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'[AD]: Add USB to your product in 10 minutes.'
2001\11\21@153557 by Don McKenzie

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New 19-Nov-2001
Add USB to your product in 10 minutes.
http://www.dontronics.com/giga.html

Don McKenzie    spam_OUTdonTakeThisOuTspamdontronics.com      http://www.dontronics.com

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2001\11\21@175757 by John Hansen

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So suppose you were going to design a device that would hook to a PC USB
port using this product.  Wouldn't a device driver for the USB device be
required?  Is that supplied with the unit?

John Hansen


At 07:20 AM 11/22/01 +1100, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\11\21@180923 by Don McKenzie

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John Hansen wrote:
>
> So suppose you were going to design a device that would hook to a PC USB
> port using this product.  Wouldn't a device driver for the USB device be
> required?  Is that supplied with the unit?

> >Add USB to your product in 10 minutes.
> >http://www.dontronics.com/giga.html

with the unit John.
Based on the FTDI FT8U232AM Rev 2 silicon.
Full data sheets, schematics, application notes, and drivers are
available, so this is great for anyone wanting to get that special
project running from a USB port.

see:
http://www.dontronics.com/usb_232.html
for links to the data sheets.
the usb to rs-232 production units shown on the above page, are just
coming out of the factory now.

I hope to have individual serial and parallel chips early next week.

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2001\11\21@190546 by Bob Blick

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On Wed, 21 Nov 2001, John Hansen wrote:

> So suppose you were going to design a device that would hook to a PC USB
> port using this product.  Wouldn't a device driver for the USB device be
> required?  Is that supplied with the unit?

The chip it's based on is very very nice and support is also nice. Also it
has native support under Linux(kernel 2.4 and above). Appears as an RS232
port to the system. I've been using adapter cables using this chip and
it's my favorite(even MPLAB will run a Picstart+ off a USB port with it!).

Way to go, Don!

Cheers,

Bob

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2001\11\22@113401 by kevin palmer

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I havn't use this board but i have used the chip, Its dead easy to use , the
pc just sees it as a serial poart so you can access it with hyperterm or
mscomm in VB

Kevin

Don McKenzie wrote:

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2001\11\22@194612 by Don McKenzie

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Bob Blick wrote:

> The chip it's based on is very very nice and support is also nice. Also it
> has native support under Linux(kernel 2.4 and above). Appears as an RS232
> port to the system. I've been using adapter cables using this chip and
> it's my favorite(even MPLAB will run a Picstart+ off a USB port with it!).
>
> Way to go, Don!

I had several people on the list ask me to let them know when I had the
chips in stock.
Just arrived, both the serial FT8U232AM and the parallel FT8U245AM.

And there will be a general I/O board with smarts (based on a scenix
chip) available shortly also, which provides 24 programmable I/O lines
from the USB BUS. Will sell for around US$55 retail. Optional firmware will drive servos
and measure and generate frequencies up to several MHz. Many more tricks
possible with this board. I²C bus and Dallas IButton bus also quite
easy.
But give me a week or two to get up to speed with prices/pdf's etc.
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2001\11\22@223609 by Josh Koffman

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Are these chips bus powered? Do they provide a means to power your
project from the bus too?

Josh

Don McKenzie wrote:
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2001\11\22@225946 by Bob Blick

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>Are these chips bus powered? Do they provide a means to power your
>project from the bus too?

Yes, they are powered from the USB bus. It's four wires - two are the bus
and then there's +5 and ground.

There are companies that sell USB-powered lights for illuminating your
laptop keyboard :-)

-Bob

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2001\11\22@231622 by David VanHorn

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>
>There are companies that sell USB-powered lights for illuminating your
>laptop keyboard :-)

I have one of those.  Very nice on long flights.  White LED, so it's pretty
efficient.

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2001\11\22@231822 by Don McKenzie

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Josh Koffman wrote:
>
> Are these chips bus powered? Do they provide a means to power your
> project from the bus too?

re http://www.dontronics.com/giga.html
Basically yes, and yes.

I don't have the specs in front of me Josh, but looking at the general
power info in Jan Axelson's "USB Compete Book" a device requiring 100 ma
is fine, something that needs 500ma will depend on the PC power supply,
ie: is it a notebook?, and if it is a hub, is it self powered?

So, a sensible drain, such as the juice required by a low voltage PIC
programmer or similar, would be fine.

After all, the USB bus now powers cameras and many other devices.
I know other will have a better idea than me on this.

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2001\11\22@232832 by David VanHorn

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At 03:16 PM 11/23/01 +1100, Don McKenzie wrote:
>Josh Koffman wrote:
> >
> > Are these chips bus powered? Do they provide a means to power your
> > project from the bus too?
>
>re http://www.dontronics.com/giga.html
>Basically yes, and yes.
>
>I don't have the specs in front of me Josh, but looking at the general
>power info in Jan Axelson's "USB Compete Book" a device requiring 100 ma
>is fine, something that needs 500ma will depend on the PC power supply,
>ie: is it a notebook?, and if it is a hub, is it self powered?

