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PICList Thread
'experimental pic list (5/9/94) '
1994\05\09@122329 by jory

face picon face
A few months back, I solicited interest in an email list covering pic
(uchip) microcontrollers. A fair number of people responded positively.

After much slothage, I finally got something set up: spam_OUTpicTakeThisOuTspamfigment.mit.edu

A few things:

1. This list could go away at any time.

2. For the time being, please send list addition/removal requests to the
list iteself. Within the week, there should be a separate address to deal
with administrative issues.

3. It may take a few days to get added-to/removed-from the list. Your
patience is appreciated.

4. Please don't widely publicize the list until the
administration/operational details are finalized later this week.


-jory bell



'stamp mailing list '
1994\05\11@142210 by jory

face picon face
Someone emailed me and pointed out that my previous post neglected to
include the subscription address to the other mailing list (STAMP/PIC):

.....stamp-requestKILLspamspam@spam@discus.mil.wi.us

-jory




'list duties '
1994\06\29@225409 by jory
face picon face
i will be driving to california from boston during the coming week. during
this time list maintainence duties may lag depending on my ability to gain
net access while on the road.

soooo: if you send an unsubscribe, or someone not on the list tries to
subscribe, it could be up to a week before that request is processed.

a reminder: all administrative mail (including unsubscribes) should be sent
to pic-requestspamKILLspamfigment.mit.edu (not to the list itself)

thank you
jory


addendum1: hopefully we will offer the pic list in digest form in the near
future.

addendum2: as of today there are over 250 people subscribed to the pic list.




'More pic list.'
1994\07\26@084848 by Derrick Early
flavicon
picon face
Hi Jory,

Is it normal for me to receive so many returned messages?
Here is some more.  

  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
451 <.....mrandeKILLspamspam.....elaine.ee.und.ac.za>... reply: read error
451 <EraseMEmrandespam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTelaine.ee.und.ac.za>... reply: read error
550 <michael.blylerspamspam_OUTgtri.gatech.ed>... Host unknown
421 jegnixa.hsc.missouri.edu.tcp... Deferred: Host is unreachable
550 <@spam@wcnKILLspamspamwcnux.cca.rockwell.com.cca.rockwell.com>... Host unknown
>>> QUIT
<<< 421 Too many SMTP sessions for this host
451 <KILLspamjohnrKILLspamspamsydney.dialix.oz.au>... reply: read error
451 <RemoveMEjohnrTakeThisOuTspamsydney.dialix.oz.au>... reply: read error
421 igate1.hac.com.tcp... Deferred: Connection timed out during user open with igate1.hac.com

  ----- Unsent message follows -----
  ----- Transcript of session follows -----

While connected to hpuerci.atl.hp.com [15.17.184.24] (tcp):
>>> RCPT To:<robot4u!spamBeGonejgutmannspamBeGonespamhpuerci.atl.hp.com>
<<< 554 <robot4u!TakeThisOuTjgutmannEraseMEspamspam_OUThpuerci.atl.hp.com>... unable to route to UUCP host name robot4u
554 <robot4u!RemoveMEjgutmannspamTakeThisOuThpuerci.atl.hp.com>... Service unavailable


  ----- Unsent message follows -----
 
Yours,

Derrick


'mailing list request'
1994\08\01@073856 by Noel P. Hart
flavicon
face
On Sun, 31 Jul 94 17:03:51 EDT you said:
>I am trying to establish/sponsor a mailing list.
>The list would cover the PIC series of microcontrollers.
>The list would have both mit and non-mit recipients.
>The requested name of the list would be:
>         picEraseMEspam.....wherever.mit.edu.
>Thank you for your asistance.
>jory bell

Please send mail to EraseMElistservspammitvma.mit.edu with the following
two listserv commands as text...
HELP
GET LIST HEADER

/Noel

'File: "LIST HEADER"'
1994\08\01@131017 by server at MITVMA (1.7f)

flavicon
face
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
 MIT Information Systems (Operations & Systems) will host a LISTSERV
 electronic mail-distribution list on MITVMA.MIT.EDU if it pertains
 to MIT business, or at least is sponsored by a member of the MIT
 community, even if its subscribers are mostly elsewhere.  A request
 to establish a list must be sent to Postmaster from a member of the
 MIT community who will accept responsibility for the list, and can
 speak for the group whenever questions arise regarding either
 mechanics or usage.
 If the load on the system from lists not pertaining to MIT business
 becomes a problem, we may have to re-evaluate hosting of such lists.
 If the list appears to be abandoned (i.e., the owner cannot be
 reached via the registered address), the list will be deleted.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
   +---------------------------------------------------------------+
   | This file is to help you in creating a List of your own       |
   | on the LISTSERV at MITVMA.                                    |
   | LISTSERV cannot create a list automatically. The LISTSERV     |
   | maintainer must initally create the list for you. However,    |
   | after creation, maintenance of the list is the responsibility |
   | of the owner or owners.                                       |
   +---------------------------------------------------------------+

Below, you will find a sample  LISTSERV  List Header.  Each line of the list
header begins with an asterisk (*).  Complete  the information requested and
send it (only the header please, and a cover letter, if you wish) via e-mail
to RemoveMEPOSTMASTEREraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU.
Upon receipt of the  list header,  the LISTSERV maintainer will contact you.

*After* your list has been created, you should ask LISTSERV for additional
information by sending the following commands to RemoveMELISTSERVspam_OUTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
  info listownr
  info refcard

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Communicating with LISTSERV is done in one of two ways, interactively or via
e-mail.
If e-mail is used, send the LISTSERV commands to RemoveMELISTSERVTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
The commands should be places in the text part of the mail.

  From a CMS account use the 'tell' command, or e-mail.
  From a VMS account use the 'send' command, or e-mail.
  From the MITnet or Internet use e-mail.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Please  fill  in  the ListName,  ListTitle  and  Owner  fields and make your
changes (as necessary) to any of the other keyword parameters.
A description  of  list header keywords  can be found  following this sample
list header.

* What is the name of this list ?
* From 4 to 8 characters from the following set: A-Z 0-9 $#+-_
*  ListName=  XXXXXXXX
*    Example---> SAMPLE-L
*
* What is the title of this list ?
*  ListTitle=  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
*    Example-->  A Sample Discussion List
*
* What is the e-mail address of the owner of this list ?
*  (There can be more than one owner, just dup the line)
*  Owner=  EraseMEXXXXXXspamspamspamBeGoneXXXX.XXXXXX.XXXX.XXX.XX     (Xxxx X Xxxxxx)
*    Example--> Owner=  RemoveMENHARTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU     (Noel P Hart)
*
* Review= Public
* Subscription= Open
* Send= Public
* Notify= yes
* Reply-To= List,Respect
* Files= No
* Ack= No
* Validate= Store Only
* Renewal= Yearly
* Confidential= Service
* Service= Local
* Notebook= Yes,G,Monthly,Public
* Stats= None
* Errors-To= Owners
*


  ***********  A description of list header keywords  *************

 The following is a description of the list control keywords that appear
in the header of each list.  Whenever default values are supplied for the
keywords, they  are listed  first in the  description. Words  enclosed in
parenthesis are "(generic  parameters)" which define  a  set of  possible
values for a keyword operand.
A desctiption of  'Generic Parameters'  such as net-address, access-level
etc. can be found following 'List control keywords'.

List control keywords
---------------------

***********************
* Ack= Yes | Msg | No *
***********************
   Defines the default value of  the "ACK/NOACK" distribution option for
 the corresponding  list, ie the value  assigned to new users  when they
 subscribe to the list. This value  can be altered by subscribers ("SET"
 command), but  not by  users who are  not signed on  to the  list. This
 means that this option will always  be in effect when distributing mail
 from people who are not on the distribution list.

 Yes         Messages will be sent when  your mail file is being proces-
             sed. Additionally, a  short acknowledgment with statistical
             information on  the mailing  will be sent  back to  you, in
             case a link failure prevented  you from receiving the messa
             ges. This is the default.

 Msg         Messages will be sent when  your mail file is being proces-
             sed.  Statistical information  will be  sent via  messages,
             but no acknowledgment mail will be sent.

 No          A single message, but no acknowledgment mail nor statistics
             will be sent when your mail file is being processed.

************************************
* Confidential= No | Yes | Service *
************************************
   Indicates whether the list should be hidden from users or not. A con-
 fidential list  will not appear on  the "List" command output.  "No" is
 the  default value  and indicates  that the  list is  not confidential.
 "Service" indicates  that the list is  to be hidden from  users who are
 not in  the list's service area  (see "Service=" keyword) but  not from
 other users. "Yes" means that the list is unconditionally confidential.

*********************************************
* Editor= (net-address1),(net-address2),... *
*********************************************
   Defines the list editor(s). When  used in conjunction with the "Send=
 Editor" option, it causes all mail sent to the list to be automatically
 forwarded to the first person listed in the "Editor=" keyword, who will
 then send it  back to the list  at his discretion. The  editors are the
 only persons (with the list owners) who are allowed to mail directly to
 the list. Note that ANY editor can send mail to the list while only the
 FIRST one will receive copies of mail sent to the list.

   The  file  will  be forwarded  to the  editor 'as is',  without being
 included in a mail envelope. This method makes sure  that the  original
 "Resent-" tags (if any) and "To:" keyword are preserved. BITNET editors
 will receive the forwarded mailfile  in their mailbox in Netdata format
 (or whatever is  the default format for their  operating system), while
 non-BITNET editors  will receive  it via their  mailing system  with an
 extra mail envelope being generated to enclose the original (unaltered)
 mailfile.

 IMPORTANT NOTE: The  editor MUST be a human person,  not a file server,
 list server,  mailer, or  suchlike. Specifying  a program's  mailbox as
 "Editor=" could result in a mailing loop.

************************************************
* Errors-To= (mon-address1),(mon-address2),... *
************************************************
   Defines the person  or list of persons that are  to receive rejection
 mail for the list. The default  value is 'Postmaster', and it is recom-
 mended that the owners change  it to 'Owners' or 'Owners,Postmaster' as
 soon as they become familiar with Revised LISTSERV.

*******************
* Files= Yes | No *
*******************
   Indicates whether files  can be sent to the list  or not. The default
 value is "Yes".

***********************
* Formcheck= No | Yes *
***********************
   Indicates whether files  to be redistributed to the list  must have a
 FORM of REDIST  to be accepted or  not. The default value  is "No", but
 can be changed to  "Yes" if for some reason it  is suspected that files
 can be accidentally sent to the  list userid without being intended for
 redistribution. Note that on some systems  the FORM field is imposed by
 the networking software and cannot be changed by the user.

*******************
* Language= idiom *
*******************
   Defines the language in which information mail and messages are to be
 sent to subscribers of the list.  The postmaster must have provided the
 required data  file to the server,  of course. The default  language is
 "English".
 Currently only  information mail is  available in several  languages. A
 further  release might  incorporate  customized messages  by using  the
 :country  tag in  BITEARN  NODES to  determine the  idiom  to be  used.

**************************
* Local= node1,node2,... *
**************************
   Defines the  nodes which are  to be  considered as 'local  nodes' for
 both service area checking and mail  header grouping. The local node is
 automatically considered as a 'local node'  and does not have to appear
 in  the list.  Subscribers from  any of  the local  nodes will  receive
 separate pieces of  mail with a single recipient in  the "To:" field --
 in other  words, they  will never  receive a grouped  piece of  mail as
 non-local  recipients would  if there  are more  than one  recipient in
 their node.  Note that 'node'  is a  generic term that  means "anything
 after the  '@' sign  in the network  address". For  instance, "FRECP11"
 and "VAX2.LAB1.LAN" are both valid node names.

 Note: On MITVMA.MIT.EDU, "Local" means MIT sites only.

****************************************************************
* Notebook= No | (Yes,(fm),(interval)|Separate,(access-level)) *
****************************************************************
   Indicates whether or not an automatic log of every piece of mail sent
 to the list  is to be kept,  and defines at which interval  of time its
 file name must  be changed and who  is allowed to retrieve  it from the
 server. The default values are "Notebook= No,A,Single,Private".

 (fm)        Is the filemode of the disk  on which the notebook is to be
              kept. This  information is of little  importance to users,
              except perhaps to the users  of the server's host computer
              who might, in certain circumstances, be allowed to LINK to
              one of the server's disks (containing public information).
              Contact the local LISTSERV operation staff for more infor-
              mation.

 (interval)  Defines the filetype  of the "notebook" file  for the list,
              as indicated below  (the filename will always  be the same
              as the list name):

 Single:     A single file of filetype "NOTEBOOK" is created.
 Yearly:     A new file is started each yearly, filetype is "LOGyy"
 Monthly:    The filetype is "LOGyymm"
 Weekly:     The filetype is "LOGyymmw" (w in "A"-"E")
 Separate:   A separate file is kept for each mailing (eg digests).
             The filetype is "yy-nnnnn" (sequential counter).

  Note: notebooks  can now be retrieved  by means of the  GET command. A
        list  of all  available notebooks  can  be obtained  with a  GET
        NOTEBOOK FILELIST command.

********************
* Notify= Yes | No *
********************
   Defines  whether the  list owner  is to  receive notification  of new
 subscriptions and deletions, etc. The default is "Yes".


*********************************************
* Owner= (net-address1)|(access-level1),... *
*********************************************
   Defines the  person or list of  persons who "own" the  list. They are
 responsible for  controlling access to  the list and defining  the list
 control keywords which are best suited  to the purpose of the list. The
 default value for  this keyword which should ALWAYS appear  in the list
 header is the  list of the userids of the  postmasters. Any combination
 of explicit network addresses  and complex access-levels is acceptable,
 for example: Owner= BIG@BLUE,(STAFF-L),Owner(MAIN-L)

   An interesting application is to create a STAFF-L list containing the
 userids of  all the local LISTSERV  staff members and set  the "Owner="
 keyword of all  local lists to "Owner= (STAFF-L)". This  way when there
 is a  change in the  local LISTSERV management  it is not  necessary to
 modify the  headers of all the  lists -- just modify  the STAFF-L list.

******************************
* Peers= (peer1),(peer2),... *
******************************
   Defines the  (global) list of all  the servers in the  world that are

1994\08\01@131017 by server at MITVMA (1.7f)

flavicon
face
 peer-linked to the list, either directly  or via one or more other peer
 servers. This information  is used by the various  list management com-
 mands to determine  the "nearest" peer list to a  given user. For exam-
 ple, when a SUBSCRIBE command is received  from a user and it is deter-
 mined that there is a better  (nearer) peer list for him, the subscrip-
 tion request  is automatically  forwarded to the  appropriate LISTSERV.

******************************
* Renewal= Yearly | Monthly  *
******************************
   This keyword enables the  automatic removal of subscribers to a list
 if they  do  not  re-subscribe  within  a  required time.  The user is
 notified twice,  via e-mail,  of their pending removal, if they do not
 reply,  the third message  sent is notification of  their removal from
 the list. (A nice way to help keep your list clean of dead users.)
 The default is "Renewal="   (disabled)
 Note: If this option is  enabled for a list,  the owners may alter the
       setting of an individual subscriber via the SET command.
       SET listname NORENEW FOR x@y

********************************************
* Reply-to= (destination),Respect | Ignore *
********************************************
   Indicates whether the  "Reply-to:" tag supplied by the  sender of the
 mail file is to be preserved or discarded (if present), and, if discar-
 ded or omitted, what should be  placed in the new "Reply-to:" generated
 by  the server.  The default  value is  "List,Respect". Note  that some
 mailing systems are unable to process a "Reply-To:" field with multiple
 addresses correctly  and may  therefore disregard the  "Reply-to= Both"
 option and treat it as "Reply-to= List".

 Respect:    The original "Reply-to:" tag, if any, is kept.
 Ignore:     The original "Reply-to:" tag is ignored and discarded.

**************************
* Review= (access-level) *
**************************
   This keyword defines the category of  users who are allowed to review
 the network  addresses and names of  the persons subscribed to  a list.
 The default value is "Public".
 Note: Individual subscribers to the list can use the SET command to
       CONCEAL their names from the people who REFIEW the list.

*********************************
* Send= (access-level) | Editor *
*********************************
   Defines the category of users who can mail or send files to the list.
 Possibly puts the list under control of an editor. The default value is
 "Public". When the  list is controlled by an editor,  any file or piece
 of mail sent  to the list is  forwarded to the editor, who  is the only
 person (with the list owner) to be  able to actually mail or send files
 to  the list.  The network  address  of the  editor is  defined by  the
 "Editor=" keyword.

********************************
* Service= (area1),(area2),... *
********************************
   Defines  the 'service  area'  outside of  which subcription  requests
 must  not  be accepted.  When  a  SUBSCRIBE  command is  received,  the
 "Peers=" keyword  is checked  first to  see if there  is a  nearer peer
 list in  the network. If  it is the case,  the command is  forwarded to
 this nearer server. If not, the  service area is checked to ensure that
 the recipient is acceptable; if it  is not, the subscription request is
 denied. When  the command  is forwarded,  the destination  server might
 still deny  access to  the list  if the subscriber  is outside  its own
 service area, if any.

   It is  important to  note that  the service area  check is  made only
 after the  "best placement" check.  This allows several servers  in the
 same country to share an identical service area, eg "Service= Germany",
 and still have users subscribed to the best possible server.

 Code "Service= Local" if you want to allow access by MIT address only.

**************************************************
* Stats= Normal | Extended | None,(access-level) *
**************************************************
   Indicates whether or not statistics are to be maintained for the list
 and if  yes, which level  of statistics is desired  and who is  able to
 retrieve the statistics reports. The default value is "Normal,Private".

   Normal statistics include number of mailings, number of outbound mail
 files, and total number of outbound 80-character records, for each user
 on the list, and a  similar information for file distribution. Extended
 statistics include all of the above plus actual network load indication
 in "link.kbytes" units.


******************************************
* Subscription= By_owner | Open | Closed *
******************************************
   This keyword defines whether or not new users are allowed to subcribe
 to the list, and if not,  whether their subscription requests are to be
 forwarded to the list owner or not.

 Open:       The users are allowed to subscribe to the list.

 By_owner:   The users are not  allowed to subscribe, but their requests
              will be forwarded to the  list owner. This is the default.

 Closed:     The users are not  allowed to subscribe, and their requests
              are not to be forwarded to the list owner.

***************************************
* Validate= Store only | All commands *
***************************************
   Under Revised LISTSERV, lists are  protected by a password which must
 be specified by the list owner when  he sends an updated version of the
 list back to the server. When "Validate= All commands", password valida
 tion applies to ALL the commands  that modify the contents of the list,
 eg SIGNOFF, SET, etc. This implies that users cannot use these commands
 since they  do not know the  list password. A notable  exception is the
 SUBscribe command, which  can still be used (if enabled)  to get on the
 list; however, sending a second SUBscribe command for the same list (to
 correct a  spelling error  in your  name) would  result in  the command
 being forwarded to the list owner and not immediately executed. This is
 to protect you from UREP hackers  who might issue a command "from" your
 userid@node to  change the name under  which you appear on  the list to
 something impolite. The default is  "Store only", but it is recommended
 that  "serious"  or "important"  lists  be  changed to  "Validate=  All
 commands".

******************************
* X-Tags= Yes | No | Comment *
******************************
   Indicates whether "X-To:" and "X-cc:" tags  are to be included in the
 output mail files  to list recipients of the original  mail file (other
 than the list userid) or not, and  how they should appear in the RFC822
 header.

 Yes:        This information  must be provided  in the form  of "X-To:"
             and  "X-cc:" tags  in  the RFC822  header  (similar to  the
             "To:" and "cc:" tags). This is the default.

 Comment:    This information must be provided in the form of "Comment:"
             tags, ie "Comment: X-To:" and "Comment: X-cc:".

 No:         This information must not appear at all in the mail haeder.


*************************************************************************
** Generic parameters **
** ------------------ **
(net-address):            Describes a RFC822-compatible network address,
                          usually of the "useridSTOPspamspamspam_OUTnode.domain" form.

(access-level):           Controls which category of users has access to
                          the information or service to which this para-
                          meter applies.  (access-level) can  be either:

                Public     Everybody has access to the information.
                Postmaster Only the  postmaster (ie LISTSERV  operations
                            staff) has access to the information.
                A1,A2,...  with Ai being either:

                           Private     Only users subscribed to the list
                                       have access to the information.
                           (listname)  Only the members of the specified
                                       list have access to the info.
                           Owner       Only  the list  owner can  access
                                       the information.
                           Owner(list) Only the  owner of  the indicated
                                       list can  access the information.
                           Service     Only people  in the  service area
                                       of the list can see the info.
                           Service(list)

(destination):            Indicates the destination  of a piece of mail,
                          message  or reply.  Depending on  the type  of
                          reply, all the options  listed below might not
                          be effective. For example, "Reply-to= None" is
                          functionally  identical  to "Sender",  whereas
                          "// JOB  Reply-to=None"  (in a  batch  command
                          file)  would  actually suppress  all  replies.

                List       The reply message is sent to the list.
                Sender     The  reply message  is sent to  the sender of
                            the original piece of mail.
                Both       The reply  message is  sent both to  the list
                            and to the original sender.
                None       No reply message is sent at all.
                "address"  The  reply message  is sent  to the specified
                            network address if enclosed in double quotes


(interval):               Is a time interval that indicates how frequent
                          ly an  operation is  to be renewed.  Note that
                          depending  on the  operation being  performed,
                          some of the options  may not be available. For
                          example, "Notebook= Yes,A,Daily"  is not avai-
                          lable.

                Yearly
                Monthly
                Weekly     Self-explanatory
                Daily
                Hourly
                Single     The operation is to be done only a single
                            time.

(peer):                   Is the  node-id or  network address of  a peer
                          list server. If  the name of the  peer list is
                          the same as the name  of the local list (which
                          will usually be the  case), only the node name
                          needs be  given. If the list  names are diffe-
                          rent, the full list network address must be
                          given, eg "REXX-L@UIUCVMD".


(area):                   Is a means whereby a node or list of nodes can
                          be identified. An area can be either:

                          - The name of a network, eg EARN, BITNET
                          - The name of a country, eg Germany, Canada
                          - 'Local', in which case  it is equated to the
                            value of the "Local=" keyword (qqv).
                          - A node name, eg FRECP11
                          - A simple  wildcard nodename pattern  such as
                            FR*, *11, *ESA*, D*ESA*, etc

(mon-address):            Is a means whereby 'list monitors' can be iden
                          tified (the  term 'list  monitor' refers  to a
                          human person  who monitors  the activity  of a
                          list). A 'mon-address' can be:

                          - A single network address, eg INFO@TCSVM
                          - 'Postmaster',  which  indicates  the  "main"
                             postmaster
                          - 'Postmasters', which indicates ALL the post-
                             masters, main and alternate
                          - 'Owner',  which  indicates the  "main"  list
                             owner  (the  first  to  be  listed  in  the
                             "Owner=" keyword)
                          - 'Owners', which indicates ALL list owners

   Whenever  several keywords  or operands  are accepted,  they will  be
 separated by a logical OR  sign (|). Unless specified otherwise, commas
 have "higher priority" than OR  signs, that is to say, "Public|Private,
 Open|Closed"   means  "(Public|Private),(Open|Closed)",   not  "Public|
 (Private,Open)|Closed".


'other microcontrollers' lists'
1994\09\08@175855 by crocontroller discussion list
flavicon
face
The following is info I have on a 68HC11 mailing list:

Welcome to the MC68HC11 mailing list. (last modified 15 March 1993)

This list is dedicated to discussions concerning the MC68HC11
single-chip microcontroller, its support chips, and the popular
EVB system.

Also, for the time being, discussions on the hc16 dsp chip
are welcome until such time as another forum is created, or
the volume of traffic dictates a split.

This is a semi-moderated group.  Requests to subscribe,
unsubscribe, or other administrivia is handled on a case by
case basis.

Please help keep the clutter in the group down. If you want
to subscribe, de-subscribe, or have other requests to make
about the mailing list, please send that sort of mail to
spamBeGonemc68hc11-requestSTOPspamspamEraseMEhipp.etsu.edu rather than the submission address,
KILLspammc68hc11spamBeGonespamhipp.etsu.edu. In order to avoid generating
endless mail loops (messages bouncing back and forth between
mindless mailers) some heuristics are applied to messages to
screen out those which appear to be errors or requests to be
added / deleted - if your message is less than 25 words or
longer than 5000 words, or contains "suspect" phrases
(such as subscribe) it will be routed to me and not sent
to the list.  If necessary, I'll post it manually when I have
a chance to look at it.

Additionally, please read the FAQ list below before posting.
Your question might be answered before you get your first
article!

Incidentally, hipp stands for the "Historic Image Processing
Project" - the main use of the storage on this PC.

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

0. "Who are you?"

       Nick Sayer orginated the list, but found it growing very
       rapidly and straining the connectivity resources of his machine.
       I voluenteered to take the list over since I've been using the HC11
       EVB in my classes for several years.  There are now about 300
       subscribers on the list located in 13 different countries.

The list is originated at the Department of Computer and Information
Sciences of East Texas State University, located in Commerce, Texas
about 60 miles east of Dallas.  It was previously located in Flagstaff
Arizona, but was moved from there due to the lack of support for the
list and the fact that the administratior was laid off due to budget
cutbacks in higher education in Arizona.

Perhaps of some interest is that the list is being run on a 386 based
PC using the GNU copyleft 386BSD unix system, a terrific piece of
software for the price (free).

        ---Bob Wier,
              list admin (EraseMEwierspamEraseMEhipp.etsu.edu or @spam@wier@spam@spamspam_OUTmerlin.etsu.edu)

1. "What is the MC68HC11?"

It is a group of single-chip microcontrollers made by Motorola
based on the 6800 CPU. Unlike many such chips, however, the
chip can boot into an extended mode which replaces two of
the parallel ports with a complete address and data bus.
The very same chip, therefore, can be used for prototype AND
for the final product. This is truly a terrific chip!

The base model is the MC68HC11A8. It has the 6800 CPU, 8K of
factory programmed ROM, 512 bytes of EEPROM, 256 bytes of RAM,
1 serial port, 8 A/D converters, a timer/counter unit, a serial
communications channel (NOT an asynchronous serial port),
and 5 parallel ports. The A1 is used in the EVB, and is the same
thing without the ROM.

2. "What is the EVB or MC68HC11EVB?"

It is a circuit board containing a MC68HC11A1, a PRU (port
replacement unit - replaces the two ports taken up by the address
bus), 8K of external ROM - which contains a powerful monitor, and
two RS-232 ports.

You can plug one end of a cable into the EVB and the other end
into a socket in a product that would take a MC68HC11 and use
the monitor to debug the prototype hardware, or plug that cable
into a big storage scope and debug the software.... the mind
boggles.

3. "How and/or where can I purchase an EVB?"

       For the past several years, Motorola has run a "student design
       contest" which has encouraged the use of the hc11/evb in
       university courses.  Thus universitys are frequently in a
 position to order the EVB (or you may find them available off
       the shelf at the U bookstore).

       A number of "standard" electronics and component suppliers also
       carry the board.

       The EVB actually comes in three flavors -

       The original EVB - which is what the moderator has used for several
       years in design courses - a terrific deal for students at the
original
       price of $68.11 (cute...).  Instead of having them buy a text
       (which would probably cost that anyway), they just bought an EVB
       and got to take the computer with them at the end of the semester.
       The course(s) was taught from the technical manuals included with
       the kit.

       The EVB requires a dumb ascii terminal or better (Mac or PC
       recommended) and a power supply with +5, and +/- 12 v (to run the
       RS232 interface).

       Unfortunately the current production status of the EVB is unknown.

       In the fall of 1991 Motorola introduced two new products, the EVBII
and
       the EVBU:

       The EVBII is a redesign of the EVB using "modern" technology, such
       as a charge pump chip to develop the RS232 voltages. It also has
       available a subsidary logic analyzer board.  I've not had time
       to look at this extensively yet.  Also, the price range is up around
       $150, making it too expensive for an individual student purchase
       plan (at least at state supported universities).

       To fill the gap left by the EVB, there is the EVBU (university
       model) which is available at the original EVB price of $68.11.
       (The last I heard, the EVB was available at $88, but hasn't been
       confirmed recently).  The EVBU is a usable microcontroller, but
       is limited in such respects as memeory supplied.  It does have
       a wire wrap area (and in fact one student group here this spring
       used and EVBU in a project and wire wrapped in a subsidiary
       EPROM chip - not a big deal). It also includes a Real Time
       Clock chip (although a number of boards received here early in
       the production run were missing it).

       Using a Mac or a PC with the EVB / EVBU / EVBII gives you a
       complete development system at a VERY reasonable cost (assuming
       you already have the computer).  Freeware / Shareware is
       available (cross - compilers, monitors, simple C compilers)
       either at the ftp site here or elsewhere.

       There was also an EVM (evaluation module) which was a higher
       level product than the EVB.  I'm not sure if it's still in
       production or what it might cost.

The address and phone number for Motorola University Support is:

       Motorola SPS
       University Support 56-106
       P.O. Box 52073
       Phoenix, Az 85072
       602-952-3855
       602-952-3621 (FAX)

There is an excellent introductory article in June 1991 issue of
Computer Craft (formerly Modern Electronics) on M68HC11 micro-
controller and the EVB along with the above mentioned pricing
and availability infromation. Circuit Cellar also publishes
       articles from time to time on the HC11.

       HC11 information has also appeared in Circida's Circuit Cellar Ink,
       (he also had a column in BYTE magazine for a number of years)
       and Midnight Engineering magazine (strong on micro controller
content).
       Also, if you qualify, Embedded Systems magazine is very worthwhile
       (a "controlled circulation" magazine).

I strongly recommend that anyone interested in buying the EVB should
call the University Support to confirm availability and price, before
sending in any money.

Disclaimer: I am not connected with Motorola or Computer Craft in any
way other than being a happy customer.

4. "How can I get in touch with Motorola to get technical info?"

As far as I can tell, Motorola University support (as they like to
call themselves) is headed by Fritz Wilson.

His office is in the Semiconductor Products Sector in
Phoenix, Arizona.

Fritz: 602-952-3855

They can help you with pretty much anything, but beware, it's
usually pretty hard to get in touch with them, and they have
a real annoying voice mail system. ;)

All requests to them must be in writing.  Students should include
a copy of their ID along with their written request.
FAX requests are accepted at the FAX number: 602-952-3621.

Otherwise, they give the address of:

P.O. BOX 52073
Phoenix, AZ 85072-2073

But, on another card I received, there is also listed the following:

3102 North 56th Street
Phoenix, AZ 85018-6606

When paying for something, they hold onto personal checks
until they clear the bank, so you may want to send a cashiers
check.  If you can get your university to pay for it, you
can just send them the purchase order, and they will bill you.

5. "Where can I get support software?"

Right Here! Just anonymous ftp into pub/hc11 on hipp.etsu.edu
       and you will find hc11 support software, mirroring the
       Motorola freeware bulletin board (see below).  Motorola
       has given permission to make this available to encourge
       wider distribution of hc11 tools via the Internet.
       I plan on reorganizing this when I get a chance to make it
       more logical. Honest.

       You can call the Motorola "Freeware BBS" at 512-891-FREE (3733)
(1200/2400 bps). They have cross assemblers, sources for
the BUFFALO monitors, etc.

       Other likely sites: here is an ARCHIE listing (as of 24 Apr 1992):

      LOCATION (anonymous ftp via Internet) (many of these require BINARY
                file transfer!)

      aix370.rrz.uni-koeln.de /programming
      bode.ee.ualberta.ca /pub/DOS/motorola/68hc11
      sugrfx.acs.syr.edu /pub/vr/powerglove/hc11
      ee.utah.edu /admin
      karazm.math.uh.edu
      calvin.stanford.edu /motorola/68hc11
      calvin.stanford.edu /new_uploads
      hpcsos.col.hp.com /misc/motorola/68hc11
      lth.se /pub/languages/assembler
      munnari.oz.au /pub
      nic.funet.fi /pub/msdos/interfaces/emulators
      plaza.aarnet.edu.au /micros/pc/oak/emulators
      rigel.acs.oakland.edu /pub/msdos
      sun0.urz.uni-heidelberg.de /pub/msdos/simtel/emulators
      wuarchive.wustl.edu /mirrors/msdos/emulators

      The OLD archive/mailing site was rainbow.cse.nau.edu or alternately,
      red.cs.tcu.edu. These should NOT be used since they have been
      superceeded by the etsu site.

       If you find anything really neat at these sites, I'd appreciate
       a note so I can put it in here.

6.      What is the PowerGlove HC11 machine?

The powerglove is a device originally manufactured for video game usage,'
but which has been adapted as a general position sensitive input device.
It's of interest here because one of the major interfaces was developed
using the hc11 - doing an ARCHIE search turns up the following sites for
more information.

Host compute1.cc.ncsu.edu   (152.1.10.46)
Last updated 02:47 15 Mar 1993

   Location:
/mirrors/wustl/graphics/graphics/mirrors/sugrfx.acs.syr.edu/powerg
love
     DIRECTORY rwxr-xr-x       512  Dec  5 18:23   hc11

Host ftp.nau.edu   (134.114.64.70)
Last updated 02:41 15 Mar 1993

   Location: /
      DIRECTORY rwxr-xr-x       512  Dec  5 04:30   hc11

Host frosch.cosy.sbg.ac.at   (141.201.2.16)
Last updated 16:33 14 Mar 1993

   Location: /pub/mirror/vr/powerglove
     DIRECTORY rwxr-xr-x      1024  Feb 13 15:17   hc11

Host wuarchive.wustl.edu   (128.252.135.4)
Last updated 19:12  5 Mar 1993

   Location: /graphics/graphics/mirrors/sugrfx.acs.syr.edu/powerglove
     DIRECTORY rwxr-xr-x       512  Dec  5 17:23   hc11

Host sunsite.unc.edu   (152.2.22.81)
Last updated 01:00  3 Mar 1993

   Location: /pub/academic/computer-science/virtual-reality/powerglove
     DIRECTORY rwxr-xr-x       512  Dec  3 07:22   hc11

Host plaza.aarnet.edu.au   (139.130.4.6)
Last updated 06:43 27 Feb 1993

   Location: /graphics/graphics/mirrors/sugrfx.acs.syr.edu/powerglove
     DIRECTORY rwxr-xr-x       512  Feb  1 00:59   hc11

  -    Bob Wier, keeper of the list

1994\09\14@081332 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
>>Why on earth would you want to go and use an 8051, when you could use a
>>perfectly good PIC to do the job?
>>Rgds
>
>Although I prefere PICs I was "forced" to use 8032 in my last project
>and only because I COULDN'T GET WANTED PART :((
>Supplyers in Germany are not very eager to sell stuff by mail, and
>local shops doesn't even bother to order some PICs, but Intel is
>represented on their shelves quite well...
>So, please if you know any supplyers near Croatia (lets say in Austria or
>Italy ) let me know of them.
>
>Tibor
>
>( spamBeGonetiborspamKILLspammvsrce.srce.hr )

Hi,
I don't know if this is considered as unwanted commercial advertising, but
I think will be told :-), and besides, I don't work for them - just happen
to have their catalog lying next to me:
RS Components have a reasonable (?) set of PIC processors and development sets
(PICStart 16B, 17A and 16C, PICMaster 16B, Promaster, PIC
16C54/55/56/57/64/84, 17C42).

According to my catalog, their telephone number for Austria is 02852 - 505,
for Germany 061 05 401 234, for Italy 02 27 425 1.

Their prices are generally not very low, but they promise to send any
amount of parts - down to a single resistor.

In addition, I still have a few postcards for catalog requests. So if you
just send me your address, I could mail them for you.

Bye
 Markus  (.....bd24spam_OUTspamrz.uni-karlsruhe.de)


'pic list lull'
1994\10\26@140728 by crocontroller discussion list
flavicon
face
several people have sent me email about the lack of traffic on the list.

everything seems to be fine with the list (last count there were over 300
subscribers), so i'd put it down to queit time in pic land.

if anyone is posting to the list, and not seeing it show up, send me email.

last time i posted a test message, i know some people gt it, since i
received some email replies, and a posted reply.

later,

jory

1994\10\27@162111 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Jory,

May I suggest that somebody (you?? or some automated mechanism) post a
how-to-post type article.

While I read what flies past, I never seem to be able to find the how-to-post
info when I need it.

Thanx

-- Charles

'how to post to the pic list'
1994\10\29@031937 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
charles writes:

>Jory,
>
>May I suggest that somebody (you?? or some automated mechanism) post a
>how-to-post type article.
>
>While I read what flies past, I never seem to be able to find the how-to-post
>info when I need it.


in case this detail is keeping people from jumping into the fray:

there are basically two ways to post to the pic list:

1. you can send email addressed to TakeThisOuTpic.....spamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu

2. you can "reply" with your mailer software to a message which was sent to
thepic list.

note that if you simply reply to a message someone sent to the pic list,
your response will go to the list, and not to the individual who sent the
message.
in order to send to the original poster, you must manually supply their
email address (which is notes in their original mail to the list).

also note that adding or deliting yourself from the list is done by sending
email to TakeThisOuTlistservKILLspamspamspammitvma.mit.edu, not to the list address itself.

hope this helps,

jory


'your mail (futile removal requests to the list)'
1994\11\15@045013 by crocontroller discussion list
flavicon
face
>>
>> Please remove my name from the mailing list.
>> .....jim.knoxspamRemoveMEum.cc.umich.edu       Thanks.
>Me too. This list is far to productive. What about a news conference..?
>
>
>--
>Roger (Sysop RaumaMBBS #1 +47 712 54774 (300-21600+HST))
>      (                #2 +47 712 56759 (300-9600 +HST))
>PolarNet: Roger Storvik@RBS --- Internet Email: RemoveMERoger.StorvikspamspamBeGonehiMolde.no


While I generally ignore administrative matters sent directly to the list
(negative reinforcement) I'd like to make a little clarification.

The only way to be removed from the pic list is to send a message to the
listserv address (spamBeGonelistserv@spam@spamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu) with the body text of:

UNSUBscribe PIC

You must send the email from the account from which you originally subscribed.

Please note that it is considered rude to post unsubscribe requests
directly to the list (this holds true for most mailing lists!). In addition
to being rude, it does not tend to get you unsubscribed from the list.

In the *unusual* circumstance that you genuinely need assistance getting
off the list (not just because you don't feel like dealing with a listserv)
you can send me email directly (TakeThisOuTjoryspamspammit.edu), and we can discuss your
problems. I try to deal with real issues in a helpful manner.

In terms of going over to usenet (the contentful part of the quoted
post)... I am alway open to new ideas. Are people desirous of such a move?

Another possible solution I could see would be to split the group between
hardware and software (or some such thing).

To put things in perspective (mine that is):
I filter all the PIC list mail with Eudora into appropriate mailboxes... so
I don't yet have a problem with the volume (even my net access is
presently: TCP/IP via SLIP via TIA via Telnet via Dialup ;)

later,
jory bell
joryEraseMEspammit.edu
pic list maintainer

'How about Usenet _and_ mail list?'
1994\11\18@141546 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
John R. Haggis  wrote:
[...]

> Weeellll, the PIC technical group would be a far cry from ba.personals, in
> terms of justification and public merit.  But please, Ran, tell us about
> what you saw, and what you know about starting newsgroups.  Is it different
> on different branches of the tree?  I've heard alt. is very easy, while
> other branches are more difficult.

I am not Ran, but since I can answer this question I'll answer it anyway:

+ Creation of a newsgroup in alt is quite easy, but there is no guarantee
 that sites will carry it. Individual news maintainers will decide whether
 to carry the group. Some sites don't carry any alt groups.

+ Creation of a newsgroup in "the big seven" (among which sci and comp)
 is harder:
 Required is a Request For Discussion posted in the moderated newsgroup
 news.announce.newgroups, followed by at least 21 days of discussion in
 news.groups, followed by a Call For Votes in news.announce.newgroups.
 This takes at least 42 days (make it two months, with Christmas).
 Also required is a sufficient number of YES votes (roughly 100 more YES
 than no votes, and at least 2/3 YES votes).
 Are there already that many people who would even vote on the proposal?
 See the documents in news.answers (or was it news.announce.newgroups?)
 for details.

 Some questions that will have to be answered in the process is why
 the current newsgroups (like for example sci.electronics) could not
 handle the PIC related posts by using a '[PIC]' tag on all PIC-related
 posts and a reader with killfile capability, and why a mailing list would
 not be appropriate.

 If the discussion and the voting went well, then there is a fair chance
 that news maintainers will carry the new group. No guarantees though.
>
> - JohnR

I am afraid I contributed to the organizational noise here, but in the
hope that this noise will disappear.
--
Sincerely yours,

       Gertjan Akkerman ( RemoveMEakkermanEraseMEspamspam_OUTdutiba.twi.tudelft.nl )

'Mailing list digests.'
1994\11\26@154242 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
I've been talking to Jory Bell about this, but we just realized
that it never got posted to the mailing list.

There is a simple way of reducing mail volume, while still keeping
the PIC mailing list. The listserv software that maintains the list
has the option of delivering an automatic digest of the mailing
list.

If you use this option, all the traffic on the PIC list in a given
day is bundled up and mailed to you once a day (at about midnight)
in a single message. If the mail volume is very high you may get
more than one digest per day (this has only happened a couple times
to me). Sometimes things are very quiet and there is no traffic, in
which case there will be no digest message at all.

The disadvantage is that a digest is less interactive. You
generally won't see the discussion on the list until the next day.
For people who mostly lurk like me, this isn't a problem. If you
post a lot you probably will not want the digest option.

To receive the mailing list as a digest, send a message to the
listserv processor @spam@LISTSERVRemoveMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU. In the body of the
message have the single line:

SET PIC DIGEST

   NOTE!!!
       Do NOT send the message to EraseMEPICspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU !
       Do NOT simply reply to this message!

   Doing so will send your goof to HUNDREDS of people
   around the world, generating lots of annoyance at you.
   (Sorry for yelling...)

You need to send the message from the same account that you receive
the PIC list at. The listserv determines who gets the digest
using the From: line of your message.

If you want to explore other options of the listserv, send the command

INFO REFCARD

to the listserv address. You will get a listserv reference card by
return mail.

I hope this helps people who are getting buried by all the mail.
It's a good way to go because people can individually choose
whether they want low latency time or low mail volume. It avoids
all the potential hassles of a newsgroup. I've been using the
digest option since August, and it certainly works well for me.

Cheers,

Dave



---
David A. Boulton                 | knowledge is just a polite
@spam@boultonspam_OUTspam.....netcom.com               | term for dead,
Peregrine Associates             | but not buried imagination.
POB 1385 Redwood City, CA 94064  |           -- e.e. cummings


'Listserver problem? How to get help?'
1994\12\16@095859 by crocontroller discussion list
flavicon
face
I no longer seem to be receiving the PIC mail.  The automatic response
from the listserver tells me that I am still registered on the PIC list.
Can anyone tell me how to go about getting the flow of mail turned on
again?

john kallend

'Commercialism on the PIC email list '
1994\12\20@105120 by don.wills

flavicon
face
Dear Jory,

My 2 cents - I think that the commercial message sent by Lance Walley was
just fine for this mailing list.  I would like to see all vendors of PIC
products respond when a person asks a question about what is available (if
they have a relevant product).

Don Wills



'List/News Advertising'
1994\12\20@113318 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
What needs to happen pretty soon is that the net community at large
makes some kind of decision before the time to ponder is all used up.

There are two basic objections to advertising, especially on the net
one, they are often unsolicited, otherwise they would be sent to
the intended as e-mail and secondly there is a concensus that people
should not be able to get commercial 'gain' for 'free', this is also
only relevant with regard to the bandwidth that the adverts might
consume.

