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PICList Thread
'[AD] Announcing ReadyBoard-02 PIC project board'
2008\10\26@113921 by olin piclist

face picon face
Our new ReadyBoard-02 is now available for immediate shipment.  This is the
second in our series of PIC development boards for one-off projects.  The
board comes with the basic infrastructure to make a PIC run and provides
some support for specialized peripherals and debugging.

This particular ReadyBoard is targeted at implementing USB devices.  It can
be completely powered from the USB, or powered from a wide range of external
options for "self powered" USB devices.

It actually supports any of the 16F and 18F PICs in the 28 pin PDIP package,
like the 16F886, 18F2620, etc.  The flexible input power and target circuit
power makes this board useful for non-USB applications as well.

Details are at http://www.embedinc.com/products/ready02.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\10\27@080625 by Peter

picon face
Olin Lathrop <olin_piclist <at> embedinc.com> writes:
> Details are at http://www.embedinc.com/products/ready02.

correct url: http://www.embedinc.com/products/ready02

Peter



2008\10\28@063802 by olin piclist

face picon face
Peter wrote:
>> Details are at http://www.embedinc.com/products/ready02.
>
> correct url: http://www.embedinc.com/products/ready02

Both are correct and the same as far as I can tell.  I can click on either
link in your email message and get to the intended web page (yes I tried
it).


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\10\28@065306 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Mon, Oct 27, 2008 at 8:05 PM, Peter <spam_OUTplpeter2006TakeThisOuTspamyahoo.com> wrote:
> Olin Lathrop <olin_piclist <at> embedinc.com> writes:
>> Details are at http://www.embedinc.com/products/ready02.
>
> correct url: http://www.embedinc.com/products/ready02
>

Which browser are you using? Both are fine here with
Vista 32 (IE7 and Firefox 3).

Xiaofan

2008\10\28@072604 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>>> Details are at http://www.embedinc.com/products/ready02.
>>
>> correct url: http://www.embedinc.com/products/ready02
>
>Both are correct and the same as far as I can tell.  I can click
>on either link in your email message and get to the intended web
>page (yes I tried it).

It depends on the mail reader. Some will include the full stop on the end of
the first link as part of the link. Outlook Express and Windows Mail don't,
so both links work the same.

For this reason I generally tend to leave a full stop off a sentence with a
link.

2008\10\28@073429 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Alan B. Pearce
<.....Alan.B.PearceKILLspamspam@spam@stfc.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> It depends on the mail reader. Some will include the full stop on the end of
> the first link as part of the link. Outlook Express and Windows Mail don't,
> so both links work the same.

Gmail does not do that either so that it works fine as well.

Do you know which mail readers have such a problem?

Xiaofan

2008\10\28@081733 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>Gmail does not do that either so that it works fine as well.
>
>Do you know which mail readers have such a problem?


Whatever Peter used, when he reported the 'correct' link I suspect. It
appears to me to be Mozilla, as the heading says this: -

User-Agent: Loom/3.14 (http://gmane.org/)
X-Loom-IP: 85.204.224.203 (Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US;
rv:1.8.1.3) Gecko/20070309 Firefox/2.0.0.3)

But I am not an expert at picking apart email headers.

2008\10\28@090548 by Peter

picon face
Xiaofan Chen <xiaofanc <at> gmail.com> writes:

> Which browser are you using? Both are fine here with
> Vista 32 (IE7 and Firefox 3).

Nice to know that m$ mail agents "sanitize" urls. Now we know how to make urls
which cannot be followed by a m$ mail agent ? (just make a filename with a dot
at the end).

I am using firefox in a web mail interface. I suspected that Olin checked the
url before posting it but it still did not work from here so I posted the
correction. The amount of things "corrected" for us begins to scare me. For
example, I wonder what this list would look like if we would have to switch to
handwriting from today to tomorrow. I suspect it would not be pretty.

