> I'm getting geared (hah!) up to offer a small (6"x6" travel) CNC mill with a
> "brains on board" three axis controller and custom software that accepts
> gerbers or HPGL. The only requirement is for an old Windows BOX (e.g. P1)
> and a power supply.
>
> The controller comes assembled and tested with screw terminals for the motor
> connections, and optionally for the power supply (most users will just use
> the supplied HD power connector for direct connect to a PC power supply,
> power resistor included to ensure startup). An onboard regulator option is
> also available. The controller talks to the PC via RS232 and interprets
> patch commands rather than step / direction so the motors move steadily,
> quickly and ramp for maximum speed. Here is a picture of one of the alpha
> units:
> http://www.massmind.org/images/www/quickstep/quickstep-view3-small.jpg
>
> The prototype and alpha PCBs passed with flying colors and the first beta
> run (18 PCBs) were ordered today. The software is ready for beta testing.
> The last step is purchasing, testing and distributing the actual mill.
>
> I'm talking now with a gent who makes a very nice set of slides and spindles
> to see about a package price and distributor agreement but if anyone has
> other suggestions, please let me know.
>
> THE PICTURE:
> Imagine the box arriving in the mail. It has the physical mill, the
> controller and a CD. You unpack it, plug in a HD cable from an old PC power
> supply, connect the controller card to your PC's RS232 port, load the
> software, open a gerber, slip in a PCB blank and a few minutes later, your
> circuit is made manifest!
>
> If that isn't worth $500, I don't know what is!
>
> THE PROBLEMS:
> Having said all that, there are many places where this can still go wrong:
>
> 1) I'm still not totally sure that this mill will work out or that the
> mechanical part can be make effectively for my price goal. I may have to
> raise the price. This controller works just fine. If you can produce little
> PCB mills for something like $300 (your cost) with better specs, please let
> me know:
> spamBeGonejamesnewtonspamBeGonemassmind.org?subject=LOOK_AT_MY_MILL
>
> 2) I need beta users who are willing to purchase the system components at
> cost and spend time testing, helping to working out bugs, and suggesting
> better ideas for this or future versions. The controller and software in kit
> form costs about $30 (but will be made available only as an assembled unit
> eventually) the mill I'm currently looking at costs about $450 WITHOUT the
> three steppers (spindle motor is included) and must be assembled (attach X
> and Y slides and mount, mount Z slide, add 3 medium small unipolar stepper
> motors, wire power to spindle) before use. The PC and power supply will also
> be needed.
>
> I'm not sure anyone will be willing to do that at this point... But I really
> don't want to go forward before I get that feedback and I can't afford (at
> this point) to underwrite that effort. If no one comes forward, I'll have to
> save my pennies until I can go it alone.
> TakeThisOuTjamesnewtonEraseMEspam_OUTmassmind.org?subject=I_WILL_BETA
>
> 3) I'm not sure that a small unit like this will serve the needs of enough
> people to make the volume necessary to continue production. Please vote?
> RemoveMEjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTmassmind.org?subject=6x6_is_OK> > jamesnewtonEraseME.....massmind.org?subject=6x6_is_too_small
>
> COMMENTS:
> No, this doesn't compete with the Linistepper. The Lini is for users who
> have the mechanical and some electrical skill (electronics skill not really
> required) and need way to get high resolution, smooth motion at a minimum
> cost but don't have the time, desire, or ability to develop and program a
> high resolution, smooth stepper controller. You can buy the boards or full
> kit from me for less than the cost of a digikey parts order.
> http://www.piclist.com/linistepper Linisteppers may be available as an extra
> cost option to this mill for increased resolution / accuracy. Also, the Lini
> is OPEN SOURCE benefits the PICList and is really more of a service for EE
> types than a commercial product.
>
> This controller will NOT be open source, no design or engineering details
> will be available (not that it would be hard to duplicate for any PICList
> member) and will NOT be a PICList... Thing... In any way. Well, it does have
> an '877 on it but that's all the PICness it has. The application to
> controller command protocol will probably be documented so that *nix people
> can write applications to run it as needed. But by and large, it isn't for
> us, it's for small shops who want a quick, dirty, cheap CNC mill.
>
> Why? A) I want one <GRIN> B) I think the designer of this board, the
> software, and what ever mill I end up with deserve some good marketing,
> representation, and customer support assistance so that they can concentrate
> on coming up with other, interesting designs, C) I hope to make enough to be
> able to devote more time to my web sites (all of them), family, and urban
> farm and less time commuting to the day job.
>
> Your advice, help, suggestions, criticisms, encouragement, and pre or beta
> orders <GRIN> very much appreciated.
>
> ---
> James Newton, massmind.org Knowledge Archiver
> EraseMEjamesmassmind.org 1-619-652-0593 fax:1-208-279-8767
> All the engineering secrets worth knowing:
> http://techref.massmind.org What do YOU know?
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
> RemoveMEpiclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu
>