There is a lot of other traffic that is of no benefit to the majority
but is allowed to fill up the net as it is not ostensibly commercial,
this is things like faqs, binaries, pictures and mostly people over
quoting what others say.  (I do not profess to be innocent of all the
above indiscressions) One must also not forget that many of the bits
of information that we list and news users receive in our chosen
work fields are used to finacial gain, they may be so much wasted
bandwidth to others.

Having said all that there seems to be some simple steps that could be
taken.  I have little say in the running of these things but what I
propose is probably not new or novel.  Rather than have a Flag in the
document there could be a header entry such as 'X-Type : ADVERT' this
would allow people the full use of the system and people or forwarders
who object to seeing or transporting ads would be able to fine tune their
software to delete, not-display, flag, truncate, bounce :-), flame
or ignore the postings if they were there or had a size larger than say
25 lines of content (I hear that the lines tag is not always supported).
If the forwarder wanted to make money it would only forward ads that had
a pre-registered 'Organisation : ...' tag that they had a billing agreement
with.

What the ned does not need/want is to stat dictating what individuals
may or may not do, just how one can identify actions so those individuals
can make their own choices on what to do with them.  Ship ads only when
the links are idle perhaps then the corporates will increase the link
speed to make sure their ads get delivered.

The Parallax ad was relatively ok as it was appropriate to the discussion
and would have informed many readers,  if those who object had a way
of making the ads vanish and not seeing the ad quoted (another feature of
the X-Type : ADVERT tag and the posting sw) then all would be happy.

Enough,
Kalle
--
Kalle Pihlajasaari         spamBeGonekalleEraseMEspamdata.co.za

'Stamp List'
1994\12\20@140211 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
You can subscribe to the smap list by sending mail to the following...

majordomospamBeGonespamcybernetics.net

In your message put the following in the body...

subscribe stamp-list <your email address here>




Tim McDonough -- RemoveMEtimmed@spam@spamspamBeGonecencom.net


On Tue, 20 Dec 1994, Lance Walley wrote:

{Quote hidden}

'Commercials on the mail list'
1994\12\21@113022 by narch.central.sun.com (Jon Poland SE Sun St Louis)n/a

flavicon
face
Jory,

I am responding to you privately regarding the commercials on the PIC list
because:

- I think enough has been said that I don't think I can add significantly to
       justify the bandwidth.
- Some people might missuse the following comments.

I think the Paralax thing was appropriate - especially with it being a new
product which is of general interest to the entire group.

The follow-on posting apologizing for the quality of the documentation was
NOT appropriate for a general posting IMHO because it was directed to a
specific individual about a specific problem with no solution offered - all
it did was advertise Parallax's email address, that they have a hobby pack,
that quality might not be there - but documentation being fixed, AND new
products are on the way.  To me this was an advertisement.

BUT HERE IS THE KICKER - we know that this was from a commercial company,
however you cannot say that about unsolicited endorsements from others - they
may be "selling" for their company.  For example:  if you saw a posting such
as ".....jon.poland@spam@spamEraseMEcentral.sun.com writes:  I just bought Sun's new widget - it
works great and only costs $99 plus the service was great."  Everyone would
be extremely suspicious.  But if you saw the same posting from me from my
*other* email address:  .....polandRemoveMEspammichelob.wustl.edu, you would have no idea
that I was hawking my employer's product.

The best I think you can do as moderator of this group is to say thank you
to Parallax, tell them that this will now be put in the FAQ, and please
refer future quieries to the FAQ.

Good luck!

Jon Poland
Sun Microsystems Inc.
St. Louis, MO
(314) 569-4716
.....jon.polandSTOPspamspam@spam@central.sun.com

'PIC list help needed'
1994\12\21@123002 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
If anyone on the PIC list has any connection with the server and its
administration ,please help.   I received the PIC traffic until
10 days ago, when it suddenly stopped.  I interrogated the
LISTSERV and found that I am still listed as a subscriber. I sent
e-mail to the individuals named in the HELP document, but received
no acknowledgement.  There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with
e-mail connections at this end, I get stuff from all over (but not
from mitvma!).

john kallend

1994\12\21@125327 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
there is currently a problem with digest mode.

jory bell
joryEraseMEspam@spam@mit.edu

{Quote hidden}


'!*!*!*!*!*! pic list name change !*!*!*!*!*!'
1995\01\13@081244 by crocontroller discussion list
flavicon
face
I don't use too many mailing lists--am I correct in assuming that I
need to do nothing as far as the changeover goes accept when posting
an original message to the list?


Tim McDonough -- RemoveMEtimmedspamspamBeGonecencom.net

1995\01\13@135457 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
"unsubscribe"!!!! That's unthinkable!!!


Tim McDonough -- spamBeGonetimmedKILLspamspam@spam@cencom.net


On Fri, 13 Jan 1995, jory bell wrote:

{Quote hidden}

'*** List renaming to PicList ***'
1995\01\15@011004 by crocontroller discussion list

flavicon
face
Dear Subscriber to the PIC discussion list--

As a result of MIT's coordination of previously separate computing systems,
it has become necessary to rename this discussion list.  Beginning with
Tuesday 17 January 1995, please use the name PICLIST in place of PIC for all
commands to and communication with this list.  We shall try to insure that
messages specifying the former name, during a suitable grace period, will
receive a notice of the name change.

We regret that we have found such a change necessary for the benefit of our
local clients, but trust that it should not cause any great disruption for
you.  Please let us know immediately if it does not behave properly for you.

Art Anger, Postmaster@MITVMA

'Who is on the list....'
1995\01\26@084309 by Paul Greenwood

flavicon
face
Hello - here is my intro:

I am a EE, working at IBM developing AIX/UNIX workstations.  I work with the
PICs in my spare time in an attempt to create the ultimate home-automation
system for myself.

Oh yeah, I live in Austin, TX, USA.  I'm 27, 5'11", 166lbs, (oh, this isn't a
personal ad, huh?).

Is there anyone else in Austin on the list?

--

           -- Paul Greenwood --  (spamBeGonepablo@spam@spamaustin.ibm.com)

First Rule of History:
       History doesn't repeat itself -- historians merely repeat each
       other.

1995\01\26@102520 by John M. Johnson

flavicon
face
On Thu, 26 Jan 1995, Paul Greenwood wrote:
> Oh yeah, I live in Austin, TX, USA.  I'm 27, 5'11", 166lbs, (oh, this isn't a
> personal ad, huh?).
Hmm when I traded you that PIC i would guess you were a little shorter
and a little heavier :) just joking
>
> Is there anyone else in Austin on the list?
yup, but only in summers,spring break and cmas brake.

I am a EE&CS student at the University of Texas at Dallas.  I am an ex UT
Austin student(left to come here for a telecom specialization.)  Creeping
along my 3rd year of both CS and EE(EE is more fun btw).
       I started using PICs to make aviation test equipment(tach pusle
generator) and quite my job there before i was finished because the bozo
didnt pay me.  Went to work for a company in Austin and my first
finalized project was a braking simulator for Canada rail(used 3 pics and
two Xlinx and a whole lot of f**king analog stuff[yes i hate analog]).
       On more to the point.  Every hardware project I do i use a pic in
some way.  They are totally easy and all my profs are impressed because
they have never heard of it and think its neat(i now share my programmer
with 2 of my profs at school who also tinker w/ pics).

later
       John
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Johnson  Team OS/2 member | RemoveMEjohnsonjEraseMEspamKILLspambga.com | spamBeGonejohnsonjspam_OUTspamRemoveMEutdallas.edu
                  C&H Technologies VXI Plug N' Play member
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
And the Seventh version of OS/2 raised into the air its bow of blue steel and
cried," It. Is. Done."  Around him lay Bill Gates and Microsoft apps.  Their
evil in this world at an end.
                                       Revelations of InfoWorld, Oct 11 1994

'Is PICLIST OK?'
1995\01\31@095908 by John S. Kallend

flavicon
face
I sent a message to PICLIST last week, and it prompted an automated
response as if i had sent it to LISTSERV (that is, each line was
treated as a LISTSERV command). I also stopped receiving PIC mail
about the same time.

jk

1995\01\31@103526 by Derrick Early

flavicon
picon face
> I sent a message to PICLIST last week, and it prompted an automated
> response as if i had sent it to LISTSERV (that is, each line was
> treated as a LISTSERV command). I also stopped receiving PIC mail
> about the same time.

Yep, I had the same experience.

Yours,

Derrick Early
.....earlyspamRemoveMEfinite.nrl.navy.mil

1995\01\31@125554 by tom

flavicon
picon face
> I sent a message to PICLIST last week, and it prompted an automated
> response as if i had sent it to LISTSERV (that is, each line was
> treated as a LISTSERV command). I also stopped receiving PIC mail
> about the same time.

I hate doing this but,  ME TOO !

Did anyone see my ramblings about the FAQ ?
__
  TAK

'list problems (again!)'
1995\01\31@131053 by jory bell

face
flavicon
face
Well, it appears the list went down again shortly after it had started
working after the last little "incident."

The last message that came through was on Thursday. Perhaps the listserv
software was concerned that our signal to noise ratio was falling in the
"who are you" thread ;)

Actually, apparently the listserv was set to stop distribution (of any
list) if it received more than 50 messages in a day. Ironically, it was our
post-list-silence verbosity that did us in.

If things don't settle down soon, I will consider moving the list to my new
net site (org.org) so I can have more complete control over list
maintainance and hopefully avoid these problems (you's think you could
depend on MIT information systems, sheesh...)

To be fair, MIT is providing the list distribution service for free, so I
guess you get what you pay for.

-jory


'Hello PicList!'
1995\02\02@151132 by igel Cartwright
flavicon
face
       Seeing as everyone seems to be saying hello...
       My name is Nigel Cartwright, and I live and work near Birmingham,
England. (Are there any PIC users nearby?...). I run a small industrial
model making company and use PICs for timing etc in dispalys and models, as
well as on the hobby side at home - mainly interfaces to Macs etc.

       Regards



<===========Nigel Cartwright===========>
<==== n.cartwrightspam@spam@auntie.bbcnc.org.uk ====>

'Is PICLIST hearing _me_ ???'
1995\02\03@005007 by tom

flavicon
picon face
Before total paranoia sets in, Is anyone receiving my postings to the list ?
I've tried twice to ask questions about the FAQ and received NO replies via the
list.
Am I "getting out" ? (or in, depending on your POV )

--
       Tom (the FAQ is ready) Kellett.

1995\02\04@202012 by tom

flavicon
picon face
Thanks to all who replied to sooth my fevered brow.

The PIC FAQ is being posted to the list, even as I type.

The consensus is to stay with ascii at present.

Your mission, (should you choose to accept), is to proof-read, fact-check and
generally pick holes in it.
You have until midnight [GMT] on monday 6th Feb to report.
[short time-scale I know but the list hiccough threw me off track]
__
  TAK

'Advertisements on the PICLIST'
1995\02\04@234153 by jory bell

face
flavicon
face
Andrew Warren sent me email asking:

>Was I out of line sending that message about Lance Walley's "Surplus.txt
>as promised" message?  Please clarify the list's policy regarding this
>type of "SALE!!  THIS MONTH ONLY!!!" advertising.

I responded as follows:

{Quote hidden}

1995\02\05@005442 by Brian Lane

flavicon
face
On Sat, 4 Feb 1995, jory bell wrote:

> Andrew Warren sent me email asking:
>
> >Was I out of line sending that message about Lance Walley's "Surplus.txt
> >as promised" message?  Please clarify the list's policy regarding this
> >type of "SALE!!  THIS MONTH ONLY!!!" advertising.
>

  [chop... chop....]

 Well I guess I'll wade in here. First an introduction. I am currently
employed as a microprocessor programmer for a consultant in Washington
State, up near Mt. Rainier. We mostly do controllers for Ship to Shore HF
radios, and handheld VHF radios using Motorola 68HCxx parts. I use PICs
in my home projects(built a distinctive ring switcher). I am also working
on a B.S. EET degree at the local community college, and preparing to set
up a limited Internet Provider/BBS with my Linux box.

OK, as to commercialism on the list I think it has a place when it is
in response to someone's question. BUT just posting announcements of
commercial products 'Really Bugs Me' I personally don't use any of
Parallax's products, and am not interested in them. I see their ads in
CCI and I believe that's all the exposure I want.

If Lance got requests for information from list subscribers, he should
be emailing them directly instead of thru the list. In my opinion the
list should be for the discussion of the technical aspects of using the
PIC processors, not as a target for marketing types(not that I am
accusing Lance of 'targeting' the list).

    Brian

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone is a prisoner holding their own key." | Chaos Labs (360)569-2911
 http://nyx10.cs.du.edu:8001/~blane/home.html   |   Electronics/uP files
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1995\02\05@090701 by tom

flavicon
picon face
Brian Lane <EraseMEblaneRemoveMEspamSTOPspamnyx10.cs.du.edu> Wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Feb 1995, jory bell wrote:
> > Andrew Warren sent me email asking:
> >
> > >Was I out of line sending that message about Lance Walley's "Surplus.txt
> > >as promised" message?  Please clarify the list's policy regarding this
> > >type of "SALE!!  THIS MONTH ONLY!!!" advertising.
> >
>
>    [chop... chop....]
>
>Hack<

>  If Lance got requests for information from list subscribers, he should
> be emailing them directly instead of thru the list.

I hold no brief for Lance, but in fairness it looked like a cock-up to me.:)

The list-address was left in by accident ?

> In my opinion the list should be for the discussion of the technical aspects
> of using the PIC processors, not as a target for marketing types(not that I
> am accusing Lance of 'targeting' the list).
Fine dividing line to tread here IMO.

I'll wait to see Lance's grovelling apology :) :) :)
__
  TAK

1995\02\05@094507 by Timothy McDonough DIAL UP1

flavicon
face
FWIW, I think the message in question from Lance should have been to the
effect that they had decided to have a sale on the discontinued tools and
people should ftp the file from Parallax if interested.

Posting it only once would have been good too, although I suspect the
multiple posts were a technical glitch and not intentional.

Tim McDonough -- RemoveMEtimmedKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTcencom.net

On Sat, 4 Feb 1995, jory bell wrote:

> Andrew Warren sent me email asking:
>
> >Was I out of line sending that message about Lance Walley's "Surplus.txt
> >as promised" message?  Please clarify the list's policy regarding this
> >type of "SALE!!  THIS MONTH ONLY!!!" advertising.
>
[snip]

> >
> >Were you around when Lance first came on the list a couple months ago? He
> >posted some (in my opinion) spam, and I called him on it in an exchange
> >posted to the list (which I would be happy to forward to you). He promptly
> >apologized for his possible misdeeds, but many members of the list were
> >fairly supportive of his posting and a relatively high degree of general
> >commercialism (much to my chagrin).

1995\02\06@082809 by Ran Talbott

flavicon
face
>FWIW, I think the message in question from Lance should have been to the
>effect that they had decided to have a sale on the discontinued tools and
>people should ftp the file from Parallax if interested.

I agree.  Tim's comments are along the lines of the ones I made a while back
on sci.electronics when someone from National Semi was asking how vendors
should use the net.  The philosophy I suggested then was to broadcast only
"invitations to contact" (e.g.,  announcements of WWW or ftp site openings),
not the information itself.

In addition to Tim's recommendation,  I'd suggest three other criteria for
"commercial" postings to the list:

  1. That they be *directly* PIC-related.  I.e.,  it's okay to annouce a new
     PIC cross-assembler,  but not a "hot deal" on hard disks on the grounds
     that "PIC developers use machines with hard disks for compiling".
  2. That the info not be readily-available in the press.  E.g.,  Parallax
     announcing a sale on surplus equipment would be okay,  but not
     using the list to advertise their "hobbyist special" programmer,
     because that's part of their regular advertising.
  3. The information has to be "incomplete":  no snail mail addresses,
     no phone numbers,  no exact prices.  That would tend to (though not
     always,  of course) require email contact to make any sales,  which
     would discourage people from trying to use the list as an ad medium.

I think this makes a fairly good compromise that benefits all concerned,
while minimizing annoyance and noise.

Ran

'PICLIST Digest - 20 Feb 1995 to 21 Feb 1995'
1995\02\23@162527 by Christer Johansson

picon face
>Does anyone know if the STAMP list has died or moved during the last couple
>of months? I haven't reveived anything this year. I have PIC's & some
>STAMPS & would like to keep current on both.
>
>Regards,
>
>Dave

I haven't received anything but I think the STAMP list is alive even
if the mail volume isn't like on this list :-)...

/Christer

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* Christer Johansson --  HTH  -- * email: spamBeGonecjspam@spam@aristotle.algonet.se *
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
   >> World Wide Web: http://www.algonet.se/~cj/homepage.html <<
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


'8031 mailing list'
1995\03\30@151313 by Christer Johansson
picon face
>Hello,
>
>Maybe this is not the right way. But most likely there are many people like
>me who also use other microcontrollers.
>
>Does anybody know if there is also a mailinglist for the 8031 serie
>controllers ?

Hi Marcel,

Yes there are one list but it's not very active, at least not for the
moment...

Philips MCU Forum
=================

The purpose of this forum is to share ideas and information about the
microcontroller world, with the focus on 80C51 derivative micros and designs.

To Subscribe send a message to:

RemoveMEPhilips-forum-requestspam_OUTspamInetBSystems.us.com

With "subscribe" in the Subject

To participate in forum discussion send your messages to:


                       Philips-ForumspamspamInetBSystems.us.com

/Christer

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* Christer Johansson --  HTH  -- * email: spam_OUTcjspam_OUTspamspam_OUTaristotle.algonet.se *
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
   >> World Wide Web: http://www.algonet.se/~cj/homepage.html <<
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


'Is a moderator listening?'
1995\05\12@200413 by Brian Boles -- Applications
picon face
Hello from Microchip!  As the commercial vendor of the stuff this
list concerns, I would like to ask your permission to make some
postings to this list.  Please respond to bbolesspam_OUTspammicrochip.com

Thanks.

1995\05\15@124544 by Coats Jack

flavicon
face
Brian Boles from Microchip,

Since this is not a moderated list, sure, you are welcome to post.

As in all unmoderated lists, we do want to know what is comming
and is happening ast microchip, but if it smacks of being too
commercial, someone will no doubt let you know :)

... glad to have you aboard ...

'Re[2]: PICLIST Digest - 15 May 1995 to 16 May 1995'
1995\05\18@134421 by tnguyen

flavicon
face
    >I'll second (or third?) that. There are a few hundred million of us
    >here in Asia that can't get onto your BBS as it would cost far too
    >much, but we can get onto Internet for US$120/year. I would be very
    >interested in some method of gaining more information on your
    >products, so some sort of Internet link or archive for your BBS
    >postings would be very helpful.

    >(I can't get to your BBS via Compuserve either for you eagle-eyed

    Hi, folks, I am the Microchip BBS Sysop, and I have been following
    this thread about Internet and BBS for some time.  Let me add a few
    comments here:

    1. Many of you may not be aware of it, but the Microchip Boston Sales
    office does sponsor a Microchip Web and ftp site.

    The Web site is: http://www.ultranet.com/microchip
    and ftp site is: ftp.ultranet.com/microchip.

    You should be able to get latest Development software (like MPASM,
    MPSIM, etc.) from these sites.

    2. The term COMPUSERVE connotes an impression that Microchip customers
    must belong to the Compuserve Information Service (CIS) membership to
    participate in the Microchip BBS. It ain't so!  Compuserve, in order
    to support its CIS customers, installs a global network and offers to
    make it available for lease, not unlike AT&T offering its
    long-distance service.  Most Microchip customers, especially overseas
    like Europe and Asia, should be able to take advantage of this global
    network and dial into Microchip BBS with a local phone call.  The
    connection procedure for overseas varies with geographical areas.  If
    you have problem, send me an e-mail and I'll see if I can help you
    out.  Remember: you don't need Compuserve membership to participate in
    the Microchip BBS.

    Since H&R Block, America's biggest tax preparation firm, owns
    Compuserve, maybe we should suggest they change the name to H&R Block
    network to eliminate the confusion :-)

    3. You want internet connection, and we hear you!! :-)

    Thang Nguyen               RemoveMEtnguyenKILLspamspam@spam@microchip.com

1995\05\19@062807 by Adrian Godwin

flavicon
face
Thang Nguyen <tnguyenspamBeGonespam.....microchip.com> writes :

>      1. Many of you may not be aware of it, but the Microchip Boston Sales
>      office does sponsor a Microchip Web and ftp site.
>
>      The Web site is: http://www.ultranet.com/microchip
>      and ftp site is: ftp.ultranet.com/microchip.

Yes, I've looked there (I think it's ftp.ultranet.com/biz/mchip) -
unfortunately, updating the site doesn't seem to be a high priority at
the moment : the pointers to device info sheets on the web page don't
work, and the application notes in the ftp directories are incomplete
(I think the popular AN589 is still missing).

This could just reflect the state of the BBS - I haven't checked these
files on there - but I get the impression that the BBS is kept rather
more current.

On the BBS, there's an improvement that could probably be made quite
easily : the implementation of Kermit that's in use seems to be the
old-fashioned one often included in BBS file transfer suites. It's
way out of date by current standards, and upgrading to a modern version
would improve transfer speeds considerably while losing none of the
reliability for which Kermit is famous. Kermit 3.14 includes a
'kermit lite' version especially configured to provide only the functions
needed for a BBS external protocol while minimising memory usage.

>
>      3. You want internet connection, and we hear you!! :-)
>

Thank you !

-adrian

'PICLIST Digest - 17 May 1995 to 18 May 1995'
1995\05\19@132351 by David Baker

flavicon
face
> > I'm developing a consumer product that needs to sense the status of the
> > phone line, I.E. determine - ring, offhook, onhook.
> >
> > Anyone have a low cost solution?
> >
>
> Do you plan to get it FCC part-68 certified and do you know how
> much that certification cost? I am also planning to build a device
> to interface to the phone lines and was wondering about all the
> legalities in doing so. If anyone knows any specifics about the
> requirements, we would like to know.

Yes, we would like to know. So far I have imported 2 telephone monitors
using PIC chips from the USA to Malaysia and tried to get them
type-approved. Both of them have failed. This is a big problem because I
have friends that want similar units but I can't legally import them in
quantities if they fail the tests. Therefore I am trying to make my own &
would like to conform to International standards.

Dave

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - KILLspamdavidspam.....baker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - spam_OUTdavidspamKILLspamgmetra.po.my |
|                          |  Fax                  - 60-3-2612870       |
|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'PIC wish list'
1995\05\19@165202 by Kalle Pihlajasaari

flavicon
face
Hi to MICROCHIP,

It seems like you guys are going to be in the forefront of little chips
for a while at least, the PIC looks to be increasing in popularity as
far as the trade literature is concerned.

Just a few things that would be realy convenient on a new design :

       A Uart as suggested (in a 20 pin dip with extra rx, tx pins )
       EEPROM technology with partitioned protection like some of them)
       Flat address space, all the tools use 8/16 bits, sacrifice the
              chip real estate and make the mem 16 bit and use the
              extra 2-4 bits for getting rid of the address latches
              and allow the goto and gosub to be regular, a must for
              efficient high level languages.
       A larger full width return stack, 32 deep say so one does not
              have to worry about what happens when there is a table
              lookup and a simultaneous interrupt servicei, also makes
              a compiler more likely to generate secure code.
       A potential data stack (as mentioned by someone already, could be
              implemented with existing opcode set) also 32 deep to
              allow for packets of data or strings to be passed also
              vital for high level languages.

Basically what I suggest and what seems to be the general concensus, the
users want the chips to perform simple tasks well so that the code is
fast to develop.  I think that the better the ports of the 'high level'
languages are the more big money is prepares to use the devices, a lot
of people have a fear of a risk processor that has a non linear address space
and cannot hide this behind a well behaved compiler.

I love the speed of the devices but would be happy with a 40MHz device :-)

Kalle
--
Kalle Pihlajasaari     RemoveMEkalleRemoveMEspamEraseMEdata.co.za
Interface Products     Box 15775, Doornfontein, 2028, South Africa
+27 (11) 402-7750      Fax: +27 (11) 402-7751

1995\05\20@182405 by Eric Smith

flavicon
face
On 19 May 1995, Kalle Pihlajasaari <KILLspamkallespamspamBeGoneDEVICE.DATA.CO.ZA> said:
> Just a few things that would be realy convenient on a new design :
...
> A larger full width return stack, 32 deep say so one does not
...
> A potential data stack (as mentioned by someone already, could be

I can understand (and agree with) the desire for a data stack, but why does
everybody keep saying they want a really deep return stack?  I've written many
PIC programs for both the 5x and the 6x/7x/8x parts.  While I've often had to
go through contortions to make my code work on the 5x, I have yet to need
more than six of the eight levels available on the 6x/7x/8x, including some
non-trivial interrupt processing.  I'd really like to see some examples of PIC
code that need more than eight levels.

I'd personally much rather see extra transistors thrown at a data stack or a
second FSR and IND (like the 17C42) than more return stack I don't need and
won't use.

On the other hand, since the return stack couldn't be needed in the same
instruction cycle as a data stack access*, it could be turned into a combined
data/return stack and made deeper.

Cheers,
Eric

* except perhaps in the case of interrupts, but I wouldn't mind if it took
 one extra cycle to push the PC.  Since the current 14-bit core is broken in
 this regard anyhow (interrupting an instruction that changes PCL will push
 the wrong return address), this would actually be a win if it fixed the
 problem.

'Microchip is Listening !'
1995\05\22@200146 by BBoles

flavicon
face
    Someone asked if Microchip is "out there".  Well, yes, from time to
    time we are...

    But we are always listening.  So far, I have compiled more than 25
    postings for product ideas/improvements.  We have also noted some
    interesting trends.  Naturally, we cannot say which ones we will
    actually work on because we never know who else is on the line ;-)

    TTYL, Brian Boles.                      bbolesspamspammicrochip.com

'Mail list questions'
1995\05\31@043459 by Nick Howard

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face
For the archive send to RemoveMElistservspamBeGonespamRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu

get piclist logxxxx

where xxxx are the month and year

index piclist will show what's available

The web archive is maintained by Brian Luehrs. The URL is:-

http://me210.stanford.edu/luehrb/pic/index.html

Hope this helps

Nick


'Please remove me from this list!'
1995\06\04@163306 by Len Umina
flavicon
face
I've tried the automated methods, but they don't appear to work, and all I
can figure is that I'm subscribed under an original alias that somehow is
not recognizable by the server.

/Len

'Waterworks List'
1995\06\27@112235 by Brian Lane

flavicon
face
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


 I have created a list for the disussion of water based
entertainment(for want of a better description). Send email to
KILLspamwaterworks-requestspamBeGonespamguetech.com with a SUBJECT of subscribe. A subject of
help will get you the mailing lists commands.

  Brian

- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
      email @spam@blaneSTOPspamspam@spam@guetech.com with 'Subject: blane-info' for PGP key

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

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onhcXYdFXH8=
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-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


'New Pic Wishlist'
1995\07\21@091604 by Kalle Pihlajasaari
flavicon
face
Hi,

A belated addition to the new products wishlist.

I would like to get two bit operated instructions that are able
to move a bit (or an inverted bit) from a given file, bit to another
given file, bit in a single instruction (without having to use 4 ops
and having a 2 cycle uncertanty in the instant the move takes place).

I would settle for a move from the status file to the file pointed to
by the FSR as I can see a shortage of bits, inversion of the bit would
be useful STATUS,b -> [FSR],b and direction from [FSR],b -> STATUS,b,i
as well.  This would
only be 2 new instructions and would make highspeed bit manipulations
possible.  Currently one needs a lot of pre-work to move one bit into
an output at an exactly timed instant.  (by a lot of prework I mean 3
ops typically to read, get a literal and mask out bits, sometimes more if
you do not know what the other bits will be)

Alternatively the moves could be from immediately declared files
5, 6, 7 & 8.

IMM,b -> [FSR],b,i
and
[FSR],b -> IMM,b,i

That would be 2+3+3+1 bits of literal a total of 9 which should be
possible to sneak in to the opcodes on a 14 bit PIC.

This would also be useful for high speed interrupts.

A 50 MHz PIC would also be cool, C54 or C74 would be sufficient.

Cheers folks
--
Kalle Pihlajasaari     kallespamBeGonespamspamBeGonedata.co.za
Interface Products     Box 15775, Doornfontein, 2028, South Africa
+27 (11) 402-7750      Fax: +27 (11) 402-7751

1995\07\24@070257 by eder Ferlemann

flavicon
face
Hi at the piclist,


To my opinion the interruptresponse time is prolonged unneccessarily
by saving the flags and working file (the trick with SWAP .. there
is an application note about it...)
I don't know if somebody has already requested the instruction (or
Microchip has even announced it):

I would like to see a single instruction to push and pop both
registers in a device like the 16C84 or 16C71.

(Or even better (though maybe not easy to implement):
The optimum would be kind of REFFIEWF which restores the registers
in a single instruction when returning from interrupt.
And the Flags and W File already saved
when the PIC starts executing at 004 (the interrupt adress))

Bye

Frieder







----
; Frieder Ferlemann
; Institut fuer Umweltphysik
; Im Neuenheimer Feld 366, Zi 410
; D-69120 Heidelberg
; Tel.: 06221 563385 oder 563334
; Fax:  06221 563405
; Email: spamBeGoneFEspamuphys1.uphys.uni-heidelberg.de
;
; To be scanned by BundesNachrichtenDienst: Embargo, G3, Police

'New Pic Wishlist 2'
1995\07\24@093918 by eder Ferlemann

flavicon
face
Hi at the piclist,

I don't know if somebody has already requested the instruction (or
Microchip has even announced it):

To my opinion the interrupt response time is prolonged unneccessarily
by saving the flags and working file (the trick with SWAP .. there
is an application note about it...)

I would like to have a single instruction to push and pop both
registers in a device like the 16C84 or 16C71.

(Or even better (though maybe not easy to implement):
The optimum would be kind of REFFIEWF which restores the registers
in a single instruction and returning from interrupt.
If Flags and W File were already saved
when the PIC starts executing at 004 (the interrupt adress)
one could cut response time even further)

Bye

Frieder







----
; Frieder Ferlemann
; Institut fuer Umweltphysik
; Im Neuenheimer Feld 366, Zi 410
; D-69120 Heidelberg
; Tel.: 06221 563385 oder 563334
; Fax:  06221 563405
; Email: spam_OUTFESTOPspamspamuphys1.uphys.uni-heidelberg.de
;
; To be scanned by BundesNachrichtenDienst: Embargo, G3, Police

1995\07\24@235008 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Frieder Ferlemann <RemoveMEFEspamspamUPHYS1.UPHYS.UNI-HEIDELBERG.DE> wrote:

>To my opinion the interrupt response time is prolonged unneccessarily
>by saving the flags and working file (the trick with SWAP .. there
>is an application note about it...)
>
>I would like to have a single instruction to push and pop both
>registers in a device like the 16C84 or 16C71.
>
>(Or even better (though maybe not easy to implement):
> The optimum would be kind of REFFIEWF which restores the registers
> in a single instruction and returning from interrupt.

Frieder:

Or you could do what I do, Frieder... My current 16C71 project has a
115-instruction Interrupt Service Routine that affects neither the W
nor the Status registers.

-Andy

--
Andrew Warren - TakeThisOuTfastfwdspamspamRemoveMEix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California

'Help, Problems with listserv'
1995\07\26@110957 by Erik Hermann

flavicon
face
Hi.

I have same problems with this mailing-list.

Whenever I write to 'KILLspamPICLISTspamspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU', an error message returns,
but the message is propperly posted to this list.

What's going wrong ?

Erik

'NEW! Parallax BASIC Stamp Mailing List'
1995\07\26@131938 by Tom Mornini

flavicon
face
Parallax, Inc. is now sponsoring a BASIC Stamp mailing
list. This list is intended for discussion of the Parallax
BASIC Stamp products, peripherals and derivative products,
the programming of those items, and hardware integration.

To subscribe to the "stamps" email list, send e-mail
to majordomoRemoveMEspamparallaxinc.com. In the body of the message,
type "subscribe stamps". You will receive a confirmation
that you are subscribed to the list at the address that
you sent the request from.

--  Tom Mornini ----------------------------------------------------------
--  Parallax, Inc.  ------------------------------------------------------
--  Makers of really cool PIC development tools & the BASIC Stamps  ------
--  http://www.parallaxinc.com           ftp://ftp.parallaxinc.com/pub  --

'Help, Problems with listserv'
1995\07\27@002121 by First Last

flavicon
face
Erik writes:
EH>Whenever I write to 'EraseMEPICLISTSTOPspamspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU', an error message returns,
EH>but the message is propperly posted to this list.

I think the problem is some accounts/addresses on the list don't exist,
so you (and I) get an error message pointing out that those addresses
are
undeliverable.
Can some list administrator fix this?
Obviously the person at the address can't ask to be removed.

Later,  Gary Skinner

'NEW! Parallax BASIC Stamp Mailing List'
1995\07\27@202825 by Pic User

flavicon
face
We have a stamp-list already. (spam_OUTstamp-listRemoveMEspamEraseMEcybernetics.net)  Will this replace it
?
Can we bring the two together?
Thanks

Steve
----------{Original Message removed}


'Your removal from the PICLIST list'
1995\08\02@150613 by Jory Bell prichard
face
flavicon
face
Lee (et al),

Lee: you are welcome to resubscribe to the piclist.

Your removal was accidental, although (inadvertently) related to your
(imo) unpleasant posting concerning the most recent spammage on the piclist.

I just completed a mass deletion of ~30 problemmatic addresses (bounces, &c).
These were compiled from a list of bounce messages I had stored
in a particular mailbox of piclist administrative matters.

Your email was in with these, as I was intending to write to you
with my opinions concerning the appropriateness of commercial spam
products being posted to the piclist (or commercial posts at all) and
your defense of aforementioned messages.

You are correct in that we must "cope" with greed-inspired commercial
spammage which besets virtually all forms of communication. However,
this coping does not have to be the passive acceptance of whatever
is foisted upon us. I am personally in favor of aggressive measures
to keep spammage and blatant commercialism off the piclist, while
accomodating responsible postings from organisations with something
relevant to the list topic (such as useful information from Microchip,
Parallax, etc).

At times, there are judgements calls to be made as to the appropriateness
of a particular post. I encourage those in doubt about a particular email
they wish to send to consult with me. However, this A-bomb scammer/spammer
and his drivel crearly fall outside of the realm of pic-related material
(commercial or otherwise). It clearly has no place on the piclist.

I hope soon to be able to restrict list postings to members of the list.
This will allow us to avoid the random spam, and to avoid even more
determined spam-efforts, by having the list subscription process entail
an agreement to certain reasonable terms of posting, etc (see my previous
spam warnings). Until that time, I send nasty email to every spammer, as
well as their service provider (and their provider's provider), and those
listed by the nic as responsible for the domain name used, etc. I also
forward all spammage info to various blacklists, etc.

[unmount soapbox]

-jory bell

{Quote hidden}

1995\08\02@174314 by Jory Bell prichard

face
flavicon
face
Rereading what I wrote, I realised it might not be clear that I had
accidentally unsubscribed Lee, as his mail was mixed in with admin
deletions. I had intended to just send him a note, but accidentally
added him to the list of bad addresses. Hope that's clear.

I have never removed a user due to content, and hopefully never will.

-jory bell

:Your email was in with these, as I was intending to write to you
:with my opinions concerning the appropriateness of commercial spam
:products being posted to the piclist (or commercial posts at all) and
:your defense of aforementioned messages.

'Spammer Blacklist (was: "Jeff 'Deathwish' Slaton")'
1995\08\16@210733 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
David Warman <EraseMEdjw2RemoveMEspamUKC.AC.UK> asked:

>Is there a 'spammer blacklist' mailing list?

   YES!  math-http://www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/BL/blacklist.html

   -Andy

--
Andrew Warren - spamfastfwd.....spamspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California

'Pic list traffic'
1995\08\17@015110 by Przemek Klosowski

flavicon
face
After reading recent traffic on PIClist it occurred to me that maybe
we should revisit the issue of newsgroup vs. mailing list.  Recently
there has been a slate of me-too posts in response to someone's
disassembler announcement; also, it was established couple more times
that self-timing features of EEPROM in 16c84 make it easier to program
it from a serial port of a PC. I propose that if we had a newsgroup,
people would be able to see more context of the traffic, and would not
be as likely to ask the same question again and again (typical
expiration time for articles is three weeks; typically FAQs are posted
about that often, so they are always available).

Also, there is a more visible distinction between posting an article
to the whole newsgroup and sending a private e-mail reply to the
article's author.

I don't really see any downside of a newsgroup; it used to be that
newsgroups were harder to get, but with the present on-line access
revolution I'd think this is no longer the case.

On the other hand, all those nuisances can be avoided by simply
observing etiquette (separating list and personal e-mail, consulting
list archive before asking a question, etc).

       Just a thought

                       przemek

1995\08\18@201831 by Dan Judd

flavicon
face
I second the motion for moving to a newgroup.

>After reading recent traffic on PIClist it occurred to me that maybe
>we should revisit the issue of newsgroup vs. mailing list.  Recently
>there has been a slate of me-too posts in response to someone's
>disassembler announcement; also, it was established couple more times
>that self-timing features of EEPROM in 16c84 make it easier to program
>it from a serial port of a PC. I propose that if we had a newsgroup,
>people would be able to see more context of the traffic, and would not
>be as likely to ask the same question again and again (typical
>expiration time for articles is three weeks; typically FAQs are posted
>about that often, so they are always available).
>

Regards,Dan Judd
------------------------------------------------------------------
Judd Communications

Voice:    (801)467-2313
E-Mail:   djuddspam_OUTspam@spam@xmission.com
Web Page: http://www.xmission.com/~djudd/juddco1.htm

1995\08\19@061500 by Jaco Swart

flavicon
face
Moving to a newsgroup? Yes, let's!

In fact, we have talked about starting a PIC newsgroup for Gauteng
here at Technikon Pretoria.

Greetings, Jaco Swart
 .....jswartspamspam.....Elise.ee.techpta.ac.za                              we are
 Dept. of Digital Technology      Tel 27-12-318-5020     PowerWielding
 Technikon Pretoria, RSA          Fax 27-12-318-5688      Technology!

1995\08\20@162603 by Brian Read

flavicon
face
Tell me again what moving to a news group will buy us?
I see the same spamming and crap posts that go on forever
on news groups as on this list. Changing just to change is
not justification.

Convince me!
Brian

1995\08\20@174027 by Paul Picot

flavicon
face
On Sun, 20 Aug 1995, Brian Read wrote:

> Tell me again what moving to a news group will buy us?
...
> Convince me!

I'm afraid I have to agree with Brian.  There is a lot to be said for the
mailing-list format, namely that the signal-to-noise ratio is much higher
than it would be in a newsgroup, and that the spam and garbage posts are
actually much lower than we could expect in a newsgroup.

If some feel we are missing out on some spontaneous input from somebody
not on the list, I think that could be adressed by periodic postings in
relevant newsgroups, indicating the existence of this list.

As for the spam on this list, I agree it is offensive, but at the risk of
offending some people, may I point out that 90% of the traffic generated
by spam is generated from people already on the list, this message included!

If you see spam, DON'T RESPOND TO THE LIST.  You can be certain that the
perpetrator will never see it, and you will just further annoy people.

#belated vent off

-Paul

1995\08\20@184411 by Lee Jones

flavicon
face
I'm for keeping it a mailing list (not a news group).

1995\08\21@030126 by Lester

flavicon
picon face
Hi,

an extract from a resent mail:

<< There is a lot to be said for the
mailing-list format, namely that the signal-to-noise ratio is much higher
than it would be in a newsgroup, and that the spam and garbage posts are
actually much lower than we could expect in a newsgroup. >>

for what its worth I have to agree, if this mail list were a news group, I
would post advertisemnets from time to time, they would be in context, but
they would still offend many people.

This is a private mail list, therefore I would not even think of sending  a
commercial advertisement here.

Think about it.............I am stating fact, it may be distasteful to some
but thats life!

there are plenty more out there even worse than me.

I subcribe to many lists and this one is one of the cleanest. Spammers are
like spoilt little children, so lets treat them with the contempt they
deserve.


Best regards Lester.



--------------------------------------------------
Crownhill Associates Limited
P.O. Box 845
Waterbeach
Cambridge
CB5 9JS

Tel: +44 (0) 956 700017
BBS: +44 (0) 956 700018 (subscriber access only)
Fax: +44 (0) 1223 441645

Email: LesterKILLspamspamEraseMEbannold.demon.co.uk

1995\08\21@062503 by David Eastlake

flavicon
face
Hi,

I agree with Brian, moving to a news group won't solve the spaming problem.

I seem to remember that in the US people have sucessfully charged companies
who phone them up trying to sell stuff. The way it worked if I remember was:

You have you name down on a list of people who didn't want to be bugged by
sales people phoning up.
By a company phoneing you they were using Your telephone which YOU paid for
to do thier business. Similar idea to stealing electricy.
The companies had to pay out 500 dollars each time they phoned someone who
had specifically asked not to be phoned.

I'm sure the precident would apply to computers and spaming too.

David
EraseMEdj-eastl@spam@spam@spam@uwe.ac.uk

1995\08\21@093857 by Lou Sortman

flavicon
face
On Sun, 20 Aug 1995, Brian Read wrote:

> Tell me again what moving to a news group will buy us?
> I see the same spamming and crap posts that go on forever
> on news groups as on this list. Changing just to change is
> not justification.
>
> Convince me!

Threading newsreaders and kill files.
You could kill the entire thread of spam or even kill
articles that talk about atomic bomb blueprints in all caps if
you want.

Even the good stuff clogs up my mailbox.  I'd rather run my
news program to read it.

'Stop the list, I wanna get off'
1995\08\21@111643 by Jorj Bauer

flavicon
face
Okay. I've sent a SIGNOFF PICLIST message to the listserv about a
half-dozen times now. The first time, I got a response that my address
didn't match; the other 5 times I've gotten nothing.

The listserv won't let me REVIEW PICLIST so that I can tell what address
it really wants, either. I've tried e-mailing the supposed owner of the
list, and have heard nothing.

Will someone *please* get me off of this list?

Thanks,
Jorj

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jorj Bauer                                  |   @spam@gbauerspamspamKILLspameniac.seas.upenn.edu
CETS Network Operations                     |         200 S. 33rd St.
School of Engineering and Applied Science   |   Moore Building, Room 166-A
University of Pennsylvania                  |     Philadelphia, PA 19104
http://binky.seas.upenn.edu/~gbauer         |         (215) 898-0575
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

'Newsgroup vs email list'
1995\08\21@112055 by Don Wills

flavicon
face
Hello.  I read piclist via the piclist-digest.  I have learned a lot from it.

I firmly believe that piclist would be harmed by moving it to a newsgroup.
Here are the negatives of a newsgroup:

 Delays of posting - sometimes many hours or more
 Possible missing messages when on vacation (my news server keeps
   messages less than a week)
 Lower quality of postings
 More junk (spam) postings
 No digest capability

Please leave piclist the way it is.

Don Wills
Subject, Wills & Company

'mailing list vs. newsgroup'
1995\08\21@112510 by Przemek Klosowski

flavicon
face
I have got mostly negative reactions to the newsgroup idea, in the
sense that about 4-5 people wrote saying that they don't want change,
and 2 people wrote that they aren't enthusiastic but wouldn't mind. No
definite positives; the people have spoken and the change seems to be
an idea whose time is not here (yet?).