Peter


2008\10\28@094820 by Xiaofan Chen

face picon face
On Tue, Oct 28, 2008 at 9:05 PM, Peter <plpeter2006spamKILLspamyahoo.com> wrote:
> Xiaofan Chen <xiaofanc <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Which browser are you using? Both are fine here with
>> Vista 32 (IE7 and Firefox 3).
>
> Nice to know that m$ mail agents "sanitize" urls. Now we know how to make urls
> which cannot be followed by a m$ mail agent ? (just make a filename with a dot
> at the end).
>
> I am using firefox in a web mail interface.

I am also using Firefox with Gmail but got no problem. So there is nothing to
do with Microsoft here. It is your web mail server which is different.

Xiaofan

2008\10\28@094830 by olin piclist

face picon face
Peter wrote:
> Nice to know that m$ mail agents "sanitize" urls.

It's not about altering the URL but deciding how to parse it out of text
where it is not clearly deliniated.  Assuming that a trailing period is
ending the sentence the URL is in instead of being part of the URL sounds
reasonable to me.

I think there is some syntax like <...> for explicitly delimiting a URL, but
I'm not sure how official that is and how universally it's followed even if
it is, and it look ugly in any case.  For simple cases like a trailing
period, most readers should be able to handle it, and it seems like most do.
(Hopefully this won't elicit another tedious lecture about how we're all
idiots because the software we use that we didn't write and use for lots of
more important reasons isn't following some standard or other)



********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\10\28@113711 by Jon Chandler

picon face
Geez oh grief.

There is one post announcing this board, and NINE replies.  Not one of
these replies is about the board.  They are all about the placement of a
period.  I believe that most people on this list are reasonably
intelligent and should be able to deal with extraneous punctuation or
even a misplaced line break in a URL.  Any time I see more than a few
replies, I'm starting to expect childness rather than a competent
technical discussion!

Yes, some email clients may not handle some conditions correctly.  Deal
with it.

Just my opinion,

Jon

2008\10\28@114739 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


> -----Original Message-----
> From: .....piclist-bouncesKILLspamspam.....mit.edu [EraseMEpiclist-bouncesspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu] On
Behalf
> Of Olin Lathrop
> Sent: 28 October 2008 13:48
> To: Microcontroller discussion list - Public.
> Subject: Re: [AD] Announcing ReadyBoard-02 PIC project board
>
> Peter wrote:
> > Nice to know that m$ mail agents "sanitize" urls.
>
> It's not about altering the URL but deciding how to parse it out of
text
> where it is not clearly deliniated.  Assuming that a trailing period
is
> ending the sentence the URL is in instead of being part of the URL
sounds
> reasonable to me.
>
> I think there is some syntax like <...> for explicitly delimiting a
URL,
> but
> I'm not sure how official that is and how universally it's followed
even
> if
> it is, and it look ugly in any case

>From RFC3986:

"Using <> angle brackets around each URI is especially recommended as a
delimiting style for a reference that contains embedded whitespace."

<http://labs.apache.org/webarch/uri/rfc/rfc3986.html#delimiting>

Regards

Mike

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2008\10\28@121930 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
At 09:39 AM 10/26/2008, Olin Lathrop wrote:

>Our new ReadyBoard-02 is now available for immediate shipment.  This is the
>second in our series of PIC development boards for one-off projects.  The
>board comes with the basic infrastructure to make a PIC run and provides
>some support for specialized peripherals and debugging.

Nice job on the power supplies.  I particularly like the use of the
current sink level shifter (Q9) in the 12-31 Vdc SMPS section - it
looks as if will do a nice job of ensuring that the output switch
(Q5) does not receive excess gate drive.  Quick glance at the circuit
suggests that the highest Vgs the FET will see is about 14V.  Nice!

dwayne

--
Dwayne Reid   <dwaynerspamspam_OUTplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2008\10\28@125141 by olin piclist

face picon face
Dwayne Reid wrote:
> Nice job on the power supplies.  I particularly like the use of the
> current sink level shifter (Q9) in the 12-31 Vdc SMPS section - it
> looks as if will do a nice job of ensuring that the output switch
> (Q5) does not receive excess gate drive.  Quick glance at the circuit
> suggests that the highest Vgs the FET will see is about 14V.  Nice!