> All great questions that remain to be answered. As I said, the mechanical
> part is the last mile.
>
> I'm thinking the Z axis will only be a couple inches. Enough for drilling
> PCB holes.
>
> As far as torque goes, I would like to be able to at least cut through
> thin
> metals for art, jewelry, and through softer materials for small gears,
> etc... But that depends more on the spindle and the cutting bit than the
> motors. It might not be very fast when cutting like that, but as long as
> the
> bit doesn't catch, jump or vibrate and the spindle bearing keeps it smooth,
> we should be ok.

> On Jul 20, 2004, at 3:30 PM, James Newton, Host wrote:
>
>> As I said, the mechanical part is the last mile.
>>
> As an owner of an LPKF (which is not really a mill, since it doesn't
> really have z-axis control), I found the "mechanical part" depressingly
> ... complex.  well, not complex, exactly, but it sure looks like you
> need a LOT of mechanical rigidity you need to achieve the end results
> that LPKF claims their machine can do.  Lots of thick pieces of metal,
> and mass...  Now, a non-PCB oriented machine is still interesting.
> Maybe...  But aren't there a fair number of CNC-convertable mini-mills
> in about that price range?  harborfreight has
> www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=39743
> for about $400. and while the cheap chinese tools have a mixed
> reputation, they're probably a better starting point than scratch...
>
> BillW
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
> (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics
>
>
>

> M. Adam Davis wrote:
>
>> Alternately there's a 4"x4" compound sliding table for $50.
>> www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=3135
>> For small circuit boards this is a cheap start to what's being built
>> here.  Mount it to a drill press, add steppers and away you go.  Buy
>> two, mount them 90 degrees from each other and put the motor on one, the
>> work piece on the other.  Instant $100 4" x 4" x 4" milling machine
>> (well, not including price of motor and spindle, but a $50 dremel will
>> do for this kind of light work).  Takes up one cubic foot of table
>> space.
>>
>> -Adam
>
>
> What do you think the backlash is on a table that cheap?
> I may buy one.
>
> --
> --
> Martin Klingensmith
> http://infoarchive.net/
> http://nnytech.net/
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
> (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics
>
>
>

> No, it is specific to this product. Remember, the point is to provide a
> very, simple, out of the box, minimal system for NON-techies.
>
> And the controller is ready (I even have one to sell right now, although it
> is in kit form) but the machine is still missing in action.
>
> HELP! Anybody out there that can make a minimal, small, but quality minimill
> for around $500?
>
> ---
> James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
> RemoveMEjamesnewtonEraseMEspam_OUTpiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
> http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
> PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com
>
>
>

>No, it is specific to this product. Remember, the point is to provide a
>very, simple, out of the box, minimal system for NON-techies.
>
>And the controller is ready (I even have one to sell right now, although it
>is in kit form) but the machine is still missing in action.
>
>HELP! Anybody out there that can make a minimal, small, but quality minimill
>for around $500?
>
>---
>James Newton: PICList webmaster/Admin
>jamesnewtonspampiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
>http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
>PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com
>
>
>
>
>

> James Newton, Host wrote:
>
> >If you want to do it, I'll buy you the machine, pay some for you time and
> >parts (negotiated), and then pay to have you ship it or if you decide to,
> >you can beta the machine yourself (then we can establish an account and not
> >be sending money back and forth except once a month or so if you like). The
> >point is, you get paid for what you do (at least some) and you don't invest
> >and even if you keep the thing, it doesn't cost you any more than what it
> >would to build the thing yourself. If you beta the thing, and you're not
> >happy with it in the end, as long as I can find someone else who wants to
> >continue with it, I'll buy it back from you.
> >
> >
> >
> That's an offer that's too good to resist...  Hmmm....
>
> The nice thing about the project you are requesting to have done is that
> it's self bootstrapping - The machine itself can be used to form the
> necessary bits from aluminum stock to adapt the steppers.  Then plop on
> some steppers and the machine can make better ones - hundreds a day if
> needed.
>
> I'll go to my local Harbor Freight store tonight and see if it'll be
> overly difficult to make adaptors.  Then I'll go over my schedule for
> the next few weeks.  If you don't get any better offers then I'll take
> you up on it.
>
> -Adam

