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PICList Thread
'*** List renaming to PicList ***'
1995\01\15@011004 by crocontroller discussion list

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face
Dear Subscriber to the PIC discussion list--

As a result of MIT's coordination of previously separate computing systems,
it has become necessary to rename this discussion list.  Beginning with
Tuesday 17 January 1995, please use the name PICLIST in place of PIC for all
commands to and communication with this list.  We shall try to insure that
messages specifying the former name, during a suitable grace period, will
receive a notice of the name change.

We regret that we have found such a change necessary for the benefit of our
local clients, but trust that it should not cause any great disruption for
you.  Please let us know immediately if it does not behave properly for you.

Art Anger, Postmaster@MITVMA

'Is PICLIST OK?'
1995\01\31@095908 by John S. Kallend

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I sent a message to PICLIST last week, and it prompted an automated
response as if i had sent it to LISTSERV (that is, each line was
treated as a LISTSERV command). I also stopped receiving PIC mail
about the same time.

jk

1995\01\31@103526 by Derrick Early

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picon face
> I sent a message to PICLIST last week, and it prompted an automated
> response as if i had sent it to LISTSERV (that is, each line was
> treated as a LISTSERV command). I also stopped receiving PIC mail
> about the same time.

Yep, I had the same experience.

Yours,

Derrick Early
spam_OUTearlyTakeThisOuTspamfinite.nrl.navy.mil

1995\01\31@125554 by tom

flavicon
picon face
> I sent a message to PICLIST last week, and it prompted an automated
> response as if i had sent it to LISTSERV (that is, each line was
> treated as a LISTSERV command). I also stopped receiving PIC mail
> about the same time.

I hate doing this but,  ME TOO !

Did anyone see my ramblings about the FAQ ?
__
  TAK


'Hello PicList!'
1995\02\02@151132 by igel Cartwright
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face
       Seeing as everyone seems to be saying hello...
       My name is Nigel Cartwright, and I live and work near Birmingham,
England. (Are there any PIC users nearby?...). I run a small industrial
model making company and use PICs for timing etc in dispalys and models, as
well as on the hobby side at home - mainly interfaces to Macs etc.

       Regards



<===========Nigel Cartwright===========>
<==== .....n.cartwrightKILLspamspam@spam@auntie.bbcnc.org.uk ====>

'Is PICLIST hearing _me_ ???'
1995\02\03@005007 by tom

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picon face
Before total paranoia sets in, Is anyone receiving my postings to the list ?
I've tried twice to ask questions about the FAQ and received NO replies via the
list.
Am I "getting out" ? (or in, depending on your POV )

--
       Tom (the FAQ is ready) Kellett.

1995\02\04@202012 by tom

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picon face
Thanks to all who replied to sooth my fevered brow.

The PIC FAQ is being posted to the list, even as I type.

The consensus is to stay with ascii at present.

Your mission, (should you choose to accept), is to proof-read, fact-check and
generally pick holes in it.
You have until midnight [GMT] on monday 6th Feb to report.
[short time-scale I know but the list hiccough threw me off track]
__
  TAK

'Advertisements on the PICLIST'
1995\02\04@234153 by jory bell

face
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Andrew Warren sent me email asking:

>Was I out of line sending that message about Lance Walley's "Surplus.txt
>as promised" message?  Please clarify the list's policy regarding this
>type of "SALE!!  THIS MONTH ONLY!!!" advertising.

I responded as follows:

{Quote hidden}

1995\02\05@005442 by Brian Lane

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On Sat, 4 Feb 1995, jory bell wrote:

> Andrew Warren sent me email asking:
>
> >Was I out of line sending that message about Lance Walley's "Surplus.txt
> >as promised" message?  Please clarify the list's policy regarding this
> >type of "SALE!!  THIS MONTH ONLY!!!" advertising.
>

  [chop... chop....]

 Well I guess I'll wade in here. First an introduction. I am currently
employed as a microprocessor programmer for a consultant in Washington
State, up near Mt. Rainier. We mostly do controllers for Ship to Shore HF
radios, and handheld VHF radios using Motorola 68HCxx parts. I use PICs
in my home projects(built a distinctive ring switcher). I am also working
on a B.S. EET degree at the local community college, and preparing to set
up a limited Internet Provider/BBS with my Linux box.

OK, as to commercialism on the list I think it has a place when it is
in response to someone's question. BUT just posting announcements of
commercial products 'Really Bugs Me' I personally don't use any of
Parallax's products, and am not interested in them. I see their ads in
CCI and I believe that's all the exposure I want.

If Lance got requests for information from list subscribers, he should
be emailing them directly instead of thru the list. In my opinion the
list should be for the discussion of the technical aspects of using the
PIC processors, not as a target for marketing types(not that I am
accusing Lance of 'targeting' the list).

    Brian

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Everyone is a prisoner holding their own key." | Chaos Labs (360)569-2911
 http://nyx10.cs.du.edu:8001/~blane/home.html   |   Electronics/uP files
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1995\02\05@090701 by tom

flavicon
picon face
Brian Lane <blanespamKILLspamnyx10.cs.du.edu> Wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Feb 1995, jory bell wrote:
> > Andrew Warren sent me email asking:
> >
> > >Was I out of line sending that message about Lance Walley's "Surplus.txt
> > >as promised" message?  Please clarify the list's policy regarding this
> > >type of "SALE!!  THIS MONTH ONLY!!!" advertising.
> >
>
>    [chop... chop....]
>
>Hack<

>  If Lance got requests for information from list subscribers, he should
> be emailing them directly instead of thru the list.

I hold no brief for Lance, but in fairness it looked like a cock-up to me.:)

The list-address was left in by accident ?

> In my opinion the list should be for the discussion of the technical aspects
> of using the PIC processors, not as a target for marketing types(not that I
> am accusing Lance of 'targeting' the list).
Fine dividing line to tread here IMO.

I'll wait to see Lance's grovelling apology :) :) :)
__
  TAK

1995\02\05@094507 by Timothy McDonough DIAL UP1

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FWIW, I think the message in question from Lance should have been to the
effect that they had decided to have a sale on the discontinued tools and
people should ftp the file from Parallax if interested.

