Post by thread:[0t]bit,byte,nibble

Kevin Harris & Alison Smith <spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote: > I am wondering if anyone knows where the terms nibble and byte came > from. I am told that Bit comes from Binary Digit. Kevin: "Bit" is, indeed, a contraction of "binary digit". The earliest recorded usage was 1948 or '49, by John Tukey. The first usage of "byte" was in the mid-50's; it's generally agreed that Werner Buchholz coined the term while designing IBM's "Stretch" supercomputer. It's an alteration of the noun "bite", meaning "the amount of food taken at a bite"... The "y" was a deliberate safety feature to prevent the word from accidentally being misspelled "bit". "Nibble" is, obviously, a back-formation of "byte"; it's half a byte (4 bits, or one hexadecimal digit). Although it's often spelled "nybble" -- especially by non-programmers -- that spelling implies that it's pronounced "nigh-ble"; every programmer _I_ know spells it "nibble". -Andy === Andrew Warren - .....fastfwdKILLspam@spam@ix.netcom.com === Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California === http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

The first usage of "byte" was in the mid-50's; it's generally agreed that Werner Buchholz coined the term while designing IBM's "Stretch" supercomputer. It's an alteration of the noun "bite", meaning "the amount of food taken at a bite"... The "y" was a deliberate safety feature to prevent the word from accidentally being misspelled "bit". "Nibble" is, obviously, a back-formation of "byte"; it's half a byte (4 bits, or one hexadecimal digit). AFAIK, a "byte" did not have any inherent size prior to microcomputers and microprocessors (at which point it became 8 bits, since that was the native addressable size.) CDC bytes were 6 bits, IBM varied, and the DEC PDP10 had special "byte pointer" instuctions that could handle any byte size from 1 to 36 bits within its 36-bit words (word addressable machine.) People tried to be careful for a while about not assuming 1byte = 8 bits, but they were lost in the torrent... BillW

William Chops Westfield <.....PICLISTKILLspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote: > AFAIK, a "byte" did not have any inherent size prior to > microcomputers and microprocessors (at which point it became 8 bits, > since that was the native addressable size.) CDC bytes were 6 bits, > IBM varied, and the DEC PDP10 had special "byte pointer" instuctions > that could handle any byte size from 1 to 36 bits within its 36-bit > words (word addressable machine.) Bill: That's true, more or less... The word "byte" was originally defined as the amount used to represent one character; when the word was first coined, a "byte" was a six-bit number. However... The 8-bit definition of "byte" predates microcomputers and microprocessors by over a decade; the IBM System/360, designed in the '50s, started to standardize a "byte" as eight bits. Ever since then, most people have used the word "byte" specifically to mean an eight-bit quantity, and referred to the other sizes -- imprecisely -- as "words". -Andy === Andrew Warren - EraseMEfastfwdspam_OUTTakeThisOuTix.netcom.com === Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California === http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

On Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 03:07:53AM -0800, Andrew Warren wrote: > However... The 8-bit definition of "byte" predates microcomputers and > microprocessors by over a decade; the IBM System/360, designed in the I'd disagree with that; in the mid-70s "byte" was used to represent a small number of bits, usually, but not necessarily, big enough to hold a character. There were machines around with 9 bit and other size bytes. Even in the early 80's the 8 bit byte was not standardized enough for it to be used in the ARPANET protocol descriptions, and the alternative term "octet" was coined to mean an 8 bit quantity, and this term is still used in TCP/IP protocol descriptions. There are still machines running that have byte sizes other than 8, and you still see references to "8-bit bytes" even though by default a byte is almost universally assumed to be 8 bits. > '50s, started to standardize a "byte" as eight bits. Ever since Hmm, your recollections of the '50s would carry more weight if you'd actually been alive then, Andy :-) > eight-bit quantity, and referred to the other sizes -- imprecisely -- > as "words". Ah, "word", there's a whole new ball game. Cheers, Clyde -- Clyde Smith-Stubbs | HI-TECH Software Email: clydespam_OUThtsoft.com | Phone Fax WWW: http://www.htsoft.com/ | USA: (408) 490 2885 (408) 490 2885 PGP: finger @spam@clydeKILLspamhtsoft.com | AUS: +61 7 3354 2411 +61 7 3354 2422 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ANSI C for the PIC! Now shipping! See http://www.htsoft.com for more info.

On Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 04:53:01AM -0800, Andrew Warren wrote: > Clyde Smith-Stubbs <spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote: > > Hmm... If I'd been alive in the '50s, I'd be so old by now that > my memory wouldn't be trustworthy. Well, I remember the Sputniks - and where were you when JFK was shot? Or do Gen-Xers ask where were you when JR was shot? Mind you I still can't get used to these danged transistor radios that come on straight away - how do they get the filaments warmed up so fast? -- Clyde Smith-Stubbs | HI-TECH Software Email: TakeThisOuTclydeEraseMEspam_OUThtsoft.com | Phone Fax WWW: http://www.htsoft.com/ | USA: (408) 490 2885 (408) 490 2885 PGP: finger RemoveMEclydeTakeThisOuThtsoft.com | AUS: +61 7 3354 2411 +61 7 3354 2422 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ANSI C for the PIC! Now shipping! See http://www.htsoft.com for more info.

In fact, IBM copyrighted the term "byte" which is one of the reasons that the international standards community refers to 8 bit quantities as "octets". Tom {Quote hidden}> > That's true, more or less... The word "byte" was originally defined > as the amount used to represent one character; when the word was > first coined, a "byte" was a six-bit number. > > However... The 8-bit definition of "byte" predates microcomputers and > microprocessors by over a decade; the IBM System/360, designed in the > '50s, started to standardize a "byte" as eight bits. Ever since > then, most people have used the word "byte" specifically to mean an > eight-bit quantity, and referred to the other sizes -- imprecisely -- > as "words". > > -Andy > > === Andrew Warren - fastfwdEraseME.....ix.netcom.com > === Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California > === http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

On Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 08:24:42AM -0500, Tom Mariner wrote: > In fact, IBM copyrighted the term "byte" which is one of the reasons that Perhaps you mean trademarked - a single word cannot be copyrighted since it doesn't constitute a "work" under copyright law. In any case this surprises me - do you have any references to substantiate this? -- Clyde Smith-Stubbs | HI-TECH Software Email: EraseMEclydehtsoft.com | Phone Fax WWW: http://www.htsoft.com/ | USA: (408) 490 2885 (408) 490 2885 PGP: finger RemoveMEclydeEraseMEEraseMEhtsoft.com | AUS: +61 7 3354 2411 +61 7 3354 2422 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ANSI C for the PIC! Now shipping! See http://www.htsoft.com for more info.

At 11:51 PM 3/2/98 +1000, you wrote: >On Mon, Mar 02, 1998 at 08:24:42AM -0500, Tom Mariner wrote: >> In fact, IBM copyrighted the term "byte" which is one of the reasons that > >Perhaps you mean trademarked - a single word cannot be copyrighted since it > doesn't >constitute a "work" under copyright law. In any case this surprises me - do you >have any references to substantiate this? > The way I heard it, (at a comms seminar in early 80's I think) was that the ISO standards committee, being comprised of computer manufacturers who didn't want to be dominated by IBM (remember the seven dwarves). Opted for OCTET rather than the IBM terminology 'byte'. I doubt that 'byte' was ever copyrighted or trademarked, but it was certainly industry perception that 'byte' was IBM terminology. The seven dwarves wanted none of that. :-) Ray Gardiner, RemoveMErayspam_OUTKILLspamnetspace.net.au

Even in the early 80's the 8 bit byte was not standardized enough for it to be used in the ARPANET protocol descriptions, and the alternative term "octet" was coined to mean an 8 bit quantity, and this term is still used in TCP/IP protocol descriptions. Ah. There's an interesting bit of trivia. The original ARPANet interface (BBN1822 - an overhandshaked one-bit parallel port) and protocols (NCP) were byte-size independent. You could open up a network connection to another computer using ANY byte-size, specified at the time of open. This was seen (I think) as important to the multi-vendor nature of the network, and their varying natural "byte" sizes. This is probably why they were so exacting with "octet" in the tcp/ip specifications - to clearly distinguish them from the variably-sized "bytes" of the preceding regime (I guess they decided that doing the byte-size independence was an application function (correctly, I think.) The "transition" of arpanet to tcp/ip was officially 1/1/83, although ncp lingered on for quite a while... BillW cisco

