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'(OT) Serial Numbers'
1998\08\25@173722 by Steven Mercure

picon face
The company I work for presently serializes our circuit cards.  We use
stickers to affix a unique serial number to the card.

Unfortunately the labels are easily removed.

Is there a product out there which will allow me to easily and cheaply
serialize my boards.

Possibly epoxy ink, etching, burning???.

The solution has to hold up to wave soldering, washing, cleaning chemicals,
and customers prying fingers.

ex.  00012, 00013, 00014

1998\08\25@180409 by Brian Boles

picon face
    How about the 16 byte serial EE in the SOT-23 package that Microchip
    sells.  Very cheap and easy to program during final test!

    Rgds, Brian.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: (OT) Serial Numbers
Author:  spam_OUTsmercTakeThisOuTspamEARTHLINK.NET (Steven Mercure) at Internet_Exchange
Date:    8/25/98 2:26 PM


The company I work for presently serializes our circuit cards.  We use
stickers to affix a unique serial number to the card.

Unfortunately the labels are easily removed.

Is there a product out there which will allow me to easily and cheaply
serialize my boards.

Possibly epoxy ink, etching, burning???.

The solution has to hold up to wave soldering, washing, cleaning chemicals,
and customers prying fingers.

ex.  00012, 00013, 00014
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{Quote hidden}

------------------------- End of message header.

1998\08\26@010646 by Hans Blichfeldt

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At 02:41 PM 25/08/1998 -0700, you wrote:
>     How about the 16 byte serial EE in the SOT-23 package that Microchip
>     sells.  Very cheap and easy to program during final test!
>
>     Rgds, Brian.
>
>
>______________________________ Reply Separator
_________________________________
>Subject: (OT) Serial Numbers
>Author:  EraseMEsmercspamEARTHLINK.NET (Steven Mercure) at Internet_Exchange
>Date:    8/25/98 2:26 PM
>
> --cut ---

Could you please give a device number for those serial EE's ??

Best regards,


Hans
--
Temperature Technology
263 Gilbert Street
ADELAIDE  SA  5000

web page:       http://dove.net.au/~ttec
email:          RemoveMEttecEraseMEspamEraseMEdove.net.au

--

1998\08\26@064427 by John Sanderson

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face
Hello Steven & PIC.ers,

I use a mains-powered `vibratory scriber' (for want of a better term)
to do just this.
If you dedicate an area of unetched, tinned copper on the solder side
of the board, you can have an incorruptible visible ID buzzed onto it
there. You can even scribe directly onto the f/glass laminate, but
its not so easy to read.
These things used to be cheap and very available in ornery hardware
stores, but I can't say I've seen one on sale for quite a while.
..
Best regards,   John

{Quote hidden}

..
email from John Sanderson at
JS Controls, PO Box 1887, Boksburg 1460, Rep. South Africa
Manufacturer & purveyor of laboratory force testing apparatus
and related products and services.
Tel/fax: Johannesburg 893 4154    Cellphone 082 453 4815

1998\08\26@083557 by paulb

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face
Steven Mercure wrote:

> Is there a product out there which will allow me to easily and cheaply
> serialize my boards.

 Boards rather than chips.  Well, it depends on how much you value
labour.  Standard manual method is to use metal punches to stamp the
number into the board.  About 30 seconds per board, requires skill,
hammer and *good flat* anvil, before board assembly.

 Will binary do?  If you want it automated, one method is to print
an area with small "tokens" which have two contact pads either end.  The
PCB passes (stepper drive) under a "print head" with two robust
contacts, selectively burning out the "tokens".
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1998\08\26@103020 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
> boards

imho, if they use silk screen, the only thing you can do is serialize the
chips. Depending on the production run size, you can hire people to do
that or rent/buy a machine. I have never used a machine but they exist.
They print a number on the chip with some acid ink.