Posting it only once would have been good too, although I suspect the
multiple posts were a technical glitch and not intentional.

Tim McDonough -- .....timmedKILLspamspam.....cencom.net

On Sat, 4 Feb 1995, jory bell wrote:

> Andrew Warren sent me email asking:
>
> >Was I out of line sending that message about Lance Walley's "Surplus.txt
> >as promised" message?  Please clarify the list's policy regarding this
> >type of "SALE!!  THIS MONTH ONLY!!!" advertising.
>
[snip]

> >
> >Were you around when Lance first came on the list a couple months ago? He
> >posted some (in my opinion) spam, and I called him on it in an exchange
> >posted to the list (which I would be happy to forward to you). He promptly
> >apologized for his possible misdeeds, but many members of the list were
> >fairly supportive of his posting and a relatively high degree of general
> >commercialism (much to my chagrin).

1995\02\06@082809 by Ran Talbott

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>FWIW, I think the message in question from Lance should have been to the
>effect that they had decided to have a sale on the discontinued tools and
>people should ftp the file from Parallax if interested.

I agree.  Tim's comments are along the lines of the ones I made a while back
on sci.electronics when someone from National Semi was asking how vendors
should use the net.  The philosophy I suggested then was to broadcast only
"invitations to contact" (e.g.,  announcements of WWW or ftp site openings),
not the information itself.

In addition to Tim's recommendation,  I'd suggest three other criteria for
"commercial" postings to the list:

  1. That they be *directly* PIC-related.  I.e.,  it's okay to annouce a new
     PIC cross-assembler,  but not a "hot deal" on hard disks on the grounds
     that "PIC developers use machines with hard disks for compiling".
  2. That the info not be readily-available in the press.  E.g.,  Parallax
     announcing a sale on surplus equipment would be okay,  but not
     using the list to advertise their "hobbyist special" programmer,
     because that's part of their regular advertising.
  3. The information has to be "incomplete":  no snail mail addresses,
     no phone numbers,  no exact prices.  That would tend to (though not
     always,  of course) require email contact to make any sales,  which
     would discourage people from trying to use the list as an ad medium.

I think this makes a fairly good compromise that benefits all concerned,
while minimizing annoyance and noise.

Ran

'PICLIST Digest - 20 Feb 1995 to 21 Feb 1995'
1995\02\23@162527 by Christer Johansson

picon face
>Does anyone know if the STAMP list has died or moved during the last couple
>of months? I haven't reveived anything this year. I have PIC's & some
>STAMPS & would like to keep current on both.
>
>Regards,
>
>Dave

I haven't received anything but I think the STAMP list is alive even
if the mail volume isn't like on this list :-)...

/Christer

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
* Christer Johansson --  HTH  -- * email: EraseMEcjspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTaristotle.algonet.se *
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
   >> World Wide Web: http://www.algonet.se/~cj/homepage.html <<
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-


'Re[2]: PICLIST Digest - 15 May 1995 to 16 May 1995'
1995\05\18@134421 by tnguyen
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    >I'll second (or third?) that. There are a few hundred million of us
    >here in Asia that can't get onto your BBS as it would cost far too
    >much, but we can get onto Internet for US$120/year. I would be very
    >interested in some method of gaining more information on your
    >products, so some sort of Internet link or archive for your BBS
    >postings would be very helpful.

    >(I can't get to your BBS via Compuserve either for you eagle-eyed

    Hi, folks, I am the Microchip BBS Sysop, and I have been following
    this thread about Internet and BBS for some time.  Let me add a few
    comments here:

    1. Many of you may not be aware of it, but the Microchip Boston Sales
    office does sponsor a Microchip Web and ftp site.

    The Web site is: http://www.ultranet.com/microchip
    and ftp site is: ftp.ultranet.com/microchip.

    You should be able to get latest Development software (like MPASM,
    MPSIM, etc.) from these sites.

    2. The term COMPUSERVE connotes an impression that Microchip customers
    must belong to the Compuserve Information Service (CIS) membership to
    participate in the Microchip BBS. It ain't so!  Compuserve, in order
    to support its CIS customers, installs a global network and offers to
    make it available for lease, not unlike AT&T offering its
    long-distance service.  Most Microchip customers, especially overseas
    like Europe and Asia, should be able to take advantage of this global
    network and dial into Microchip BBS with a local phone call.  The
    connection procedure for overseas varies with geographical areas.  If
    you have problem, send me an e-mail and I'll see if I can help you
    out.  Remember: you don't need Compuserve membership to participate in
    the Microchip BBS.

    Since H&R Block, America's biggest tax preparation firm, owns
    Compuserve, maybe we should suggest they change the name to H&R Block
    network to eliminate the confusion :-)

    3. You want internet connection, and we hear you!! :-)

    Thang Nguyen               tnguyenspamspam_OUTmicrochip.com

1995\05\19@062807 by Adrian Godwin

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Thang Nguyen <@spam@tnguyenKILLspamspammicrochip.com> writes :

>      1. Many of you may not be aware of it, but the Microchip Boston Sales
>      office does sponsor a Microchip Web and ftp site.
>
>      The Web site is: http://www.ultranet.com/microchip
>      and ftp site is: ftp.ultranet.com/microchip.

Yes, I've looked there (I think it's ftp.ultranet.com/biz/mchip) -
unfortunately, updating the site doesn't seem to be a high priority at
the moment : the pointers to device info sheets on the web page don't
work, and the application notes in the ftp directories are incomplete
(I think the popular AN589 is still missing).

This could just reflect the state of the BBS - I haven't checked these
files on there - but I get the impression that the BBS is kept rather
more current.

On the BBS, there's an improvement that could probably be made quite
easily : the implementation of Kermit that's in use seems to be the
old-fashioned one often included in BBS file transfer suites. It's
way out of date by current standards, and upgrading to a modern version
would improve transfer speeds considerably while losing none of the
reliability for which Kermit is famous. Kermit 3.14 includes a
'kermit lite' version especially configured to provide only the functions
needed for a BBS external protocol while minimising memory usage.

>
>      3. You want internet connection, and we hear you!! :-)
>

Thank you !

