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PICList Thread
'[ADMIN] Sender ID'
1998\06\26@044601 by Paul BRITTON

flavicon
face
There has been some traffic on the list recently (and previously) about
being able to determine who posted a message, here's what I did......

Send a message to 'spam_OUTLISTSERVTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu', with no title, in the body of
the message put 'SET PICLIST DUAL'...this will make all Piclist messages
have 5 lines at the top that contain subject and senders name......you
can't use ReplyTo: to send a personal email back, but you can cut and
paste from the message, even if they don't use a signature line.


For other LISTSERV commands send to '.....LISTSERVKILLspamspam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu', a message
saying 'INFO REFCARD', I won't include the response here, because some
already know, and others don't care!


TTFN
Paul BRITTON


'[ADMIN] Messages Resent'
1999\07\26@123927 by Greg Wiley
picon face
Just a heads-up to the list admins.

Several of my older messages (and some
responses from others) were re-sent over
the weekend.

 -greg

1999\07\26@134725 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
It's annoying, and it'll stop eventually.  Frustrating, though.  I wish
I knew what exectly was causing this (Know the rough cause but not the
details.)

 Mark

Greg Wiley wrote:
>
> Just a heads-up to the list admins.
>
> Several of my older messages (and some
> responses from others) were re-sent over
> the weekend.
>
>   -greg


'[ADMIN] PICList Content'
1999\09\28@211648 by Eric Oliver
flavicon
face
Friends,

I've been following the debate regarding OT messages. In fact, I've been
terribly busy of late and the debate is the only thread I've been watching.
Why ? Because I care what happens to the PICLIST.  I even considered
unsubscribing to eliminate the traffic in my inbox, but can't bear to do so.
I won't always be this busy, and I hope to return to a list that is the same
as when I left it.

We live in an imperfect world.  This list is comprised of over 1800 members
at last count. On any given day, you can almost gaurantee that someone will
mess up.  Forget to put [OT] on the subject, flame because they're having a
bad day, reply publicly when they intended to reply privately, and the list
goes on.  This is life.

As humans, we seem to be driven by the need to fix things.  Trouble is,
sometimes "broken" is a matter of opinion.  I agree that the PICLIST is not
perfect and there are messages that _I_ find annoying or unnecessary too.
Know what ? I delete them. BOOM ! 1/2 second later, they're gone.

What really disturbs me is that, if we "fix" the PICLIST, we will break it.
Possibly permanently.  As an analogy, consider well meaning public
officials. How many times have we all seen this ?  A leader, or group,
perceives there is a problem in our society. So they fix it.  Trouble is,
the "fix" produces undesirable ramifications. Possibly worse than the
original problem. Rather than admit that they made a mistake, they simply
attempt to fix the new problems. Before long, they have destroyed or
rendered what they were trying to fix as useless.

Creating a newsgroup, moderating the list, or splitting the list up all will
produce negative side effects.  I'm willing to bet on it.  Valuable members
will leave the list. Valuable content will go unpublished.

So I say again. Tolerance and self restraint will cure this list. And only
you can make it happen.

P.S. Mark, you once suggested using topics like the one in my subject line
to aid in filtering. Only problem is, there's never been any official
guidlines.  If you could post some guidlines, I'll be more than happy to
follow them.

Eric

1999\09\28@214007 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
AMEN! I think we would all be happier if we exercised the delete key more
often when there is excess content that we don't want to read! I agree,that
there should be fewer WAY-OT messages,but I do not think that any radical
solution will produce a better situation than we have.

In addition, I want to BEG Bob and Tjaart not to leave the list. I have
found both of them very helpful and I feel that the piclist would not BE
the same if they leave.

Sean


At 07:48 PM 9/28/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Friends,
>
>I've been following the debate regarding OT messages. In fact, I've been
>terribly busy of late and the debate is the only thread I've been watching.
>Why ? Because I care what happens to the PICLIST.  I even considered
[SNIP]
|
| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
| Electrical Engineering Student
\--------------=----------------
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
shb7spamKILLspamcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174

1999\09\28@215521 by Peter van Hoof

flavicon
face
This list is already (on a small scale) moderated.
Didn't it surprise you that, on the last extremely off topic and religious
topic there where NO REPLY'S , at least not on the list!

(I WAS ONE OF THE POSTER'S OF A REPLY)

Peter


> Creating a newsgroup, moderating the list, or splitting the list
> up all will
> produce negative side effects.  I'm willing to bet on it.
> Valuable members
> will leave the list. Valuable content will go unpublished.

1999\09\28@235702 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 09:53 PM 9/28/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>This list is already (on a small scale) moderated.
>Didn't it surprise you that, on the last extremely off topic and religious
>topic there where NO REPLY'S , at least not on the list!

Maybe not after a while, but early on there were.  I got several of them,
to which I always replied private.

Andy

==================================================================
Eternity is only a heartbeat away - are you ready?  Ask me how!
------------------------------------------------------------------
.....andyKILLspamspam.....rc-hydros.com      http://www.rc-hydros.com     - Race Boats
EraseMEandyspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmontanadesign.com  http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics
==================================================================

1999\09\29@011033 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Nope;  Moderation specifically means that each & every message anyone
posts to the list, has to be approved by a moderator before any other
PICList members view it.

Think of it like, "Every message starts off deleted, unless one of the
moderators feels like undeleting it."

You'd know how busy the moderators were by how many messages they
released daily, in bursts when they were available online, and the huge
lags when they were busy.  It'd take about 10 people to make it work,
I'd guess?

Moderation is like customs:  An impassable choke point.  Not what *I*
want here <G>

What we have is a list full of people who (mostly) exercise
SELF-control, more or less <G>, and 2 admins who have the ability to
read all messages posted to the list eventually, and delete users who go
way out of line (I think I've deleted 2 whole users for that, maybe 3?)
- OTOH, I've deleted about 80 users at their request, when their ISP
changed (for example, userspamspam_OUTisp1.com suddenly had to re-subscribe to
@spam@userKILLspamspamnewmail.isp1a.com due to a merger, etc. - or they changed ISP's due
to an ISP closing or changing jobs - etc.)  Maybe more 'n 80;  With 2
lists, it'd be 150 deletions, give or take.  (Wild Guesses, I can go
count but'd rather not!)

 Mark

Peter van Hoof wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\09\29@055201 by Peter van Hoof

flavicon
face
Ok , then let's call the beastie by it's real name
My message was censored.

I think my reply was short, to the point, and reasonably courteous and for
the ones interested I can send it to you.

The original I replied to is archived on
www.infosite.com/%7Ejkeyzer/piclist/1999/Aug/2051.html
You will find a link to my reply , but not find the reply itself, nor any
other reply's to this very unacceptable post (to 92.4 percent of readers
anyway)

I know my message went out to the list, because I had a reply to it, not
from anyone reading the Piclist or the archive , but from the poster of the
original. I guess it was forwarded by one of the
censors/moderators/whateveryoucallit's.

And don't get me wrong, I do understand why it was done. The noise level
would have been high. Accept that this was probably the best way to deal
with this.

I wonder if there where others that posted to this thread.


Reply's in private please, enough said already.


Peter


> {Original Message removed}

1999\09\29@074040 by Max Toole

picon face
In a message dated 9/28/99 9:17:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
KILLspamericKILLspamspamKEDCOENT.COM writes:

> Friends,
>
>  I've been following the debate regarding OT messages. In fact, I've been
>  terribly busy of late and the debate is the only thread I've been watching.
>  Why ? Because I care what happens to the PICLIST.  I even considered
>  unsubscribing to eliminate the traffic in my inbox, but can't bear to do
so.
>  I won't always be this busy, and I hope to return to a list that is the
same
{Quote hidden}

will
{Quote hidden}

Well said, Eric.  I agree whole heartedly.

By the way, are you in politics?  If not, maybe you should be.  I just might
vote for you  :-)

Max

1999\09\30@190721 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Far as I know, the *list* echoed your message - you're talking about
censorship of the ARCHIVE, not the list - Infosite may've censored your
message;  The PICList admins have little say over Infosite's behavior,
AFAIK.  Bet it's still in my inbox here.

 Mark

Peter van Hoof wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}


'[admin] Re: PICList content not as bad as it appea'
1999\10\12@142956 by William K. Borsum
flavicon
face
Greetings
If the list manager supports requiring something in brackets or the mail
gets rejected, I have absolutely NO problems supporting its use.  Just need
to regularly publish guidelines for the newbies and for the regulars who
forget--I just found out about the suggested use of [admin] for list
management comments such as this.  When I signed on, there was NO
information provided on suggested list usage--just sort of had to figure
out things as I went along.

Obvious problem are people who won't use the key words in brackets
according to the guideline conventions--

I would like to chat with Mark or Jory a bit about this off-list if
possible--con su permisso.

Kelly




At 10:52 AM 10/12/99 -0300, you wrote:
>Mark,
>
>I like this. You have to FORCE people into using proper categories markers
>in the subject line. Only tell us WHEN this starts working...
>
>Regards,
>Andres Tarzia
>Technology Consultant, SMART S.A.
>e-mail: RemoveMEatarziaTakeThisOuTspamsmart.com.ar
>
>{Original Message removed}

'[Admin] PICList content not as bad as it appears -'
1999\10\12@165632 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
>Hey Mark, what is the real possibilities to implement a customized
>profile at the listserver for the list members? So one can program not
>to receive [Fluff] messages? and so on...  I think this should be a real
>"boost", since it saves traffic time at the listserv and solve forever
>this "mail filters" at member's mail engines.
>
>Wagner

Very good idea =)
then we can select what to not to have at all,
filter it in our mail programs
or looking manually.

Saving internet connection time money too :)

I also like Kelly«s idea about information message.
It have also been mentionned before, an idea about regularly sending out info to subscribers.
Or maybe the server just append an URL like http://www.piclistrules.com to end of each sent message.

my 5 oere
/Morgan
Morgans Reglerteknik, HŠllekŒs, 277 35 KIVIK, SWEDEN
  tel +46(0)414-446620, fax -70331,   spamBeGonemrtspamBeGonespaminame.com

'[admin] Re: PICList content not as bad as it appea'
1999\10\12@184637 by Simon Redwood

flavicon
picon face
Reply To: "Simon Redwood" <TakeThisOuTspredwoodEraseMEspamspam_OUTsri-net.demon.co.uk>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL37 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 927


Kelly wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Yeah fine, I have no problems with using the 'guideline conventions' if I
knew what they were that is.  I'm pretty new to the list, and have really
only noticed OT - which I presume if "OFF-TOPIC"
--
Regards,
Simon

{ ICQ#:         12229096                        }
{ Email:        RemoveMEspredwoodspamTakeThisOuTsri-net.demon.co.uk   }
{ Internet:     http://www.sri-net.demon.co.uk         }


'[Admin] PICList Administrativa'
1999\11\06@231059 by Mark Willis
flavicon
face
Folks, please refrain from HTML posts on the PICList;  Many people on
the list cannot read your posts (their browser won't READ HTML!), and
others such as myself end up squinting to try to read 2-point micro
fonts that are essentially unreadable.  Most browsers that CAN send
HTML, can be configured to send text-only messages in your address book
etc., HTML's for web pages, not really for text e-mail, I've always
thought <G>

 Mark

1999\11\07@010726 by Wagner Lipnharski

picon face
Interesting point is that Netscape defaults to send in HTML format... as
if everyone would choose to use that way.

On Netscape:
To change it, on the main MAIL screen, go to EDIT menu, Preferences,
Mail & Newsgroup, Formating, and at MESSAGE FORMATING, select the "Use
Plain Text Editor to Compose Messages".  Then at the block below, click
"Ask me what to do if the message is in HTML format, otherwise send
plain text".  Note that these changes would only being in effect at the
*next* email you send.

Or, if you want to leave it in HTML settings (only you would know the
reason, because I don't), you can temporarily set NO HTML (plain text)
for that particular message: While composing messages, you can click
OPTIONS menu and select "Plain Text Only".

Now no more excuses why still sending in HTML under Netscape... :)

Wagner Lipnharski
Free Electronics Classifieds:  http://www.ustr.net/classifieds.shtml

Mark Willis wrote:
>
> Folks, please refrain from HTML posts on the PICList;  Many people on
> the list cannot read your posts (their browser won't READ HTML!), and
> others such as myself end up squinting to try to read 2-point micro
> fonts that are essentially unreadable.  Most browsers that CAN send
> HTML, can be configured to send text-only messages in your address
book
> etc., HTML's for web pages, not really for text e-mail, I've always
> thought <G>
>
>   Mark

1999\11\07@024645 by William J. Kitchen

flavicon
face
On 6 Nov 99, at 20:08, Mark Willis wrote:

> Folks, please refrain from HTML posts on the PICList;  Many people on
> the list cannot read your posts (their browser won't READ HTML!), and
> others such as myself end up squinting to try to read 2-point micro
> fonts that are essentially unreadable.  Most browsers that CAN send
> HTML, can be configured to send text-only messages in your address book
> etc., HTML's for web pages, not really for text e-mail, I've always
> thought <G>
>
>   Mark
>

What is the <G> tag supposed to do?  It seems to be incompatible with
my mail reader's implementation of HTML. ;)


---
                                       Peace,
                                       William Kitchen
The future is ours to create.

1999\11\07@034821 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
William J. Kitchen wrote:
{Quote hidden}

The answer is, that it stands for, "Get a Rope!"  <VBEG>

 Mark

'[Admin] PICList I/O Port addressing lesson #1'
1999\11\08@204631 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Folks, the PICList has 3 "I/O Ports".  Seems I need to remind some
people how they're used.

* Posting messages to the "PICList Mail Distribution port", at
<PICListEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>, causes that message to be distributed to all
1800+ members of the PICList  (Those who don't have NoMail set),  who
then read your post and make snide comments if you posted to the wrong
address.

* Posting messages to the "PICList Administration Port", at
<EraseMEPICList-RequestspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>, causes that message to be distributed
to all admins of the PICList  {Jory + Myself, right now}, who then read
your post & try to help.

* Posting messages to the "PICList Command Input Port", at
<RemoveMELISTSERVEraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>, causes that message to be treated as a
command by the listserve software, THIS and ONLY THIS is the address to
send Unsubscribe requests, Set NoMail requests, and so forth.  The
listserve software ONLY listens here for commands, you can send them to
those other "ports" all you want, and all you'll get is a copy back from
the machine, telling you you've made a mistake.

Same as on a PIC chip, using the wrong port for the wrong purpose may
result in unintended consequences, like annoyed list neighbors or
flustrated admins.

The ListServe machine is even simpler than ANY PIC;  It doesn't take all
that much learning to add the capability to handle these 3 I/O ports and
to learn the few commands that the third port takes, especially compared
to the relatively huge complexity that the simplest PIC chip poses by
comparison! <G>

 Mark

--
I do small package shipping for small businesses, world-wide.

1999\11\08@211211 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face
> Folks, the PICList has 3 "I/O Ports".  Seems I need to remind some
> people how they're used.

Do you have to keep track of which bank you're in when you access them?
:)

1999\11\08@211619 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Dave VanHorn wrote:
>
> > Folks, the PICList has 3 "I/O Ports".  Seems I need to remind some
> > people how they're used.
>
> Do you have to keep track of which bank you're in when you access them?
> :)

Not even that!  (Besides, the last time I was coding in a bank, the
security guy came over & asked me to move along, pronto! <G>)

 Mark

--
I do small package shipping for small businesses, world-wide.

1999\11\08@211831 by Nick Taylor

picon face
Dave VanHorn wrote:
>
> > Folks, the PICList has 3 "I/O Ports".  Seems I need to remind some
> > people how they're used.
>
> Do you have to keep track of which bank you're in when you access them?
> :)

Not if you're on the "Dark Side"! <G>

1999\11\08@212700 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face
> Not even that!  (Besides, the last time I was coding in a bank, the
> security guy came over & asked me to move along, pronto! <G>)


I've worked in the room across the hallway from where visa loads it's
encryption keys. :)
They didn't bother me, I was just photographing the guts of a competitor's
prototype.

1999\11\08@212713 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
Make sure that after you've robbed the first bank, you "switch banks before
accessing the contents of the the register" <VBEG>

Sean

At 06:15 PM 11/8/99 -0800, you wrote:
>Not even that!  (Besides, the last time I was coding in a bank, the
>security guy came over & asked me to move along, pronto! <G>)
>
>  Mark
>
>--
>I do small package shipping for small businesses, world-wide.
>
|
| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
| Electrical Engineering Student
\--------------=----------------
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
RemoveMEshb7spam_OUTspamKILLspamcornell.edu ICQ #: 3329174

1999\11\08@212721 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face
> Not if you're on the "Dark Side"! <G>

VBG

'[Admin] PICList Administrativa'
1999\11\09@004842 by Alfred Siu

flavicon
face
part 0 842 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; (decoded 7bit)

Thanks.


Alf

Mark Willis wrote:

> Folks, please refrain from HTML posts on the PICList;  Many people on
> the list cannot read your posts (their browser won't READ HTML!), and
> others such as myself end up squinting to try to read 2-point micro
> fonts that are essentially unreadable.  Most browsers that CAN send
> HTML, can be configured to send text-only messages in your address book
> etc., HTML's for web pages, not really for text e-mail, I've always
> thought <G>
>
>   Mark

Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii;
name="baodiao.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Card for Alfred Siu
Content-Disposition: attachment;
filename="baodiao.vcf"

Attachment converted: wonderland:baodiao.vcf (TEXT/CSOm) (0000F447)

'[ADMIN] Weird problems subscribing, please help'
1999\11\11@045815 by Sten Dahlgren

flavicon
face
Hello !

I'm about to switch my subscribtion over to my home computer/ISP
but has some serious problems.
When i try to subscribe from my home ISP i don't get any replys
no nothing, i have tried to send info and help requests to but
no response at all. From work i tried the change command to move
it over and then i get a mail sent to home that i should reply
with an "ok #######" message and then i get a response to home with
a new request to send an ok but with another number. At the same time
i get a reply to work with a comment like this.

Your  request cannot  be processed  because the  confirmation came
from
RemoveMEstdaTakeThisOuTspamspamD1O41.TELIA.COM rather  than EraseMEsten.dahlgrenspamspamspamBeGoneTELIA.COM.  For
security
reasons, the confirmation for a change of address must come from the
new
address. A new confirmation request is being sent.

At home i'm logged in as stda. The machine name D1041 is something my
ISP has invented. Probably DHCP thing.


Any help needed.

regards
/Sten

1999\11\11@054608 by paulb

flavicon
face
Sten Dahlgren wrote:

> The machine name D1041 is something my ISP has invented.
> Probably DHCP thing.

 DHCP?  Sounds nasty!  Shouldn't generally affect e-mail but...
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\11\11@062447 by Tim Hamel

picon face
In a message dated 11/11/99 2:47:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
RemoveMEpaulbKILLspamspamMIDCOAST.COM.AU writes:

>  DHCP?  Sounds nasty!  Shouldn't generally affect e-mail but...

DHCP (Dynamic Host Configuration Protocol) is completely irrelevant to the
problem here. DHCP has to do with dynamic IP addy assignments. What his
problem could be are his mail program settings. Either that or SMTP/POP
server problems...
Sheesh, it's been a LONG time since I've posted, and when I do, it's
completely OT, arrrggghh!


Regards,

Tim Hamel

1999\11\11@123832 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Sten Dahlgren wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Oh, Boy, another problem to figure out & solve here <G>

Sten, I'll help you out, this could be just a configuration problem from
your home computer, I maye have to issue commands FOR you (been MEANING
to read that section of the new software's manual, now I'll get it
done!  <G>)

Please send an e-mail to me, off-list, from your HOME and from your WORK
addresses, maybe pass the messages you're getting along by forwarding.
I need to see your headers, I think, from the home machine (it's
possible something's not set right there, it's possible I've misled
myself here, too <G>)

(BTW, the 'Ideal' e-mail address for "Help!" requests like this is the
"PICList Admins Helpline" address, <KILLspamPICList-RequestspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>.
But, then, Paul and Tim don't get to tease you <G>)

 Mark

--
I do small package shipping for small businesses, world-wide.

'[ADMIN] Problems on the PICList'
1999\11\18@185017 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Known problem, (Thanks, Wagner, for asking), someone's mail server is
bouncing PICList messages back to the PICList, I asked them to fix it
earlier today, am offline, will get back on soon.  If needed, will drop
the person but hoping that's not necessary!

I expect a LOT of people are getting these =(

Wagner Lipnharski wrote:
{Quote hidden}

 Mark

--
I do small package shipping for small businesses, world-wide.

'[ADMIN] Thought on header revision and format'
1999\11\20@144016 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
One thing I've been thinking about on headers is to suggest we try to
put [OT] at the END of subject lines, when people add it to a subject
line of a post they think's OT for the list;

The reason I suggest this is that my browser sorts subjects
alphabetically, not by intent of the sender <G>;  Say we have 3 posts,
Subject:  ABC
Subject:  Re: ABC [OT]
Subject:  Re: ABC [OT] [way, way OT]
Subject:  Re: [OT] ABC

{The 3rd post is how I'd let filterers filter, and acknowledge that
something is way OT for us humans, BTW.}  The last post alpha sorts WAY
far away above the other 3 posts, separating it and making the
conversation diverge worse than it already will, this being the PICList
<G>

Something to consider for the FAQs; this might make tracking the
subjects easier for most people, and filtering should still work well
enough.  (Set your filter to "Contains" instead of "Begins with" <G>)
It's a convenience for others, they can figure out what posts are about
what subject{s} <G>

Also, for the same "convenience of others" reasons, PLEASE, let's not
see any header lines like these:
Subject:  SV: ABC [OT]  {Default list language is English, folks <G>}
Subject:  FWD: Re: ABC [OT]
Subject:  Re: [OT] Re: ABC
Subject:  Re: Re: Re: SV: ABC [OT]  {ONE 'Re:' suffices!}
Subject:  Re: ABC [OT}  {Ack!}
Subject:  Re: [OT, Way OT] ABC

Also, James Newton now joins us as an Admin, we'll split duties up &
make things work <G>

 Mark

--
I do small package shipping for small businesses, world-wide.

1999\11\21@153554 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Mark, I like the idea. I use Eudora and it's normally `trivial' to
sort and filter messages but the current scheme scatters the same
subject all over the place when I sort by subject. Another problem is
folks that decide to do a "<subject> was <subject>"... On occasion,
I've been tempted to post my list of `gripes' but so far I've held
back. I assume anything with "[ADMIN]" is reserved for Jory, you, and
now, James.

  And a note to James: Congrats, James. It takes a brave man to
sacrifice family, sleep, and sanity ;-)

  - Tom

At 11:39 AM 11/20/99 -0800, Mark Willis wrote:
{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

'[ADMIN] notice - additional list owner and web pag'
1999\11\22@103914 by eplus1

flavicon
face
You think Jory and Mark saw that big red "S" on my forehead? <GRIN> Feel
free to send any advice on sanity maintenance my way, and don't expect too
much... I don't intend to take more than occasional action beyond sending
friendly reminders to people to set plain text and MARK OT's with [OT]. BTW
my definition of OT is something that is not likely to be of interest to a
designer, hobbyist or engineer who commonly uses PICs. So don't feel you
have to mention a PIC in the post. Just don't make jokes, topical
conversation, physics discussions etc... without an [OT] and please... don't
make political or religious comments at all except in a signature line.

I'm happy that http://www.piclist.com has a home (and I hope to make it a better
home with your help). I'd like to suggest that regular posters add the URL
to their signature lines so that newbies will have some idea where to go for
sub/unsub instructions, FAQ's and guidelines. Note that the PICList FAQ is
editable by you! Just fill out the form at the techref homepage and add your
comments etc... as you feel necessary.

James Newton @spam@jamesnewton@spam@spamspam_OUTgeocities.com phone:1-619-652-0593
http://techref.homepage.com NOW OPEN (R/O) TO NON-MEMBERS!
Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting)
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


{Original Message removed}


'[ADMIN] Question'
1999\12\07@200315 by Tony Nixon
flavicon
picon face
Sorry for the bandwidth..

Am I allowed to put the PICLIST address on PicNPoke's CD for interesting
places to visit?


[OT]

Hey Mark Willis, if your reading this...

Sorry, I missplaced your email, but the CD for your friend is on it's
way.
'First one off the press' :-)


--
Best regards

Tony

http://www.picnpoke.com
spamBeGonesalesspamKILLspampicnpoke.com

1999\12\08@004452 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
I cannot imagine it being a problem.  No problem on the CD, it'd help
those needing help (We on the list are some of us "beyond help", of
course <G>)  "Don't sell the address to SPAMmers knowingly, please" <G>

(Saw the other, great!  I saw him today, will burn some EPRoms for him &
get all to him soon, his motherboards need newer firmware; where can I
find a 27C1000-15 or a 27C010A-15 tomorrow? <G>  His Pentium momboard
has the weirdest EPRom/EEProm/Flash ROM markings I've seen lately, HT
M12587 J9710, he tends to get *weird* hardware but this should also be a
27C010A-15 or the like?!  I'll get that to him.)

 Mark

Tony Nixon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

1999\12\08@102654 by jamesnewton

picon face
Maybe it would be a good idea to list the PIC FAQ page as a starting point
so that the normal newbie questions of how to sub and unsub and "why don't I
see my own posts" etc... can be answered along with sneaking in some
etiquette training....

http://www.piclist.com

James Newton TakeThisOuTjamesnewton.....spamTakeThisOuTgeocities.com phone:1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


{Original Message removed}

'[ADMIN] Question [OT]'
1999\12\09@160337 by Dmitry Kiryashov

flavicon
face
Hi James.

As matter is fact in will not work. ;) It is obvious thing that after
you've finished that
titanic work and will describe detaily everything you'll hear one person
question about
"Hey how this list works , tell me please, because I unable to RTFM :)
Because it is so hard to read subscribe confirmation message and save it
for future unsub...

WBR Dmitry.

> Maybe it would be a good idea to list the PIC FAQ page as a starting point so
that the
> normal newbie questions of how to sub and unsub and "why don't I see my own po
sts"
> etc... can be answered along with sneaking in some etiquette training....
> http://www.piclist.com

1999\12\10@115648 by jamesnewton

picon face
Oh, I know we will never be rid of the RTFM impaired... Perfection is beyond
our reach but (I think) we can and should still try for it. There are
degrees of RTFM impairment. By not having a quick link to an FAQ site, we
fail to help the mildly impaired. Baby with bathwater etc...

I'm working on an autoresponder for that sort of thing. Not to actually
unsubscribe people based on PICList posts with "unsubscribble" in the body
but rather to send a FAQ item to them (not the list). Its a very tricky rule
to build. "only if 99% of the message is the request to unsubscribe" etc...
and not to the reply to address (the list) but rather to the senders
address. Outlook is not cooperating so I'm testing a small email server to
use in its place. We will see....

Advice appreciated.

James Newton TakeThisOuTjamesnewtonKILLspamspamspamgeocities.com phone:1-619-652-0593
http://techref.homepage.com NOW OPEN (R/O) TO NON-MEMBERS!
Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting)
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com


{Original Message removed}

'[Admin] For anyone moving from one ISP to another.'
1999\12\21@013637 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
If you're moving and you know it in advance, here's the command to use
to "transfer" your PICList subscription when ready, use this method;
>From your old account;  Send the command

Change PICList .....new_usernamespamRemoveMEnew_isp.tld

to the good ol' PICList List Server Command Port Address,
<RemoveMELISTSERVspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU>, that'll transfer you <G>

(Pushed this to someone needing it, decided, why not post it list-wide,
just in case it helps someone else.  James, feel free to toss that in
the FAQ <G>)

If it's too late (which happens!), just ask me & I'll issue it
"virtually" from your old account;  the one advantage of doing this is
that your account options don't get forgotten.

It's not in the manuals I have, but Info RefCard issued to the listserv
commands address gets you enough info to "Fake" this <G>

 Mark



--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)


'[ADMIN] PICLIST FAQ'
2000\01\10@103257 by PICLIST-request
flavicon
face
WELCOME TO THE PICLIST FAQ

The PICList is a collection of people interested in the Microchip PIC
processor who have requested that email sent to the PICList email address be
forwarded to them.

There are about 1800 people subscribed to the PICList (as of 19990110) so
sending a post to the PICList results in a lot of people spending the time
required to read your message or question. They would all appreciate it if
you would check the PIC FAQ and search the Archives before posting a
question.

Many of them enjoy reading posts on topics other than the PIC but that may
be interesting to PICers (engineering, ideas, technical jokes, etc...) but
many others do not wish to spend the time required to read these off-topic
posts. They would appreciate it if you would put the text [TO] at the end of
the subject line of your post so that they know its not about PICs. If you
are replying to a post that is not about PICs and notice that it is not
marked [TO], please edit the subject line to add that flag.