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:24:42 -0500, you wrote: >In fact, IBM copyrighted the term "byte" which is one of the reasons that >the international standards community refers to 8 bit quantities as >"octets". I always wondered why they used that word - now I know! {Quote hidden}>Tom > >> >> That's true, more or less... The word "byte" was originally defined >> as the amount used to represent one character; when the word was >> first coined, a "byte" was a six-bit number. >> >> However... The 8-bit definition of "byte" predates microcomputers and >> microprocessors by over a decade; the IBM System/360, designed in the >> '50s, started to standardize a "byte" as eight bits. Ever since >> then, most people have used the word "byte" specifically to mean an >> eight-bit quantity, and referred to the other sizes -- imprecisely -- >> as "words". >> >> -Andy I wonder why no standard term for 16 and 32 bit words has emerged - perhaps there were just too many people in the business by then for any one definition to dominate! ____ ____ _/ L_/ Mike Harrison / White Wing Logic / RemoveMEwwlTakeThisOuTspamnetcomuk.co.uk _/ L_/ _/ W_/ Hardware & Software design / PCB Design / Consultancy _/ W_/ /_W_/ Industrial / Computer Peripherals / Hazardous Area /_W_/

This thread seems to have generated more messages per day than any other - lets see if we can OT it even more :-). As I recall, no doubt incorrectly as I also remember Sputnik, that IBM coined the term "hexadecimal" but that they originally intended to use "Sexadecimal" but the term was deemed unacceptable language for IBM. I note that some PIClisters of Scandinavian origins think porn has been "proved" OK & non-damaging for children and/or young people - I wonder what technical terms we'd be using now if IBM had been so persuaded back then :-} ? -----Original Message----- From: Wynn Rostek <EraseMEwarspamspamBeGonePALMNET.NET> To: RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <PICLISTSTOPspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> Date: Tuesday, 3 March 1998 10:10 Subject: Re: [0t]bit,byte,nibble >At 04:53 AM 3/2/98 -0800, you wrote: > >> Hmm... If I'd been alive in the '50s, I'd be so old by now that >> my memory wouldn't be trustworthy. > >Hey! I resemble that remark! > >Wynn > >(Hi Andy.) >

>As I recall, no doubt incorrectly as I also remember >Sputnik, that IBM coined the term "hexadecimal" but that >they originally intended to use "Sexadecimal" but the term >was deemed unacceptable language for IBM. >I note that some PIClisters of Scandinavian origins think >porn has been "proved" OK & non-damaging for children and/or >young people - I wonder what technical terms we'd be using >now if IBM had been so persuaded back then :-} ? This is interesting. Have you had any personal conversations with people from Scandinavia to verify this? It is true, however, that Sweden and Denmark have more liberal rules than for instance Norway, where I live. In Norway the porn regulations states that it is forbidden to show any activity involving genitalia in *movement*. But I'm not sure if the majority of people in Scandinavia thinks porn is ok for children. I doubt this very strongly. And to take this discussion one more OT step, what about violence on TV? In the US (correct me if I'm wrong) the rules ar a lot more liberal towards violence than porn. I've heard that they're barely allowed to show a bare breast on TV, but it's ok to show a person getting shot with a machine gun at close range. Is this a better signal to send children? -Oyvind