-adrian

'PICLIST Digest - 17 May 1995 to 18 May 1995'
1995\05\19@132351 by David Baker

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face
> > I'm developing a consumer product that needs to sense the status of the
> > phone line, I.E. determine - ring, offhook, onhook.
> >
> > Anyone have a low cost solution?
> >
>
> Do you plan to get it FCC part-68 certified and do you know how
> much that certification cost? I am also planning to build a device
> to interface to the phone lines and was wondering about all the
> legalities in doing so. If anyone knows any specifics about the
> requirements, we would like to know.

Yes, we would like to know. So far I have imported 2 telephone monitors
using PIC chips from the USA to Malaysia and tried to get them
type-approved. Both of them have failed. This is a big problem because I
have friends that want similar units but I can't legally import them in
quantities if they fail the tests. Therefore I am trying to make my own &
would like to conform to International standards.

Dave

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - KILLspamdavidKILLspamspambaker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - RemoveMEdavidTakeThisOuTspamgmetra.po.my |
|                          |  Fax                  - 60-3-2612870       |
|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


'Your removal from the PICLIST list'
1995\08\02@150613 by Jory Bell prichard
face
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Lee (et al),

Lee: you are welcome to resubscribe to the piclist.

Your removal was accidental, although (inadvertently) related to your
(imo) unpleasant posting concerning the most recent spammage on the piclist.

I just completed a mass deletion of ~30 problemmatic addresses (bounces, &c).
These were compiled from a list of bounce messages I had stored
in a particular mailbox of piclist administrative matters.

Your email was in with these, as I was intending to write to you
with my opinions concerning the appropriateness of commercial spam
products being posted to the piclist (or commercial posts at all) and
your defense of aforementioned messages.

You are correct in that we must "cope" with greed-inspired commercial
spammage which besets virtually all forms of communication. However,
this coping does not have to be the passive acceptance of whatever
is foisted upon us. I am personally in favor of aggressive measures
to keep spammage and blatant commercialism off the piclist, while
accomodating responsible postings from organisations with something
relevant to the list topic (such as useful information from Microchip,
Parallax, etc).

At times, there are judgements calls to be made as to the appropriateness
of a particular post. I encourage those in doubt about a particular email
they wish to send to consult with me. However, this A-bomb scammer/spammer
and his drivel crearly fall outside of the realm of pic-related material
(commercial or otherwise). It clearly has no place on the piclist.

I hope soon to be able to restrict list postings to members of the list.
This will allow us to avoid the random spam, and to avoid even more
determined spam-efforts, by having the list subscription process entail
an agreement to certain reasonable terms of posting, etc (see my previous
spam warnings). Until that time, I send nasty email to every spammer, as
well as their service provider (and their provider's provider), and those
listed by the nic as responsible for the domain name used, etc. I also
forward all spammage info to various blacklists, etc.

[unmount soapbox]

-jory bell

{Quote hidden}

1995\08\02@174314 by Jory Bell prichard

face
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face
Rereading what I wrote, I realised it might not be clear that I had
accidentally unsubscribed Lee, as his mail was mixed in with admin
deletions. I had intended to just send him a note, but accidentally
added him to the list of bad addresses. Hope that's clear.

I have never removed a user due to content, and hopefully never will.

-jory bell

:Your email was in with these, as I was intending to write to you
:with my opinions concerning the appropriateness of commercial spam
:products being posted to the piclist (or commercial posts at all) and
:your defense of aforementioned messages.

'Relies to PICLIST'
1995\08\25@024645 by nino.benci

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picon face
Excuse the following, just random thoughts.

When replying to posts, unless they are of true value to the members
of the PICLIST please ensure that you reply to the original poster. I
find it ammusing that threads run for days (even weeks occasionally)
and that after the nth (n being >4 generally) reply the thread
nolonger has any relevance to the original question. This would
reduce the nuisance of sifting through 20-40 items every two days
roughly. Is this reasonable. If you think that this is not reasonable,
please relpy directly to me and NOT THE LIST.

Nino
Benci************************************************************************
* Antonio (Nino) Benci                       *                         *
* Chief Technical Officer                    *                         *
* Monash University - Dept of Physics        *         I think         *
* Wellington Rd, Clayton. 3168               *      Therefore I am     *
* Victoria, Australia.                       *          I eat          *
* TEL - 61 3 9905 3649, FAX - 61 3 9905 3637 *   Therefore I excrete   *
* EMAIL - TakeThisOuTnino.benciEraseMEspamspam_OUTsci.monash.edu.au       *                         *
************************************************************************

'PICLIST Digest - 27 Aug 1995 to 28 Aug 1995'
1995\08\30@150001 by Gene Silvernail

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face
>
>Date:    Mon, 28 Aug 1995 21:25:00 EET
>From:    Norman Fick <RemoveMEnfickspamTakeThisOuTAZTEC.CO.ZA>
>Subject: Trig Functions on PIC16C74
>
>I need to do a SIN and COS function on the 16C74. Does anyone know about a
>routine out there (I don't feel up to re-inventing the wheel!!).
>
>A question for you guys who know-it-all. What are the
>dissadvantages/advantages of using a PIC (in general) as opposed to using
>the Motorola HC11 mcu. I am quite familiar with the PIC's, but have heard
>many good reports about the HC11's. (Please try to be unbiased in your
>answer :-) )
>
>Thanks a stack
>
>Norman
>
Norman,

Ditto for all the others comments.

The major gripe I've got against the pic parts is the fact that MicroChip
has not provided any
thing to compare to the HC11 in regards of direct access secondary storage
memory, with the
exception of the 17Cxx.

The Pic 74 series has the ability to go up against the HC11 in many areas
with one major problem. Where do you store
transient data. 192 bytes of RAM space forget it, in a moderate design a
large percentage of it is
taken up by the application. Don't by into Microchips endurance sales pitch
on their EEPROM as a
replacement for RAM. Tt will not work in situations that require moderate
Read/Write/Read cycle counts.

It amazes me that a company that has made the big boys at Motorola come out
with the 99 dollar
development system for the HC05 and a whack at winning a Jeep to boot,
doesn't get more serious about going
after their big dog the HC11.