Q : How do I send messages to the list
A : Step by step:

First, you check the PIC FAQ.  and search the Archives. to get an instant
answer without wasting anyone's time.
http://www.infosite.com/~jkeyzer/piclist/index.html with older posts at
http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/

Second, you must be subscribed to the list to post to the list and you must
send from the email address you subscribed from. some email clients will
allow you to click on the following link:
spamBeGoneLISTSERV@spam@spamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU?body=SUB+PICLIST

Third you must compose a message to TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
PICLISTEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
that will elicit help.
If its not about PICs directly, that's ok, post it anyway but put [TO] at
the end of the subject line.
The subject should be as complete a description of the problem as is
possible in 60 characters or so. Compress and distill.

The body should:
- be in plain text, not HTML.
- be a detailed description of the problem in as few words as possible.
If you have a web page, post a verbose description of the problem to it and
put the full URL of that page in your post (include the ) along with
a summary of the problem.
- include what you are trying to do (overall), what you expected to have
happen at this point, what you are seeing, and how you are seeing it (what
test equipment, etc...)
- Include specific part numbers, code snippets (not the full source,
please), and signal descriptions.

Finally, read your message over again, check the subject line and press
send.
You will not see your message echoed on the PIClist, and it may take more
than a day before anyone responds since most people only read their PICList
mail once a day and they are all over the world. If no one responds after a
week, read the rest of this page,  especially the list admin Mini-FAQ,
general list guidelines,  rethink your post and add a "Nobody responded to
my last post, what am I doing wrong?" to the end and send it again.

Q : How do I send commands (like to subscribe/unsubscribe)?
A : To send a command, send it in the body of an email to the list server
address :
RemoveMELISTSERVEraseMEspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
For instance, to get off the list, you send the command :
SIGNOFF PICLIST to @spam@LISTSERVRemoveMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
EraseMELISTSERVspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU?body=SIGNOFF+PICLIST> Sending SIGNOFF PICLIST in the body of a post to the PICLIST@... address
will result in about 1800 people being notified that you want to leave the
PICList and the emails will keep right on coming.

Q : Where must the command be in my email?
A : In the message body. The subject line is ignored.

Q : What commands are available ?
A : List of ListServer commands

Q: Is the list moderated, how do I contact the moderators,  and what are the
guidelines?
A: The list is administered, not moderated by Mark Willis, James Newton and
Jory Bell (who setup and controls the list). Posting messages to the
"PICList Administration Port", at
@spam@PICList-Requestspam_OUTspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes
that message to be distributed to all admins who then read your post & try
to help. They have now published guidelines (Including Marks new Mini-FAQ)
at this site.
http://www.piclist.com
Admin's guide the list by asking that people mark off topic messages with
[TO] in the subject line (not to, <to>, {TO] or off topic) and PICLIST
related but not PIC related messages with [Admin] so that people who do not
wish to read these postings can filter them out via their email programs.
Non-PIC related threads are common and the volume of messages can be several
hundred per week. Several respected, valuable, and otherwise caring people
have, in the past, unsubscribed due to a temporary peak in the volume of
fluff and bad attitudes. When bickering and non-technical posts reach a
fever pitch, James, Mark and even Jory have been known to step in and put a
stop to it by warning people and throwing them off the list. If you want to
be accepted and get the most help, please read some general list guidelines.
Text only posts (no HTML email) are preferred, subject not directly related
to the PIC should be marked with [TO] at the end of the subject line, and
messages of hatred or intolerance will get you kicked off the list, period.
Please forward suggestion or complaints about the list to the list admins at
spamBeGonePICList-RequestEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
PICList-RequestspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
rather than to all the list members. Product information about your PIC
related product is fine, but blatant spam is not. Advertise your company,
product or site in a one or two line addition to your signature at the
bottom of your posts.

Q. Is the PICList a good place to ask for / post cracks for PIC related
software?
A. Remember that the PICList is a public forum. Asking for a crack will
typically get you nothing but advice to pay for what you get. In the past,
cracks posted to the list have evoked mixed responses ranging from offlist
threats, to onlist thanks and have started some flame threads about hacking
and cracking and software licenses and prices in general which always end up
being a waste of bandwidth. List members have been known to forward cracking
related threads to the maker of the product being cracked with full header
information (including your email address, and who your ISP is).

We can't stop people from posting things that are not legal. We do not
approve of software piracy and will remove from the list individuals who
show a flagrant disregard for the rights (and efforts) of others. We will
forcibly kill flame threads that have no bearing on PICs and are not
appropriate to the list.

Jory says: "...[we can't prevent] PICList people [from pirating] software,
since that is everyone's own choice, ... i don't want to police such things,
but please keep in mind the nature of your communication, and the nature of
a public list and decide what is appropriate."

Lets keep cracking off the PICList, there are plenty of other lists for
that, and as always, please mark anything not directly related to PIC
engineering with an [TO] at the end of the subject line.


Q: Can I advertise my product on the PICList?
A: Yes and no. Read on:

SOLVING PROBLEMS WITH YOUR PRODUCT
:> Great! Responding to a question or a request for help with an
advertisement for your product which is a solution to the original post is
no problem. That type of advertising is "a good thing" as it A) solves the
posters problem B) encourages PIC related businesses C) Keeps people who do
PICs for a living involved in the list. D) sometimes it triggers a "hey, I
can do that for a lot less" response that leads to a healthy competition for
the advertisers.
Don, Tony, Myke and others have been called on the carpet for advertising
before and list members have resoundingly stood up for them.

Before you buy anything, don't be afraid to ask others on the list for
confirmation that a product recommended by the mfg. as a solution to your
problem is a good choice. List members will not hesitate to speak up <GRIN>
and the manufacturers are expected to be thick skinned.


SIGNATURE LINES
:) Good: Adding a line or two to your signature (and the "PIC/PICList FAQ:
http://www.piclist.com " line doesn't count! <GRIN>) about what you do, buy,
sell or believe in is also no problem. The only possible exceptions are
political and/or religious flame starters and spiteful messages.

PRODUCT NEWS
:| Maybe: Posting News or information about your product (unsolicited) to
the list. Well... ok... *IF* its a product that people on the PICList will
really use. The only trick is that in the eyes of the poster, the fact that
his new hydroponic plant management system has a PIC somewhere in it
qualifies it for the PICList even though he hasn't published a schematic,
code or even any description of the design process and its never been
mentioned on the list before. On the other hand, if the product actually A)
does something to a PIC or for a PIC (like a programmer or a simulator
etc...) B) Uses a PIC and has engineering details published or C) was
designed with help from the list (e.g. we all heard about the problems and
solutions involved in the making of it), we don't see any problem.

THE FINAL WORD
:{ Listen: The final judgment of what is appropriate is left in the hands of
the PICList administrators, if *they* feel a post is inappropriate, they
WILL take action with at least a warning, followed by removal and or barring
the offender from the list, at their option, on this as in any
transgression.
Q: Is the list archived?
A: in realtime at http://www.infosite.com/~jkeyzer/piclist/index.html with
older posts at http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/. The server also archives
the list - as of 4 January 2000 the server contains archives back to April
1998. To get a list of the archives send the command "index piclist" to
RemoveMElistserv@spam@spamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu.

Q: Are these archives searchable?
A: Yes, they are. The two webpages have search engines on the page. The
direct server interface also provides search capability by email. To use the
email interface, compose a new message addressed to .....listserv@spam@spamEraseMEmitvma.mit.edu.
In the body of the message, create your search parameters like this:

search keyword in listname
where keyword is the word or words (separated by spaces) that you wish to
search for and listname would be PICList.

You can further limit the search to a specific time frame by adding the
phrase

from date1
to begin the search at date1. You can also specify an ending date by adding

to date2
The full command would then be:

search keyword in listname from date1 to date2
Two other limiters that can be used are

where subject contains text
and

where sender contains text
These limiters contain the search to messages that have certain subject
lines or were sent by specific individuals, respectively.

[Thanks to Mike Werner]

Q: Why don't I see my own posts to the PICLIST?
A: This is the default setting on the list server. To changes this so that a
copy of your post is sent back to you from the list, send the command:
SET PICLIST REP to .....LISTSERVRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

Q: Can I get the list in "digest" format?
A: Yes. To change to digest mode, just send the command SET PICList DIGest
to .....LISTSERVSTOPspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU. To get back to individual emails, send the
command SET PICList NODIGests to LISTSERVEraseMEspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU

Q: Can I get only the posts that interest me in digest form?
Q: On my slow internet connection, it takes forever to download all the
email and I'm only interested in a few anyway. How can I keep using the
list?
A: Using the Index mode of the PIC List. [thanks to Mike Werner]

First of all, you must tell the server that you want the index mode for your
subscription. To do this, send a message to RemoveMELISTSERVspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU with the
command "set piclist index" (without the quotes, of course) as the sole
content in the body of the message. From then on you will receive a daily
index of postings to the list, looking something like this:

Index  Date  Size Poster and subject
-----  ----  ---- ------------------
043066 10/22   18 From:    Mike Werner <spamBeGonereznaeousKILLspamspam@spam@EARTHLINK.NET>
                 Subject: Re: [TO] Bullet Proof Circuit... was: Survey...
What
                          is an
Except that there would be a whole lot more entries than that. The headers
are fairly self-explanatory, but as a quick once over they are: Index is a
server assigned sequential number for reference purposes, Date is the date
the message was received by the server, Size is the number of lines in the
message not counting headers, and then Poster and Subject is just that.

To retrieve the full message, all you need do is hit reply, quote the
original message (most mailers will do that either automatically or provide
a button to do so), and then edit out the messages that you are not
interested in. Once you have done that, send the message. In a few minutes
you will receive one digest-style message containing just the messages you
wanted.

Q: I'm going on vacation / don't want to be involved in the PICList for a
while. Should I unsubscribe and then re-subscribe when I get back?
A: You can, but this will reset any configuration related to your account.
To preserve your settings, send the NOMAIL command: SET PICList NOMAIL to
LISTSERVspam_OUTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU as you leave and then send the MAIL command: SET
PICList MAIL to spamBeGoneLISTSERV@spam@spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU when you return. Also, consider
setting digest mode (above) to continue getting PICList posts in a more
compact form.

Q: I've been on the PICList for a while and suddenly I'm not getting any of
the 50 odd messages per day that normally come in:
A: Sometimes, on the Internet (being the way it is), mail doesn't get
through for a while - it does get through eventually. Situations happen like
your mail being handed off to a machine which then gets disconnected due to
some problem, be it "backhoe fade" or a hardware crash, things usually get
fixed up in a couple days. Usually the traffic all shows up in one HUGE
clump, some hours or days later on, whenever that server gets fixed or
re-booted. It's annoying to us admins, as we have to tell the difference
between not being on the list, being on the list but set to NoMail, or the
above, or other problems that can happen. Sometimes, someone's ISP falls
onto the RBL (Realtime Black hole List - an anti-SPAM list, this happened to
MY ISP recently), or the PICList gets mistakenly ID'ed as a "SPAM" source by
someone's ISP due to all the traffic, and all PICList traffic is filtered
into the "circular binary file." Rarely, you get a fast response back, but
the mail isn't getting through, despite the options the list server's set to
looking like it should - When THAT happens, I suggest people unsub &
re-subscribe, usually that fixes things. Sometimes just setting to digest &
then regular mail a few seconds later can fix it.

The usual test I suggest is to send a "Query PICList" message to the
"PICList List Server Command Input Port" at RemoveMELISTSERVEraseMEspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU, if you
don't get a response back from that address in 5 minutes or less, mail's
dropping through an event horizon someplace between your ISP and the list
server, or filtering is happening, or someone's on the RBL & is being
filtered out. This is a good time to e-mail the list admins at
spamBeGonePICList-Requestspam_OUTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU and let us look into it.

Q: My email address is changing. How can I forward my PICList emails?
A: If you're moving to a new ISP, you can send in the command "CHange
PICList newemailaddress@newISP", to .....LISTSERVspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU to move your
subscription.

Q: I want to post to the PICList from my home email account and from work.
When I try to post from an account from which I am not subscribed to the
PICList I get a "rejected posting" message and if I subscribe from both
email accounts, I end up with two copies of every post. What can I do?
A: Subscribe from both accounts then send the NOMAIL command from the email
address where you do not wish to receive (but do wish to send) posts.

Q: I'm having (some other) problem with the PICList
A: [There are] Multiple ways to handle any type of List problems [says Mark]

Send a "Query PICList" message, to the PICList List Server 'Command Input
port' at <LISTSERVspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>, and forward the resulting e-mail you
receive in return, to an Admin. with what's wrong; This gives me more info.
Should get that response quickly, so if no response in a half hour, let me
know that you tried. If this happens, it's a router problem. If you send
such a message & get a delivery error, though, I want to know as I need to
contact MIT or something (unlikely though.)

Unsubscribe from the PICList and subscribe again. Yeah, I know, it's a pain!
But sometimes the only way, seemingly, to fix some things (Methinks L-Soft
has a bug to stomp somewhere in the Options setting/clearing code - for
their credit, they seem to have most of them pretty well squished!) You'll
have to then set your options again, which is a pain. I think (haven't
tested yet) that you can put the options all into one e-mail, too, i.e.
Subscribe on the first line, Set PICList Mail on the second, and even Set
PICList Repro on the third {Now the default}, Set PICList NoACK on the
fourth {Again the default} if you wanted. (I don't mind people asking for
help, either, especially when they cannot unsub an old address due to an ISP
change or ISP name change, it takes me 3 seconds to unsub people, so just
make sure you ask me to unsub the CORRECT ADDRESS, lest I unsub the wrong
one!)

To get at old posts, either jump to http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/ and
read there, or, you can send the command "Index PICList" to the PICList List
Server 'Command Input port' at <EraseMELISTSERVRemoveMEspamSTOPspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>, which will get an
index of old PICList messages for you. I don't think the list server keeps
all messages ever posted, but it does keep some. You can then order
individual messages by using "GETPOST PicList Ref#1 Ref#2 ..." etc., where
Ref#1 is a reference number in the Index you just received.
Q: How can I sort email from the PICList to separate it from my other email?
A: Most email clients will allow you to setup a rule for moving PICList
email into another folder. It always comes from RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU. If
your email program doesn't support that or if you want to keep it all
together but still easily see what emails are from the PICList, you can turn
on a subject sort tag by sending the command SET PICLIST SUBJECTHDR to
spamBeGoneLISTSERVspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU. This will insert the tag [PICLIST] in the subject
line of every post and remove it from your replies to the list for other
members who have turned this feature off (the default setting). You can
disable it by sending SET PICLIST NOSUBJECTHDR to RemoveMELISTSERVspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

Q: How is the PICList like a PIC?
A: The PICList list server has 3 "I/O Ports".

Posting messages to the "PICList Mail Distribution port", at
PICListspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes that message to be distributed to all 1800+
members of the PICList (Those who don't have NoMail set), who then read your
post and make snide comments if you posted to the wrong address.
Posting messages to the "PICList Administration Port", at
spam_OUTPICList-Requestspam_OUTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes that message to be distributed to all
admins of the PICList {Jory, Mark, & James, right now}, who then read your
post & try to help.
Posting messages to the "PICList Command Input Port", at
LISTSERVspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes that message to be treated as a command by
the listserve software, THIS and ONLY THIS is the address to send
Unsubscribe requests, Set NoMail requests, and so forth. The listserve
software ONLY listens here for commands, you can send them to those other
"ports" all you want, and all you'll get is a copy back from the machine,
telling you you've made a mistake.
Same as on a PIC chip, using the wrong port for the wrong purpose may result
in unintended consequences, like annoyed list neighbors or frustrated
admins.

And finally:

Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light
bulb?

A: Exactly Five Hundred:

1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb
has been changed
7 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light
bulb could have been changed differently.
4 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. (one post in HTML)
1 admin to post a message about not posting in HTML
17 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing
1 to post an unsubscribble message to the list (rather than to the list
server)
1 to respond to that with a witty comment about t-shirts
1 to notice that some message in the signature line of one of the messages
offends him and post a flaming rebuttal
1 One Admin to flame the other about SPAMming the list with pointers to his
PICList FAQ resulting in a flurry of off list inter-admin posts that
distract the admins just long enough to allow:
463 to pile into the flames

This FAQ maintained by Jory Bell, Mark Willis and James Newton. Last update
200001070752

The PICList Admins
RemoveMEPICList-RequestKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com

2000\01\10@112642 by PICLIST-request

flavicon
face
Please change all occurrences of [TO] into [OT] in the previous post on this
thread.

When I was about to send the monthly PICList FAQ post for Jory, Mark and I,
I thought "I'll just do one last spell check before posting this..." and
must have told the #^@^%@ spell checker to change all the ot's to to's. I
guess I have to be %7 smarter than the spell checker I'm running... <WANE
GRIN> Pardon me while I go wipe the egg off my face...

The following is correct (I think)

James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
jamesnewtonspamBeGonespam.....piclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}


'[Admin] List Problems'
2000\03\17@025328 by Mark Willis
flavicon
face
Hi, all -

We know there are problems with messages being bounced as "Duplicate",
we're tracking it down.

If you're having a problem with these, it'll help if you pass full
headers on the problem messages, I'll keep looking into it.

I've asked the people at the ISP that's apparently involved, to look
into this somewhat as well;  Something somewhere's set up wrong, that's
obvious <G>

 Mark

2000\03\17@041527 by Arthur Brown

flavicon
face
check if double messages are world wide as today all my messages are double
is this a virus that we were expecting but never came.This is
CABLEINET.CO.UK
also at this time of day it is easy to connect but today traffic is down to
82bps.
shall we all goback to tele-types at least whey were 110baud. \\{:)
all the best arthur

----- Original Message -----
From: Mark Willis Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 7:51 AM
Subject: [Admin] List Problems

'[ADMIN] Repeated Messages'
2000\03\21@033720 by Michael Rigby-Jones

flavicon
face
part 0 2826 bytes
<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Do you ever get that strange feeling of deja vu?</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">After the rash of bounced mails with warnings about duplicate posts, I've just had a bunch of old posts land in my inbox.&nbsp; I vaguely remember this happening before and Mark sorted it.&nbsp; Can't remember what the cause was though.</FONT></P>

<P><FONT COLOR="#0000FF" SIZE=2 FACE="Arial">Mike</FONT>
</P>
<UL>
<P><FONT SIZE=1 FACE="Arial">{Original Message removed}

2000\03\21@041711 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
As of about 3PM Monday I did something which will either fix this, or
not;  if it doesn't fix it, I'll try further action, something's
seriously wrong at one account at one ISP, e-mail to the person who's
subscribed there hasn't resulted in a reply.

Tomorrow (well, OK, later today) should be fixed.  One way or another,
by some kind of lever and fulcrum or another <G>

 Mark

> Michael Rigby-Jones wrote:
> Do you ever get that strange feeling of deja vu?
>
> After the rash of bounced mails with warnings about duplicate posts,
> I've just had a bunch of old posts land in my inbox.  I vaguely
> remember this happening before and Mark sorted it.  Can't remember
> what the cause was though.
>
> Mike
>
>      {Original Message removed}

2000\03\22@112907 by Daniel Hart

flavicon
face
Today I received dups of virtually the entire current list. This has not happened to me before.
Dan

Mark Willis wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> >      {Original Message removed}

2000\03\22@135701 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Ack.  Daniel, please pass me verbose headers, I want to see where those
are coming from.  Same for anyone else getting these, please.

 Mark

Daniel Hart wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > >      {Original Message removed}

'[ADMIN] Digest problems'
2000\03\28@200735 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Hi, all;

If you get the Digest, you may be getting multiple copies of same.
We're trying to track this down;  If you DO get multiple copies, PLEASE
PLEASE PLEASE send me *full* headers off the top of at least 2 Digests -
I can NOT track the cause of this problem down without full headers
usually.  Lots easier with info <G>  Same thing as trying to debug a PIC
problem based on "It doesn't work right" - we can guess, but it's just
guesswork <G>

Full headers will look UGLY, worse than C or assembler;  something like
this for Netscape, from a test I just sent through a backup mail address
of mine:

{Quote hidden}

 Mark

'[Admin] Digest Disasters Debugged?'
2000\03\29@172740 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Hi, all;  Looks like headers from 2 people so far both point at a sick
machine at LSoft as the cause of those unfortunates who're getting
multiple digests.

If you have headers, you'll see a date discrepancy between Received and
Send on dates on lime.ease.lsoft.com;  That's the thing that I'm seeing
that makes me think it's the culprit.

I'd bet LSoft will have that fixed shortly!

 Mark

'[Admin] PICList Digest replacement copies'
2000\03\29@235045 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Hi, all.  Starting last night, with PICList Digest for 27 Mar 2000 to 28
Mar 2000 (#2000-89), I subscribed to the list off a spare e-mail
forwarding address I own, in Digest form.

Partially did this so that, in future, if necessary, I can forward
Digests to anyone missing one.  Mostly did it to solve e-mail header
problems.

Please Please Please, though, ask for them by the *Index number* (i.e.
#2000-89 for the first one!), not the date range, as differences in
world time will confuse us all otherwise <G>  Telling me which Digests
you have is good enough (as the subject lines have the index numbers I
want to know <G>)

This old Win4WG 3.11 machine just doesn't seem to want to edit the
digests, due to their size, or I'd try to just Send them to those asking
- Sorry it'll be Forwarded, but a readable Forwarded copy beats no
digest at all.

 Mark

'[Admin] Marking an "OT" post properly when a threa'
2000\03\31@023422 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Hey, all.  Please - when you stick [OT] onto a post that hasn't been
marked [OT] previously - put the [OT] marking at the *END* of the
Subject line, not the beginning - it makes people like myself who sort
posts by subject line, a *lot* happier, as then I don't have to scroll
up and down about a half-jillion times to read posts in sequential or
semi-sequential order...  If everything sorts in some reasonable sort of
order, it makes it lost easier to track each thread!

If you change the subject line completely due to the thread wandering,
or if you start a new thread, putting the [OT] at the front of the
subject line is fine; if changing an existing subject, it messes me up
somewhat (And the LAST thing I want or need in my life's more mess!
<G>)

And, o'course, please JUST use [OT], not (OT), <OT>, {OT}, or any other
creative permutation you can come up with - I know you're creative,
please just show that creativity in other ways =)

 Mark


'[admin] repeated posts'
2000\04\03@122458 by Alan B Pearce
face picon face
I have received several old posts repeated again. Have others received these?

The symptom is not a whole bunch of posts together as a block, but rather an
occasional one now and then. I have not gone through the messages to see if they
all occurred in a block together originally, but could possibly do that if
required.

Also the messages seem to arrive in isolation, i.e. it does not seem to be the
arrival of another message which triggers the list server to send a repeated
post, although I guess it is not impossible that another post causes it to go
into a background task which may take some time to actually send a message.

'[ADMIN] Bouncing messages from roland.wintsch@port'
2000\04\10@114632 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
I'm getting the following message after every submission to the piclist:

User mailbox exceeds allowed size: spamBeGoneroland.wintschspamportable-shop.ch

I imagine s/he left a few days ago and didn't turn off his/her subscription, or
something to that effect...

Probably needs to be set to no messages for awhile.

-Adam

2000\04\10@132220 by Quitt, Walter

flavicon
face
Me too.....

-----Original Message-----
From: M. Adam Davis [spam_OUTadavisSTOPspamspamUBASICS.COM]
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2000 8:44 AM
To: RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [ADMIN] Bouncing messages from TakeThisOuTroland.wintschspamspamRemoveMEportable-shop.ch


I'm getting the following message after every submission to the piclist:

User mailbox exceeds allowed size: KILLspamroland.wintschspamspamspam_OUTportable-shop.ch

I imagine s/he left a few days ago and didn't turn off his/her subscription,
or
something to that effect...

Probably needs to be set to no messages for awhile.

-Adam

2000\04\10@132813 by jamesnewton

face picon face
I went ahead and unsubscribed him. He can get back on after fixing the
account if he wants.

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
jamesnewtonRemoveMEspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org


{Original Message removed}

'[ADMIN] Marking subject lines'
2000\04\11@133043 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
Well, it may be nice to have everything nicely categorized by using the subject
line.  But as long as you have new people subscribing to the list without
reading the FAQ or even the welcome message, and as long as you have people who
forget even to put the [OT] up, I don't know that you'll get too far.

But be of good cheer.  We've pretty much gotten rid of all the rogue forms of
[OT], and people are using [ADMIN] when needed.  There aren't any other
confusing terms.  It looks like we just have to take a little at a time, and it
may be a good time to start using [EE].  I would suggest that [OT] be enforced,
but [EE] just become a suggestion.  People can add it to subjects if they want
slightly more exposure for [OT] posts, but we don't need to reprimand them if
they don't include it.

So now we have:
[ADMIN]  for administration questions, suggestions,
        etc which pertain to everyone on the list
[OT]     Items which have little or no conection to
        the PICLIST, but are asked by its members
        anyway.
[OT][EE] Items which have little connection to PICs,
        but may be of interest to electrical
        engineers.

Personally I think the list is doing very well.  I don't feel like I'm wading
through a lot of dross to get to the good stuff.

-Adam

Never knock on Death's door:
Ring the doorbell and run (he hates that).

James Newton wrote:
{Quote hidden}

2000\04\11@185229 by David E Arnold

picon face
Just an idea:

How about the opposite of current system.

In order to get people to put [OT] in the subject lines, how about having the
listserver
automatically do it by default unless a person specifically puts a tag that
indicates
not to.  That way if people really want a response on a PIC related question or
issue(
and it matters to them, they'll have to enter this flag so the listserver will
not mark the
post as [OT].

-Dave







"M. Adam Davis" <EraseMEadavisSTOPspamspamRemoveMEUBASICS.COM> on 04/11/2000 10:27:35 AM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <spam_OUTPICLISTRemoveMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>

To:   TakeThisOuTPICLISTRemoveMEspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:    (bcc: David E Arnold/SYBASE)
Subject:  [ADMIN] Marking subject lines




Well, it may be nice to have everything nicely categorized by using the subject
line.  But as long as you have new people subscribing to the list without
reading the FAQ or even the welcome message, and as long as you have people who
forget even to put the [OT] up, I don't know that you'll get too far.

But be of good cheer.  We've pretty much gotten rid of all the rogue forms of
[OT], and people are using [ADMIN] when needed.  There aren't any other
confusing terms.  It looks like we just have to take a little at a time, and it
may be a good time to start using [EE].  I would suggest that [OT] be enforced,
but [EE] just become a suggestion.  People can add it to subjects if they want
slightly more exposure for [OT] posts, but we don't need to reprimand them if
they don't include it.

So now we have:
[ADMIN]  for administration questions, suggestions,
        etc which pertain to everyone on the list
[OT]     Items which have little or no conection to
        the PICLIST, but are asked by its members
        anyway.
[OT][EE] Items which have little connection to PICs,
        but may be of interest to electrical
        engineers.

Personally I think the list is doing very well.  I don't feel like I'm wading
through a lot of dross to get to the good stuff.

-Adam

Never knock on Death's door:
Ring the doorbell and run (he hates that).

James Newton wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'[admin] www.piclist.com down?'
2000\04\17@100236 by jamesnewton

picon face
Blue Screen of Death sometime Sunday. Its up now. http://www.piclist.org will be a
mirror backup site very soon.

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
EraseMEjamesnewtonRemoveMEspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

-----Original Message-----
From: JB [spamjb.....spamspamci.glenwood-springs.co.us]
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 09:32
To: jamesnewtonspam_OUTspam@spam@geocities.com
Subject: [admin] http://www.piclist.com down?


Site doesn't respond, from here anyway. Hopefully you're the one to notify
about this, in which case you probably already know, but just in case..

JB

'[Admin] Re: Todd is SPAMming us was[OT] To those l'
2000\04\19@201926 by Nathan Hendler

flavicon
face
While you guys are nitpicking... shouldn't [Admin] have been added to this
threads subject?  har har.

Nathan Hendler

On Wed, 19 Apr 2000, James Michael Newton wrote:

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

'[Admin] [OT] Spamming and Spamcop/Samspade'
2000\04\20@125249 by William K. Borsum

flavicon
face
<x-flowed>Just curious how these two URL's work??
Don't get a lot of junk mail any more--but what i do get is irritating
beyond belief.  Would sincerely love to return the "favor" and create some
havoc at the other end, or find some sort of filter that catches all of it
on the way in.
Kelly


At 04:55 PM 4/19/00, you wrote:
> >
> > If you want to do the RIGHT THING (IMHO) use
> > http://www.spamcop.net
> >   or
> > http://www.samspade.com
> >  to automatically report him to everyone from his ISP to the blacklist
> orgs.