BTW, there is already some PIC traffic on comp.arch.embedded, a
newsgroup dealing with embedded micros (mostly 8051 and 6811).

                       przemek klosowski (spamBeGoneprzemekRemoveMEspamEraseMEnist.gov)
                       Reactor Division (bldg. 235), E111
                       National Institute of Standards and Technology
                       Gaithersburg, MD 20899,      USA

                       (301) 975 6249

'Pic list traffic'
1995\08\21@124140 by PETE KLAMMER

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On Sun, 20 Aug 1995, Paul Picot wrote:

> On Sun, 20 Aug 1995, Brian Read wrote:
>
> > Tell me again what moving to a news group will buy us?
> ...
> > Convince me!
>
> I'm afraid I have to agree with Brian.  There is a lot to be said for the
> mailing-list format, namely that the signal-to-noise ratio is much higher
> than it would be in a newsgroup, and that the spam and garbage posts are
> actually much lower than we could expect in a newsgroup.
>
> If some feel we are missing out on some spontaneous input from somebody
> not on the list, I think that could be adressed by periodic postings in
> relevant newsgroups, indicating the existence of this list.

The simplest alternative I am aware of would be a ``moderated''
mailing-list, wherein someone with authority has to screen postings before
they get remailed to members.  This is a burden on that ``someone'', and a
delaying hobble on member postings.  Maybe if the moderating authority could
be shared among several ``someones'', in several timezones, but I'm
speculating on technology that isn't just lying around yet.

Members-only posting (shades of CompuServe ``join''!) might mitigate the
problem, but by how much for how long?  Could a spammer masquerade as some
real member, or join under false pretenses?  Such a mechanism could be a
deterent, but it's hard to see how to give it any real ``teeth''.

I hope the Internet gurus or the NetNews gurus are working on this.

> As for the spam on this list, I agree it is offensive, but at the risk of
> offending some people, may I point out that 90% of the traffic generated
> by spam is generated from people already on the list, this message included!
>
> If you see spam, DON'T RESPOND TO THE LIST.  You can be certain that the
> perpetrator will never see it, and you will just further annoy people.

I partially agree; it's like responding to terrorists like the Unabomber,
except that spammers are (usually) in it for the money.  So if you can do
something that hits them in their pocketbooks, do that.  To me, that
includes making it somehow more trouble than it is worth.

But I can't agree, if this is what you mean, that if we just ignore it, it
will go away (or, it's a small annoyance, don't waste time fretting over
it).  These guys are trying to score bucks, and I suspect (without evidence,
I admit) they are getting enough payoff to continue and expand.  (Can someone
in ``Albqu.'' check out whether Jeff Slaton has ordered a new Lexus lately?)

> #belated vent off
>
> -Paul

Peter F. Klammer                                       RemoveMEPKlammerKILLspamspamRemoveMEACM.Org
w:(303)773-7411 h:(303)233-9485   EEPROM: mere bridge techology to FRAM
11221 West 27th Place       Learn about League for Programming Freedom!
Lakewood, Colorado 80215          by sending email to: TakeThisOuTlpfspamuunet.uu.net

'Newsgroup vs list'
1995\08\21@125843 by Jory Bell prichard

face
flavicon
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> Back to PICLIST things, I suppose this an example of the sort
> of spammage we can expect as a mailing list.  On the other hand,
> the overall S/N is pretty reasonable.

When the list moves to our new site, the S/N should get better (at least
WRT spammage, since we will have better control over who posts... and can
at least limit it to list subscribers).

> My main concern is that propagation would be slower if this were
> a newsgroup.  We would probably also get a lot more totally irrelevant
> junk (just opinion, since we'd be open to more cross-posting).

In addition to slower propagation, there is the archive access issue. I
currently arhcive a good portion of the piclist postings, and refer back to
them at times. A newsgroup would lack this convenience...

> Out of interest, how many people receive this list anyway?  If there
> are lots of  people here, then perhaps it would be better to use news.
> If the mailing-list server can cope with the load, I'd prefer to stick
> to the present format.  Would any of the present readership be unable
> to read this list as a newsgroup?

There are approximately 700 current subscribers to the piclist.
Some people have noted that the review command does not provide the
list of subscribers.. this is a priovacy feature to avoid advertisers
getting a handy distillation of a targeted market... and to generally
further the interests of privacy.

FWIW, it is currently difficult for me to read news, and has been for the
last several months (Although this should change soon).

> Finally, if this list is moved to news, where should it go?  (This
> may have some bearing on it's accessibility to other users.)

We would have to make a RFD (request for discussion) to create a newsgroup
in any of the main news hierarchies (the big 7?). Then after approximately
1 month of discussion in the group news.groups, we would make a CFV (call
for votes) and trhere would be an approximately 1 month lnog voting period.
Both the CFV and RFD are posted to news.announce.newgroups, as well as
crossposted to relevant other groups and email lists.

It is triviasl to simply create a group in, for example, the alt. hierarchy,
but these are not carried at many sites...

Personally, if the list concensus were to go for a newsgroup, I would
be willing to write and submit the RFD, etc... but I would eventually
vote against the newsgroup if it got to the CFV.

-jory

'Newsgroup vs email list'
1995\08\21@141114 by Roger Books

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face
>
> Hello.  I read piclist via the piclist-digest.  I have learned a lot from it.
>
> I firmly believe that piclist would be harmed by moving it to a newsgroup.
> Here are the negatives of a newsgroup:
>
>   Delays of posting - sometimes many hours or more
>   Possible missing messages when on vacation (my news server keeps
>     messages less than a week)
>   Lower quality of postings
>   More junk (spam) postings
>   No digest capability
>
> Please leave piclist the way it is.
>

On the positive side:

 Threaded newsreaders
 killfiles
 doesn't DEMAND immediate attention.
 While the overall posting level may stay or be about the same, the posting
   level from those who are competant will go up as they won't feel guilty
   about large posts to a newsgroup.
 less chance of killing the /var/spool/mail directory, not a biggy for those
   of us on Unix boxes, but a PC may be a different story.

Roger

1995\08\21@190528 by darren

flavicon
picon face
In message  <spamBeGone9508211852.aa24395KILLspamspamTakeThisOuTpunt2.demon.co.uk>> PICLIST%EraseMEMITVMA.BITNET.....spamKILLspampsuvm.psu.edu writes:

> I firmly believe that piclist would be harmed by moving it to a newsgroup.

Why not have the best of both worlds?

1) create a new *moderated* newsgroup
2) set the moderaters postbox alias to /dev/nul (to prevent posting to it)
3) subscribe the piclist via a mail2news server to that newsgroup
       IIRC spamalt.piclistspammail2news.demon.co.uk on our newsserver.

Then, people who want to read the piclist as a newsgroup, can do so, but
to post to it, they must continue via email as before, those who want
to stay in the mailing list are unaffected.

Pests trying to spam the ng cannot do so as their messages go into the
bitbucket.

I'm not sure what the people in alt.config (or wherever) will think of this
though....... /dev/nul as a moderaters mbox, tut tut tut :)

Just my 2p worth....

--
Regards,

Darren
darrenSTOPspamspamnitebeat.demon.co.uk

'PLEASE remove me from this list...'
1995\08\22@132107 by Jorj Bauer

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face
I've mailed the listserv again, and of course was told again that I don't
have access to see the list participants, and that I can't be removed
from the list because I'm not on the list.

Of course, I get the seven million spams per day in my mailbox, proving
that I am on the list.

Please, someone, get me off of the list.

Thanks,
Jorj

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Jorj Bauer                                  |   gbauerSTOPspamspamKILLspameniac.seas.upenn.edu
CETS Network Operations                     |         200 S. 33rd St.
School of Engineering and Applied Science   |   Moore Building, Room 166-A
University of Pennsylvania                  |     Philadelphia, PA 19104
http://binky.seas.upenn.edu/~gbauer         |         (215) 898-0575
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

'Relies to PICLIST'
1995\08\25@024645 by nino.benci

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picon face
Excuse the following, just random thoughts.

When replying to posts, unless they are of true value to the members
of the PICLIST please ensure that you reply to the original poster. I
find it ammusing that threads run for days (even weeks occasionally)
and that after the nth (n being >4 generally) reply the thread
nolonger has any relevance to the original question. This would
reduce the nuisance of sifting through 20-40 items every two days
roughly. Is this reasonable. If you think that this is not reasonable,
please relpy directly to me and NOT THE LIST.

Nino
Benci************************************************************************
* Antonio (Nino) Benci                       *                         *
* Chief Technical Officer                    *                         *
* Monash University - Dept of Physics        *         I think         *
* Wellington Rd, Clayton. 3168               *      Therefore I am     *
* Victoria, Australia.                       *          I eat          *
* TEL - 61 3 9905 3649, FAX - 61 3 9905 3637 *   Therefore I excrete   *
* EMAIL - @spam@nino.benci.....spamspamsci.monash.edu.au       *                         *
************************************************************************

'PICLIST Digest - 27 Aug 1995 to 28 Aug 1995'
1995\08\30@150001 by Gene Silvernail

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face
>
>Date:    Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:25:00 EET
>From:    Norman Fick <spamnfick.....spam.....AZTEC.CO.ZA>
>Subject: Trig Functions on PIC16C74
>
>I need to do a SIN and COS function on the 16C74. Does anyone know about a
>routine out there (I don't feel up to re-inventing the wheel!!).
>
>A question for you guys who know-it-all. What are the
>dissadvantages/advantages of using a PIC (in general) as opposed to using
>the Motorola HC11 mcu. I am quite familiar with the PIC's, but have heard
>many good reports about the HC11's. (Please try to be unbiased in your
>answer :-) )
>
>Thanks a stack
>
>Norman
>
Norman,

Ditto for all the others comments.

The major gripe I've got against the pic parts is the fact that MicroChip
has not provided any
thing to compare to the HC11 in regards of direct access secondary storage
memory, with the
exception of the 17Cxx.

The Pic 74 series has the ability to go up against the HC11 in many areas
with one major problem. Where do you store
transient data. 192 bytes of RAM space forget it, in a moderate design a
large percentage of it is
taken up by the application. Don't by into Microchips endurance sales pitch
on their EEPROM as a
replacement for RAM. Tt will not work in situations that require moderate
Read/Write/Read cycle counts.

It amazes me that a company that has made the big boys at Motorola come out
with the 99 dollar
development system for the HC05 and a whack at winning a Jeep to boot,
doesn't get more serious about going
after their big dog the HC11.

Ability wise, the PICs with the exception of the 17Cxx, is closer to an HC05
then a HC11.
The PICS do scream compared to the HC11/HC05 but with limited lung capacity.

Gene P. Silvernail
Belhaven applied Technology


'Minimalist pic programmer'
1995\09\02@044825 by P.Trezise
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picon face
I have been following the thread on building an RS232 pic programmer
and the resulting "bootstrap problem" for those who dont want to use
and IBM PC.
How feasable would it be to toggle a program into a 16C84 by hand
using switches (like they did with computers in the old days!)
I realize this would be extremely tedious but the challenge would be
to write the smallest program that could make sense of RS232 and use
this to program another pic with a more sophisticated program.

-Paul Trezise.

'piclist digest'
1995\09\07@081619 by Siegfried Grob

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face
Hello to all who want to archive all the piclist traffic themselves:

Here I quote a part of the mail, every new subscriber gets after successful
subscription to the piclist:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...

Please  save this  message  for future  reference, especially  if  you are  not
familiar with LISTSERV. This might look like  a waste of disk space now, but in
6 months you will be glad you  saved this information when you realize that you
cannot  remember what  are the  lists you  are subscribed  to, or  what is  the
command to  leave the list to  avoid filling up  your mailbox while you  are on
vacations.

...

Contributions sent to this list are  automatically archived. You can get a list
of  the available  archive  files  by sending  an  "INDEX  PICLIST" command  to
LISTSERV.....spamMITVMA.BITNET (or  KILLspamLISTSERVspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU). You can then  order these
files with a "GET PICLIST LOGxxxx" command, or using LISTSERV's database search
facilities. Send an "INFO DATABASE" command for more information on the latter.

...

More information  on LISTSERV commands can  be found in the  LISTSERV reference
card,  which  you  can  retrieve  by  sending  an  "INFO  REFCARD"  command  to
spam_OUTLISTSERVspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.BITNET (or .....LISTSERV.....spamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to summarize:
send GET PICLIST LOG9509 to spam_OUTLISTSERVTakeThisOuTspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU, wait some seconds and you
have what you want.

Siggi

'subscribe piclist'
1995\09\08@040259 by nigelg

flavicon
picon face
subscribe piclist



         /----------------------------------------------------------\
         | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : EraseMEnigelgspamBeGonespamKILLspamlpilsley.demon.co.uk |
         | Lower Pilsley   |                                        |
         | Chesterfield    |                                        |
         | England         |                                        |
         \----------------------------------------------------------/

'New list server available'
1995\09\08@162255 by Bruce Perens

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Jory,

If you wish, I will serve the PIC list from my SmartList server, which
can discriminate against non-subscribers, thus filtering out most spam.
I serve a 500+ member list and a few smaller ones now, and run them on a
12-processor SGI Onyx with T1 to Internet. I have the following
list-submission policy for all of the lists I serve:

       Thanks

       Bruce Perens

MAILING LIST ADVERTISING POLICY

This policy is intended to fight mailing-list "spamming".

The PIC mailing lists accept commercial advertising for payment. We
offer a fee waiver if you can show us the cancelled check for a $1000
(U.S.) or more donation to the Free Software Foundation. One donation
per advertisement, please. If you don't wish to donate, simply post
your advertisement to the list, and the operator of the mailing lists
will bill $1999 (U.S). The list operator will donate this amount, minus
the expense of collecting it, to FSF. Please note that the lists are
distributed automaticaly - messages are generally not read or checked
in any way before they are distributed.

By the act of posting your advertisement you agree to accept
responsibility for the fee, you agree to indemnify the mailing-list
operator against any legal claims from you or others in connection with
your advertisement, and you agree to pay any legal and business
expenses incurred in collecting late payment. Our liability to you is
limited to a good-faith effort to deliver your message.

Reduced rates and/or waiver of fee are available for PIC-related
advertisements. You must consult the mailing-list operator in advance
of posting for any reduction or fee waiver.

                             * * *
--
-- Attention Radio Amateurs: For information on "Linux for Hams",
-- read the WWW page http://www.hams.com/LinuxForHams,
-- or e-mail the word "help" to RemoveMEinfospamBeGonespamspamhams.com

'===> List of over 1,'
1995\09\30@212949 by Patricia Loring

flavicon
face
---> Please note:  if you have requested our free catalgoue by email in the
last 48 hrs and have not gotten a reply yet, *please* re-send the below
form in.   We were swamped with requests for our catalogue and we now have
increased our capacity to respond to more inquiries.  We are very sorry if
you were one of the few people who did not get a copy of the  catalogue,
but if you will take a moment to re-fill out the below form *completely*,
we will send the catalogue back by email within 1 business day of our
receipt of your request.  Please note that forms not completely filled in
cannot be acknowledged at all due to the tremendous response we are
getting.


Hi fellow 'netters,

My name is Patricia Loring and I recently started using a magazine
subscription club in the USA that has a FREE 1 yr. magazine subscription
deal with your first paid order- and I have been very pleased with them.
They have over 1,500 different USA titles that they can ship to any country
on a subscription basis.   As for computer magazines from the USA, they
more of a selection than I ever knew even existed.  They have magazines for
most every area of interest in their list of 1,500 titles.

At the bottom of this list is a list sampling of many of the titles that
they sell.  They can *all* be shipped to any country!

Within the USA, for their USA members, they are cheaper than all their
competitors and even the publishers themselves.  This is their price
guarantee.

Overseas, on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to one-half
of what the newstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines.  On some
titles they are as little as one-tenth of what the newstands charge.  They
feel that mgazines should not be a luxury overseas.   In the USA, people
buy magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few minutes
or hours.  They are so cheap in the USA!   Well, this company would like to
make it the same way for their overseas members.  They are also cheaper
than all their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the
publishers themselves!   This is their price guarantee.  Around one-half
their business comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new
members who only speak limited English as a 2nd language.

Their prices are so cheap because they deal direct with each publisher and
cut-out all the middlemen.


They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 500K-big and
juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form below.  It has lists of
all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken down by
categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles that
they sell.

Please do not email me as I am just a happy customer and a *busy* student.
I don't have time to even complete my thesis in time, let alone run my
part-time software business!  Email them directly at:
@spam@sallyengspamspamixc.net


*------------cut here-----------------------------------------------*
REQUEST FOR MORE INFO:  please copy this section only and email to:
                                       TakeThisOuTsallyengKILLspamspam@spam@ixc.net

Name:
Internet email address:
Smail home address:
City-State-Zip:
Country:
Work Tel. #:
Work Fax #:
Home Tel. #:
Home Fax #:
Name of USA mags you currently get on the newstand or in the store:
Name of USA mags you currently get on a subscription basis, through the mail:
Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you:
Catalogue format desired from below 2 choices (list "1" or "2"):
(1. 19-part email message;    2.  atttached file by email)

{{{Note-  19-part email can be received by anyone with any computer.
Attached file format may not be for you:  it is sent as an uncompressed
500K file formatted in Microsoft World on a Mac;  if you don't use
Microsoft Word on a Mac - you will have to know how to convert into a
usable text format.  We cannot help you with this.   If in doubt, we
suggest you go with the universally acceptable 19-part email message.  You
can always manually spend a few minutes pasting the parts into one
whole.}}}

How did you hear about us (name of person who referred you or the area of
the internet that you saw us mentioned in):  Patricia Loring
093095ls
*------------cut here-----------------------------------------------*



They guarantee to beat all their competitors' prices. Sometimes they are
less than half of the next best deal I have been able to find and other
times, just a little cheaper - but I have never found a lower rate yet.
They assured me that if I ever do, they will beat it.

They have been very helpful and helped me change my address from the USA to
Finland and then back again when I moved last month.  They are very
knowledgeable about addressing mags worldwide.

They have a deal where you can get a free 1 yr. sub to a new magazine from
a special list of over 300 popular titles published in the USA.   They will
give you this free 1 yr. sub when you place your first paid order with them
to a renewal or new subscription to any of the over 1,500 different popular
USA titles they sell.

They can arrange delivery to virtually any country and I think they have
clients in around 35 or 36 countries now.  Outside the USA there is a
charge for foreign postage and handling (on both paid and freebie subs)
that varies from magazine to magazine.  I have found their staff to be very
friendly and courteous.  They even helped me with an address change when I
moved from one country to another.

The owner thinks of his service as a "club" and his clients as "members"
(even though there is no extra fee to become a member - your first purchase
automatically makes you a member) and he is real picky about who he accepts
as a new member.   When he sets you up as a new member, he himself calls
you personally on the phone to explain how he works his deal, or sometimes
he has one of his assistants call.  He is kind of quirky sometimes - he
insists on setting up new members by phone so he can say hi to everyone (I
sure wouldn't want to have his phone bills!),  but you can place future
orders (after your first order) via E-mail.

He has some really friendly young ladies working for him, who seem to know
just as much as he does about this magazine stuff.  If you live overseas,
he will even call you there, as long as you are interested, but I think he
still makes all his overseas calls on the weekends, I guess cause the long
distance rates are cheaper then.

He only likes to take new members from referrals from satisfied existing
members and he does virtually no advertising.  When I got set-up, they had
a 2-3 week waiting list for new members to be called back so that they
could join up. (Once you are an existing member, they help you immediately
when you call. )  I think they are able to get back to prospective new
members  the same day or within a few days now, as they have increased
their staff.  I am not sure about this.........but if you email the above
form to them, that is the way to get started!

They will send you some FREE info. via E-mail (the short version (around
40K) of their catalogue, or if you request it the DELUXE LONG VERSION
(around 400K-big and juicey) !)...if you fill out the form near the top of
this message.

They then send you email  that outlines how his club works and the list of
free choices that you can choose from, as well as the entire list of what
he sells;  and then they will give you a quick (3-5 minute) friendly,
no-pressure no-obligation call to explain everything to you personally and
answer all your questions.

Once you get in, you'll love them. I do.  For more info,  just fill out the
form near the top of this message and email it to:        .....sallyengRemoveMEspamixc.net


Cheers!

--
Patricia Loring


ps.  please forward a copy of this message to all your friends on the net
who you think might be interested in it!  It is a great deal!  If you join
and then they join after you, you will earn a free 1 yr. subscription for
each new person you get to join after you join!

pss.  Below is a list of some of the titles they have available for
shipment on a subscription basis to *all* countries:

ACCENT
ACCENT ON LIVING
ACCESSORIES
ACTION COMICS
ACTION PURSUIT GAMES
ADIRONDACK LIFE
ADVENTURE WEST
ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN (COMIC)
ADVERTISING AGE
ADVOCATE
AFRICAN PROFILES INTERNATIONAL
AIR CLASSICS
AIR COMBAT
AIR FORCE TIMES
AIR & SPACE
ALASKA
ALASKA MEN
ALASKA OUTDOORS
ALBUQUERQUE MONTHLY
ALFRED HITCHCOCK MYSTERY
ALLURE
ALOHA
AMATEUR RADIO TECHNICAL JOURNAL
AMAZING SPIDERMAN (COMIC)
AMERCAN HEALTH
AMERICA'S CIVIL WAR
AMERICAN ARTIST
AMERICAN ASTROLOGY
AMERICAN BABY
AMERICAN BABY
AMERICAN  CAGE BIRD
AMERICAN COLLECTOR'S JOURNAL
AMERICAN COTTON GROWER
AMERICAN COWBOY
AMERICAN COWBOY
AMERICAN DEMOGRAPHICS
AMERICAN FORESTS
AMERICAN FRUIT GROWER
AMERICAN HANDGUNNER
AMERICAN HEALTH
AMERICAN HERITAGE (HARD COVER)
AMERICAN HERITAGE INVENTION & TECHNOLOGY
AMERICAN HERITAGE (SOFT COVER)
AMERICAN HISTORY ILLUSTRATED
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF MATERNAL / CHILD NURSING
AMERICAN JOURNAL OF NURSING
AMERICAN LIQUIDATION MONTHLY
AMERICAN PHOTO
AMERICAN SALON
AMERICAN SPECTATOR
AMERICAN SQUARE DANCE
AMERICAN VEGETABLE GROWER
AMERICAN VISIONS
AMERICAN WOODWORKER
AMERICANA
AMERICAS (ENGLISH)
AMERICAS (SPANISH)
AMIGA WORLD
ANALOG SCIENCE FICTION / FACT
ANTIQUE TRADER WEEKLY
ANTIQUES
ANTIQUING AMERICA
AQUARIUM FISH
ARCHAEOLOGY
ARCHITECTURAL DIGEST
ARCHITECTURE
ARIEL
ARMY TIMES
ART & ANTIQUES
ART & ANTIQUES INVESTMENT REPORT
ART IN AMERICA
ARTIST'S MAGAZINE
ARTNEWS
ARTS &  ACTIVITIES
ASIAN SOURCES (COMPUTER PRODUCTS)
ASIAN SOURCES (ELECTRONICS)
ASIAN SOURCES (GIFTS & HOME)
ASIAN SOURCES (HARDWARE)
ASIMOV'S SCIENCE FICTION
ASTROLOGY
ATLANTA
ATLANTA HOMES & LIFESTYLES
ATLANTIC MONTHLY
AUDIO
AUDIO / VIDEO INTERIORS
AUDUBON
AUTO RACING DIGEST
AUTOMOBILE
AUTOMOTIVE NEWS
AUTOMUNDO
AUTOTRONICS
AUTOWEEK
AVENGERS (COMIC)
AVENGERS WEST COAST (COMIC)
AVIATION HERITAGE
BACK STAGE
BACKPACKER
BACKSTRETCH
BALTIMORE
BANK NOTE REPORTER
BARBIE (COMIC)
BARBIE FASHION BOOK (COMIC)
BARBIE MAGAZINE
BARELY LEGAL
BARTER NEWS
BASEBALL CARD PRICE GUIDE
BASEBALL CARDS MAGAZINE
BASEBALL DIGEST
BASEBALL WEEKLY (USA TODAY)
BASKETBALL DIGEST
BASKETBALL WEEKLY
BASS PLAYER
BASS & WALLEYE BOATS
BASSIN'
BATMAN (COMIC)
BEAVIS & BUTTHEAD
BERKSHIRE
BEST RECIPES
BETTER HOMES & GARDENS
BEVERAGE WORLD
BEVERAGE WORLD
BIBLE REVIEW
BIBLICAL ARCHAEOLOGY REVIEW
BICYCLE GUIDE
BICYCLING
BIG BEAUTIFUL WOMAN (BBW)
BIRD TALK
BIRDER'S WORLD
BLACK AXE (COMIC)
BLACK BELT
BLACK COLLEGIAN
BLACK ELEGANCE
BLACK ENTERPRISE
BLOOD HORSE
BLUE & GOLD ILLUSTRATED
BOARDROOM REPORTS
BOATING
BOATING WORLD
BODY - MIND - SPIRIT
BON APPETIT
BOSTON MAGAZINE
BOTTOM LINE / PERSONAL
BOW & ARROW
BOW & ARROW HUNTING
BOW HUNTING WORLD
BOWHUNTER
BOWHUNTING
BOWHUNTING WORLD
BOWLING DIGEST
BOWMASTERS
BOXING ILLUSTRATED
BOY'S LIFE
BRIDAL GUIDE
BRIDES
BRITISH CAR
BRITISH HERITAGE
BROADCASTING
BUCKHUNTERS DIGEST
BUENHOGAR
BUSINESS PUBLISHING
BUSINESS START-UPS
BUSINESS WEEK
BUZZ (TALK OF LOS ANGELES)
BYTE
CABLE (COMIC)
CALIFORNIA JOURNAL
CAMCORDER
CAMERA & DARKROOM
CAMPUS LIFE
CANDY INDUSTRY
CANOE
CAPPER'S
CAPTAIN AMERICA (COMIC)
CAR AUDIO & ELECTRONICS
CAR COLLECTOR & CAR CLASSICS
CAR CRAFT
CAR & DRIVER
CAR STEREO REVIEW
CARAS DE PUERTO RICO
CARD COLLECTOR'S PRICE GUIDE
CARIBBEAN TRAVEL & LIFE
CARS & PARTS
CASH SAVER
CAT FANCY
CATALOG SHOPPING
CATHOLIC DIGEST
CATHOLIC FAMILY BIBLE
CATTLEMAN
CATWOMAN (COMIC)
CD REVIEW
CD-ROM TODAY
CD-ROM WORLD
CENTRAL FLORIDA CAREER GUIDE (W/UPDATES) CHAMPION CROSSWORD PUZZLES
CHAMPION VARIETY PUZZLES
CHAMPION VARIETY REVIEW
CHANGES
CHARISMA & CHRISTIAN LIFE
CHATELAINE (IN ENGLISH)
CHATELAINE (IN FRENCH)
CHESAPEAKE BAY
CHEVY HIGH PERFORMANCE
CHIC
CHICAGO
CHILD
CHILD LIFE
CHILDREN'S ALBUM
CHILDREN'S CLASSICS
CHILDREN'S DIGEST
CHILDREN'S PLAYMATE
CHOCOLATIER
CHRISTIAN HISTORY
CHRISTIAN PARENTING TODAY
CHRISTIAN READER
CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR
CHRISTIANITY TODAY
CIRCLE TRACK
CIRCUS
CIVIL WAR CHRONICLES
CIVIL WAR TIMES
CLASSIC AUTO RESTORER
CLEVELAND MAGAZINE
COACH
COIFFURE DE PARIS
COIN PRICES
COIN WORLD
COINAGE
COINS MAGAZINE
COLLECTOR EDITIONS
COLLECTORS MART
COLLECTORS NEWS
COLLECTORS NEWS
COLLEGE SPORTS
COLONIAL HOMES
COLORADO BUSINESS
COLORADO HOMES & LIFESTYLES
COLUMBIA JOURNALISM REVIEW
COMIC BOOK COLLECTOR
COMIC BOOK COLLECTOR'S PRICE GUIDE
COMIC SCENE
COMICS BUYERS GUIDE
COMICS SCENE
COMMON CAUSE
COMMONWEAL
COMPUTER GAME REVIEW & CD-ROM ENTERTAINMENT COMPUTER GAMING WORLD
COMPUTER LIFE
COMPUTER SHOPPER
COMPUTERWORLD
CONAN CLASSICS (COMIC)
CONAN SAGA (COMIC)
CONAN THE ADVENTURER (COMIC)
CONDE NASTE TRAVELER
*CONNECT-THE MODEM USERS RESOURCE*
CONSUMER REPORTS
CONSUMER REPORTS ON HEALTH
CONSUMER REPORTS TRAVEL LETTER
CONSUMER RESEARCH
CONSUMERS DIGEST
CONSUMERS RESEARCH
CONTEMPORARY CHRISTIAN MUSIC
COOK'S ILLUSTRATED
COOKBOOK DIGEST
COOKING LIGHT
CORVETTE FEVER
COSMOPOLITAN
COSMOPOLITAN EN ESPANOL
COUNTRY
COUNTRY ACCENTS
COUNTRY AMERICA
COUNTRY FEVER
COUNTRY GUIDE
COUNTRY HANDCRAFTS
COUNTRY HOME
COUNTRY HOME FOLK CRAFTS
COUNTRY JOURNAL
COUNTRY JOURNAL
COUNTRY LIVING
COUNTRY MUSIC
COUNTRY MUSIC CITY NEWS
COUNTRY SAMPLER
COUNTRY WOMAN
CQ RADIO AMATEURS JOURNAL
CRAFTING TODAY
CRAFTS
CRAFTS 'N THINGS
CRAFTWORKS FOR THE HOME
CRAIN'S NEW YORK BUSINESS
CRAYOLA KIDS
CREATIVE CLASSROOM
CREATIVE KIDS
CREATIVE QUILTING
CREATIVE REAL ESTATE
CREATIVE WOODWORKING & CRAFTS
CRICKET
CROCHET DIGEST
CROCHET FANTASY
CROCHET HOME
CROCHET WORLD
CROCHET WORLD SPECIALS
CROSS COUNTRY SKIER
CROSS STITCH
CROSS STITCH PLUS
CROSS STITCHER
CROSSSTITCH & COUNTRY CRAFTS
CRUISE TRAVEL
CRUISE TRAVEL
CRUISES & TOURS
CRUISING WORLD
CUSTOM & CLASSIC TRUCKS
CUSTOMER ASSURANCE REPORT
CUSTOMER SERVICE NEWSLETTER
CYCLE WORLD
DAILY NEWS RECORD
DANCE
DAREDEVIL (COMIC)
DARKHAWK (COMIC)
DAS LEBEN
DATA BASED ADVISOR
DAYTIME TV
DBMS (DATABASE MANAGEMENT SYSTEMS)
DEATH'S HEAD II (COMIC)
DEBATE ISSUES
DECORATING DIGEST
DECORATIVE ARTIST'S WORKBOOK
DECORATIVE ARTS PAINTING
DECORATVE WOODCRAFTS
DEER & DEER HUNTING
DEFENSE NEWS
DELAWARE TODAY
DELL CROSSWORD PUZZLES
DELL CROSSWORD SPECIAL
DELL CROSSWORDS & VARIETY PUZZLES
DELL HOROSCOPE

1995\09\30@212949 by Patricia Loring

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DELL LOGIC PUZZLES
DELL OFFICIAL CROSSWORD PUZZLES
DELL OFFICIAL PENCIL PUZZLE & WORD GAMES DELL OFFICIAL WORD SEARCH PUZZLES
DELL PENCIL PUZZLES & WORD GAMES
DELL POCKET CROSSWORD PUZZLES
DELL POCKET CROSSWORD PUZZLES
DELL WORD SEARCH PUZZLES
DES
DESKTOP VIDEO WORLD
DESSERTS
DETAILS
DETECTIVE COMICS
DETROIT MONTHLY
DIRT BIKE
DISCIPLESHIP JOURNAL
DISCOUNT STORE NEWS
DISCOVER
DISCOVER DIVING
DISNEY ADVENTURES
DISNEY'S HOW IT WORKS
DISTRIBUTION CENTER MANAGEMENT
DOG FANCY
DOG WORLD
DOLL CASTLE NEWS
DOLL DESIGNS
DOLL LIFE
DOLL WORLD
DOLLMAKING
DOLLS
DOOM 2099 (COMIC)
DOWN EAST
DOWN MEMORY LANE
DOWNBEAT
DR. DOBB'S JOURNAL
DR. STRANGE (COMIC)
DRUG & COSMETIC INDUSTRY
EARLY AMERICAN LIFE
EARLY CHILDHOOD NEWS
EARLY CHILDHOOD TODAY
EARTH
EARTH JOURNAL
EASY FAST "N FUN CROSSWORDS
EATING WELL
EBONY
EBONY MAN (EM)
ECONOMIST
ECOTRAVELER
ELECTRONIC GAMES
ELECTRONIC GAMING MONTHLY
ELECTRONIC LEARNING
ELECTRONICS NOW
ELITE MAGAZINE
ELLE (AMERICAN)
ELLE DECOR
ELLERY QUEEN'S MYSTERY
ELLERY QUEEN'S MYSTERY
EM (EBONY MAN)
EMERGE
ENGINEERING NEWS RECORD (ENR)
ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY (EW)
ENTREE
ENTREPRENEUR
ENVIRONMENT
EQUITIES
EQUUS
ESQUIRE
ESSENCE
EUROPEAN CAR
EXCALIBUR (COMIC)
EXCEPTIONAL PARENT
EXECUTIVE FEMALE
FAITH & STUFF
FAMILY CIRCLE
FAMILY HANDYMAN
FAMILY LIFE
FANCY FOOD & CANDY
FANGORIA
FANTASTIC FOUR (COMIC)
FANTASY & SCIENCE FICTION
FAR OUT
FARM BUILDING NEWS
FARM & RANCH LIVING
FARMERS DIGEST
FASHION GUIDE
FASHION KNITTING
FATE
FEDERAL TIMES
FEMALE BODYBUILDING
FIELD & STREAM
FIGHTING KNIVES
FIGHTING STARS NINJA MAGAZINE
FILM THREAT
FINANCIAL TIMES OF LONDON (MON - SAT)
FINANCIAL WORLD
FINE GARDENING
FINE HOMEBUILDING
FINE WOODWORKING
FIREHOUSE
FISHING FACTS
FISHING & HUNTING NEWS
FISHING WORLD
FIVE LITER MUSTANG
FLARE
FLASH (COMIC)
FLEX
FLOORING
FLORIDA LIVING
FLORIDA SPORTSMAN
FLORIDA TREND
FLORIDA VACATION RENTALS
FLOWER & GARDEN
FLY FISHERMAN
FLY FISHING
FLYING
FLYING MODELS
FOOD & WINE
FOOTBALL DIGEST
FOOTBALL NEWS
FORBES
FORCE WORKS (COMIC)
FOREIGN AFFAIRS
FOREIGN POLICY
FORTUNE
FORUM (PENTHOUSE)
FOUR WHEEL / OFF ROAD
FOUR WHEELER
FRONT PAGE DETECTIVE
FUN-ZONE
FUR - FISH - GAME
FUTURIFIC
FUTURIFIC
G.I. JOE (COMIC)
GAME PLAYERS NINTENDO GUIDE
GAME PLAYERS NINTENDO - SEGA
GAME PLAYERS PC ENTERTAINMENT
GAMEPRO
GAMES
GARBAGE
GEMS & GEMNOLOGY
GEMS & GEMNOLOGY
GENTLEMEN'S QUARTERLY (GQ)
GEOMUNDO
GET RICH NEWS
GHOST RIDER 2099 (COMIC)
GHOST RIDER / BLAZE (COMIC)
GHOST RIDER (COMIC)
GIFTS & DECORATIVE ACCESSORIES
GIFTWARE NEWS
GLAMOUR
GLASS DIGEST
GLEANINGS IN BEE CULTURE
GOD'S WORD TODAY
GOLDMINE
GOLF DIGEST
GOLF FOR WOMEN
GOLF MAGAZINE
GOLF TIPS
GOLF WEEK
GOLF WORLD
GOLFING
GOOD DAY SUNSHINE
GOOD HOUSEKEEPING
GOOD OLD DAYS
GOOD OLD DAYS SPECIALS
GOURMET
GREEN LANTERN (COMIC)
GRIT
GROO (COMIC)
GROWING UP WITH SCIENCE
GUARDIANS OF THE GALAXY (COMIC)
GUIDEPOSTS
GUIDEPOSTS (LARGE PRINT EDITION)
GUN DOG
GUN LIST
GUN WORLD
GUNS
GUNS & AMMO
GUNS & AMMO
HAIR ADDITIONS
HAIR & BEAUTY NEWS
HANDCRAFT ILLUSTRATED
HANDGUNNING
HANDGUNS
HARPER'S BAZAAR
HARPER'S BAZAAR EN ESPANOL
HARPER'S MAGAZINE
HARROWERS (COMIC)
HARVARD BUSINESS REVIEW
HAWAII
HEALTH
HELLSTORM (COMIC)
HERALD TRIBUNE CROSSWORD PUZZLES ONLY
HERALD TRIBUNE & OTHER CROSSWORD GAMES
HERO ILLUSRATED
HIGHLANDER
HIGHLIGHTS
HIGHLIGHTS
HISPANIC
HISTORIC PRESERVATION
HOCKEY DIGEST
HOCKEY NEWS
HOLLYWOOD STUDIO
HOLLYWOOD STUDIO MAG THEN & NOW
HOMBRE DE MUNDO
HOME COOKING
HOME GYM & FITNESS
HOME MAGAZINE
HOME MAGAZINE
HOME MECHANIX
HOME OFFICE COMPUTING
HONOLULU
HOOKED IN CROCHET
HORIZON
HOROSCOPE
HOROSCOPE/ A PERSONAL DAILY GUIDE FOR EVERYONE HOROSCOPE / DELL
HORSE & HORSEMAN
HORSE & HORSEMAN
HORSE ILLUSTRATED
HORSE & RIDER
HORSEPLAY
HORTICULTURE
HOT BOAT
HOT ROD
HOT ROD HARLEYS
HOUSE BEAUTIFUL
HOUSTON METROPOLITAN
HOUSTON PEOPLE
HOUSTON PROFILES
HOW
HUDSON VALLEY
HUMPTY DUMPTY
HUNTING
HUSTLER
HUSTLER'S BUSTY BEAUTIES
HUSTLER'S EROTIC VIDEO GUIDE
HUSTLER'S FANTASIES
HUSTLER'S HUMOR
I LOVE CATS
IDEAS
IDEAS PARA SU HOGAR
ILLUSTRATED BIBLE FOR CHILDREN
IMPORT AUTO PARTS & ACCESSORIES
IN BUSINESS
IN-FISHERMAN
INC.
INCOME OPPORTUNITIES
INCOME PLUS
INCREDIBLE HULK (COMIC)
INDIVIDUAL INVESTOR
IINDUSTRIAL MARKET PLACE
INSIDE EDGE
INSIDE IRELAND
INSIDE KARATE
INSIDE KUNG FU
INSIDE SPORTS
INSIGHT
INSTITUTIONAL INVESTOR
INSTRUCTOR
INTERIOR DECORATOR'S HANDBOOK
INTERIOR DESIGN
INTERIORS
INTERNATIONAL LIVING
INTERNATIONAL NURSING INDEX
INTERNET WORLD
INTERVIEW
INTIMATE FASHION NEWS
INVESTOR'S DAILY
IRON MAN (COMIC)
ISLANDS
ISRAEL SCENE
JACK & JILL
JERSEY WOMAN
JERUSALEM POST INTERNATIONAL WEEKLY EDITION JERUSALEM REPORT
JET
JEWISH EXPONENT
JEWISH HOMEMAKER
JEWISH POST & OPINION
JEWISH PRESS
JUSTICE LEAGUE AMERICA (COMIC)
JUSTICE LEAGUE EUROPE ( COMIC)
KARATE / KUNG FU ILLUSTATED
KEYBOARD
KID CITY
KIDSPORTS
KIPLINGER'S PERSONAL FINANCE
KIT CAR
KITPLANES
KNIFE WORLD
KNITTING DIGEST
KNITTING WORLD
L'ACTUALITE
LA LUZ
LA VIE
LADIES HOME JOURNAL
LADY'S CIRCLE
LADYBUG
LAKELAND BOATING
LAN MAGAZINE (LOCAL AREA NETWORK)
LAPIDARY JOURNAL
LEADERSHIP
LEARNING '94
LEFTHANDER
LEGAL GUIDE FOR THE FAMILY
LEGION OF SUPER-HEROES (COMIC)
LET'S LIVE
LIBRARY OF NATURAL WONDERS
LIFE
LIGHTING DIMENSIONS
LINK-UP
LINN'S STAMP NEWS
LITTLE MERMAID
LLUMO VOGUE
LONGEVITY
LOONEY TUNES (COMIC)
LOOSE CHANGE
LOS ANGELES
LOTTERY PLAYERS MAGAZINE
MAC HOME JOURNAL
MACLEANS
MACUSER
MACWORLD
MADEMOISELLE
MARKETERS FORUM
MARRIAGE PARTNERSHIP
MARVEL AGE (COMIC)
MARVEL COMICS PRESENTS
MARVEL TALES SPIDERMAN (COMIC)
MCCALL'S
MCCALL'S NEEDLEWORK & CRAFTS
MECANICA POPULAR
MEDIA & METHODS
MEDICAL & HEALTH ENCYCLOPEDIA
MEDICAL HOTLINE
MEDICAL UPDATE
MEGA PLAY
MEMPHIS MAGAZINE
MEN'S CONFIDENTIAL
MEN'S FITNESS
MEN'S HEALTH
MEN'S JOURNAL
METROPOLIS
METROPOLITAN HOME
MICKEY MOUSE
MICRO COMPUTER JOURNAL
MICROSOFT SYSTEMS JOURNAL
MID-ATLANTIC COUNTRY
MIDSTREAM
MIDWEST LIVING
MILITARY HISTORY
MILWAUKEE
MINISTRIES TODAY
MINNESOTA MONTHLY
MIRABELLA
MOBILE OFFICE
MODEL AIRPLANE NEWS
MODEL NEWS
MODEL SHOPPER
MODELS & TALENT/CASTING NEWS
MODERN BRIDE
MODERN GUN
MODERN HORSE BREEDING
MODERN SALON
MOMENT
MONEY
MONEYPAPER
MOODY MAGAZINE
MOODY MONTHLY
MOPAR MUSCLE
MORIBUS (COMIC)
MOTHER EARTH NEWS
MOTHER JONES
MOTHERING
MOTOR BOATING & SAILING
MOTOR TREND
MOTORCROSS ACTION
MOTORCYCLE CONSUMER NEWS
MOTORCYCLIST
MOTORHOME
MOUNTAIN BIKE
MOVIE MARKETPLACE
MOVIELINE
MUNDO 21
MUSCLE & FITNESS
MUSCLECAR REVIEW
MUSICIAN
MUSTANG MONTHLY
MUSTANGS & FORDS
MUSTANGS MONTHLY
NAILS
NAMOR (COMIC)
NATION
NATION'S BUSINESS
NATION'S RESTAURANT NEWS
NATIONAL AUCTION REPORT
NATIONAL ENQUIRER
NATIONAL FISHERMAN
NATIONAL LAW JOURNAL
NATIONAL OTC STOCK JOURNAL
NATIONAL PARK MAGAZINE
NATIONAL REVIEW
NATIONAL TRIAL LAWYER
NATURAL HEALTH
NATURAL HISTORY
NAVY TIMES
NBA INSIDE STUFF
*THE NET* (about the Internet)
NEEDLE & CRAFT
NEVADA MAGAZINE
NEW AGE JOURNAL
NEW BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES
NEW CHOICES
NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE
NEW FARM
NEW JERSEY MONTHLY
NEW JERSEY OUTDOORS
NEW MEXICO
NEW REPUBLIC
NEW TITANS (COMIC)
NEW WARRIORS (COMIC)
NEW WOMAN
NEW YORK MAGAZINE
NEW YORK REVIEW OF BOOKS
NEW YORKER
NEWSWEEK
NICE & EASY FAMILY COOKBOOK
NIGHT TRASHER (COMIC)
NIGHT WATCH (COMIC)
NO-TILL FARMER
NORTH FLORIDA LIVING
NORTH SHORE (CHICAGO)
NOVA (COMIC)
NUMISMATIC NEWS
NURSING
NUTRITION & DIETARY CONSULTANT
NUTRITION HEALTH REVIEW
OCCASIONAL BULLETIN
OFF ROAD
OFFICIAL CROSSWORD PUZZLES
OFFICIAL DETECTIVE
OFFICIAL MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL ROOKIE LEAGUE MAGAZINE FOR KIDS OFFICIAL
PENCIL PUZZLES / WORD GAMES
OFFICIAL US CUSTOM HOUSE GUIDE
OFFICIAL WORD SEARCH PUZZLES
OLD CARS NEWS & MARKETPLACE
OLD CARS PRICE GUIDE
OLD HOUSE JOURNAL
OLD TIME CROCHET
OMNI
ONLINE ACCESS
ONSAT
OPEN WHEEL
OPERA NEWS
OPPORTUNITY MAGAZINE
ORGANIC GARDENING
OUTDOOR LIFE
OUTDOOR PHOTOGRAPHER
OUTDOOR PRESS
OUTSIDE
OVERDRIVE
PACIFIC NORTHWEST
PACK -O-FUN
PADDLE SPORTS
PADDLER
PAINTWORKS
PALM BEACH LIFE
PALM SPRINGS LIFE
PARENTING
PARENTS
PARENTS OF TEENAGERS
PASSION
PASSION FOR MEN
PC COMPUTING
PC GAMER
PC GAMES
PC KIDS
PC LAPTOP
PC MAGAZINE
PC NOVICE
PC TODAY
PC WORLD
PC WORLD LOTUS EDITION
PC WORLD MULTI MEDIA EDITION
PCM
PENNSYLVANIA SPORTSMAN
PENTHOUSE
PENTHOUSE LETTERS
PEOPLE
PET DEALER
PHILADELPHIA
PHOENIX HOME & GARDEN
PHOTOGRAPH COLLECTOR
PHOTOGRAPHIC
PINHEAD (COMIC)
PLANE & PILOT
PLASTIC CANVAS
PLASTIC CANVAS & MORE
PLASTIC CANVAS WORLD
PLAYBOY
PLAYGIRL
PLAYTHINGS
POCKET CROSSWORD PUZZLES
POLO
POPULAR COMMUNICATIONS
POPULAR ELECTRONICS
POPULAR HOT RODDING
POPULAR MECHANICS
POPULAR PHOTOGRAPHY
POPULAR SCIENCE
POPULAR WOODWORKING
PORTABLE COMPUTING
POST SCRIPT
POST SCRIPTS: ESSAYS IN FILM & THE HUMANITIES POWDER
POWER & MOTOR YACHT
PRACTICAL HORSEMAN
PREMIERE
PRESENT TENSE
PREVENTION
PRIVATE PILOT
PRO FOOTBALL WEEKLY
PROGRESSIVE
PROGRESSIVE FARMER
PROTESTANT DELUXE BIBLE
PROTESTANT FAMILY BIBLE
PSYCHOLOGY TODAY
PUBLISH
PULSE
PUNISHER 2099 (COMIC)
PUNISHER (COMIC)
PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL (COMIC)
PUNISHER WAR ZONE (COMIC)
QUASAR (COMIC)
QUICK & EASY CRAFTS
QUICK & EASY CROCHET
QUICK & EASY NEEDLECRAFT
QUICK & EASY PLASTIC CANVAS
QUICK & EASY QUILTING
QUILT WORLD
QUILTER'S NEWSLETTER
QUILTER'S TREASURY
QUILTER'S TREASURY
QUILTING INTERNATIONAL
QUILTMAKER
RAILROAD MODEL CRAFTSMAN
RAPPAGES
RAPPORT
RAVAGE 2099 (COMIC)
REAL PEOPLE
REALTY MAGAZINE
REDBOOK
REMINISCE
REN & STIMPY (COMIC)
RETIREMENT INCOME NEWSLETTER
RIDER
RIGHT ON
RIP
ROAD RIDER
ROAD & TRACK
ROBB REPORT
ROCK & GEM
ROD & CUSTOM
ROLLING STONE
RUNNER'S WORLD
RUNNING TIMES
RURAL BUILDER
S.W.A.T.
SABERTOOTH CLASSICS (COMIC)
SADDLE & BRIDE
SAIL
SAILING
SAILING WORLD
SALTWATER SPORTSMAN
SAN DIEGO HOME & GARDEN
SAN DIEGO MAGAZINE
SAN FRANCISCO
SASSY
SATELLITE TV PRE-VUE
SATELLITE TV WEEK
SATURDAY EVENING POST
SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN (COMIC)
SCHOLASTIC COACH
SCHOOL & COLLEGE
SCIENCE LIBRARY
SCIENCE NEWS
SCIENCE OF MIND
SCIENCES
SCIENTIFIC AMERICAN
SCUBA DIVING
SCUBA TIMES
SEA MAGAZINE
SECRET DEFENDERS (COMIC)
SELF
SESAME STREET
SEVENTEEN
SEVENTY-THREE AMATEUR RADIO
SEW NEWS
SEYBOLD REPORT ON DESKTOP PUBLISHING
SHAPE
SHOOTING TIMES
SHOP TALK
SHORT STORY INTERNATIONAL
SHOW BIZ / CASTING NEWS
SHOW BIZ NEWS/MODEL NEWS
SHOWBOATS INTERNATIONAL
SIDEKICKS
SIDEKICKS SOCCER
SILVER SABLE (COMIC)
SILVER SURFER (COMIC)
SIMPLY CROSS STITCH
SKATEBOARDING
SKI
SKIING
SKIN DIVER
SKIN & INK
SMITHSONIAN
SNOW COUNTRY
SNOW GOER
SNOW WEEK
SNOWBOARDING
SNOWMOBILE
SOAP OPERA DIGEST
SOAP OPERA MAGAZINE
SOAP OPERA STARS
SOCCER AMERICA
SOCCER DIGEST
SOCCER INTERNATIONAL
SOUNDINGS
SOUTH FLORIDA
SOUTHERN ACCENTS
SOUTHERN BOATING
SOUTHERN HOMES
SOUTHERN LIVING
SOUTHERN OUTDOORS
SPACE NEWS
SPECIAL EVENTS
SPECIAL SITUATIONS REPORT
SPECIALTY CAR
SPECTACULAR SPIDERMAN (COMIC)
SPIDERMAN 2099 (COMIC)
SPIDERMAN CLASSIC (COMIC)
SPIDERMAN (COMIC)
SPIN
SPORT
SPORT DIVER
SPORT FISHING
SPORT RIDER
SPORT TRUCK
SPORTING CLASSICS
SPORTING NEWS
SPORTS AFIELD
SPORTS CARD TRADER
SPORTS COLLECTORS DIGEST
SPORTS ILLUSTRATED
SPORTS ILLUSTRATED FOR KIDS
SPORTSWEAR INTERNATIONAL
SPOTLIGHT
STAR
STAR TREK (COMIC)
STAR TREK : THE NEXT GENERATION (COMIC)
STARLOG
STEREO REVIEW
STITCH 'N SEW QUILTS
STOCK CAR RACING
STONE SOUP
STORY
STUDIO USA
STYLE TRENDS
SUCCESS
SUCCESSFUL RETIREMENT
SUNBONNET CRAFTS
SUNSET
SUPER CHEVY
SUPER COMPUTING REVIEW
SUPER CYCLE
SUPER FORD
SUPER NES BUYERS GUIDE
SUPER STOCK & DRAG ILLUSTRATED
SUPERCYCLE
SUPERMAN - MAN OF STEEL (COMIC)
SURFER
SURFING
SURPRISES
SWAP USA
SWAT
T-SHIRT RETAILER
TAMPA BAY CAREER GUIDE (WITH UPDATES)
TASTE OF HOME
TAX HOTLINE
TCI
TEACHING PRE K-8
TECHNOLOGY & LEARNING
TEDDY BEAR REVIEW
TEEN
TEEN BEAT
TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES (COMIC)
TEK WORLD (COMIC)
TENNIS
TEXAS FISH & GAME
TEXAS GARDENER
THE SCIENCES
THEATRE CRAFTS
THEOLOGY TODAY
THOR (COMIC)
THREADS
THREE-TWO-ONE CONTACT
THUNDERSTRIKE (COMIC)
TIME
TODAY'S CATHOLIC TEACHER
TODAY'S CHRISTIAN WOMAN
TOLE WORLD
TOTAL HEALTH
TOURING AMERICA
TOWN & COUNTRY
TOY SHOP
TRACK & FIELD NEWS
TRADING CARDS
TRADITIONAL HOME
TRADITIONAL QUILTER
TRAILER BOATS
TRAILER LIFE
TRANSFORMERS GENERATION 2 (COMIC)
TRANSWORLD SKATEBOARDING
TRAPPER & PREDATOR CALLER
TRAVEL 50 & BEYOND
TRAVEL AMERICA
TRAVEL HOLIDAY
TRAVEL & LEISURE
TRAVELAMERICA
TREASURE
TRIATHLETE
TRUE DETECTIVE
TRUE STORY
TU
TURKEY & TURKEY HUNTING
TURTLE
TV CROSSWORDS
TV HOST
TV Y NOVELAS (PUERTO RICO)
TV Y NOVELAS (USA)
TWINS
UNCANNY X-MEN (COMIC)
UNDERWATER USA
UNIQUE HAIR & BEAUTY
UNIQUE HOMES
US AVIATOR
US CATHOLIC
US MAGAZINE
US NEWS & WORLD REPORT
USA TODAY
UTNE READER
VACATIONS
VANIDADES
VANITY FAIR
VARIATIONS (PENTHOUSE)
VARIETY (WEEKLY)
VEGETARIAN TIMES
VEGGIE LIFE
VERMONT LIFE
VETTE
VIBE
VICTORIA
VICTORIAN HOMES
VIDEO GAMES & COMPUTER ENTERTAINMENT
VIDEO MAGAZINE
VIDEO REVIEW
VIDEOMAKER
VIETNAM
VILLAGE VOICE
VIRTUAL REALITY WORLD
VIRTUE
VOGUE
VOLLEYBALL MAGAZINE
VOLLEYBALL MONTHLY
VOTRE BEAUTE
W MAGAZINE
WALKING
WALL STREET REPORTS
WALL STREET TRANSCRIPTS
WALLEYE
WAR MACHINE (COMIC)
WARLOCK & INFINITY WATCH (COMIC)
WASHINGTON POST NATIONAL WEEKLY
WASHINGTONIAN
WATER SCOOTER
WATERCRAFT WORLD
WATERSKI
WEARABLE CRAFTS
WEARABLE WONDERS
WEB OF SPIDERMAN (COMIC)
WEEKEND WOODCRAFTS
WEEKEND WOODWORKING PROJECTS
WEEKLY WORLD NEWS
WEIGHT WATCHERS
WESTERN FRUIT GROWER
WESTERN HORSEMAN
WESTERN LIVESTOCK JOURNAL
WESTERN OUTDOORS
WHAT IF
WHAT'S NEW IN HOME ECONOMICS
WHERE TO RETIRE
WILD THING (COMIC)
WILD WEST
WILDBIRD
WILDLIFE CONSERVATION
WIN MAGAZINE
WINDOWS
WINDOWS SOURCES
WINDSURFING
WING & SHOT
WINGS WEST
WINNING BICYCLE RACING ILLUSTRATED
WIRED
WISCONSIN OUTDOOR JOURNAL
WOLVERINE (COMIC)
WOMAN'S CIRCLE
WOMAN'S DAY
WOMEN & GUNS
WOMEN'S CIRCLE
WOMEN'S CIRCLE CROCHET
WOMEN'S CIRCLE HOME COOKIN
WOMEN'S HOUSEHOLD CROCHET
WOMEN'S HOUSEHOULD
WOMEN'S SPORTS & FITNESS
WOMEN'S WEAR DAILY
WONDER MAN (COMIC)
WONDER WOMAN (COMIC)
WOOD
WOOD STROKES
WOODEN BOAT
WOODSHOP NEWS
WOODWORKER
WOODWORKER PROJECTS & TECHNIQUES
WORD WIZE
WORKBASKET
WORKBENCH
WORKING MOTHER
WORKING WOMAN
WORLD COIN NEWS
WORLD & I
WORLD PRESS REVIEW
WORLD WAR II
WORLDVIEW
WORTH
WRITER'S DIGEST
X-FACTOR (COMIC)
X-FORCE (COMIC)
X-MEN 2099 (COMIC)
X-MEN ADVENTURES (COMIC)
X-MEN BRAND NEW (COMIC)
X-MEN CLASSICS (COMIC)
X-MEN EARLY YEARS (COMIC)
YACHT RACING/CRUISING
YACHTING
YANKEE
YM (YOUNG & MODERN)
YOGA JOURNAL
YOUR MONEY
YSB (YOUNG SISTERS & BROTHERS)
ZILLIONS
ZOO BOOKS