Half an amp is all you get, from a powered hub.
I don't know the number for an unpowered one.

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2001\11\22@234603 by Randy Glenn

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100ma from an unpowered hub, I think.

-Randy Glenn

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{Original Message removed}

2001\11\23@020837 by Josh Koffman

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Hi Don. So are the power lines from the bus brought out to a header on
the module?

Josh

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2001\11\23@022635 by Don McKenzie

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Josh Koffman wrote:
>
> Hi Don. So are the power lines from the bus brought out to a header on
> the module?

The module is set up so that it fits a 32 pin wide type jedec pinout,
and all signals appear on these pins including +5V and ground.

Full data sheets, schematics, application notes, and drivers are
available from the links at: http://www.dontronics.com/giga.html

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2001\11\23@111726 by Bond, Peter

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> There are companies that sell USB-powered lights for illuminating your
> laptop keyboard :-)

And phone chargers - which has been very useful.  No need for a bulky
wall-wart, just plug it into a USB socket...  Which, if you're running NT4,
at least gives *some* use for the things.

Peter
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2001\11\24@014631 by Kathy Quinlan

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> >Are these chips bus powered? Do they provide a means to power your
> >project from the bus too?
>
> Yes, they are powered from the USB bus. It's four wires - two are the bus
> and then there's +5 and ground.
>
> There are companies that sell USB-powered lights for illuminating your
> laptop keyboard :-)


Also USB phone rechargers :o) which makes me think we can pull a fair amount
of power out of the USB port :o)

Regards,

Kat.
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2001\11\24@022648 by Chris Carr

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To summarise the specification each output is capable of supplying
500mA at 5 volts protected by a self resetting fuse or other device.

A hub which has it's own power supply should be capable of supplying
500mA out of each of it's 4 outputs. However, when purchasing a hub
check that the power supply can output 2 Amps, some manufacturers
save money by bundling a smaller power supply.

If a hub is being powered from a previous hub then the 500mA is divided
between the hub controller and the 4 output ports which is where the 100mA
comes from. Actually the current does not have to be equally divided
provided the total current drawn from the feeding hub does not exceed 500mA.

Regards
Chris Carr

{Original Message removed}

2001\11\24@023251 by Jean-Michel Howland

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>> Yes, they are powered from the USB bus. It's four wires - two are the bus
>> and then there's +5 and ground.
>>
>> There are companies that sell USB-powered lights for illuminating your
>> laptop keyboard :-)
>
>
>Also USB phone rechargers :o) which makes me think we can pull a fair amount
>of power out of the USB port :o)

Universal Serial Bus System Architecure by Don Anderson states the following:

Current Budget

A fully rated port must be able to provide five units of current (500ma) to
the attached device.  Self-powered hubs (including the root hub) having
their own local power supply can provide the maximum rated power to each
port.  However, bus-powered hubs have only the bus power that they receive
from the upstream cable to distribute to all of their USB ports.  This can
severely limit the amount of current that is available for USB devices that
attach to bus-powered hub ports.  The minimum current available at a port
is 100ma.

Regards
Jean-Michel.

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2001\11\25@150327 by Don McKenzie

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Further to what I mentioned in my origional posting:

New 26-Nov-2001
USBIO24: USB to 24 TTL I/O Signals:
This module combines the power of USB and an Ubicom SX48. The module
offers 3 x 8 bit programmable I/O ports
Supplied firmware allows the ports to be individually pin programmed as
inputs or outputs. Supplied software allow you to access the ports
directly from a DLL or as a virtual serial port with a simple command
protocol. Firmware can be developed for this module for application
specific tasks.

http://www.dontronics.com/giga.html

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2001\11\29@162552 by Brandon Fosdick

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Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> Josh Koffman wrote:
> >
> > Are these chips bus powered? Do they provide a means to power your
> > project from the bus too?
>
> re http://www.dontronics.com/giga.html
> Basically yes, and yes.
>
> I don't have the specs in front of me Josh, but looking at the general
> power info in Jan Axelson's "USB Compete Book" a device requiring 100 ma
> is fine, something that needs 500ma will depend on the PC power supply,
> ie: is it a notebook?, and if it is a hub, is it self powered?
>
> So, a sensible drain, such as the juice required by a low voltage PIC
> programmer or similar, would be fine.
>
> After all, the USB bus now powers cameras and many other devices.
> I know other will have a better idea than me on this.

The specs aren't completely clear, but they mention something about 60mA for
"user applications". Does that mean that my PIC et al can only use 60mA? That's
just barely enough for my USB-CAN adapter. I was hoping for a little more
breathing room. What happened to the 500mA limit?