William K. Borsum, P.E. -- OEM Dataloggers and Instrumentation Systems
<borsumKILLspamspamEraseMEdascor.com> & <http://www.dascor.com>San Diego, California, USA

</x-flowed>

'[ADMIN][OT]Todd is SPAMming us'
2000\04\20@131408 by Barry King

flavicon
face
I just got my copy this morning!  Oh joy.  Its SPAM because,

1) Its unsolicited (I didn't ASK for info here or on his site.)
2) Its a mass mailing
3) The senders identity is purposely hidden in the headers (why would
a legitimate business do that????)

Further more,
4) He hasn't apologized
5) He hasn't stopped, even after the uproar.

If he had just posted the exact same product announcement to the
list, we would not be screaming, LARTing and complaining.  Posting
announcements that might resonable be of interest to the list members
is specifically allowed.  If you don't follow the rules, you deserve
all the ire, boycotts, and LARTs you get.

------------
Barry King, KA1NLH
NRG Systems "Measuring the Wind's Energy"
http://www.nrgsystems.com
Check out the accumulated (PIC) wisdom of the ages at:
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.org

'[Admin] [OT] Spamming and Spamcop/Samspade'
2000\04\20@132023 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
I use samspade in manual mode - he does have a Win32 app there but I
haven't used it so cannot comment;  Steve (who runs SamSpade) would know
<G>  He's a good guy, will usually answer questions in fairly short
times.

For manual mode, you look up the headers, need to use Verbose headers
mode for that - find the IP addresses (starting hunting from the top
down for all non-AOL users - I'm told AOL does headers differently.  You
go downwards until you find a huge discrepancy, or, reach the end of the
Received-from lines.)  Enter the IP addresses, in turn, into the
"WhoIs/TraceRoute" dialog box - I click all 3 dialog boxes and then hit
"Go" (Doing all this from memory, it's pretty simple.)  You then send a
complaint letter to the Spammers' ISP and DNS server holders, and in
some cases their ISP's ISP (I can help off-list better on how to do
this.)  You also do the same with the SPAMmers' web pages, complaining
to the DNS servers and web page ISP and their ISP, and to anything you
can find on their web page - use the safe browser on Sam Spade or on
Anonymizer.Com, if some joker's using a Merchant CC account you DO want
to bug the provider of that account so they'll likely be shut off from
being able to make money.

If you send me headers you're stuck on, I'll help, or you can join any
of a number of Anti-Spammer training web pages (FREE, CAUCE, etc.) and
e-mail lists, and there're certainly other people on the list who know
how to track SPAMmers.  Takes about 5 minutes to write a "LART" once you
get the hang of it - The first ones won't be THAT fast, of course.  And
there are tricks etc., like SMI8.6 relays that destroy all
trace-ability, so all you can do there is ask the relay's owner to close
their relay - You will have to learn more than I've written here,
obviously.  It's good knowledge to put on your Resume' - "I can read
e-mail headers" <G>

 Mark

William K. Borsum wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

'[ADMIN][OT]Todd is SPAMming us'
2000\04\20@141111 by Andrew Kunz

flavicon
face
Strange.  The 4 copies I got all said "Todd Peterson" (whom I know as e-labs)
and had e-labs in the "from."

Andy










Barry King <@spam@barryspamspamKILLspamNRGSYSTEMS.COM> on 04/20/2000 01:49:00 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <spamBeGonePICLISTRemoveMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: Re: [ADMIN][OT]Todd is SPAMming us








I just got my copy this morning!  Oh joy.  Its SPAM because,

1) Its unsolicited (I didn't ASK for info here or on his site.)
2) Its a mass mailing
3) The senders identity is purposely hidden in the headers (why would
a legitimate business do that????)

Further more,
4) He hasn't apologized
5) He hasn't stopped, even after the uproar.

If he had just posted the exact same product announcement to the
list, we would not be screaming, LARTing and complaining.  Posting
announcements that might resonable be of interest to the list members
is specifically allowed.  If you don't follow the rules, you deserve
all the ire, boycotts, and LARTs you get.

------------
Barry King, KA1NLH
NRG Systems "Measuring the Wind's Energy"
http://www.nrgsystems.com
Check out the accumulated (PIC) wisdom of the ages at:
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.org

'[Admin] [OT] Spamming and Spamcop/Samspade'
2000\04\22@204754 by Mark Newland

flavicon
face
www.samspade.com isn't working for me

"William K. Borsum" wrote:

{Quote hidden}

2000\04\22@210905 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Quite true - I've been trying to reach Steve (who runs the site) about
that, as I have another 10pins.com SPAM to LART;  I didn't get to
posting to the list about it yet.  While his site usually works quite
well, right now it's quite DOA (I get 97 bytes and it hangs, error
messages, or some other unusual, "bad" result.)  Give it a day, Steve
will fix it.  I've e-mailed him from 2 different e-mail accounts so he
should know soon if not already (I'll post to a mutual friend shortly if
no reply from him.)  Could just be us Seattle-area PICsters that're
having problems.

 Mark

Mark Newland wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

2000\04\22@234137 by James Michael Newton

picon face
spamcop is a more commercial and more stable service which is why I use it.
Mark uses samspade and will undoubtedly have more information on the outage.
Either will get the job done.

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
EraseMEjamesnewton.....spamKILLspampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

2000\04\23@070244 by Martin G. McCormick

flavicon
face
       We've got a problem, all right.  I tried the address of

http://www.samspade.com

from North Central Oklahoma and the error that I got was simply that
the domain name system couldn't find any host by that name,
specifically http://www.samspade.com.  I then used whois to find out about
the domain of samspade.com and did find a record in the San Francisco
area.  It lists domain name servers for his domain so I did a nslookup
for http://www.samspade.com through rome.netjet.com which is his primary
domain name server.  That's basically going to the horse's mouth for
the information.  I got:

Server:  rome.netjet.com
Address:  209.24.233.242

*** rome.netjet.com can't find http://www.samspade.com: Non-existent host/domain

       This means that, for some reason, the records that might point
us to the site in question are not in the name server that is
officially mapped as being authoritative for samspade.com.  There are
lots of reasons why this might have happened, but that would just be
pure speculation.  That, however, is why you can't get to the site.

       This, by the way, is my day job so I never thought what I do
for OSU would have much value on the PIC list, but I am responsible
for running our domain name servers and am familiar with this kind of
problem.:-)

Martin McCormick WB5AGZ  Stillwater, OK
OSU Center for Computing and Information Services Data Communications Group
Mark Willis writes:
>Quite true - I've been trying to reach Steve (who runs the site) about
>that, as I have another 10pins.com SPAM to LART;  I didn't get to
>posting to the list about it yet.  While his site usually works quite
>well, right now it's quite DOA (I get 97 bytes and it hangs, error
>messages, or some other unusual, "bad" result.)  Give it a day, Steve
>will fix it.

2000\04\23@114808 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Try http://samspade.org/, that's working from here, right now.

I don't think Steve supports the www prefix, you could bug him but I
just use the samspade.org address, myself.

The best solution for this sort of situation usually is to try the root
name (as in just using samspade.org) without the bottom level domain
name (i.e. www) - sometimes someone has a main server named
web.domain.tld, or something like that;  www is "usually" what's used
but not the only possibility.

(tld stands for "top level domain", fwiw.)

 Mark

Martin G. McCormick wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

'[Admin] Watch the HTML, folks!'
2000\04\30@133238 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
There's been an awful LOT of HTML posts to the PICList lately.

That's off charter for this list, folks!

Please just post plain text to this list.  All those paying for the
minute for their phone connection, and those like myself with a limited
sized mailbox, thank those who stay in plain ASCII.

 Mark

'[Admin] piclist thread ordering'
2000\04\30@135557 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
I've looked at some of the threads on the piclist "website",
and noticed lots of times individual responses are very much
out of order, by as much as 2-3 days. So, if you follow down
thru a thread by clicking on "next in thread", you often go
all over the place. Am wondering why this is so ???????

'[Admin] Watch the HTML, folks!'
2000\04\30@175544 by Arthur

flavicon
face
Watch out when responding to a posted item that is in HTML
I have plain text set as option but just found out if you respond to a HTML
you post is converted to HTML
Sorry for this but will check before sending next time

Art

{Original Message removed}

'[Admin] piclist thread ordering'
2000\04\30@183202 by ssemjaco

picon face
I think tihs is due to a number of reasons:

#1 e-mails get their timestamp when you hit the send button in the e-mail editor, not when you actually send it. So, if you type your responds when you recive your e-mail but doesn't actually send it till you check for e-mail next time then your timestamp will be different from the time the server gets the e-mail.

#2 Timezones. This list has got members all over the world, so the time will be set different around the world.

#3 People don't set their computerclock


Regards
Stein Sem-Jacobsen
Norway

> I've looked at some of the threads on the piclist "website",
> and noticed lots of times individual responses are very much
> out of order, by as much as 2-3 days. So, if you follow down
> thru a thread by clicking on "next in thread", you often go
> all over the place. Am wondering why this is so ???????

2000\04\30@185458 by paulb

flavicon
face
Stein Sem-Jacobsen wrote:

> #1 e-mails get their timestamp when you hit the send button in the
> e-mail editor, not when you actually send it.

 Which is exactly as it should be.

 Everyone understands, or should, that not everyone received each reply
at the same time and so some replies *will* be made even though another
reply, not presently visible to the first respondent, has already
covered the territory.

> #2 Timezones. This list has got members all over the world, so the
> time will be set different around the world.

 Does not apply.  The time your browser indicates to you has been
corrected to your own timezone; same should apply to the archive.  The
message itself states the local time, *and* in which timezone that was.

> #3 People don't set their computerclock

 *And* timezone.  There's no answer to that one!
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

2000\04\30@190718 by Arthur

flavicon
face
And down to your provider  who delivers late mail *No First and 2nd Class
Stamp* needed.
My provider is having a bad time the amount of compliants they get.
Art
{Original Message removed}

'[Admin] Watch the HTML, folks!'
2000\04\30@190928 by David Lions

flavicon
face
Can't the server convert it?

At 10:31 AM 4/30/00 -0700, you wrote:
>There's been an awful LOT of HTML posts to the PICList lately.
>
>That's off charter for this list, folks!
>
>Please just post plain text to this list.  All those paying for the
>minute for their phone connection, and those like myself with a limited
>sized mailbox, thank those who stay in plain ASCII.
>
>  Mark
>
>

David Lions
Lab Technician
Miva Communications
Ph: +61-2-9906-2277
Fax: +61-2-9906-4818

'[Admin] piclist thread ordering'
2000\04\30@194115 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
Well, I know about timezones and datelines and clock settings
[mine is correct, BTW], but if you look at the following list
you'll see that somehow Paul Webster got his sunday posting into
the list above my own thursday posting, etc/etc.

And, I realize rank and education does have its privileges [and
that matters of privilege are taken *very* seriously troughout
the former British empire - and not that I am complaining about
this state of affairs], but still I was just wondering.

Maybe it's just *my* postings that are out of line [karma?].
=================

[OT] TRANSPUTERS WF (Thu Apr 27 2000 - 10:06:54 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS M. Adam Davis (Thu Apr 27 2000 - 11:35:09 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS WF (Thu Apr 27 2000 - 11:34:29 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS Dan Michaels (Thu Apr 27 2000 - 12:46:51 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS M. Adam Davis (Thu Apr 27 2000 - 13:04:43 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS WF (Thu Apr 27 2000 - 15:04:20 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS Wagner Lipnharski (Thu Apr 27 2000 - 19:12:42 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS WF (Fri Apr 28 2000 - 09:19:29 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS M. Adam Davis (Fri Apr 28 2000 - 10:04:35 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS WF (Fri Apr 28 2000 - 10:06:36 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS Paul B. Webster VK2BZC (Sun Apr 30 2000 - 01:55:40 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS Dan Michaels (Thu Apr 27 2000 - 23:19:10 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS WF (Fri Apr 28 2000 - 09:29:31 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS Alan B Pearce (Fri Apr 28 2000 - 00:50:19 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS Dan Michaels (Fri Apr 28 2000 - 07:50:33 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] PIC names..wasTRANSPUTERS Lance Allen (Sun Apr 30 2000 - 15:45:02
PDT)
ðRe: [OT] PIC names..wasTRANSPUTERS Dan Michaels (Sun Apr 30 2000 - 16:25:20
PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS Dipperstein, Michael (Fri Apr 28 2000 - 09:42:26 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS Alan B Pearce (Fri Apr 28 2000 - 09:51:06 PDT)
ðRe: [OT] TRANSPUTERS Dan Michaels (Fri Apr 28 2000 - 10:20:52 PDT)

2000\04\30@215442 by Mike Werner

picon face
On Sun, Apr 30, 2000 at 05:39:11PM -0600, Dan Michaels wrote:
> Well, I know about timezones and datelines and clock settings
> [mine is correct, BTW], but if you look at the following list
> you'll see that somehow Paul Webster got his sunday posting into
> the list above my own thursday posting, etc/etc.
>
> And, I realize rank and education does have its privileges [and
> that matters of privilege are taken *very* seriously troughout
> the former British empire - and not that I am complaining about
> this state of affairs], but still I was just wondering.
>
> Maybe it's just *my* postings that are out of line [karma?].

Nope.  What you are seeing is the effect of "threading".
Unfortunately, the way the archive presents its lists, the
threads are not very clear.  However, perhaps I can make it
clear through the following:
[WARNING - view this with a fixed-width font, or it probably ]
[          won't make the least bit of sense.                ]

2706     04/27 WF              (0.8K) [PICLIST] [OT] TRANSPUTERS
                                     |
2707     04/27 M. Adam Davis   (1.2K) |->
                                     | |
2708     04/27 WF              (1.5K) | |->
                                     |
2709     04/27 Dan Michaels    (0.7K) |*>
                                     | |
2710     04/27 M. Adam Davis   (0.2K) | |->
                                     | |
2711     04/27 WF              (0.9K) | |->
                                     |
2712     04/27 Wagner Lipnhars (1.8K) |->
                                     | |
2713     04/28 WF              (2.8K) | |->
                                     |   |
2714     04/28 M. Adam Davis   (0.3K) |   |->
                                     |   | |
2715     04/28 WF              (0.5K) |   | |->
                                     |   |
2716     04/30 Paul B. Webster (0.4K) |   |->
                                     |
2717     04/28 Dan Michaels    (0.5K) |*>
                                     | |
2718     04/28 WF              (0.8K) | |->
                                     |
2719     04/28 Alan B Pearce   (0.2K) |*>
                                     |
2720     04/28 Dan Michaels    (0.7K) |*>
                                     | |
2721     05/01 Lance Allen     (0.6K) | |->Re: [PICLIST] [OT] PIC names..wasTRANSPUTERS
                                     |   |
2722     04/30 Dan Michaels    (0.5K) |   |*>
                                     |
2723     04/28 Dipperstein, Mi (3.5K) |*>
                                     |
2724     04/28 Alan B Pearce   (0.1K) |*>
                                     |
2725     04/28 Dan Michaels    (1.2K) |*>

What I've done here is (try to, anyway) reproduce the way that
the thread goes together.  When a threading mail client sorts
out a batch of messages by thread it will look not only at what
the message's time stamp is, it will also look at what message, if
any, it is *replying* to.  Some email programs show this in a
graphical format - the one I use does.  And what I tried to
reproduce here is an ASCII art picture of the way that the
thread runs.  This is actually nothing more than a slightly
modified copy-and-paste out of the email client that I use.

And so, as you can see the reason that Paul Webster's message
came before yours was simply the result of the threading, and
not anything mysterious or karmic.
--
Mike Werner  KA8YSD           |  "Where do you want to go today?"
ICQ# 12934898                 |  "As far from Redmond as possible!"
'91 GS500E                    |
Morgantown WV                 |  Only dead fish go with the flow.


'[Admin] piclist thread ordering'
2000\05\01@002143 by Dan Michaels
flavicon
face
Mike Werner wrote:
..........
>What I've done here is (try to, anyway) reproduce the way that
>the thread goes together.  When a threading mail client sorts
>out a batch of messages by thread it will look not only at what
>the message's time stamp is, it will also look at what message, if
>any, it is *replying* to.  Some email programs show this in a
.........
>And so, as you can see the reason that Paul Webster's message
>came before yours was simply the result of the threading, and
>not anything mysterious or karmic.
>--

Thanks mucho grande, Mike, your diagram sorted it all out [no
pun intended]. So much for my new theory of the privileged
classes.

best regards,
- Dan Michaels

2000\05\01@083513 by Russell McMahon

picon face
>Well, I know about timezones and datelines and clock settings
>[mine is correct, BTW], but if you look at the following list
>you'll see that somehow Paul Webster got his sunday posting into
>the list above my own thursday posting, etc/etc.


I have even higher precedence than Paul.
My postings rate a 2 hour priority over his (along with all other NZ
PICListers).
The sun may never set on the British Empire but it shines here first :-)


     Russell McMahon
_____________________________

>From other worlds - http://www.easttimor.com
                               http://www.sudan.com

What can one man* do?
Help the hungry at no cost to yourself!
at  http://www.thehungersite.com/

(* - or woman, child or internet enabled intelligent entity :-))

2000\05\01@103050 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
Russell McMahon wrote:
>>Well, I know about timezones and datelines and clock settings
>>[mine is correct, BTW], but if you look at the following list
>>you'll see that somehow Paul Webster got his sunday posting into
>>the list above my own thursday posting, etc/etc.
>
>
>I have even higher precedence than Paul.
>My postings rate a 2 hour priority over his (along with all other NZ
>PICListers).
>The sun may never set on the British Empire but it shines here first :-)
>

Heh, heh, someone did catch my drift after all.

'[Admin] Watch the HTML, folks!'
2000\05\01@185126 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
There are a LOT of things we wish the L-Soft list engine would do, AFAIK
this is on the "Wish it would but it doesn't" list, so far.  I'll
re-check, perhaps the latest version has it;  I thought I checked.

 Mark

David Lions wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'[ADMIN] repro default changed'
2000\05\03@125020 by jamesnewton

picon face
Just a quick note to let everyone know and to say thanks to Mike Werner who
was able to figure out how to change the default on the list server so that
new subscribers WILL see their own posts echoed back to them by default.
Thanks Mike! He really has a strange and wonderful ability to read arcane
documentation.

Hopefully, this will cut down on the "is anyone getting my posts" posts.

I've noticed that despite passing the 2000 member mark, the PICList is
seeing a lot fewer "unsubscribble" posts, also thanks to Mike changing the
less than totally useful default "welcome" message sent by the list server
to new subscribers.

List of things the list server can't do that we would like:
- reject HTML Posts (Please, try not to post in HTML)
- strip attachments or cache them at a web page (adding a link to the
message)
- virus scan (probably not necessary if the previous two could be done)

Please send other ideas to me directly:
spamjamesnewtonspampiclist.com

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
jamesnewtonSTOPspamspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

'[admin] Is Scenix OT?'
2000\05\14@114257 by Don

flavicon
face
I'm  curious about the scenix chips, but don't know if its off topic?
Seems it wouldnt be since its sort of a clone of a pic chip, but then
again, it has some differences in the registers and the
programming method.

Don

2000\05\14@125750 by James Michael Newton

picon face
As a PIC clone, the Scenix is not off topic. I suppose if anyone wanted to
nitPIC <GRIN> features of the SX that are above and beyond the PIC are
probably off topic unless we are talking about how to do the same thing on
the PIC.

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
jamesnewtonSTOPspamspamKILLspampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

'[Admin] Repeat Messages'
2000\05\14@163623 by Josh Koffman

flavicon
face
Is anyone else getting copies of posts to the PICList that were sent
last week or maybe a bit before? I keep getting messages with dates that
are old,  and I even remember reading them. Is this a problem on my end
or is this happening to anyone else?

Josh Koffman
@spam@joshy.....spamspammb.sympatico.ca

2000\05\14@173933 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
<x-flowed>At 03:19 PM 5/14/00 -0500, Josh Koffman wrote:
>Is anyone else getting copies of posts to the PICList that were sent
>last week or maybe a bit before? I keep getting messages with dates that
>are old,  and I even remember reading them. Is this a problem on my end
>or is this happening to anyone else?
>
>Josh Koffman
>spamjoshy.....spam.....mb.sympatico.ca

Yep.  Here is a portion of one of the offending message's header

X-Warning: mitvma.mit.edu: Host smtp.arrakis.es claimed to be
           ssmtp02.melange.isp

dwayne



Dwayne Reid   <dwayner.....spamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 16 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2000)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited
commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email.

</x-flowed>

2000\05\14@214952 by Ian Wilkinson

flavicon
face
On Sun, 14 May 2000 in "[Admin] Repeat Messages", you wrote:
>Is anyone else getting copies of posts to the PICList that were sent
>last week or maybe a bit before? I keep getting messages with dates that
>are old,  and I even remember reading them. Is this a problem on my end
>or is this happening to anyone else?
>

Yes, I'm getting them from a while ago.
MY e-mail client sorts mail into time order that it was Sent, not when I
recieve it so I get posts all over the place...

for example I got this twice...
FW: [OT][ADMIN] NO MORE HTML!!!
From: "Severson, Rob"
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 11:02:51 -0500

and this
[OT] need SX52BD programmer...
From: Vasile Surducan
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:28:59 +0000

and
Re: very [OT] linux masquerading a lan
From: Alan B Pearce
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 09:37:15 +0100

and
Re: very [OT] linux masquerading a lan
From: Mark Willis
To: KILLspamPICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 01:24:29 -0700

I thought it was something I had done...

Ian.
--
A pair of feckin' women's knickers!
- Father Jack

Uptime at 12:23am  up  2:14,  4 users,

2000\05\15@033421 by Michael Rigby-Jones

flavicon
face
> On Sun, 14 May 2000 in "[Admin] Repeat Messages", you wrote:
> >Is anyone else getting copies of posts to the PICList that were sent
> >last week or maybe a bit before? I keep getting messages with dates that
> >are old,  and I even remember reading them. Is this a problem on my end
> >or is this happening to anyone else?
> >
>
I've been on the list for quite a while now (2 years ish) and this seems to
be an almost regular feature.  I'm sure Mark dealt with this the last time.

Mike

2000\05\15@041437 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
it is a bit disconcerting to realise that a couple of the repeated messages are
your own, and know that it is a while since they were sent. Just a possible
pointer - it seemed to me that the repeated messages referred to topics where
somebody posted a new message - is the archiving software getting screwed up
when trying to add a message to a thread causing it to repeat old messages?
this may be an invalid pointer as I have not done a proper investigation along
this line, but it was an impression I got that is possibly worth investigating.

2000\05\15@052839 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Nope.  Someone's e-mail server's sending incoming posts back to the list
somehow, and the entire list then receives the post again.  Annoying,
isn't it!?  I think Mike fixed this one already.

 Mark

Alan B Pearce wrote:
> it is a bit disconcerting to realise that a couple of the repeated messages are
> your own, and know that it is a while since they were sent. Just a possible
> pointer - it seemed to me that the repeated messages referred to topics where
> somebody posted a new message - is the archiving software getting screwed up
> when trying to add a message to a thread causing it to repeat old messages?
> this may be an invalid pointer as I have not done a proper investigation along
> this line, but it was an impression I got that is possibly worth investigating.

'[ADMIN] Rejected post'
2000\05\17@231554 by Jinx

face picon face
Never had one returned until the very next mail pick-up after I
deleted the address to send it on to. What was it again please ?

2000\05\18@052500 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
It would seem that the rejected posts are all echoes from someone who has had
their access to the list cut off by their employer. I have had a bounce with the
same destination three times this morning, and all included this address line.


>Return-Path: <spam_OUTowner-piclistspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Apparently-To: .....dave.....spamRemoveMEDIGILOG.CO.UK
>Delivered-To: spam_OUTe7df6e19-daveTakeThisOuTspamEraseMEDIGILOG.CO.UK
>Received: (qmail 17139 invoked from network); 18 May 2000 09:07:45 -0000

2000\05\18@102111 by paulb

flavicon
face
Alan B Pearce wrote:

> It would seem that the rejected posts are all echoes from someone who
> has had their access to the list cut off by their employer.

> >Apparently-To: EraseMEdavespamBeGonespamKILLspamDIGILOG.CO.UK
> >Delivered-To: RemoveMEe7df6e19-davespamBeGonespamspamDIGILOG.CO.UK

 You're dead right about the mechanism.  Not so much about their list
access, it's generally their e-mail account in toto.

 It was reported to the admins a couple of days ago - not sure why they
haven't killed it yet except to say they're busy guys and some of these
things are due to strange mail reflections which are difficult to track.

 I'm not sure for example whether the listserver puts unique IDs on to
each copy of each message it resends or how easy it is to match these
logs again if they cause a bounce.

 The important thing is that until the bogus message the listserver
returns to the original sender is fixed, which I am assured it will be
:) soon, that senders do *NOT* re-send any messages.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

2000\05\18@112735 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:
> Alan B Pearce wrote:
> > It would seem that the rejected posts are all echoes from someone who
> > has had their access to the list cut off by their employer.
>
> > >Apparently-To: @spam@davespamspamDIGILOG.CO.UK
> > >Delivered-To: TakeThisOuTe7df6e19-daveKILLspamspam@spam@DIGILOG.CO.UK
>
>   You're dead right about the mechanism.  Not so much about their list
> access, it's generally their e-mail account in toto.

Mail servers can get messed up - He's working the problem.  Switching to
"Apparently-To" for passing messages should fix it (Think it should be
fixed now?)

>   It was reported to the admins a couple of days ago - not sure why they
> haven't killed it yet except to say they're busy guys and some of these
> things are due to strange mail reflections which are difficult to track.

We're hardly the "Avenging Budgie" type - Family humor from childhood
when my sisters' dingbat Budgie decided, for some bird-brained reason,
to try to harass the family calico, dive bombing her repeatedly.  My
sister thought it was funny, at least until "Hoody" (Houdina Hacksaw,
long story!), CAUGHT her bird, and she had to rescue it before Hoody ate
it! <G>  I use the term for some small-minded petty tyrants - You know,
the pointy-haired kind =)

We (usually at least!) try to be patient and get peoples' attention,
then get the cause of the problem solved, fairly quickly - should be
solved now.  (We do have bad days, doesn't everyone?)

BTW, folks - If/When you do get Bounces like this, if you pass full
headers to me (or other Admins, I think James and Mike read headers as
well), or to the <.....piclist-requestRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> address, I'll get at
the cause and bug them.  Or they will.

One common solution we try is to Set "Digest" mode on people where this
is happening - Seems to work as then there's no "Sender" and we don't
see multiple PICList members unhappy.  So, if you have a personal home
e-mail snagging server and get suddenly set to Digest, please check for
e-mail from an Admin before just setting it back to Mail NoDigest, see
if there's a problem - We don't change peoples' subscription settings
for NO reason, and, we e-mail you to try to tell you what the problem
IS, before doing anything like that!

>   I'm not sure for example whether the listserver puts unique IDs on to
> each copy of each message it resends or how easy it is to match these
> logs again if they cause a bounce.

The List Engine, *Used* to include a comment "X-Passed-To" (? or
something like that), in the headers - The latest revision has some GOOD
improvements, but, they removed that line from the output, Drat!  When
tracking these, full headers are necessary, but now they just point me
at the proper ISP, don't necessarily tell me which of several people
there it is - Most of us are 1 to an ISP, fortunately - so usually
works, but I'll ask L-Soft to undo their removing that, it was HANDY
<G>  Also will ask them to just plain NOT send a "Duplicate" message in
this situation, just throw the message away if they've already sent it
out...

>   The important thing is that until the bogus message the listserver
> returns to the original sender is fixed, which I am assured it will be
> :) soon, that senders do *NOT* re-send any messages.

Exactly!  The problem's that the list sends a message out to us all -
someone's (at home, slightly misconfigured) e-mail server bounces a copy
back to the "Send to whole list" address - and the L-Soft list engine
then rejects it, mistakenly sending a message TO the original sender,
thinking the original sender posted it twice;  Want to get both causes
of this fixed, not the symptoms!

> --
>   Cheers,
>         Paul B.

2000\05\18@132834 by jamesnewton

face picon face
We did kill it, and emailed Dave to tell him why. Yesterday, he said he had
it fixed and resubscribed. It isn't fixed so he has been dumped again and
told why.

Paul, your suggested replacement for the listserver message looks ok, but
I'd like to tone the sarcasm down a bit, and discus it with the other list
admins first.

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
KILLspamjamesnewtonspamTakeThisOuTpiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

2000\05\18@185619 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
We're checking - Mike's afraid that LSoft hard-coded the message,
sadly.  I'll be writing a note to L-Soft suggesting some mods!