Ability wise, the PICs with the exception of the 17Cxx, is closer to an HC05
then a HC11.
The PICS do scream compared to the HC11/HC05 but with limited lung capacity.

Gene P. Silvernail
Belhaven applied Technology


'piclist digest'
1995\09\07@081619 by Siegfried Grob
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face
Hello to all who want to archive all the piclist traffic themselves:

Here I quote a part of the mail, every new subscriber gets after successful
subscription to the piclist:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

...

Please  save this  message  for future  reference, especially  if  you are  not
familiar with LISTSERV. This might look like  a waste of disk space now, but in
6 months you will be glad you  saved this information when you realize that you
cannot  remember what  are the  lists you  are subscribed  to, or  what is  the
command to  leave the list to  avoid filling up  your mailbox while you  are on
vacations.

...

Contributions sent to this list are  automatically archived. You can get a list
of  the available  archive  files  by sending  an  "INDEX  PICLIST" command  to
LISTSERVEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.BITNET (or  EraseMELISTSERVspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU). You can then  order these
files with a "GET PICLIST LOGxxxx" command, or using LISTSERV's database search
facilities. Send an "INFO DATABASE" command for more information on the latter.

...

More information  on LISTSERV commands can  be found in the  LISTSERV reference
card,  which  you  can  retrieve  by  sending  an  "INFO  REFCARD"  command  to
RemoveMELISTSERVEraseMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.BITNET (or RemoveMELISTSERVspam_OUTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
to summarize:
send GET PICLIST LOG9509 to RemoveMELISTSERVTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU, wait some seconds and you
have what you want.

Siggi

'subscribe piclist'
1995\09\08@040259 by nigelg

flavicon
picon face
subscribe piclist



         /----------------------------------------------------------\
         | Nigel Goodwin   | Internet : EraseMEnigelgspamspamspamBeGonelpilsley.demon.co.uk |
         | Lower Pilsley   |                                        |
         | Chesterfield    |                                        |
         | England         |                                        |
         \----------------------------------------------------------/


'PICLIST Digest - 29 Sep 1995 to 30 Sep 1995'
1995\10\02@193557 by ES Administrator
flavicon
face
At 12:04 AM 10/1/95 -0400, you wrote:
>There are 9 messages totalling 1665 lines in this issue.
>
>Topics of the day:
>  6. ===> List of over 1,500 USA magazine subscription titles / Get one *FREE*

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Please note that there has never been a user RemoveMEpatricia.loringKILLspamspames.co.nz (and
there never will be). Any mail sent to that address will bounce.

I believe that the message originated from a user of ixc.ixc.net. The
postmster there has been queried regarding this matter but as yet I have
recieved no reply.
- From a helpful user :
>This person is Kevin Jay Lipsitz (PO Box 120990, Staten Island NY
>10312-0990, according to his whois.  Good luck proving it, though, or
>extracting any money out of him.  He's been at this for years, screwing
>over site after site. You won't get any response from ixc.net, incidentally
>-- they will give an account to anyone, for free, and don't really care
>about the consequences. Same for freenet.fsu.edu, one of his other haunts.

I would like to find this person and make them pay for the all the mail
we've recieved about this (after 2 days - 16 megabytes and still climbing).
In New Zealand we have to pay for every byte of traffic on our system (both
incoming and outgoing).

Thanks for taking the time to send your message but please be assured that
it wasn't posted from our system or by one of our users.

PS: I'd like to thank those (few) people who didn't send me the whole
original message. I'd also like to thank the people who sent me their SMTP
logs so I could have some proof that the message didn't originate from
es.co.nz. To the people who decided that I'd really like a copy of their
core dumps, what I'd like to say to you, isn't printable.

Nick Kean,
Efficient Software Network Manager.
PGP available by fingering nick.keanSTOPspamspamspam_OUTes.co.nz

PS: Yes, this is a form letter (well most of it anyway). No, you don't have
to reply to it (unless you really want to.)

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2

iQCVAwUBMHBe4dBGoYLL3vnpAQED2gP/XsCmksoSnbVl6J8pOSY2gPQejbjDs0ds
d/jaDxMrHDHt9hrW1klxo80r8K6v4JFEqExLAm3AQedxbLut0aKuDUfe/sfZeZd5
cNYJ1sF2C3KTtXCM1WY/NuMMx5M5145uHCy3BJwiU0JNOJRlrP+k/R7OYVOBEOMX
r3c40RizejE=
=NoCr
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

--
Efficient Software Admin.
spamBeGoneadminSTOPspamspamEraseMEes.co.nz

'PICLIST Digest - 6 Oct 1995 to 7 Oct 1995'
1995\10\08@100421 by David Baker

flavicon
face
On Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:00:48 -0400, "Automatic digest processor" <LISTSERV@MITVMA
.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Date:    Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:24:56 -0500
> From:    "Samantha Jerrings, President, International Students Association,
>          Eastern Division" <KILLspamabacusspamBeGonespamABACUS.NET>
> Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popular USA Titles

Is anything being done to find a way to stop this spamming? A new list
server perhaps or some screening method? I subscribe to a few mailing lists
& this is the only one that seems troubled by this same posting every week.
It's getting rather annoying & taking up a good chunk of my expensive
download time allocation.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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1995\10\08@105519 by Stuart Allman

flavicon
face
At 06:34 PM 10/8/95 MYT, you wrote:
>On Sun, 8 Oct 1995 00:00:48 -0400, "Automatic digest processor"
<LISTSERV@MITVMA
> .MIT.EDU> wrote:
>
>> Date:    Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:24:56 -0500
>> From:    "Samantha Jerrings, President, International Students Association,
>>          Eastern Division" <spamBeGoneabacusspamKILLspamABACUS.NET>
>> Subject: ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popular USA
Titles
>
>Is anything being done to find a way to stop this spamming? A new list
>server perhaps or some screening method? I subscribe to a few mailing lists
>& this is the only one that seems troubled by this same posting every week.
>It's getting rather annoying & taking up a good chunk of my expensive
>download time allocation.
>
>Dave
>--

I agree with Dave.  Could the group moderator please e-mail this woman and
tell her that we don't want her advertisements?  I don't want to read about
magazine subscriptions in a PIC newsgroup.  I'm guessing if I do it
personally, I'll just have the ads start coming directly to my mail.