Peter

1998\08\26@143026 by Pete Klammer

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face
Would you consider attaching an RFID tag to the board?  The read-only
kind, like the pet-recovery modules that the American Kennel Club
endorses, could be glued or embedded in a little (grain of wheat size)
cavity in your board.  Our company makes read/write modules (as for
smartcards, etc.), which would allow you to record work-in-progress
assembly and test history, which the board then carries with it wherever
it goes (and comes back?).  Either kind would operate independently of
whatever circuits or components the board possessed.

Peter F. Klammer / RemoveMEPKlammerTakeThisOuTspamspamRacom.com
Racom Systems, Inc. / 6080 Greenwood Plaza Blvd / Englewood CO 80111
(303)773-7411 / FAX:(303)771-4708


{Original Message removed}

1998\08\26@145934 by Martin McCormick

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face
       Maybe somebody already suggested this, but what about an ink
stamp that puts the serial number on the board in resist ink or
exposes an area to light as in contact imaging so that when the board
is etched, the printing is left in copper.  Since it is designed to be
read by humans, it wouldn't matter if it was copper over the board
material or the opposite which would be letter-shaped holes in the
copper.

1998\08\26@180803 by Steven Mercure

picon face
We do presently scribe a tracking number into circuit cards returned for
repair.  This is moderately un-labor intensive because most customers only
send one board back at a time.

Our production runs are about 1 to 100 circuit cards at a time.  Scribing
100 cards is a pain in the ass.

We asked our board house (Beaver Brook Circuits) if they could serialize the
cards during the silkscreen process but they said they were not equipped for
it.

We borrowed a numerical stamp (not a Basic Stamp :-) , which automatically
increments after every use.  But the ink does not dry on fiberglass.


Lost in Vermont!


{Original Message removed}

1998\08\26@182631 by Michael Gresham

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face
I posted this a few days ago, but I think the server ate it.
Here goes one more try:


Have you considered the Dallas DS2401 ( http://www.dalsemi.com/DocControl/PDFs/2
401.pdf ) ?

I recently used it to provide a "MAC" address for each of the nodes on a multidr
op RS-485 network.
It saved me the effort of trying to serialize the programed PICs.  Each device c
ontains a 48 bit unique ROM serial number.  They are prices at about $1.50 in sm
all quantities.  Another nice thing about these is that they only require one bi
-directional I/O pin to access.

Dallas also includes the serial number in each of their 1-wire devices. If you a
re using one of their 1-wire thermo. sensors, you already have you serial number
.

If you device communicates with the world via a display or serial link, why not
hold down a button or the like during power on to place the unit in a diagnostic
mode where the serial number and any other parameters could be accessed?


-mgresham


At 01:56 PM 8/26/98 -0500, you wrote:
>        Maybe somebody already suggested this, but what about an ink
>stamp that puts the serial number on the board in resist ink or
>exposes an area to light as in contact imaging so that when the board
>is etched, the printing is left in copper.  Since it is designed to be
>read by humans, it wouldn't matter if it was copper over the board
>material or the opposite which would be letter-shaped holes in the
>copper.
>
Michael Gresham, KE4SWX
EraseMEmgreshamspamspamspamBeGonespsu.edu

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Don't forget to tip the boatman."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1998\08\26@182848 by Calvin

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face
If you have money to spare, you can use one of those laser-marking systems.

Calvin

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Mercure <RemoveMEsmercKILLspamspamEARTHLINK.NET>
To: PICLISTSTOPspamspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU <spamBeGonePICLISTSTOPspamspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: MiŽrcoles 26 de Agosto de 1998 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: (OT) Serial Numbers


>We do presently scribe a tracking number into circuit cards returned for
>repair.  This is moderately un-labor intensive because most customers only
>send one board back at a time.
>
>Our production runs are about 1 to 100 circuit cards at a time.  Scribing
>100 cards is a pain in the ass.
>
>We asked our board house (Beaver Brook Circuits) if they could serialize
the
>cards during the silkscreen process but they said they were not equipped
for
{Quote hidden}

1998\08\26@204519 by Steven Mercure

picon face
Money to spare, oh, my sides are hurting from laughing.


Sounds interesting, any idea where to find info on such a system.  Web pages
or catalogs?