 Mark

James Newton wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

'[Admin] Some new addresses for list functions'
2000\05\19@155444 by Mike Werner

picon face
In poking through some more of the documentation for the list
server, I ran across some additional addresses that exist.
As it turns out, there are addresses specifically for
subscribing and unsubscribing.

To subscribe, you can use:
RemoveMEpiclist-subscribe-requestspamspamSTOPspammitvma.mit.edu

To unsubscribe, you can use either of:
.....piclist-unsubscribe-requestEraseMEspammitvma.mit.edu> spamBeGonepiclist-signoff-requestspamRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu

Nothing need be in the subject or the body.  Just a blank
message sent to the address will suffice.

Not that we *want* anyone to leave, but for those that must
leave for whatever reason there's now an easier way to do so.
--
Mike Werner  KA8YSD           |  "Where do you want to go today?"
                             |  "As far from Redmond as possible!"
'91 GS500E                    |
Morgantown WV                 |  Only dead fish go with the flow.

'[ADMIN] New list feature implemented'
2000\05\22@232741 by Mike Werner

picon face
Greetings folks.  As you may remember the list admins have
been considering implementing topics on this list.  For those
that might have missed the original post from James Newton,
here's the first part of it again:

<James_newton_quote>
We (the list admins) have found a new feature in the list server software
that may provide a much better way of handling on and off topic (and sort of
off topic, etc..) posts. It would cause the list to work a bit differently
and might cause some confusion at first so we want to explain it and get
some feedback from the list on how best to implement it.

The new version of the list server can track "topics" by looking for
keywords or tags at the start of the subject line (after skipping past the
fw: or re:). It will then filter posts FOR the list members according to
which topics they wish to receive. For example, if we set the possible
topics to:
[PIC], [EE], [OT], and [AD]
we can set "topics of interest to subscribers" to [PIC] only and you will
only see posts with subject lines that start with "[PIC]:" (or "re: [PIC]:"
or "FW: [PIC]:" etc...). Of course you can send a simple command to the list
server that "turns on" the other topics as well. For example if you also
wanted to see [EE] posts (not directly related to the PIC, but still about
engineering) you could send:
.....LISTSERVEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU?body=SET PICLIST TOPICS: +[EE]
</James_newton_quote>

Well, we finally decided to go ahead and do it.  The results as
reported by James were overall in favor of this.  And it has now
been done.  Those currently subscribed to the PICList need not
worry about missing any posts - you're settings have been automatically
changed by the server to receive all topics.  If you decide you
wish to not receive a certain topic, you may do so by sending:
spamLISTSERVspam_OUTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU?body=SET PICLIST TOPICS: -[EE]
for example, if you wanted to not receive the EE topic.

The topics that have been implemented are the same four as listed by
James.  But as a reiteration, they are:
[PIC] - this is for posts that are about PICs
[EE] - this is for posts that are not necessarily about PICs, but
      are still of interest to the EE community.  An example post
      that would fit this topic would be discussion of the Scenix
      chip.  Or any other microcontroller, for that matter.
[AD] - this is for advertisements of a commercial product or service
[OT] - this is for the way out there stuff. Remember the chicken
      catapult thread?  This is were that thread would go.

Actually, there is a fifth topic.  That one is called Other.  This
topic is where the server puts posts that are either unlabelled or
labelled with a label that the server doesn't recognize.

We understand that this'll be a bit confusing at first.  But we
think that once everyone gets the hang of this, it'll make life
for everyone a little easier.
--
Mike Werner  KA8YSD           |  "Where do you want to go today?"
                             |  "As far from Redmond as possible!"
'91 GS500E                    |
Morgantown WV                 |  Only dead fish go with the flow.

'[ADMIN] [READ THIS] Last try for topics'
2000\05\25@141426 by jamesnewton

picon face
Ok, last time, then we just dump it...

SUBJECT LINES IN POSTS TO THE PICLIST NEED TO START WITH ONE OF:

[PIC]:
[EE]:
[OT]:
[AD]:

If you don't use one of these, other people will not see your posts. People
who are interested only in the PIC itself listen to [PIC], people who are
also interested in general engineering issues also listen to [EE] and people
who are also interested in anything PICListers have to say also listen to
[OT]. People who are interested in buying or selling also listen to [AD].
Please pick one that matches the subject of your post and type it at the
start of the subject line (don't forget the colon) and then continue.

The point of this is that it will reduce the likelihood of people posting
comments about the space program with [PIC]: at the start of the subject
line. Then you can tell the list server to only send [PIC]: topics. Also
reduces the workload for the VOLUNTEER, UNPAID, ADMINS (HINT, HINT) <GLARE>

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
spamjamesnewton@spam@spamSTOPspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

2000\05\25@150701 by Quentin

flavicon
face
I still think you are going to have a tough time convincing people to
post a PIC topic to a PIC list with a [PIC] header. Drop that one and
police the people who post a non PIC message to the list rather.

Quentin

2000\05\25@151530 by jamesnewton

face picon face
It would remove the reminder of having typed [PIC]: which many people need
to be able to realize "hey, this really isn't about PICs, is it?"

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
spamBeGonejamesnewtonspamBeGonespam@spam@piclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[RemoveMEPICLISTRemoveMEspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Quentin
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 12:04
To: PICLISTKILLspamspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [ADMIN] [READ THIS] Last try for topics


I still think you are going to have a tough time convincing people to
post a PIC topic to a PIC list with a [PIC] header. Drop that one and
police the people who post a non PIC message to the list rather.

Quentin

2000\05\25@155116 by jamesnewton

face picon face
And this may have been a bad idea...

...so if it doesn't work out, we will dump it.

I'm just getting very tired of constantly reminding people to mark off topic
posts.

Because, you see, the way it has ALWAYS been involves someone manually
looking at each post (that is me) and then saying (privately, to the poster)
"Hey, what the hell does that have to do with PICs and why are you wasting
everyone's time" and then they say "Oh, right, sorry I forgot" and hopefully
they remember for a week or two until they need to post another question
about Linux (or pick a non-PIC subject) again.

The DIFFERENT way, if they post with out thinking, they will get ONE reply
from the autoresponder saying "Um, didn't you want to post on a given
topic?"

I just wish there was a way to allow people to talk about whatever with the
good and interesting people of the list without them constantly
(accidentally, or whatever) stepping on the need of others to limit their
reading to posts that are actually about PICs.

Forcing everyone to type [PIC]: at the start of the subject line ensures
that they know they are about to write something directly related to the
PIC, while still allowing them to type [OT]: and then talk about UFO's.

<WHINE>But if its too much, then its too much.... 5 little character
characters they can't type</WHINE>

<GRIN>

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
spam_OUTjamesnewton@spam@spampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

2000\05\25@155309 by jamesnewton

picon face
Your point is well taken, but if people are "allowed" to post with out a
topic there are two problems....

1) newbies, etc.. who forget that they need to assign a topic will not get
thier post seen by the PIC only people. They will go away thinking no-one
wanted or could help them. I plan to start an autoresponder that reminds
people to TAG subject lines when they post without one.

2) if a bunch of people are posting interesting things to the non-topic
area, people who want to hear that will start wondering what they are
missing and turn it back on. "Oh, we just answered that on the non-topic
channel, don't you subscribe to that?"

But if the way we are talking about now, doesn't work out, I'll be happy to
try something else.

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
TakeThisOuTjamesnewtonspam_OUTspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

'[AD]: TCP/IP SEIKO STARTER KIT (USING THE PARALLEL'
2000\05\26@143352 by WF

flavicon
face
Here some pictures... ;) of my STARTER KIT

http://www.blusoft.org.br/wf/tcp_ip/

Miguel

Cost: U$97,00 + SHIPMENT

Some features added today....

-BASIC Routine for Read and Write of Seiko Registers in VB, MSC, Delphi and
Cbuilder
-Jumper for redirect the pin PIC for SEIKO
-Pins for external Programming of PIC
-DB9 and DB25 modem output
-Power Supply
-Parallel Cable
-Input For PIC programming compatibled with PROPIC

In production 50 units...

Miguel

2000\05\26@152941 by Andrew Seddon

picon face
> Here some pictures... ;) of my STARTER KIT

I see you have protel autoroute syndrome as well. I just can`t bring myself
to spend 2 days routing it myself when protel does an OK job in 5 minutes.

2000\05\26@162056 by WF

flavicon
face
No, i have the Specctra Autoroute 7.1, i did pay for it U$1245,00

Miguel

----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Seddon <KILLspamseddona.....spamTakeThisOuTHOTMAIL.COM>
To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTEraseMEspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 5:26 AM
Subject: [AD]: TCP/IP SEIKO STARTER KIT (USING THE PARALLEL PORT)


> > Here some pictures... ;) of my STARTER KIT
>
> I see you have protel autoroute syndrome as well. I just can`t bring
myself
> to spend 2 days routing it myself when protel does an OK job in 5 minutes.

'[ADMIN] [READ THIS] Last try for topics'
2000\05\26@191410 by Russell McMahon

picon face
Can you make the autoresponder send back an appropriate response to anything
that doesn't have a standard [xxx] in the header while still letting it
through, at least for a trial period.?

Waddabout [ADMIN]???
I assumed AD was ADvertisement.

What about [RELIGION] :-) :-) :-) :-)  ?

I've been skimming threads and ignoring much stuff lately - too busy (or I
should be) so I hadn't really appreciated that this was being tried - I had
noticed especially [EE] and wondered why it was being done even though I
realsied what was meant. Shows you need to bring it to people's attention at
least a little forcibly.




     Russell McMahon
_____________________________

From other worlds - http://www.easttimor.com
                               http://www.sudan.com

What can one man* do?
Help the hungry at no cost to yourself!
at  http://www.thehungersite.com/

(* - or woman, child or internet enabled intelligent entity :-))


{Original Message removed}

2000\05\26@191414 by Russell McMahon

picon face
Can you make the autoresponder send back an appropriate response to anything
that doesn't have a standard [xxx] in the header while still letting it
through, at least for a trial period.?

Waddabout [ADMIN]???
I assumed AD was ADvertisement.

What about [RELIGION] :-) :-) :-) :-)  ?



     Russell McMahon
_____________________________

From other worlds - http://www.easttimor.com
                               http://www.sudan.com

What can one man* do?
Help the hungry at no cost to yourself!
at  http://www.thehungersite.com/

(* - or woman, child or internet enabled intelligent entity :-))


{Original Message removed}

2000\05\27@033932 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Russell McMahon wrote:
> Can you make the autoresponder send back an appropriate response to anything
> that doesn't have a standard [xxx] in the header while still letting it
> through, at least for a trial period.?

We're talking still.  I think we'll be posting about this shortly, I've
been gone all day & am catching up on e-mail <G>

> Waddabout [ADMIN]???
> I assumed AD was ADvertisement.

We're trying to train him <G>  We may use [META]: for discussions about
the list (including Admin stuff), there's another tag that we Admins can
use that we could also switch to instead of [Admin] anyways, we'll
figure out a good answer.

> What about [RELIGION] :-) :-) :-) :-)  ?

That one'll get ya shot at, dunno if James will miss or not.  We've had
enough religious strife here, probably...

 Mark

{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2000\05\27@120424 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
Russell McMahon wrote:
>Can you make the autoresponder send back an appropriate response to anything
>that doesn't have a standard [xxx] in the header while still letting it
>through, at least for a trial period.?
>
>Waddabout [ADMIN]???
>I assumed AD was ADvertisement.
>
>What about [RELIGION] :-) :-) :-) :-)  ?
>
.........

[RELIGION] definitely [NO!!!!] - not tekkie.

[ECHELON] maybe - helps the gov't boys more easily find threads
that may be subversive.

How about [NEWTON] - just kidding <:-)))).

2000\05\28@071741 by Alan B Pearce

face picon face
>How about [NEWTON] - just kidding <:-)))).

Well you could use this to signify the admin thread <:-)))).

2000\05\28@152734 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
[JORY] would object =)

 Mark

Alan B Pearce wrote:
> >How about [NEWTON] - just kidding <:-)))).
>
> Well you could use this to signify the admin thread <:-)))).

'[AD]: New DT209 SimmStick Expansion board now avai'
2000\05\29@230233 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
30-May-2000
New DT209 SimmStick Expansion board now available.

DT209 I/O Expansion Board on a SimmStick This board utilizes three I2C
bus expansion integrated circuits to provide a total of 24 expansion
lines. Each of the three port chips provides 8 i/o lines. These 24 i/o
lines allow for input and output expansion without sacrificing any of
the general control lines on the SimmBus.
http://www.dontronics.com/dt209.html

This interfaces directly with the available SimmSticks for the PICmicro
18, 28, and 40 pin families.

Don McKenzie    spam_OUTdonRemoveMEspam.....dontronics.com      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

'[ADMIN] Did the filtering scheme get abandoned?'
2000\05\30@122047 by Don B. Roadman

flavicon
face
I'm still getting some posts marked [OT] after I used the new
commands to reject these posts. I'm wondering if it was
abandoned, or if I did something wrong. I did get a response from
the server indicating that the removal of [OT] was sucessfull, but
still get them (I dont know if I get all of them or not).

2000\05\30@140636 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
We are working on it - I was going to get a post out but got swamped
this weekend.

The problem that happens is that senders MUST send a post with "[OT]:"
for the filter to work properly - if that colon is not there, it's
classified as an "Other" category post.  Send the output of "Query
PICList" my way if you don't see how to turn off the other category (of
course, if you do that, you'll lose any post from someone who's not
properly setting theit topic - This post included!)

We need more education on the list, I need to get on it.

 Mark

Don B. Roadman wrote:
>
> I'm still getting some posts marked [OT] after I used the new
> commands to reject these posts. I'm wondering if it was
> abandoned, or if I did something wrong. I did get a response from
> the server indicating that the removal of [OT] was sucessfull, but
> still get them (I dont know if I get all of them or not).

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

'[AD] LCD Displays'
2000\05\30@203840 by mike

picon face
LCD displays from DELL laptop computers, still in
laptop cover.

Don't have any spec or info and don't know how to test
them, so I am selling "as is", each unit for $22 plus
shipping.
Have about 20 units. Free shipping if you take all.

email to <spamlktronKILLspamspamKILLspamyahoo.com> or call 323-972-7528




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/

'[ADMIN] [READ THIS] Last try for topics'
2000\05\31@112627 by jamesnewton

picon face
That is what I had intended as a permanent solution. Whether non tagged
messages are sent to members is up to each member, rather than to me or the
autoresponder. If you know what you are doing and you remove your
subscription to the OTHER: topic, you will no longer see non tagged
messages.

[ADMIN] will be sent to topic ALL: which is a special tag that sends the
message to all subscribers no matter what.

[RELIGION] could possibly be set up under [OT]: Lets get this working and
then talk again about it.

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
spamjamesnewtonspam_OUTspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}


'[ADMIN]: Subscription problems - Better solution?'
2000\06\03@181426 by Brian Gracia
flavicon
face
I have been unsubscribbed from this list a number of times in the last few
months.  I have been talking with the tech support staff and they cannot
find a problem with my account.  They are requesting a copy of any messages
that bounce so they can figure out what is going on.  Can you set up the
listserv software so that when you send me the notice saying I have been
unsubscribbed because of bounced emails, I can get a copy of the header
files and any messages from their server as to why.

I was lasted kicked off this list because of 2 emails bounces in several
days.  I could use some better help to determine what the problem might be
other than the standard message the list spits out.

Thanks,
Brian Gracia
********************************************
Better Produce through Better Control
********************************************

2000\06\03@191605 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Hi, Brian.  (Replied on list as other people may hit this sort of
problem.)

I don't know if getting at those headers is possible;  Mike is the
expert on L-Soft manuals and list settings that we admins CAN get at
<G>  We try to keep the number of messages we receive, somewhat down -
as it could mean another large bunch of "This message hasn't arrived
yet" etc. messages a day otherwise - the crew inside MIT handle a good
number of these settings, plus, most all PICList messages are actually
distributed through L-Soft's mail sending server - as we never see these
error messages, it's hard to figure out who to ask for a full-headers
copy (I'm not sure a human ever reads these!)  We don't even get a
message when a user's unsubscribed by the list for too many Bounce
messages, only way we can tell about that is to ask for a membership
roster of the list or specifics on a particular (ex-) list member.

I do know you can send a re-subscribe message on a regular basis (cron
and a mail sender daemon?), and the listserve will just tell you you're
already on the list most of the time, is one possibility, when you get a
subscription verification you'll know to answer it quickly, if you have
a mail auto-sender.

The problem's not going to be with your account, BTW - suggest to them
that they TraceRoute to cherry.ease.lsoft.com [209.119.0.109] as that's
likely the machine the messages come to you from - if it's a direct
connection, then probably their inbound SMTP server has problems and is
bouncing mail that arrives there from LSoft.  I cc'ed you on this to
hope that I could get a bounce, if I do I'll share the headers with you
(somehow <G>)

 Mark

Brian Gracia wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
I re-ship for small US & overseas businesses, world-wide.
(For private individuals at cost; ask.)

2000\06\03@205810 by Mike Werner

picon face
Mark Willis wrote:
> Hi, Brian.  (Replied on list as other people may hit this sort of
> problem.)
>
> I don't know if getting at those headers is possible;  Mike is the
> expert on L-Soft manuals and list settings that we admins CAN get at

::blush:: I wouldn't quite say that.

{Quote hidden}

I've set the server to pass me error messages.  Or, at least I *think*
I managed to do so.  As it currently stands, errors are being handled
in multiple locations, depending on the error.  So that'll make it a
bit tricky to find exactly what is happening with Brian's bounces.  But
I'll keep an eye on what error messages I get.  Brian, next time you
get unsubbed due to a bounce, email me directly to let me know.  My
address is:
STOPspamreznaeousspam_OUTspamspamBeGoneearthlink.net

{Quote hidden}

I tried to see if that was possible, but didn't have much luck.  The closest
I could find was how to send you *every* error and bounce that comes through.
But I figured you *really* didn't want that. ::grin::

> > I was lasted kicked off this list because of 2 emails bounces in several
> > days.  I could use some better help to determine what the problem might be
> > other than the standard message the list spits out.

We'll see what we can find out for you.  Hopefully something will turn
up in the messages I'll (hopefully) be receiving now.
--
Mike Werner  KA8YSD           |  "Where do you want to go today?"
                             |  "As far from Redmond as possible!"
'91 GS500E                    |
Morgantown WV                 |  Only dead fish go with the flow.

'[ADMIN]: Duplicate messages'
2000\06\05@134633 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
I think we have someone's mail server echoing messages, I am getting dupes
that are a couple of hours apart.

I am not able to see headers right now because of the convoluted way I get
mail at work, anyone else able to track it down?

BTW, I am not sending two copies of this message just to freak you out :-)

Cheers,

Bob

'[ADMIN]: All these tags...'
2000\06\05@142821 by Phillip Vogel

flavicon
face
What a pain in the butt. How about this for a possible scheme: The PICLIST is
for discussion of topics specifically related to PICs. Anything else should be
discussed in a different list or newsgroup.

C'mon, liquid level sensing? truck tachometers? These both had [PIC]: labels.
Unfused toner? yeah, maybe EE, but barely. It was MUCH quieter when I could
just filter out [OT].

If this doesn't make sense, then I suggest that we include tags for every
usenet newsgroup [alt.binaries.my.whole.hard.drive]:, [sci.electronics.cad]:
(now there's a novel place to talk about cad systems).

My point is, I subscribed to the PICLIST to get and share PIC information.
Mailing list software (and mail reading software) is just not sophisticated
enought to try to replace usenet, which is what you're trying to do with all
these tags. Sigh...
--
Phillip M. Vogel, President   | "It's not what you've been taught,
Bartal Design Group, Inc.     |  it's what you've learned." (me)
318 Marlboro Road             | +1-201-567-1343 FAX:+1-201-568-2891
Englewood, NJ 07631  USA      | spam_OUTphillipspamspamBeGonebartal.com

'[ADMIN]: All these tags are fine...'
2000\06\05@151850 by Chris Eddy

flavicon
face
Phillip;  We appreciate your thoughts on the matter.  But I think that the list
works magnificently!  The idea is to allow PIC people, who struggle through a long
list of disciplines, to have access to a fast forum to solve knowledge problems.
I think that James N is doing a great job of administering.  I think the tags are
fine, even though I will keep getting all of it anyhow.  I have gotten good at
swiping entire subjects when they do not interest me.

The PIClist is working stupendously well for an informal collection of
non-affiliated people.  I welcome improvements, and nothing to strip down the
content which already takes place.

I may be injecting personal preference, but I think that religion and politics
would be best elsewhere.  Unless a very religious PIC engineer is running for
office.  As we cover the globe, there is far too much oportunity to offend on
these topics.  I would not portend to lecture a Muslim on my beliefs.

All in favor, say EYE.

Chris Eddy

Phillip Vogel wrote:

> What a pain in the butt. How about this for a possible scheme: The PICLIST is
> for discussion of topics specifically related to PICs. Anything else should be
> discussed in a different list or newsgroup.

'[ADMIN]: All these tags...'
2000\06\05@153958 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
Well, you make some good points.  Unfortunately the PICList is growing, and as
the number of messages has increased (both on topic and off) we have had to deal
with more information.  Subdividing the current scheme (Two subdivisions:
Regular and [OT]) into a few more subdivisions has allowed me to deal with
messages more effectively.  Sometimes I have time to check [PIC] [EE] [OT], etc,
and sometimes I can only read a few [PIC].  Being able to tell the difference
right away (and thus giving first priority to piclist specific messages) has
helped me out.

But hey, I'm easy.  If the multiple topics idea receives a lot of bad comments,
it'll go the way of the dinosaur.  I can work either way.

-Adam

Phillip Vogel wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'[ADMIN]: All these tags are fine...'
2000\06\05@154412 by James Paul

flavicon
face
I tend to agree with Chris.   I think the list is fine the way it
is.  I also agree that there is a lot of chaff with the wheat, but
that's why there is a delete key with every computer.  You just
delete the posts that don't interest you.  I get well over 100
posts a day, most from the PIC list.  It takes me all of 5 minutes
to weed out the ones I have no interest in at all, if I take my time.
Less if I'm in a hurry.  Then I read those that do interest me.
The point is for the amount of effort it takes to delete all the
OT posts that you (I) don't want to see, it just doesn't make any
sense (to me anyway) to raise all this cane about things such as:

"make sure you put this in the subject line"  ...or..

"don't discuss this particular subject"  ..or..

"make sure all subjects are in this order"  ..or..

whatever it is.   It seems to me that more energy is spent (wasted)
in verbalizing what you should and shouldn't do than it would take
to delete those posts that are not on subjcet or specifically deal
with PIC processors.   Mind you I don't condone this type of
behavior.  And I think things should be done the correct way.
But, as far as I'm concerned, it's not worth the bother it would
take me to complain and make the other person comply.  Just as soon
as you get one person straightened out, two more appear.  It would
be a losing battle.


The knowledge of the members of this list is an awesome resource.
That knowledge and expertise comes at a price.  And in my opinion,
a very small price.  That price being you have to deal with the
posts that you are not interested in to get the information you
are interested in.   Come on people, what do you expect, really?
We live in an imperfect world, and no amount of complaining or
restructuring of protocol will make it perfect.  You can always
improve things, but they'll never be perfect.  This list is one of
those things.

Bottom line from my perspective...

I'll take the chaff with the wheat. I get rid of the chaff myself,
and live on the wheat.  No one need be the wiser.

I also think James is doing a fine job administering this list.

Last but not least, for those who want to give me their reasons
why I'm full of it regarding what I just said, address all emails
to EraseMEjimswrongRemoveMEspamjpes.com.   I'll read each one.   If requested, I'll
apologise to those that are offended by my statements.

Okay, I'm done now.


                                           Regards,

                                             Jim



On Mon, 05 June 2000, Chris Eddy wrote:

{Quote hidden}

.....jimspamspam_OUTjpes.com

2000\06\05@155032 by James Paul

flavicon
face
I tend to agree with Chris.   I think the list is fine the way it
is.  I also agree that there is a lot of chaff with the wheat, but
that's why there is a delete key with every computer.  You just
delete the posts that don't interest you.  I get well over 100
posts a day, most from the PIC list.  It takes me all of 5 minutes
to weed out the ones I have no interest in at all, if I take my time.
Less if I'm in a hurry.  Then I read those that do interest me.
The point is for the amount of effort it takes to delete all the
OT posts that you (I) don't want to see, it just doesn't make any
sense (to me anyway) to raise all this cane about things such as:

"make sure you put this in the subject line"  ...or..

"don't discuss this particular subject"  ..or..

"make sure all subjects are in this order"  ..or..

whatever it is.   It seems to me that more energy is spent (wasted)
in verbalizing what you should and shouldn't do than it would take
to delete those posts that are not on subjcet or specifically deal
with PIC processors.   Mind you I don't condone this type of
behavior.  And I think things should be done the correct way.
But, as far as I'm concerned, it's not worth the bother it would
take me to complain and make the other person comply.  Just as soon
as you get one person straightened out, two more appear.  It would
be a losing battle.


The knowledge of the members of this list is an awesome resource.
That knowledge and expertise comes at a price.  And in my opinion,
a very small price.  That price being you have to deal with the
posts that you are not interested in to get the information you
are interested in.   Come on people, what do you expect, really?
We live in an imperfect world, and no amount of complaining or
restructuring of protocol will make it perfect.  You can always
improve things, but they'll never be perfect.  This list is one of
those things.

Bottom line from my perspective...

I'll take the chaff with the wheat. I get rid of the chaff myself,
and live on the wheat.  No one need be the wiser.

I also think James is doing a fine job administering this list.

Last but not least, for those who want to give me their reasons
why I'm full of it regarding what I just said, address all emails
to @spam@jimswrongEraseMEspamspamjpes.com.   I'll read each one.   If requested, I'll
apologise to those that are offended by my statements.

Okay, I'm done now.


                                           Regards,

                                             Jim



On Mon, 05 June 2000, Chris Eddy wrote:

{Quote hidden}

jimTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamjpes.com

'[ADMIN]: All these tags...'
2000\06\05@155240 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Um... I don't understand why you can't still filter out [OT]...???? In fact,
you can filter out [EE] and [AD] as well now... isn't that better, not
worse? Also, you can tell the list server to filter them out for you.

I'd love to hear any specific suggestions on how we can make it better...

I certainly agree that a significant number of members are still not using
the tags as they should and not respecting other members time and/or desire
to stay on topic, but I don't know that removing the tags will improve the
situation. At least people actually have to type [PIC]: when they start a
thread and it should, at least once in a while, remind them that the [PIC]:
tag for PICs only. I'd like to hear your reasons for thinking that we are
better off without using....

[PIC]:
       This label is for posts that are strictly on the topic of PICs.

[EE]:
       This label is for topics that, while not necessarily about PICs, are of
general interest to the EE community.

[AD]:
       This label is for posts advertising a commercial product or service.

[OT]:
       This label is for posts that are completely off the topic of PICs.

When I found myself in your shoes some months ago, I starting sending little
reminders to people (not via the list but directly to the poster) when I saw
posts that had nothing to do with PICs and were not marked [OT]. I looks
like I will never escape the need for that. Are you available to spend some
time helping? Or are you aware of someone (that I'm not) who is getting paid
to help moderate the list and hasn't been doing their for however long?

In fact, let me just ask everyone... if you see someone posting a message
that has DICK to do with PICs under the [PIC]: topic please send them a
friendly little note (no need to be a butt about it) asking them to keep in
mind that this tag is for PIC issues only. If you would like to use it, I've
included my little message which seems to work ok. It doesn't usually cause
a huge flame reaction and most often gets a "oops, sorry" response.

<BLOCKQUOTE>
Just a quick note: the below listed post, which you sent to the PICLIST, has
nothing to do with PICs and [PIC]: was at the start of the subject line.
Putting this tag at the beginning of the subject line, causes the message to
be sent to people who have requested that only posts directly related to the
PIC be sent to them. Consider instead adding one of the following:

[EE]:
       This label is for topics that, while not necessarily about PICs, are of
general interest to the EE community.

[AD]:
       This label is for posts advertising a commercial product or service.

[OT]:
       This label is for posts that are completely off the topic of PICs.


The rest of this message is long winded B.S. Feel free to ignore it:

Please understand, I really don't want to offend you or in any way
discourage you from posting your valuable information (or funny remarks
<GRIN>) to the PICLIST.

I'm just pointing out that people who only want to read engineering post
about the PIC would not be able to filter out your post by setting up the
list server or their email program to delete non-PIC subjects.

If you remember to add [EE]:, [OT]:, or [AD]: you can help retain people
(resources) on the list who don't have time or bandwidth to follow
non-[PIC]: posts.