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2001\11\29@184931 by Gerhard Fiedler

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At 15:42 11/29/2001 -0500, Brandon Fosdick wrote:
>The specs aren't completely clear, but they mention something about 60mA for
>"user applications". Does that mean that my PIC et al can only use 60mA?
>That's
>just barely enough for my USB-CAN adapter. I was hoping for a little more
>breathing room. What happened to the 500mA limit?

Seems to me that these 60mA are the 100mA /minimum/ that a USB port must be
able to provide, minus whatever the module itself needs (the USB chip's
specs say 50mA max). If you have a USB port upstream that is able to
provide more (like the 500mA max of the USB spec), you have 450mA for your
application circuit.

So what your app can use depends on the port it is connected to.

ge

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2001\11\29@192501 by Brandon Fosdick

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Gerhard Fiedler wrote:
>
> At 15:42 11/29/2001 -0500, Brandon Fosdick wrote:
> >The specs aren't completely clear, but they mention something about 60mA for
> >"user applications". Does that mean that my PIC et al can only use 60mA?
> >That's
> >just barely enough for my USB-CAN adapter. I was hoping for a little more
> >breathing room. What happened to the 500mA limit?
>
> Seems to me that these 60mA are the 100mA /minimum/ that a USB port must be
> able to provide, minus whatever the module itself needs (the USB chip's
> specs say 50mA max). If you have a USB port upstream that is able to
> provide more (like the 500mA max of the USB spec), you have 450mA for your
> application circuit.
>
> So what your app can use depends on the port it is connected to.

That makes sense. I'll probably be using it with a laptop or desktop most of the
time so it should work fine. Might be a little tight with a PDA though.

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'[AD]: Add USB to your product in 10 minutes.'
2001\12\02@085111 by Edson Brusque
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Hello Gerhard,

> That makes sense. I'll probably be using it with a laptop or desktop most
of the
> time so it should work fine. Might be a little tight with a PDA though.

   I've been looking for PDAs with USB ports with no sucess. The new ones
from Palm have client USB (not host) on its proprietary connector. What PDA
you pretend to use on your project?

   Best regards,

   Busque

-----------------------------------
Edson Brusque
Research and Development
C.I.Tronics Lighting Designers Ltda
Blumenau  -  SC  -  Brazil
http://www.citronics.com.br
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2001\12\02@091643 by Gerhard Fiedler

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Actually, that was Brandon Fosdick who wants to use the PDA.

At 11:40 12/02/2001 -0200, Edson Brusque wrote:
>Hello Gerhard,
>
> > That makes sense. I'll probably be using it with a laptop or desktop most
>of the
> > time so it should work fine. Might be a little tight with a PDA though.
>
>     I've been looking for PDAs with USB ports with no sucess. The new ones
>from Palm have client USB (not host) on its proprietary connector. What PDA
>you pretend to use on your project?

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2001\12\02@094021 by Edson Brusque

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Hello,

> Actually, that was Brandon Fosdick who wants to use the PDA.

   ops, sorry...

   Best regards,

   Brusque

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2001\12\02@144939 by Brandon Fosdick

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Edson Brusque wrote:
>
> Hello Gerhard,
>
> > That makes sense. I'll probably be using it with a laptop or desktop most
> of the
> > time so it should work fine. Might be a little tight with a PDA though.
>
>     I've been looking for PDAs with USB ports with no sucess. The new ones
> from Palm have client USB (not host) on its proprietary connector. What PDA
> you pretend to use on your project?

I was hoping that I would be able to find a PDA to do what I want. :)
And for some reason I thought the iPAQ was a host, but I was wrong.

Looks like its time to start another open source PDA project. Yes, I've seen the
Agenda, not too impressed.

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2001\12\02@160731 by Josh Koffman

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> >     I've been looking for PDAs with USB ports with no sucess. The new ones
> > from Palm have client USB (not host) on its proprietary connector.

Has anyone here done any devoplment on the Palm? I'm looking to write up
a simple program, but I'm not great with programming. Any ideas for
resources?

Thanks,

Josh
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2001\12\02@173037 by Brandon Fosdick

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Josh Koffman wrote:
>
> > >     I've been looking for PDAs with USB ports with no sucess. The new ones
> > > from Palm have client USB (not host) on its proprietary connector.
>
> Has anyone here done any devoplment on the Palm? I'm looking to write up
> a simple program, but I'm not great with programming. Any ideas for
> resources?

I signed up for their developer program, but haven't had a chance to do anything
yet. When I signed up the program was free and they were offering discounts on
Palms. If you develop on *nix they have a set of add-ons for gcc that allow for
cross-compiling. I don't remember what kind of windows stuff is available.
Looked like there's plenty of documentation avaiable though.

http://www.palm.com/developers/ for more info.