'===> List of over 1,'
1995\10\02@001620 by Daniel Oshaben
flavicon
face
You wrote:
>
>---> Please note:  if you have requested our free catalgoue by email
in the
>last 48 hrs and have not gotten a reply yet, *please* re-send the
below
>form in.   We were swamped with requests for our catalogue and we now
have
>increased our capacity to respond to more inquiries.  We are very
sorry if
>you were one of the few people who did not get a copy of the
catalogue,
>but if you will take a moment to re-fill out the below form
*completely*,
>we will send the catalogue back by email within 1 business day of our
>receipt of your request.  Please note that forms not completely filled
in
>cannot be acknowledged at all due to the tremendous response we are
>getting.
>
>
>Hi fellow 'netters,
>
>My name is Patricia Loring and I recently started using a magazine
>subscription club in the USA that has a FREE 1 yr. magazine
subscription
>deal with your first paid order- and I have been very pleased with
them.
>They have over 1,500 different USA titles that they can ship to any
country
>on a subscription basis.   As for computer magazines from the USA,
they
>more of a selection than I ever knew even existed.  They have
magazines for
>most every area of interest in their list of 1,500 titles.
>
>At the bottom of this list is a list sampling of many of the titles
that
>they sell.  They can *all* be shipped to any country!
>
>Within the USA, for their USA members, they are cheaper than all their
>competitors and even the publishers themselves.  This is their price
>guarantee.
>
>Overseas, on the average, they are generally around one-fourth to
one-half
>of what the newstands overseas charge locally for USA magazines.  On
some
>titles they are as little as one-tenth of what the newstands charge.
They
>feel that mgazines should not be a luxury overseas.   In the USA,
people
>buy magazines and then toss them after reading them for just a few
minutes
>or hours.  They are so cheap in the USA!   Well, this company would
like to
>make it the same way for their overseas members.  They are also
cheaper
>than all their competitors in the USA and overseas, including the
>publishers themselves!   This is their price guarantee.  Around
one-half
>their business comes from overseas, so they are very patient with new
>members who only speak limited English as a 2nd language.
>
>Their prices are so cheap because they deal direct with each publisher
and
>cut-out all the middlemen.
>
>
>They will send you their DELUXE EMAIL CATALOGUE (around 500K-big and
>juicey) !)...if you completely fill out the form below.  It has lists
of
>all the freebies, lists of all the titles they sell, titles broken
down by
>categories and detailed descriptions on nearly 1,200 of the titles
that
>they sell.
>
>Please do not email me as I am just a happy customer and a *busy*
student.
{Quote hidden}

the mail:
>Name of USA mags you would like price quotes on when we call you:
>Catalogue format desired from below 2 choices (list "1" or "2"):
>(1. 19-part email message;    2.  atttached file by email)
>
>{{{Note-  19-part email can be received by anyone with any computer.
>Attached file format may not be for you:  it is sent as an
uncompressed
>500K file formatted in Microsoft World on a Mac;  if you don't use
>Microsoft Word on a Mac - you will have to know how to convert into a
>usable text format.  We cannot help you with this.   If in doubt, we
>suggest you go with the universally acceptable 19-part email message.
You
>can always manually spend a few minutes pasting the parts into one
>whole.}}}
>
>How did you hear about us (name of person who referred you or the area
of
>the internet that you saw us mentioned in):  Patricia Loring
>093095ls
>*------------cut here-----------------------------------------------*
>
>
>
>They guarantee to beat all their competitors' prices. Sometimes they
are
>less than half of the next best deal I have been able to find and
other
>times, just a little cheaper - but I have never found a lower rate
yet.
>They assured me that if I ever do, they will beat it.
>
>They have been very helpful and helped me change my address from the
USA to
>Finland and then back again when I moved last month.  They are very
>knowledgeable about addressing mags worldwide.
>
>They have a deal where you can get a free 1 yr. sub to a new magazine
from
>a special list of over 300 popular titles published in the USA.   They
will
>give you this free 1 yr. sub when you place your first paid order with
them
>to a renewal or new subscription to any of the over 1,500 different
popular
>USA titles they sell.
>
>They can arrange delivery to virtually any country and I think they
have
>clients in around 35 or 36 countries now.  Outside the USA there is a
>charge for foreign postage and handling (on both paid and freebie
subs)
>that varies from magazine to magazine.  I have found their staff to be
very
>friendly and courteous.  They even helped me with an address change
when I
>moved from one country to another.
>
>The owner thinks of his service as a "club" and his clients as
"members"
>(even though there is no extra fee to become a member - your first
purchase
>automatically makes you a member) and he is real picky about who he
accepts
>as a new member.   When he sets you up as a new member, he himself
calls
>you personally on the phone to explain how he works his deal, or
sometimes
>he has one of his assistants call.  He is kind of quirky sometimes -
he
>insists on setting up new members by phone so he can say hi to
everyone (I
>sure wouldn't want to have his phone bills!),  but you can place
future
>orders (after your first order) via E-mail.
>
>He has some really friendly young ladies working for him, who seem to
know
>just as much as he does about this magazine stuff.  If you live
overseas,
>he will even call you there, as long as you are interested, but I
think he
>still makes all his overseas calls on the weekends, I guess cause the
long
>distance rates are cheaper then.
>
>He only likes to take new members from referrals from satisfied
existing
>members and he does virtually no advertising.  When I got set-up, they
had
>a 2-3 week waiting list for new members to be called back so that they
>could join up. (Once you are an existing member, they help you
immediately
>when you call. )  I think they are able to get back to prospective new
>members  the same day or within a few days now, as they have increased
>their staff.  I am not sure about this.........but if you email the
above
>form to them, that is the way to get started!
>
>They will send you some FREE info. via E-mail (the short version
(around
>40K) of their catalogue, or if you request it the DELUXE LONG VERSION
>(around 400K-big and juicey) !)...if you fill out the form near the
top of
>this message.
>
>They then send you email  that outlines how his club works and the
list of
>free choices that you can choose from, as well as the entire list of
what
>he sells;  and then they will give you a quick (3-5 minute) friendly,
>no-pressure no-obligation call to explain everything to you personally
and
>answer all your questions.
>
>Once you get in, you'll love them. I do.  For more info,  just fill
out the
>form near the top of this message and email it to:
RemoveMEsallyengspamspamSTOPspamixc.net
>
>
>Cheers!
>
>--
>Patricia Loring
>
>
>ps.  please forward a copy of this message to all your friends on the
net
>who you think might be interested in it!  It is a great deal!  If you
join
>and then they join after you, you will earn a free 1 yr. subscription
for
{Quote hidden}

PUZZLES
>DELL PENCIL PUZZLES & WORD GAMES
>DELL POCKET CROSSWORD PUZZLES
>DELL POCKET CROSSWORD PUZZLES

1995\10\02@001620 by Daniel Oshaben

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

OFFICIAL
{Quote hidden}

please do NOT send long unrequested email messages

thank you

1995\10\02@144920 by PETE KLAMMER

flavicon
face
> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:57:53 -0500
> From: Patricia Loring <.....patricia.loringEraseMEspamES.CO.NZ>
> Subject: ===> List of over 1, 500 USA magazine subscription titles / Get one
*FREE* !!!
> [...]
> Please do not email me as I am just a happy customer and a *busy* student.

Oh, she'll be *very* busy now!

> I don't have time to even complete my thesis in time, let alone run my
> part-time software business!  Email them directly at:
> spamBeGonesallyengspamRemoveMEixc.net

I have a better idea: forward (don't *reply*!) the original message,
complete, to the following, with subject line ``stop spamming'':

================================================================
  Domain Name: NZ
  Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
     Houlker, John Charles  (JCH41)  .....j.houlkerEraseMEspamWAIKATO.AC.NZ
     +64 71 384 069
  Alternate Contact:
     Croft, Rex  (RC373)  spamr.croftspam_OUTspam@spam@WAIKATO.AC.NZ
     +64 71 384 039
================================================================
  Domain Name: IXC.NET
  Administrative Contact:
     Chaugundia, Kent  (KC49)  spamksc@spam@spamSTOPspamIXC.NET
     212-758-3283
  Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
     Prof Dr.Leff, Lawrence  (LP90)  spamBeGoneleffspamBeGonespam@spam@IXC.NET
     309-298-1315/217-322-1212
================================================================

These are the folks in a position to do anything about spammers and
spamming, so let them know if you don't like it, and let them know how it
feels to get unsolicited, off-topic, indiscriminately-broadcast 26KB
commercial appeals spewed in their mailboxes.

Peter F. Klammer                                       RemoveMEPKlammerRemoveMEspamRemoveMEACM.Org
w:(303)773-7411 h:(303)233-9485   EEPROM: mere bridge techology to FRAM
11221 West 27th Place       Learn about League for Programming Freedom!
Lakewood, Colorado 80215          by sending email to: lpfKILLspamspamspamuunet.uu.net

1995\10\02@150629 by PETE KLAMMER

flavicon
face
You wrote:
> You wrote:
> >---> Please note:  if you have requested our free catalgoue by email
> > [...]
> > [... all 29KB included in reply...]
> > [...]
> >ZOO BOOKS
> please do NOT send long unrequested email messages
>
> thank you

... and please do NOT send long COPIES of long unrequested email messages
back into the list again!

Peter F. Klammer, Racom Systems Inc.                   spam_OUTPKlammer@spam@spamACM.Org
6080 Greenwood Plaza Boulevard                            (303)773-7411
Englewood, CO  80111                                  FAX:(303)771-4708

1995\10\02@165845 by David Harmon

picon face
On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, PETE KLAMMER wrote:

> I have a better idea: forward (don't *reply*!) the original message,
> complete, to the following, with subject line ``stop spamming'':
>
> ================================================================
>    Domain Name: NZ

No! No! No!

Please don't mail-bomb some poor innocent New Zelander who pays big bucks
for a slow net link, just because Krazy Kevin forged their address on his
infamous magazine spam.  If you want to protest, use the address _inside_
the message where he's soliciting replies, and postmaster @ that site.

Read newsgroup news.admin.net-abuse.misc for further info.

'PICLIST Digest - 29 Sep 1995 to 30 Sep 1995'
1995\10\02@193557 by ES Administrator

flavicon
face
At 12:04 AM 10/1/95 -0400, you wrote:
>There are 9 messages totalling 1665 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>  6. ===> List of over 1,500 USA magazine subscription titles / Get one *FREE*

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Please note that there has never been a user TakeThisOuTpatricia.loringspam_OUTspames.co.nz (and
there never will be). Any mail sent to that address will bounce.

I believe that the message originated from a user of ixc.ixc.net. The
postmster there has been queried regarding this matter but as yet I have
recieved no reply.
- From a helpful user :
>This person is Kevin Jay Lipsitz (PO Box 120990, Staten Island NY
>10312-0990, according to his whois.  Good luck proving it, though, or
>extracting any money out of him.  He's been at this for years, screwing
>over site after site. You won't get any response from ixc.net, incidentally
>-- they will give an account to anyone, for free, and don't really care
>about the consequences. Same for freenet.fsu.edu, one of his other haunts.

I would like to find this person and make them pay for the all the mail
we've recieved about this (after 2 days - 16 megabytes and still climbing).
In New Zealand we have to pay for every byte of traffic on our system (both
incoming and outgoing).

Thanks for taking the time to send your message but please be assured that
it wasn't posted from our system or by one of our users.

PS: I'd like to thank those (few) people who didn't send me the whole
original message. I'd also like to thank the people who sent me their SMTP
logs so I could have some proof that the message didn't originate from
es.co.nz. To the people who decided that I'd really like a copy of their
core dumps, what I'd like to say to you, isn't printable.

Nick Kean,
Efficient Software Network Manager.
PGP available by fingering KILLspamnick.kean.....spamTakeThisOuTes.co.nz

PS: Yes, this is a form letter (well most of it anyway). No, you don't have
to reply to it (unless you really want to.)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBMHBe4dBGoYLL3vnpAQED2gP/XsCmksoSnbVl6J8pOSY2gPQejbjDs0ds
d/jaDxMrHDHt9hrW1klxo80r8K6v4JFEqExLAm3AQedxbLut0aKuDUfe/sfZeZd5
cNYJ1sF2C3KTtXCM1WY/NuMMx5M5145uHCy3BJwiU0JNOJRlrP+k/R7OYVOBEOMX
r3c40RizejE=
=NoCr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
Efficient Software Admin.
TakeThisOuTadminEraseMEspamRemoveMEes.co.nz

'PICLIST Digest - 6 Oct 1995 to 7 Oct 1995'
1995\10\08@100421 by David Baker

flavicon
face
On Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:00:48 -0400, "Automatic digest processor" <LISTSERV@MITVMA
.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Date:    Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:24:56 -0500
> From:    "Samantha Jerrings, President, International Students Association,
>          Eastern Division" <spam_OUTabacusRemoveMEspam.....ABACUS.NET>
> Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popular USA Titles

Is anything being done to find a way to stop this spamming? A new list
server perhaps or some screening method? I subscribe to a few mailing lists
& this is the only one that seems troubled by this same posting every week.
It's getting rather annoying & taking up a good chunk of my expensive
download time allocation.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - spamdavidKILLspamspamKILLspambaker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - spamdavidspam_OUTspamgmetra.po.my |
|                          |  Fax                  - 60-3-2612870       |
|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1995\10\08@105519 by Stuart Allman

flavicon
face
At 06:34 PM 10/8/95 MYT, you wrote:
>On Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:00:48 -0400, "Automatic digest processor"
<LISTSERV@MITVMA
> .MIT.EDU> wrote:
>
>> Date:    Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:24:56 -0500
>> From:    "Samantha Jerrings, President, International Students Association,
>>          Eastern Division" <STOPspamabacusspam_OUTspamspamBeGoneABACUS.NET>
>> Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popular USA
Titles
>
>Is anything being done to find a way to stop this spamming? A new list
>server perhaps or some screening method? I subscribe to a few mailing lists
>& this is the only one that seems troubled by this same posting every week.
>It's getting rather annoying & taking up a good chunk of my expensive
>download time allocation.
>
>Dave
>--

I agree with Dave.  Could the group moderator please e-mail this woman and
tell her that we don't want her advertisements?  I don't want to read about
magazine subscriptions in a PIC newsgroup.  I'm guessing if I do it
personally, I'll just have the ads start coming directly to my mail.

Stuart Allman
spam_OUTstudiospamspamBeGonehalcyon.com

'PICLIST Digest - 7 Oct 1995 to 8 Oct 1995'
1995\10\09@104625 by David Baker

flavicon
face
On Mon, 9 Oct 1995 00:00:30 -0400, "Automatic digest processor" <LISTSERV@MITVMA
.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> >> Content-transfer-encoding: base64
>
> > Uh, how about posting in a format that is useable?
>
> Base64 is emminently useable, portable, and standardized.  The SMTP
> protocol specifically limits itself to 7-bit ASCII data (see RFC 821).
> Without prior negotiation and agreement, the transfer of 8-bit binary
> data is prohibit.  If forced, it will cause interoperability problems.

Is there any need to send 8 bit data? This is a mailing list. We don't need
fancy fonts & flashing text, etc. I subscribe to this list as a digest &
there is no way I am going to cut & paste all this base64 stuff just so I
can have nice fonts added to a text message which has already been posted
in ASCII anyway.

BASE64 has it's place - sending binary files, not adding pretty bits to a
newslist. I have to pay a lot of money for my Internet connection from
Malaysia, so I am all for the smallest amount of data required to get the
information across. I am working in DOS & see no need for Windows to read
messages on this list. We are pic programmers aren't we? All trying to get
the tightest code into our limited resources? No need to bloat the code
with fancy trimmings :-)

Anyway, compared to the mass spamming by this magazine company, the base64
problem is very minor - I hope the list owner can get this sorted out, or I
am going to have to sit on the sidelines until then -  I can't afford to
download megabytes of junk every day.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - EraseMEdavidspamKILLspambaker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - EraseMEdavidRemoveMEspamgmetra.po.my |
|                          |  Fax                  - 60-3-2612870       |
|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Re[2]: Pic list traffic'
1995\10\09@111404 by Willem Hijbeek

picon face
    Dear All

    Any advancements on the issue below ?

    Regards,  Willem Hijbeek
    Tempe Technologies


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Pic list traffic
Author:  "Jaco Swart" <.....JSWARTspamspam_OUTElise.ee.techpta.ac.za> at Internet_Exchange
Date:    8/19/95 12:16 PM


Moving to a newsgroup? Yes, let's!

In fact, we have talked about starting a PIC newsgroup for Gauteng
here at Technikon Pretoria.

Greetings, Jaco Swart
 @spam@jswartEraseMEspamspamElise.ee.techpta.ac.za                              we are
 Dept. of Digital Technology      Tel 27-12-318-5020     PowerWielding
 Technikon Pretoria, RSA          Fax 27-12-318-5688      Technology!

'PICLIST Digest - 9 Oct 1995 to 10 Oct 1995 - Speci'
1995\10\11@053104 by David Baker

flavicon
face
On Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:22:46 -0400, "Automatic digest processor" <LISTSERV@MITVM
A.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> There are 4 messages totalling 12627 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics in this special issue:
>
>   1. 16C84 bulk erase problems
>   2. Look Up Table
>   3. Memory Pages
>   4. ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popular USA

Terrific,

12500 lines of crap & 167 lines of useful information. Who was the person
on this list who said to just ignore them?

I will have to leave this list if this is not resolved in the next couple
of days. I would like to come back if/when this spammer is locked out &
well-meaning people decide to spam him back but do it to the list instead.

Is anyone that is planning on staying willing to start up a list of people
who would come back when this issue is reolved? We could get emailed when
the list is safe to return to.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - davidTakeThisOuTspamKILLspambaker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - RemoveMEdavidTakeThisOuTspamgmetra.po.my |
|                          |  Fax                  - 60-3-2612870       |
|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'spammage solutions [list maintainer update]'
1995\10\12@052727 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> Piclist members,
>
> Many of the solutions proposed here with regards to thwarting spammage are
> quite workable. Unfortunately, under the current scenario, the list is
> sited at MIT and it is difficult or impossible to implement changes to list
> settings (which must all be filtered through a list maintainer maintainer
> individual).

We understand.

>
> I hope to have a new list prototype working by this wekend. This list will
> be sited at my home (the joys of a fractional T1) on a Mac running
> MacjorDomo and Mailshare. I am a little worried about bandwidth issues, but
> we will see.

I again offer the use of one of our machines at Clark Atlanta University.
We are fully internet connected via a full T1 and We could set up a Linux
box running MajorDomo from there. It would eliminate bandwith issues.

The hardware would be a 486-66DX/2 with 16Megs of RAM and a 340 Meg HD.

>
> The list will be set to reject postings from nonsubscribers. Hopefully this
> will solve our current potted meat problems.

It's a start. The other suggestions to take to heart:

- Don't allow really long messages.
- Have a bandwith limit per day for users.
- Have some kind of password to override either of the above settings.
- Have a trusted user list which isn't subject to the rules.
- Anyone caught spamming is immediately terminated.

It's really rare when someone needs to send a lot of stuff in one message.
David Tait's MIPI stuff was an example. Most SPAMS are long and drawn out.
So even if the spammer takes the time to subscribe, the above rules will
lock them out of both sending a long message or splitting it up into short
messages.

Basically this is a case of by putting a somewhat simple lock on the barn
door will prevent the spam from coming through.

One last thing. Erik posted a message saying he was out of here. That is of
course his right. However I think it would be appropriate to send him a
personal message explaining that his leaving only hurts the good folks of the
list and has no effect at all on the spammers. I'd like to see his device
independant PIC programmer. Could you talk to him Jory? Show him that we're
trying to fix it somehow.

Anyway this whole situation sucks. Let's find a way to fix it.

BAJ

'list move update...'
1995\10\15@230729 by jory bell

face
flavicon
face
Just a quick update...

I am still working on moving to list to a site less vulnerable to potted
meat product. It is taking a little longer to set up the new list with
sufficient privacy for list members.

-jory

'8051 mailing list'
1995\10\17@043037 by pmcculey

picon face
Hi,

I'm sorry if this is somewhat off topic, but I was wondering if
a similar mailing list to this exists for the 8051 based
microcontrollers.

Thanks for any replies.

Joe
_________________________________________________________________

Joe McCauley
Physics Department,           Tel: 353-1-7022218
Trinity College,              Fax: 353-1-6711759
Dublin 2,                     Email: @spam@pmcculeySTOPspamspammail.tcd.ie"
Ireland.

1995\10\17@062919 by Uwe Schueler

flavicon
face
PHILIPS has a 8051 mailing list:

TakeThisOuTphilips-forumTakeThisOuTspamRemoveMEinetbsystems.us.com

email with subject: subscribe

'PICLIST Digest - 15 Oct 1995 to 16 Oct 1995'
1995\10\17@100539 by David Baker

flavicon
face
> From:    "Patrick S. Coutu" <spam_OUTC82032476spamspam.....ACS.SAULTC.ON.CA>
> Subject: Which PIC for basic remote radio freq. car starter?
>
>           Hi PIC'ers,
>          I'm planning to build a remote control car starter. I own a
>          PIC16c54 and would like to know if anyone would attempt this
>          project with this particular PIC. Also what parts do I need
>          for the transmitter-receiver portion of it?

I brought up this same subject a week or 2 ago. In fact I saw the insides
of a car remote control for door locking & it had a PIC 16C54 in it, along
with very little else. I thought this would be a great project, so I asked
here - I had several good answers, but surprisingly (for a PIC list) nobody
recommended to do it with PICs! The circuit looked very simple, but I
couldn't get one from anyone. Holtek make some txmitters & receivers which
will do the job & they are quite cheap. Digikey has them in their online
catalog at their WWW site & they will mail to Malaysia, so I'm sure Canada
would be no problem. I plan to order mine very soon.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - david.....spam@spam@baker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - spamBeGonedavidspamspam_OUTgmetra.po.my |
|                          |  Fax                  - 60-3-2612870       |
|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1995\10\17@160508 by Patrick S. Coutu

flavicon
face
          Thanks Dave,
                   ..for your reply on my car starter project.
                             Patrick in Sault, Canada

'PICLIST Digest - 16 Oct 1995 to 17 Oct 1995'
1995\10\18@070121 by MORBIUS

flavicon
face
Could someone tell me where I could find the schematics for a 16C57
PIC Programmer?  I don't want to buy one, I would like to build it
myself.  Thanks in advance.

Chris Hecker

'Robotic List?'
1995\10\21@103200 by Mark A. Corio

picon face
Over the last month or so I have seen several references to robotic
applications (including hobby, etc.) on this list.  Does anyone know of a
similar list on robotic topics.  I am more interested in unique applications
or hobby applications than I am in industrial applications.  I would like to
build something that would catch people's attention at trade shows, etc..  I
plan to use PIC processors in anything I build as I have some experience with
them and I am happy with them so far.  I am also considering applications
that may require multiple processors.  Does anyone have any exotic
suggestions?  I have thought of walking spider-like robots, wall climbing
robots, robots with vision systems to track and collect business cards thrown
on a table and such other ideas but could use some additional suggestions.
Thanks for any input.

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel:  (716) 328-5850
Fax:  (716) 328-1144
e-mail:  EraseMEMcorio.....spamaol.com

***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

'spam and list move...'
1995\10\21@192327 by jory bell

face
flavicon
face
The piclist is almost ready to move... but I will be out of the country (in
the UK) for 2 weeks. Till then, try to bear with the annoying potted meat
product (the newest incarnation of which just graced the piclist).

-jory

'Robotic List?'
1995\10\21@203750 by Ben L Wirz

flavicon
face
       If you have news group access, check out comp.robotics.misc.  It
is just what you looking for.  They also have a very good FAQ about
robotics, I.E. supplier and suggestion.  I don't have the WWW address but
it is not hard to find if you do a search, email me if you can't find it.

Ben,
spamblw2KILLspamspam@spam@cec.wustl.edu

On Sat, 21 Oct 1995, Mark A. Corio wrote:

{Quote hidden}

'New PICs..... (rejected by list server).'
1995\10\23@134551 by Paul Greenwood

flavicon
face
This note was initially rejected by the list server even though I had added
the last sentence and my signature line:

>The following PICs with internal analog circuitry are now available.
>16C71   4 A/D channels; 13 I/O; 1K prog; 36 bytes data
>16C72   5 A/D channels; 22 I/O; 2k prog; 128 bytes data; 1 CCP; SPI/I2C
>16C73   5 A/D channels; 22 I/O; 4k prog; 192 btyes data; 2CCP; SPI/I2C; USART
>16C74   8 A/D channels; 22 I/O; 4k prog; 192 btyes data; 2CCP; SPI/I2C; USART
>16C620  2 anaolg comparators; 13 I/O; 1/2k prog; 80 bytes data
>16C621  2 anaolg comparators; 13 I/O; 1k prog; 80 bytes data
>16C622  2 anaolg comparators; 13 I/O; 2k prog; 128 bytes data
>PIC14000 (was MTA 14000) 16 bit slope A/D; 2 logdac outputs; temp sensor -
>originally targeted as a battery management chip, but is much more versatile.
>
>John Magrane
>FAE Bell Industries
>408 734-8570
>RemoveME72712.2347RemoveMEspamcompuserve.com


John,

       Could you tell us how much the PIC14000 is selling for?

--

           -- Paul Greenwood --  (TakeThisOuTpablo@spam@spam@spam@austin.ibm.com)

Drive defensively.  Buy a tank.

'PSIM 'bug list' ? (was:Re: RTCC INTERRUPT AND SLEE'
1995\10\26@051307 by Markus Imhof

flavicon
face
...
>Sure, but contrary to what that substandard simulator shows, it can't
....
BTW, is there somewhere a list of differences between the simulator and the
real part (w/ respect to the '84, mainly) ? I just noticed one other 'bug':
The sim won't preload the EEPROM memory - definitely a drawback if you want
to use this memory to initialize a few random numbers.

Bye
 Markus


'piclist signoff'
1995\11\04@130556 by Jack Davis
flavicon
face
Can someone offer a suggestion on getting disconnected from the list?

Nothing seems to work.

Thanks, Jack

'Spam-light mode for the list'
1995\11\04@131637 by Eric Brewer

flavicon
face
>Date:        Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:50:55 +0100
>From: Eric Thomas <TakeThisOuTERICspamspamSEARN.SUNET.SE>
>Subject:     Re: Mail...
>To: Eric Brewer <KILLspamEricKILLspamspamspamBeGoneEXCELLENT.COM>
>In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:50:54 -0800 from Eric Brewer
>            <spamBeGoneEricKILLspamspamExcellent.com>
>
>Well if you're the list owner you can change it yourself. "Send= Private"
>in the list header.
>
>  Eric

Hi fellow PICers and Jory,

I sent E-Mail to Eric Thomas, the guy who wrote the listserv software, about
our problem. His repsonse is above. Basically, we can make the list private
so only those who are subcribed can post message to the list. While this does
not prevent someone from subscribing and then SPAMming, it does mean
they have to try a little harder.

I am all for it. If you agree, send a message to Jory Bell (the list
maintainer) and
if you want, a yes/no to me. I will keep a count of number ayes/naes if
anyone cares.

cheers,
eric

'piclist signoff'
1995\11\04@132711 by Eric Brewer

flavicon
face
>Can someone offer a suggestion on getting disconnected from the list?
>
>Nothing seems to work.
>
>Thanks, Jack
Send the following message to listserv@spam@spamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu:

signoff piclist

Hope it helps,
eric

'Spam-light mode for the list'
1995\11\04@200005 by Daniel Mahoney

picon face
>
> I am all for it. If you agree, send a message to Jory Bell (the list
> maintainer) and
> if you want, a yes/no to me. I will keep a count of number ayes/naes if
> anyone cares.
>

Absolutely yes!  I'm getting *really* tired of this magazine
subscription shit.  It's getting so old, I don't even bother
to mail-bomb the people involved any more.

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Daniel Mahoney                                          Product Manager
EraseMEdmahoneyRemoveMEspam@spam@netcom.com                       Comarco Wireless Technologies
Riverside, CA                                                Irvine, CA
(909) 360-3647 (home)                                    (714) 450-4076

1995\11\05@180036 by John Payson

flavicon
face
> I sent E-Mail to Eric Thomas, the guy who wrote the listserv software, about
> our problem. His repsonse is above. Basically, we can make the list private
> so only those who are subcribed can post message to the list. While this does
> not prevent someone from subscribing and then SPAMming, it does mean
> they have to try a little harder.
>
> I am all for it. If you agree, send a message to Jory Bell (the list
> maintainer) and
> if you want, a yes/no to me. I will keep a count of number ayes/naes if
> anyone cares.

[sorry this is going to the whole list]

I'm in favor of making the list private, provided that those who are not
on the list receive a "helpful" bounce message [i.e. they get a message which,
if they actually read it, will tell them how to subscribe].

1995\11\06@075123 by Eric Brewer

flavicon
face
>Date:        Mon, 23 Oct 1995 20:50:55 +0100
>From: Eric Thomas <RemoveMEERICspamspamEraseMESEARN.SUNET.SE>
>Subject:     Re: Mail...
>To: Eric Brewer <STOPspamEric.....spamEXCELLENT.COM>
>In-Reply-To: Message of Mon, 23 Oct 1995 12:50:54 -0800 from Eric Brewer
>            <spamBeGoneEricRemoveMEspamRemoveMEExcellent.com>
>
>Well if you're the list owner you can change it yourself. "Send= Private"
>in the list header.
>
>  Eric

Hi fellow PICers and Jory,

I sent E-Mail to Eric Thomas, the guy who wrote the listserv software, about
our problem. His repsonse is above. Basically, we can make the list private
so only those who are subcribed can post message to the list. While this does
not prevent someone from subscribing and then SPAMming, it does mean
they have to try a little harder.

I am all for it. If you agree, send a message to Jory Bell (the list
maintainer) and
if you want, a yes/no to me. I will keep a count of number ayes/naes if
anyone cares.

cheers,
eric

1995\11\06@145525 by adrian

flavicon
picon face
> >   I m wondering if there are any potential disadvantages to making the list
> >   private?
> >  I can t think of any. Does any one else have any ideas?
> >
> >
>
> But of course, do you post from multiple machines?  Most private lists
> I've seen only allow posts from the subscribed address.
>
> Roger (I know, the list knows me as @spam@booksspamBeGonespammis1.mainline.com when in actuality
>        I am spam_OUTbooksspamspamrtssec1.dms.state.fl.us, or even spambooksspamspamspammail.dms.state.fl.us,
>         both the same machine and I'm not sure the machine uses the same
>         one all the time.)
>

Err.. yes, I am on as spamBeGonemicrochipKILLspamspamKILLspamrhanna.demon.co.uk, but I post
from TakeThisOuTadrianspamspamrhanna.demon.co.uk and would not want piclist email
going to my "adrian" address as it would clutter my mailbox.

I suspect private would therefore cause me a problem.

--
_
(_) _| _ . _  _   Tel +44 973 222257
( )(_|(  |(_|| )  Fax UK 0500 222258                    E&OE

'[PICLIST] Sensing RC receiver impulses & PWM motor'
1995\11\07@091938 by Valehrach Roman

flavicon
face
Hi to all PICers out there!