You can post just about anything to the PIC list. Just mark the tread [OT]:
and that's enough for us. If list members don't like it... they can filter
it....

As I have advised other before, if a list member doesn't like something said
in a post they can send the "offenders" <GRIN> a private email asking them
to mark [OT]s. If they get buried, maybe they will. ..or maybe they will
drop off the list and then part of the SIGNAL will be gone forever rather
than just buried in the noise. I don't want to loose your signal and I won't
keep sending you this "reminder" email if you reply and tell me to stop.

My goal is to keep people (like Tjaart, Scott Dattalo, and others and YOU)
from leaving the list rather than have their valuable time wasted by a rash
of off topic posts that are not tagged correctly.

Thanks for taking the time to read this. If you have other questions about
how to get the most out of the PICList, please see the PICList FAQ at:
http://www.piclist.com
</BLOCKQUOTE>

If enough people agree, and do this... mbar it will work better... That's
the best idea I have.

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
RemoveMEjamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

2000\06\05@175002 by Don B. Roadman

flavicon
face
On 5 Jun 2000, at 14:27, Phillip Vogel wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I sort of agree. In fact, I actually do agree, but before we throw all
this crap out, I do want to start a thread on how to remove stains
from clothes since I must launder some clothes that I used whilst
rebuilding an engine. And maybe I could slip in a thread on how to
install pasture fence posts, and ....Well, I guess you are right. We
really should throw all the crap out and stick to the subject of PIC. I
*DO* agree.
Don

2000\06\05@181114 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Actually, the really cool thing about all this is that since the topic tag
in the subject line isn't a valid tag, everything that has been said on this
thread has been completely ignored (not even seen) by all the people who
have turned off the other channel by sending SET PICLIST TOPICS: -Other to
TakeThisOuTLISTSERVTakeThisOuTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU or, in most email clients by clicking on:
spam_OUTLISTSERVspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU?body=SET%20PICLIST%20TOPICS:%20-Other

See... for the people who only subscribe to PIC topics to see a thread, you
have to have [PIC]: at the start of the subject line when you compose the
post.... Neat huh? <GRIN>

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
jamesnewton.....spam@spam@piclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

2000\06\05@192104 by l.allen

picon face
Other moments already posted....
>
> > What a pain in the butt. How about this for a possible scheme: The
> > PICLIST is for discussion of topics specifically related to PICs.
> > Anything else should be discussed in a different list or newsgroup.
> >
> > C'mon, liquid level sensing? truck tachometers? These both had [PIC]:
> > labels. Unfused toner? yeah, maybe EE, but barely. It was MUCH quieter
> > when I could just filter out [OT].
> >

......
> >
> I sort of agree. In fact, I actually do agree, but before we throw all
> this crap out, I do want to start a thread on how to remove stains
> from clothes since I must launder some clothes that I used whilst
> rebuilding an engine. And maybe I could slip in a thread on how to
> install pasture fence posts, and ....Well, I guess you are right. We
> really should throw all the crap out and stick to the subject of PIC. I
> *DO* agree.
> Don

I guess all this has been explored "to the max" but the problem for
me is.. at what point is a topic not directly related to PICs?

Are Power Hexfets in or out?  , motors and motor control?  I am
writing hundreds of lines of code for motor control using PICs right
now so I am VERY interested in any topics re motors etc.

The same would be true for the guy with the diesel engine tacho.

Since PIC stands for Peripheral Interface Controller then to ban
Peripheral control topics would seem a might myopic (accidental
pun!).

An endless stream of nothing but USART, I2C , sleep problems
and external memory issues would surely be equally nauseating as
too many OTs?

Just my $12.75 worth (the NZ dollar is dropping fast!)
_____________________________

Lance Allen
Technical Officer
Uni of Auckland
Psych Dept
New Zealand

http://www.psych.auckland.ac.nz

_____________________________

2000\06\05@204306 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
By all means keep the list open to the (moderately) off-topic posts. Those
who don't want them can now toss them without ever getting them. Those that
want them can read them. (This is beginning to sound like arguments about
pornography!).

I for one have learned a lot of useful things from the OT posts (especially
EE).

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(high performance, high function, low-level software)

'[AD]: Program PICs in Basic'
2000\06\05@210134 by chuck

flavicon
face
If anybody want's to program PICs in Basic check out our packages at:
http://www.elproducts.com

=====
Chuck Hellebuyck
Electronic Products
spamBeGonechuckspamspam_OUTelproducts.com
*****Program PICs Like a Pro*********
Complete package for only $279.95
Includes: PBPro Compiler, EPIC Programmer, 16F84 PIC, Cable & Batteries
http://www.elproducts.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints!
http://photos.yahoo.com

'[ADMIN]: All these tags...'
2000\06\06@093855 by Kbek Tony

flavicon
face
Hi,


>I'd love to hear any specific suggestions on how we can make it
better...

>I certainly agree that a significant number of members are still not
using
>the tags as they should and not respecting other members time and/or
desire
>to stay on topic, but I don't know that removing the tags will improve
the
>situation. At least people actually have to type [PIC]: when they start
a
>thread and it should, at least once in a while, remind them that the
[PIC]:
>tag for PICs only. I'd like to hear your reasons for thinking that we
are
>better off without using....

Hmm..reading the comments on this I think I've been convinced that this
just might be 'the right thing'. And looking more closely to the recent
postings
I also must confess that the 'mess' I saw is mostly due to subject line
LACKING these
tags.

[I'm] [all] [for][.]

/Tony




Tony KŸbek, Flintab AB            
ÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓ
E-mail: EraseMEtony.kubek.....spamflintab.com
ÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓÓ

'[ADMIN]: Suggestions'
2000\06\06@133844 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
Hi,

I have two suggestions wrt. piclist duplicates and message *quoting*:

1. Every mailing list I've ever been subscribed to, and that does not mean
much, has a mechanism that prevents re-posting of messages, no matter by
whom. And you know what, they all work. I cannot believe that a commercial
quality mailing list software like LISTSERV cannot implement this feature.
In particular the mailing list software cannot receive ANY messages that
have a 'Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list <spamPICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>'
, and it should dump them on the floor immediately and directly (and notify
someone). (hint hint). Since lsoft.com is running its software on Digital
Unix (look at the headers), I *strongly* believe that this can be done in
about 30 minutes.

2. Almost 50% of the digest I got today was made up of (responders) quoting
messages in whole please note that we are all on the list, thus we all get
the messages proper, and have no use for duplicates, quoted or not. As a
minimum, cut the quoted message in the editor to leave only the relevant
idea(s) to be responded to.

wbr,
 Peter

2000\06\06@162210 by Don B. Roadman

flavicon
face
On 6 Jun 2000, at 20:39, Peter L. Peres wrote:

{Quote hidden}

I get a lot of crap too. I wish there were a way to not only do what
you suggest, but also scan the messages for ignorance, and
delete those that have no relevant content.

2000\06\06@173717 by William K. Borsum

flavicon
face
<x-flowed>Adding my penny's worth--I have no problem with an extract of the content
of the last message, but nothing beyond that--other than some way to keep
all message subjects close enough textually so they will sort out together,
and not all over.

Also, if there was some way to kill unsolicited attachements--like those
.VCF thingies, and other files that just clutter up and get in the way.  To
my mind, attachments should be sent directly to the intended recipient OFF
LIST--and only if requested.

Ignorance is a sacred void waiting to be filled.  I plead ignorance a
lot--which is why I put questions on the list, and respond when I can to
the questions of others.  Stupidity, selfishness, greed, thoughtlessness,
on the other hand.........

Kelly


At 01:20 PM 6/6/00, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just Switched to Cable-Net.   If you get duplicate messages, please let me
know asap.

William K. Borsum, P.E. -- OEM Dataloggers and Seismic Instrumentation Systems
<RemoveMEborsumRemoveMEspamdascor.com> & <http://www.dascor.com>San Diego, California, USA

</x-flowed>

2000\06\06@203416 by Phillip Vogel

flavicon
face
> I get a lot of crap too. I wish there were a way to not only do what
> you suggest, but also scan the messages for ignorance, and
> delete those that have no relevant content.

He says this after quoting the entire original message, half of which was
asking people to NOT do that.... sheesh.

'[ADMIN]: All these tags...'
2000\06\07@032820 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Lance, I agree. This is really not a PIC list it's an embedded
controller list focusing on using PIC processors. If we were limited
to only discussing PIC software, this place would cease to exist....

  - Tom

At 11:17 AM 6/6/00 +1200, Lance Allen wrote:
[snip]
{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

'[ADMIN] I2C Routines in a mess'
2000\06\08@174641 by Daniel Hart

flavicon
face
Andy,
I believe the rules of the list call for simple text transmission. I adhere to this strictly because I cannot risk introducing a virus into my employer's network. Therefore I will open no attachments. Just FYI.
Dan
 {Original Message removed}

'[ADMIN]: tags'
2000\06\08@213447 by Don B. Roadman

flavicon
face
On 8 Jun 2000, at 18:15, Mark Willis wrote:

> If you don't use the [PIC]: tag, expect some people who're filtering
> out everything BUT the [PIC]: tag, to not see your post, and the
> autoresponder (looks like I'll be doing that!) to harass you for
> posting without an appropriate tag.  (this post, for example, would
> get ME harassed, All by itself isn't a valid tag, should be [All]:
> instead.)
>
I really hope this system eventually works out. I'm one of those
people that does have a pretty slow connection, so It would be nice
if the system does work out. I think it may have been discussed
earlier, but I would like to see the server simply ignore any  post
that doesnt have a tag (or maybe return it to the sender with a
message attached on tag useage?). I turned off the [OT]
messages, and I STILL get more [OT] than pic messages because
the posters arent using the tags. I think the only way to make it
work is to force it. A person that doesnt use the tags will eventually
learn to do so when he doesnt see his post.

2000\06\08@220124 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Don B. Roadman wrote:
> On 8 Jun 2000, at 18:15, Mark Willis wrote:
> > If you don't use the [PIC]: tag, expect some people who're filtering
> > out everything BUT the [PIC]: tag, to not see your post, and the
> > autoresponder (looks like I'll be doing that!) to harass you for
> > posting without an appropriate tag.  (this post, for example, would
> > get ME harassed, All by itself isn't a valid tag, should be [All]:
> > instead.)
> >
> I really hope this system eventually works out. I'm one of those
> people that does have a pretty slow connection, so It would be nice
> if the system does work out. I think it may have been discussed
> earlier, but I would like to see the server simply ignore any  post
> that doesnt have a tag (or maybe return it to the sender with a
> message attached on tag useage?). I turned off the [OT]
> messages, and I STILL get more [OT] than pic messages because
> the posters arent using the tags. I think the only way to make it
> work is to force it. A person that doesnt use the tags will eventually
> learn to do so when he doesnt see his post.

L-Soft's software won't do all that, and they're not likely to make it
do that just because it'd be handy for us - I'll be writing a Dos
program to handle that, have a machine here call my ISP multiple times a
day, then "crunch" the PICList mail it receives and write messages out
to the PICList members who post messages that are without properly
formed tags.  It'll also take care of some other problems like when the
MIT list server admins mess with our list headers for whatever reason -
it'll show us that something changed, and what it was.  Should be an
improvement over the current situation.

 Mark

'[ADMIN] I2C Routines in a mess'
2000\06\09@031809 by Caisson

flavicon
face
Van: Daniel Hart <TakeThisOuTdhart@spam@spam@spam@NBSTECH.COM>
Aan: TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Onderwerp: Re: [ADMIN] I2C Routines in a mess
Datum: donderdag 8 juni 2000 23:43

> Andy,
> I believe the rules of the list call for simple text transmission. I
adhere to this strictly
> because I cannot risk introducing a virus into my employer's network.
Therefore I will
> open no attachments. Just FYI.
> Dan

In IE3 :

1) Left-Click attachment ONCE.
2) Press & hold CTRL-Key. Left-click attachment again.
3) A "Save as" box will appear.  Select a directory & save the file.
4) Open NotePad (or other, maybe binary, viewers) and load the file into
it.

If you can't read it then, it's not a Text-file.

Regards,
 Rudy Wieser

'[ADMIN]: All these tags...'
2000\06\09@091919 by pandersn

flavicon
face
So Tom<

What is the % of market for PIC, Atmel, Motorola, etc. Let's say for
devices in the F84 and F873 market range? Can anybody point me to that
data?

Phil

On Wednesday, June 07, 2000 2:28 AM, Tom Handley
[SMTP:KILLspamthandleyKILLspamspamspamBeGoneTELEPORT.COM] wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'[AD]RE: [EE]:Telemetry encoding'
2000\06\15@122505 by Don Hyde

flavicon
face
I feel I would be remiss not to include our company's website in this
discussion:

http://www.axonn.com

We make some really cool radios for telemetry.  They may be too expensive
for your application, and our sales force is not well geared to handle small
(or maybe even mid) quantities, but the radios are very nice.

Our AX620 transmitter is a PC board about 1"x2" which includes encoder,
transmitter, and antenna.  It is direct-sequence spread spectrum in the 900
MHz "unlicensed" band (one sample of your finished product needs to go to an
FCC test house for an official sticker, then the rest are OK), and gets a
1-mile range out of about 50 milliwatts.  Set up to send a burst every 5
minutes or so for a burglar alarm application (or instantly if an alarm
occurs), it will run 5 years on a 3V lithium camera battery.  It has 4
digital alarm inputs, or you can talk to it serially at 9600 baud to give it
packets of up to 32 bytes to send.

The AX530 receiver is the size of a credit card (except it's 1/2" thick),
and is usually hooked up to a PC via the serial port.  Receivers
(tranceivers and repeaters also available) are more complicated and
expensive than transmitters, so typical applications have as many as 1000
transmitters per receiver.

2000\06\15@124125 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
So, say one of us bought 1000 tx/rx pairs, would your company handle that size?
And how much would they be in that quantity?

-Adam

Don Hyde wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'[ADMIN]: Repeated messages again'
2000\06\16@043842 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
we seem to have a dose of repeated messages again due to bounces. Are they
coming from the same source as in the past?

'[ADMIN]:Mail sent last sunday'
2000\06\16@101714 by Graham North

flavicon
face
I have just received to emails that were sent Sunday 11 June.

Any idea what's going on?

Thanks
Graham North

'[ADMIN]: Re: Mail sent last sunday'
2000\06\16@111912 by James Paul

flavicon
face
I've gotten about 35-40 of these so far.  And it's only 10:15AM.
At this rate, I'll have well over 250 messages in my inbox at the
end of the day.   I've already read and started deleting them.
I have no idea what is going on.

                                        Regards,

                                          Jim




On Fri, 16 June 2000, Graham North wrote:

>
> I have just received to emails that were sent Sunday 11 June.
>
> Any idea what's going on?
>
> Thanks
> Graham North

spamBeGonejimKILLspamspamjpes.com

2000\06\16@124841 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
When you look at the header of the email, you will see that it is being bounced
back from an ISP.

'[AD]: New PICmicro Development Tool Announcement'
2000\06\26@215929 by Ben Wirz

flavicon
face
Hello Everyone,

       Wirz Electronics is pleased to announce that a new version of the YAP
PICmicro Development System is now available.  The YAP2 Kit was designed by
Myke Predko for use with his widely popular Programming and Customizing the
PIC Microcontroller Book. When combined with Myke's book, the YAP2
Development Kit is an ideal place for the PIC newcomer to start.

Feel free to visit our website for more information:

http://wirz.com/YAP/index.html

Sincerely,

Ben Wirz
ben@spam@spamKILLspamwirz.com
Wirz Electronics

2000\06\26@224658 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: Ben Wirz <EraseMEbenRemoveMEspam@spam@WIRZ.COM>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, June 26, 2000 9:58 PM
Subject: [AD]: New PICmicro Development Tool Announcement


> Hello Everyone,
>
>         Wirz Electronics is pleased to announce that a new version of the
YAP
> PICmicro Development System is now available.  The YAP2 Kit was designed
by
> Myke Predko for use with his widely popular Programming and Customizing
the
{Quote hidden}


'[Admin]: duplicate messages attached'
2000\07\05@083349 by Daniel Hart
flavicon
face
part 1 37 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)




part 2 3902 bytes content-type:message/rfc822; (decode)

part 3 3869 bytes content-type:message/rfc822; (decode)

'[AD]: Experienced PIC programmer wanted (In Phoeni'
2000\07\08@020537 by Andrew Ankrum

picon face
Greetings!

I work for a small company who is looking for an engineer in the Phoenix
valley with good experience programming PICS, specifically the PIC16F87X
family.  An understanding using the device for RF data communication is a
must.  The position is part time and our current project should be relitavly
straight forward for an experienced programmer.  Long term employment is a
strong possability.

If anybody is interested or knows of a qualified person who would like some
extra income please reply to me privately.

Thanks,
Andy
spamBeGonededekinduiRemoveMEspamRemoveMEhotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList
@spam@piclist-unsubscribe-requestspamBeGonespammitvma.mit.edu>

'[AD]: Keeloq programmer'
2000\07\13@040631 by Octavio P Nogueira

flavicon
face
Not exactly cheap, but we are developing a Gang HCS
programmer that will program 10 HCS at the same time,
in socket or in-circuit.
We would be happy to program your chips for free when
the programmer is ready, but unfortunately we are
in Brazil, so the shipment will be to expensive.

Friendly Regards

Octavio Nogueira
===================================================
spam_OUTnogueiraspamspampropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
ProPic tools - low cost PIC programmer and emulator
http://www.propic2.com
===================================================

{Original Message removed}

'[AD]: SimmStick Design Contest 2000'
2000\07\14@055112 by Don McKenzie

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face
SimmStick Design Contest 2000

SimmStick Dealers World Wide are proud to
announce the SimmStick Design Contest 2000.

Design your system using SimmStick products
and win up to $1000 USD cash!

The Contest 99 first prize was $500, and was won by
Robert LACOSTE from CHAVILLE in FRANCE.
This first prize value has now been doubled to $1000USD.
Robert designed a new SimmStick-compatible PCB for
SCENIX 28 pin processors,

This, and all other entries can be seen at:
http://www.simmstick.com/entries.htm

SimmStick products currently support PICmicro and
Atmel Micro controllers (8051/AVR), however you may
use any micro of your choice, provided it is mounted
on a SimmStick board.

For more information, point your browser at:
http://www.simmstick.com
or
http://www.dontronics.com/ssinfo.html

Welcome and have fun!

/World Wide SimmStick Dealers.

Don McKenzie    spamdonspamspamspamdontronics.com      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

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'[AD]: LOW COST SEIKO TCP/IP STARTER KIT'
2000\07\14@101431 by WF

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I did a resume of product features

http://www.blusoft.org.br/wf/seiko/description.htm

There is some errors on the page...but, i will resolve this weekend...

Miguel

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'[AD]: LOW COST STARTER KIT PAGE REBUILT'
2000\07\14@112417 by WF

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www.blusoft.org.br/wf/seiko/

mIGUEL

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'[AD]: FS: 16c5x emulators'
2000\07\14@115608 by Quitt, Walter

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I have about a dozen Parallax 16c5x emulators that
I would like to sell.  A picture of one is at:
http://sd.znet.com/~wa6fec/emu.jpg

They come with software, documentation and a power plug.
They can be powered by a wide verity of AC or DC wall warts.
You will have to make up your own device adapter out of
(only) IDC header pins and perf board (pennies.)  The
documentation tells you all you need to know.

I've tested them by connecting them up and running the
software.  They seem to work.

Price: (US dollars) $40 for One, $75 for Two, $100 for Three.
Shipping included only for CONUS.  Canada and international extra.
Payment by cash (US) or Money Order ships immediately, checks will
wait until they clear.

Email with questions and orders to:
spamBeGonewa6fecKILLspamspamKILLspamsd.znet.com

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'[AD]: New PicBasic CodeDesigner'
2000\07\16@050636 by Don McKenzie

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CodeDesigner  is an advanced Windows 95/98/NT/2000 based integrated
development environment (IDE) for the
PicBasic and PicBasic Pro Compilers from microEngineering Labs, Inc.
CodeDesigner has many of the advanced editor features found in Visual
Basic.

Features like Auto Code Completion, pop-up statement syntax, and
PicBasic statement sensitive help will speed project development. Reduce
time spent hunting down errors with CodeDesigner's ability to quickly
navigate error lines, highlight errors, and display error descriptions.

http://www.dontronics.com/cdesign.html

Don McKenzie    TakeThisOuTdonspamspamdontronics.com      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

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'[AD]: LOW COST STARTER KIT PAGE REBUILT'
2000\07\16@204521 by James Cameron

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On Thu, Nov 04, 1999 at 12:14:18PM -0200, WF wrote:
> http://www.blusoft.org.br/wf/seiko/

Problems with this web page:

1) the English syntax is difficult to parse.  Get it translated
properly.

2) the pictures.htm file uses the HTML to resize the image, resulting
in a longer download time than is necessary.  Resize the images yourself
rather than asking the web browser to do it.

3) the pictures themselves lack contrast and colour saturation.  You may
have had insufficient light on the subject while taking the photographs.

4) the perpetually present banner at the top of the page has extra blank
after each word but before the end of hyperlink tag, resulting in bad
display under Netscape.

5) the banner links to _borders/contact.htm which is not present.

6) source.htm has placed the files within scrolled windows.  Therefore
I had to reach for the mouse to see them.  Place the files within the
document in total rather than within a form.

7) the animated coloured bar is a distraction.

8) the advertising for Microsoft on the main page is not needed.

9) all information could have been placed on ONE page.

The date on your mail software is November 4th.

--
James Cameron    EraseMEquozlEraseMEspamus.netrek.org     http://quozl.netrek.org/

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'[AD]: TCP/IP SEIKO STARTER KIT'
2000\07\18@123355 by WF

flavicon
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The altavista translated (main page) to French, Spanish, Italian, German
(Description)

http://www.blusoft.org.br/wf/seiko/

Miguel

PS: Thanks Cameron about your Help!

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'[AD]: ROMzap'
2000\07\18@185559 by Tony Nixon

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picon face
Hi all,

The ROMzap MKII kit is now available. It supports both 28 and 40 pin
devices on the one PCB which measures 1.5" X 3.5". There is also a test
LED, power supply, serial port and access to all IO pins. The kit can be
used with solderless bread boards or as the basis of a project.

http://www.picnpoke.com/demo/ROMzap.html

--
Best regards

Tony

ICmicro's
http://www.picnpoke.com
spamsalesspampicnpoke.com

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'[AD]: new PIC40 SBC'
2000\07\24@112228 by Dan Michaels

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[normally I don't like to directly push products on piclist,
but since they set up the [AD]: category] ---

Not being able to find a PIC40 SBC with the features I have
wanted, I decided to produce one of my own. Among other things,
access to large amounts of SRAM and EEPROM. This way you can
get lots of RAM with a PIC, and don't have to go to another
processor, like HC11 or 8031. [best of all possible worlds?].

http://www.sni.net/~oricom/sbc40.htm

best regards,
- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
===================

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'[AD]: SimmStick Design Contest 2000'
2000\08\07@230405 by Don McKenzie
flavicon
face
SimmStick Design Contest 2000

SimmStick Dealers World Wide are proud to
announce the SimmStick Design Contest 2000.

Design your system using SimmStick products
and win up to $1000 USD cash!

The Contest 99 first prize was $500, and was won by
Robert LACOSTE from CHAVILLE in FRANCE.
This first prize value has now been doubled to $1000USD.
Robert designed a new SimmStick-compatible PCB for
SCENIX 28 pin processors,

This, and all other entries can be seen at:
http://www.simmstick.com/entries.htm

The latest Contest 2000 entries can be seen at:
http://simmstick.com/entries-.htm

SimmStick products currently support PICmicro and
Atmel Micro controllers (8051/AVR), however you may
use any micro of your choice, provided it is mounted
on a SimmStick board.

For more information, point your browser at:
http://www.simmstick.com
or
http://www.dontronics.com/ssinfo.html

Welcome and have fun!

/World Wide SimmStick Dealers.

Don McKenzie    EraseMEdonspamBeGonespamspamdontronics.com      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

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'[AD]: PIC17C756's and PCMCIA sockets for sale'
2000\08\09@042907 by Mike Cornelius

flavicon
face
G'Day All,

Due to reasons that I shall not go into right now I have a whole bunch of
PIC17C756's and some Molex through hole PCMCIA sockets which are surplus to
my immediate requirements.
All are brand new unused untouched.

Specifically :-

2089    PIC17C756-33/L
304     PIC17C756-25/L

1040    Molex 71089-3005 PCMCIA Connector

If anyone is interested in these parts please let me know.

Price would depend upon quantity but I can guarantee would be competitive.

Regards,

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Cornelius                  Internet: KILLspammikespambytethis.com.au
Byte This Interactive           Phone:    +61 2 9310-2157
PO Box 1342 Strawberry Hills    FAX:      +61 2 9319-3948
NSW 2012 Australia              URL:      http://www.bytethis.com.au
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

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'[AD]: eeprom programmer'
2000\08\17@011725 by Peter Crowcroft

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We have produces a cheap - around $US11 plus postage - eeprom programmer
for 24xxx amd 93xxx eeproms all on the one single-sided board. It is Kit
151. You may download the documentation and see the photo at
http://kitsrus.com

only 8 bit eeproms are supported.

You can download the software to run it from our software download page.

in america contact

Johan Smit <amazonspamspam@spam@sprynet.com>

to buy it.

regards,

Peter Crowcroft
                   DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd
               PO Box 88458, Sham Shui Po, Hong Kong
Voice: 852-2720 0255   Fax: 852-2725 0610    Web:  http://kitsrus.com
  Email: spamBeGonepeter.....spamkitsrus.com          Email:.....diykit@spam@spampacific.net.hk
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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'[AD]: PIC40 SBC with SRAM'
2000\08\23@121050 by Dan Michaels

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Follow-up to previous announcement:

In case anyone is just dying to have their PIC talk to a large
amount of RAM, I have my first set of PIC40 SBC circuit boards
in hand, and tested.

It's a general purpose SBC for 16C74/77/877/etc, and allows
interfacing to a 28- or 32-pin SRAM chip [8KB - 512KB], plus
all the usual stuff - 7805, RS-232 port, two serial EEPROMs,
Timer 1 RTC, ISP, etc.

If you try hard, you can buffer data to the SRAM at rates to about
1 Mhz for 8-bit addressing, and 500 Khz for 16-bit addressing,
when using a 20 Mhz xtal.

http://www.sni.net/~oricom/sbc40.htm

best regards,
- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
===================

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'[AD]: Excess resonators 4.19 and 6.0MHz'
2000\09\13@154409 by Snail Instruments
flavicon
face
If anyone interested, there are thousands of resonators waiting to team up
with your PICs (or another micro):

http://www.vitrum.cz/snaileng/resontrs.htm

Josef

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'[AD]: New motor controller'
2000\09\20@161938 by chuck

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face
We added a new Lego motor controller package for anybody that wants to
build robots with Lego's and use PICs instead of Mindstorms software.
Check it out at:
http://www.elproducts.com



=====
Chuck Hellebuyck
Electronic Products
spamchuckspamelproducts.com
*****Program PICs Like a Pro*********
Complete package for only $279.95
Includes: PBPro Compiler, EPIC Programmer, 16F84 PIC, Cable & Batteries
http://www.elproducts.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/

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'[AD]: Embedded developers needed in New Orleans'
2000\09\22@175238 by Don Hyde

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I hope this is not too inappropriate for this list.

If you are interested in relocating to New Orleans, or already live here and
somehow we haven't found you yet, please contact me off list.

We have recently secured venture funding, and are having to turn away work
because we don't have enough people.  We need a bunch of programmers and
engineers.  RF experience would be a way good thing.

Don Hyde dhyde(atsign)axonn.com
Senior Software Engineer
Axonn Corporation http://www.axonn.com

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'[AD]: NEWFOUND SOFTWARE'
2000\09\27@074812 by Jim Robertson

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Attention Anyone using any of these programmers:

PP1
WARP-3
WARP-17
REAPER
PHOENIX 16B UPGRADE
PHOENIX 16C UPGRADE
FREE TAIT FIRMWARE UPGRADE
TAIT PROGRAMMER 4LAB "MPLAB" UPGRADE A.K.A MAITER BOARD

A new windows software driver is available for these programmers.
This software is available for $25USD after a 21 day
trial period. This fee is a one time registration for this
generation of software. See the help file for the registration
web link.

See http://www.new-elect.com/support.htm for policy information.

Download software from: http://www.new-elect.com/zip/warpcore.zip

This software includes support for the USB PICs and it replaces
WinTM4, FreePSP, WinPSP. All programmer drivers are now incorporated
into the one driver.

Please download and evaluate this driver at your leisure.

Also suitable for the picstart plus but this will be a separate
announcement later but you can use it now.