{Quote hidden}>>I note that some PIClisters of Scandinavian origins think >>porn has been "proved" OK & non-damaging for children and/or >>young people - I wonder what technical terms we'd be using >>now if IBM had been so persuaded back then :-} ? > >This is interesting. Have you had any personal conversations >with people from Scandinavia to verify this? > >It is true, however, that Sweden and Denmark have more liberal rules >than for instance Norway, where I live. In Norway the porn regulations states >that it is forbidden to show any activity involving genitalia in *movement*. > >But I'm not sure if the majority of people in Scandinavia thinks porn is >ok for children. I doubt this very strongly. > >And to take this discussion one more OT step, what about violence on TV? > >In the US (correct me if I'm wrong) the rules ar a lot more liberal towards >violence than porn. I've heard that they're barely allowed to show a bare >breast on TV, but it's ok to show a person getting shot with a machine gun at >close range. > >Is this a better signal to send children? > >-Oyvind > Yes, the statement most above seem strange. I got the impression that both porn and violence are much worse in US. I think that the impression that Sweden is more liberal in sex is from the sixties when that was a fact, but now the US has passed us by far. (Why do they always exaggregate... :) ) /Morgan, Swede / Morgan Olsson, MORGANS REGLERTEKNIK, SE-277 35 KIVIK, Sweden \ \ spamBeGonemrtSTOPspamEraseMEiname.com, ph: +46 (0)414 70741; fax +46 (0)414 70331 /

>>As I recall, no doubt incorrectly as I also remember >>Sputnik, that IBM coined the term "hexadecimal" but that >>they originally intended to use "Sexadecimal" but the term >>was deemed unacceptable language for IBM. IBM introduced the term "hexadecimal" in 1964 as the documentation for the System/360 was being developed. Actually, IBM freely acknowledges that they did this because the term "sexadecimal" was something programmers at the time used to giggle about. But with the S/360, it was expected that more than just propeller heads would be using the system, so "hexadecimal" was created to avoid offending delicate sensibilities. myke "If people don't know what you're doing, they don't know what you're doing wrong." - Sir Humphrey Appleby K.C.B

Paul B. Webster VK2BZC <KILLspampaulbspamBeGonemidcoast.com.au> wrote: > Andrew Warren wrote: > > > Ever since then, most people have used the word "byte" specifically to > > mean an eight-bit quantity, and referred to the other sizes -- > > imprecisely -- as "words". > > Imprecisely? How so? .... "Word" sounds like a very good > description of a quantity from one to many characters, or bytes. Paul: When I said "imprecisely", that's exactly what I meant; if I'd meant "inaccurately", I would have said so. "Word" IS a good word for a group of bits, but it doesn't precisely define the size of that group. -Andy === Andrew Warren - EraseMEfastfwdEraseMEix.netcom.com === Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California === http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

I just wrote: > When I said "imprecisely", that's exactly what I meant; > if I'd meant "inaccurately", I would have said so. Reading over this, I see that it sounds a little argumentative. I didn't mean for it to sound that way; I guess I'm just tired. -Andy P.S. Paul Webster: I just tried to send the above message to you privately, but your ISP returned my message, saying: ... while talking to ecpport2.ecopost.com.au.: >>> MAIL From:<@spam@fastfwd@spam@spam_OUTix18.ix.netcom.com> SIZE=572 <<< 571 <spamBeGonefastfwdKILLspamix18.ix.netcom.com>... We don't accept junk mail from your domain 554 <.....paulbspam_OUTmidcoast.com.au>... Service unavailable If this bothers you, you might want to drop them a note suggesting that wholesale banning of entire legitimate domains is NOT a good way to fight spam. === Andrew Warren - TakeThisOuTfastfwd.....TakeThisOuTix.netcom.com === Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California === http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

Andrew Warren writes: > Hmm... If I'd been alive in the '50s, I'd be so old by now that > my memory wouldn't be trustworthy. Wow! That cuts to the bone. I do remember being in the first grade and hearing about Sputnik and wondering why all the adults were so upset about everything. Those were the care-free days of the mushroom cloud, the fallout shelter, and a vacuum-tube checker in every store. How many remember peanut tubes? These were the last gasp of the attempt to make smaller and smaller vacuum-tubes. They were about the size of a person's little finger and kind of flat like a peanut in it's shell. A few were about the diameter of a pencil and had a tiny circular pin base like the TO5 IC's of old. The peanut-shaped tubes had five pins in a straight line across the base. They were called instant-heat tubes because they started emitting electrons about half of a second after applying 1.3 volts to the filament. One needed 45 to 90 volts for the plate and this usually came from a heavy, expensive, and short-lived battery. I bet there were people planning to build computers out of those peanut tubes. Talk about having the worlds largest microprocessor.:-) I am glad I am young enough to appreciate what we have today and old enough to remember how it was. Martin McCormick

On Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:05:32 -0600, Martin McCormick wrote: >Andrew Warren writes: >> Hmm... If I'd been alive in the '50s, I'd be so old by now that >> my memory wouldn't be trustworthy. > > Wow! That cuts to the bone. I do remember being in the first >grade and hearing about Sputnik and wondering why all the adults were so >upset about everything. Those were the care-free days of the >mushroom cloud, the fallout shelter, and a vacuum-tube checker in every store. > Makes me glad I came about in the 60's. I am not sure I would feel safe with muchroom clouds and fallout shelters in every store! Tube testers, on the other hand, were quite a bit of fun.... <VBG> {Quote hidden}> How many remember peanut tubes? These were the last gasp of the >attempt to make smaller and smaller vacuum-tubes. They were about the size >of a person's little finger and kind of flat like a peanut in it's shell. >A few were about the diameter of a pencil and had a tiny circular pin base >like the TO5 IC's of old. The peanut-shaped tubes had five pins in a >straight line across the base. > > They were called instant-heat tubes because they started emitting >electrons about half of a second after applying 1.3 volts to the filament. >One needed 45 to 90 volts for the plate and this usually came from a heavy, >expensive, and short-lived battery. > I did see a few of those in surplus stores.. Ironically tubes may be coming back in the form of IC's, esp. cold cathode flat panel displays... > I bet there were people planning to build computers out of those >peanut tubes. Talk about having the worlds largest microprocessor.:-) I am not sure if the prefix "micro" would necessarily have been applied <G>.. > > I am glad I am young enough to appreciate what we have today and >old enough to remember how it was. > >Martin McCormick > No kidding.... My kids will likely never see a tube or even a black & white TV anywhere but in a museum. It will be fun telling my grand-kids about paper tape, teletypes, and hard drives the size of pizza's (or washing machines!)! <*sigh*> Dan

On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:07:53 -0800 Andrew Warren <TakeThisOuTfastfwdKILLspamspamIX.NETCOM.COM> writes: {Quote hidden}>William Chops Westfield <.....PICLISTRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote: > >> AFAIK, a "byte" did not have any inherent size prior to >> microcomputers and microprocessors (at which point it became 8 bits, >> since that was the native addressable size.) CDC bytes were 6 bits, >> IBM varied, and the DEC PDP10 had special "byte pointer" instuctions >> that could handle any byte size from 1 to 36 bits within its 36-bit >> words (word addressable machine.) > >Bill: > >That's true, more or less... The word "byte" was originally defined >as the amount used to represent one character; when the word was >first coined, a "byte" was a six-bit number. > >However... The 8-bit definition of "byte" predates microcomputers and >microprocessors by over a decade; the IBM System/360, designed in the >'50s, started to standardize a "byte" as eight bits. Ever since >then, most people have used the word "byte" specifically to mean an >eight-bit quantity, and referred to the other sizes -- imprecisely -- >as "words". > >-Andy > >=== Andrew Warren - RemoveMEfastfwdspamBeGoneix.netcom.com >=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California >=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499 > Andy, You are right. Byte started as BYTE after IBM/360 came into life. I want to go back to "bit". As far as I had been learnt it comes from English word bit what means smallest piece/amount of information which can not by divided or splitted any more. The origin of nibble is quite obscure. I think this is a pure modern programmer's jargon rarely being met in literature. Regards Blad Cap _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

At 11:05 PM 3/2/98 -0500, Blad Cap wrote: >I want to go back to "bit". As far as I had been learnt it comes from >English word bit what means smallest piece/amount of information which >can not by divided or splitted any more. I had always heard that it was short for Binary digIT. ^ ^^ >The origin of nibble is quite obscure. I think this is a pure modern >programmer's jargon rarely being met in literature. After byte was firmly entrenched as an 8-bit quantity, nybble was coined as "half a byte". - Rick "Back formation" Dickinson +---------------------------------+---------------------------+ | Enterprise ArchiTechs Company |"You can't reason someone | | Lotus Certified Notes | out of a position they | | Appl. Design & Administration | didn't reason themselves | |(818)563-1061 spamBeGonertd@spam@spam_OUTnotesguy.com | into" -- Rick Adams, | | http://www.eArchiTechs.com | in alt.folklore.urban | +---------------------------------+---------------------------+