In an attempt to reduce the amount of 'reinfented wheels' (esp. my own's)
I'm looking for some code (preferable with application notes for the circuits)
concering radio control and motor control - preferable with PICs (but no
exlusive):

1. Decoding the servo impulse/s from a RC receiver:
  * preferable a 'self learning' application
  * determination of multiple levels of modulation (centre, and max. would
    certainly be of help for the beginning)
  * 'fail save'-state whilste there is a signal loss/no signal

2. Controlling of a model motor (car/aeroplane):
  * multiple steps of speed/fine control of revolutions
    preferably PWM (pulse width modulation) with a high frequenzy
  * acceleration/deceleration slope (programable)
  * high currents of 50A (standard, with shorttime current of up to 100A)
  * single/dual direction control
  * motorbrake
  * current sensing to detect shorts/blocking motor

I thing it's obvious that I'm trying to build a RC motor controller. Since I
know that many commercial products nowadays have a PIC (I know of 54 or 84)
inside, it should be possible to build such a thing.
my draft for such a device:
  combination of the above (1., 2.)
  PIC 16C84 (still the only one I can program) with information storage
  in internal EEPROM (receiver impuls, slew rate, motor data)
  modular final stage for cars or planes (brake, single/dual direction,
  etc.)

Since there are so many (aren't there?) RC modellers on the list it would be
interesting to share informations/experiences on the subject of using PICs in
RC models (in the whole and motor controllers especially).

With the minimal research I have done so far I also encountered some questions:
* What is the best way to do multiple tasks with a PIC (esp. 16C84)?
 Ex.: In a motor controller I would have to watch for the incomming impulses
      whilst pulse width modulating a motor, sensing the current, etc.
      To bad if I'm stuck in a wait loop... (If you know what I mean :-)
      Since I want to use the 84 - How do I put the interrupts to best use?
* Which (power) transistors should I use in the final stage?
  BUZ11 looks promissing.. but SIPMOS TEMPFETs/PROFETs/TOPFETs also look good
  (though a much higher price, but temperature/shorts protection)
  What would be the "best" transistor for my task ? (low Rds[on] <50mOhm,
  Id[max] >20A, reasonable pricing/pice, etc.)

  BTW: I bought some BUZ11 which have an 'A' mark on the cooling metal.
       Does that mean that those FETs are in fact BUZ11As and not BUZ11s.
       The plastic housing has printed 'BUZ11' on it (NO A) but what about
       the mark on the metal... ???
       What's the best way to measure the Rds[on] with hobbiest equipment
       (some DVMs [not acurate in mOhms-Measuring], Scope [10MHz])?


Finaly you might ask yourself, why I don't buy one of those commercial juwels
(Ahh.. controllers)?
A. Inflexibility: ('Please define [in-]flex-i-bil-i-ty... Ahh')
  Commercial controllers are trimmed for a single task. If I want to
  control a model car and a model aeroplane I would have to buy two
  controllers <cliiing>, although I wouldn't use both models at the same time.
  It's allmost impossible to find a controller which is really adequat for the
  given task. 'Testing a controller ? - Impossible - buy it first!' <cling>
  I also want to control the slew rate ('Expensive... 8-]' <cling,cling>) of
  the motor with my PC ('Impossible... :-(').

B. The Price: (Isn't it allways ?)
  As I wrote above - RC motor controllers are sold at the price of juwels.
  But a diamond wouldn't explode/burn out if you connect the power supply
the     wrong way - And who didn't/doesn't make mistakes. Such controllers also
  age at a rapid speed (Every year there is something new). If the nowadays
controller is damaged nobody but the manufactorer will repair it (time delay,
  prohibitive cost). So it's off to the bank to get a new loan.

C. Experience:
  I'm still very new to the PICs. I know it will be a hard way to a functinal
  unit but I certainly will learn my share.
  With the knowledge gained I could easily repair the RC motor controller :-)
  Thus *no more garbage collection* for high tech stuff! ;-)
  And ... 'What you know You KNOW.'

Thanks in advance for your response(s)!

****************************************************************************
*   Roman VALEHRACH               eMail-to: spamBeGonee8927070spamstudent.tuwien.ac.at  *
*   student of technical university vienna     (subject of annual change)  *
*                                                                          *
*  "SHARE AND ENJOY, SHARE AND ENJOY... "               furry creatures  ->*
*  "The EARTH: ..... (ed., revised: MOSTLY) HARMLESS"   from alpha-centaur *
*  "Say.. is there ANY tea on THIS ship ?"              (footprints)       *
****************************************************************************

1995\11\07@114331 by Conny Andersson

flavicon
face
At 15.16 1995-11-07 +0100, Roman VALEHRACH wrote:

>Hi to all PICers out there!

Oh my, what a letter, almost as long as a spam ;)

-- chop --- chop --

>* What is the best way to do multiple tasks with a PIC (esp. 16C84)?

Use a "state" variable to control where you are in each task and execute
each task in turn via some time sharing scheme, e.g. 2ms for you, 5ms for
you and so on. To control time, you can setup a timer to count down to zero
and then generate an interrupt - set a flag and the current task will finish
what it's doing when the task checks this flag. Each critical input (such as
waveform period measurements) could generate interrupts on selected edges
and store these measurements for further processing in the appropriate task(s).

Just some thoughts ... hope it gives you some new ideas ...

>* Which (power) transistors should I use in the final stage?

I say, read the specifications and look at some examples in the data sheets.
Then try it out on a protoboard (maybe not 20A though).

To measure Rds[on] you can setup a test circuit with high power resistors
and try it out in practise. I did so when I started to build a mega led
display with over 1000 leds and controlled by the well-known Z80-processor.
(The project is currently on halt, I wonder why?)

-- chop --- chop --

>C. Experience:
>   I'm still very new to the PICs. I know it will be a hard way to a functinal
>   unit but I certainly will learn my share.

A small advice ... start with a simple project to learn the basics. I
started with the '54 and I was surprised how much code you actually could
fill it with.


-- Conny

1995\11\07@120021 by Mark A. Corio

picon face
What kind of RC model needs 50 or 100 Amps of current?  Even at 9-volts thats
into the horsepower range!!!

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel:  (716) 328-5850
Fax:  (716) 328-1144
e-mail:  EraseMEMcorioEraseMEspamaol.com

***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

1995\11\07@135127 by Scott Stephens

picon face
>What kind of RC model needs 50 or 100 Amps of current?  Even at 9-volts thats
>into the horsepower range!!!

The Kalt Whisper electric RC helicopter takes around 35 Amps (average), at
9.6 volts. It only flies for 6 minutes. People I've talked with say
performance just isn't comparable to gas motors. Maybe soon Zinc-air or some
other fuel-cell technology will make electric airplanes and helicopters a
bit more practical. The speed controller in the helicopter ad has 8 TO-220
power FET tabs protruding from its case.

1995\11\07@135134 by Scott Stephens

picon face
>I'm looking for some code (preferable with application notes for the circuits)
>concering radio control and motor control - preferable with PICs (but no
>exlusive):
>
The Circuit Cellar BBS (860) 871-1988, has the file SERVOPIC.ZIP in File
Area 1 from the October 1994, Issue #51
magazine. You may be able to get it from their web site. The code is for PWM
multiple servo's.

>1. Decoding the servo impulse/s from a RC receiver:
>   * preferable a 'self learning' application
>   * determination of multiple levels of modulation (centre, and max. would
>     certainly be of help for the beginning)
>   * 'fail save'-state whilste there is a signal loss/no signal

It might be better to use PIC to modulate and demodulate your signal,
tapping the receiver's comparator output and your transmitters modulation
input. That way, you can employ error detection and correction codes in
firmware.

>* What is the best way to do multiple tasks with a PIC (esp. 16C84)?
>  Ex.: In a motor controller I would have to watch for the incomming impulses
>       whilst pulse width modulating a motor, sensing the current, etc.
>       To bad if I'm stuck in a wait loop... (If you know what I mean :-)
>       Since I want to use the 84 - How do I put the interrupts to best use?

Read Microchip's AP-Note AN-585 "A real-Time Operating System for PIC16/17".
Read about state-machine design in a textbook. The April 92 Computer
Applications Journal has a good article on state-machine design.

>        What's the best way to measure the Rds[on] with hobbiest equipment
>        (some DVMs [not acurate in mOhms-Measuring], Scope [10MHz])?

I would observe the voltage drop across the FET, motor and batteries in
operation. Then use the series current to determine where the power is going.

I'm interested in a good power FET too. I don't like high-side drives &
charge pumps.

1995\11\07@135319 by Timothy McDonough DIAL UP1

flavicon
face
Many of the high performance airplanes such as the sailplanes flown in
F5B competition and even larger sport models use 18-26 cells and draw
50 amps plus. Some of the F5B racers will drain a 20+ cell pack of 1700
mAh batteries in 20 seconds or so.

Tim

On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Mark A. Corio wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1995\11\07@135935 by Maurizio Conti

flavicon
face
At 15.16 07/11/95 +0100, you wrote:

>.....* What is the best way to do multiple tasks with a PIC (esp. 16C84)?

I have done much experience with the multitask problem .
The good results have obtained them using the technique of the finite state
machine.

Maurizio Conti                           / __  __  __       / ___ ____
spammcontispamiper.net                         / /__)/_  /__) /\  / /_    /
http://www.iper.net                    / /   /__ / \  /  \/ /___  /
                                                    /
------------------------------------------------------------------

1995\11\08@023210 by SONY-OD

flavicon
face
>I'm looking for some code (preferable with application notes for the circuits)
>concering radio control and motor control - preferable with PICs (but no
>exlusive):
>

I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
since 2 months - no crash !!! -
If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
you the whole document.
I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
8031.

 Philippe TECHER at "RemoveMEsonyedeKILLspamspamKILLspamiway.fr"

1995\11\08@040340 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

flavicon
face
G'day,

> If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
> you the whole document.

I'd indeed be very interested in seeing this. Please post it - or if you like
you can upload it to our ftp site (ftp.hitech.com.au) and we can make
it available from there.

Regards, Clyde

--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs       | HI-TECH Software,       | Voice: +61 7 3300 5011
EraseMEclydespamBeGonespamspamhitech.com.au      | P.O. Box 103, Alderley, | Fax:   +61 7 3300 5246
http://www.hitech.com.au  | QLD, 4051, AUSTRALIA.   | BBS:   +61 7 3300 5235
                   HI-TECH C: Compiling the real world...

1995\11\08@085013 by SONY-OD

flavicon
face
From:
 Philippe at "KILLspamsonyedespamiway.fr" FRANCE.


>I'm looking for some code (preferable with application notes for the circuits)
>concering radio control and motor control - preferable with PICs (but no
>exlusive):
>

I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
since 2 months - no crash !!! -
If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
you the whole document.
I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
8031.

1995\11\09@203714 by William D. McMillan

picon face
I'd be interested.  What formats are the documents in?

1995\11\10@115230 by Valehrach Roman

flavicon
face
William D. McMillan wrote:
>I'd be interested.  What formats are the documents in?

Did I miss something here ? After my original REQUEST FOR code I only got
William's response. Did someone else respond with a message saying that he
actually HAS code? Please enlighten me on that matter. (William ?) :-)


BTW I solved the BUZ11 (with 'A'-mark) problem...
To make a long story short - They ARE BUZ11s <hurray>

(the 'a bit longer' story... ;-)
One might be suprised what hobbyists have in their most hidden drawers.
I remembered that I build a constant current regulator (from a printed article)
and actually found it in it's hidding place :-)
So I but the current regulator in between a strong power source and the drain
of the BUZ11. After applying the sufficient ON-voltage at the BUZ's gate I
set the regulator to 1 Amp. and measured the voltage between Drain and Source...
35 mV -> 35 mOhm (plus 10% error with my DMV make less than 40 mOhm)
=> BUZ11 specs
(First I measured the voltage with about 2 cm of wire in between, only got
72 mV, my... what 2 cm can do to measurment :-[ )

Bye for now...
Have a nice weekend :-)
I'm going to bug my RC receiver to determine if I can't decode some pulses...
:-)

****************************************************************************
*   Roman VALEHRACH               eMail-to: e8927070spam_OUTspamspamstudent.tuwien.ac.at  *
*   student of technical university vienna     (subject of annual change)  *
*                                                                          *
*  "SHARE AND ENJOY, SHARE AND ENJOY... "               furry creatures  ->*
*  "The EARTH: ..... (ed., revised: MOSTLY) HARMLESS"   from alpha-centaur *
*  "Say.. is there ANY tea on THIS ship ?"              (footprints)       *
****************************************************************************

1995\11\10@120511 by Preben Granberg

flavicon
face
>>I'm looking for some code (preferable with application notes for the circuits)
>>concering radio control and motor control - preferable with PICs (but no
>>exlusive):
>>
>
>I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
>This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
>a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
>since 2 months - no crash !!! -
>If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
>you the whole document.
>I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
>8031.
>
>  Philippe TECHER at "sonyedespamspam@spam@iway.fr"
>

Please, one copy to me to !!!

Preben
Creative Micro
Hinbjerg 38
DK-2690 Karlslunde
Denmark
Tel +45 4615 4655
Fax +45 4215 3977

'New Resource for List'
1995\11\11@215818 by sureshot

flavicon
face
                 FREE Long Distance for Life ??

      Learn how to ZERO OUT your Long Distance Telephone Bill.

                    *** EXPLOSIVE PROGRAM ***

             Will EARN you $13,700.00 plus monthly!!!!

          CALL our toll FREE hotline TODAY - DON'T DELAY!

                   1(800) 684-8253 Ext.7283

'How do I get digest of this list?'
1995\11\14@222729 by Dave Kingma

flavicon
face
Sorry to clutter the airwaves with what seems to be an
easy question, but I cannot find a way to get messages
from this list sent to me periodically in digest form.
I checked the LISTSERV help and the PICLIST intro e-mail
and have found nothing.  Is there a way to do this so
I don't have to wade through numerous messages?

Thanks,
Dave
spamBeGonedkingma.....spambev.net

'[PICLIST] Sensing RC receiver impulses & PWM motor'
1995\11\16@073047 by Tony Chilton

flavicon
face
>
> I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
> This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
> a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
> since 2 months - no crash !!! -
> If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
> you the whole document.
> I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
> 8031.
>
>   Philippe TECHER at ".....sonyede@spam@spamiway.fr"
>

I would appreciate a copy

regards

Tony Chilton

1995\11\16@090619 by EFBRYA

flavicon
face
>
> I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
> This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
> a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
> since 2 months - no crash !!! -
> If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
> you the whole document.
> I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
> 8031.
>
>   Philippe TECHER at "@spam@sonyedespamiway.fr"
>

I like a copy

Thanks!

Eric Bryan
efbryaRemoveMEspamacxiom.com

1995\11\16@232936 by Joel Carvajal

flavicon
face
>
> I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
> This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
> a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
> since 2 months - no crash !!! -
> If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
> you the whole document.
> I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
> 8031.
>
>   Philippe TECHER at "spamsonyedespamiway.fr"
>

I like a copy

Thanks!

Joel R. Carvajal
joelspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTtds.pfi.net

1995\11\18@100402 by wurmfeld

picon face
Hi, I am looking for just a link, I am currently modifing my son's toy
school bus with a motor and lights... I was looking at infrared to control
it. Perhaps what you have can also do the trick. Please EMAIl me the details
to spam_OUTdavidw@spam@spamRemoveMEggx.com.


Many Thanks,
David.

1995\11\18@104216 by Mohamad Shalan

flavicon
face
I am interested in the infrared control. Let me know if u
get anything

       bye,
       shalan.

1995\11\18@213711 by A.Perkins

flavicon
face
At 08:30 AM 11/8/95 +0100, you wrote:

>I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
>This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
>a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
>since 2 months - no crash !!! -
>If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
>you the whole document.
>I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
>8031.
>
>  Philippe TECHER at "spamsonyedespamspamiway.fr"
>

I'd love to get a copy.

Thanks  AP

'Is the list alive?'
1995\11\21@012435 by mauricio

flavicon
face
Hi!

I did not receive any mail form the piclist last 5 days.
I'm just asking, is the list alive, or is there something else
going on?

Max

1995\11\21@012435 by mauricio

flavicon
face
Hi!

I did not receive any mail form the piclist last 5 days.
I'm just asking, is the list alive, or is there something else
going on?

Max

1995\11\22@024202 by mauricio

flavicon
face
Thanx to all...
Max

'PICLIST Digest - 23 Nov 1995 to 24 Nov 1995'
1995\11\25@093611 by David Baker

flavicon
face
> From:    Nick Howard <@spam@CHP3HOWARNJspam_OUTspamNTU.AC.UK>
> Subject: Re: PIC Textbook
>
> Does anyone know of a supplier of Scott Edwards PIC sourcebook in the UK???

You can order directly from Scott - I received mine in Malaysia a couple of
days after placing an order by email.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - .....davidspam.....baker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - spamdavidKILLspamspamgmetra.po.my |
|                          |  Fax                  - 60-3-2612870       |
|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


'HELP with GET from piclist!'
1995\12\02@195341 by Juan Abba
flavicon
face
Can someone please tell me is the GET procedure from =
RemoveMELISTSERVRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
had changed.??????
Two months ago I was able to get the entire month list activity using=
something like the following
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
II     To: KILLspamLISTSERV.....spamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU                                          =
                         II
II     From: juanabbaspam_OUTspamspam_OUTax.ibase.org.br (JuanJose Abba)                       =
                         II
II     Subject:                                                             =
                                                      II
II                                                                          =
                                                           II
II     GET  PICLIST  LOG9508                                                =
                                       II
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
I am trying the same command  for some weeks now. and I am nor getting any=
kind of answer
from the system.   The files do not come, neither a rejection to my request,

on the other hand, other commands to same LIST are still working, as you can=
see from the
system answer to an shown as follows;=7F
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
II     From: BITNET list server at MITVMA <KILLspamLISTSERVspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> (1.8a)=
II
II     Subject: File: "PICLIST FILELIST"                                    =
                                       II
II     To: Juan Jose Abba <@spam@juanabbaRemoveMEspamAX.IBASE.ORG.BR>                        =
                    II
II     X-Envelope-to: juanabba@spam@spamEraseMEAX.IBASE.ORG.BR                              =
                         II
II                                                                          =
                                                               II
II     *  PICLIST FILELIST for LISTSERV@MITVMA.                             =
                       II
II     *                                                                    =
                                                              II
II     *  Archives for list PICLIST (pic microcontroller discussion list)   =
                          II
II     *                                                                    =
                                                              II
II     *  The GET/PUT authorization codes shown with each file entry=
describe                 II
II     *  who is authorized to GET or PUT the file:                         =
                                     II
II     *                                                                    =
                                                              II
II     *     ALL =3D Everybody                                              =
                                                  II
II     *     OWN =3D List owners                                            =
                                                 II
II     *                                                                    =
                                                              II
II     *  NOTEBOOK archives for the list                                    =
                                       II
II     *  (Monthly notebook)                                                =
                                                 II
II     *                             rec               last - change        =
                                                     II
II     * filename filetype   GET PUT -fm lrecl nrecs   date     time        =
                              II
II     * -------- --------   --- --- --- ----- ----- -------- --------      =
                                          II
II       PICLIST  LOG9408    ALL OWN V      80  2857 95/01/17 06:39:39      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9409    ALL OWN V      80  3980 95/01/17 06:39:03      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9410    ALL OWN V      80  3202 95/01/17 06:38:40      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9411    ALL OWN V      80  9202 95/01/17 06:37:57      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9412    ALL OWN V      88  8735 95/01/17 06:36:13      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9501    ALL OWN V      84 14310 95/01/31 21:36:3       =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9502    ALL OWN V      84 10909 95/02/28 11:216        =
                  II
II       PICLIST  LOG9503    ALL OWN V      84  9667 95/03/31 18:4:35       =
                   II
II       PICLIST  LOG9504    ALL OWN V      84  7475 95/04/30 19:01:10      =
                  II
II       PICLIST  LOG9505    ALL OWN V      92 11489 95/05/31 21:09:50      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9506    ALL OWN V      84 17833 95/06/30 18:45:54      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9507    ALL OWN V      84 12592 95/07/31 21:53:45      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9508    ALL OWN V      86 17609 95/08/31 15:50:55      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9509    ALL OWN V      80 17332 95/09/30 23:55:27      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9510    ALL OWN V      83  4101 95/10/05 19:29:21      =
                  II
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------------------
can somebody explain what am I  doing wrong
juanabba
=20

1995\12\02@211622 by Juan Abba

flavicon
face
As the file format was partially lost during manipulation, I am sending
it again.  Sorry for the inconvinience.


{Quote hidden}

1995\12\03@204136 by Przemek Klosowski

flavicon
face
One person writes
  >Can someone please tell me is the GET procedure from
  > LISTSERVEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU had changed.??????
  >
Fifteen other persons write
  > UNSUBSCRIBE

I get a stern 'reject' message every time I post to the list.


Man, I really wish we agreed to having a newsgroup...

                       przemek klosowski (EraseMEprzemekspamspamBeGonenist.gov)
                       Reactor Division (bldg. 235), E111
                       National Institute of Standards and Technology
                       Gaithersburg, MD 20899,      USA

                       (301) 975 6249

1995\12\04@221145 by William D. McMillan

picon face
Ditto.  I'm trying to unsubscribe this account so I can get it transfered to
my .edu address, but no dice so far.  The SIGNOFF PICLIST command doesn't
work so far.

1995\12\09@083832 by Juan Abba

flavicon
face
Following message was sent twice already,  and no one from the LIST
administration had said a word about it.
IS THERE SOMEBODY THAT HAS AN ADDRESS I CAN E-MAIL TO IN ORDER  TO ESCALATE THE
PROBLEM????
thanks
TakeThisOuTjuanabbaspamTakeThisOuTax.apc.org (Juan Abba)

{Quote hidden}

1995\12\09@161032 by rrose

flavicon
face
> Following message was sent twice already,  and no one from the LIST
>  administration had said a word about it.
> IS THERE SOMEBODY THAT HAS AN ADDRESS I CAN E-MAIL TO IN ORDER  TO ESCALATE
THE
>  PROBLEM????

I too have sent a message to the sysop requesting help on this
problem.  I too have yet to get a response.

Richard Rosenheim
rroseTakeThisOuTspamspamBeGoneaccessnv.com

1995\12\12@171256 by ellis

flavicon
picon face
On Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:10:06 -0500, you wrote:

>_Ditto.  I'm trying to unsubscribe this account so I can get it transfered to
>_my .edu address, but no dice so far.  The SIGNOFF PICLIST command doesn't
>_work so far.

When I changed from office e-mail address to home, I signed off from
the office with :

To : spamlistservTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu

signoff piclist local

There is no need to have a subject line or anything else.


Ellis Skinazi                                     Everything in excess,
Internet : .....ellisspamspamBeGoneellski.demon.co.uk                 moderation is for monks.
Compuserve : 74003,3574

1995\12\17@194251 by Juan Abba

flavicon
face
For more than a month, I am trying to get the October and later the November
PICLIST archives.
As GET is not working I have asked for help the PICLIST as well as the list
owner at two different address,(  .....joryTakeThisOuTspamEraseMEmit.edu       and   RemoveMEjoryspamspamKILLspamfigment.mit.edu
    (jory bell)
but I still with no hints of what may be happening, except some suggestions " to
send the HELP request to a different address, which of course I am
doing,(STOPspamLISTSERVEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU)."
the message I sent to jory at both address above, is as follows, but no answer
to it do far.

ANY SUGESTION   ??????
Juanabba


Hi Jory, are you getting our messages at all????
attached one was sent a week ago
juanabba

Hi, Jory
this is my message asking for help on the GET command that does not work
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Following message was sent twice already,  and no one from the LIST
>  administration had said a word about it.
> IS THERE SOMEBODY THAT HAS AN ADDRESS I CAN E-MAIL TO IN ORDER  TO ESCALATE
THE
>  PROBLEM????

this is from another user
------------------------------
I too have sent a message to the sysop requesting help on this
problem.  I too have yet to get a response.

Richard Rosenheim
rrosespamBeGonespamaccessnv.com

'DUPLICATE PICLIST MESSAGES (was: "Floppy drive spe'
1995\12\18@232042 by Andrew Warren

flavicon
face
Adam Eberbach <adam@spam@spamDATAPLEX.COM.AU> wrote:

> This message is being 're-forwarded' - the list thinks I'm sending a
> duplicate. Dumb list.

   So let me get this straight, Adam...

   The list server tells you that you've already sent two copies of
   the message, and your response is to send yet another copy and
   call the LIST dumb?  Hmm...

   I've posted this message about three times so far... Here it is
   again:

       READ THIS IF YOU'RE GETTING "DUPLICATE MESSAGE" WARNINGS
       FROM THE "PICLIST" LIST SERVER:

       The list server software includes a helpful feature which
       screens out duplicate messages.  If your mailreader program
       (or your brain) takes a vacation and you accidentally send a
       hundred copies of a single message to the list, the list
       server will bounce all the duplicates back to you with a
       warning.  This is a good thing.

       However...

       There's a bug in the PICLIST's list server software:
       Occasionally, you'll get a "duplicate message" warning when
       you've only posted one copy of your message.

       IGNORE THIS WARNING.  DO NOT RE-SEND YOUR MESSAGE!

       Think for a second:  Even if the warning WERE valid, it
       would still mean that at least one copy of your message DID
       make it to the list.

   If you don't trust the list server to handle your mail properly,
   send a message to the list server with the following body text:

               SET PICLIST REPRO

       This will make the list server send a copy of your messages
       to you, as well as to everyone else on the PICLIST.

       Ok...

> > > I may be a little off topic, but does anyone know how to get a
> > > floppy drive to spin at 750 rpm. I am using old 5.25 drives, the
> > > motor seems to have a comparator and bridge driver, but the
> > > adjusment pot makes little difference.

   Most old 5.25 drives run at around 300 RPM, and the adjustment
   pot only affects this speed by (maybe) 10 percent either way.  I'm
   not surprised that you can't get yours to adjust to 750.

   If you're aware of this and trying to double the speed for a
   reason (or if your drive is really supposed to run at 750 RPM)
   you can certainly make it run at whatever speed you like.

   If, on the other hand, you're just trying to get a broken drive
   to work, perhaps you should try adjusting the speed to 300 RPM
   and seeing whether that fixes it.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - spam_OUTfastfwdspamspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geopages.com/SiliconValley/2499

1995\12\19@002059 by Ian Stirling

flavicon
face
I've seen the list send me a 'duplicate message recieved' when I've
only sent one, defiantely a bug somewhere.
--
Ian Stirling.                        |  http://web.students.stir.ac.uk/~is06
AKA Caeser, Bolonewbie.              |  Pretty sad at the moment, should get
                                    |  better tho.

1995\12\19@003137 by Adam Eberbach

flavicon
face
Forwarded message:
> > This message is being 're-forwarded' - the list thinks I'm sending a
> > duplicate. Dumb list.
>
>     So let me get this straight, Adam...
>
>     The list server tells you that you've already sent two copies of
>     the message, and your response is to send yet another copy and
>     call the LIST dumb?  Hmm...

No, the list is still dumb. The post which was supposedly a duplicate was
my first in months. I sent another copy because the list told me that my
first post was rejected. To accept and propagate the message while telling
me that it did the opposite is clearly and unequivocably dumb.

>         Think for a second:  Even if the warning WERE valid, it
>         would still mean that at least one copy of your message DID
>         make it to the list.

To the list server, not necessarily to the list.

Anyway, back to disk drives. I guess the original poster wants 750 rpm for
some reason? You're right, they are 300 rpm so the floppy drive probably
won't work. It might be a lot easier to take a hard disk (which will have a
higher speed) and try to find some multiple of 750 - if you found a 1500 or
3000 rpm drive you'd be laughing. Either add a sensor trigger to the platter or
wherever it's mounted, or delete some of the pulses coming from the speed
sensor.

Adam Eberbach, R&D Engineer, Dataplex Pty. Ltd.

1995\12\19@010123 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

flavicon
face
Andrew Warren wrote:

>         There's a bug in the PICLIST's list server software:
>         Occasionally, you'll get a "duplicate message" warning when
>         you've only posted one copy of your message.

Occasionally my foot! It happens EVERY time. And I can well understand
that the first time it happens, the confused poster thinks, because he
is told so, that his message has NOT been posted, because the list
server THINKS it is the same as another recent message. He knows very
well it is not the same as another recent message, but it's stretching
that a bit far to be able to deduce that the list server is lying about
the fact that the message was not posted. And the message suggests
you change the posting slightly and repost it! So I don't think you
can criticize those who do that once too much - they're only doing
as told.

The solution, of course, is to FIX THE SERVER! But of course, we don't
live in a perfect world - we put up with MS-Dross for so long, why
shouldn't we put up with a brain-dead list server as well?

I apologize for venting my spleen, but really, let's be clear about
where the problem is - does the welcome message for the Piclist include
a note about the "idosyncracies" of the server?

It reminds me of the chip manufacturer who wanted a software manual
revised to eliminate references to "limitations" of the processor
architecture - they were to be referred to as "features" or "characteristics"
and if the software gave the hardware a helping hand it was "enhancing"
not "compensating".

>         IGNORE THIS WARNING.  DO NOT RE-SEND YOUR MESSAGE!

What about this warning - should it be ignored too? Oh, wait, this is
from a fallible human - it must be gospel.



--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs       | HI-TECH Software,       | Voice: +61 7 3300 5011
clydespam_OUTspamRemoveMEhitech.com.au      | P.O. Box 103, Alderley, | Fax:   +61 7 3300 5246
http://www.hitech.com.au  | QLD, 4051, AUSTRALIA.   | BBS:   +61 7 3300 5235
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
FREE! Download our shareware (FREE for noncommercial use) MS-DOS C Compiler!
            Point your Web browser at http://www.hitech.com.au/

'HELP with GET from piclist!'
1995\12\19@070554 by William Kitchen

flavicon
face
Juan Abba wrote:
>
> For more than a month, I am trying to get the October and later the November
>  PICLIST archives.......snip.....
>
> ANY SUGESTION   ??????
> Juanabba

Hello Juan,

I don't know about the GET command (I've never tried to use it), but you can
access
PIC-list back mail on the WWW using a request form at
http://pasture.ecn.purdue.edu/~laird/MLists/

Willaim Kitchen

'DUPLICATE PICLIST MESSAGES (was: "Floppy drive spe'
1995\12\19@074413 by William Kitchen

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face
Andrew Warren wrote:
>         There's a bug in the PICLIST's list server software:
>         Occasionally, you'll get a "duplicate message" warning when
>         you've only posted one copy of your message.
Thanks, Andy.  I was wondering why I was getting the duplicate message
warnings for messages that I could almost swear I only sent once.  I
thought that maybe my mail software was doing something strange or that I
had perhaps set something up wrong.

William Kitchen

'HELP with GET from piclist!'
1995\12\19@123943 by Juan Jose Abba

flavicon
face
Willaim
Thanks a lot for taking your time to help.
As my Internet provider is very poor except on E-mail, is there a way to get the
PICLIST files for each complete month (  using E-Mail ) with just one command
from the WWW????
thanks again

Juan Abba

{Quote hidden}

Willaim Kitchen
>
>

1995\12\19@134737 by William Kitchen

flavicon
face
Juan Jose Abba wrote:
>
> Willaim
> Thanks a lot for taking your time to help.
> As my Internet provider is very poor except on E-mail, is there a way to get
the
>  PICLIST files for each complete month (  using E-Mail ) with just one command
>  from the WWW????
> thanks again
>
> Juan Abba

Hello Juan, I tried sending commands to the list server just to see what would
happen.  I sent the "INDEX PICLIST" command first to the address
spamlistservspamBeGonespammitvma.bitnet that is mentioned in the message that I first received
from
the list server. The message was returned as undeliverable.  I then tried
sending
it to the other address, spamlistservRemoveMEspammitvma.mit.edu and it worked ok.  Then I sent
the
"GET PICLIST LOG9512" command to this same address and it returned the
appropriate
mail archive just as it should have.  So the first address mentioned in the
instructions from the list server is invalid, but the alternate address works.
I
don't know if this is what was causing problems for you, but it could be.
Anyway,
I hope this information helps.

Good luck,

William Kitchen

1995\12\19@153408 by Lee Jones

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face
On Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:45:04 -0800, William Kitchen wrote:

> I tried sending commands to the list server just to see what would
> happen.  I sent the "INDEX PICLIST" command first to the address
> KILLspamlistservspam_OUTspamspam_OUTmitvma.bitnet [...] The message was returned as undeliverable.

Who returned the mail?  MIT -- I doubt it.  Or you local mail router
because it didn't know how to route to the BITNET domain.

> [then I tried] listservspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu and it worked ok. [...] So the
> first address mentioned in the instructions from the list server is invalid

Please don't confuse people.  Because an address is invalid for you does
not mean it is invalid for everyone.

BITNET and the Internet are two, disjoint nationwide networks.  They use
different protocols.  BITNET is based on large IBM mainframe computers.
I believe MITVMA is a big IBM.  And it is probably directly connected to
both BITNET and the Internet.  As an aside, BITNET is shrinking (some
would say losing out to the Internet).

Depending on connectivity of the SENDER's (i.e. your) machine, either
or both addresses may work.  If you're on the Internet and need to get
to a BITNET only node, you can route via interbit.cren.net for email.
I expect "mitvma%spamBeGonebitnetspamspamspamBeGoneinterbit.cren.net" would work.

                                               Lee Jones

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jones Computer Communications             @spam@leespamspamspam_OUTfrumble.claremont.edu
509 Black Hills Dr, Claremont, CA 91711         voice: 909-621-9008
-------------------------------------------------------------------

1995\12\19@233958 by William Kitchen

flavicon
face
> On Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:45:04 -0800, William Kitchen wrote:
>
> > I tried sending commands to the list server just to see what would
> > happen.  I sent the "INDEX PICLIST" command first to the address
> > KILLspamlistservspamKILLspammitvma.bitnet [...] The message was returned as undeliverable.
>
> Who returned the mail?  MIT -- I doubt it.  Or you local mail router
> because it didn't know how to route to the BITNET domain.

Yes, it was the local mail router.  I don't think MIT would have described
the problem as being "undeliverable".

> BITNET and the Internet are two, disjoint nationwide networks.  They use
> different protocols.  BITNET is based on large IBM mainframe computers.
> I believe MITVMA is a big IBM.  And it is probably directly connected to
> both BITNET and the Internet.  As an aside, BITNET is shrinking (some
> would say losing out to the Internet).

Thanks for clearing that up.  But nonetheless, it is possible this
difference could account for some of the difficulty that some may have with
getting the list server to respond to commands.

William Kitchen

1995\12\20@091324 by Siegfried Grob

flavicon
face
> As my Internet provider is very poor except on E-mail, is there a way to get
the
> PICLIST files for each complete month (  using E-Mail ) with just one command
> from the WWW????
> thanks again

> Juan Abba

try sending (as an example:)
       GET PICLIST LOG9508
                      ^^^^
                      this is the year and month
to
       KILLspamLISTSERVspamspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

and you will get one huge email with all mails of August 95.


Siggi

1995\12\20@091324 by Siegfried Grob

flavicon
face
> As my Internet provider is very poor except on E-mail, is there a way to get
the
> PICLIST files for each complete month (  using E-Mail ) with just one command
> from the WWW????
> thanks again

> Juan Abba

try sending (as an example:)
       GET PICLIST LOG9508
                      ^^^^
                      this is the year and month
to
       LISTSERVKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU

and you will get one huge email with all mails of August 95.


Siggi

'DUPLICATE PICLIST MESSAGES (was: "Floppy drive spe'
1995\12\20@220223 by John Payson

flavicon
face
> No, the list is still dumb. The post which was supposedly a duplicate was
> my first in months. I sent another copy because the list told me that my
> first post was rejected. To accept and propagate the message while telling
> me that it did the opposite is clearly and unequivocably dumb.

I have a very strong suspicion that there is an address subscribed to the
list which is improperly bouncing messages such that the server doesn't
recognize them as bounces.  Thus, the sequence is:

 Your message goes to server
 It goes from there to everyone, including the failing address
 The failed address bounces
 The server sees the bounce and generates a "duplicate posting" message
   which it then sends to you [apparently the machine at the bad address
   munged the addresses in the message such that the server thought its
   bounce came from you].
 You see the "duplicate posting" message . . .

I think the best solution to this problem would probably be for the list
maintainer to send a message to all people on the list asking them NOT to
reply if they received the message, with the From: and Reply-to: set to
the list maintainer (not the list itself!).  This would then allow the
person maintaining the list to identify any addresses which are bouncing
and unsubscribe them from the list.

Does anyone see any problems with this strategy?

1995\12\20@233833 by Andrew Warren

flavicon
face
John Payson wrote:

> I think the best solution to this problem would probably be for the
> list maintainer to send a message to all people on the list ....
>
> Does anyone see any problems with this strategy?

   Just one, John...

   Jory Bell, the list maintainer, left the country a couple of
   months ago and is apparently still abroad; he doesn't seem to
   have checked in to the list since he left.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwdspamBeGonespamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geopages.com/SiliconValley/2499

'PICLIST Digest - 26 Dec 1995 to 27 Dec 1995; PIC E'
1995\12\28@051251 by John Fairall

flavicon
face
PIC IN CIRCUIT EMULATOR

As you may know, Amar Palacherla was the original designer responsible for
the PIC Master at Microchip Tech, several years ago. I was theN. European
Application Engineer before beconimg the Regional Manager for ASIA Pacific.

After Leaving Microchip, Amar and I got together to design a new version of
emulator
for the PIC16CXX, under contract from Microchip.

We now have the ICEPIC16CXX. We believe it is the best emulator on the
market particularly at the price.
It is a ful real time emulator operating under Windows, with a complete
Integrated Development Environment (includes source level debug for
assembler and "c"), with a serial port interface for notebook users.

For further information and DEMO SOFTWARE, please see our web page on

http://www.stph.net/icepic

For European customers, the ICEPIC meets the new CE compliance.

Prices are as follows;

PART NO         THIS IS AN EMULATOR AND DAUGHTER
               BOARD FOR THE FOLLOWING PICS              US$
ICEPIC5X                                   16C5X
     748.80
ICEPIC64                               16C62,16C64
      827.84
ICEPIC74                       16C63, 16C65, 16C73, 16C74
852.80
ICEPIC71                                   16C71
    794.56
ICEPIC84                                   16C84
    794.56
ICEPIC62X                  16C62X
794.56
ICEPIC       EMULATOR WITHOUT DAUGHTER BRD              520.00

PART NO         THESE ARE ADD ON DAUGHTER BOARDS
                  FOR THE FOLLOWING PICS                                    US$
ICEPIC-DB5X                 16C5X
  249.60
ICEPIC-DB64                 16C62, 16C64                                   307.8
4
ICEIPIC-DB74    16C63, 16C65, 16C73, 16C74                                 332.8
0
ICEPIC-DB71                 16C71
  274.56
ICEPIC-DB84                 16C84
  274.56
ICEPIC-DB62X                16C62X
274.56


best regards John Fairall







best regards

John Fairall

1995\12\28@053204 by John Fairall

flavicon
face
PIC IN CIRCUIT EMULATOR

As you may know, Amar Palacherla was the original designer responsible for
the PIC Master at Microchip Tech, several years ago. I was theN. European
Application Engineer before beconimg the Regional Manager for ASIA Pacific.

After Leaving Microchip, Amar and I got together to design a new version of
emulator
for the PIC16CXX, under contract from Microchip.

We now have the ICEPIC16CXX. We believe it is the best emulator on the
market particularly at the price.
It is a ful real time emulator operating under Windows, with a complete
Integrated Development Environment (includes source level debug for
assembler and "c"), with a serial port interface for notebook users.

For further information and DEMO SOFTWARE, please see our web page on

http://www.stph.net/icepic

For European customers, the ICEPIC meets the new CE compliance.

Prices are as follows;

PART NO         THIS IS AN EMULATOR AND DAUGHTER
               BOARD FOR THE FOLLOWING PICS              US$
ICEPIC5X                                   16C5X
     748.80
ICEPIC64                               16C62,16C64
      827.84
ICEPIC74                       16C63, 16C65, 16C73, 16C74
852.80
ICEPIC71                                   16C71
    794.56
ICEPIC84                                   16C84
    794.56
ICEPIC62X                  16C62X
794.56
ICEPIC       EMULATOR WITHOUT DAUGHTER BRD              520.00

PART NO         THESE ARE ADD ON DAUGHTER BOARDS
                  FOR THE FOLLOWING PICS                                    US$
ICEPIC-DB5X                 16C5X
  249.60
ICEPIC-DB64                 16C62, 16C64
307.84
ICEIPIC-DB74    16C63, 16C65, 16C73, 16C74
332.80
ICEPIC-DB71                 16C71
  274.56
ICEPIC-DB84                 16C84
  274.56
ICEPIC-DB62X                16C62X
274.56


best regards John Fairall







best regards

John Fairall


'list replys'
1996\03\14@084536 by Donald Frederick Wright Jr.
flavicon
face
Thanks for all the info on the list acknologements.  I have it all figured
out now so no more posts are needed.  Thanks again.


  Donald Frederick Wright Jr.

  School info: Lawrence Technological University
  E-mail: DW79208spamspam_OUTLTU.EDU

  Work Info: AVL North America
  E-mail: .....DNWRIGHTRemoveMEspamKILLspamAVLNA.COM

'Is this list archived anywhere?'
1996\03\14@113228 by Tom Sgouros

flavicon
face
Are the discussions on this list archived anywhere? Is there a FAQ?

---------------------------------------------------------------------
TakeThisOuTtomssKILLspamspam.....ids.net - 401-861-2831 - 42 Forge Road, Potowomut, RI 02818 USA

1996\03\14@130351 by David E. Queen

flavicon
face
At 11:31 AM 3/14/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Are the discussions on this list archived anywhere? Is there a FAQ?
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>tomssspam_OUTspamspamBeGoneids.net - 401-861-2831 - 42 Forge Road, Potowomut, RI 02818 USA
>
Personally I would love a cd with all the old pic and stamp messages on it!

'PICLIST Digest - 17 Mar 1996 to 18 Mar 1996'
1996\03\19@141645 by John Fairall

flavicon
face
There is a new low cost emulator whic is being offered by Microchip, its
called the ICEPIC, and it offers Real ime emulation with all the featuresone
expects from an emulator. It runs under windows with a really nice
interface. Fully compatible with MPASM / MPC etc, with source level debugger.

The cost is about US$750 for a '5X system. For further informaiton the
manufacturer has a web page containing the windows software, to enable
anyone to have a look at it. The page is

http://www.stph.net/icepic

Best Regards

John Fairall
RF Solutions Ltd.
Pannetts Building, Railway Lane,
Lewes, East Sussex. England.
Tel +44 1273 488 880
Fax + 44 1273 480 661
e-mail; icpeic.....spam@spam@pavilion.co.uk

'Is this list archived anywhere?'
1996\03\21@140633 by Daniel Holt

flavicon
face
At 12:06 PM 3/14/96 -0600, you wrote:
>At 11:31 AM 3/14/96 -0500, you wrote:
>>Are the discussions on this list archived anywhere? Is there a FAQ?
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>@spam@tomssspamspamids.net - 401-861-2831 - 42 Forge Road, Potowomut, RI 02818 USA
>>
>Personally I would love a cd with all the old pic and stamp messages on it!
>
Not sure if you are interested, but I have the list saved from November of
last year to today...
---
Daniel Holt

DATA:
spam_OUTholtspamBeGonespamspamBeGonemail.sdsu.edu  EMAIL
holtRemoveMEspamTakeThisOuTrohan.sdsu.edu FTP
HomePage - http://rohan.sdsu.edu/home/holt

VOICE:
Home   - (619) 670-3145
Office - (619) 594-4259
Pager  - (619) 624-4964
Cell   - (619) 987-0971
Voice Mail Local - 619-229-2222 Ext. 13145
Voice Mail Long Dist. 1800-680-2728 Ext. 13145

Please don't say you couldn't reach me.... :)

'A FREE Listing in the Who's Who Guide'
1996\03\23@154218 by sysop

flavicon
face
I am sending this message to your mailing list because
I want you to be aware that you can get a FREE listing
in DJSA's Who's Who Guide.