Regards,

Jim Robertson
NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS
Email: spam_OUTnewfound@spam@spamRemoveMEpipeline.com.au
http://www.new-elect.com
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers.

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'[AD]: TCP/IP STARTER KIT'
2000\09\29@114701 by WF AUTOMACAO

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Hello,

I have in stock 4 pieces...

Sorry about the delay... i was very busy...

http://www.blusoft.org.br/wf/seiko/

Miguel Wisintainer

PS: Mark, Willian, Gonzales, Frank... contact me, i have some good news...

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'[AD:] FOR SALE'
2000\10\04@114525 by WF AUTOMACAO
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face
I have for sale the following ORIGINAL products....

I will not more produce educational kits...

UNIVERSAL CROSS ASSEMBLY
SPECCTRA AUTOROUTER+WINDRAFT+WINBOARD
ISP STARTER KIT LATTICE
NATIONAL COP STARTER KIT
TMS370 STARTER KIT
SECPRO CAMERA+LENS
MICROMINT ANSWER JR. CI

LET ME KNOW IF YO'RE INTERESTED....
LET ME KNOW HOW YOU CAN PAY FOR ME FOR EACH PRODUCT...

Miguel Wisintainer

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2000\10\04@124918 by Andy Stephenson

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Miguel,

How many pins and layers, and what design options do you have for the
Specctra autorouter?

Is the Specctra licence transferable? i.e. a dongle and a flex lm file

What version is it?

I am interested depending on these questions.

Rgds...

...Andy

WF AUTOMACAO wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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'[AD:] FOR SALE - sorry'
2000\10\04@125332 by Andy Stephenson

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oops - sorry.

wrong recipient.

Rgds...

...Andy

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2000\10\04@132550 by WF AUTOMACAO

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face
NO! It's me...:)

Miguel
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Andy Stephenson <@spam@andy.stephensonspam_OUTspamASAMICROS.COM>
Para: .....PICLISTspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU <spamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Data: Quarta-feira, 4 de Outubro de 2000 14:09
Assunto: [AD:] FOR SALE - sorry


{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\04@143909 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
Miguel Wisintainer wrote:
>I have for sale the following ORIGINAL products....
>
>I will not more produce educational kits...
>
>UNIVERSAL CROSS ASSEMBLY
>SPECCTRA AUTOROUTER+WINDRAFT+WINBOARD
>ISP STARTER KIT LATTICE
>NATIONAL COP STARTER KIT
>TMS370 STARTER KIT
>SECPRO CAMERA+LENS
>MICROMINT ANSWER JR. CI
>
>LET ME KNOW IF YO'RE INTERESTED....
>LET ME KNOW HOW YOU CAN PAY FOR ME FOR EACH PRODUCT...
>


Miguel, you did not include your website address.

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2000\10\04@144528 by WF AUTOMACAO

flavicon
face
I don't have these products in my web page...

I used them as tools for my developting...

Miguel
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Dan Michaels <RemoveMEoricomRemoveMEspamUSWEST.NET>
Para: KILLspamPICLIST.....spamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <PICLISTspam_OUTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Data: Quarta-feira, 4 de Outubro de 2000 15:46
Assunto: Re: [AD]: FOR SALE


{Quote hidden}

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'[AD]: Surplus - PIC Talkie Board'
2000\10\05@151253 by Dan Michaels

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face
For anyone wanting to control an ISD voice recorder chip
and/or MC145436 DTMF decoder using a PIC 16C63/etc chip,
I have some surplus pcbs from a busted telephone project,
circa 1999. There are also parts available. Could do a partial
kit.

Pcb designed with complete analog I/F for the ISD, including
LM358 opamp/filter, electret, speaker. Also, includes telephone
I/F [no off-hook pick-up], pushbuttons, RS232, EEPROM, etc.
Makes a nice SBC for hacking.

Contact me off-list if interested.

best regards,
- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
http://www.users.uswest.net/~oricom
===================================

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2000\10\06@053801 by Michael Rigby-Jones

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dan Michaels [SMTP:KILLspamoricomspam@spam@USWEST.NET]
> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 8:13 PM
> To:   @spam@PICLISTRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      [AD]: Surplus - PIC Talkie Board
>
> For anyone wanting to control an ISD voice recorder chip
> and/or MC145436 DTMF decoder using a PIC 16C63/etc chip,
> I have some surplus pcbs from a busted telephone project,
> circa 1999. There are also parts available. Could do a partial
> kit.
>
You had a project to design a busted telephone? <g>

Mike

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2000\10\06@141420 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
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Mike Rigby-Jones wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Dan Michaels [SMTP:oricom@spam@spamEraseMEUSWEST.NET]
>> Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2000 8:13 PM
>> To:   spam_OUTPICLISTspam_OUTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
>> Subject:      [AD]: Surplus - PIC Talkie Board
>>
>> For anyone wanting to control an ISD voice recorder chip
>> and/or MC145436 DTMF decoder using a PIC 16C63/etc chip,
>> I have some surplus pcbs from a busted telephone project,
>> circa 1999. There are also parts available. Could do a partial
>> kit.
>>
>You had a project to design a busted telephone? <g>
>
>Mike
>


Hey, Mike, thanks for re-posting my [AD]:

This way I can add that the board also has a ULN2004 relay
driver on it. The project probably "busted" because, like most
of my projects, by time I get done adding features no one much
can understand what the darn things do any longer.

best regards,
- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
http://www.users.uswest.net/~oricom
===================================

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'[AD]: MicroController Design Contest finishes end '
2000\10\07@192235 by Don McKenzie

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MicroController Design Contest finishes end of October

SimmStick Design Contest2000 $1000 USD First Prize.
http://www.simmstick.com

SimmStick currently supports MicroChip and Atmel micros.
http://www.dontronics.com/ssinfo.html

SimmStick is a small PCB 3.5" long and 1" or more high that has a 30
pin edge connector as well as provision for 30 by .1" posts. The edge
connector mates with the 30 pin memory socket type connectors that
have been around for many years now.

SimmStick now has dealers in 21 countries.

New boards coming out in the next week or two:
http://www.dontronics.com/dt007.html
http://www.dontronics.com/dt107.html
http://www.dontronics.com/dt108.html

We have Basic Stamp Ones on SimmSticks now, and BSII's shortly.

Don McKenzie    RemoveMEdonspam.....dontronics.com      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

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'[AD]: STAND ALONE PIC 8 GANG PROGRAMMER'
2000\10\11@201046 by c th

picon face
Hello All.  I am upgrading my production programmer and now have a dedicated
stand alone 8 at once gang programmer for sale.

If you want to be able to program 8 PICs at once by pressing one button, and
having them done in 30 seconds total time, and use the following range of
PICs, you can use this GANG 8 programmer, which is also a single device
programmer when connected to the PC (software to run in PC connected single
programmer mode is at http://www.adv-transdata.com)

16C62/63/64/65/66/67/72/73/74/76/77

Here are the details:

MODEL PGM40G DIP type (up to 40 pins)

This is the model which copies program and fuse data from a master device
(placed in the programmer at all times) to up to eight devices at one time.

Stand-alone operation when duplicating devices
Single socket programmer when hosted by PC
Copies from a master chip to a maximum of 8 devices
Simple one-key operation
Preset verification voltages at 3V/5.5V or 4.5V/5.5V
Programs hundreds of devices within an hour
Program cycle includes blank check, program and two byte-by-byte,
chip-by-chip verifications
Individual socket LEDs indicate non-blank or program errors
Checksum verification verifies integrity of master chip before each program
cycle
Code protection on the duplicated devices is enabled via a jumper setting



So there it is, for anyone who is interested.  Current new retail is $799.
All offers will be considered, but it's most likely I'll take the soonest
reasonable offer.

Send email to cthornerTakeThisOuTspamhotmail.com if you are interested.

I can email you pics if you need 'em.

Craig


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2000\10\12@040053 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I can email you pics if you need 'em.

don't all the pins get caught coming down the wire???? Oh you mean those picture things {;-))

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'[AD]: Selling a Celeron 533 All-in one system box,'
2000\10\13@114846 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
One of my customers decided not to pick up and purchase a computer which they
had previously ordered.  Rather than disassembling it and returning the parts I
am interested in selling it at cost.  If you are interested in a inexpensive box
useful for a number of uses, read on:

The system consists of four items:
LI-7000 from Soyo       $175
533MHz Celeron Processor$115
32MB PC100 SDRAM        $40
USED 800MB HD           $free

The LI-7000 is commonly referred to as a BookPC or all-in-one system (these
smaller computers are becoming more common, slightly taller than a VCR, but not
as wide).  It includes on board:
Realtek 10/100 Ethernet (RTL8139B)
AGP SVGA (2x, sharing memory with processor)
TV out (composite and S-video)
One PCI and one AMR (V1.0) slot (AMR is often used for ultra-cheap winmodems)
Sound (software audio codec, AC97)
Two serial, one parallel, FDD (2 devices), HDD (4 devices)
Supports boot from IDE, SCSI, CD-ROM, FDD, LS120, ZIP
Health monitoring:
Voltages:
 VCore
 VTT
 + and - 5v
 + and - 12v
 3.3v
 5VSB
 Battery
CPU fan speed control (4 speed) and monitor)
CPU temp (On die thermal diode)

Physical:
36.3cm x 31.5cm x 8.5cm (14.3"x 12.4"x 3.3")
One exposed 5.25" drive bay
One exposed 3.5" drive bay
One Hidden 3.5" drive bay
FRONT:
 IrDA Transciever
 Audio: speaker out, mic, and line
 2 USB ports
BACK:
 RJ45 Ethernet
 1 Parallel
 2 Serial
 1 Game
 PS/2 Keyboard and Mouse ports
 1 RCA composite
 1 S-Video
 1 VGA
100W power supply

There are a number of other features, but I think you get the idea, and you can
find out more from the web site listed above.

Please note that there is NO operating system included!  I have win95 on the HD
for testing and demoing, but the HD will be formatted before leaving my
business.  The HD is used, but for the price you can't beat it.  I'd give it
another 3 years before it experiences its first bad block error (but no
gurantees for the HD).

All parts are covered by my business (Micro Basics) with a 1 year limited
warranty (Parts and labor).  Since I am selling this at cost, there will be a
10% restocking fee if you change your mind after unpackaging it.

So for $330 you get a complete celeron system (w/o monitor, keyboard/mouse, and
OS).  I've had customers install a TV card and DVD, some software and making
their own digital VCR.  Another uses these for thin clients (no HD, floppy or
CD.  Has a compactflash IDE adaptor and 8MB CF card.)  The only thing it doesn't
have is a modem.  I'm actually glad it doesn't, as I eschew winmodems anyway,
and those are usually the only kind included on board for many computers now
<sigh>.

Shipping will be approx $20.  Extra money would be appreciated, but I don't keep
stock on hand, and would like to put the money elsewhere.  This system is one
month old, has been turned on and burned in for 3 days total.  If you need
Windows 98 installed, I can add that for $199.  If you buy a HD and Windows 98,
I can get you a 15GB HD for $95 and windows 98 for $99 (bundled) so the HD and
windows together would add $194.  Add $40 for a total of 64MB of memory.  Add
$15 for a floppy, and $40 for a CD-ROM.

Please email me off-list with questions and comments.  I prefer shipping within
the continental US (I know, I need to be more multinational...), and would ship
via UPS ground (4 days or less in the US, 2 days in the midwest)  Or you can
come to Ann Arbor, Michigan and pick it up yourself.

-Adam
Micro Basics
Computer Consulting

P.S. I /love/ these systems!  Great for gaming (not spectacular), wonderful for
a workbench computer (little space), easy to toss into a car and take with you
for LAN parties, LUGs/BUGs, etc.  Very cute!  I can post pictures if interested
(Soyo changed the site this month, no more front and rear-panel pictures!  Bah.)

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2000\10\13@121406 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
The message may not have been completely clear in some points:

The system does not have a floppy or CD-ROM.

The system does not have a compactflash adaptor (one of my customer's uses these
adaptors to replace the functionality of the HD and floppy with flash disks)

I hope this helps.

-Adam

"M. Adam Davis" wrote
"[AD]: Selling a Celeron 533 All-in one system box, $330 [US]"

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'[AD]: DS1307'
2000\10\16@110103 by WF AUTOMACAO

flavicon
face
I need urgent 200 pieces of DS1307 with imediate delivery,,,(DIP8)

I will need this quantities for the next months too!

Miguel Wisintainer

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'[AD]: NEW PRICE FOR SEIKO STARTER KIT -locssk 1.0'
2000\10\16@161620 by WF AUTOMACAO

flavicon
face
www.blusoft.org.br/wf/seiko/

Miguel

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'[AD]: temperature data logger DS1820 x 4, PIC509'
2000\10\25@021634 by Peter Crowcroft

flavicon
face
This is an PIC509 based circuit for temperature data logging via the serial
port of any computer from between 1 and 4 remote digital temperature
sensors, DS1820. Power is taken from the serial port. It will measure
degrees centigrade by default or deg. Fahrenheit after a jumper is added to
the board.

The software was written by James Cameron and I am putting out the kit with
the preprogrammed IC and all components.

Read the documentation and see the data logging software at

http://kitsrus.com/pdf/k145.pdf

and

http://kitsrus.com/soft.html#k145

I can supply a Kit of parts for $US33  airmail postage included. Pay by
credit card on my secure site. Note: only one DS1820 sensor is sold with
the kit but I can supply additional at $US6.50 each (postage included.)
regards,

Peter Crowcroft
           DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd
     PO Box 88458, Sham Shui Po, Hong Kong
Voice: 852-2720 0255   Fax: 852-2725 0610
Web:  http://kitsrus.com     Email: EraseMEpeterspamspamBeGonekitsrus.com
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'[AD]: KEYBOARD THAT TALKS WITH IRC'
2000\10\31@122738 by WF AUTOMACAO

flavicon
face
Hi there...

I finished today a keyboard that:

Sends e-mail
Receives e-mai
Do IRC talking...

Do you know good IRC servers in the world?

mIGUEL

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2000\10\31@124139 by dre Domingos F. Souza

flavicon
face
>I finished today a keyboard that:
>Sends e-mail
>Receives e-mai
>Do IRC talking...
>Do you know good IRC servers in the world?

       mIRC has a great list


--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
       TakeThisOuTxandinhospamTakeThisOuTinterlink.com.br

--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

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2000\10\31@131909 by WF AUTOMACAO

flavicon
face
I need the IP :(

mIgUeL
-----Mensagem original-----
De: Alexandre Domingos F. Souza <xandinhospamspam_OUTINTERLINK.COM.BR>
Para: spamPICLIST@spam@spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Data: Terga-feira, 31 de Outubro de 2000 16:13
Assunto: Re: [AD]: KEYBOARD THAT TALKS WITH IRC


{Quote hidden}

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2000\10\31@154151 by dre Domingos F. Souza

flavicon
face
>I need the IP :(

       No problem, use a simple batch file or a qbasic program to execute the PING command in each entry of the server list and gather the result, writing a "IP server list". Too little work, too much fun :o)


--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

       All the best!!!
       Alexandre Souza
       RemoveMExandinhoRemoveMEspamTakeThisOuTinterlink.com.br

--------------8<-------Corte aqui-------8<--------------

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2000\10\31@163450 by Dale Botkin

flavicon
face
On Tue, 31 Oct 2000, WF AUTOMACAO wrote:

> Hi there...
>
> I finished today a keyboard that:
>
> Sends e-mail
> Receives e-mai
> Do IRC talking...
>
> Do you know good IRC servers in the world?

<grump>

Total contradiction in terms, if you ask me...

</grump>

Dale
---
The most exciting phrase to hear in science, the one that heralds new
discoveries, is not "Eureka!" (I found it!) but "That's funny ..."
               -- Isaac Asimov

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2000\10\31@194950 by William

flavicon
face
Hi.

I read your mail and doubt that how you designed a keyboard that
can send and retrieve e-mail, and also do IRC???

If you  won't mind, can you talk about your design?




WF AUTOMACAO wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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'[AD]: PIC16F87X In Circuit Debugger'
2000\11\09@031222 by Peter Anderson
flavicon
face
I have a new In Circuit Debugger arrangement which consists of a serial MPLAB ICD main baord and 9 inch tel cable which connects to a telephone terminal block.  Five leads (VDD, GRD, VPP, PGD and PGC) are brought out to connect directly to your target PIC16F87X on a solderless breadboard or equivalent.

An anti-reversing diode and series resistor are wired in the terminal block.

The package includes the MPLAB ICD main board, wired terminal block, 9 inch telephone cable, 6 foot serial cable and documentation.  Note that a PIC16F87X is not included.  (I have a the PIC16F872, 873, 876 and 877 in DIP and a number of crystal frequencies).

The price is $89.00 USD plus shipping.

Additional info is at http://www.phanderson.com/PIC/

Thanks.

Peter H. Anderson, pha(at)phanderson.com, http://www.phanderson.com
PICs, PIC C Routines, PIC C Workshops


Sign up for Free-for-Life E-mail at http://www.Africana.com

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2000\11\09@164715 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Great idea! I've added a link to this on my ICD info page at
http://www.piclist.com/../microchip/icd.htm

My I offer a constructive suggestion? Your page for this product would
really benefit from a picture or two...

---
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jamesnewtonTakeThisOuTspam@spam@piclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

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{Original Message removed}

'[AD]: The results of SimmStick Contest 2000'
2000\11\22@021854 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
The results of SimmStick Contest 2000

Well it is finally over. After several months of hard work and effort
from the contestants ( and the judging panel over the last few weeks )
the results are now finalised. The judging panel had a very hard time
deciding between the entries and have expressed their pleasure in the
high standard of all of the entries received.
On behalf of the SimmStick dealers we would like to congratulate all of
the contestants for the support and interest in SimmStick, without their
fantastic effort this contest would have been a non event.

These results can be seen at:
http://www.simmstick.com/results2000.html

Don McKenzie    spamdonTakeThisOuTspamdontronics.com      http://www.dontronics.com

The World's Largest Range of Atmel/AVR  & PICmicro Hardware and Software
Free Basic Compiler and Programmer http://www.dontronics.com/runavr.html
The Little "rAVeR!" AVR & Basic Kit http://www.dontronics.com/dt006.html

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'[AD]: Logic Probe for Sale'
2000\11\24@192348 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
I have an old Logic Probe for sale on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=508842935

Other items of computer interest are:

Iomega Jaz 1G cartridge:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=508839452

Colorado Tape Drives:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=508823481

Wingmaster Software:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=508828996

Computer Service book:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=508831854

Computer Associates s/w:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=508851266

Thanks.

Andy

===================================================================
               Truth is whatever God says it is.
===================================================================
.....andyTakeThisOuTspamEraseMErc-hydros.com      http://www.rc-hydros.com     - Race Boats
RemoveMEandyspamspamKILLspammontanadesign.com  http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics
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'[AD]: STV5730A chips for sale'
2000\11\28@075544 by kayode.ayandokun

flavicon
face
For a limited period we now have loose STV5730A chipsfor sale. For full
details please visit http://www.STV5730A.co.uk

Anyone interested in developing microcontroller driven video text
overlays will find the PIC STV5730A prototyping board of interest.
Based on the popular PIC 16F84 this board provides a simple way for the
developer to get to grips with the popular STV5730A video text generator
quickly on a piece of proven hardware.  If your PIC projects have been
limited to flashing LEDs and LCD displays in the past now you can
harness the power of an entire TV screen for your next project!

The PIC 16F84 STV5730A on screen display project board is available
from http://www.stv5730A.co.uk

Features:
* 16F84 microcontroller for flexible development
* STV5730A on screen display IC gives 28 character by 11 row screen
* 128 text and graphics characters defined in ROM
* Text over video or self generated video signal
* 10 i/o lines on the 16F84 for easy interface to sensors, keypads, etc
* Power supply 5V dc or 9 - 12dc via on board regulator
* High quality PCB
* Free basic PIC-STV5730A demo software
* Screen display routines available
* Simple PC serial interface, ATV callsign and GPS display examples
* Enclosures available with or without membrane keypad
* Accessories and connecters

Our site also features links to other STV5730A sites of interest.
Cut out the tedium of project development and get straight to the fun
of making your idea work with proven hardware and well commented easy to
understand example code.

Visit http://www.stv5730A.co.uk for more details and free 16F84 STV5730A
interface source code.

Kayode.

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'[AD]: New 18Cxxx Compiler'
2000\11\28@085844 by Eric James

picon face
 A free beta release of a new PIC18Cxxx compiler is available at
http://ejames2.freeyellow.com/GGC.htm
Let me know what you think about it.

Eric James
STOPspamejames2EraseMEspamyahoo.com


__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
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'[ad]: items I can supply'
2000\12\15@230050 by Peter Crowcroft
flavicon
face
1. alot of interest lately in MK484 radio IC. I can supply at

1-9 pcs $0.75
10 - 100  $0.50
100-1K   $0.30

Spec at

http://kitsrus.com/bits.html



2. LCD 2x16, no b/l, Truly brand, specs on my website at

http://kitsrus.com/bits.html#lcd

100 pieces special offer  $3.40 each  plus postage and bank charges if
applicable. New from factory. I am overstocked so I want to offload some.



3. PIC Programmers using the software of Bojan Dobaj at

http://picallw.com

See there for a list of the ICs they will program.

Bojan has actively supported and enhanced his software over the last two
years. He does the software. I supply the hardware. Many cheap / no cost
PIC programmers have come and gone over that time. You get what you pay for.

3.1 K96 $25. P16PRO. Register for software $20) after 21 days trial. See

http://kitsrus.com/upuc.html#k96
http://picallw.com

Price $US25 includes all parts, PCB and airmail postage.


3.2 K117  PICALL. See

http://kitsrus.com/upuc.html#k117
http://picallw.com

Price $US85 includes all parts, PCB and airmail registered postage.

Postage (your choice of how to send to you
regards,

Peter Crowcroft
           DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd
     PO Box 88458, Sham Shui Po, Hong Kong
Voice: 852-2720 0255   Fax: 852-2725 0610
Web:  http://kitsrus.com     Email: peterspamBeGonespamkitsrus.com
   Number One in Electronic Kits Worldwide
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'[ad]: PCB-mounted transformers'
2000\12\20@114657 by Peter Crowcroft

flavicon
face
The power supply for some projects which electronics technicians &
designers on this List may use may incorporate PCB-mounted transformers. I
have just had some made and the photo and specifications are at

http://kitsrus.com/bits.html#trans

They are made in China but with Taiwanese material and Taiwanese product
specifications. (Chinese material and specifications are cheaper but also
lower quality. I do not recommend using them.)

Minimum orders are 5000 pieces. For the one in the photo and the spec
provided I paid $US0.295  each.

So if anyone wants 5000 to their own specification, or just want to buy a
couple of these get in touch....


regards,

Peter Crowcroft
           DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd
     PO Box 88458, Sham Shui Po, Hong Kong
Voice: 852-2720 0255   Fax: 852-2725 0610
Web:  http://kitsrus.com     Email: peter@spam@spamkitsrus.com
   Number One in Electronic Kits Worldwide
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'[AD]: Cybiko at 20% off'
2000\12\24@134921 by Octavio P Nogueira

flavicon
face
Only December 24 and 25, get your Cybiko at 20% off
using the BP9226 secret code. Go to http://www.cybiko.com
and order yours.

Friendly Regards

Octavio Nogueira
===================================================
spam_OUTnogueiraspamspampropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
ProPic tools - low cost PIC programmer and emulator
http://www.propic2.com
===================================================

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'[AD]: Free Tandy 600'
2000\12\29@214838 by Steve Miller

picon face
The wife has informed me that my workshop clutter has got to go!  Below is a
description of an old NON-MSDOS (also NON-WINDOWS)  laptop that I am not
using.
This unit is available free.  All that I ask is that you cover the shipping
cost.  ( Unit probably weighs 12-15 lbs.)  I purchased this unit when I was
doing a lot of traveling and writing alot of assembly code.  The idea was to
crank out the code in the builtin Text Editor because the NiCad batteries
would
run the unit for an extended period of time.  Unfortunately, my job changed
before I could put this purchase to use.

Members of this list may find the builtin basic and buildin terminal
emulator
useful. If you are interested, send me an e-mail to banjospam_OUTspamRemoveMEio.com

---  Steve Miller

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'[AD]: AT90S4414-8JC's for sale'
2001\01\02@162544 by Richard Sloan
flavicon
face
Over 1000 of them, best offer, thanks!

Richard.

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'[AD]: Programmer Wanted'
2001\01\14@230514 by James Newton

face picon face
Please tag items related to buying or selling under [AD]: or [BUY]: rather
than [PIC]:

I'm currently working on just such a project (although the GUI Visual
programming part is probably a long way off) for the Ubicom (Scenix) SX
chips. These very fast processors are great for doing small, speed critical
functions (they call bit banging "virtual peripherals) but lack program
memory for larger projects. After realizing that most of the code involved
in large projects DOESN'T need to execute at the top speed, we started
thinking about making a simple token language to run in the processor and
execute from an external multi-meg serial FLASH like an Atmel AT45d081.

It would be possible to emulate other processors in the SX (like an 8051 or
PIC) and so reuse existing code (a 50Mhz (50 MIPS) SX could probably emulate
a 4MHz (1 MIPS) PIC) but I like to screw around with languages, was
fascinated by variations of Forth and inspired by XPL0 to try for a better
solution; one that minimized the need to fetch opcodes over the serial
channel by making the opcodes as powerful, complex, and flexible as
possible. I'm shooting for something like a micro code language that opcodes
can be defined in and then reused by the programs.

The goal for us is that projects that normally require a variety of chips
e.g. a small PIC and an external hardware device like a video generator, or
touch tone decoder or different PIC with built in hardware like USART or SPI
master could all be done with the same SX chip and FLASH memory and would
all use the same basic PCB. Just a few jumpers, resistors, caps, connectors,
virtual peripherals and main program code (in the FLASH) and you're done.

Let me know how that matches.

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
spamjamesnewtonspamBeGonespampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

'[ad]: Re: Where is the best PIC NiCd charger?'
2001\01\16@155957 by Mark Skeels

picon face
If your not allergic to 805x then perhaps you'd be interested in our new
"Pitbull."

Coming to a hobby shop near you in February...

.150 to 7 amps charge current, 2 selectable cycles with eeprom parm storage,
peak detect volts settable .012v - .192v in 4 mV increments.

Gives peak pack voltage, mWHr, mAHr. Programmable sounds and display
effects.

2x16 char backlit LCD display. SMPS technology.

4 - 8 cells.

Uses a 12c509 for sound effects.

If you want more capability and a discharge cycle as well, check out

http://www.competitionelectronics.com

and look at the TurboMatcher 4 and the Turbo 35.

To create large battery testing and matching systems, check out the
TurboLabel program.

Regards,

Mark Skeels
Engineer
Competition Electronics
spammeskeelsRemoveMEspamearthlink.net

Soli Deo Gloria!


{Original Message removed}

'[ad]: Re: Where is the best PIC NiCd charger?'
2001\01\16@161834 by Andrew Kunz

flavicon
face
And why don't you tell them that the LCD code was developed for a PIC in C and
ported to the 805x?











Mark Skeels <KILLspammeskeelsspam_OUTspamspam_OUTEARTHLINK.NET> on 01/16/2001 04:03:44 PM

Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list <PICLISTspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>








To:      spamBeGonePICLISTspamspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU

cc:      (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES)



Subject: [ad]: Re:      Where is the best PIC NiCd charger?








If your not allergic to 805x then perhaps you'd be interested in our new
"Pitbull."

Coming to a hobby shop near you in February...

.150 to 7 amps charge current, 2 selectable cycles with eeprom parm storage,
peak detect volts settable .012v - .192v in 4 mV increments.

Gives peak pack voltage, mWHr, mAHr. Programmable sounds and display
effects.

2x16 char backlit LCD display. SMPS technology.

4 - 8 cells.

Uses a 12c509 for sound effects.

If you want more capability and a discharge cycle as well, check out

http://www.competitionelectronics.com

and look at the TurboMatcher 4 and the Turbo 35.

To create large battery testing and matching systems, check out the
TurboLabel program.

Regards,

Mark Skeels
Engineer
Competition Electronics
@spam@meskeelsspamspamspam_OUTearthlink.net

Soli Deo Gloria!


{Original Message removed}

2001\01\16@170415 by Mark Skeels

picon face
I hereby credit Andrew Kunz with the LCD code (although highly modified...
:-))

Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Kunz" <KILLspamakunzspamKILLspamTDIPOWER.COM>
To: <KILLspamPICLISTspamspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2001 3:21 PM
Subject: Re: [ad]: Re: Where is the best PIC NiCd charger?