Blad Cap <TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote: > I want to go back to "bit". As far as I had been learnt it comes > from English word bit what means smallest piece/amount of > information which can not by divided or splitted any more. > > The origin of nibble is quite obscure. I think this is a pure modern > programmer's jargon rarely being met in literature. Blad: On the contrary, "nibble" has the LEAST obscure origin of the three terms; it's just a back-formation from "byte". Here's a copy of the message I sent two weeks ago on the subject... Maybe you missed it? ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------ "Bit" is, indeed, a contraction of "binary digit". The earliest recorded usage was 1948 or '49, by John Tukey. The first usage of "byte" was in the mid-50's; it's generally agreed that Werner Buchholz coined the term while designing IBM's "Stretch" supercomputer. It's an alteration of the noun "bite", meaning "the amount of food taken at a bite"... The "y" was a deliberate safety feature to prevent the word from accidentally being misspelled "bit". "Nibble" is, obviously, a back-formation of "byte"; it's half a byte (4 bits, or one hexadecimal digit). Although it's often spelled "nybble" -- especially by non-programmers -- that spelling implies that it's pronounced "nigh-ble"; every programmer _I_ know spells it "nibble". ------- End of Forwarded Message ------ -Andy === Andrew Warren - fastfwdEraseMEix.netcom.com === Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California === http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

At 09:25 PM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote: >Blad Cap <RemoveMEPICLISTEraseMEspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote: >> The origin of nibble is quite obscure. I think this is a pure modern >> programmer's jargon rarely being met in literature. >Here's a copy of the message I sent two weeks ago on the subject... >Maybe you missed it? >"Nibble" is, obviously, a back-formation of "byte"; it's half a byte >(4 bits, or one hexadecimal digit). Although it's often spelled >"nybble" -- especially by non-programmers -- that spelling implies >that it's pronounced "nigh-ble"; every programmer _I_ know spells it >"nibble". I think the problem may be that non-english speakers may not know that a nibble is a very small bite. A mouse nibbles on cheese. Some ladies, when they want to be very dainty, will nibble on finger food. (Cookies, tarts, etc.) By the way, some of us do spell it nybble when discussing a half byte value. (A hex digit or part of a BCD byte.) I won't even go into the subject of the phonetics of the "so-called" english language. (How can you mix half a dozen languages together and call the result a language????) I will mention that we should be thankful that nybble does not rhyme with orange! ;-) (For non-native english speakers, the inside joke is that the word "rhyme" is pronounced as if it were spelled rime. Rime really is a word in the english language, and is an alternate spelling of rhyme, but it also means a coating of frost, and is most commonly used in this sense.)

Right, a bit is the smallest amount of information, that contains a true/false value, in general something that can have only 2 values, thus is binary of nature. As far as I know the bit was invented by Shannon (1948: A Mathemathical Theory Of Communication) (the last word might as well be 'Information') as Shannon was the founder of wat is called Information Theory. In this book the BIT is introduced as the 'binary unit' of information. Blad Cap wrote: {Quote hidden}> On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:07:53 -0800 Andrew Warren <@spam@fastfwdRemoveMEEraseMEIX.NETCOM.COM> > writes: > >William Chops Westfield <EraseMEPICLIST@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote: > > > >> AFAIK, a "byte" did not have any inherent size prior to > >> microcomputers and microprocessors (at which point it became 8 bits, > >> since that was the native addressable size.) CDC bytes were 6 bits, > >> IBM varied, and the DEC PDP10 had special "byte pointer" instuctions > >> that could handle any byte size from 1 to 36 bits within its 36-bit > >> words (word addressable machine.) > > > >Bill: > > > >That's true, more or less... The word "byte" was originally defined > >as the amount used to represent one character; when the word was > >first coined, a "byte" was a six-bit number. > > > >However... The 8-bit definition of "byte" predates microcomputers and > >microprocessors by over a decade; the IBM System/360, designed in the > >'50s, started to standardize a "byte" as eight bits. Ever since > >then, most people have used the word "byte" specifically to mean an > >eight-bit quantity, and referred to the other sizes -- imprecisely -- > >as "words". > > > >-Andy > > > >=== Andrew Warren - @spam@fastfwdspam_OUT.....ix.netcom.com > >=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California > >=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499 > > > Andy, > You are right. Byte started as BYTE after IBM/360 came into life. > > I want to go back to "bit". As far as I had been learnt it comes from > English word bit what means smallest piece/amount of information which > can not by divided or splitted any more. > > The origin of nibble is quite obscure. I think this is a pure modern > programmer's jargon rarely being met in literature. > > Regards > Blad Cap > > _____________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] -- Regards, ------------------------------------------------------------------ Wim E. van Bemmel No Unsollicited Commercial spamBeGonebemspanEraseMExs4all.nl Life is about Interfacing .... ------------------------------------------------------------------

