberg

2011\03\02@141229 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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Bob Ammerman wrote 2011-03-02 19:12:
{Quote hidden}

If I do "Reply" I get as the To-address :
"Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <spamBeGonepiclistspamBeGonespammit.edu>"

If I do "Reply to List" I get as the To-address :
"TakeThisOuTpiclistEraseMEspamspam_OUTmit.edu"

If I do "Reply All" I get :
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public. <RemoveMEpiclistspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu>"
CC: "Bob Ammerman <rvaxxxxrmanEraseMEspam.....roaxxxnner.com>" (address slightly changed)

So for me either of "Reply" or "Reply to List" works. Same address in the
end. "Reply All" doesn't work at all...

To "other end" of my PIClist communication is the *list-server*, not
whoever sent the message I'm replying to in the first place.

Jan-Erik

2011\03\02@141338 by Herbert Graf

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On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 06:27 +1300, RussellMc wrote:
> The mailing list "reply to" behavior changed recently and it has
> started populating the CC field with the poster's address. Up until
> recently this did not happen. It MAY have been an option that has been
> changed by someone or by an upgrade or ???

FWIW I always press "Reply-All" and the CC field was not populated with
anything. I don't see different behaviour.

TTYL

2011\03\02@154059 by Olin Lathrop

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RussellMc wrote:
> The mailing list "reply to" behavior changed recently and it has
> started populating the CC field with the poster's address. Up until
> recently this did not happen. It MAY have been an option that has been
> changed by someone or by an upgrade or ???

I haven't had anyone tell my they received a CC to one of my posts, and I
have only received them from one or two posters.  One of those is known to
have used reply-all instead of reply.  I therefore don't think there is
anything wrong with the list server.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000

2011\03\02@161140 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

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Herbert Graf wrote 2011-03-02 20:13:
> On Thu, 2011-03-03 at 06:27 +1300, RussellMc wrote:
>> The mailing list "reply to" behavior changed recently and it has
>> started populating the CC field with the poster's address. Up until
>> recently this did not happen. It MAY have been an option that has been
>> changed by someone or by an upgrade or ???
>
> FWIW I always press "Reply-All" and the CC field was not populated with
> anything. I don't see different behaviour.
>
> TTYL
>


I have never used anything else then a simple "Reply".
And it has always worked no matter what mail client I'm using.

After all, it is *1 single* entity I'm communicating with,
the "PIClist", so "Reply" is the logical choice.

"Reply All" is when you *want* your mail to go to multiple
recipients, which is never the case with PIClist, for me at least.

Jan-Erik.

2011\03\02@161645 by Carl Denk

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I concur, I only use "Reply" and things have been normal for many moons, or maybe a should say a few eclipses. :)

On 3/2/2011 3:41 PM, Olin Lathrop wrote:
> RussellMc wrote:
>    
>> The mailing list "reply to" behavior changed recently and it has
>> started populating the CC field with the poster's address. Up until
>> recently this did not happen. It MAY have been an option that has been
>> changed by someone or by an upgrade or ???
>>      
> I haven't had anyone tell my they received a CC to one of my posts, and I
> have only received them from one or two posters.  One of those is known to
> have used reply-all instead of reply.  I therefore don't think there is
> anything wrong with the list server.
>
>
> ********************************************************************
> Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
> (978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.
>

2011\03\02@175558 by Richard Phillips

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Russell,

I note that you're using gmail - in which case, the links below may help explain matters.  Gmail appears to have changed its behaviour recently.

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=783a111ce040cf89&hl=en&fid=783a111ce040cf8900049ca070d2b494

http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/gmail/thread?tid=275f2ed26faf9db4

Richard


--------------------------------------------------
From: "RussellMc" <EraseMEapptechnzspamgmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2011 5:27 PM
To: "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <RemoveMEpiclistEraseMEspamEraseMEmit.edu>
Subject: [ADMIN] Changed mailing list 'reply to" behavior.

> The mailing list "reply to" behavior changed recently and it has
> started populating the CC field with the poster's address. Up until
> recently this did not happen. It MAY have been an option that has been
> changed by someone or by an upgrade or ???
>
> Russell
> -

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