> DAMN! How did I miss that! Yes, it could be the answer. Unless I hear better
> in the next few days, I'm going to order one.
>
> Now, I do NOT want to do the "convert to CNC" thing myself. I'm not a
> production person. I need someone who will unscrew the handles, mfgr an
> adapter to attach stepper motors, wire and drop ship the units. Any
> interest? Located in SoCal would be best.
>
> Keep in mind, we are not talking about high power, high torque, super high
> accuracy connections. I have seen several machines that used nothing more
> than a short bit of rubber hose and a pair of hose clamps and they worked
> just fine.
>
> As to a business plan, I don't invest ahead of what my immediate needs are
> until there is a solid trend to predict from. I'm not going to spend $$$
> gearing up for large production before I have made a few "beta" machines and
> sold them (at cost) to qualified users for evaluation.
>
> If you want to do it, I'll buy you the machine, pay some for you time and
> parts (negotiated), and then pay to have you ship it or if you decide to,
> you can beta the machine yourself (then we can establish an account and not
> be sending money back and forth except once a month or so if you like). The
> point is, you get paid for what you do (at least some) and you don't invest
> and even if you keep the thing, it doesn't cost you any more than what it
> would to build the thing yourself. If you beta the thing, and you're not
> happy with it in the end, as long as I can find someone else who wants to
> continue with it, I'll buy it back from you.
>
> Ask anybody, I take good care of people. (faint burning smell of the one or
> two persons I've pissed off rising from hell to make me eat those
> words...<GRIN>) I've been waiting for years to do this but would not invest
> money I didn't have or ask others to work on promises.
>

>Adam,
>
>On Wed, 28 Jul 2004 11:40:13 -0400, M. Adam Davis wrote:
>
>
>
>>I've read through the thread, but I may still have missed the argument
>>against this mill from Harbor Freight:
>>
>>www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47158
>>$279, 1/5HP motor, 100-2000RPM, 4" x 9" table
>>If 6" travel in the Y direction was needed someone could modify the
>>table for well under $200, easily making it under the $500 mark
>>
>>
>
>I think the thing you've missed is that it's manually operated, and the whole point was to have it computer
>controlled.  It's non-trivial to convert a manual machine to accept stepper motors, and in the case of the
>machine you mention the Z-axis is not screw-driven, which makes it much harder still.  If you look at the Taig
>mills, for example, the extra cost to allow for motors is $200, and that's for them to build it with CNC-ready
>components instead of the manual ones - we would have a much harder job to do!
>
>Cheers,
>
>
>Howard Winter
>St.Albans, England
>
>--
>http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us!
>email TakeThisOuTlistservRemoveME@spam@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body
>
>
>
>
>

> The Z axis is a screw unit (it also has a hand feed like a drill press
> would have).  You can read the manual here, which has an exploded parts
> diagram: http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/47000-47999/47158.pdf
>
> In the exploded parts diagram we would be functionally replacing 3
> blocks on the machine, two of part #110, and one of #96, and the hand
> wheels.  I can see that the screw needs to be supported by these blocks
> - The screw both pulls and pushes against these blocks.  The tricky part
> is making a block that supports the screw, and still allows a stepper
> motor to be fixed to the block with the shaft attached to the screw.
>
> I didn't say that it's trivial, but it appears to me that it is easier
> and cheaper to modify this mill than it would be to build one from scratch.
>
> But I could be wrong.  I've jumped into more than one project that
> looked easier from the outside than from the inside.  Perhaps you could
> take a look at the exploded parts diagram and offer some tips?
>
> -Adam
>

> >I don't need super accuracy on this,  I would
> >probably be able to tolerate +-20thou with no problems.
>
> For that sort of accuracy I would start by looking at the slides used to
> rack mount the older type 14" disk drives, and use them as guides for a slab
> like the table from an old drill press. Driven with a set of stepper motors,
> with a bit of settling time built in, I would suspect that it would do what
> you need.
>
> I suggest those type guides, as the disk drives I am thinking of were the
> sort of device that needed two people to handle them. You should be able to
> mount the whole thing so that there is enough spring in the table to lift it
> while moving, while the punch pushes it down onto an anvil, so the guides
> don't carry the punch pressure - your looking for probably less than 10 thou
> clearance when moving.
>
> Just some thoughts.
>
>
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
> TakeThisOuTpiclist-unsubscribe-requestKILLspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu
>