Thanks.  The wide range of input power options is one thing I think sets
this board apart.

The nominal gate drive on Q5 is about -11V when on.  The base of Q9 is
driven with about 5V, so R14 sees about 4.3V accross it.  That makes a
current sink of 4.3V / 750ohms = 5.7mA.  That accross R7 is about 11.5V,
which minus the B-E drop of Q6 leaves about -11V base drive on Q5.  The
resistors are only 5% and there is some variation in the original 5V drive
voltage, but there is also a lot of room with this FET.  It has a Rdson of
20mOhm at -10V and still does 35mOhm at -4.5V gate drive.  The FET's
absolute maximum allowed drive is -20V, which there is no danger of getting
anywhere near.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\10\28@132829 by Michael Rigby-Jones

picon face


> -----Original Message-----
> From: @spam@piclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu [KILLspampiclist-bouncesKILLspamspammit.edu] On
Behalf
{Quote hidden}

Deal
> with it.
>
> Just my opinion,

Threads often meander off the original topic before someone suggests
it's more appropriate for a different tag.  Deal with it.  Also my
opinion!

Mike

=======================================================================
This e-mail is intended for the person it is addressed to only. The
information contained in it may be confidential and/or protected by
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not make any use of this information, or copy or show it to any
person. Please contact us immediately to tell us that you have
received this e-mail, and return the original to us. Any use,
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No part of this message can be considered a request for goods or
services.
=======================================================================

2008\10\30@115854 by alan smith

picon face
So..back on topic...

Wondering from the group prespective, is $75 too expensive for this?

yes I know what it costs to do a board, etc....but I suppose this is not really targeted at hobby use?



     

2008\10\30@122321 by Martin

face
flavicon
face
alan smith wrote:
> So..back on topic...
>
> Wondering from the group prespective, is $75 too expensive for this?
>
> yes I know what it costs to do a board, etc....but I suppose this is not really targeted at hobby use?
>
>
>
>      

No it's not expensive - the parts may cost a few dollars but assembly
was at least twice the cost of the parts (x10 if he had it made in the
USA). Olin's not doing it for charity either.

--
Martin

2008\10\30@122429 by Jan-Erik Soderholm

face picon face
alan smith wrote:
> So..back on topic...
>
> Wondering from the group prespective, is $75 too expensive for this?
>
> yes I know what it costs to do a board, etc....but I suppose this is not really targeted at hobby use?
>
>

That's for a single board.
Or aprox $63/ea if you take 3 of them.

Anyone needing, say 10 of them for some project
might be able to save some further $'s, I guess...

From a Swedish perspective, I do not see this as *that*
expensive. Yes, it's more then a standard solderless
breadboard, but that's another target market... :-)

Jan-Erik.


2008\10\30@123454 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> Wondering from the group prespective, is $75 too expensive for this?
> yes I know what it costs to do a board, etc....but I suppose this is not really targeted at hobby use?

I think it is way too expensive for entry-level hobbyists
(teenager-electronics). For prototype and low-volume professional use it
might be a good choice.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2008\10\30@124428 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
One suggestion should you ever have to revisit that circuit again:
add a series base resistor to Q9.  That will keep your PIC 5V supply
current low whenever the high voltage input is low enough that Q9 saturates.