Stuart Allman
.....studiospam_OUTspamhalcyon.com

'PICLIST Digest - 7 Oct 1995 to 8 Oct 1995'
1995\10\09@104625 by David Baker

flavicon
face
On Mon, 9 Oct 1995 00:00:30 -0400, "Automatic digest processor" <LISTSERV@MITVMA
.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> >> Content-transfer-encoding: base64
>
> > Uh, how about posting in a format that is useable?
>
> Base64 is emminently useable, portable, and standardized.  The SMTP
> protocol specifically limits itself to 7-bit ASCII data (see RFC 821).
> Without prior negotiation and agreement, the transfer of 8-bit binary
> data is prohibit.  If forced, it will cause interoperability problems.

Is there any need to send 8 bit data? This is a mailing list. We don't need
fancy fonts & flashing text, etc. I subscribe to this list as a digest &
there is no way I am going to cut & paste all this base64 stuff just so I
can have nice fonts added to a text message which has already been posted
in ASCII anyway.

BASE64 has it's place - sending binary files, not adding pretty bits to a
newslist. I have to pay a lot of money for my Internet connection from
Malaysia, so I am all for the smallest amount of data required to get the
information across. I am working in DOS & see no need for Windows to read
messages on this list. We are pic programmers aren't we? All trying to get
the tightest code into our limited resources? No need to bloat the code
with fancy trimmings :-)

Anyway, compared to the mass spamming by this magazine company, the base64
problem is very minor - I hope the list owner can get this sorted out, or I
am going to have to sit on the sidelines until then -  I can't afford to
download megabytes of junk every day.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'PICLIST Digest - 9 Oct 1995 to 10 Oct 1995 - Speci'
1995\10\11@053104 by David Baker

flavicon
face
On Tue, 10 Oct 1995 13:22:46 -0400, "Automatic digest processor" <LISTSERV@MITVM
A.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> There are 4 messages totalling 12627 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics in this special issue:
>
>   1. 16C84 bulk erase problems
>   2. Look Up Table
>   3. Memory Pages
>   4. ===>> FREE 1 yr. Magazine Sub sent worldwide- 300+ Popular USA

Terrific,

12500 lines of crap & 167 lines of useful information. Who was the person
on this list who said to just ignore them?

I will have to leave this list if this is not resolved in the next couple
of days. I would like to come back if/when this spammer is locked out &
well-meaning people decide to spam him back but do it to the list instead.

Is anyone that is planning on staying willing to start up a list of people
who would come back when this issue is reolved? We could get emailed when
the list is safe to return to.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - .....davidspamRemoveMEbaker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - RemoveMEdavidspamspamBeGonegmetra.po.my |
|                          |  Fax                  - 60-3-2612870       |
|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'PICLIST Digest - 15 Oct 1995 to 16 Oct 1995'
1995\10\17@100539 by David Baker

flavicon
face
> From:    "Patrick S. Coutu" <spamBeGoneC82032476@spam@spamspam_OUTACS.SAULTC.ON.CA>
> Subject: Which PIC for basic remote radio freq. car starter?
>
>           Hi PIC'ers,
>          I'm planning to build a remote control car starter. I own a
>          PIC16c54 and would like to know if anyone would attempt this
>          project with this particular PIC. Also what parts do I need
>          for the transmitter-receiver portion of it?

I brought up this same subject a week or 2 ago. In fact I saw the insides
of a car remote control for door locking & it had a PIC 16C54 in it, along
with very little else. I thought this would be a great project, so I asked
here - I had several good answers, but surprisingly (for a PIC list) nobody
recommended to do it with PICs! The circuit looked very simple, but I
couldn't get one from anyone. Holtek make some txmitters & receivers which
will do the job & they are quite cheap. Digikey has them in their online
catalog at their WWW site & they will mail to Malaysia, so I'm sure Canada
would be no problem. I plan to order mine very soon.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - TakeThisOuTdavidspamspambaker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - davidEraseMEspamgmetra.po.my |
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|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

1995\10\17@160508 by Patrick S. Coutu

flavicon
face
          Thanks Dave,
                   ..for your reply on my car starter project.
                             Patrick in Sault, Canada

'PICLIST Digest - 16 Oct 1995 to 17 Oct 1995'
1995\10\18@070121 by MORBIUS

flavicon
face
Could someone tell me where I could find the schematics for a 16C57
PIC Programmer?  I don't want to buy one, I would like to build it
myself.  Thanks in advance.

Chris Hecker


'piclist signoff'
1995\11\04@130556 by Jack Davis
flavicon
face
Can someone offer a suggestion on getting disconnected from the list?

Nothing seems to work.

Thanks, Jack

1995\11\04@132711 by Eric Brewer

flavicon
face
>Can someone offer a suggestion on getting disconnected from the list?
>
>Nothing seems to work.
>
>Thanks, Jack
Send the following message to RemoveMElistservEraseMEspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu:

signoff piclist

Hope it helps,
eric

'[PICLIST] Sensing RC receiver impulses & PWM motor'
1995\11\07@091938 by Valehrach Roman

flavicon
face
Hi to all PICers out there!

In an attempt to reduce the amount of 'reinfented wheels' (esp. my own's)
I'm looking for some code (preferable with application notes for the circuits)
concering radio control and motor control - preferable with PICs (but no
exlusive):

1. Decoding the servo impulse/s from a RC receiver:
  * preferable a 'self learning' application
  * determination of multiple levels of modulation (centre, and max. would
    certainly be of help for the beginning)
  * 'fail save'-state whilste there is a signal loss/no signal

2. Controlling of a model motor (car/aeroplane):
  * multiple steps of speed/fine control of revolutions
    preferably PWM (pulse width modulation) with a high frequenzy
  * acceleration/deceleration slope (programable)
  * high currents of 50A (standard, with shorttime current of up to 100A)
  * single/dual direction control
  * motorbrake
  * current sensing to detect shorts/blocking motor

I thing it's obvious that I'm trying to build a RC motor controller. Since I
know that many commercial products nowadays have a PIC (I know of 54 or 84)
inside, it should be possible to build such a thing.
my draft for such a device:
  combination of the above (1., 2.)
  PIC 16C84 (still the only one I can program) with information storage
  in internal EEPROM (receiver impuls, slew rate, motor data)
  modular final stage for cars or planes (brake, single/dual direction,
  etc.)