Sounds like a neat project for a PIC.


{Original Message removed}

1998\08\26@211858 by Dennis Plunkett

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face
At 07:16 PM 26/08/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Money to spare, oh, my sides are hurting from laughing.
>
>
>Sounds interesting, any idea where to find info on such a system.  Web pages
>or catalogs?
>
>Sounds like a neat project for a PIC.
>
>
>{Original Message removed}

1998\08\27@020158 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
One thought.  Do what most major manufacturers do;  Stick a small,
often dot-matrix printed, serial number sticker onto the board.  Putting
a second copy of this under a DIP socket or some such can make it sorta
hard to replace the serial number covertly, if that's a problem.

 Stick a permanent paper sticker onto the fiberglass & stamp that?

 (I'm lucky, wire-wrapped prototypes are easy to serial number <G>)

 Mark, .....mwillisspam_OUTspamnwlink.com

Steven Mercure wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1998\08\27@111139 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
I don't know about lasers but there is ink-jet printing equipment used to
mark products on a conveyor belt. I have encountered these in small
factories here (food industry / canning). This is what puts the numbers on
food cans, yoghurt etc.

I can find out who sells them but me not being lost in Vermont, it's
better to look locally. I know that the ink does not come off with
anything and is food-grade. Which makes me wonder what it's made of.

Maybe you can talk your PCB maker into buying one, the initial investment
being relatively high (but less than $10k if I'm not wrong). The thing
works forever as far as I know (non-contact operation...), you supply ink
cartridges and power, and move the products in front of it.

OTOH, I have used a rubber stamp to stamp numbers into glass boards, and
come to the conclusion that the board must be roughened locally with emory
paper before doing this. Then, the ink stays on and is very hard to remove
completely. The rubber stamp was of the kind used to stamp product prices
in shops (Trodat ?). The ink proved to be un-removable if it was applied
before the last drying bake (after final fluxing - the boards had no
solder mask).

hope this helps,

Peter

1998\08\28@030340 by Mike Keitz

picon face
On Thu, 27 Aug 1998 17:27:13 +0000 "Peter L. Peres" <TakeThisOuTplp.....spamTakeThisOuTACTCOM.CO.IL>
writes:
>I don't know about lasers but there is ink-jet printing equipment used
>to
>mark products on a conveyor belt. I have encountered these in small
>factories here (food industry / canning). This is what puts the
>numbers on
>food cans, yoghurt etc.
>
>I can find out who sells them but me not being lost in Vermont, it's
>better to look locally. I know that the ink does not come off with
>anything and is food-grade. Which makes me wonder what it's made of.

Just about every can or bottle has a number on it from one of those
printers these days.  The ink comes of readily with isopropyl (rubbing)
alcohol and possibly other alcohols as well (Do they label liquor bottles
with it?).  It is likely the same ink that is used in office type ink-jet
printers.

The machine must not be too expensive but it would only make sense for
many thouseands of units.  For a few hundred boards, destructible paper
labels seem like a good choice, though they would have to be applied
after the board was completed.  You could spray clear lacquer over them
for more durability, though durability is not what you want to discourage
tampering.


_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

1998\08\28@133804 by Calvin

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face
Try http://www.lumonics.com.

Calvin

-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Mercure <TakeThisOuTsmercKILLspamspamspamEARTHLINK.NET>
To: .....PICLISTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU <RemoveMEPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: MiŽrcoles 26 de Agosto de 1998 7:34 PM
Subject: Re: (OT) Serial Numbers


>Money to spare, oh, my sides are hurting from laughing.
>
>
>Sounds interesting, any idea where to find info on such a system.  Web
pages
{Quote hidden}

systems.
{Quote hidden}

only
{Quote hidden}

automatically
{Quote hidden}

1998\08\29@081352 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
 Thinking some more, I remember some boards made in Eastern Europe some
time ago that were marked with serial numbers and version number on the
edge, by nipping a tiny bit of board off. The silk screen of the
solder-stop mask printed a comb-like pattern on the edge, with numbers and
letters, and the nip was in front of the resp. letter for each group. This
is tamper-proof. Nips seemed to be cut out in a vee-pattern about 1x1 mm
each out of the phenolic board. With 100 boards that would be 3 decimal
numbers to nip at per, or 300 nips ;) Not so hard, it only takes one pass
with a needle file to make a nip, that would be 5 seconds per board, all
done in 10 minutes !