What I mean is: if the high voltage input drops below about (4.3V +
11.5V =~ 16V), Q9 is saturated and the 7.5mA that the emitter
resistor wants to see has to come from the PIC pin.  Putting a 4k7
resistor in series with the base of Q9 reduces the current
requirement to 1mA or less.

dwayne


At 10:51 AM 10/28/2008, Olin Lathrop wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
Dwayne Reid   <RemoveMEdwaynerTakeThisOuTspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax
http://www.trinity-electronics.com
Custom Electronics Design and Manufacturing

2008\10\30@125630 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
On Thu, 2008-10-30 at 12:22 -0400, Martin wrote:
> alan smith wrote:
> > So..back on topic...
> >
> > Wondering from the group prespective, is $75 too expensive for this?
> >
> > yes I know what it costs to do a board, etc....but I suppose this is not really targeted at hobby use?
> >
> >
> >
> >      
>
> No it's not expensive - the parts may cost a few dollars but assembly
> was at least twice the cost of the parts (x10 if he had it made in the
> USA). Olin's not doing it for charity either.

The cost is what I would expect it to be.

I don't think Olin is targeting the "poor student" market. I believe a
product like this is more targeted at those who just need to get a quick
prototype built to demonstrate whether something will work or not. For
that, $75 is peanuts due to the time savings alone.

A product like this would probably also be good for building a very
small run of "customer demos", enough to get the customer going, while
the final real PCB design is made.

TTYL

2008\10\30@141316 by Mongol Herdsman

picon face
Wouter van Ooijen wrote:
>> Wondering from the group prespective, is $75 too expensive for this?
>> yes I know what it costs to do a board, etc....but I suppose this is not really targeted at hobby use?
>
> I think it is way too expensive for entry-level hobbyists
> (teenager-electronics). For prototype and low-volume professional use it
> might be a good choice.

It's okay for entry-level hobbyists in my opinion. Comparing to
cheapest on the market it's only a couple of Big Macs and Cola extra
price. The free unlimited (almost) consultancy worth it.

2008\10\30@145755 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> It's okay for entry-level hobbyists in my opinion. Comparing to
> cheapest on the market it's only a couple of Big Macs and Cola extra
> price.

Cheapest on the market is a solderless breadboard, a bare PIC with
build-in resonator, an 7805, a wall-wart and a serial-port-wiggler
programmer. It takes time and probably a lot of sweat and frustration to
get that working, but it is way cheaper than Olin's (or most other)
boards. But that's what a cash-starved 14-y will consider the alternative.

Don't take me wrong, it is (probably, I did not take a close look) a
very good design.

--

Wouter van Ooijen

-- -------------------------------------------
Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl
consultancy, development, PICmicro products
docent Hogeschool van Utrecht: http://www.voti.nl/hvu

2008\10\30@182649 by David Meiklejohn

face
flavicon
face
>> It's okay for entry-level hobbyists in my opinion. Comparing to
>> cheapest on the market it's only a couple of Big Macs and Cola extra
>> price.
>
> Cheapest on the market is a solderless breadboard, a bare PIC with
> build-in resonator, an 7805, a wall-wart and a serial-port-wiggler
> programmer. It takes time and probably a lot of sweat and frustration to
> get that working, but it is way cheaper than Olin's (or most other)
> boards. But that's what a cash-starved 14-y will consider the alternative.

Hey, for a PIC, you don't even need the 7805 and wall-wart - unregulated
batteries will do!  Of course, mains is always cheaper in the long run...
Back when I was a cash-starved 14-yo, I built myself a simple (linear! -
this was 30 years ago) regulated power supply - which saw a lot of use in
the next few years.

Back to topic - now that I'm a hobbyist with much more money to spend, I
would certainly consider a quality development board.  Assuming there are
more people out there like me, there is a market for this.


David Meiklejohn
http://www.gooligum.com.au

2008\10\30@182835 by alan smith

picon face
good responses.  The reason I ask is I worked on a board design, and it sent out to a few prospective users...granted it was not a dev board like this, but more of a remote sensor application and could be geared toward robotics or such.  I was told that even at $59, programmed with all the code, it was too expensive.  Who knows...the project died after that from lack of interest from the client.

Makes me curious how many Olin is selling, but I doubt he would share that information (dont blame him for not wanting to)


--- On Thu, 10/30/08, Herbert Graf <spamBeGonemailinglist4spamBeGonespamfarcite.net> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> --

2008\10\30@203755 by olin piclist

face picon face
alan smith wrote:
> Wondering from the group prespective, is $75 too expensive for this?