The guide is packed with listings and links of WWW Sites
and is accessible from any browser. The guide is written
in html and also links each site to the Home Page(s) that
have been prepared by each company, educational facility,
government or information provider.

It is a great way to "surf the net".

If you would like to add a FREE listing to this Guide, you can
do so by sending five lines (see below) by reply to this message.

Line 1...................Name of Company
Line 2...................E-Mail Addresses (two max)
Line 3...................WWW Address
Line 4...................Modem Number and/or Telnet Address
Line 5...................Description of Service (70 char max)

We can activate your WWW Site so that it can be accessed directly
>from the Who's Who Guide. You can also receive E-mail from the Guide.
Just ask for details about this optional service.

Thanks!


DJSA Bulletin Board, Inc.
http://www.djsa.com
telnet://djsa.com
ftp://djsa.com (you need user-id and password first)
========================= !!! Automated Notice !!! =======================
E-mail replies to this user should have the following on the first line
of message text:        TO: Guide
==========================================================================

1996\03\25@190225 by Odriozola Belden

flavicon
face
To: Guide

Publimax, S.A. de C.V.
TakeThisOuTrodriozoKILLspamspamdataflux.com.mx
http://www.dataflux.com.mx/publimax/

Mexican TV station home page.

At 09:33 PM 22/03/96 EST, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'Number of PICLIST Subscribers'
1996\03\25@222012 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
K. McKinnon <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> is 716 the right number [of subscribers to the PICLIST]

Ken:

Last time I checked, the number was 704... I'd suspect that 716 is
accurate now.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - .....fastfwd@spam@spamspamBeGoneix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'LOOKING FOR A DSP LIST'
1996\03\26@084428 by Moshe Fish

flavicon
face
Does anyone know of a dsp list (preferably Analog elec.) that I can subscribe
to?
-------------------------------------
Name   :Moshe Fish
E-mail :STOPspammfishTakeThisOuTspamnetvision.net.il
Date   :03/26/96
Time   :16:02:29

'Number of PICLIST Subscribers'
1996\03\28@032732 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
K. McKinnon <TakeThisOuTPICLIST@spam@spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> is 716 the right number [of subscribers to the PICLIST]

Ken:

Last time I checked, the number was 704... I'd suspect that 716 is
accurate now.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - EraseMEfastfwdEraseMEspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\03\29@230738 by Eric Seeley

flavicon
face
>K. McKinnon <PICLISTTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:
>
>> is 716 the right number [of subscribers to the PICLIST]
>
>Ken:
>
>Last time I checked, the number was 704... I'd suspect that 716 is
>accurate now.
>
>-Andy
>
>Andrew Warren - fastfwdspamBeGonespamspamix.netcom.com
>Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499
>
>This would be an interesting excercise in statistics..I get ~30 messages a
day.  Just have to factor out the outliers..Andy you there?

Eric


'PICLIST Digest - 23 Mar 1996 to 24 Mar 1996'
1996\04\02@173238 by David Baker
flavicon
face
On Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:01:09 -0500, "Automatic digest processor"
<RemoveMELISTSERV.....spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

Subject: Re: Thank You.
>
> We ALL have lately received quite a few "hot headed" FLAMING responses (As
> they say: "faster to flame than to tame...") to SPAM messages to our list,
> with a vocabulary not so fit for most of us (I won't repeat it here...:-).
> The PICLIST, as a VERY active mailing list, is very attractive to spam'ers.
> Well, we all know that. Let's not play  into the hands of the spam'ers: I'm
> sure some of them even enjoy seeing FLAMES bouncing back and forth between
> list members.

The best solution would be to stop these spams getting in in the first
place. I remember a while back there was a plan to do something about it,
like only allow subscribed members to post or have a twit filter or
something? I digest this list & just about every time there is at least one
of these messages shoved in the middle.

Is there still a plan to fix this one day? I already unsubscribed once but
came back when the list manager said he was going to get it fixed.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - david.....spam.....baker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - spam_OUTdavidEraseMEspam.....gmetra.po.my |
|                          |  Fax                  - 60-3-2612870       |
|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Anti-Spam Measures (was: "Re: PICLIST Digest - 23 '
1996\04\03@021201 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
David Baker <EraseMEPICLISTKILLspamspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> The best solution would be to stop these spams getting in in the
> first place. I remember a while back there was a plan to do
> something about it, like only allow subscribed members to post or
> have a twit filter or something?
> ....
> Is there still a plan to fix this one day? I already unsubscribed
> once but came back when the list manager said he was going to get it
> fixed.

Dave:

Jory Bell (the list owner) DID try to implement that solution, but
there were some undesirable side-effects.  Chief among these was that
many of the list subscribers (like me, for instance) use ISPs that
assign different domain names each time we log on.  In my case, the
"From:" line in the mail I send is variously set to
"RemoveMEfastfwdSTOPspamspamEraseMEix.netcom.com", "spam_OUTfastfwdspamspamRemoveMEpopd.ix.netcom.com",
"spamBeGonefastfwdEraseMEspamix3.ix.netcom.com", "TakeThisOuTfastfwd.....spamTakeThisOuTix14.ix.netcom.com", etc.

There's no problem with replying to any of those addresses (usually);
Netcom straightens everything out and routes all those replies to me.
However, Jory's anti-spam routine worked by comparing the "From:"
address to the list of subscribers.  Since my Netcom-assigned domain
name only matches the address on the subscriber list about 5% of the
time, 95% of the messages I sent would be refused by the list server.

[Of course, this could actually be a GOOD thing for all of you...]

The solution which first came to mind was to subscribe me under all
possible domain names that Netcom might assign.  This allowed me to
post messages to the list, but unfortunately resulted in my receiving
14 copies of every message that anyone else posted.

After a couple of days, Jory decided that the anti-spam software was
more trouble than it was worth and removed it.  For now, the best
solution is simply to ignore the spam... After all, it comprises
less than 1% of all messages posted here.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwdspamBeGonespamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'PICLIST PROBLEMS'
1996\04\03@033239 by Bob.Minchin

flavicon
face
Dear Piclisters,

I can't help feeling that I am not getting the best use from the Piclist server.
I have been getting some strange responses that neither I or my IT helpdesk
staff can resolve. Is this happening to anyone else?

I regularly receive postings from the PICLIST including both versions of the
double postings that others sometimes have to send. The route is via EUnet, a UK
service provider, via a server at my company site and then distibuted via Lotus
CCmail to my Apple Mac.

I have been replying to messages but my threads never seem to get picked up - ok
maybe my comments are not worth following up! However in an attempt to find out
why I sent the following request to the server:-

'SET PICLIST REPRO'  and  'INDEX PICLIST'

Two messages came back. The first said that I was not subscribed to the list!
and the second was executed properly.

I then sent 'GET PICLIST LOG9604' and the resulting file showed that my replies
sent recently had not got onto the list.

So  two points
a) The server thinks that I'm not subscribed and yet sends around 25 messages
per day to me
and
b) when I reply using the cmail reply button messages don't get posted.

Can anyone help? Is there mail address for server help?

Regards

'Frustrated of Romsey'

AKA

Bob Minchin
ID bob.minchin@spam@spamroke.co.uk

'set piclist ack repro'
1996\04\03@074317 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Andrew Warren wrote:

> If so, it's safe to assume that your message DID get posted; the
> message from the listserver can be ignored.
>
> The listserver doesn't normally send copies of your own messages to
> you, nor does it send you an acknowledgement when your messages are
> posted.  To change this behavior, send a message with the following
> text in the body to spamlistservSTOPspamspamRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu:
>     set piclist ack repro
> -Andy
> Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdspamspam_OUTix.netcom.com
> Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

        ***** set piclist ack repro *****
Yeh!, I keep trying to get that message across too Andy.
Perhaps it should be the default. Comments anyone!!

Don McKenzie @spam@donmckEraseMEspamTakeThisOuTlabyrinth.net.au
DonTronics Tullamarine, Australia
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~donmck

PIC Programmers starting at $15US, BS1/2 & Alternatives 18/28 PIC proto
PicoSaurus, the 40 pin ETI PIC Basic with 8K EEPROM Free Windows Dev Sys

'Anti-Spam Measures (was: "Re: PICLIST Digest - 23 '
1996\04\03@081936 by Roger Books

flavicon
face
>  Jory Bell (the list owner) DID try to implement that solution, but
>  there were some undesirable side-effects.  Chief among these was that
>  many of the list subscribers (like me, for instance) use ISPs that
>  assign different domain names each time we log on.  In my case, the
>  "From:" line in the mail I send is variously set to
>  "RemoveMEfastfwdTakeThisOuTspamix.netcom.com", "RemoveMEfastfwdspamspampopd.ix.netcom.com",
>  "KILLspamfastfwdspamspamspam_OUTix3.ix.netcom.com", "spamfastfwd.....spamTakeThisOuTix14.ix.netcom.com", etc.
>
>  -Andy
>

Actually, the optimum solution would be mailing list software that allows
posting from a domain instead of just a single machine.  That is supposed
to be available in the next release of Majordomo.  If it looks good I'll
give the list a yell (I have to run mailing list software for a project
at work.)

Roger

'PICLIST PROBLEMS'
1996\04\03@203336 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Bob.Minchin@SAGE.ROKE.CO.UK <PICLIST@spam@spamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I have been replying to messages but my threads never seem to get
> picked up - ok maybe my comments are not worth following up! However
> in an attempt to find out why I sent the following request to the
> server:-
>
> 'SET PICLIST REPRO'  and  'INDEX PICLIST'
>
> Two messages came back. The first said that I was not subscribed to
> the list! and the second was executed properly.
>
> I then sent 'GET PICLIST LOG9604' and the resulting file showed that
> my replies sent recently had not got onto the list.
>
> So  two points
> a) The server thinks that I'm not subscribed and yet sends around 25
> messages per day to me and b) when I reply using the cmail reply
> button messages don't get posted.
>
> Can anyone help? Is there mail address for server help?

Bob:

You can send e-mail to STOPspamjoryspammit.edu; he's the list-owner.

I think your problem is similar to mine; your ISP changes your
e-mail address depending upon the particular server that you log in
to.  Your signature says that your e-mail address is
"EraseMEbob.minchinspam_OUTspamroke.co.uk", but the "From:" line in your message says
"bob.minchinKILLspamspamspamsage.roke.co.uk".

I'll bet that "sage" isn't the name of the server under which you
originally joined the PICLIST, and that those listserv commands that
DIDN'T work were sent from that server.

You may be able to solve this by configuring your mailreader to
always set your "From:" address to "TakeThisOuT....KILLspamspamroke.co.uk", then
(optionally) re-subscribing to the PICLIST under that address.

Your other problem (replies not being sent to the PICLIST) is
probably a simple mailreader-configuration issue.  You're probably
sending replies to the original author of those messages, not to
spampiclist.....spam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu.  Make sure that your mailreader is using the
"Reply-To:" address, not the "From:" address.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - spam_OUTfastfwdspamspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'set piclist ack repro'
1996\04\04@083317 by Kevin Krauel

flavicon
face
>[Re.]      ***** set piclist ack repro *****    [command]

>Yeh!, I keep trying to get that message across too Andy.
>Perhaps it should be the default. Comments anyone!!

I agree.  I am getting tired of reading redundant messages from new and/or
(I hope I don't get flamed for this :-)) inexperienced members.

       -Kevin.

'Anti-Spam Measures (was: "Re: PICLIST Digest - 23 '
1996\04\04@084143 by Mark A. Corio

picon face
If the anti-spam software has been removed, why do we continue to see people
double posting?  I thought that this was caused by the message from the list
server that our message was rejected as a duplicate.  I think it is better to
get an occasional duplicate than duplicates caused by an incorrect message
indicating a duplicate.  The other reason we could be getting duplicates is
that the list doesn't send a copy to the sender.  I know you can turn on this
option (I have) but why not make it the default as most new members (if not
most all members) would prefer it on anyway?

I agree with Andy (and many others) that the best anti-spam tactic is just to
ignore it.

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel:  (716) 328-5850
Fax:  (716) 328-1144
e-mail:  EraseMEMcoriospamBeGonespamaol.com

***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

'set piclist ack repro'
1996\04\04@084147 by Mark A. Corio

picon face
I agree.  This should be the default.

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel:  (716) 328-5850
Fax:  (716) 328-1144
e-mail:  EraseMEMcoriospam_OUTspamspamaol.com

***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

1996\04\04@124935 by mike

flavicon
picon face
In message <828575204.4407.0spam_OUTspamwnt.dc.lsoft.com> spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU writes:
>          ***** set piclist ack repro *****
> Yeh!, I keep trying to get that message across too Andy.
> Perhaps it should be the default. Comments anyone!!
>
> Don McKenzie TakeThisOuTdonmckspamlabyrinth.net.au

I agree - it should be the default.

Regards,

Mike Watson

'Renewal of your subscription to the PICLIST list'
1996\04\15@051700 by Ken Hewitt

flavicon
picon face
This is a MIME message

--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj



 ------- Forwarded message follows -------

--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj
Content-Description: Forwarded message: "Renewal of your subscription to the
PICLIST list"
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <spamowner-PICLISTspam_OUTspammitvma.mit.edu>
Received: from punt.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.73]) by welwyn.demon.co.uk
with SMTP id <EraseMEP0Ku7mDS2fcxAwmospamspamwelwyn.demon.co.uk>
for <KILLspamkenEraseMEspamspam_OUTwelwyn.demon.co.uk> ; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 08:41:06 +0100
Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for TakeThisOuTkenspam_OUTspamspamwelwyn.demon.co.uk
         id 828958014:00866:1; Mon, 08 Apr 96 11:06:54 BST
Received: from mitvma.mit.edu ([18.92.0.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id aa00821;
         8 Apr 96 11:06 +0100
Received: from MITVMA.MIT.EDU by mitvma.mit.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3)
  with BSMTP id 5129; Mon, 08 Apr 96 06:05:11 EDT
Received: from MITVMA.MIT.EDU (NJE origin LISTSERV@MITVMA) by MITVMA.MIT.EDU
(LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 4718; Mon, 8 Apr 1996 06:05:11 -0400
Date:         Mon, 8 Apr 1996 06:05:11 -0400
From:         BITNET list server at MITVMA (1.8a) <@spam@LISTSERVTakeThisOuTspammitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:      Renewal of your subscription to the PICLIST list
To:           Ken Hewitt <STOPspamkenspamspamWELWYN.DEMON.CO.UK>
X-LSV-ListID: PICLIST
Message-ID: <spam828957993.821.0KILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu>

Mon, 8 Apr 1996 06:05:10

Your subscription to the PICLIST list is due for renewal. If you wish to remain
subscribed   to    PICLIST,   please    issue   the   following    command   to
LISTSERVRemoveMEspamMITVMA.BITNET   (or   LISTSERVEraseMEspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU)    at   your   earliest
convenience:

                               CONFIRM PICLIST


You will be  automatically removed from the  list if you do not  send a CONFIRM
command within the next 7 days.

PS: In order to facilitate the  task, this message has been specially formatted
so  that  you only  need  to  forward  it  back to  STOPspamLISTSERVTakeThisOuTspam.....MITVMA.BITNET  (or
spam_OUTLISTSERVspam_OUTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU)  to have  the command  executed. Note  that while  the
formats  produced  by  the  forwarding  function  of  most  mail  packages  are
supported, replying will seldom work, so make sure to forward and not reply.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
// JOB
CONFIRM PICLIST
// EOJ

--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj


+-----------------------------+----------------------------------+
|   ken hewitt                |   Email TakeThisOuTkenTakeThisOuTspamwelwyn.demon.co.uk   |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------+


--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj--

1996\04\15@131915 by Terry Yingling

flavicon
face
On Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:06:23 +0100, you wrote:

>This is a MIME message
>
>--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj
>
>
>
>  ------- Forwarded message follows -------
>
>--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj
>Content-Description: Forwarded message: "Renewal of your subscription to the
> PICLIST list"
>Content-Type: message/rfc822
>
>Return-Path: <EraseMEowner-PICLIST@spam@spammitvma.mit.edu>
>Received: from punt.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.73]) by welwyn.demon.co.uk
> with SMTP id <spamBeGoneP0Ku7mDS2fcxAwmoKILLspamspamwelwyn.demon.co.uk>
> for <KILLspamkenspam.....welwyn.demon.co.uk> ; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 08:41:06 +0100
>Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for kenEraseMEspamwelwyn.demon.co.uk
>          id 828958014:00866:1; Mon, 08 Apr 96 11:06:54 BST
>Received: from mitvma.mit.edu ([18.92.0.3]) by punt-1.mail.demon.net id
aa00821;
{Quote hidden}

Terry

1996\04\15@232300 by Harry B. Morton III

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

aa00821;
{Quote hidden}

1996\04\16@043632 by mbhskjg

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face
                               CONFIRM PICLIST


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
// JOB
CONFIRM PICLIST
// EOJ
smtp
**********************************************************************
#      john g koblanski. . . .    email john.koblanski.....spam.....man.ac.uk     #
#      the school of engineering  room                    it 108     #
#      university of  manchester  tel         (44) 0161 275 5709     #
#      manchester     england     fax         (44) 0161 275 4512     #
**********************************************************************

1996\04\16@082614 by Roger Books

flavicon
face
And here I get annoyed again.

If you are renewing your subscription to the PICLIST could you please follow
directions?  The message plainly says return it to "TakeThisOuTLISTSERVspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU",
not the PICLIST.

If you feel the need to flame or respond to this, Please, I'm asking nicely,
do so to me personnally, not the list.  A reply won't do it, that goes to
the list.  Change the to line to read "KILLspambooks@spam@spamKILLspammail.state.fl.us"

Thank you for your support.

Roger

'unsubscribe piclist'
1996\04\17@103536 by Walter Crauwels

flavicon
face
Date    17/4/96
Subject unsubscribe piclist
From    Walter Crauwels
To      pic picc

                     Subject:                              Time:  15:42
 OFFICE MEMO         unsubscribe piclist                   Date:
17-04-1996
unsubscribe piclist
help

1996\04\17@105952 by Walter Crauwels

flavicon
face
Date    17/4/96
Subject unsubscribe piclist
>From    Walter Crauwels
To      pic picc

                     Subject:                              Time:  15:42
 OFFICE MEMO         unsubscribe piclist                   Date:
17-04-1996
unsubscribe piclist
help

'PICList 'rejected messages' problem'
1996\04\28@064818 by Mauricio.Culibk

flavicon
face
SendTo: piclistspam_OUTspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

Hi!

Exceuse me for bothering, but I just want to check if the problem of
'rejected messages' is gone, because Jory Bell said that I was the
'problem generator', so after few patches & updates to our mailer/mail
servers, I resubscribed....
Please, let me know if the problem persists, or, anyway, what's the
piclist status now.

Thank you for your (download)time,

Regards,

Mauricio CULIBRK

ARNE Computers d.o.o.
Cesta v Gorice 38                                   Phone:   +386 61 1233-171
61111 Ljubljana                                     Fax:     +386 61 1233-488
Slovenia                                            E-Mail:  EraseMEmauricio@spam@spamTakeThisOuTarne.si
E U R O P E


'SP0256-al2 ALLOPHONES list'
1996\05\03@062402 by Micheal Yano
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       This is the Allophones list for the general instruments SPO256-AL2.

Address Example        Duration PIN
                       (mS)

0       PA1     Pause   10
1       PA2     Pause   30      VSS
2       PA3     Pause   50      RESET
3       PA4     Pause   100     ROM DISABLE
4       PA5     Pause   200     C1
5       OY      BOY     420     C2
6       AY      SKY     260     C3
7       EH      END     70      VDD
8       KK3     COMB    120     SBY
9       PP      POW     210     LRQ
10      JH      DODGE   140     A8
11      NN1     THIN    140     A7
12      IH      SIT     70      SER OUT
13      TT2     TO      140     A6
14      RR1     RURAL   170     A5
15      AX      SUCCEED 70      A4
16      MM      MILK    180     A3
17      TT1     PART    100     A2
18      DH1     THEY    290     A1
19      IY      SEE     250     SE
20      EY      BEIGE   280     ALD
21      DD1     COULD   70      SER IN
22      UW1     TO      100     TEST
23      AO      AUGHT   100     VD1
24      AA      HOT     100     DIGITAL OUT
25      YY2     YES     180     SBY RESET
26      AE      HAT     120     ROM CLOCK
27      HH1     HE      130     OSC1
28      BB1     BUSINESS        80      OSC2
29      TH      THIN    180
30      UH      BOOK    100
31      UW2     FOOD    260
32      AW      OUT     370
33      DD2     DO      160
34      GG3     WIG     140
35      VV      VEST    190
36      GG1     GOT     80
37      SH      SHIP    160
38      ZH      AZURE   190
39      RR2     BRAIN   120
40      FF      FOOD    150
41      KK2     SKY     190
42      KK1     CAN'T   160
43      ZZ      ZOO     210
44      NG      ANCHOR  220
45      LL      LAKE    110
46      WW      WOOL    180
47      XR      REPAIR  360
48      WH      WHIG    200
49      YY1     YES     130
50      CH      CHURCH  190
51      ER1     FIR     160
52      ER2     FIR     300
53      OW      BEAU    240
54      DH2     THEY    240
55      SS      VEST    90
56      NN2     NO      190
57      HH2     HOE     180
58      OR      STORE   330
59      AR      ALARM   290
60      YR      CLEAR   350
61      GG2     GUEST   40
62      EL      SADDLE  190
63      BB2     BUSINESS        50
    __           Micheal Yano
   ----          Internet:     spamBeGonemiyEraseMEspamspamBeGonecimtek.on.ca
 -CIMTEK-        IBMMAIL:      i1320285EraseMEspamIBMMAIL.COM
------------      Voice:        (905)847-8811 x22
                   FAX:        (905)847-8822 x22

'PIC ListServe'
1996\05\18@234441 by John Sullivan

flavicon
face
-- [ From: John Sullivan * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Help.

'ListServe Subscription'
1996\05\18@234445 by John Sullivan

flavicon
face
-- [ From: John Sullivan * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Subscribe PIC

'PIC ListServe'
1996\05\19@113032 by michele

flavicon
face
>-- [ From: John Sullivan * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --
>
>Help.
>
>
Hi John,
Which kind of help  do you need?
Call me back if you need it.
Bye
Michele

'unsubscribe piclist'
1996\05\24@073942 by Walter Crauwels

flavicon
face
Date    24/5/96
Subject unsubscribe piclist
From    Walter Crauwels
To      pic pic

                     Subject:                              Time:  13:34
 OFFICE MEMO         unsubscribe piclist                   Date:
24-05-1996
unsubscribe piclist

'16C622 code protect "List of devices"'
1996\05\26@041200 by Newfound Electronics

flavicon
face
G'day all,

I've been off the piclist lately but found this in the 9605 log
and I see this question on non eraseable code protect devices
is so far answered.


Eric T. Brewer wrote
[
>
>Would you please provide a list of such devices?

>Thanks,
>eric

]

Eric,

All the following "A" suffix devices are "no erase" code protect
devices.

16C62A
16C64A
16C65A
16C73A
16C74A

The following three are effectively "A" revisions but they do not
have the "A" suffix. (It is likely revisions for these parts will
start with the "B" suffix.)

16C63
16C72
16C620
16C621
16C622

I strongly suspect these devices should be on the list
but don't know for certain (yet!):

16C70
16C71A

In the future there maybe a 16C61A and 16C60 also.
(My guess)

Misc others are:

PIC14000
PIC17C43
PIC17C44

It is a fair bet all "JW" devices from now on will have "no-erase"
code protection except for the 5x devices.

As far as I can tell none of the planned 5x "JW" revisions have
"no-erase" code protection.

In addition to "no erase" code protection, all the above devices
have the state of the PWRTE config bit reversed from earlier
devices. This means the PWRTE is different going from a 16C74
to a 16C74A.

No need to worry though if you use the correct header file for
the target PIC.



Jim Robertson
NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS

P.S. From version 3.05 onwards, my warp-3 will not allow "accidental"
programming of the code protection fuses even if they are on in the
HEX file. Use the /L- switch to bypass this safety.

1996\05\26@043728 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
On Sun, 26 May 1996, Newfound Electronics wrote:
> In addition to "no erase" code protection, all the above devices
> have the state of the PWRTE config bit reversed from earlier
> devices. This means the PWRTE is different going from a 16C74
> to a 16C74A.
>
> No need to worry though if you use the correct header file for
> the target PIC.

> Jim Robertson
> NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS
>
> P.S. From version 3.05 onwards, my warp-3 will not allow "accidental"
> programming of the code protection fuses even if they are on in the
> HEX file. Use the /L- switch to bypass this safety.

Now there's a nice safety lock Jim. When is the Warp-3 V3.05 available?

Don McKenzie donmckspamlabyrinth.net.au
DonTronics Tullamarine, Australia
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~donmck

PIC Basic Compiler available now. PIC Programmers starting at $15US
Pic-Axe. The Tool for breaking new ground.