Since there are so many (aren't there?) RC modellers on the list it would be
interesting to share informations/experiences on the subject of using PICs in
RC models (in the whole and motor controllers especially).

With the minimal research I have done so far I also encountered some questions:
* What is the best way to do multiple tasks with a PIC (esp. 16C84)?
 Ex.: In a motor controller I would have to watch for the incomming impulses
      whilst pulse width modulating a motor, sensing the current, etc.
      To bad if I'm stuck in a wait loop... (If you know what I mean :-)
      Since I want to use the 84 - How do I put the interrupts to best use?
* Which (power) transistors should I use in the final stage?
  BUZ11 looks promissing.. but SIPMOS TEMPFETs/PROFETs/TOPFETs also look good
  (though a much higher price, but temperature/shorts protection)
  What would be the "best" transistor for my task ? (low Rds[on] <50mOhm,
  Id[max] >20A, reasonable pricing/pice, etc.)

  BTW: I bought some BUZ11 which have an 'A' mark on the cooling metal.
       Does that mean that those FETs are in fact BUZ11As and not BUZ11s.
       The plastic housing has printed 'BUZ11' on it (NO A) but what about
       the mark on the metal... ???
       What's the best way to measure the Rds[on] with hobbiest equipment
       (some DVMs [not acurate in mOhms-Measuring], Scope [10MHz])?


Finaly you might ask yourself, why I don't buy one of those commercial juwels
(Ahh.. controllers)?
A. Inflexibility: ('Please define [in-]flex-i-bil-i-ty... Ahh')
  Commercial controllers are trimmed for a single task. If I want to
  control a model car and a model aeroplane I would have to buy two
  controllers <cliiing>, although I wouldn't use both models at the same time.
  It's allmost impossible to find a controller which is really adequat for the
  given task. 'Testing a controller ? - Impossible - buy it first!' <cling>
  I also want to control the slew rate ('Expensive... 8-]' <cling,cling>) of
  the motor with my PC ('Impossible... :-(').

B. The Price: (Isn't it allways ?)
  As I wrote above - RC motor controllers are sold at the price of juwels.
  But a diamond wouldn't explode/burn out if you connect the power supply
the     wrong way - And who didn't/doesn't make mistakes. Such controllers also
  age at a rapid speed (Every year there is something new). If the nowadays
controller is damaged nobody but the manufactorer will repair it (time delay,
  prohibitive cost). So it's off to the bank to get a new loan.

C. Experience:
  I'm still very new to the PICs. I know it will be a hard way to a functinal
  unit but I certainly will learn my share.
  With the knowledge gained I could easily repair the RC motor controller :-)
  Thus *no more garbage collection* for high tech stuff! ;-)
  And ... 'What you know You KNOW.'

Thanks in advance for your response(s)!

****************************************************************************
*   Roman VALEHRACH               eMail-to: @spam@e8927070RemoveMEspamEraseMEstudent.tuwien.ac.at  *
*   student of technical university vienna     (subject of annual change)  *
*                                                                          *
*  "SHARE AND ENJOY, SHARE AND ENJOY... "               furry creatures  ->*
*  "The EARTH: ..... (ed., revised: MOSTLY) HARMLESS"   from alpha-centaur *
*  "Say.. is there ANY tea on THIS ship ?"              (footprints)       *
****************************************************************************

1995\11\07@114331 by Conny Andersson

flavicon
face
At 15.16 1995-11-07 +0100, Roman VALEHRACH wrote:

>Hi to all PICers out there!

Oh my, what a letter, almost as long as a spam ;)

-- chop --- chop --

>* What is the best way to do multiple tasks with a PIC (esp. 16C84)?

Use a "state" variable to control where you are in each task and execute
each task in turn via some time sharing scheme, e.g. 2ms for you, 5ms for
you and so on. To control time, you can setup a timer to count down to zero
and then generate an interrupt - set a flag and the current task will finish
what it's doing when the task checks this flag. Each critical input (such as
waveform period measurements) could generate interrupts on selected edges
and store these measurements for further processing in the appropriate task(s).

Just some thoughts ... hope it gives you some new ideas ...

>* Which (power) transistors should I use in the final stage?

I say, read the specifications and look at some examples in the data sheets.
Then try it out on a protoboard (maybe not 20A though).

To measure Rds[on] you can setup a test circuit with high power resistors
and try it out in practise. I did so when I started to build a mega led
display with over 1000 leds and controlled by the well-known Z80-processor.
(The project is currently on halt, I wonder why?)

-- chop --- chop --

>C. Experience:
>   I'm still very new to the PICs. I know it will be a hard way to a functinal
>   unit but I certainly will learn my share.

A small advice ... start with a simple project to learn the basics. I
started with the '54 and I was surprised how much code you actually could
fill it with.


-- Conny

1995\11\07@120021 by Mark A. Corio

picon face
What kind of RC model needs 50 or 100 Amps of current?  Even at 9-volts thats
into the horsepower range!!!

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel:  (716) 328-5850
Fax:  (716) 328-1144
e-mail:  EraseMEMcoriospam@spam@aol.com

***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

1995\11\07@135127 by Scott Stephens

picon face
>What kind of RC model needs 50 or 100 Amps of current?  Even at 9-volts thats
>into the horsepower range!!!

The Kalt Whisper electric RC helicopter takes around 35 Amps (average), at
9.6 volts. It only flies for 6 minutes. People I've talked with say
performance just isn't comparable to gas motors. Maybe soon Zinc-air or some
other fuel-cell technology will make electric airplanes and helicopters a
bit more practical. The speed controller in the helicopter ad has 8 TO-220
power FET tabs protruding from its case.