$75 doesn't even buy two hours of technician time.  Then there's getting all
the parts, which takes time whether you do it for this project or did it a
while ago just to have them in stock.  Even a good technician would be hard
pressed to wire up something like that, or even just the part you need for
your particular project in 2 hours.  And the result of that wouldn't be a
low-noise four layer board with a complete ground plane and a nice place to
put your target circuit with ground a various power all just there, and
you'd probably be more worried there was a mistake in the infrastructure if
things didn't work right.  Don't even think about a working USB interface
for many times that cost.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\10\30@204950 by olin piclist

face picon face
Martin wrote:
> No it's not expensive - the parts may cost a few dollars but assembly
> was at least twice the cost of the parts (x10 if he had it made in the
> USA). Olin's not doing it for charity either.

Actually Djula made them in Novi Sad, and he did a very nice job by the way.
Yes I'm making a profit on these.  The markup is not outrageous, though that
is really immaterial to a buyer.  A buyer should see that between parts,
labor, and having it all ready and knowing the design works, it's rather
cheaper than the alternatives.

If I hadn't designed this "on the side" and wanted access to the finished
boards myself, it would be impossible to make a business case for these
things.  It would take more boards than I expect to ever sell to pay back
all the engineering time if I were to account for it in dollars.  We found
the original ReadyBoard very useful for our own purposes, and we used up the
first three prototypes of the ReadyBoard02 on customer projects and one-offs
before the first production run was completed and wished we had more.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\10\30@205625 by olin piclist

face picon face
Dwayne Reid wrote:
> One suggestion should you ever have to revisit that circuit again:
> add a series base resistor to Q9.  That will keep your PIC 5V supply
> current low whenever the high voltage input is low enough that Q9
> saturates.

Even if the collector of Q9 is disconnected, the current draw from the PIC
pin would be only about 6m, which is well within what the PIC can do.  The
input voltage would also have to be below spec such that little current is
coming thru R7.  Adding a resistor in series with the base of Q9 won't help
in-spec case, but will soften the edges reducing efficiency.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

2008\10\31@185327 by Bob Axtell

face picon face
Exactly. We am looking closely at them for commercial work.

Overall nice job, BTW, Olin.

--Bob

On Thu, Oct 30, 2008 at 5:37 PM, Olin Lathrop <olin_piclistEraseMEspam.....embedinc.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2008\10\31@204658 by SM Ling

picon face
> Exactly. We am looking closely at them for commercial work.
>
> Overall nice job, BTW, Olin.
>
Agreed.  For development is excellent.  For small volume commercial
uses, it could be better that there is rectangle box for users to put
in their own part number and identification but do show trace of
source information.

Ling SM

2008\10\31@204743 by SM Ling

picon face
>> Overall nice job, BTW, Olin.
>>
> Agreed.  For development is excellent.  For small volume commercial
> uses, it could be better that there is rectangle box for users to put
> in their own part number and identification but do show trace of
> source information.
>

I meant to say, do NOT show trace of the source.


'[AD] Announcing ReadyBoard-02 PIC project board'
2008\11\01@094435 by olin piclist
face picon face
SM Ling wrote:
> Agreed.  For development is excellent.

Thanks.

> For small volume commercial
> uses, it could be better that there is rectangle box for users to put
> in their own part number and identification but do show trace of
> source information.

The board comes with rubber feet in the corners, but there are also holes
there for mounting in a box or chassis or whatever.  The rubber feet are
adhesive and can be pried of with plyers pretty easily.  The holes are sized
for #40-40 machine screws, and I'm sure there is a metric size that would
work with them too.  The areas around the holes is deliberately kept clear
of parts and traces on both sides of the board out to a reasonable screw
head or washer radius.


********************************************************************
Embed Inc, Littleton Massachusetts, http://www.embedinc.com/products
(978) 742-9014.  Gold level PIC consultants since 2000.

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