'subscribe to the piclist'
1996\05\29@110814 by Sek Wing Siu

flavicon
face
I want to subscribe to the piclist. Thanks!
--
   ___       __             _____   _
  /   | ____/ / ___   ____ / ___/  (_) __  __
 / /| |/ __  / / _ \ / __ \\__ \  / / / / / /
/ ___ | /_/ / /  __// / / /__/ / / / / /_/ /
/_/  |_|__,_/  \___//_/ /_/____/ /_/  \__,_/
~~~~~~~~~RemoveMEadensEraseMEspamspamBeGonepo.eecs.berkeley.edu
        RemoveMEadenSTOPspamspamix.netcom.com~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


'PicList Survey Results!!!'
1996\06\01@011158 by Beach Tech
flavicon
face
The PicList user survey is complete, here are the results.

For those of you who didn't respond, or notice the survey, I recently posted a
survey to this list so that we could get a handle on who's in the group.

30 People responded!!!

The report is best viewed in a spreadsheet program.

If you have questions please email 'RemoveMEdsellnerspamembay.com'.


Sales Pitch:
I did this survey as a test of E*Form, a program we developed to do survey and
forms entry via e-mail.  If you would like more information about E*Form send
me an e-mail or "http://www.skypoint.com/members/beachtec/", soon to be
"http://www.beachtech.com".


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_1    1.1 Age =>



Type (N)
Count : 25
       Mean:   36.19
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       16      1       4       ****
       23      1       4       ****
       24      1       4       ****
       27      1       4       ****
       30      4       16      ****************
       31      1       4       ****
       32      5       20      ********************
       33      1       4       ****
       34      1       4       ****
       35      1       4       ****
       43      1       4       ****
       45      2       8       ********
       47      1       4       ****
       51      1       4       ****
       53      2       8       ********
       55      1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_2    1.2 Income =>



Type (N)
Count : 15
       Mean:   37727.27
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       1000    1       7       ******
       24000   1       7       ******
       30000   1       7       ******
       32000   1       7       ******
       35000   1       7       ******
       36000   2       13      *************
       40000   1       7       ******
       50000   4       27      **************************
       52000   1       7       ******
       55000   1       7       ******
       60000   1       7       ******

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_3    1.3 Married =>



Type (L)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       8       32      ********************************
       Y       17      68      ************************************************
********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_4    1.4 Kids =>



Type (N)
Count : 19
       Mean:   2.6
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       7       37      ************************************
       1       4       21      *********************
       2       6       32      *******************************
       3       1       5       *****
       7       1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_5    1.5 Total Years of Education =>



Type (N)
Count : 24
       Mean:   26.21
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       4       1       4       ****
       10      3       13      ************
       13      2       8       ********
       14      1       4       ****
       15      1       4       ****
       16      3       13      ************
       17      3       13      ************
       18      4       17      ****************
       19      1       4       ****
       22      1       4       ****
       24      1       4       ****
       33      1       4       ****
       47      1       4       ****
       115     1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_6    1.6 How many years of technical education =>



Type (N)
Count : 25
       Mean:   3.71
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       1       4       ****
       1       1       4       ****
       2       2       8       ********
       4       8       32      ********************************
       5       7       28      ****************************
       6       2       8       ********
       8       4       16      ****************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_7    1.7 Are you currently at work? (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       25      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_8    1.8 What is your job title: =>



Type (C)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Chief Technician        1       4       ****
       Computer Engineer       1       4       ****
       Computer Engineer/Part time business owner.     1       4       ****
       Department Head Organisation    1       4       ****
       Design engineer & CAD/CAM manager       1       4       ****
       Electrical enginner     1       4       ****
       Embedded Software Engineer      1       4       ****
       Eng manager     1       4       ****
       Farm Work       1       4       ****
       Microchip FAE   1       4       ****
       President       4       16      ****************
       Programmer      1       4       ****
       SENIOR PARTNER  1       4       ****
       Senior Software Engineer        2       8       ********
       Senior Technical Officer        1       4       ****
       System Administrator    1       4       ****
       Systems Administrator   1       4       ****
       Technical Officer       1       4       ****
       design engineer 2       8       ********
       design engineer/sys admin/gopher/       1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F2_1    2.1 How many people work at your site: =>



Type (N)
Count : 20
       Mean:   542.13
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       1       3       15      ***************
       2       2       10      **********
       3       2       10      **********
       4       2       10      **********
       5       1       5       *****
       6       1       5       *****
       10      1       5       *****
       30      1       5       *****
       70      1       5       *****
       80      1       5       *****
       100     1       5       *****
       120     1       5       *****
       500     1       5       *****
       3200    1       5       *****
       4001    1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F2_2    2.2 How many people work in your group: =>



Type (N)
Count : 20
       Mean:   20.5
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       1       5       *****
       1       5       25      *************************
       2       4       20      ********************
       4       3       15      ***************
       5       2       10      **********
       7       1       5       *****
       10      1       5       *****
       15      1       5       *****
       40      1       5       *****
       121     1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F2_3    2.3 What is your firm's primary product: =>



Type (C)
Count : 20
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Any electronics equipment       1       5       *****
       BUSINESS MACHINERY      1       5       *****
       Computer Relate Products        1       5       *****
       Computer Software       3       15      ***************
       Electronic Design Services      1       5       *****
       Electronic components   1       5       *****
       Electronics     1       5       *****
       Embedded Controllers    1       5       *****
       Machines        1       5       *****
       Maintenance     1       5       *****
       Printed wired board     1       5       *****
       Satellite Communications Equipment      1       5       *****
       Structural Change       1       5       *****
       Totalizator/pcb's.      1       5       *****
       design  1       5       *****
       fpga based computing devices    1       5       *****
       industrial controls     1       5       *****
       industrial laundry controllers  1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_1    3.1 Do you use PICs in your work: (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       10      40      ****************************************
       Y       15      60      ************************************************
************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_2    3.2 Do you use PICs for hobby projects: (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 26
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       6       23      ***********************
       Y       20      77
       ************************************************************************
****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_3    3.3 How many PICs do you (or your firm) consum per year (y/n) =>



Type (N)
Count : 22
       Mean:   1474.73
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       1       1       5       ****
       2       2       9       *********
       3       1       5       ****
       5       2       9       *********
       10      3       14      *************
       50      1       5       ****
       100     4       18      ******************
       200     1       5       ****
       1000    1       5       ****
       1020    1       5       ****
       1200    1       5       ****
       1500    1       5       ****
       2030    1       5       ****
       5000    1       5       ****
       10000   1       5       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_4    3.4 How many Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs) do you design per yea
r
(y/n) =>


Type (N)
Count : 19
       Mean:   11.55
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       3       16      ***************
       1       1       5       *****
       2       5       26      **************************
       3       2       11      **********
       5       2       11      **********
       6       1       5       *****
       10      1       5       *****
       12      1       5       *****
       15      1       5       *****
       23      1       5       *****
       50      1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_5    3.5 How many PIC projects do you complete per year =>



Type (N)
Count : 24
       Mean:   10.2
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       3       13      ************
       2       9       38      *************************************
       3       2       8       ********
       4       3       13      ************
       5       1       4       ****
       6       1       4       ****
       10      2       8       ********
       15      1       4       ****
       23      1       4       ****
       34      1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_6_1  "3.6 Please List other non PIC microprocessors in order of
preference, by family: Choice 1 =>

                                    "
Type (C)
Count : 24
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       61      3       13      ************
       6502    2       8       ********
       68000   1       4       ****
       68332   1       4       ****
       68HC11  1       4       ****
       8031    2       8       ********
       8051    4       17      ****************
       8088    1       4       ****
       80c31   1       4       ****
       80x86   1       4       ****
       Intel 8051      1       4       ****
       MC68HC11        1       4       ****
       Philips 51 derivatives  1       4       ****
       n/a     1       4       ****
       x86     1       4       ****
       z80     2       8       ********

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_6_2  "3.6 Please List other non PIC microprocessors in order of
preference, by family: Choice 2 =>

                                    "
Type (C)
Count : 18
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       54      3       17      ****************
       6502    1       6       *****
       68000   1       6       *****
       680x0   1       6       *****
       68HC705P9       1       6       *****
       68ch11  1       6       *****
       68hc11  2       11      ***********
       8048    1       6       *****
       8051    1       6       *****
       80X86   1       6       *****
       80c196  1       6       *****
       80x88   1       6       *****
       MCS51   1       6       *****
       Zilog Z86E04    1       6       *****
       n/a     1       6       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_6_3  "3.6 Please List other non PIC microprocessors in order of
preference, by family: Choice 3 =>

                                    "
Type (C)
Count : 10
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       -       1       10      **********
       64180   1       10      **********
       6805    1       10      **********
       680xx   1       10      **********
       68705   1       10      **********
       Atmel 89C2051   1       10      **********
       ST6225  1       10      **********
       Z80     2       20      ********************
       n/a     1       10      **********

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_6_4  "3.6 Please List other non PIC microprocessors in order of
preference, by family: Choice 4 =>

                                    "
Type (C)
Count : 6
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       -       1       17      ****************
       ...     1       17      ****************
       6800    1       17      ****************
       Motorola 68HC705        1       17      ****************
       TMS320C40       1       17      ****************
       n/a     1       17      ****************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_6_5  "3.6 Please List other non PIC microprocessors in order of
preference, by family: Choice 5 =>

                                    "
Type (C)
Count : 5
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       -       1       20      ********************
       8051    1       20      ********************
       DEC LSI/11      1       20      ********************
       Mitsubishi 37702        1       20      ********************
       n/a     1       20      ********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_1    4.1 What Programmer do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       ALL07 (Hi-Lo)   1       4       ****
       "COMPIC-1, COMPIC-5X, COMPIC-PRO"       1       4       ****
       David Tait's design     1       4       ****
       "DonTronics, Newfound"  1       4       ****
       EE Tools        1       4       ****
       ITU     1       4       ****
       ITU PIC1        1       4       ****
       Micro Burner    1       4       ****
       Microchip       3       12      ************
       PIC16Cxx-PGM/Microchip 16B1     1       4       ****
       PIC84PGM (from Don McKenzie)    1       4       ****
       PICSTART 16b    2       8       ********
       PICSTART-16C    1       4       ****
       Parallax        2       8       ********
       PicStart 16C    1       4       ****
       ProMate 1       4       ****
       "Promate,"      1       4       ****
       Self-Built      1       4       ****
       "home-made, never works :-("    1       4       ****
       nedham emp20    1       4       ****
       promate / picstar /     1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_2    4.2 What Compiler do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 19
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       -       1       5       *****
       "Borland C++, MPC, MPLABC"      1       5       *****
       ByteCraft C     1       5       *****
       CCS PCM 1       5       *****
       MPASM 1.30      1       5       *****
       MPC     1       5       *****
       Microchip       3       16      ***************
       NEVER   1       5       *****
       "Parallax, MicroEngineering PBasic"     1       5       *****
       Various 1       5       *****
       byte craft      1       5       *****
       nil     1       5       *****
       none    5       26      **************************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_3    4.3 What Assembler do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 24
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       "Factory assembler (INTEL, THOMSON)"    1       4       ****
       MPASM   11      46      *********************************************
       MPASM 1.30      1       4       ****
       MPASM/PASM      1       4       ****
       "MPASMWIN, MPASM"       1       4       ****
       Microchip       3       13      ************
       PASM    1       4       ****
       "Parralax, MicroChip"   1       4       ****
       Various 1       4       ****
       none    2       8       ********
       parallax        1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_4    4.4 What Debugger do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 17
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       (MPSIM/nil)     1       6       *****
       MPLAB-SIM       1       6       *****
       MPSIM 5.20      1       6       *****
       MPSIM/PSIM      1       6       *****
       Microchip       3       18      *****************
       Personnal WINDOWS program       1       6       *****
       Various 1       6       *****
       avoid them      1       6       *****
       mpsim   4       24      ***********************
       none    3       18      *****************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_5    4.5 What Prototype boards do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 20
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       -       1       5       *****
       ...     1       5       *****
       Depew   3       15      ***************
       DonTronics      1       5       *****
       I do it myself  1       5       *****
       Micro Labs      1       5       *****
       custom  1       5       *****
       custom design   1       5       *****
       home made       1       5       *****
       mine    1       5       *****
       my own  2       10      **********
       none    3       15      ***************
       own     2       10      **********
       veroboard/protoboard/wirewrap   1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_6    4.6 What In-Circuit-Emulators do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 19
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       I use ONLY simulator    1       5       *****
       ICEPIC  1       5       *****
       MPLAB-PICMASTER 1       5       *****
       MPSIM   1       5       *****
       PICMASTER       1       5       *****
       Parallax        1       5       *****
       clearview xx    1       5       *****
       nil     1       5       *****
       none    10      53      ************************************************
****
       own     1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_1_1  What OS do you use for PIC development: 5.1.1 UNIX =>



Type (L)
Count : 8
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       7       88
       ************************************************************************
*******
********
       Y       1       13      ************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_1_2  What OS do you use for PIC development: 5.1.2 Windows =>



Type (L)
Count : 22
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       9       *********
       Y       20      91
       ************************************************************************
*******
***********

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_1_3  What OS do you use for PIC development: 5.1.3 DOS =>



Type (L)
Count : 22
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       22      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_1_4  What OS do you use for PIC development: 5.1.4 Macintosh =>



Type (L)
Count : 10
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       7       70      ************************************************
**********************
       Y       3       30      ******************************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_1_5  What OS do you use for PIC development: 5.1.5 Other =>



Type (C)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       (specify)       22      88
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********
       (specify) OS/2 Warp     1       4       ****
       (specify)n      1       4       ****
       (specify)none   1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_2_1  What OS do you use on a daily basis (check all that apply): 5.2.
1
UNIX =>


Type (L)
Count : 8
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       25      *************************
       Y       6       75
       ************************************************************************
***

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_2_2  What OS do you use on a daily basis (check all that apply): 5.2.
2
Windows =>


Type (L)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       25      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_2_3  What OS do you use on a daily basis (check all that apply): 5.2.
3
DOS =>


Type (L)
Count : 18
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       18      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_2_4  5What OS do you use on a daily basis (check all that apply): .2.
4
Macintosh =>


Type (L)
Count : 9
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       4       44      ********************************************
       Y       5       56      ************************************************
*******

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_2_5  What OS do you use on a daily basis (check all that apply): 5.2.
5
Other =>


Type (C)
Count : 26
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       (specify)       22      85
       ************************************************************************
*******
*****
       (specify) OS/2 Warp     1       4       ***
       (specify)n      1       4       ***
       (specify)none   1       4       ***
       VMS     1       4       ***

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F6_1    6.1 Do you consider yourself an inventor? (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       7       28      ****************************
       Y       18      72
       ************************************************************************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F6_2    6.2 Do you market your own products? (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 26
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       12      46      **********************************************
       Y       14      54      ************************************************
*****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F6_3    "6.3 Do you have products that you would like to market, but hav
en't?
(y/n) =>

                         "
Type (L)
Count : 16
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       4       25      *************************
       Y       12      75
       ************************************************************************
***

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F7_1    7.1 How many times per month do you read this list =>



Type (N)
Count : 21
       Mean:   228.5
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       3       3       14      **************
       6       1       5       ****
       20      4       19      *******************
       21      1       5       ****
       25      1       5       ****
       30      7       33      *********************************
       40      1       5       ****
       50      1       5       ****
       60      1       5       ****
       2030    1       5       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F7_2    7.2 How many times per per month do you pose a question =>



Type (N)
Count : 23
       Mean:   171
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       8       35      **********************************
       1       9       39      ***************************************
       2       2       9       ********
       3       1       4       ****
       5       2       9       ********
       1015    1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F7_3    7.3 Do you find the responses helpful? (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 23
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       4       ****
       Y       22      96
       ************************************************************************
*******
****************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_1    8 Hobbies: 8.1 Biking =>



Type (L)
Count : 15
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       15      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_2    8 Hobbies: 8.2 Camping =>



Type (L)
Count : 10
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       10      **********
       Y       9       90
       ************************************************************************
*******
***********

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_3    8 Hobbies: 8.3 Computer Games =>



Type (L)
Count : 12
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       8       ********
       Y       11      92
       ************************************************************************
*******
************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_4    8 Hobbies: 8.4 Cooking =>



Type (L)
Count : 10
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       10      **********
       Y       9       90
       ************************************************************************
*******
***********

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_5    8 Hobbies: 8.5 Electronics =>



Type (L)
Count : 23
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       23      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_6    8 Hobbies: 8.6 Family =>



Type (L)
Count : 17
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       17      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_7    8 Hobbies: 8.7 Home Automation =>



Type (L)
Count : 17
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       6       *****
       Y       16      94
       ************************************************************************
*******
***************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_8    8 Hobbies: 8.8 Home Remodeling =>



Type (L)
Count : 14
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       7       *******
       Y       13      93
       ************************************************************************
*******
*************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_9    8 Hobbies: 8.9 Lounge Lizard =>



Type (L)
Count : 9
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       3       33      *********************************
       Y       6       67      ************************************************
******************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_10   8 Hobbies: 8.10 Metal working =>



Type (L)
Count : 10
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       20      ********************
       Y       8       80
       ************************************************************************
*******
*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_11   8 Hobbies: 8.11 Model Airplanes =>



Type (L)
Count : 8
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       25      *************************
       Y       6       75
       ************************************************************************
***

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_12   8 Hobbies: 8.12 Model Rockets =>



Type (L)
Count : 5
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       40      ****************************************
       Y       3       60      ************************************************
************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_13   8 Hobbies: 8.13 Music =>



Type (L)
Count : 14
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       14      **************
       Y       12      86
       ************************************************************************
*******
******

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_14   8 Hobbies: 8.14 Skating =>



Type (L)
Count : 7
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       29      ****************************
       Y       5       71      ************************************************
***********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_15   8 Hobbies: 8.15 Skiing =>



Type (L)
Count : 6
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       3       50      ************************************************
**
       Y       3       50      ************************************************
**

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_16   8 Hobbies: 8.16 Wood working =>



Type (L)
Count : 16
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       6       ******
       Y       15      94
       ************************************************************************
*******
**************
=====================================
Doug Sellner
Beach Tech
4131 Vincent Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55410
VOICE: (612) 924-9193
FAX:   (612) 926-1145
E-MAIL: spamdsellnerRemoveMEspamRemoveMEembay.com

'Enough, Dammit! (was: "Re: PicList Survey Results!'
1996\06\01@025121 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Doug:

How many badly-formatted copies of your survey results are you going
to send to the list?

Stop, already.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - EraseMEfastfwdKILLspamspamRemoveMEix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'Sharing code with PICLIST members'
1996\06\03@060635 by David Tait

flavicon
face
Wynn Rostek wrote:

> I can send code if anyone is really interested.

If, like Wynn, anyone has some PIC-related code they want to share,
please feel free to send me a copy via e-mail (as a MIME enclosure or
UUencoded) and I'll make it available on my FTP area:

ftp://ftp.mcc.ac.uk/pub/micro-controllers/PIC

Please warn me if you are going to send large (> few hundred K) files.

David
--
EraseMEdavid.taitKILLspamspamman.ac.uk

1996\06\03@082752 by Wynn Rostek

flavicon
face
At 11:09 AM 6/3/96 +0100, you wrote:
>Wynn Rostek wrote:
>
>> I can send code if anyone is really interested.
>
>If, like Wynn, anyone has some PIC-related code they want to share,
>please feel free to send me a copy via e-mail (as a MIME enclosure or
>UUencoded) and I'll make it available on my FTP area:
>
>ftp://ftp.mcc.ac.uk/pub/micro-controllers/PIC
>
>Please warn me if you are going to send large (> few hundred K) files.
>
>David
>--
>spamdavid.tait.....spamTakeThisOuTman.ac.uk
>
>

; FILE: bunny.asm
;
; 11/30/95 Started work on this file     ...WAR...
;
; Simple bunny controller for 16C84




; Assemble with MPASM /e /l /rDEC /p16C84 bunny.asm




       include "p16cxx.inc"
       include "p16cxxd.inc"




; Set config fuses to 0x1a
;
; HS oscillator (6 MHz Xtal)
; Watchdog timer disabled
; Power-up timer enabled
; Code protection off




; For code at 10 WPM, each unit is 120 milliseconds long.
; This is 90 cycles of a 750 Hz tone.




; our variables
cnt     equ     0x0c
cyc     equ     0x0d
units   equ     0x0e
tmp     equ     0x0f




       org   0x000         ; The main line code starts here

; First we do all required initialization

Start

; Set port A as output
       bsf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 1
       movlw   0
       movwf   TRISA

; Enable port B pullups
       bcf     OPTION_REG,NOT_RBPU

; Switch back to bank 0
       bcf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 0

; Ready for main loop
Top
       bsf     RA1     ;key the transmitter

       movlw   41      ;wait 5 seconds
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit

       call    id      ;send ID

       movlw   131     ;wait 15.75 seconds
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit

       call    id      ;send ID

       movlw   41      ;wait 5 seconds
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit

       bcf     RA1     ;unkey the transmitter

       movlw   250     ;wait 60 seconds
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit
       movlw   250
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit

       goto    Top




; Send an ID message
id      call    dash
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    spc
       call    dot
       call    ps
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    dash
       call    spc
       call    dash
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    spc
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    spc
       call    dash
       call    dash
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    spc
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    spc
       call    dash
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    dash
       call    ps
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    dot
       call    spc
       call    dash
       call    dash
       call    dash
       call    spc
       call    dash
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    ps
       return




; Send a dot
dot     movlw   1
       movwf   units
       call    tnunit
       movlw   1
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit
       return




;Send a dash
dash    movlw   3
       movwf   units
       call    tnunit
       movlw   1
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit
       return




;Finish a space
spc     movlw   2
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit
       return




;Finish a pause
ps      movlw   6
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit
       return




; Delay units * 90 cycles of 750 Hz tone
dlunit  movlw   90
       movwf   cyc
dlhi    nop
       bcf     RA0             ;set tone bit low
       call    haf             ;wait a bit

       nop                     ;waste 8 cycles for symmetry
       movlw   2
       movwf   tmp
dlmid   decfsz  tmp,1
       goto    dlmid

       bcf     RA0             ;set tone bit low
       call    haf             ;wait a bit

       decfsz  cyc,1           ;one less cycle to send
       goto    dlpad           ;do another cycle

       decfsz  units,1         ;Another unit done
       goto    dlunit
       return

dlpad   nop                     ;4 cycles for padding
       nop
       goto    dlhi




; Send units * 90 cycles of 750 Hz tone
tnunit  movlw   90
       movwf   cyc
tnhi    nop
       bsf     RA0             ;set tone bit high
       call    haf             ;wait a bit

       nop                     ;waste 8 cycles for symmetry
       movlw   2
       movwf   tmp
tnmid   decfsz  tmp,1
       goto    tnmid

       bcf     RA0             ;set tone bit low
       call    haf             ;wait a bit

       decfsz  cyc,1           ;one less cycle to send
       goto    tnpad           ;do another cycle

       decfsz  units,1         ;Another unit done
       goto    tnunit
       return

tnpad   nop                     ;4 cycles for padding
       nop
       goto    tnhi



; delay for half a cycle of 750 Hz

; A 750 HZ tone is 1.333333 milliseconds
; in duration.  This means each half cycle
; of the tone is 666.6666 microseconds.
; Since I'm using a 6.0 MHz Xtal, this
; is 1000 CPU cycles per tone half cycle.

; Since the routine that calls this to generate
; the tone takes 11 CPU cycles per Tone half
; cycle, we need to burn up 989 CPU cycles
; in this routine.

; This routine takes 13 + ((K -1) * 4) cycles
; where K is the argument for the movlw
; instruction.

haf
       nop
       nop
       nop
       movlw   245
       movwf   cnt
luphaf
       nop
       decfsz  cnt,1
       goto    luphaf
       goto    lupxt
lupxt   nop
       return




       end








; FILE: ddf1.asm




; Ducky direction finder controller for 16C84




;
; 12/07/95 Started work on this file     ...WAR...
;




; Assemble with MPASM /e /l /rDEC /p16C84 ddf1.asm




; RA0/RA1 are used to drive antenna switching.
; RA2/RA3 are used to drive phase indicators.
; RA4 is the audio input.




       include "p16c84.inc"




; Set config fuses to 0x1a
;
; HS oscillator (6 MHz Xtal)
; Watchdog timer disabled
; Power-up timer enabled
; Code protection off




; with a 6 Mhz  Xtal, each cycle is 66.667 usec long
; for a basic 400 Hz tone, the cycle is 2.5 msec.
; This means a half cycle is 1.25 msec, or 1875 CPU cycles.




; our variables
cnt     equ     0x0c
tmp     equ     0x0d




       org   0x000         ; The main line code starts here

; First we do all required initialization

Start

; Set low nybble of port A as output
       bsf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 1
       movlw   0xf0
       movwf   TRISA

; Switch back to bank 0
       bcf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 0

; Ready for main loop
Top     bsf     PORTA,0         ;Turn right antenna on
       bcf     PORTA,1         ;Turn left antenna off
       bcf     PORTA,2
       btfsc   PORTA,4
       bsf     PORTA,2
       call    haf             ;wait a bit
       nop                     ;Burn 2 cycles for symmetry
       nop
       bsf     PORTA,1         ;Turn left antenna on
       bcf     PORTA,0         ;Turn right antenna off
       bcf     PORTA,3
       btfsc   PORTA,4
       bsf     PORTA,3
       call    haf             ;wait a bit
       goto    Top




; delay for half a cycle of 400 Hz.

; A 400 HZ tone is 2.5 milliseconds
; in duration.  This means each half cycle
; of the tone is 1.25 milliseconds.
; Since I'm using a 6.0 MHz Xtal, this
; is 1875 CPU cycles per tone half cycle.

; Since the routine that calls this to generate
; the tone takes 9 CPU cycles per Tone half
; cycle, we need to burn up 1866 CPU cycles
; in this routine.

; This routine takes 10 + ((K - 1) * 16) cycles
; where K is the argument for the movlw
; instruction.

haf

; we need an extra 4 cycles of padding
; to get the time to come out right
       nop
       nop
       nop
       nop

; now we run the main loop 116 times

       movlw   117
       movwf   cnt

hafl    decfsz  cnt,1
       goto    dowt
       return

dowt    call    dly
       goto    hafl




; Burn up 9 cycles.

dly     movlw   2
       movwf   tmp
dlp     decfsz  tmp,1
       goto    dlp
       return




       end
Wynn Rostek
TakeThisOuTwarTakeThisOuTspamTakeThisOuTpalmnet.net
KILLspamwynnEraseMEspampitcairn.ksc.nasa.gov
RemoveMEwynn.rostek.....spamEraseMEksc.nasa.gov

Other Email addresses available if you really need 'em...

'PicList Survey Results!!!'
1996\06\03@094602 by Wireless Scientific

flavicon
face
At 11:16 AM 6/2/96, jory bell wrote:
>consultants. These rates are currently $150/hour per consultant with a
>1-hour minimum per consultant.
>
>Sincerely,
>Jory Bell

getting a little hostle there Jory. Do browser ads burn you up as well?

'Sharing code with PICLIST members'
1996\06\03@124219 by David Tait

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face
Sorry, I meant send the code as _private_ e-mail :-).  Thanks anyway.

So far I have Wynn Rostek's files, Daniel Henzulea's "sonapic" package
and Bojan Dobaj's crippleware that recently turned up on the PICLIST
(plus some other stuff related to PIC programming).  If you are
thinking of adding to the collection it would be a good idea to
include a short description of what your code does or at least a
one-line description to update my table of contents.

David
--
david.taitTakeThisOuTspamspamBeGoneman.ac.uk
ftp://ftp.mcc.ac.uk/pub/micro-controllers/PIC
http://www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/piclinks.html

'PicList Survey Results!!!'
1996\06\03@141522 by myke predko

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face
I applaud Jory's actions, because I feel that he took the correct action
based on the number of times the survey's results were posted.  Yeah so the
original purpose of the survey and response was to demo a software product,
I would probably have objected if action was taken after the first time the
results were posted.

I felt the results would be useful for some of the people on PICLIST who are
in the business of selling things and this would give them demographics of
who their potential customers were.  But I think I saw results four times,
each time with an ad saying what a wonderful product this internet survey
tool was.

Myke
>At 11:16 AM 6/2/96, jory bell wrote:
>>consultants. These rates are currently $150/hour per consultant with a
>>1-hour minimum per consultant.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>Jory Bell
>
>getting a little hostle there Jory. Do browser ads burn you up as well?
>
>
Myke

"We're Starfleet officers, weird is part of the job."

Capt. Catherine Janeway

'Software sent to the list'
1996\06\04@045507 by Jim Main

flavicon
face
Jattie van der Linde <spam_OUTjattievdlKILLspamspam@spam@ISCORLTD.CO.ZA>  sent some large files to
the list which I for one didn't want..

Is this sort of posting allowed in the list?

Can it be prevented somehow?

I sent mine back to the originator in an email attachment

Jim

1996\06\04@051410 by Tony Abbey

flavicon
picon face
On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Jim Main wrote:

> Jattie van der Linde <spamjattievdlspamISCORLTD.CO.ZA>  sent some large files to
> the list which I for one didn't want..
>
> Is this sort of posting allowed in the list?
>
> Can it be prevented somehow?
>
> I sent mine back to the originator in an email attachment
>
> Jim
>
An interesting question - I looked at the files and they contained a
very useful 16C84 programmer application from Microchip, but since the
sender didn't say what they were I guess they would be more of a pain to
most people - especially those running out of disc space.

Tony
________________________________________________________________________________
_

A F Abbey                               E-mail: spamafaspam_OUTspamstar.le.ac.uk
CCD Group
Dept. of Physics and Astronomy          Phone: +44 116 252 3490
University of Leicester                 Fax:   +44 116 252 3311
University Road
LEICESTER LE1 7RH
United Kingdom
________________________________________________________________________________
_

1996\06\04@054358 by Jattie van der Linde

flavicon
face
Tony Abbey wrote:
>
> On Tue, 4 Jun 1996, Jim Main wrote:
> > the list which I for one didn't want..
> > I sent mine back to the originator in an email attachment
> > Jim

> An interesting question - I looked at the files and they contained a
> very useful 16C84 programmer application from Microchip, but since the
> sender didn't say what they were I guess they would be more of a pain
> to most people - especially those running out of disc space.
> Tony

Gee what a funny bunch of guys. Please help me here. I was trying to be
polite, share what I have. The files I've attached was in there original
format with all the shareware details and freeware details included.

Microchip software is supplied to all free of charge. As they say, they
sel silicon, not Software. I already appologised to the mediatorfor
sending software to the discussion list.

Maybe a set of rules should be send to every new user who signs up.

Jattie van der Linde.

1996\06\04@060640 by Andy David

flavicon
face
>> Jattie van der Linde <spamBeGonejattievdlspamspamISCORLTD.CO.ZA>  sent some large files to
>> the list which I for one didn't want..
>>
>> Is this sort of posting allowed in the list?
>>
>> Can it be prevented somehow?
>>
>> I sent mine back to the originator in an email attachment
>>
>> Jim
>>
>An interesting question - I looked at the files and they contained a
>very useful 16C84 programmer application from Microchip, but since the
>sender didn't say what they were I guess they would be more of a pain to
>most people - especially those running out of disc space.

my service provider decided to give an unreliable service this morning,
hence I took over 40 minutes and 3 attempts to download the posting and
I have a v34 modem (usually connects at 24,000, sometimes 26,400
on a good day).I's not even a local call for me. Ok, well done
Jattie for responding to Onat's questions and maybe some people
might well also find the files useful, but I for one would rather have avoided
the exercise.... in future could we use something like pointers to ftp sites or sending direct to the thread originator with a posting of "anyone else want a copy?" (maybe posting it if there is sufficient demand?)?

regards,

- Andy.

Andy David,
Ultronics Division,
Ultra Hydraulics.

1996\06\04@102940 by Newfound Electronics

flavicon
face
snip...
>
>my service provider decided to give an unreliable service this morning,
>hence I took over 40 minutes and 3 attempts to download the posting and
>I have a v34 modem (usually connects at 24,000, sometimes 26,400
>on a good day).I's not even a local call for me. Ok, well done
>Jattie for responding to Onat's questions and maybe some people
>might well also find the files useful, but I for one would rather have avoided
>the exercise.... in future could we use something like pointers to ftp
sites or sending direct to the thread originator with a posting of "anyone
else want a copy?" (maybe posting it if there is sufficient demand?)?
>
>regards,
>
>- Andy.
>
>Andy David,
>Ultronics Division,
>Ultra Hydraulics.
>
I had a similar problem and believe me, I wasn't going to be so polite
with my message about it!!!

I see that others have commented and this saves me all the foul language.
The use of pointers is good and there are several people on the PICLIST
who would ablige with web space if it was PIC related. I absolutly agree
with Andy David's remarks.

I had to telnet in and delete the offending file. This sort of stuffing
around is not something I want to be doing a 12.15AM.

Maybe it was a one-off mistake. Perhaps a set of rules should be
send to every new user who signs up as Jattie van der Linde suggested.
Or maybe people just  ought to be more thoughtful. A formal set of rules
would take more than it would add...

Jim

'List as a digest'
1996\06\05@222433 by Carl Kimball

flavicon
face
Is this list available as a digest, rather than individual messages?

If so, can someone tell me the command to subscribe to the digest,
and to unsubscribe from the individuals?

In another list I subscribe to, you can send "set LISTNAME mail digest"
in the body of the message to change your mode from individual to
digest form.

The document that was sent to me when I subscribed here is very
wordy, but very unspecific about sending commands to the list server.

It simply says "send a command..." and doesn't say whether the command
should be on the Subject line, or in the body of the message. I guess
if you do both, it will figure it out?!?!

Thanks in advance.

*************************************************************
*  Carl Kimball     TEL: 603-669-2836    FAX: 603-669-4124  *
* ========================================================= *
* Eastern Technical Sales : Factory & Laboratory Automation *
*    99 Falcon Crest Way    Manchester  NH  USA  03104      *
*    email:  spam_OUTckimballSTOPspamspamTakeThisOuTets.mv.com  or: KILLspamckimballEraseMEspammv.mv.com    *
*    home page URL:  http://www.mv.com/ipusers/ets          *
*    Amateur Radio Callsign: N1JKT                          *
*************************************************************

1996\06\06@000928 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Carl Kimball <PICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> The document that was sent to me when I subscribed here is very
> wordy, but very unspecific about sending commands to the list
> server.
>
> It simply says "send a command..." and doesn't say whether the
> command should be on the Subject line, or in the body of the
> message. I guess if you do both, it will figure it out?!?!

Yes, it will; it'll ignore the Sunject line and only act on commands
in the BODY of the message.  Remember to send commands to:

   listservspamBeGonespam@spam@mitvma.mit.edu

If anyone else wants the listserver's "help" file, you can get it by
sending mail to the above address with the single word "help" (no
quotes) in the body of the message.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - STOPspamfastfwd.....spamEraseMEix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'Other lists'
1996\06\11@043903 by Andy David

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face
part 0 20 bytes
thanks,


- Andy.


'Z8LIST, or 'parts for sale''
1996\06\14@171448 by Dana Frank Raymond

flavicon
face
Does anyone know where I can post a sell offer for Z8 microcontrollers? Is
there something like the PICLIST for Zilog parts?

A client of mine has 3500 pieces of Z86E08-12PSC OTPs he wants to sell for
$US2.95 each. All new product development (including redesign of existing
products) is now done with PICs (of course!). I was able to shave $Can20.00
off of the price of the latest product using a PIC16C622.

I don't want to annoy... but sometimes a consultant like myself knows of
someone who uses parts from a different manufacturer.

If anyone knows of a clearing house for this kind of activity, please let me
know. Now that I think of it, an EE buy/sell newsgroup, LIST, or other
resource would be great! I would love to pick up development equipment or
software at resale prices. And, what DOES one do with old EPROM programmers,
Z80 emulators, and other EE equipment that one no longer needs?

Along those lines: EETNET allows one time for-sale posts.

Thanks.

Regards, Dana Frank Raymond
dfrspamBeGonespamTakeThisOuTicom.ca

1996\06\14@185630 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Dana Frank Raymond <KILLspamPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> A client of mine has 3500 pieces of Z86E08-12PSC OTPs he wants to
> sell for $US2.95 each.
> ....
> If anyone knows of a clearing house for this kind of activity,
> please let me know.

   You may want to call one of the giants like America II... Their
   number is 800 767-2637.

> what DOES one do with old EPROM programmers, Z80 emulators, and
> other EE equipment that one no longer needs?

   I post ads for them on my company's web page, in the "Garage Sale"
   section.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - EraseMEfastfwdspamspamBeGoneix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'"Subscription to PICLIST"'
1996\06\18@160401 by fragui

flavicon
face
---------------------------
i want to "subscribe PICLIST"

'Where's the pic list archive?'
1996\06\19@093930 by 9 NPL, 2227

flavicon
face
   Is the an archive of PIClist - if so, where is it?

   cheers

       Steve

'list problem'
1996\06\21@073333 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
On Fri, 21 Jun 1996, Steve Hardy wrote:
> BTW I am having some problems, possibly with the list server.  Each time I
> post, I get a 'message not deliverable' reply from (something)@microchip.com,
> even though the posting seems to get through to at least some subscribers.
> Anyone else with this problem?
>
> Regards,
> SJH

Yes, I had my most recent two messages bounce, via a young ladies name
from MicroChip.

How do I know it's a young lady? When you get to my age they are all
young ladies! :)

Suggest there is a small problem and I'll live through it for the time being.
Don...

Don McKenzie spam_OUTdonmckEraseMEspam.....labyrinth.net.au
DonTronics Tullamarine, Australia
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~donmck

Picosaurus-74. The 40 pin PICBasic with 8 channels of A-D, and real Uart.
PIC Basic Compiler. Programmers from $15 US, and Pic-Axe: A New Tool.

1996\06\21@082147 by Jattie van der Linde

flavicon
face
Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> On Fri, 21 Jun 1996, Steve Hardy wrote:
> > BTW I am having some problems, possibly with the list server.  Each time I
> > post, I get a 'message not deliverable' reply from
(something)@microchip.com,
{Quote hidden}

Yes me too like this:

       Message not deliverable
 Date:
       Thu, 20 Jun 1996 10:47:14 -0700
 From:
       spamAdministratorspammicrochip.com (Administrator)
   To:
       Jattie van der Linde <KILLspamjattievdlspamspamEraseMEiscorltd.co.za>

'MLIST.VBX missing'
1996\06\25@153016 by nogueira

flavicon
face
I'm very sorry for the MLIST.VBX missing in my ProPic Programmer, but it
is avaible in my home page.


--

Octavio Nogueira
nogueiraRemoveMEspamSTOPspammandic.com.br
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/tato

1996\06\26@043740 by Keith Dowsett

flavicon
face
>I'm very sorry for the MLIST.VBX missing in my ProPic Programmer, but it
>is avaible in my home page.
>
Hi,


  I've just downloaded your pic programmer and the schematic looks good.
How about adding a pcb overlay to the file?

I have a problem when I try and run the software.  It says it can't find
INPOUT.DLL any suggestions?

Keith.
==========================================================
Keith Dowsett         "Variables won't; constants aren't."

E-mail:      spam_OUTkdowsettspam_OUTspamKILLspamrpms.ac.uk
Phone:       0181-740-3162
Fax:         0181-743-3987

Snail mail:  MRC Clinical Sciences Centre, Cyclotron Unit.
                Hammersmith Hospital. London W12 0NN.

'MLIST.VBX missing, InpOut.DLL replacement'
1996\06\26@062955 by Antti Lukats

flavicon
face
part 0 985 bytes
...[snip]...

>>I'm very sorry for the MLIST.VBX missing in my ProPic Programmer, but it
>>is avaible in my home page.
>>
>Hi,
>   I've just downloaded your pic programmer and the schematic looks good.
>How about adding a pcb overlay to the file?
>
>I have a problem when I try and run the software.  It says it can't find
>INPOUT.DLL any suggestions?

I just wrote it (even as I am not the author...) the compiled version
is attached, I suppose it should work, I only sent it to help those
who cant wait until mister noguiera puts it on his web page :)

Full source of missing InpOut.DLL (Borland Pascal 7.0)

---------- chop -----------
Library InpOut;

Function Inp(a: Word): Byte; Export; Begin Inp := port[a]; End;
Procedure Out(a: Word; data: Byte); Export; Begin port[a] := data; End;

Exports Inp, Out;
Begin End.
---------- chop -----------

have fun folks!

antti


Attachment converted: wonderlandthree:INPOUT.ZIP (BINA/mdos) (00005A8A)

1996\06\26@065316 by Kalle Pihlajasaari

flavicon
face
Hi Antti,

> >I have a problem when I try and run the software.  It says it can't find
> >INPOUT.DLL any suggestions?
>
> I just wrote it (even as I am not the author...) the compiled version
> is attached, I suppose it should work, I only sent it to help those
> who cant wait until mister noguiera puts it on his web page :)

Very cunning of you to take the initiative.

Minun pitaa viella kirjoitaa sinulle vahan tarkempia vastauksia
edellisita kahdesta viestista.

Yksi asia josta voin antaa vahan uutta tietoa on se NitPIC
kieli.  Se kirjoittaja sano faxanneen PRoforma invoicein
minulle (joka ei ole tullut perille) jossa silla on oletettavasti
kysymys demo versiosta.  Han on nyt Kapkaupungissa ja en pysty
otaan yhteytta ennenkuin huomenna varmaan.  Selitan uutisia
kun kuulen tai naen.

Ala vastaa viella tahan eika seuraavaan vastaukseen niin saadaan
'back-log' poin viesteista.

Sinum systeemi aika on vahan vaarassa ja panee sinun viestit
vanhaan paahan listasta.

Cheers
--
Kalle Pihlajasaari     .....kallespamspamdata.co.za
Interface Products     Box 15775, Doornfontein, 2028, South Africa
+27 (11) 402-7750      Fax: +27 (11) 402-7751

'MLIST.VBX missing, InpOut.DLL replacement OOOOOPPP'
1996\06\26@065323 by Kalle Pihlajasaari

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face
Sorry about the previous message, intended to be a direct mail message.
--
spamBeGonekallespam.....data.co.za

'PIC Buglist?'
1996\06\27@141935 by mfahrion

flavicon
face
Can anyone point me to an official or unofficial list and description
of PIC device bugs?  I thought one existed but haven't had any luck
finding such a thing on the web.

Still trying to track down specific info the the 16C74 BRGH bug.

Thanks
-mike
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Mike Fahrion                TakeThisOuTmfahrionTakeThisOuTspamRemoveMEbb-elec.com      http://www.bb-elec.com/
B&B Electronics Mfg Co      ph.(815) 433-5100 ext.215    fax (815) 434-7094
707 Dayton Road                 PO Box 1040                  Ottawa IL 61350
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

1996\06\27@144706 by John Magrane (IsMail)

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face
part 0 368 bytes
>Can anyone point me to an official or unofficial list and description
>of PIC device bugs?  I thought one existed but haven't had any luck
>finding such a thing on the web.

Errata sheets for all Microchip devices are available for downloading
on their BBS in the Errata libraray. Documents are in .PDF format.

John Magrane
Bell Industries
(408) 734-8570



'PICLIST Digest - 30 Jun 1996 to 1 Jul 1996'
1996\07\02@031456 by Bill Bau
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face
Is the MPASM assembler simply a newer version of the older PICALC?  I
am just starting to learn microchip programming and would appreciate if
anyone knows of any beginner books other than "A Beginners Guide To The
Microchip PIC" which I already have.  Thanks
Bill Bau
RemoveMEjasarahKILLspamspamRemoveMEix.netcom.com

1996\07\02@040958 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Bill Bau <spamBeGonePICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Is the MPASM assembler simply a newer version of the older PICALC?

Bill:

Yeah... MPASM's about 3 or 4 years newer.  If you don't have it, you
should definitely get it.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - spamBeGonefastfwd@spam@spamTakeThisOuTix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'PICLIST Digest - 5 Jul 1996 to 6 Jul 1996'
1996\07\08@013543 by Bill Bau

flavicon
face
You wrote:
{Quote hidden}

days ago.  Is there something else I need to do to continue to be on
the list?
Bill Bau
EraseMEjasarahEraseMEspam@spam@ix.netcom.com

'Your removal from the PICLIST list'
1996\07\15@153827 by Dave Duchesneau

picon face
>Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:44:19
>
>You  have  been  removed  from  the  PICLIST  list  (pic  microcontroller
>discussion list) by Jory Bell <joryEraseMEspamMIT.EDU>.
>
>

Say what?!

Why?

I get all my mail at CRL, with no problems, and have for years!

Please resubscribe me, and don't remove me again.  If there is a problem,
I'd appreciate being informed as to its existence and nature, BEFORE any
action is taken.

How on earth can we ask an ISP to resolve a problem without knowing anything
about it? If you've an apparent mail bounce problem, you owe it to the
person to see if they actually get the mail or not. I've never had a report
of trouble from anyone, and would be very interested to see a copy of a
returned mail header, since I've been getting tons list mail here daily....




Dave Duchesneau
Short Order Electronics
.....daved@spam@spamspam_OUTcrl.com
71604.226spam_OUTspamspam_OUTcompuserve.com
(707) 585-3465

1996\07\17@212137 by Onat Ahmet

flavicon
face
       >>You  have  been  removed  from  the  PICLIST  list  (pic  microcontrol
ler
       >>discussion list) by Jory Bell <TakeThisOuTjorySTOPspamspamTakeThisOuTMIT.EDU>.
       >Why?
       >I get all my mail at CRL, with no problems, and have for years!
       >
       >Please resubscribe me, and don't remove me again.  If there is a proble
m,
       >I'd appreciate being informed as to its existence and nature, BEFORE an
y
       >action is taken.
       >
       Get a grip Dave. If you are unhappy with the piclist service start your
own
       list (I mean that.. it's not that hard to start one, and then you'll hav
e
       the joys of maintainence).


Is it not possible to create a Usenet newsgroup on the PIC? There is
certainly enough traffic here to qualify it as a Usenet group. We would
not have to worry about boncing mail too... (Reading the above,
I think that both sides are right to a certain extent...)

Ahmet ONAT

| Ahmet ONAT  Kyoto Univ. Japan                                 |
| E-mail    : STOPspamonat@spam@spamkuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp                           |
| WWW page  : http://turbine.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/staff/onat.html |
|             My 6 leg walker, RC airplanes & more in home page |


'PiC LIst Activity'
1996\08\12@192911 by Mal Rixon
flavicon
picon face
Hi all I have been lurking on this list for a number of months now and
find it very useful.  Congratullations are offeredd to all those who
make it such a worthwhile resource.

My problem is I find that there is probably just too much information.
If I do not down load Email at least every couple of days my post box
gets chaotic.

 I have the following questions:

1.      Where can I find an archive of this list.

2.      Why is this list not available as a news group. It certainly has
the trafic density to warant it.

3.      How do I unsubscribe. I lost the directions after I changed mail
readers.

3.

'PLEASE REMOVE FROM LIST!'
1996\08\12@215059 by Stern Stern

flavicon
face
Dear List Manager:

Someone has maliciously subscribed @spam@sternRemoveMEspamurshan.com to every mailing list there
is
(thousands) without my permission.  I am getting a zillion e-Mails.  Please do
not add anything with urshan.com to any list, and remove it if it already there.

If you can, please check your headers to find out the originating e-Mail address
or Domain, so I can take appropriate action.

Please forgive me if this message is a duplicate as it is impossible to keep
track.

Thank you very much for your prompt attention in this matter.

Sydney Urshan

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/ SYDNEY URSHAN MUSIC                                          _/
_/ Makers of InterScript* and KeyDisk TERMINATOR*               _/
_/ <TakeThisOuTsalesEraseMEspamurshan.com> <RemoveMEsupport.....spamurshan.com>                      _/
_/ http://www.urshan.com/sum                                    _/
_/ alt.music.midi.keydisk-terminator                            _/
_/ alt.mac.copy-protect.kdt-terminator                          _/
_/ For help, e-Mail <RemoveMEKDT-Info.....spamurshan.com> with HELP in the body._/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

1996\08\13@073657 by Stern Stern

flavicon
face
Dear List Manager:

Someone has maliciously subscribed spamBeGonesternTakeThisOuTspamurshan.com to every mailing list there
is (thousands) without my permission.  I am getting a zillion e-Mails.  Please
do
not add anything with urshan.com to any list, and remove it if is already there.

If you can, please check your headers to find out the originating e-Mail address
or Domain, so I can take appropriate action.

Please forgive me if this message is a duplicate as it is impossible to keep
track.

Thank you very much for your prompt attention in this matter.

Sydney Urshan

_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
_/ SYDNEY URSHAN MUSIC                                          _/
_/ Makers of InterScript* and KeyDisk TERMINATOR*               _/
_/ <salesKILLspamspam@spam@urshan.com> <supportKILLspamspamKILLspamurshan.com>                      _/
_/ http://www.urshan.com/sum                                    _/
_/ alt.music.midi.keydisk-terminator                            _/
_/ alt.mac.copy-protect.kdt-terminator                          _/
_/ For help, e-Mail <spamKDT-InfospamBeGonespam@spam@urshan.com> with HELP in the body._/
_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/

'set piclist dig'
1996\08\18@213321 by John Offord

flavicon
face
** Proprietary **

set piclist dig

'Appreciation for PICLIST'
1996\08\21@101933 by Dana Frank Raymond

flavicon
face
Over the last year or two that I've subscribed to the PICLIST I have
received assistance from many people here. I just wanted to say THANK YOU to
everyone involved.

The PICLIST and its members are a wonderful resource. One that I certanly
appreciate. Again, thank you!

Regards, Dana Frank Raymond
spamdfrspamicom.ca

'Wishlist for future PIC'
1996\08\25@150842 by Martin Nilsson

picon face
I think the time has come for another wish list (IMHO). I guess I'm
provoking MicroChip a little bit by this list, but I still think it is
worth serious consideration. The opinions as expressed are my own, but
they are shared by several friends in small AND large companies here.
I welcome comments.

Summary:

1) Fuse matrix for selection of peripherals
 - One application seldom uses all features
 - Reduces stock
 - Map registers only to peripherals that are used
 - Select pins for optimal layout
2) Fewer types of PICs
 - Fewer bugs
 - Don't want a zillion "family modules"
3) Map top-of-stack to register file
 - Use PCLATH for high part
 - For Multi-tasking
 - Simplifies high-level language implementation
4) Multiply instruction (but not like 17Cxx)
 - Separate instructions for low and high byte
 - Can also be used as fast shifter
 - Application: signal processing
5) Flash PROM (Yes, again :-)

The details:

1) Fuse matrix for selection of peripherals --------------------

I'd like a fuse matrix, where I can enable the peripherals that I need for a
particular
application. I hardly ever use all peripherals in any application. It would mean
I didn't
have to use so many different parts. If registers are mapped only to peripherals
that are used,
precious register space is saved. It is also useful to be able to connect
peripherals to pins
that are suitable for an optimal board layout.

(Obviously, it means a larger die. Die size must traded for the other
advantages.)

2) Fewer types of PICs --------------------