If you find it interesting, the military uses 12-bits for a byte. ---------- > From: Wim E. van Bemmel <bemspanspamBeGoneXS4ALL.NL> > To: RemoveMEPICLIST@spam@spamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [0t]bit,byte,nibble > Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 12:22 PM > > Right, > > a bit is the smallest amount of information, that contains a true/false value, > > in general something that can have only 2 values, thus is binary of nature. {Quote hidden}> As far as I know the bit was invented by Shannon (1948: A Mathemathical > Theory Of Communication) (the last word might as well be 'Information') > as Shannon was the founder of wat is called Information Theory. In this > book the BIT is introduced as the 'binary unit' of information. > > Blad Cap wrote: > > > On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:07:53 -0800 Andrew Warren <.....fastfwd@spam@EraseMEIX.NETCOM.COM> > > writes: > > >William Chops Westfield <.....PICLISTRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote: > > > > > >> AFAIK, a "byte" did not have any inherent size prior to > > >> microcomputers and microprocessors (at which point it became 8 bits, > > >> since that was the native addressable size.) CDC bytes were 6 bits, > > >> IBM varied, and the DEC PDP10 had special "byte pointer" instuctions > > >> that could handle any byte size from 1 to 36 bits within its 36-bit > > >> words (word addressable machine.) > > > > > >Bill: > > > > > >That's true, more or less... The word "byte" was originally defined > > >as the amount used to represent one character; when the word was > > >first coined, a "byte" was a six-bit number. > > > > > >However... The 8-bit definition of "byte" predates microcomputers and > > >microprocessors by over a decade; the IBM System/360, designed in the > > >'50s, started to standardize a "byte" as eight bits. Ever since > > >then, most people have used the word "byte" specifically to mean an > > >eight-bit quantity, and referred to the other sizes -- imprecisely -- > > >as "words". > > > > > >-Andy > > > > > >=== Andrew Warren - .....fastfwdSTOPspam@spam@ix.netcom.com > > >=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California > > >=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499 > > > > > Andy, > > You are right. Byte started as BYTE after IBM/360 came into life. > > > > I want to go back to "bit". As far as I had been learnt it comes from > > English word bit what means smallest piece/amount of information which > > can not by divided or splitted any more. > > > > The origin of nibble is quite obscure. I think this is a pure modern > > programmer's jargon rarely being met in literature. > > > > Regards > > Blad Cap > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > -- > Regards, > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Wim E. van Bemmel > No Unsollicited Commercial bemspanEraseME@spam@xs4all.nl > Life is about Interfacing .... > ------------------------------------------------------------------