> >Currently, little circles of this material are cut out with a hand punch.
> >I'm thinking it should be easy to make the punch pneumatic, and with an
> >XY table under the
>
> This is done by cutting the material into strips and the machine uses only
> one moving direction, with a pinch roller that typically pulls. If you
> don't want to cut strips first then build it on a table edge with a
> parting knife for the current 'strip' built in. The output will be the
> base material minus the current strip (which was also punched out), and
> this output is reloaded until it's too narrow.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: pic microcontroller discussion list
>[.....PICLISTEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter L. Peres
>Sent: 05 August 2004 03:21
>To: spamPICLISTspam_OUT@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [AD]: (will be) Small CNC mill, controller and
>software for $500
>
>
>>Currently, little circles of this material are cut out with a hand
>>punch. I'm thinking it should be easy to make the punch
>pneumatic, and
>>with an XY table under the
>
>This is done by cutting the material into strips and the
>machine uses only one moving direction, with a pinch roller
>that typically pulls. If you don't want to cut strips first
>then build it on a table edge with a parting knife for the
>current 'strip' built in. The output will be the base material
>minus the current strip (which was also punched out), and this
>output is reloaded until it's too narrow.
>
>Peter

>The controller is ready... I just can't seem to find anyone to try them out
>with a small CNC unit before I start advertising the combination. I really
>don't want to have to build the physical unit as well as the controller. I
>am working on my own design for one, but I don't see that being complete
>anytime soon and that has never been my intention.
>
>I want to find someone who can make a small hobby CNC mill for not a ton of
>money and sell my controller with it. I am working with a guy in Finland who
>has produced a good design for a basic unit but shipping it from their would
>be dumb so selling the plans is the only option for that unit.
>
>I currently have the driver units in kit form but no CNC machine to sell
>with them. If you have something that could be controlled with it, I would
>be happy to sell you one for $30 (my cost)
>
>--- AND THEN ---
>
>IF you build it and connected it to something and send me a picture I will
>pay you back $10 (via PayPal)
>
>If you describe the operation of the system (positive or negative) in at
>least 200 useful words, I will pay you another $10.
>
>If you send detailed pictures of something that was made with your unit
>while driven by the Quickstepper, I will send you another $10.
>
>The end result is that I will give away the unit, in kit form, to anyone who
>will actually try it.
>
>I can't send any more units out for free no matter how solid a promise I get
>that it will be tried and reported back. (Do you smell something burning?)
>
>And of course, if your CNC machine works ok with the Quickstepper and can be
>sold for a reasonable price, I will be happy to help market and resell the
>combination.
>
>Pictures and online manual are at
>http://www.quickstepper.com
>
>For anyone who might be interested, the design is simple with regard to the
>hardware, just a standard unipolar drive, no chopping, simple PC PS
>connector, TTL level serial (use an adapter
>http://www.piclist.com/io/serial/rcl1
> or just wire it up yourself with a resistor) and screw terminals for the
>stepper wires.
>
>But the software is unique. It communicates with a Windows PC over RS-232
>serial. The stepping waveforms are generated in a microcontroller; the
>Windows PC sends line segments to the microcontroller, and the
>microcontroller turns a request to "move in a straight line 0.100 to the
>left and 0.500 forwards" into a sequence of steps to the x and y motors.
>
>This allows us to generate precisely-timed waveforms from a Windows PC;
>Windows does not provide accurate timing, so we could not do this if we
>generated the waveforms on the PC. It allows us to drive the stepper motors
>faster, and ramp up the speed slowly instead of starting abruptly from a
>dead stop.
>
>So we get to work in Windows, and still run the motors as fast as possible,
>including ramping up and down without missing steps.
>
>Future versions will drive 3 of the linistepper units
>http://www.piclist.com/io/stepper/linistepper
> to provide fantastically smooth linear microstepping and may begin to
>support chopping for digital microstepping. Basic G-code support is also
>possible. Support for bi-polar steppers is not planned.
>
>---
>James.
>
>
>
>  
>