(Related to item 1.) Fewer PICs means there are fewer designs that
must be tested, which means more effort could be spent verifying the
designs, and perhaps correcting know mask bugs.  Currently, we have to
get different "family modules" for nearly every new PIC we want to use
with an ICE. One vendor even requires both a family module and a
"member" module.!

3) Map top-of-stack to register file --------------------

(Byron A Jeff <KILLspambyronKILLspamspamspamGEMINI.CC.GATECH.EDU> also mentioned this on the
PIClist recently.) The top-of-stack should be mapped on a register,
and the high part transferrable to/from PCLATH. This would make
multi-tasking possible, and simplify high-level language
implementation.

4) Multiply instruction (but not like 17Cxx) --------------------

There should be a multiply, but I think it should be implemented as two
instructions: One for producing the low byte, and one for the high
byte. 17Cxx uses special registers for the result. I think it is
better with two instructions and ordinary registers, because in many
cases, one byte is necessary. Most of the cycles are taken by moving
data between registers, anyway. I guess this might also fit
the data paths better in the 16Cxx design.

Such a multiply could be also used as a fast shifter.

One of the major applications would be low-end signal processing. With
multiply, simple digital filtering of audio signals would be easily
within reach for the PIC 16Cxx. Imagine what could be done with a 16Cxx
with A/D, multiply, and D/A...!

5) Flash PROM --------------------

Once upon a time (actually about a year ago), someone @microchip.com wrote:
>      However, we are still a relatively small company and out of the
>      1,000,000 things we have to do, program memory EEPROM PIC's are about
>      number 736,492.

Byron A Jeff <RemoveMEbyronspamspam.....GEMINI.CC.GATECH.EDU> wrote:
> > Is there
> > to be a EEPROM version of this chip in the future?
>
> Don't know. Most times whenever someone asks about more EEPROM parts
> The response from Microchip has been along the lines of "too slow, not
> cost effective, no request from real (read thousands of units).

Well, I think those days are now history. New Flash PROM
technology is approaching DRAM speed. Motorola, Siemens, Hitachi, and
Atmel are all releasing MCUs with FlashPROM. I have a news article
claiming that one of Motorola's has 256kbyte Flash with access time 20ns,
runs 33MHz, and takes a 3.3 V supply.

It is a pity MicroChip lost their early initiative here, but I'm sure
they are aware of the competition. If not, they may find themselves in
trouble. Cf. the following message from comp.robotics by
EraseMEmartin_luerssenKILLspamspamspam_OUToms.de (Martin Luerssen):

> > Now, Great idea, eh? But now how do I build it? I was thinking a
microcontroller,
> >specificly a PIC(Why the PIC? Because it's the only one with a simple
programmer
> >that  I could build, and find on the net)
>
> > Now my question would be- Is this possible? Would it be possible to build
this
> >device with a PIC or any other type of microcontroller?
>
> Sure. Personally I'd prefer an Atmel AT89C2051 or AT89C1051.
> They are easier to program than the PIC - Devices, are cheap and can be very
> easily programmed.
>
> They have 2K ( or 1K  for 1051 ) of Flash-Memory integrated, so you can
program
> your Software, test it, program a new Version, program it, test it etc. until
it
{Quote hidden}

preferbly
> >through a parallel port but hey, I am not picky.
>
> You can use the On-Chip UART of the 89C2051 for a simple RS-232-Connect with
> another Computer.

I find Atmel interesting in particular because of their plans to
release an ARM with Flash PROM. I have previously used AMD 29k for my
high-end applications. After being let down by AMD (29k was really
great, >sigh<), I'm looking around for a successor.  While Intel
80xxx, M683xx, Hitachi H8/H16, and PowerPC are less interesting for a
variety of reasons, ARM with Thumb stands out pretty clearly. It works
in variety of high-speed and/or low-power technologies, and exciting
new designs are based on it, e.g. the completely asynchronous AMULET
at the University of Manchester (UK). I wish MicroChip looked that way
for their high-end plans...

I would be interested in hearing opinions by any of you who have used
ARMs.

Cheers,

Martin Nilsson                           http://www.sics.se/~mn/
Swedish Institute of Computer Science    E-mail: mnTakeThisOuTspamsics.se
Box 1263, S-164 28 Kista                 Fax: +46-8-751-7230
Sweden                                   Tel: +46-8-752-1574

1996\08\26@175557 by Eric Smith

flavicon
face
Martin Nilsson <@spam@mnSTOPspamspamSICS.SE> wrote:

> I'd like a fuse matrix, where I can enable the peripherals that I need for
> a particular application. I hardly ever use all peripherals in any
> application. It would mean I didn't have to use so many different parts. If
> registers are mapped only to peripherals that are used, precious register
> space is saved. It is also useful to be able to connect peripherals to pins
> that are suitable for an optimal board layout.
> (Obviously, it means a larger die. Die size must traded for the other
> advantages.)

You're talking about a *much* larger die.  I mean, maybe it wouldn't be
a lot larger than a 16C74, but it would be a lot bigger than a 16C620.  And
cost increases more than linearly with die area.  I don't want to pay '74
prices for a '620; the reason I use PICs is that they are *cheap*; I don't
want to start paying more.

Maybe such a part would be useful for development; on the other hand, I would
never trust it to exactly match the actual behavior and performance of the
final part.  As it is, I typically use a 16C74, 16C622, or 16C84 for
prototyping, even when I plan to use a smaller part.  That way I can just buy
a lot of "JW" parts of only a few models (I don't believe in waiting for
the eraser to beep), and maybe just one or two each of the others.

Cheers,
Eric

1996\08\26@180423 by Mark K Sullivan

flavicon
face
Eric:

I second Eric.  I want PICs to get cheaper, not bigger.

- Mark Sullivan -

1996\08\28@124616 by mike

flavicon
picon face
In message  <EraseME199608251908.VAA23926.....spamEraseMEbrahma.sics.se> spamPICLIST@spam@spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
writes:
> I think the time has come for another wish list (IMHO). I guess I'm
> provoking MicroChip a little bit by this list, but I still think it is
> worth serious consideration. The opinions as expressed are my own, but
> they are shared by several friends in small AND large companies here.
> I welcome comments.
>
> Summary:
>
> 2) Fewer types of PICs
>   - Fewer bugs
>   - Don't want a zillion "family modules"

I agree.

> 3) Map top-of-stack to register file
>   - Use PCLATH for high part
>   - For Multi-tasking
>   - Simplifies high-level language implementation

I like the idea of this.



I would like a decrement if non-zero command. I use lots of down
counters in some of my projects, and would like a single instruction
to replace to following:


  movf    DownCtr, f
  btfss   sts, z
  decf    DownCtr, f

Regards,



Mike


'Please add me to your mailing list.'
1996\09\10@115649 by Ted Linn
flavicon
face
Please add me to your mailing list.  I have been told that you have an
archive of pic related documents.  Please tell me how I can access these.

Thanks.

Ted Linn
Assistant Research Engineer
Research Instruments Group
Chemistry Department
333 Whitmore Lab
University Park,  Pa.  16802
814-863-7107

1996\09\17@131853 by Ted Linn

flavicon
face
Please add me to your mailing list.  I have been told that you have an
archive of pic related documents.  Please tell me how I can access these.

Thanks.

Ted Linn
Assistant Research Engineer
Research Instruments Group
Chemistry Department
333 Whitmore Lab
University Park,  Pa.  16802
814-863-7107

'PICLIST Digest - 16 Sep 1996 to 17 Sep 1996'
1996\09\18@055012 by Mujimpa

flavicon
>374 is a perfect square.  How many fingers does a Martian Have?


thsuy ee muskim thia porju kemana toskho cijam 101110110 yoharmo ee usmon -
co muskimin gunie thia whumu 101 >> 1111 soughi thia muskim jamma thi.

... = 1111



Mujimpa


spam_OUTMujimpaspam_OUTspamspamBeGonepic.mars

1996\09\18@072510 by liebchen

flavicon
face
Mujimpa wrote:
>
> >374 is a perfect square.  How many fingers does a Martian Have?
>
> thsuy ee muskim thia porju kemana toskho cijam 101110110 yoharmo ee usmon -
> co muskimin gunie thia whumu 101 >> 1111 soughi thia muskim jamma thi.
>
> ... = 1111
>
> Mujimpa
>
> .....MujimpaSTOPspamspampic.mars

Hey, that's not fair!!  Martians are insiders and are not
allowed to take part in this competition!

Wolfram

--

+------------------------------------------------+
! Wolfram Liebchen, Forschungsinstitut fŸr Optik !
! STOPspamliebchen@spam@spamffo.fgan.de                    !
+------------------------------------------------+

'PICLIST Digest - 16 Sep 1996 to 17 Sep 1996 -Reply'
1996\09\18@084434 by Mark Jurras

flavicon
face
I hope this doesn't start a "Don't use Martian, Venusian or Spanish on this
list" thread again.

>>> Mujimpa <@spam@MujimpaEraseMEspamPIC.MARS> 18 September 1996  5:49 am >>>
>374 is a perfect square.  How many fingers does a Martian Have?


thsuy ee muskim thia porju kemana toskho cijam 101110110 yoharmo ee usmon -
co muskimin gunie thia whumu 101 >> 1111 soughi thia muskim jamma thi.

... = 1111



Mujimpa


spam_OUTMujimpaspampic.mars

'important administrivia (potential list shutdown)!'
1996\09\18@235044 by Mr. Brooke Clarke

flavicon
face
jory:

I have been reading the pic list for only about a month.

I am about to unsubscribe because of the high volume of
email it generates.  I do NOT want to get a single email
for this list because it is easy to move a single message
into my "PIC" mail folder.

I would like to see the list server replaced by a regular
newsgroup.  The level of traffic seems to be there and I
expect that more people would use it.  (I have seen a number
of people trying to unsubscribe in the short time I have been
reading the listserver.)

In either case keep up the good work.

Brooke Clarke, N6GCE

1996\09\19@023507 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
It doesn't have to be a "real" recipient, right?  There ought to be someone
with a fast machine that can set up forwarding to /dev/null or the
equivilent.

BillW

'list administrativa'
1996\09\19@051419 by &Ltwouter Suverkropp

picon face
Hi Jory and others,

What if we ask Microchip really nicely to help? After all, it is in their
interest to keep this discussion platform open. Can't the error stream be
'dev/null'ed' to a fake user at MIT?
For those worried about irrelevant messages, a newsgroup will be a nightmare.

Wouter

1996\09\19@052245 by Chaipi Wijnbergen

flavicon
picon face
Hi PICers,


> For those worried about irrelevant messages, a newsgroup will be a nightmare.

I would realy hate if this list turns into a news group. I like to be
able to ask a question and get an answer into my mail as soon as someone
write to me (My mail program is running all the time). I wouldn't like to
use the news and look at all the time waiting for messages.

Also, how about asking Microchip to handle the list instead of MIT and
not only the nul/dev ?

Chaipi

'important administrivia (potential list shutdown)!'
1996\09\19@070958 by anick

flavicon
face
jory bell wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I would gladly accept the error traffic. I am the system Admin for my
domain, and setting up
an account and a cron job for this stuff would be easy.

What do we do next.

--
Alan Nickerson
spamanick.....spamTakeThisOuT428main.com

---------
It seems to me that the best new ideas come from
people who don't know that they "can't".  -- Paul Mathews,
TakeThisOuToptoeng@spam@spamTakeThisOuTWHIDBEY.COM

1996\09\19@070958 by anick

flavicon
face
jory bell wrote:
{Quote hidden}

I would gladly accept the error traffic. I am the system Admin for my
domain, and setting up
an account and a cron job for this stuff would be easy.

What do we do next.

--
Alan Nickerson
anickspamspam428main.com

---------
It seems to me that the best new ideas come from
people who don't know that they "can't".  -- Paul Mathews,
EraseMEoptoengspam_OUTspamspamWHIDBEY.COM

1996\09\19@083001 by eric p freischlag

picon face
Could you break it up so several people could do it, maybe once a week
or only so much bandwidth or a few of the functions.  i would like to
help
with things like this, but like you i have more things to do than time.
On Wed, 18 Sep 1996 19:42:47 -0800 jory bell <jorySTOPspamspamMIT.EDU> writes:
{Quote hidden}

'list administrativa'
1996\09\19@171022 by hoss karoly

flavicon
face
this list is great ! please don't let it stop
a newsgroup requires to be on-line and this would raise my phone-bill
I can speak only for myself but I guess I am a tipical member
no other list gave nearly as many links , connections to techniques
not condensed elsewhere
don't let it die
bye
charley

1996\09\19@173111 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Chaipi Wijnbergen <EraseMEPICLISTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I would realy hate if this list turns into a news group.

   I think most of us who actively participate on the list feel the
   same way, although a news group MIGHT be better for those people
   who only "lurk" on the list.

> Also, how about asking Microchip to handle the list instead of MIT

   Microchip already has a web page and a BBS (accessible,
   incidentally, as a set of newsgroups).  I don't think they'd
   want to take on the additional responsibility of handling this
   list.

   Moreover, I think the list quality would deteriorate if it were
   run by Microchip... It's important to have a non-moderated
   (non-moderated by Microchip, I mean) forum for discussion of
   their products.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - TakeThisOuTfastfwd.....spamTakeThisOuTix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'list update (we're saved!)'
1996\09\20@091104 by myke predko

flavicon
face
Jory,

I just wanted to thank you for all the work you've done keeping this monster
in control.  I can't imagine how much work and aggravation it's been for you
(especially in light of what's gone on this week), but you've really done a
terrific job.

Thanx,

Myke
{Quote hidden}

Do you ever feel like an XT Clone caught in the Pentium Pro Zone?

1996\09\20@092539 by anick

flavicon
face
I am happy to be able to take on the piclist error mail. I am the System
Administrator here for this and a couple of other domains. Our mail
server does not get an excessive amount of traffic and has lots of space
for this type of stuff.

My main reason for deciding to provide this service is that I only
dabble in electronics and such and have found the information on the
piclist very useful, but could not contribute in a like manner. So this
was my opertunity to contribute and learn more about  mailings lists and
Listerv(tm).

Thanks to Jory for giving me this opertunity and I hope to be able to do
what I can to help.

--
Alan Nickerson
Imaging Technology Corp.
508-568-3600 x152

'PICLIST Digest - 22 Sep 1996 to 23 Sep 1996'
1996\09\24@012056 by Luiz Marques

flavicon
face
Patrick wrote:
> Date:    Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:43:08 +1000
> From:    Patrick Hanson <TakeThisOuTP.HansonKILLspamspamKILLspamUWS.EDU.AU>
> Subject: Connecting multiple rs232 lines together
>
> I am hoping somebody out there in PIC land may be able to help me.
> I am currently working on a simple home automation system using multiple
> 16C84's (max of 10) fitted with rs232 trancievers as slaves and a PC as
> the master controller. I am not sure how to go about connecting all the TXD
> lines on the slaves to the PC without causing possible conflicts. It is
> intend

Gerard Chew wrote:
>
>  What I'm looking for is like, ok, you connect one pin of the
> Stamp to the Tx, one to the Rx and then ...etc?  What about some sample  code
> to tie the whole thing together?


I sent the following message a few days ago to Mr. Gerard

My 75156 parts just arrived to me but I did not stick them to my prototipe
because I have been busy with overdue projects for my work. However I'll try a
sketch to you (in a robot style!!!?).

Pin 8:  to +5 Vdc
Pin 5:  to GND
Pins 6/7: to RS-485 link (twisted pair) (field wiring)
Pin 1:  Rx Data, to a input port pin of STAMP
Pin 4:  Tx Data, to a output port pin of STAMP
Pin 3:  TX Enable, to another output port pin of STAMP
Pin 2:  Rx Enable, to another output port pin of STAMP

This requires four pins of STAMPs  (too much)
A more economical approach should be tie pin 3 and 2 toghether to a output of
STAMP. This signal means: 0 -> STAMP receiving  or  1 -> STAMP transminting.

If you want to reduce again the pin counts (in STAMP), tie pins 1 and 4
toghether to a STAMP pin. This STAMP port shall be bi-directional, in another
words, this pin will be output when STAMP is transmiting and will be input when
STAMP is receiving. It's easely implemented with tri-state capabilities of
STAMP.

Two pins looks like:

------                             ---------------
     |output pin (flow ctrl) 2,3 |               |6          RS-485 Link
     |---------------------------|               |------------ DATA
STAMP |                           |    75156      |
     |in/out pin (data)      1,4 |               |7
     |---------------------------|               |------------ /DATA
     |                           |               |
------                             ---------------


Sorry I don't write one line of source code yet! But in slave STAMP you must be
in receive mode *listening* to master queries (pins 2,3 -> 0 and pins 1,4 ->
input to STAMP).

I foud National Semi DS75176B at $1 in 500 qty

When I hookup my prototipe I will tell you if it worked out.

I suppose this arrangement work without problems but I'm not sure

Also, I'm interested in a one master many slaves simple protocol. Any pointer?

Luiz

'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This'
1996\09\26@023615 by fastfwd

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Dudes:

As many of you know, the PICLIST was started in early 1994 by Jory
Bell, who's been operating, maintaining, and (occasionally)
moderating it since then.  If you subscribe to other internet mailing
lists, you know that this one is particularly well-run; Jory's
managed to make the list a truly valuable resource for all of us, and
we all owe him a huge debt of gratitude.

There are now over 1,000 subscribers to the list, and it's becoming
increasingly difficult for Jory to run it with his existing equipment.
Last week, as you know, he even considered dissolving the list
because the error traffic generated by the list server had grown to
the point where it was overloading his 8-year-old Macintosh SE.

That short-term problem has been solved, at least temporarily, but
it's not hard to foresee further problems which might not be handled
so easily.  For example, MIT currently provides the list service for
free, but only because Jory once performed some consulting work for
the university.  Every so often, the university notifies Jory that
they're going to pull his free account, and he's only managed to keep
it THIS long through the assistance of an MIT faculty member who's
been lobbying on his behalf.

Sooner or later, though, the MIT account will go away and Jory will
be faced with the prospect of having to invest not only his time,
but a significant sum of money in order to keep the list running.

Here's the deal:

If we can collect some money for Jory, there'll be a greater chance
that he'll be able to keep the list running no matter what happens
with his MIT account.  If we collect enough, Jory may even be able
to set up a PICLIST web site, list-member FTP site, etc.

I've set up an account at a local bank specifically for this PICLIST
Fund.  The bank doesn't want to receive checks directly, so if you'd
like to contribute, please send checks only (I don't want to deal
with cash or credit cards) to the following address:

   The PICLIST Fund
   c/o Fast Forward Engineering
   1984 Casablanca Court
   Vista, CA  92083-5043
   USA

IMPORTANT:  Checks must be made out to "Andrew Warren and Jory
           Bell"; BOTH of our signatures will be required in order
           for any funds to be withdrawn from the account, so this
           shouldn't make anyone nervous.

           Please include your e-mail address with your check.

           If you want your donation to be anonymous (as far as the
           rest of the list is concerned), please include a note to
           that effect.

To ensure that everything is aboveboard, I'll be doing the following:

   1.  Whenever a donation is received, I'll assign a "contribution
   number" to it and notify the contributor in private e-mail that
   his donation has been received.

   2.  Every two weeks, I'll post a summary of the Fund activity.
   This summary will detail EVERY donation, including the
   contribution number and (unless you've told me otherwise) each
   contributor's name.

   3.  I'll be happy to tell any potential contributor how to get
   in touch with an officer at the bank where the PICLIST Fund
   account is located... Just send me private e-mail.

At this time, I expect that we'll keep the account open for only six
months or so, then close it and send all the cash to Jory Bell.  If
we end up keeping the account longer (beyond the April 15th
income-tax deadline), we'll probably withdraw the appropriate tax
from the account.  ASIDE FROM THAT ONE POSSIBLE WITHDRAWAL, NO MONEY
WILL BE WITHDRAWN FOR ANY PURPOSE UNTIL THE ACCOUNT IS CLOSED.  I'm
going to be managing the fund on my own time; NO PORTION of your
donations will go to me.

Now, everyone CAN contribute, but no one HAS to.  Donations are
ABSOLUTELY voluntary; you won't gain any personal privileges if you
donate, and you won't lose any if you don't.  No one will think any
less of you if you choose not to contribute to the fund, and if you
don't contribute, the list (for as long as it's operational) will
continue to be available to you for free, as it always has been.

I've given some thought to "suggested donation amounts".  If you
want to contribute but don't think these amounts are appropriate,
please send whatever amount makes you comfortable (and, if you think
the following suggestions are WILDLY inappropriate, please let me
know in private e-mail).  Do give the following some thought,
though:

   SUGGESTED DONATION AMOUNTS:

   FRIEND           If you're a Student, you should be able to
   (Student):  $10  afford $10.  This is less than the cost of
                    one audio compact disc or a tank of gasoline,
                    and it's not much more than the quantity-one
                    retail price of a PIC16C84.

   FRIEND           If a Student can afford $10, anyone with a job
   (Employed): $30  should be able to afford $30.

   PATRON:     $50  A decent programming reference book costs at
                    least this much.  If you've received as much
                    useful information from the list as you might
                    reasonably expect to find in the average
                    textbook and want to show your gratitude, this
                    is the way.

   GOD:        $75  Many of us have actually profited financially
                    from the list, either through help that other
                    list-members gave us with our commercial
                    products or through sales of development
                    software and hardware that we've advertised on
                    the list.  If you fall into this category, a $75
                    donation shouldn't significantly affect your
                    balance sheet.

ONE MORE IMPORTANT NOTE:

   I'm going to ensure that all the collected donations go directly
   to Jory Bell, but I'm making NO PROMISES as to the eventual use
   to which he puts it.  Even Jory doesn't yet know exactly what
   he'll spend the money on.

   In fact, Jory may decide to use the money to take a trip to
   Tahiti or something.  Personally, I don't care -- I figure that,
   after all the work he's put into the list, he DESERVES a vacation
   -- but if you're the type of person who wants to know PRECISELY
   what your dnation will be used for, this may be an issue.

   If that's the case, please send your suggestions for possible
   uses of the money to me in private e-mail.  I'll summaarize the
   suggestions I've received in my bi-weekly reports and, of
   course, pass them on to Jory.

I've tried to think of everything here, especially in the area of
assuring everyone that the PICLIST Fund will be managed honestly and
responsibly, but if you think I've omitted anything or if you have
any other suggestions, please feel free to tell me in private e-mail.

Remember:  Donations are COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwdSTOPspamspamRemoveMEix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\09\27@122606 by Steve Davidson

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Andrew, Jory, and List;

I will be glade to donate for the list and any trips Jory wants to take,
I find the list VERY VALUABLE....but, the direction seems a little soft.
How about setting up a commercial account on one of the local commercial
servers.  Most of these will provide a e-mail, web page, and required
storage.  This would take a lot of the load off Jory, be transferable if
Jory decides to retire, etc.  Jory, acting as the list SA, should be paid
some amount or give extra privileges to compensate for his time.  I would
imagine this would run in the $50- 100/month range.  Companies, such as
Microchip, could donate to this service if they like, but they get no
control of any sort in doing so. With a thousand users you are talking
about a couple buck a year each, and the list has no obligations to
anyone.  i.e. it could switch servers if their is any problems.  By
taking donated money and buying hardware you will eventually end up in
some sort of a "disagreement" when changes need to be made.  Try to make
it a hands off type operation that can be easily passed on to others.  I
know in the DC area you can get your own web page, couple meg of storage,
internet connection and e-mail for $15 - 25 month.  I can check here in
the Boulder area, but I'm not much of a SA, so it would be best to find
something in Jory's  or Andrew's area.

This is a suggestion and I will be glade to donate on what ever the final
solution is.

You guys are doing great,

Steve



--- On Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:40:01 -0800  Andrew Warren
<spamBeGonefastfwdspam@spam@ix.netcom.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

-----------------End of Original Message-----------------

-------------------------------------
E-mail: KILLspamsdavidsonKILLspamspamits.bldrdoc.gov
Steven Davidson
Dept. of Comm.  NTIA-ITS.N2
325 Broadway
Boulder, CO  80303
W 303-497-3411  FAX 5995
-------------------------------------

'The PICLIST Fund FAQ'
1996\09\28@034643 by fastfwd

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Frequently-Asked Questions regarding the PICLIST Fund
-----------------------------------------------------

This FAQ is HUGE... How often are you going to be filling my mailbox
with copies of it?

   Approximately once every two weeks while the Fund is open, then
   never again.  The PICLIST generates 20-50 messages per day, so
   this FAQ should represent only a very small percentage of the
   total list traffic.

Why do we need the PICLIST Fund?

   The PICLIST was started in early 1994 by Jory Bell, who's been
   operating, maintaining, and (occasionally) moderating it since
   then.  If you subscribe to other internet mailing lists, you know
   that this one is particularly well-run; Jory's managed to make
   the list a truly valuable resource for all of us, and we all owe
   him a huge debt of gratitude.

   Lately, however, a number of issues have arisen:

       1.  The free MIT list-server that Jory has ben using may go
       away, necessitating a switch to a commercial server.

       2.  List-administration and -maintenance requirements have
       grown along with the PICLIST membership (currently, over
       1000 people subscribe to the list), and Jory's old hardware is
       starting to become overloaded.

       3.  We'd all like to add new peripheral services to the
       PICLIST. An FTP site, web page, etc., would all be nice.

   The Fund exists in order to give list-members a way to donate
   money to the PICLIST.  The Fund will be open for donations for
   six months, then it'll be closed and all the collected money
   will be given to Jory.

Who's the custodian of the Fund?

   I am.

Why you?

   Why not?  Someone had to do it.

I thought the PICLIST was free.  Does this mean that we'll now have
to pay money for access?

   NO!

   Everyone CAN contribute, but no one HAS to.  Donations are
   ABSOLUTELY voluntary; you won't gain any personal privileges if
   you donate, and you won't lose any if you don't.  No one will
   think any less of you if you choose not to contribute to the
   Fund, and if you don't contribute, the list (for as long as it's
   operational) will continue to be available to you for free, as it
   always has been.

   Jory has no intention of transforming the PICLIST into a
   fee-based service; the Fund has been set up for one-time
   voluntary donations only.

What will the money be used for?

   I don't know yet, and neither does Jory... Until we have an idea
   of how much money there'll be, it doesn't make much sense to
   decide how to spend it.

   If you have any specific suggestions, however, please send them
   to me in private e-mail (Jory's busy enough already) and I'll
   pass them along to him.

   All we know right now is that we want to ensure that the PICLIST
   can survive without depending on the generosity of any one
   individual or corporation.  If we can also expand the PICLIST to
   include auxiliary services like a list-member FTP site for
   distributing code samples, list archives, etc., that'd be great,
   too.

   One thing that you CAN be sure of is that ALL of the money will
   go to Jory... I'm donating the time and effort required to
   maintain the Fund; NO PORTION of the money is going to me.

What if we donate our money and the list disappears anyway?  Will
there be any refunds?

   No.

So how do we know that Jory won't just take the money and run?

   We don't.  The money in the Fund will be given to Jory WITH NO
   STRINGS ATTACHED, so there are NO GUARANTEES as to the use to
   which he'll put it.

   If this makes you uncomfortable, try to think of your donation
   as an expression of gratitude for information you've ALREADY
   received from the list.

   If you STILL feel uncomfortable, please don't donate.

How do we know that YOU won't take the money and run?

   I guess you don't, really... But keep in mind that I run a
   business whose success depends largely on my personal
   reputation.  It wouldn't make much sense for me to risk that
   reputation for a sum of money that I expect will amount to less
   than what my business generates every couple of weeks.

   To ensure that contributors can track their donations, I'll be
   doing the following:

       1.  Whenever a donation is received, I'll assign a
       "contribution number" to it and notify the contributor in
       private e-mail that his donation has been received.

       2.  Every two weeks, I'll post a summary of the Fund
       activity. This summary will detail EVERY donation, including
       the contribution number and (unless you've told me otherwise)
       each contributor's name.

   Also, I'll be happy to tell any potential contributor how to get
   in touch with an officer at the bank where the PICLIST Fund
   account is located... Just send me private e-mail.

How do I donate to the Fund?

   I've set up an account at a local bank specifically for the
   PICLIST Fund.  The bank doesn't want to receive checks directly,
   so if you'd like to contribute, please send checks only (I don't
   want to deal with cash or credit cards) to the following address:

       The PICLIST Fund
       c/o Fast Forward Engineering
       1984 Casablanca Court
       Vista, CA  92083-5043
       USA

   IMPORTANT:  Checks must be made out to "Andrew Warren and Jory
               Bell"; BOTH of our signatures will be required in
               order for any funds to be withdrawn from the account,
               so this shouldn't make anyone nervous.

               Please include your e-mail address with your check.

               If you want your donation to be anonymous (as far as
               the rest of the list is concerned), please include a
               note to that effect.

Is my donation tax-deductible as a "charitable contribution to a
non-profit organization"?

   No.  For income-tax-reporting purposes, Jory will probably
   report it as "gift income".

How much should I donate?

   The short answer is, "As much as you feel is appropriate."

   I've given some thought to this, though, and I've come up with
   some suggestions based on a three-tiered "contributor level":

    LEVEL:    AMOUNT:               EXPLANATION:
   ---------------------------------------------------------------

   FRIEND      $10    If you're a Student, you should be able to
   (Student)          afford $10.  This is less than the cost of
                      one audio compact disc or a tank of gasoline,
                      and it's not much more than the quantity-one
                      retail price of a PIC16C84.

   FRIEND      $30    If a Student can afford $10, anyone with a job
   (Employed)         should be able to afford $30.

   PATRON:     $50    A decent programming reference book costs at
                      least this much.  If you've received as much
                      useful information from the list as you might
                      reasonably expect to find in the average
                      textbook and want to show your gratitude, this
                      is the way.

   GOD:        $75    Many of us have actually profited financially
                      from the list, either through help that other
                      list-members gave us with our commercial
                      products or through sales of development
                      software and hardware that we've advertised on
                      the list.  If you fall into this category, a
                      $75 donation shouldn't significantly affect
                      your balance sheet.

   Note that contributing at a particular level doesn't actually
   MEAN anything... Sorry, but you won't receive a commemorative
   T-shirt or coffee mug even if you donate at the "God" level.

I don't live in the USA.  Can I contribute with a check drawn on
funds other than US dollars?

   Yes.

I have more questions about the Fund.  Should I send them to Jory
Bell?

   Probably not.  Jory and I are in contact, but he's not involved
   in the day-to-day running of the Fund.  It'd be best to send
   your questions to me IN PRIVATE E-MAIL.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - spamBeGonefastfwdspamRemoveMEix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\09\28@093342 by Philip Lalone

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On Sat, 28 Sep 1996, Andrew Warren wrote:

> Why do we need the PICLIST Fund?
>
>     The PICLIST was started in early 1994 by Jory Bell, who's been
>     operating, maintaining, and (occasionally) moderating it since
>     then.  If you subscribe to other internet mailing lists, you know
>     that this one is particularly well-run; Jory's managed to make
>     the list a truly valuable resource for all of us, and we all owe
>     him a huge debt of gratitude.

       Instead of a charity drive, why not try to find someone willing to
dedicated their hardware and bandwidth to the list?  If people want to
send Jory money for what he's done, that fine, but I highly doubt it'll be
enough to help him get all the items listed, and to keep it, the money
will have to keep coming.  Microchip comes to mind, they have a nice
domain, and it would be quite appopriate if they did take over the list,
that is, if they were willing.

                                       Philip Lalone
                                       Alpha-X Development

'Web site for this list'
1996\09\28@163323 by ccs

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I have some space on my server for a web site for this list if the list
is interested.  I am a student, but I have a connection through an ISP.

'unsubsribe piclist'
1996\09\28@164153 by sv_calif

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unsubsribe piclist

'PICLIST Digest - 27 Sep 1996 to 28 Sep 1996'
1996\09\29@041206 by Bill Bau

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I have both beginner books for PIC ("Easy Pic'n" and "A Beginners Guid
to PIC") and I have found both to be very informative for a beginner.

'The PICLIST Fund FAQ'
1996\09\29@160119 by fastfwd

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     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Philip Lalone <spamPICLISTEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Instead of a charity drive, why not try to find someone willing to
> dedicated their hardware and bandwidth to the list?

   Many people have offered, and Jory may decide to take one of
   those offers.  In general, though, I think we'd all like to
   ensure that the survival of the list desn't rely on anyone's
   generosity.

> If people want to send Jory money for what he's done, that fine,
> but I highly doubt it'll be enough to help him get all the items
> listed, and to keep it, the money will have to keep coming.

   Jory has no plans to make the list a fee-based service.

   It's interesting... I've received a lot of email already from
   people who are donating, and I don't think ANY of them have
   mentioned the new services that Jory might choose to add to the
   PICLIST.  As I recall, all of them just thanked Jory for the work
   he's done so far.

   As I said in the Fund FAQ... If you don't feel that the Fund will
   make a difference, and you don't feel that you've already
   received enough from the PICLIST to warrant a donation, then
   please don't donate.

> Microchip comes to mind, they have a nice domain, and it would be
> quite appopriate if they did take over the list, that is, if they
> were willing.

   It's important for the list to remain an independent forum... I
   don't think you'll find much support for the idea that it'd be
   "quite appropriate" for Microchip to "take over the list".

   There's already another internet mailing list devoted to PICs...
   But it's owned and moderated by a commercial vendor of PIC
   development toys (excuse me, I mean "development tools").  As a
   result, its content is nowhere NEAR as good as what's here on the
   PICLIST.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwdspamBeGonespamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'unsubsribe piclist'
1996\09\30@110238 by bUrP!

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unsubsribe piclist
[: GoezzispamTakeThisOuTCistron.nl :]
[  L*T M* B* W*cK*d   ]


'Binaries in PICLIST'
1996\10\01@004335 by David Negro
picon face
Folks,
Am I the only one that thinks that binaries are unacceptable for this
mail-list?  If an individual explicitly asks for a binary file to be sent
via email, that is ok.  I however, do not think it appropriate to mail a
binary file to the group, which if memory serves me, goes to some 1000
people!  Not to mention souls like myself who subscribe to the digest.
This tends to make a mess.  Please be more considerate next time.

Thanks,
-Dave Negro

'PICLIST Digest - 29 Sep 1996 to 30 Sep 1996'
1996\10\01@012347 by Bill Bau

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I need to program 16C5X parts with assembly code that was assembled
using the old PICALC assembler which output .OBJ files and was
formatted as INHX16.  This was ok when I was using the older PICPRO II
programmer but now I am using the PROMATE II which only recognizes
INHX8M format and .HEX files.  Is there a way to convert the INHX16/OBJ
files to INHX8M/HEX files?  Any help would be appreciated.

1996\10\01@020029 by TONY NIXON 54964

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You may have to re-assemble the code with MPASM and to do this you
need to specify which processor you are using with the command line
or the LIST directive.

You should move all of you lables to column 1 and Directives to
column 2, but avoiding this only generates minor errors.

Any Radix changes also need to be made compatible with the current
MPASM version. eg. movlw .5,  movlw b'00001111' etc.

Regards

Tony


Just when I thought I knew it all,
I learned that I didn't.

'unsubsribe piclist'
1996\10\01@033757 by Keith Dowsett

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Hi,

  I think you want to send your request to the list server
(LISTSERVspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU) not to the list.

Keith.
==========================================================
Keith Dowsett         "Variables won't; constants aren't."

E-mail: spamkdowsettspamrpms.ac.uk
WWW:    http://kd.rpms.ac.uk/index.html

'Source/program files on the list.'
1996\10\01@061307 by Keith Dowsett

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Hi,

  I'm sure we had a discussion on this a little while ago but it's back
already.
My preference is _not_ to recieve big files from the list. A few lines of
code to illustrate a problem/solution is fine, but if possible could the big
files be put
on a www server or ftp server with a pointer in the mailing. Where this is
not possible why not mail them directly (don't use Reply without thinking)
to the people who request a copy.

Just my 2d worth,

Keith.
==========================================================
Keith Dowsett         "Variables won't; constants aren't."

E-mail: EraseMEkdowsettKILLspamspamRemoveMErpms.ac.uk
WWW:    http://kd.rpms.ac.uk/index.html

'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This'
1996\10\01@114145 by Andy Errington

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>From:  Steve Davidson[SMTP:spam_OUTdavidsonTakeThisOuTspam@spam@ITS.BLDRDOC.GOV]
>Snip<
>How about setting up a commercial account on one of the local
>commercial
>servers.  Most of these will provide a e-mail, web page, and required
>storage.  This would take a lot of the load off Jory, be transferable
>if
>Jory decides to retire, etc.  Jory, acting as the list SA, should be
>paid
>some amount or give extra privileges to compensate for his time.  I
>would
>imagine this would run in the $50- 100/month range.  Companies, such as
>Microchip, could donate to this service if they like, but they get no
>control of any sort in doing so.
>Snip<

Whilst I am appreciative of the PICLIST forum, where I have received
much help, and been able to give (I hope) some help I can't help
thinking why Microchip do not fund the mailing list.  True they may
'moderate' (=censor) the list, but it is not really in their interest so
to do.

Parallax (makers of the BASIC Stamp, based on a Microchip PIC) support
and maintain the Stamp mailing list, so why not?

Microchip, if you are there, give Jory some cash for a pint, and pay him
to set up a commercial mailing list for you (assuming he wants to).

Andy (the other one)
BTW I have five fingers on each hand, should I be on this list anyway?

'Financing the PIC List'
1996\10\01@191250 by TONY NIXON 54964

flavicon
picon face
I wonder if our creative and talented minds can come up with a commercially
viable project and sell it to the lucky public and use the proceeds
to keep this vital link open instead of donating cash.

Tony


Just when I thought I knew it all,
I learned that I didn't.

'The PICLIST Fund'
1996\10\01@215517 by fastfwd

face
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     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Andy Errington <RemoveMEPICLIST@spam@spamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I can't help thinking why Microchip do not fund the mailing list.
> ....
> Microchip, if you are there, give Jory some cash for a pint, and pay
> him to set up a commercial mailing list for you (assuming he wants
> to).

Other Andy:

The number-one rule for the PICLIST Fund is that donations are
COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY.  This can't be stressed enough.

Please don't publicly exhort specific individuals or corporations to
donate; if you feel strongly that they should contribute to the Fund,
it'd be best to contact them privately.

Thanks.

-Andy (not the other one)

Andrew Warren - spamBeGonefastfwdspam_OUTspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This'
1996\10\01@230240 by Louis A. Mamakos

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<c=GB%a=_%p=Lancaster_Univer%l=TakeThisOuTXENU-961001154020Z-2936spam.....xenu.lancs.ac.uk>> Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 23:01:12 -0400
Sender:
KILLspamlouiespamspamTransSys.COM


Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
alien to me in this venue.

I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm involved in, and the
expense is not the problem - it's finding the time to do a good job.  I
know that in my case, at least, money wouldn't fix that problem.

I don't mean to speak out of turn here, especially since I'm just a
"lurker" on this list, but I've never run across this sort of thing
before.

louie

1996\10\02@003831 by Robert Lunn

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face
>Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
>ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
>help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
>alien to me in this venue.

       Times change.

       The venue is no longer academics using University infra-
       structure.

>I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm involved in, and the
>expense is not the problem - it's finding the time to do a good job.  I
>know that in my case, at least, money wouldn't fix that problem.

       The problem is the inadequacy of the hardware platform
       currently being used to host the list (ref AndyW and Jory).

       A solution is desired that doesn't involve reciprocal
       favours (ie no politics).

       Self-sufficiency is proposed.

___Bob

1996\10\02@005531 by Louis A. Mamakos

flavicon
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> >Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
> >ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
> >help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
> >alien to me in this venue.
>
>         Times change.
>
>         The venue is no longer academics using University infra-
>         structure.

Yeah, and the two lists I run now are on my own machine, so what's
the point?  It's not as if a University if required to host a
mailing list.  This stuff is far from rocket science these days.

> >I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm involved in, and the
> >expense is not the problem - it's finding the time to do a good job.  I
> >know that in my case, at least, money wouldn't fix that problem.
>
>         The problem is the inadequacy of the hardware platform
>         currently being used to host the list (ref AndyW and Jory).

If I'm not mistaken, the mailing list is hosted on an IBM mainframe.  It's
just not clear to me what role Jory's machine plays in a simply automated
mailing list facility, and why it's on the critical path.

I understand that the administrators of the host may be unwilling to
continue to host the list, but I was surprised that the perceived solution
was to take up a collection rather than simply ask if anyone else was
willing to host the mailing list.

>         A solution is desired that doesn't involve reciprocal
>         favours (ie no politics).
>
>         Self-sufficiency is proposed.

I would think that someone in the community might be willing to host
the list - that's self-sufficiency.

Again, it strikes me as unusal that the solution is to take up a collection;
that's never happened in any of the discussion groups/mailing lists I've
been involved with in the past.  Usually if the list loses it's "home", a
simple query to the community/membership of the list usually brought
multiple offers out of the woodwork.

Perhaps things have changed.  I'll just go away now.

Louis Mamakos

1996\10\02@024505 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
   ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
   help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
   alien to me in this venue.

Well, things are different now.  In the old days network connections were
expensive and hard to get (DoD contract requried, etc), and so they were
shared by lots of people with lots of free time (read "students".)  And
while links were slow, there was lots more bandwidth than was being used.
Mailing lists were more or less invented at MIT, and then they started
multiplying.  The digest was invented when the traffic on SF-lovers got to
be "too much" due to the release of the first Star Trek film.  Human-Nets;
Info-micro; info-cpm; PD software collections maintained by the army at
White Sands Missile Range on 600Mb drives the size of a washing machine.
Requests would go out for modifications and improvements to OS software and
utilities for the ArpaNet hosts, but time and money were problems that had
already been solved, just to get THAT far.  Sigh.  The good old days.

Now of course, Internet is ubiquitous and cheap.  Anyone can get their own
account, the big machines with extra cycles are replaced by little machines
that are merely turned off, and companies start to worry about things like
exposure and liability.  The iconoclastic counterculture with the ability
will defend archives of near-pornography on free-speech and "annoy big
brother" grounds, and bandwidth-wasting gratuitous graphics on "we CAN do
it, so we MUST" grounds, but a moderately sized mailing list discussing a
somewhat obscure microcontroller has trouble finding a home.

On the bright side, prices are low, and for $100/month or so, you could
HIRE someone to run your mailing list for you.  Figuring out where to
get $100/month, however, is much harder than figuring out where to get
your $100k/year DoD contract...

BillW

1996\10\02@025117 by Robert Lunn

flavicon
face
>snip, snip, blah, blah...
>Again, it strikes me as unusal that the solution is to take up a collection...

       Andy's FAQ seems to cover the points you raise.

___Bob

1996\10\02@033957 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
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     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Louis A. Mamakos <PICLISTTakeThisOuTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Louie:

First, please don't feel that your "lurker" status restricts your
right to voice your opinion on the Fund.  I may not have been clear
enough on this point when it came up a couple of weeks ago, but my
only issue with lurkers (and it's mine personally; it may not be
shared by anyone else) is that I don't think they should try to
change the list CONTENT by simply complaining about it... I'd much
prefer that they steer the list content by actually CONTRIBUTING.

While we're on the subject of list-content, you may have noticed that
each of my replies to publicly-posted questions about the Fund is
headed by a request to "Please send comments/questions about the Fund
to me in PRIVATE e-mail."  I'm not requesting private correspondence
in order to stifle anyone's free speech; my only intent is to avoid
cluttering this list with discussion that's not directly related to
PICs.

Note that I WILL respond publicly to any publicly-posted comments
about the Fund, but please consider sending any comments to me
privately unless you're sure that the 1000 list-members would
benefit from reading them.

Ok... Sorry for digressing.

What you (and, I suspect, other list-members) may not realize is that
we don't "have to" collect funds to support the list.  Jory's been
running the list without any financial support from list-members
since early 1994, and I'm sure that he'd want to continnue running it
even if it started to cost him money as well as his time.

Here's the thing, though:  Recent events have shown that there IS a
limit to what Jory can do with his existing time and equipment, and
-- while the potentially-disastrous "error traffic" problem has been
solved -- it's only going to get worse in the future.

If we can collect some money for Jory -- and remember, we're talking
about a relatively modest amount; we're not going to buy him a
mainframe and a T3 line -- he may be able to avert future crises.

Additionally, he might even add some peripheral services that the
list really needs.  Did you notice the recent discussion regarding
the distribution of large source-code files over the list?  With
enough cash to support an ftp site, he could provide a repository for
those files.

I've been on the list for about two years and I CONTINUALLY see the
same questions asked over and over.  Various people have tried to
deal with this -- Tom Kellett created the PIC FAQ, I put a "PIC
Questions and Answers" page on my company's web site, and lots of
other list members have made code fragments available from their own
web pages -- but the BEST solution would be to have a searchable
archive of the PICLIST available on a PICLIST-specific web page.

As you pointed out, many list-members are in a position to donate
their servers.  In fact, I've already received a number of generous
offers.  Even so, it'd be nice to have some money to support this;
the PICLIST archives are very large and the server owners would
certainly appreciate it if the PICLIST payed for its own disk space.

Also, web-page creation and maintenance is a time-consuming job --
those of you who've sent questions to my company's web page and
haven't yet received an answer already know this -- and it's
unreasonable to assume that Jory's magnanimity extends to performing
this thankless task.  If a PICLIST web-page were created, some of the
money collected by the Fund would probably go to a part-time
Webmaster.

You said, "I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm
involved in, and the expense is not the problem - it's finding the
time to do a good job.  I know that in my case, at least, money
wouldn't fix that problem."

Your premise -- that lack of time is the primary impediment to
running a large list -- is certainly true.  However, your conclusion
may not be so accurate.  Most of a list-owner's time is spent doing
mechanical, repetitive tasks.  Money from the Fund could be used to
hire part-time help, to buy hardware and/or software that might
automate those tasks, or even to make Jory feel better about spending
his own time on them.

As I've been stressing, contributions are COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY, and
there's NO GUARANTEE that Jory will do anything specific with the
money we collect.

Nevertheless, over two dozen PICLIST members (including long-time
contributors, new members, and confirmed lurkers) have already sent
me e-mail announcing their intention to contribute, and the checks
have already started coming in.

They'd all appreciate it if Jory decided to use the money to really
improve the list in the future, but most of those people are
contributing because they want to thank Jory for the work he's
ALREADY done.

Oh, by the way... Please don't send comments about the Fund to Jory;
he really has nothing to do with it and he's busy enough already.

If it makes a difference to anyone, you should know that Jory never
asked for any money; the Fund was entirely my idea.  If you have
problems with the concept of collecting vountary contributions for
Jory, PLEASE direct them to me in private e-mail; Jory's the kind of
guy who'd want to reply to any e-mails that he received, and I'm sure
that the last thing any of us want to do is to take up more of his
time.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - EraseMEfastfwd@spam@spamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'Financing the PIC List'
1996\10\02@040241 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
TONY NIXON 54964 <PICLISTspamBeGonespamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I wonder if our creative and talented minds can come up with a
> commercially viable project and sell it to the lucky public and use
> the proceeds to keep this vital link open instead of donating cash.

Tony:

It's already been suggested that we could put the list archives on
CD-ROM and sell them at some reasonable price.  For a number of
reasons, I'm not so sure that this is a good idea, but it's
certainly something that could be voted on by the list-members.

As you know, I personally feel that the best way to bore and
frustrate the members of a mailing list is to fill the list with
discussions ABOUT the list.  Rather than opening up the PICLIST to
discussions about the pros and cons of any revenue-producing idea,
therefore, I humbly suggest that someone with good web-forms
processing software might set up a web-based survey form.  I guess
we'd just have to trust each other not to "stuff the ballot box",
but it would at least be a start.

I suppose we should wait a little while for other ideas to be
suggested, then put all the ideas on the survey form and tell the
list-members where to find it.

So... Who wants to volunteer to set up this survey?

-Andy

Andrew Warren - .....fastfwdKILLspamspamRemoveMEix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This'
1996\10\02@091214 by Christopher Zguris

picon face
At 11:43 PM 10/1/96 PDT, you wrote:
>    Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
>    ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
>    help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
>    alien to me in this venue.
>
[SNIP]
>On the bright side, prices are low, and for $100/month or so, you could
>HIRE someone to run your mailing list for you.  Figuring out where to
>get $100/month, however, is much harder than figuring out where to get
>your $100k/year DoD contract...
>
>BillW
>

I have a mailing list running from world.std.com . It costs $5/month for the
account, and $5/month for the list. The admin nonsense is forwarded to this
account, and it works fine (for $20, you also get a web page). For $20/month
a shell account at Netcom (nationwide) gives the account owner up to 5 lists
for free. If _I_ can find a listprovider in NYC (where _nobody_ wants to run
one), it shouldn't be any big deal to find a provider elsewhere (or try
world.std.com - geographic location isn't really important. Telnet in, set
the .forward address, and done).

Chris

   ======================================================================
         Christopher Zguris  -  EraseMEczguris.....spam@spam@interport.net  -  Uhhh, Ear?
                 1991 Honda VFR (Red, with red accessories)
          AMA, HSTA, CRVBMWR, HRCA, IVFROC, ex-Big Apple Vegetarian

                 I have known since I was very young that my
               purpose in life was to be Miss America. I have
                 lived my entire life with that idea in mind.
                   - Tara Dawn Holland, Miss America 1996
   ======================================================================

'PICLIST Digest - 29 Sep 1996 to 30 Sep 1996'
1996\10\02@094736 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 10:22 PM 9/30/96 -0700, you wrote:
>I need to program 16C5X parts with assembly code that was assembled
>using the old PICALC assembler which output .OBJ files and was
>formatted as INHX16.  This was ok when I was using the older PICPRO II
>programmer but now I am using the PROMATE II which only recognizes
>INHX8M format and .HEX files.  Is there a way to convert the INHX16/OBJ
>files to INHX8M/HEX files?  Any help would be appreciated.
>
Bill,

I strongly suggest you reassemble with MPASM if at all possible.
Failing that, if you are really stuck, I could rework my programmer
code to do the conversion for you if you really need it.

Let me know if you still need help.

Jim

'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This'
1996\10\02@122642 by Chuck McManis

flavicon
face
Sorry if this is off topic, so what is "adequate infrastructure" ? Is it a
pentium
class machine running FreeBSD or Linux ? (about $800 here in the Silicon
Valley) Presumably bandwidth is an issue. I've heard the number "over 1000
subscribers." Looking at the mail volume clearly an ISDN class system would
be adequate, possibly even a 33.6Kb line.

What exactly is needed in terms of hardware and connectivity to adequately
support the PIC list? What sort of access does Jory need to the system?
(root? user? other?)

--Chuck

1996\10\02@141600 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Chuck McManis <PICLISTRemoveMEspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Chuck:

I understand your (and others') interest in trying to work out
precise technical solutions to the list's problems -- we're all
engineers, after all -- but I'm afraid that we're getting a little
sidetracked here.

The Fund has just started; I don't think it makes sense to speculate
about what the money'll be spent on until we at least know
approximately how much money there'll be.  I know that everyone here
wants to help out with specific suggestions, but Jory probably won't
be thinking seriously about all this for at least another month or
so.

I hate to keep repeating this, but in order to avoid any potential
misunderstandings and arguments later, I have to:

The money collected by the Fund will be donated to Jory to use as he
pleases... There's no guarantee (although there's a strong
expectation) that he'll even spend it on the PICLIST at all.  None of
the people who've already contributed has a problem with this, but
anyone who DOES shouldn't donate.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - spam_OUTfastfwdspam_OUTspam.....ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\10\02@182726 by Bernie Gordon

flavicon
face
At 12:54 AM 10/2/96 -0400, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

You might as well discontinue the list instead of begging.

1996\10\03@023956 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

flavicon
face
Chuck McManis <spamcmcmanisEraseMEspam.....FREEGATE.NET> wrote:

> Sorry if this is off topic, so what is "adequate infrastructure" ? Is it a

Quite frankly, the notion of setting up a system solely to handle
the PICLIST is silly. The resources needed would barely
be noticed by even a very small Internet host. Disk space is
probably the most significant resource used (for archiving messages
etc.). Bandwidth is not an issue, with proper configuration, a 28.8K
link would be good up to about 5000 subscribers.

Having said that, I support the Fund idea, if only to reward Jory for his
work. But I see no reason why the continued operation of the list should
not depend on the kindness of strangers. There are plenty of people around
willing to make available spare resources - the hardest part will always
be getting one or more people to contribute their time to the administration
tasks.

At this point in time the most important thing to do is make a clear
statement that we want the list to continue - exactly how this will
happen can evolve over time. There's no major crisis right now - just
a few little ones.


--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs       | HI-TECH Software,       | Voice: +61 7 3354 2411
clyde.....spam@spam@hitech.com.au      | P.O. Box 103, Alderley, | Fax:   +61 7 3354 2422
http://www.hitech.com.au | QLD, 4051, AUSTRALIA.   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
For info on the World's best C cross compilers for embedded systems, point
your WWW browser at http://www.hitech.com.au, or email infospamhitech.com.au

'PICLIST Digest - 29 Sep 1996 to 30 Sep 1996'
1996\10\03@114625 by David Tait

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face
Further to my message about using MPSIM as a hex file converter.
MPSIM will not load a hex file unless it has .HEX as its extension
so you'll need to rename FILE.OBJ to FILE.HEX before MPSIM will
look at it.

David
--
STOPspamdavid.taitspam_OUTspamRemoveMEman.ac.uk
http://www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj

1996\10\03@114840 by David Tait

flavicon
face
Bill Bau aksed:

> Is there a way to convert the INHX16/OBJ
> files to INHX8M/HEX files?  Any help would be appreciated.

MPSIM can be used as a format converter because it loads INHX16 files
automatically and saves in INHX8M by default.  Use "lo" to load your
file and "o" to save the new file.  MPSIM will probably complain about
the lack of supporting files (.COD and .LST) but it will load the hex
file anyway.

I have written a set of utilities for PIC16C84 hex files and they
might help you if you wanted to make your own conversion tool.  The
utilities come with source and a short tutorial on the difference
between INHX16 and INHX8M:

www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/files/pichex01.zip
or
ftp://ftp.mcc.ac.uk/pub/micro-controllers/PIC/pichex01.zip

David
--
david.taitKILLspamspamman.ac.uk

'Financing the PIC List'
1996\10\03@121734 by Scott Stephens

picon face
At 08:53 AM 10/2/96 GMT+1100, you wrote:
>I wonder if our creative and talented minds can come up with a commercially
> viable project and sell it to the lucky public and use the proceeds
>to keep this vital link open instead of donating cash.
>
>Tony

What a great idea! Donate hardware & software designs, PCB's, components and
cables, for the programmer, others could caugh up $19.95 or whatever for the
PIC programmer. Everyone pays, everyone gets a great deal (exept for those
making a selling programmers already).

'The PICLIST Fund'
1996\10\03@161745 by Cobus deBeer

flavicon
face
     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Andy Errington <