If you find it interesting, the military uses 12-bits for a byte. ---------- > From: Wim E. van Bemmel <RemoveMEbemspanspamBeGoneXS4ALL.NL> > To: spamBeGonePICLISTKILLspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [0t]bit,byte,nibble > Date: Monday, April 27, 1998 12:22 PM > > Right, > > a bit is the smallest amount of information, that contains a true/false value, > > in general something that can have only 2 values, thus is binary of nature. {Quote hidden}> As far as I know the bit was invented by Shannon (1948: A Mathemathical > Theory Of Communication) (the last word might as well be 'Information') > as Shannon was the founder of wat is called Information Theory. In this > book the BIT is introduced as the 'binary unit' of information. > > Blad Cap wrote: > > > On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 03:07:53 -0800 Andrew Warren <fastfwdspam_OUT@spam@IX.NETCOM.COM> > > writes: > > >William Chops Westfield <spamBeGonePICLIST@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote: > > > > > >> AFAIK, a "byte" did not have any inherent size prior to > > >> microcomputers and microprocessors (at which point it became 8 bits, > > >> since that was the native addressable size.) CDC bytes were 6 bits, > > >> IBM varied, and the DEC PDP10 had special "byte pointer" instuctions > > >> that could handle any byte size from 1 to 36 bits within its 36-bit > > >> words (word addressable machine.) > > > > > >Bill: > > > > > >That's true, more or less... The word "byte" was originally defined > > >as the amount used to represent one character; when the word was > > >first coined, a "byte" was a six-bit number. > > > > > >However... The 8-bit definition of "byte" predates microcomputers and > > >microprocessors by over a decade; the IBM System/360, designed in the > > >'50s, started to standardize a "byte" as eight bits. Ever since > > >then, most people have used the word "byte" specifically to mean an > > >eight-bit quantity, and referred to the other sizes -- imprecisely -- > > >as "words". > > > > > >-Andy > > > > > >=== Andrew Warren - RemoveMEfastfwdEraseMEKILLspamix.netcom.com > > >=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California > > >=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499 > > > > > Andy, > > You are right. Byte started as BYTE after IBM/360 came into life. > > > > I want to go back to "bit". As far as I had been learnt it comes from > > English word bit what means smallest piece/amount of information which > > can not by divided or splitted any more. > > > > The origin of nibble is quite obscure. I think this is a pure modern > > programmer's jargon rarely being met in literature. > > > > Regards > > Blad Cap > > > > _____________________________________________________________________ > > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com > > Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > > > -- > Regards, > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > Wim E. van Bemmel > No Unsollicited Commercial spamBeGonebemspanspam_OUTRemoveMExs4all.nl > Life is about Interfacing .... > ------------------------------------------------------------------

You Are correct Andy. The older systems, and, believe it or not some of them are still in use, utilize the 12-bit byte. But of course you are correct that they are the older systems. Another interesting thing about the older systems is that some of them were serial rather than parallel bus architectures. There has been a lot of change. I am happy to see it. ---------- > From: Andy Kunz <.....mtdesignRemoveMEFAST.NET> > To: PICLIST@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [0t]bit,byte,nibble > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 12:12 PM > > At 06:49 AM 10/27/97 -0500, you wrote: > >If you find it interesting, the military uses 12-bits for a byte. > > It depends on the processor, I'll bet. On the old 16-bit UYK's I worked on > (Navy fire-control system) they were 8-bits to a byte, 16-bits to a word. > > Andy > > ================================================================== > Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA > ==================================================================

You Are correct Andy. The older systems, and, believe it or not some of them are still in use, utilize the 12-bit byte. But of course you are correct that they are the older systems. Another interesting thing about the older systems is that some of them were serial rather than parallel bus architectures. There has been a lot of change. I am happy to see it. ---------- > From: Andy Kunz <EraseMEmtdesignRemoveMESTOPspamFAST.NET> > To: RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [0t]bit,byte,nibble > Date: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 12:12 PM > > At 06:49 AM 10/27/97 -0500, you wrote: > >If you find it interesting, the military uses 12-bits for a byte. > > It depends on the processor, I'll bet. On the old 16-bit UYK's I worked on > (Navy fire-control system) they were 8-bits to a byte, 16-bits to a word. > > Andy > > ================================================================== > Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA > ==================================================================

Andy, I remember an ASN24 computer that was used for navigation on the C-141 Starlifter ("Freedom Bird" to those of us in the 'Nam war...). It was 12 Bits with a rotating drum memory, doppler and star tracker inputs. PSBS: I hope Air Force kicks Navy's `stern' this year ;-) - Tom At 01:12 PM 4/28/98 -0400, you wrote: {Quote hidden}>At 06:49 AM 10/27/97 -0500, you wrote: >>If you find it interesting, the military uses 12-bits for a byte. > >It depends on the processor, I'll bet. On the old 16-bit UYK's I worked on >(Navy fire-control system) they were 8-bits to a byte, 16-bits to a word. > >Andy > >================================================================== >Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA >================================================================== > >