1995\11\07@135134 by Scott Stephens

picon face
>I'm looking for some code (preferable with application notes for the circuits)
>concering radio control and motor control - preferable with PICs (but no
>exlusive):
>
The Circuit Cellar BBS (860) 871-1988, has the file SERVOPIC.ZIP in File
Area 1 from the October 1994, Issue #51
magazine. You may be able to get it from their web site. The code is for PWM
multiple servo's.

>1. Decoding the servo impulse/s from a RC receiver:
>   * preferable a 'self learning' application
>   * determination of multiple levels of modulation (centre, and max. would
>     certainly be of help for the beginning)
>   * 'fail save'-state whilste there is a signal loss/no signal

It might be better to use PIC to modulate and demodulate your signal,
tapping the receiver's comparator output and your transmitters modulation
input. That way, you can employ error detection and correction codes in
firmware.

>* What is the best way to do multiple tasks with a PIC (esp. 16C84)?
>  Ex.: In a motor controller I would have to watch for the incomming impulses
>       whilst pulse width modulating a motor, sensing the current, etc.
>       To bad if I'm stuck in a wait loop... (If you know what I mean :-)
>       Since I want to use the 84 - How do I put the interrupts to best use?

Read Microchip's AP-Note AN-585 "A real-Time Operating System for PIC16/17".
Read about state-machine design in a textbook. The April 92 Computer
Applications Journal has a good article on state-machine design.

>        What's the best way to measure the Rds[on] with hobbiest equipment
>        (some DVMs [not acurate in mOhms-Measuring], Scope [10MHz])?

I would observe the voltage drop across the FET, motor and batteries in
operation. Then use the series current to determine where the power is going.

I'm interested in a good power FET too. I don't like high-side drives &
charge pumps.

1995\11\07@135319 by Timothy McDonough DIAL UP1

flavicon
face
Many of the high performance airplanes such as the sailplanes flown in
F5B competition and even larger sport models use 18-26 cells and draw
50 amps plus. Some of the F5B racers will drain a 20+ cell pack of 1700
mAh batteries in 20 seconds or so.

Tim

On Tue, 7 Nov 1995, Mark A. Corio wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1995\11\07@135935 by Maurizio Conti

flavicon
face
At 15.16 07/11/95 +0100, you wrote:

>.....* What is the best way to do multiple tasks with a PIC (esp. 16C84)?

I have done much experience with the multitask problem .
The good results have obtained them using the technique of the finite state
machine.

Maurizio Conti                           / __  __  __       / ___ ____
spamBeGonemcontiEraseMEspamiper.net                         / /__)/_  /__) /\  / /_    /
http://www.iper.net                    / /   /__ / \  /  \/ /___  /
                                                    /
------------------------------------------------------------------

1995\11\08@023210 by SONY-OD

flavicon
face
>I'm looking for some code (preferable with application notes for the circuits)
>concering radio control and motor control - preferable with PICs (but no
>exlusive):
>

I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
since 2 months - no crash !!! -
If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
you the whole document.
I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
8031.

 Philippe TECHER at "sonyedespamBeGonespamiway.fr"

1995\11\08@040340 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

flavicon
face
G'day,

> If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
> you the whole document.

I'd indeed be very interested in seeing this. Please post it - or if you like
you can upload it to our ftp site (ftp.hitech.com.au) and we can make
it available from there.

Regards, Clyde

--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs       | HI-TECH Software,       | Voice: +61 7 3300 5011
RemoveMEclyde@spam@spamspamBeGonehitech.com.au      | P.O. Box 103, Alderley, | Fax:   +61 7 3300 5246
http://www.hitech.com.au  | QLD, 4051, AUSTRALIA.   | BBS:   +61 7 3300 5235
                   HI-TECH C: Compiling the real world...

1995\11\08@085013 by SONY-OD

flavicon
face
From:
 Philippe at ".....sonyede@spam@spamEraseMEiway.fr" FRANCE.


>I'm looking for some code (preferable with application notes for the circuits)
>concering radio control and motor control - preferable with PICs (but no
>exlusive):
>

I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
since 2 months - no crash !!! -
If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
you the whole document.
I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
8031.

1995\11\09@203714 by William D. McMillan

picon face
I'd be interested.  What formats are the documents in?

1995\11\10@115230 by Valehrach Roman

flavicon
face
William D. McMillan wrote:
>I'd be interested.  What formats are the documents in?

Did I miss something here ? After my original REQUEST FOR code I only got
William's response. Did someone else respond with a message saying that he
actually HAS code? Please enlighten me on that matter. (William ?) :-)


BTW I solved the BUZ11 (with 'A'-mark) problem...
To make a long story short - They ARE BUZ11s <hurray>

(the 'a bit longer' story... ;-)
One might be suprised what hobbyists have in their most hidden drawers.
I remembered that I build a constant current regulator (from a printed article)
and actually found it in it's hidding place :-)
So I but the current regulator in between a strong power source and the drain
of the BUZ11. After applying the sufficient ON-voltage at the BUZ's gate I
set the regulator to 1 Amp. and measured the voltage between Drain and Source...
35 mV -> 35 mOhm (plus 10% error with my DMV make less than 40 mOhm)
=> BUZ11 specs
(First I measured the voltage with about 2 cm of wire in between, only got
72 mV, my... what 2 cm can do to measurment :-[ )

Bye for now...
Have a nice weekend :-)
I'm going to bug my RC receiver to determine if I can't decode some pulses...
:-)

****************************************************************************
*   Roman VALEHRACH               eMail-to: .....e8927070RemoveMEspamstudent.tuwien.ac.at  *
*   student of technical university vienna     (subject of annual change)  *
*                                                                          *
*  "SHARE AND ENJOY, SHARE AND ENJOY... "               furry creatures  ->*
*  "The EARTH: ..... (ed., revised: MOSTLY) HARMLESS"   from alpha-centaur *
*  "Say.. is there ANY tea on THIS ship ?"              (footprints)       *
****************************************************************************

1995\11\10@120511 by Preben Granberg

flavicon
face
>>I'm looking for some code (preferable with application notes for the circuits)
>>concering radio control and motor control - preferable with PICs (but no
>>exlusive):
>>
>
>I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
>This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
>a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
>since 2 months - no crash !!! -
>If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
>you the whole document.
>I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
>8031.
>
>  Philippe TECHER at ".....sonyedeSTOPspamspam@spam@iway.fr"
>

Please, one copy to me to !!!