hope this helps,

Peter

PS: New project idea for my long-term digestion pipeline: Build a simple
CNC machine that can nip-mark passing boards with a 30 mm rotating
abrasive disk actuated by a solenoid and DC motor, based on a quadrature
encoder wheel and an opto sensor to detect board start and x-coordinate.
PIC-based of course with RS232 interface ;)

1998\08\31@121353 by John Payson

flavicon
face
[[quote]]
Just about every can or bottle has a number on it from one of those
printers these days.  The ink comes of readily with isopropyl (rubbing)
alcohol and possibly other alcohols as well (Do they label liquor bottles
with it?).  It is likely the same ink that is used in office type ink-jet
printers.

The machine must not be too expensive but it would only make sense for
many thouseands of units.  For a few hundred boards, destructible paper
labels seem like a good choice, though they would have to be applied
after the board was completed.  You could spray clear lacquer over them
for more durability, though durability is not what you want to discourage
tampering.

[[me]]
The printers used for applying the ink-jet serial numbers are quite
expensive, because they need to be able to run at AMAZING speeds.  From
what I've been told, some of them spray electrically-charged ink drops
from a moderate height and then use electrostatic deflection to steer the
drops onto the right parts of the objects flying through.  If you only
have to label a few thousands of units, this sort of technology doesn't
make sense--even spending 3.6 seconds/unit would only take one hour per
thousand.  On the other hand, if you're producing a thousand cans of Coke
per minute, conventional printing methods are totally unsuitable.

1998\08\31@125105 by David W. Duley

picon face
In a message dated 8/31/98 9:14:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
.....supercat@spam@spamEraseMECIRCAD.COM writes:

<<
[[me]]
The printers used for applying the ink-jet serial numbers are quite
expensive, because they need to be able to run at AMAZING speeds.  From
what I've been told, some of them spray electrically-charged ink drops
from a moderate height and then use electrostatic deflection to steer the
drops onto the right parts of the objects flying through.  If you only
have to label a few thousands of units, this sort of technology doesn't
make sense--even spending 3.6 seconds/unit would only take one hour per
thousand.  On the other hand, if you're producing a thousand cans of Coke
per minute, conventional printing methods are totally unsuitable.
 >>
OK My 2 cents worth,

I saw in a catalog the other day a preinter that is desiged to print directly
on CDs.  It looked exactly like an ordinary desktop inkjet except it had a
flat bed.  I looked like it would take 4 or 5 CDs at a time.  I suppose
somthing like that could be modified to accept circuit boards instead.  It was
$1295.
I saw this in a catalog from Publishing Perfection 414-252-5000
http://www.publishingperfection.com.  Model AFX112 for PC and AFX113 for mac.  You
would have to serialize the PCB before it was stuffed.  The Printer will
accept anything up to .08 inch thick.

Hope this helps.

Dave Duley


'(OT) Serial Numbers'
1998\09\01@222124 by Larry G. Nelson Sr.
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face
Try laser marking. Some ski manufacturers use this process.

At 05:26 PM 8/25/98 -0400, you wrote:
>The company I work for presently serializes our circuit cards.  We use
>stickers to affix a unique serial number to the card.
>
>Unfortunately the labels are easily removed.
>
>Is there a product out there which will allow me to easily and cheaply
>serialize my boards.
>
>Possibly epoxy ink, etching, burning???.
>
>The solution has to hold up to wave soldering, washing, cleaning chemicals,
>and customers prying fingers.
>
>ex.  00012, 00013, 00014
>
>
Larry G. Nelson Sr.
.....L.NelsonRemoveMEspamieee.org
http://www.ultranet.com/~nr

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