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2001\12\02@210533 by Dale Botkin

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On Sun, 2 Dec 2001, Josh Koffman wrote:

> > >     I've been looking for PDAs with USB ports with no sucess. The new ones
> > > from Palm have client USB (not host) on its proprietary connector.
>
> Has anyone here done any devoplment on the Palm? I'm looking to write up
> a simple program, but I'm not great with programming. Any ideas for
> resources?

Join the Palm Developer Program (free, on their website) and you can
download Code Warrior Lite for Palm (free, from their website) that gives
you a complete Windows IDE and C/C++ compiler/debugger/sim for the Palm.

Dale

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2001\12\03@001625 by Josh Koffman

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Thanks Dale and Brandon. I guess I finally have to learn C. Blah...I
wish there was an easier way.

Josh
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Dale Botkin wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\12\03@002336 by Alexandre Domingos F. Souza

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>Has anyone here done any devoplment on the Palm? I'm looking to write up
>a simple program, but I'm not great with programming. Any ideas for
>resources?

       NSBasic. Simple as Visual Basic.


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2001\12\03@003009 by David VanHorn

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At 03:20 AM 12/3/01 -0200, Alexandre Domingos F. Souza wrote:
> >Has anyone here done any devoplment on the Palm? I'm looking to write up
> >a simple program, but I'm not great with programming. Any ideas for
> >resources?
>
>         NSBasic. Simple as Visual Basic.

Beware, it has some limitations.
It's rather large, and not very speedy, (it's interpreted)
I did a printer demo project recently on it.
It doesn't suck,

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2001\12\03@004145 by Glenn Mitchell

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Here are couple pages that list what languages are out there.

http://tangentsoft.net/palmfaq/
http://www.nicholson.com/rhn/pilot/

Glenn Mitchell.

{Original Message removed}

2001\12\03@022708 by Dale Botkin

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On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Josh Koffman wrote:

> Thanks Dale and Brandon. I guess I finally have to learn C. Blah...I
> wish there was an easier way.

It's really not that bad.  I did it last spring...  takes a little
learning, but once you get going you can write code that (at least for me)
is much easier to figure out if you go back and look at it after a while.
I know I'm doing a lot more now that I've started writing in C, and it's
also made learning other lanuages MUCH easier - like PHP and stuff,
they're mostly derived from C and C++.

Dale

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2001\12\03@131625 by Jay Hanson

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>Has anyone here done any devoplment on the Palm? I'm looking to write up
>a simple program, but I'm not great with programming. Any ideas for
>resources?

I have the cheap version of AppForge (~$65?).  You write your Palm programs
in VB6. No learning curve if you know VB6.

Jay

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2001\12\03@151159 by Josh Koffman

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Can you suggest any resources? I dont' really want to use C for the pic,
but I guess I will need to for the Palm. Thanks everyone else for the
alternate language suggestions, but it looks like I'm tied to C becuase
of an SDK I need to use.

Thanks,

Josh

Dale Botkin wrote:
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2001\12\03@175004 by Dale Botkin

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I bought the Kernighan & Ritchie book ("The C Programming Language"), and
like it fine.  Others have said it's not very good for learning, but I
must be warped.  I've had good luck with the Sams "Teach Yourself
Neurosurgery in 24 Hours" type of books, have one for C++ that I didi't
get past Hour 6 with but that was my fault, not the book's.

I have also found several C tutorials around the Web of varying quality.

Dale
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On Mon, 3 Dec 2001, Josh Koffman wrote:

> Can you suggest any resources? I dont' really want to use C for the pic,
> but I guess I will need to for the Palm. Thanks everyone else for the
> alternate language suggestions, but it looks like I'm tied to C becuase
> of an SDK I need to use.

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2001\12\03@202245 by Josh Koffman

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Heh, Ironically learning VB6 is also on my to do list for another
project :)

Josh

Jay Hanson wrote:
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2001\12\03@203944 by Josh Koffman

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Thanks Dale. I will try to get that book at the library. Any links to
those tutorials? Basically my program shouldn't be too hard, basically
it is a user interface for an SDK. So I figure all it really needs to do
is detect the button pushes on screen, and trigger the appropriate
action, which is semi well documented by the maker of the SDK.
Unfortunately I've forgotten all the C I once knew :)

Josh

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2001\12\03@222209 by Robert A. LaBudde

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At 08:14 AM 12/3/01 -1000, Jay wrote:
> >Has anyone here done any devoplment on the Palm? I'm looking to write up
> >a simple program, but I'm not great with programming. Any ideas for
> >resources?
>
>I have the cheap version of AppForge (~$65?).  You write your Palm programs
>in VB6. No learning curve if you know VB6.

Where do you get this $65 version? The cheapest license available on their
website is $499.

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