> And why don't you tell them that the LCD code was developed for a PIC in C
and
{Quote hidden}

<PICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
{Quote hidden}

storage,
{Quote hidden}

didn't
{Quote hidden}

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'[AD]: Structured Basic for PIC18 Series'
2001\01\17@102140 by Eric James

picon face
 Announcing V1.0 of Basic18, a Structured Basic compiler for the
PIC18Xxxx series of microcontroller.  Basic18 can be downloaded
from http://basic18.virtualave.net/

A few features of Basic18 include:
 * String and array support
 * Variable types supporting both integer and real numbers
 * Stack level tracking
 * Efficient use of RAM


__________________________________________________
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Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
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'[AD]: Anyone want my Tek2221?'
2001\01\18@112116 by Chris Eddy

flavicon
face
My Tektronix 2221 w/ GPIB opt just quit a few days back.  The problem is
clear.. the horizontal sweep does not sweep.  The computer overlay
portions obviously still work, as the graphics are all still there, but
the analog/digital mode switch results in the same trace.. a dot in the
center of the screen.  So the sweep is broke in the analog sweep
portions of the front end.  I think.

So I hunted around and chose a 4 channel instead, and ordered it.  I
offered the 2221 as trade, and they said no thanks.  If someone offers
me a fair price, I will ship it off to them.  I thought I would offer my
Piclist friends first dibs.  If nobody wants it, I will probably Ebay it
broken.

No manual or probes, sorry.

This thread can go private to prevent boring everyone else.
Thanks
Chris Eddy~

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'[AD]: AD588, AD569 surplus stock available'
2001\01\19@102655 by mike

flavicon
face
Surplus Analog Devices parts available (Unused) : AD588 (ultra precision reference) 60 off
AD569BD (16 bit DAC) 100 off
AD648JN (Op Amp) 35 off
email TakeThisOuTmikeKILLspamspamwhitewing.co.uk with an offer if interested. (located in UK)
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'[AD]: Selliing 1000+ AT90S4414-8JC Atmel controlle'
2001\01\20@114418 by Richard Sloan

flavicon
face
Selling around 1000 AT90S4414-8JC, never used.

Offers.

Best to email direct.

RemoveMErsloanTakeThisOuTspamspamthemindfactory.com

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'[AD]: HM6116P-3 SRAMs'
2001\01\21@164113 by Matt Bennett

flavicon
face
I have about 1400 HM6116P-3 for sale.  2Kx8 static RAMs, 24 pin plastic
DIP, 0.6" wide package. The date-code appears to be 3D3, but I'm not
sure how to read it, so I don't know what it means.

Mostly the same info as above, plus a picture of the chip:
<http://web.hazmat.com/~mjb/partsforsale/>

Make me an offer.

Matt Bennett

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'[AD]: Software'
2001\01\31@230710 by Peter May

flavicon
face
Did anyone try my debug window?

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'[AD]: Sale of my Newfound PP1 Programmer'
2001\02\09@062040 by Peter Crowcroft
flavicon
face
Because I now make and sell P16Pro (Kit 96) and PICALL (kit117) I have no
use for my old 1995 PP1 Programmer from Newfound.

See it at

http://kitsrus.com/jpg/pp1.jpg

The extra firmware IC and the ZIF socket are included in the sle. What you
see is what you get.

Price $US25 cash currency notes sent to me. Includes airmail postage.

Or pay on my secure site on my webpage.


regards,

Peter Crowcroft
           DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd
     PO Box 88458, Sham Shui Po, Hong Kong
Voice: 852-2720 0255   Fax: 852-2725 0610
Web:  http://kitsrus.com     Email: EraseMEpeterEraseMEspamkitsrus.com
   Number One in Electronic Kits Worldwide
------------------------------------------------------------------

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'[AD]: Re: Car alarm.'
2001\02\12@231553 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> Hi,
>     You can make your own car alarm security and starter interrupt for only
> 10.00$. See here: http://www.total.net/~reytek
> Reytek-Electro

Just to save everyone else the trouble.

- The plans are $10 CDN. Not the parts.
- The page is written in French.
- This is clearly an ad and should have a [AD]: tag on it. I'm adding one.

BAJ

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'[AD]: PIC based Webserver / Web Client based on AN'
2001\02\14@084953 by Richard Rooney

flavicon
face
See,
http://www.orlin.com

for Hardware supporting the Microchip application note AN731.

Orlin Technology Ltd.
8 St Andrews Park,
Swords,
Co. Dublin,
Ireland.

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2001\02\14@085626 by D Lloyd

flavicon
face
part 1 908 bytes content-type:text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi,

Hmmmmmm. That's not unlike my University project.....(!)
Nice device, the 7600.....although I think Ethernet will probably be the
way to go.

Dan




(Embedded     Richard Rooney <RemoveMErichard.....spamORLIN.COM>.....spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>> image moved   14/02/2001 13:38
to file:
pic06486.pcx)





Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list
     <
PICLIST.....spam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent by:  pic microcontroller discussion list <spam_OUTPICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU>


To:   EraseMEPICLISTKILLspamspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
cc:
Subject:  [AD]: PIC based Webserver / Web Client based on AN731 available.

Security Level:?         Internal


See,
http://www.orlin.com

for Hardware supporting the Microchip application note AN731.

Orlin Technology Ltd.
8 St Andrews Park,
Swords,
Co. Dublin,
Ireland.

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part 2 165 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream; (decode)

part 3 136 bytes
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'[AD]: New PicStart Plus For Sale'
2001\02\14@105812 by T C

picon face
Brand New Picstart Plus still in shrinkwrap.
$120 + $5 Shipping

Please email me directly.
Thanks,
Terry

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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2001\02\14@111915 by Thomas C. Sefranek

face picon face
Yes, we really need THREE copies of your ad.

T C wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--
 *
 |  __O    Thomas C. Sefranek  tcsspamBeGonespamcmcorp.com
 |_-\<,_   Amateur Radio Operator: WA1RHP
 (*)/ (*)  Bicycle mobile on 145.41, 448.625 MHz

ARRL Instructor, Technical Specialist, VE Contact.
hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html
http://www.harvardrepeater.org

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'[AD]: Looking for contract work 15 years experienc'
2001\02\14@114804 by Richard Sloan

flavicon
face
Very skilled firmware developer with 15 year experience looking for contract work.

Worked with nearly every language and every popular microcontroller available today.

Upto date on most new technologies, MP3, DVD, embedded Internet etc....

Email me direct at spamrsloanSTOPspamspamRemoveMEthemindfactory.com and we can discuss projects and how I may fit in and help.

Thanks.

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2001\02\14@121231 by Richard Sloan

flavicon
face
Should have also mentioned I do hardware design and also PCB layout.

 >>  Very skilled firmware developer with 15 year experience looking for
 >>   contract work.

 >>  Worked with nearly every language and every popular microcontroller
 >>   available today.

 >>  Upto date on most new technologies, MP3, DVD, embedded Internet etc....

 >>  Email me direct at @spam@rsloanEraseMEspamTakeThisOuTthemindfactory.com and we can discuss projects
 >>   and how I may fit in and help.

 >>  Thanks.

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'[AD]: RE: Car alarm. (correction)'
2001\02\14@160742 by Herbert Graf

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

    Nevertheless this is clearly an ad and should have the [AD]: tag. TTYL

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'[AD]: New PicStart Plus For Sale'
2001\02\15@025224 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
Thomas C. Sefranek wrote:
>
> Yes, we really need THREE copies of your ad.
>
> T C wrote:
>
> > Brand New Picstart Plus still in shrinkwrap.
> > $120 + $5 Shipping


Hi, which firmware version is it? That is an important
part of it's value. If it is not the latest firmware
it won't program 16F877 etc, and the owner will need
to buy a 40 pin PIC and program with the new firmware
and plug that inside the Picstart Plus and then throw
away the 40 pin OTP chip which is already in there.
I had to do mine a few months back. This changes the
price significantly! How much are they charging for
new Picstarts?
-Roman

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2001\02\15@052814 by Michael Rigby-Jones

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

Probably a better idea to keep the original chip, and buy a 17C44JW.  That
way you will never need to buy another chip for firmware upgrades.

Mike

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2001\02\23@152124 by T C

picon face
On EBay: Item 1216560548

cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1216560548
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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'[AD]: Online book'
2001\03\15@205240 by Sean H. Breheny
face picon face
Hi all,

This isn't really an ad, but I tagged it as that because it does have to do
with selling stuff.

For a while, I've had the idea to write a tutorial on wireless
communication for microcontrollers, for the beginner to intermediate user.
Since I think that it is unlikely that I could put the time and effort into
making this a real book, I have been thinking of possibly doing it as a
web-based tutorial which was freely available. I was also considering
offering kits of the examples from the tutorial.

The tutorial would start out with very basic theory of radio communication
and go up through low to mid data rate digital communications. It would
focus on the practical, but would also give the theory behind most of what
was presented. It would also include some optical communications, low-power
comms, and a smattering of some of the neat tips and tricks I've learned
from watching this list for about 4 years.

What do you think? How much interest is there in this? Would anyone buy the
kits? (I'm not looking to make a living from this, but I would like to do a
little more than break even so that I can justify the time I'd need to put
into writing the tutorial and testing out the examples).

Thanks,

Sean

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2001\03\15@223717 by Jim Paul

picon face
Sean,

I'm an amateur radio operator, among other things, and I for one
would like to see the tutorial.  As a matter of fact, I might even be
able to help.  And if the kits were reasonably priced, I would buy
them just so I could follow the tutorial.  Let me know what comes
of this idea.

                                                           Regards,

                                                      Jim   KA9QHR

{Original Message removed}

2001\03\15@232608 by Ron Wilder

flavicon
face
I'd be interested.  I just bought the tranceiver dev kit from parallax (uses
the link modules), but would love to save some $$$ if it's easy.  I've been a
licensed ham (K6RON) for 29 yrs but haven't gotten too much into the RF stuff.
The kit is at 433 Mhz.
What's your timeframe?
Ron

"Sean H. Breheny" wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\03\15@235800 by Randy Glenn

picon face
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I'd pay a reasonable amount of money for this. I've been toying with
the idea of a solar-powered radio webserver since reading that page
about the potato-powered one, and such a tutorial would help.

- -Randy Glenn

This coming from the guy with a system tray 10 icons wide... by 2
tall... yes, I am insane ;)
=================================================
Randy_Glenn-at-tvo.org - PICxpert-at-picxpert.com
PICxpert-at-yahoo.com - PICxpert-at-home.com
           http://www.picxpert.com/
=================================================

- {Original Message removed}

2001\03\16@091316 by Mark Skeels

picon face
Hi, Sean.

I for one would be very interested in this. I might also buy a kit,
depending on price/functionality. I have little/no background in radio and I
have often thought it would be neat to create remote controls and wireless
data links for stuff around the house. (Only a geek would do this...) I
always learn best by doing.

Mark

{Original Message removed}

2001\03\16@101703 by Mike Mansheim

flavicon
face
I would be interested - it's a subject I'd like to learn about.  After
reading your explanation of IIR filtering, I'm certain you would do a
good job of writing it.  And, even though I'm a cheapskate of immense
proportions, I would buy a kit if it was a convenient "one stop" way to
get all the parts to start.
One question:  does this subject include the technology used in, for
example, TV remotes, or only radio based wireless communications?
(you mentioned "optical" - I'm not sure what that means in this
context - shows the depth of my non-understanding of this subject)

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2001\03\16@140209 by Joan Ilari

flavicon
face
>  What do you think?

Very interesting

>  How much interest is there in this?

See above

>  Would anyone buy the kits?

Depending on the price, yes

Joan

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2001\03\16@141045 by Simon Ethier

flavicon
face
Hey, what kit ?  we wanna know !


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joan Ilari" <spamjoan.ilari.....spam@spam@TERRA.ES>
To: <spam_OUTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AD]: Online book


{Quote hidden}

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2001\03\16@141505 by Bruce Smith

picon face
Where can we get this kit ?
};-D

----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Ethier" <Seth889spam_OUTspamSTARTREKMAIL.COM>
To: <spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 2:08 PM
Subject: Re: [AD]: Online book


{Quote hidden}

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2001\03\16@173425 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
Hi all,

Thanks for the responses, it looks like there may be some interest :-)

I have a tentative table of contents and a lot of ideas for the tutorial
and kits, but they are not finished yet. I was planning on really starting
work on this after I finished my BSEE degree requirements, in early May. My
idea was to do this as a summer project, so if I do it, it should be
completed by around August, perhaps earlier if I shorten the tutorial or do
it in sections, in which case I could release parts of it at a time.

For those who haven't followed this from the beginning, the idea is that I
would write a fairly extensive free web-based tutorial on simple wireless
communications for microcontrollers, including RF and IR links. It would be
organized like a book, and would cover material from basic radio
communications theory up through low to mid data rate digital
communications, in a mainly practical way but with enough theory to
understand what is going on.

It would have several design examples with code and schematics, and I would
sell kits including all the necessary parts and a PCB for each design example.

I'm open to any suggestions (such as the one to include info on IR TV
remotes), and I'll let you all know as soon as I decide if I am going to do
this.

Thanks,

Sean



At 02:13 PM 3/16/01 -0500, you wrote:
>Where can we get this kit ?
>};-D

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2001\03\17@054825 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I'm open to any suggestions (such as the one to include info on IR TV
?remotes), and I'll let you all know as soon as I decide if I am going to do
>this.

This can probably be satisfied with links to existing sites which already exist
carrying a lot of IR remote specific info.

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2001\03\18@153934 by Jagath Ekanayake

flavicon
face
I am interested in too ...

jagath

>>> spamshb7KILLspamspamCORNELL.EDU 03/16/01 02:52 >>>
Hi all,

This isn't really an ad, but I tagged it as that because it does have to do
with selling stuff.

For a while, I've had the idea to write a tutorial on wireless
communication for microcontrollers, for the beginner to intermediate user.
Since I think that it is unlikely that I could put the time and effort into
making this a real book, I have been thinking of possibly doing it as a
web-based tutorial which was freely available. I was also considering
offering kits of the examples from the tutorial.

The tutorial would start out with very basic theory of radio communication
and go up through low to mid data rate digital communications. It would
focus on the practical, but would also give the theory behind most of what
was presented. It would also include some optical communications, low-power
comms, and a smattering of some of the neat tips and tricks I've learned
from watching this list for about 4 years.

What do you think? How much interest is there in this? Would anyone buy the
kits? (I'm not looking to make a living from this, but I would like to do a
little more than break even so that I can justify the time I'd need to put
into writing the tutorial and testing out the examples).

Thanks,

Sean

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They are intended for the addressee only and are not to be read, used, copied
or disseminated by anyone receiving them in error.  If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify the sender by return email and delete this message
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The views expressed in this email are those of the sender and do not necessarily
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2001\03\18@193540 by shane

flavicon
face
Yes, this looks like it would be extremely interesting.  I would definitey encourage you to write this :)

As an aside, Nordic offer a bi-directional radio chip.

433Mhz, 20kbps, bi-directional, no manchester encoding required (just r/w standard RS232 from a shift register), selectable for 2
channel, 4-wire interface, in a so-20 package, with 8 external components needed.  Needs 4Mhz crystal, a few inductors and a few
capacitors. Works a treat. They supply gerber designs, and the chips are around $US3.50 ea.  See http://www.nvlsi.no/thenRF0433.htm.

Cheers,
Shane.

> {Original Message removed}

2001\03\19@080249 by iso-8859-1?Q?Sari=F1ana?=

flavicon
face
>I have a tentative table of contents and a lot of ideas for the tutorial
>and kits, but they are not finished yet.

hi,

Can you can send us your tentative table of contents ? I'm sure you'll get
a lot of useful suggestions from the PIC'ers in order to sketch the whole
the project.

cheers and that's a really good idea.

Aaron

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'[AD]: PLCC programmer adapter'
2001\03\19@202918 by David Duffy

flavicon
face
Hi All,
I have a (new) Microchip AC164024 PLCC programmer
adapter for sale. Price is AU$110 including GST. Can
send by Express Post within Australia for extra AU$11.
I bought it for a project a while ago but never used it.
Still in original box. This is the genuine article!
IIRC, these are around AU$200 + tax normally.
Please reply to davidRemoveMEspamaudiovisualdevices.com.au
Regards...

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'[AD]: Add Graphs and Charts to your Editor'
2001\03\22@110843 by Petar Ristanovic

flavicon
face
Hi PIC developers,

As you may have already learned, Microchip Software embedded
development tool PIC C17 have been supported by our product,
Development Assistant for C  (DA-C). DA-C is very popular
due to the quick and easy overview it provides for the entire
project and simple generation of documents for client needs.
It can, in principle, replace Source Editor, but can also be
used parallel to any Source Editor or IDE development environment.

The main DA-C functionalities are:

- Source Editor (in the same window with Flow Chart)
- Flow Chart (structured and non-structured)
- Symbol Browser (usage, value assigning...)
- Call-hierarchy Graph
- Type-hierarchy Graph
- Makefile Generator
- Static Code Analysis (lint like)
- Software Metrics (project data not visible directly from the
 source, complexity...)
- Interface to Version Control Systems
- Intrerface to debuggers (debugging from Editor, Browser, Flow
 Chart, Call-Graph)
- Project Manager

 Microchip C17 (MPLAB) site:
 http://www.RistanCASE.ch/da-c/specificsupport/microchip.htm

 Hi-Tech PIC C site:
 http://www.RistanCASE.ch/da-c/specificsupport/hi-tech.htm

 IAR PIC site:
 http://www.RistanCASE.ch/da-c/specificsupport/iar.htm

regards,
Petar Ristanovic
----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Technical Support                      Tel. ++ 41 (0)1 883 35 70
  RistanCASE GmbH                        Fax  ++ 41 (0)1 883 35 74
  Zielackerstrasse 19               e-mail salesEraseMEspam@spam@xyz-RistanCASE.ch
  CH-8304 Wallisellen                WEB: http://www.RistanCASE.ch
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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'[AD]: Online book'
2001\03\23@205158 by patmurphy

flavicon
face
Hi Shane,
those Nordic chips look interesting, both in features and
in price. Can you tell me where I can order them from?

TIA,

Patrick Murphy
James Valley Electronics
Phone (204) 353-4353

Shane Tolmie wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> > {Original Message removed}

'[AD]:'
2001\03\28@143245 by Jonathan Miller

flavicon
face
FOR SALE:

Hi all
     Is anyone interested in the following, I live in Worcester UK.

RF solutions icepic-jnr-5x  emulates 12c508/509 16c52/54/55/56/57/58.
GBP120

PIC-ICD debugger/programmer for 16f87x (advanced transdata corp).
GBP80

Microchip promate programmer.GBP50

Dataman S4 programmer. GBP220

                                     Regards
                             Jonathan Miller

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'[AD]: Online Book Table of Contents'
2001\03\30@194243 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
Hi everyone,

A while back someone suggested that I post the tentative table of contents
I had for my online book/tutorial on wireless communication for
microcontrollers. Well, here it is, please give suggestions on what you
would like to see included or removed. Please note that this is in outline
form so it has lots of abbreviations and is not in complete sentences.

Thanks,

Sean

Basic Wireless Communication for Microcontrollers
(C) 2001 by Sean H. Breheny
TOC revision #2
(100 pg total)

NOTE: Microcontroller code is not mentioned but would be free to download
from site.
Page lengths are intended to indicate length in typical book pages.

1) Starting Point(1 pg)
       - Why learn about this topic?
       - To learn by doing projects is an effective method
       - What this tutorial assumes: familiarity with micros
         and basic electronics
       - Tutorial structure (including how it can be used as
         either a reference or read beginning to end)
2) Design Example 0: Wired microcontroller Communication Example (3 pg)
       (1 pg text, 1 pg flow chart, 1 pg schematic)
       - Async serial link between two micros, incl. LCD display
       - used as basis for other design examples
3) Wireless Communication Basics (11 pg)
       - What are signals? (1 pg)
       - Block diagram approach to systems (1 pg)
       - Concept of signal strength reduction with distance,effect of noise (1 pg)
       - Concept of Transmitter and Receiver (2 pg)
       - Quick E&M tutorial (3 pg)
       - Antennas & Transmission Lines (3 pg)
4) RF Electronics (13 pg)
       - Passive networks,filters,and resonators (3 pg)
       - Amplifiers(discrete and IC, power and small sig.) (4 pg)
       - Oscillators (2 pg)
       - Simple OOK and FSK modulators and demodulators (2 pg)
       - Microwave ICs, prebuilt RF modules, and other modern techniques (2 pg)
5) Design Example 1: Simple 300 BPS Radio Link (5 pg)
       (1 pg text, 2 pg flow chart, 2 pg schematic)
       - Add OOK modulator and demodulator to Design Example 0
6) Modulation Techniques (13 pg)
       - Concept of Bandwidth (Fourier analysis, Nyquist
         sampling theorem, very basic into to info Theory) (3 pg)
       - More info on noise and modulation techniques (2 pg)
       - Sending digital over an analog channel: (4 pg)
               ASK,multi-freq FSK,PSK,QAM,Spread Spectrum,and
         advanced modulation methods
         (obviously these cannot all be covered in detail, will
          simply show one way of implementing each, plus
           advantages and disadvantages, etc.)
       - Demodulation (2 pg)
       - AGC and Advanced Receiver Design (2 pg)
7) Network and Protocol Design (15 pg)
       - Synchronization and link control (3 pg)
       - channel sharing (2 pg)
       - error detection and correction (3 pg)
       - simple data compression (3 pg)
       - several standards (Xmodem,GSM,Pocsag,?) (4 pg)
8) Design Example 2: Extended Range 300 BPS Radio Link (6 pg)
       (1 pg text, 3 pg chart, 2 pg schematic)
       - Extend range with same power with better
               RF design using prebuilt module, better error handling, and modulation.
9) Regulatory Issues (3 pg)
       - U.S. Frequency Spectrum and Services (1 pg)
       - U.S. approval of electronic devices (1 pg)
       - EU and others (1 pg)
10) Design Example 3: 30kBPS link (6 pg)
       (2 pg text, 2 pg chart, 2 pg schematic)
       - Different freq. band, mod technique, and power level.
11) Tips and Tricks (8 pg)
       - Efficient design tips (1 pg)
       - A few examples (using components in unusual ways, thinking
               of the whole system, multiple functions per component) (3 pg)
       - DSP, both with DSP chips and with microcontrollers (2 pg)
       - Software Radio (2 pg)
12) Design Example 4: IR communication link(3 pg)
       (3 pg text, 1 pg chart, 1 pg schematic)
       - includes info on TV remote control stuff, plus links
13) Last Words (2 pg)
       - How to apply this info (1 pg)
       - Special applications (e.g. RADAR) (1 pg)
Appendix:
A. Where to get RF components (Links)
B. Antenna and Filter Design Info (Links)
       - Dipole, Yagi, spiral, + microstrip and other transmission lines
       - Butterworth,Chebychev,SAW,Xtal,Ceramic,LC filters
C. Very short Math review(4 pg)
D. Bibliography and general links(4 pg)

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'[AD]: Need some FPGA work done..'
2001\04\01@234601 by Chris Eddy
flavicon
face
I need to put some logic in a PAL, CPLD, FPGA, or whatever.  Device to
be determined.
I need to implement a 12 bit input synchronous full adder/subtractor in
a logic part.
I do not want to learn a VHDL system from scratch.. I do not have the
time.
I would like to pay someone for their expertise to generate code and
objects, possibly a programmed part, for me.  I would prefer dealing
with someone who has experience along these lines.  It seems like a
fairly bite sized chunk of work.

If interested, please go private, and I will send full details of the
task at hand.

Thanks!
Chris Eddy~

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'[AD]: Having more fun than allowed'
2001\04\03@091223 by chuck

flavicon
face
Check out my latest creation.
Zapper In-Circuit Bootload Module.
Plugs into a BS2 socket yet let you use your PIC tools.
Uses the meloader bootload software from melabs.
Can work with Assembly, C, PicBasic.

Check it out at:
http://www.elproducts.com

=====
Chuck Hellebuyck
Electronic Products
TakeThisOuTchuckTakeThisOuTspamelproducts.com
*****Program PICs Like a Pro*********
Complete package for only $279.95
Includes: PBPro Compiler, EPIC Programmer, 16F84 PIC, Cable & Batteries
http://www.elproducts.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail.
http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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'[AD]: Good Deal on a New Picstart Plus'
2001\04\09@110150 by T C

picon face
eBay has a Brand New Picstart Plus:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228698680

This could be a great deal in that the auction ends mid-Easter Sunday when
everyone is at their relatives' homes and away from their computers.  Then
they'll rush home to complete their last minute taxes due the next day.
It also is occuring prior to people receiving their IRS refund checks.
It will be interesting to see the final price.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

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2001\04\09@111821 by Rob S

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At 11:01 AM 4/9/01 -0400, you wrote:
>eBay has a Brand New Picstart Plus:
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228698680

Pity it isn't shippable to Eu :-(

Rob

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'[AD]: Prototype Pocket Program auction supports pi'
2001\04\10@030729 by James Newton

face picon face
You have all be hearing about Tony's Pocket Programmer
http://www.bubblesoftonline.com/pocket/pocket.html

And you know the prototype is done and tested, the kits are one the way and
they will sell for a very fair price. Since the entire design is open
source, I feel justified in helping out by being the first US distributor
for this fantastic tool. Details to follow.

For now, Tony Nixon has generously donated his prototype unit to the PICList
in support of the web site. This is a fully working and assembled unit.
Worth more than the kit just for that reason not to mention the fact that it
is the first and only prototype! A collectors item of great potential. And
it could be yours if you place the winning bid at
http://www.piclist.com/techref/auction.asp?a=itm&i=26

Oh, by the way, there is an auction script running at piclist.com now.
http://www.piclist.com/techref/auction.asp
All members are welcomed to post items for sale (at no cost) and bid on
posted items (at no cost). Financial and shipping arrangements to be made
between the buyer and seller. The script is brand new, so do print out your
bid receipts as proof.

Any and all feedback appreciated.

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
EraseMEjamesnewton@spam@spampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

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'[AD]: Auctions'
2001\04\10@092625 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
Thanks James for adding the auction capability.

People need to understand that this is _not_ eBay.

The page is very simple.

You need to identify shipping, etc in your item description.

The site does not support 'proxy bidding'. IE: The full amount of your bid
is immediately visible and applicable.

All bids are public information.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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'[AD]: Promate-II on eBay'
2001\04\10@191003 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
Just a note (I have no idea who the seller is and no involvement financial
or otherwise with this).

There is currently a ProMate II programmer with bunches of modules and some
PICs as one lot on eBay:

Item # 1228234577

Microchip Technologies Pro Mate II Programmer

Current bid is $305, reserve not yet met.

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

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'[AD]: PicStart Plus'
2001\04\14@204958 by T C

picon face
Less than a day left on this PSP:
cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1228698680
It even has the chip to do future upgrades.

Almost guaranteed to be a bargain this weekend :)
Probably isn't worth missing the relatives on Easter or filing for an
extension on taxes though.

Not much of an auction if there's only one lone wolf bidding.

_________________________________________________________________
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'[AD]: new version of picall software'
2001\04\14@220921 by Peter Crowcroft

flavicon
face
Bojan has a new version which can be obtained from  http://picallw.com  and
from  http://kitsrus.com

-------------------------------
Version 0.10: 14-April-2001
-------------------------------
Corrected support for PIC16F84, PIC16F7x, PIC16F62x
Improved support for ATMEL AVRs
Improved command line - for details run PICALLW -?
Improved support for PIC16F8xx family, You can reprogramm some parts of
flash program
and/or data memory without erasing the whole PIC
Improved/corrected some other functions.
Added ISP support for ATMEL AVRs


I am currently adding AVR ISP hardware support to a new version of K117 PCB
which will go out to some members of this List for testing next week I hope.


regards,

Peter Crowcroft
           DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd
     PO Box 88458, Sham Shui Po, Hong Kong
Voice: 852-2720 0255   Fax: 852-2725 0610
Web:  http://kitsrus.com     Email: KILLspampeterspamBeGonespamspamkitsrus.com
   Number One in Electronic Kits Worldwide
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'[AD]: new Basic18 Version Released'
2001\04\17@124453 by Eric James

picon face
Version 1.3 of Basic18 has just been released, changes include:

 *  Support for timer0, timer1, timer2, timer3, the internal ADC, and the
internal PWM
 *  The ability to specify configuration bits in the source code
 *  Function and procedure lookup from the edit menu
 *  Added the Exit For statement
 *  Improved syntax highlighting
 *  Misc. bug fixes

The new Basic18 website can be found at http://basic18.piclist.com

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'[AD]:PICMASTER for 16C6x,7x, and 16F8x PICs'
2001\04\18@155314 by J. Delmonico

picon face
I'm moving and have *got* to shed some stuff.
------------
I'm offering my PICMASTER ICE set up for
sale.  It includes all the parts needed to
emulate 16C6x & 16C7x at 10Mhz with the old bondout
chip, and I was told by the FAE 20Mhz with the new one
I'm including.  Also 16C84, 16F83, 16F84's at up to
10Mhz.  For all, you can configure the oscillator
mode and use the chip as slow as you like.  I'm also
throwing in a bunch of PICs.  Buyer pays shipping
to US address.  For all the details see the auction
under tools at:

www.piclist.com/techref/auction.asp?a=itm&i=29
------------

I am also selling an older Parallax PIC programmer
that will program most 14bit PICs as-is or all
12 & 14 bit PICs with a firmware & tool upgrade
from techtools - they support the programmer.
(See http://tech-tools.com/pconvert.htm).  I'd
like to sell the programmer for US$25 + buyer pays
shipping to USA address.

------------
If you have questions, please drop me an email
at KILLspamphp_44spam_OUTspam.....yahoo.com

Thanks,
  Jim



__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/

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'[AD]: Portable PicMaster setup.'
2001\04\21@161733 by John Craft

flavicon
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Yea, Yea,  Shameless commerce, I know.  But with my tech-tools setup, It's
wasted technology.

PicMaster Portable setup.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1232032161

John C.

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'[AD]: PICSTART For Sale c/w assorted PIC's'
2001\04\23@173923 by Hugh Demann

picon face
UK

PICSTART plus development system for sale complete with all leads and
software, cables etc AS NEW used about 3 or 4 times. Cost of this system
is #156 (Farnell) I am also including #70 + worth of assorted PIC
devices (see list). That's around #230's worth combined.

Asking a very reasonable #120 for the lot, buyer pays shipping costs.
Cheque payment in sterling, goods ship when funds cleared.

Alternatively PICSTART only, #100
Devices only, #30

E-mail me if interested at @spam@hughdemannspamhotmail.com

chips are:

16C84 x 3
16F84 x 2
16C71 RW x 3
16C54 RW x 1

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'[AD]: FOR SALE PIC Millenium board starter kit'
2001\04\23@174827 by Hugh Demann

picon face
"The Bluebird Electronics millenium board starter kit contains all the
necessary components to start learning the intricacies of the PIC and is
aimed at both engineers and students"

It contains the following features:

regulator and reset components, choice of 4 or 8 MHz oscillator module
to drive the PIC, prototyping block for project expansion, sockets for
40, 28 (narrow), 18 and 8 pin PIC's. Alphanumeric LCD display module (16
characters x 2 line) with seperate back-light control, 4 seven segment
LED displays, 6 undedicated LEDs. 3 x 4 keypad for data input, dual
RS232 ports, thermistor, potentiometer, 4 switches, 4 push buttons.
Prototyping breadboard area.

Connectors are provided for an internal ACSPO programmer for in-situ
programming. The board is fully assembled and a circuit diagram is
provided together with a 3.5" disk with examples of source codefor both
CCs-Q compliler and assembler for projects based on the board. Examples
of applications include LED flashers, LEd to LCD display driving,
keyboard interfacing, A/D routines, RS232 interfacing and many more.
Each project is supplied with rellevant wiring information and is fully
commented to assist the userin following the program.

NOTE The user will need a programmer such as the PICSTART Plus to
develop the software and program a PIC micro.

All-in-all a very powerfull learning / development tool. This board has
never been used. It was bought with a project in mind and then something
else came along - hence it is up for sale now.

List price in the UK is #112 - I'm asking #65 for it, buyer pays
postage/shipping costs. Cheque in pounds sterling as payment, items
ships when funds cleared.

E-mail me if interested at hughdemannspam@spam@hotmail.com

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'[AD]: [OT]: Battery surplus'
2001\04\26@110253 by tcrist

flavicon
face
OK Piclist,  I'm going to get a reputation for the guy that's always trying
to get rid of something.  Here is our surplus du jour:

We have about 20,000  three cell NiMH AAA batteries in surplus.  They are
new in boxes of 480 packs per box and each box weighs 40 lbs.  As before, we
are offering to send these boxes to anyone who wants one at the cost of
shipping.  I am not willing to break the boxes down into smaller quantities.
I would also prefer to ship them domestically.

The packs have heat shrinking, and 1 inch red and black leads.  The leads
are terminated with a female connector, with 0.100" spacing.

We bought these batteries as part of a larger contractual agreement.  Our
products have a very long warranty, and quality testing has shown that these
batteries are not good enough in the three year timeframe with our methods
of charge/discharge.  The original source is BYD (China).

As an engineer, it gives me the willies that our alternative is to pay for
these batteries to go into some landfill.  Therefore, I am offering them to
the largest set of engineers I can think of (piclist).

If you want a box, email me your name and shipping address.  The two options
for paying for shipment via UPS is COD, or we prepay shipping, and bill you.
Let me know which you prefer.  We are located in Tucson, AZ.  I'll leave it
to you to calculate UPS shipping charges.

Thanks,

Tim Crist
Tri-tronics, Inc

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'[AD]: Battery surplus'
2001\04\26@140529 by jamesnewton

face picon face
The postal code for Tucson is 85710 for anyone who is interested in
calculating the UPS shipping cost. In fact, just click on this and enter
your City and Postal code.
wwwapps.ups.com/servlet/QCCServlet?action=packageinfo&origcountry=US&
origincity=Tucson&origpostal=85710

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
STOPspamjamesnewtonEraseMEspampiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

2001\04\26@144411 by Tcrist

flavicon
face
Ok, for people who are filtering out [OT]: but got the [AD]: after I changed
the topics, Tim's email address is
@spam@tcrist@spam@spamspam_OUTTRITRONICS.COM

I've set this email to reply to him so if you just hit reply, you should be
ok.

Tim is taking a chance on billing people for shipping here. If I find out
that anyone doesn't pay up, be prepared to get kicked off the list at least.

---
James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
.....jamesnewtonKILLspamspamEraseMEpiclist.com 1-619-652-0593
PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

'[AD]: [OT]: Battery surplus'
2001\04\27@015341 by Vasile Surducan

flavicon
face
Tim, with all respect for you, last time I send you a mail, remember ?
it was about 6V and 12V power supply, but I've got no answer.
Is your offer valid only for US ?
Vasile


On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Tim Crist wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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'[AD]: qty. 1000 - PIC16F876 - DIP - 4Mhz availabl'
2001\05\01@020214 by shane
flavicon
face
Hi folks,

If any company uses PIC micros out there, we have qty. 1000 available, with lead time of tommorrow via FedEx.  We have moved up to
20Mhz versions for our new products, and are selling off the old stock at cost.

We are based in Christchurch, New Zealand.

Regards,
Shane.
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'[AD]: ICDor PIC'
2001\05\01@153244 by Octavio P Nogueira

flavicon
face
www.propic2.com
or (11) 5506-5335

Friendly Regards

Octavio Nogueira
===================================================
nogueiraTakeThisOuTspamspam_OUTpropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
ProPic tools - low cost PIC programmer and emulator
http://www.propic2.com
===================================================

{Original Message removed}

'[AD]: How to pay?'
2001\05\03@180800 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
About a week ago, someone on this list offered NiMH batteries for the price
of shipping.  I said I'd take a box and it arrived today.  I also got a box
of wall warts the same way from the same person a few months ago.

When I asked for the wall warts, I also asked who to make the check out to,
how much, and where to send it.  I never got a reply.  I made a similar
inquiry when I asked to have the box of batteries sent to me.  That time I
got a CC where my message got forwarded to someone else, but no answers.
Now the batteries have arrived, and I'm asking again:  How much (batteries +
wall warts), who should the check be made out to, and where should it be
sent?

I agreed to pay the shipping, am very happy with that deal, and would like
to hold up my end of the bargaing.  However, I'm not going to keep chasing
this.  If whoever made this offer is still out there, please let me know how
to pay you.


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, STOPspamolinspamspam_OUTembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\05\04@014026 by Damon Hopkins

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face
you could just pay me :) I'll take $200..

Thanks,

               Damon

On a side note.. It's good to see someone actually trying to be honest
on the internet..


Olin Lathrop wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\05\04@024235 by Bill Westfield

face picon face
> I agreed to pay the shipping, am very happy with that deal, and would like
> to hold up my end of the bargaing.  However, I'm not going to keep chasing
> this.  If whoever made this offer is still out there, please let me know how
> to pay you.

My second (accidentally sent) box of batteries came with an invoice
attached.  We're supposed to pay:

       Tri-tronics
       P.O. Box 77660
       Tucson, AZ 85731-7660

I'm not sure what will happen if you send a check without an associated
invoice/etc.  The trouble with this sort of deal is that it tends to be
so far out of normal process that the company manages to confuse itself
into not knowing how to take your money...

BillW

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2001\05\04@085336 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> My second (accidentally sent) box of batteries came with an invoice
> attached.  We're supposed to pay:
>
>         Tri-tronics
>         P.O. Box 77660
>         Tucson, AZ 85731-7660

Did it say how much to pay?


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, spamBeGoneolinSTOPspamspamspam_OUTembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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'[AD]: Battery surplus'
2001\05\07@215511 by Brian Reed

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I received my box of batteries today - sweet!

Has anyone determined the battery model used?  They seem to
be from BYD, one of two models.  From http://www.bydbattery.com
click on "Products List" and see AAA400 & AAA500.  The
"Nominal Capacity" of each is 400 or 500 respectively ... is that
a mAh capacity rating?

Thanks,

- Bri
-

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2001\05\07@220823 by Ethan Swint

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Most of the AAA NiMH batteries I've seen give a capacity of 500 - 600 mAh,
so that would be in the ball park.  If anyone got an extra box of these and
doesn't want all of them, I would like some (~20 packs or so?) for a home
hobby project.

Ethan Swint
.....Ethan_Swint@spam@spamRemoveMEbaylor.edu

{Original Message removed}

2001\05\07@221746 by Bob Ammerman

picon face
Does anybody know a part number and source for the connector to mate with
the one on the battery? (both a PC mount connector and a wire tail
connector, preferably).

Bob Ammerman
RAm Systems
(contract development of high performance, high function, low-level
software)

{Original Message removed}

2001\05\08@010532 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
>Has anyone determined the battery model used?  They seem to
>be from BYD, one of two models.  From http://www.bydbattery.com
>click on "Products List" and see AAA400 & AAA500.  The
>"Nominal Capacity" of each is 400 or 500 respectively ... is that
>a mAh capacity rating?

I tested a pack and got 380mAH (19 mA for 20 hours) after charging it at
100 mA for 6 hours.

-Bob

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2001\05\08@075038 by Martin Wehner

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Hi everyone-

about a week ago, Tim Crist sent out boxes of batteries for the cost of
shipping only. I was one of the people who wanted to get one, but didn't
e-mail him fast enough.
He told me, however, that a few of the people received double-shipments by
accident.
Is there anyone out there willing to send me one of those boxes they received
by mistake?
My zip-code: 02171 (Boston area)
I am willing to pay shipping, even if it's all the way from the West coast.

Thanks-

       Martin



-------------------------------------------
Martin Wehner

e-mail: <spamBeGonemartin.....spamspam_OUTcyclotomic.com>
web:    http://www.cyclotomic.com/~martin
-------------------------------------------

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2001\05\08@093841 by Olin Lathrop

face picon face
> about a week ago, Tim Crist sent out boxes of batteries for the cost of
> shipping only. I was one of the people who wanted to get one, but didn't
> e-mail him fast enough.
> He told me, however, that a few of the people received double-shipments by
> accident.
> Is there anyone out there willing to send me one of those boxes they
received
> by mistake?
> My zip-code: 02171 (Boston area)
> I am willing to pay shipping, even if it's all the way from the West
coast.

I got a double shipment here in the Boston area.  These boxes are quite
heavy and a hassle to ship.  I don't know which town is 02171, but could you
come to Littleton Common to pick it up?


********************************************************************
Olin Lathrop, embedded systems consultant in Littleton Massachusetts
(978) 742-9014, olin@spam@spamspamBeGoneembedinc.com, http://www.embedinc.com

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2001\05\08@102307 by Lawrence Lile

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Tim told me they were supposedly rated 550 mAH.

I've built up a 12V stack of them that is theoretically 10 Amp-Hours.

I'm probably going to build a charger based on the Maxim MAX713 charge
controller

http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm?pdf_num=1666

They have a reference design all ready for a NIMH charger that looks pretty
straighhtforward.  They also have the thing in kit form as an eval kit.  I
don't have a price yet on their eval kit, probably not expensive, though.

http://www.maxim-ic.com/BuyMaxim/Sales.htm

So far, I've been charging with just a voltmeter attached, with an old car
battery charger through a current limiting resistor.  I watch the voltmeter
for a negative voltage slope, then quit.    I know from reading datasheets
that NIMH batteries have a negative voltage slope when fully charged.  What
I'm unclear on is, is the negative voltage slope measured :

1.  When there is no charging current

or 2.  When charging current is flowing?

I find the voltage floating all over the place while these batteries are
charging, and I can't imagine finding the negative voltage slope after
watching the voltmeter wander up and down so much while charging with about
2 amps.  For instance, I watched the voltage during charging go from a peak
of 13.05 volts, down to 12.8 volts, back up to 13.1 volts, wander down to
12.9, then back up to 13.2.  All this time, the batteries had about 2 amp
charging current. No way they were near charged.    Anybody got any
clarification on this?


-- Lawrence Lile

{Original Message removed}

2001\05\08@105439 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
>
>So far, I've been charging with just a voltmeter attached, with an old car
>battery charger through a current limiting resistor.  I watch the voltmeter
>for a negative voltage slope, then quit.    I know from reading datasheets
>that NIMH batteries have a negative voltage slope when fully charged.  What
>I'm unclear on is, is the negative voltage slope measured :
>
>1.  When there is no charging current
>
>or 2.  When charging current is flowing?

When charging current is flowing.
Also, the charging current is from a constant current source.
Otherwise, the small droop will be masked.
One further wrinkle, it's NICAD that has the negative droop.
NIMH just flattens out.


>I find the voltage floating all over the place while these batteries are
>charging, and I can't imagine finding the negative voltage slope after
>watching the voltmeter wander up and down so much while charging with about
>2 amps.  For instance, I watched the voltage during charging go from a peak
>of 13.05 volts, down to 12.8 volts, back up to 13.1 volts, wander down to
>12.9, then back up to 13.2.  All this time, the batteries had about 2 amp
>charging current. No way they were near charged.    Anybody got any
>clarification on this?

Charge from a constant current source, and all will be revealed. :)

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2001\05\08@112336 by Dan Larson

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face
On Tue, 8 May 2001 09:23:01 -0500, Lawrence Lile wrote:

>Tim told me they were supposedly rated 550 mAH.
>
>I've built up a 12V stack of them that is theoretically 10 Amp-Hours.
>
>I'm probably going to build a charger based on the Maxim MAX713 charge
>controller

I've used these chips for charging my robot battery packs. The MAX712 is the
device to use for NiMH because it terminates on zero slope. The MAX713 terminates
on a negative slope. Those are the only two differences between them. The only
down-side is that they will drop into fast charge for 15 minutes or so in a
power input glitch. I am actually using the MAX712 with the zero slope termination
on my NiCd packs simply because it terminates sooner. My robots sit connected to
there chargers when not in use so I don't like cooking those cells too long
and the 712 drops into trickle charge sooner, especially after a power glitch.

{Quote hidden}

I think the chips work by spacing samples out over many minutes, so the distance
between two samples can be as much as 15-20 minutes (IIRC) and I imagine that
this acts as a low pass filter and thus the longer intervals show the slope
better.

Dan

>
>
>-- Lawrence Lile
>
>{Original Message removed}

2001\05\08@160448 by goflo

flavicon
face
Been using 2 sets of 4, Sanyo NiMH 1500 mah for a couple
of years now in an old NEC portable. Avg load ~130 ma,
12-13 hours duration before low batt led, with regular
use - I've got a background utility running which tracks
time powered-up.

Chging scheme is LM239 configured as 1A constant-current
source (because that's what was in the junk box).

I monitor chging V & T - The batteries tracked the voltage
droop per the data sheet closely at first, but the effect
disappeared early on.

I was never able to observe the described temp behaviour.

What is very noticeable is the rate at which V_chg increases
with increasing ambient T.
I would'nt accuse my methods of rigor, but perhaps acquiring
predictable chging data requires a constant temp environment?

Hmmm, use # 819 for a Peltier beer chiller...

regards, Jack


David VanHorn wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2001\05\08@162700 by Peter Tiang

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> I monitor chging V & T - The batteries tracked the voltage
> droop per the data sheet closely at first, but the effect
> disappeared early on.
>
> I was never able to observe the described temp behaviour.

   That's weird, did you observe the temp close
   to the cell or outside the battery pack ?

>
> What is very noticeable is the rate at which V_chg increases
> with increasing ambient T.

   If I remembered correctly, you should be
   monitoring the pack voltage when the current
   source is removed.

   This will take care of the voltage drop due to
   charging current which will vary with cell
   impedance (which is a function of T).

   Incidentally, this method of "pulsed" constant
   current charge is better at preventing dendrites
   formation in the battery cells.

> I would'nt accuse my methods of rigor, but perhaps acquiring
> predictable chging data requires a constant temp environment?

   As explained above.

Regards,
Peter Tiang

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2001\05\08@172508 by goflo

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Peter Tiang wrote:
>
> > I monitor chging V & T - The batteries tracked the voltage
> > droop per the data sheet closely at first, but the effect
> > disappeared early on.
> >
> > I was never able to observe the described temp behaviour.
>
>     That's weird, did you observe the temp close
>     to the cell or outside the battery pack ?

Thermocouple probe of a Wavetek 28XT taped to a cell.

{Quote hidden}

Checked the data sheet, no mention of measurement protocol.
I bet you're right. I'll give it a try, thanks.

regards, Jack

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2001\05\09@025140 by Peter Tiang

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face
> >     That's weird, did you observe the temp close
> >     to the cell or outside the battery pack ?
>
> Thermocouple probe of a Wavetek 28XT taped to a cell.

   At full charge the rate of change in cell temperature
   is typically only 1C/min. What's the resolution of your
   28XT (dependent on your thermocouple range) ?

   Most battery charger that supports dT/dt termination
   does so when the rate reached 1C/min or when a
   negative slope occurs.

{Quote hidden}

   I checked some 5 years old charging plots that
   I had, the voltage droop for NiMH is much more
   pronounced on the off-current curve than the
   on-current curve (almost flat).

> regards, Jack
>

Cheers,
Peter Tiang

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2001\05\09@152426 by goflo

flavicon
face
Peter Tiang wrote:

>     At full charge the rate of change in cell temperature
>     is typically only 1C/min. What's the resolution of your
>     28XT (dependent on your thermocouple range) ?

Display reads either 0.1 deg F or 0.1 deg C increments.

>     I checked some 5 years old charging plots that
>     I had, the voltage droop for NiMH is much more
>     pronounced on the off-current curve than the
>     on-current curve (almost flat).

Put a partially discharged pack on the chgr, periodically
interrupted the chg to measure V - Seems to behave as you
suggest. Droop point was about 30 mv lower than the data
sheet shows, but ambient T was near 90F...
Think I'll put an old computer to work running the chgr,
keep track of environmental factors, and see if the data
makes any sense.

Thanks for the help, Jack

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'[AD]: PIC16C66-04/SP, 200k pieces need a good home'
2001\05\10@145020 by John Aeder

flavicon
face
I have 200,000+ pieces in a '99 date code.  Please advise me which
company is using these in production.  I am selling these at $1.25 each,
less than 50% of their normal price.  Thanks.

Best regards,

John Aeder
Pyramid Technologies Inc.
Bill To/Ship To:
1 Technology Drive
Suite C525
Irvine, CA 92618
(949) 864-1865 Direct
(949) 864-1869 Fax
<http://www.pyramidtechnologiesinc.com/direct.htm>

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'[AD]: [PIC]: PIC16C66-04/SP, 200k pieces need a go'
2001\05\11@060339 by Roman Black

flavicon
face
John Aeder wrote:
>
> I have 200,000+ pieces in a '99 date code.  Please advise me which
> company is using these in production.  I am selling these at $1.25 each,
> less than 50% of their normal price.  Thanks.


Hi John, are these DIP or SOIC?? I may be interested
in a quantity of them. Shame they are only 4MHz,
that reduces their attractiveness a lot. Many companies
are upgrading to order the faster PICs and 4MHz parts
are becoming common in large surplus sell-offs.
Contact me off-list if you like.
-Roman

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'[AD]: Basic18 new release'
2001\05\11@115040 by Eric James

picon face
 This major upgrade over version 1.3 consists of a new code editor
with many new features, table support, hardware setup tools, and
several other improvements and bug fixes.

You can download your copy of Basic18 from:
http://basic18.piclist.com

Eric James
spam_OUTejames2KILLspamspam.....yahoo.com

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'[AD]: Surplus Items - Tele Board, etc'
2001\05\12@185830 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
A few months ago I surplussed some PIC controller boards from an
old telephone-oriented project. I still have several of those left,
as well as some other surplus items. Following is the original post:

 For anyone wanting to control an ISD25xx voice recorder chip
 and/or MC145436 DTMF decoder using a PIC 16C63/etc chip,
 I have some surplus pcbs from a busted telephone project,
 circa 1999. There are also parts available. Could do a partial
 kit.

 Pcb designed with complete analog I/F for the ISD, including
 LM358 opamp/filter, electret, speaker. Also, includes telephone
 I/F [no off-hook pick-up], pushbuttons, RS232, EEPROM, etc.
 Makes a nice SBC for hacking.

There is also another surplus board that mounts a 44-pin PLCC
PIC16C64/74 plus two 32K SRAM chips - if you actually need some
memory with your PIC.

The sale page is at:   http://www.oricomtech.com/sale.htm

Contact me off-list if interested.

best regards,
- Dan Michaels
Oricom Technologies
==============================

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'[AD]: Need a VB RS232 Guy for a quick mop up proje'
2001\05\16@225546 by James Newton

face picon face
The main developer got called away to Korea and we need a VB GUI, RS232,
"gather and present the data", programmer to slam out some quick code to
talk to a logger and present the data then save it to a data file or so.
Take over part written code or re-write. No DSP. Weird hours ok. Needs to be
in the San Diego (North is best) area. Pretty good quick money. I've got the
logger done but there may be some debugging so you would have to work with
me some... <EVIL GRIN> Timeline is starting middle of next week and
delivering no later than June 1. Should be between 16 and 40 hours total
work. We need to know when you will be available by tomorrow so we can plan
the work schedule.

James Newton
@spam@jamesnewtonspam_OUTspamgeocities.com
1-619-652-0593 phone

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'[AD]: Electroplater and P-200 processor'
2001\05\19@152949 by Andy N1YEW

picon face
i put a p-200 and an electroplater on http://www.piclist.com/techref/auction.asp?a=itm&i=32

andy
buyer pays shipping

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2001\05\19@200811 by jamesnewton

face picon face
What socket type is a P-200? Same as a P-90? I wonder if it would be a good
upgrade for my Linux box...

http://www.piclist.com/techref/auction.asp is the start page for the
auctions BTW

---
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PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

2001\05\19@221842 by michael brown

flavicon
face
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Newton. Admin 3" <jamesnewton.....spam.....piclist.com>
To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 7:05 PM
Subject: Re: [AD]: Electroplater and P-200 processor


> What socket type is a P-200? Same as a P-90? I wonder if it would be a
good
> upgrade for my Linux box...

A P-200 is socket 7 cpu.  If it is a P-200 MMX it needs a split voltage
supply.  A P-90 is likely to be a 5 volt processor in a socket 5.  The short
answer is that the cpu is probably not compatible with your motherboard.

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2001\05\20@052431 by Mg

flavicon
face
A P90 is not a socket 5 cpu. I have a rebadged P100 which is a socket 7,
rebadged meaning it is a P90 sold as a  P100. Have a look at the socket
itself - what type of socket it is will be on the socket. The P54C pentiums
from P75 to P200 are socket 7 cpus with a voltage of either 3.5V or 3.4V.
The P55C pentiums are MMX cpus 150MHz - 233MHz with a dual voltage of 2.8V.

To upgrade your cpu, ensure the socket type on your mainboard is a socket 7.
You then have to ensure the voltage, multiplier and bus speed are set
correctly. Alot of mainboards have the jumper settings listed (silkscreened)
somewhere on the board itself. They might even be DIP switches.
So for a P54C P200 cpu: Bus speed: 66MHz Multiplier: 3x Voltage: (Will be
listed on the top or underneath the cpu. Either 3.4V or 3.5V).
For a P55C P200 (mmx) cpu: Bus speed: 66MHz Multiplier: 3x Voltage 2.8V
Dual.

A good way to tell immediatly if your cpu is an MMX one, look for cache
things or surface mount things on top of the cpu, and usually the cpu is
back where the pins are and silver where the die is.. It might have a
fan/heatsink preattached to it as well..
P54C cpus are just that dark grey colour with no surface mount stuff on top,
might be gold where the die is.
Info for both cpus will be listed on top of it on underneath, and maybe if
it has a preattached fan/heatsink, under the fan on the top of the
heatsink - 2 clips will be holding on the fan.

If you have the mainboard manual it will give your all the settings and info
you will need to set it up for your P200 cpu.

{Original Message removed}

2001\05\20@073653 by Andy N1YEW

picon face
this is not an mmx as it is a reguilar pentium not a PII. :-)  James it may
be compatible if your MB has a socket 7 ;-)

andy
{Original Message removed}

2001\05\20@081412 by michael brown

flavicon
face
I must have had some kind of brain seizure on the P-90/socket 5 thing.
P-60's and P-75's are higher voltage/different socket.  It's been a while
since I've had to work on one.  BTW, there ARE (no offense intended) MMX
P-I's running at 166Mhz thru 233Mhz (266Mhz in laptops).  All P-1 MMX cpu's
require split voltage.  TTYL

Michael Brown
Instant Net Solutions
http://www.KillerPCs.net

{Original Message removed}

'[AD]: Need a VB RS232 programmer urgently'
2001\05\21@121739 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Ok... This has now reached emergency levels! I can't believe that there
are no PICListers with VB / RS-232 experience who want to make some
extra cash in the San Diego north or L.A. south area.

I've tried local VB groups (no embedded or RS-232), calling friends,
etc...

Does anyone have any other suggestions?

James Newton (PICList Admin #3)
KILLspamjamesnewton@spam@spamKILLspampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593


James Newton wrote on 01-5-16 20:30:

The main developer got called away to Korea and we need a VB GUI, RS232,
"gather and present the data", programmer to slam out some quick code to
talk to a logger and present the data then save it to a data file or so.
Take over part written code or re-write. No DSP. Weird hours ok. Needs
to be in the San Diego (North is best) area. Pretty good quick money.
I've got the logger done but there may be some debugging so you would
have to work with me some... <EVIL GRIN> Timeline is starting middle of
next week and delivering no later than June 1. Should be between 16 and
40 hours total work. We need to know when you will be available by
tomorrow so we can plan the work schedule.

James Newton
jamesnewtonspam_OUTspamKILLspamgeocities.com
1-619-652-0593 phone

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2001\05\21@134809 by Chris Carr

flavicon
face
This is the third attempt. With any luck I will have got the "To" field and
the
Subject Line correct. Should I be wasting all this bandwidth on a very poor
attempt at a joke.

That was a rhetorical question.

Regards Chris
I will now crawl back under my stone and stop annoying everyone.

> Didn't get the "To" field correctly filled out the first time, sorry
James.
>
>
> > Could they be all off line due to a lack of electricity ?
> >
> > 8-)
> > Chris
> >
> > > Ok... This has now reached emergency levels! I can't believe that
there
{Quote hidden}

RS232,
> > > "gather and present the data", programmer to slam out some quick code
to
> > > talk to a logger and present the data then save it to a data file or
so.
> > > Take over part written code or re-write. No DSP. Weird hours ok. Needs
> > > to be in the San Diego (North is best) area. Pretty good quick money.
> > > I've got the logger done but there may be some debugging so you would
> > > have to work with me some... <EVIL GRIN> Timeline is starting middle
of
> > > next week and delivering no later than June 1. Should be between 16
and
{Quote hidden}

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2001\05\21@141643 by Sam Linder

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face
James:
This email only now just showed up on my system. Your original posts did not
come through on the PIC List. Perhaps they didn't make to anyone else
either?

I do have some experience in the area you mention although I don't know if
I'd have time - already working 50 - 60 hour weeks. If you want to pursue an
offline conversation, I can be reached at (714) 236-8979 x1186.
       Sam....

{Original Message removed}

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