Preben
Creative Micro
Hinbjerg 38
DK-2690 Karlslunde
Denmark
Tel +45 4615 4655
Fax +45 4215 3977

1995\11\16@073047 by Tony Chilton

flavicon
face
>
> I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
> This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
> a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
> since 2 months - no crash !!! -
> If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
> you the whole document.
> I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
> 8031.
>
>   Philippe TECHER at "sonyedeEraseMEspam@spam@iway.fr"
>

I would appreciate a copy

regards

Tony Chilton

1995\11\16@090619 by EFBRYA

flavicon
face
>
> I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
> This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
> a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
> since 2 months - no crash !!! -
> If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
> you the whole document.
> I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
> 8031.
>
>   Philippe TECHER at "RemoveMEsonyedespamspamBeGoneiway.fr"
>

I like a copy

Thanks!

Eric Bryan
spamBeGoneefbryaKILLspamspam@spam@acxiom.com

1995\11\16@232936 by Joel Carvajal

flavicon
face
>
> I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
> This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
> a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
> since 2 months - no crash !!! -
> If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
> you the whole document.
> I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
> 8031.
>
>   Philippe TECHER at "sonyedespam_OUTspam@spam@iway.fr"
>

I like a copy

Thanks!

Joel R. Carvajal
spamBeGonejoel@spam@spamtds.pfi.net

1995\11\18@100402 by wurmfeld

picon face
Hi, I am looking for just a link, I am currently modifing my son's toy
school bus with a motor and lights... I was looking at infrared to control
it. Perhaps what you have can also do the trick. Please EMAIl me the details
to RemoveMEdavidwEraseMEspamKILLspamggx.com.


Many Thanks,
David.

1995\11\18@104216 by Mohamad Shalan

flavicon
face
I am interested in the infrared control. Let me know if u
get anything

       bye,
       shalan.

1995\11\18@213711 by A.Perkins

flavicon
face
At 08:30 AM 11/8/95 +0100, you wrote:

>I have built a small RX-FM receiver with synthetized frenquency for RC-model.
>This receiver use RF and PLL MOTOROLA chip, for RF part and a PIC16C57 with
>a small EEPROM to decode the RC signal. This circuit run in 2 meters glider
>since 2 months - no crash !!! -
>If you are interested in PIC code, schematic and PCB, I will be happy to post
>you the whole document.
>I 'm now developping a TX-FM synthetized tranceiver with LCD panel and a
>8031.
>
>  Philippe TECHER at "spamBeGonesonyedespam_OUTspamRemoveMEiway.fr"
>

I'd love to get a copy.

Thanks  AP

'PICLIST Digest - 23 Nov 1995 to 24 Nov 1995'
1995\11\25@093611 by David Baker

flavicon
face
> From:    Nick Howard <.....CHP3HOWARNJspamRemoveMENTU.AC.UK>
> Subject: Re: PIC Textbook
>
> Does anyone know of a supplier of Scott Edwards PIC sourcebook in the UK???

You can order directly from Scott - I received mine in Malaysia a couple of
days after placing an order by email.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - davidspam@spam@baker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - EraseMEdavidRemoveMEspamSTOPspamgmetra.po.my |
|                          |  Fax                  - 60-3-2612870       |
|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


'HELP with GET from piclist!'
1995\12\02@195341 by Juan Abba
flavicon
face
Can someone please tell me is the GET procedure from =
RemoveMELISTSERVKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
had changed.??????
Two months ago I was able to get the entire month list activity using=
something like the following
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
II     To: spamBeGoneLISTSERVspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU                                          =
                         II
II     From: RemoveMEjuanabbaspam_OUTspamax.ibase.org.br (JuanJose Abba)                       =
                         II
II     Subject:                                                             =
                                                      II
II                                                                          =
                                                           II
II     GET  PICLIST  LOG9508                                                =
                                       II
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
I am trying the same command  for some weeks now. and I am nor getting any=
kind of answer
from the system.   The files do not come, neither a rejection to my request,

on the other hand, other commands to same LIST are still working, as you can=
see from the
system answer to an shown as follows;=7F
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-----------------------
II     From: BITNET list server at MITVMA <LISTSERVspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> (1.8a)=
II
II     Subject: File: "PICLIST FILELIST"                                    =
                                       II
II     To: Juan Jose Abba <spam_OUTjuanabbaspam_OUTspamspam_OUTAX.IBASE.ORG.BR>                        =
                    II
II     X-Envelope-to: juanabbaspam_OUTspamAX.IBASE.ORG.BR                              =
                         II
II                                                                          =
                                                               II
II     *  PICLIST FILELIST for LISTSERV@MITVMA.                             =
                       II
II     *                                                                    =
                                                              II
II     *  Archives for list PICLIST (pic microcontroller discussion list)   =
                          II
II     *                                                                    =
                                                              II
II     *  The GET/PUT authorization codes shown with each file entry=
describe                 II
II     *  who is authorized to GET or PUT the file:                         =
                                     II
II     *                                                                    =
                                                              II
II     *     ALL =3D Everybody                                              =
                                                  II
II     *     OWN =3D List owners                                            =
                                                 II
II     *                                                                    =
                                                              II
II     *  NOTEBOOK archives for the list                                    =
                                       II
II     *  (Monthly notebook)                                                =
                                                 II
II     *                             rec               last - change        =
                                                     II
II     * filename filetype   GET PUT -fm lrecl nrecs   date     time        =
                              II
II     * -------- --------   --- --- --- ----- ----- -------- --------      =
                                          II
II       PICLIST  LOG9408    ALL OWN V      80  2857 95/01/17 06:39:39      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9409    ALL OWN V      80  3980 95/01/17 06:39:03      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9410    ALL OWN V      80  3202 95/01/17 06:38:40      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9411    ALL OWN V      80  9202 95/01/17 06:37:57      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9412    ALL OWN V      88  8735 95/01/17 06:36:13      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9501    ALL OWN V      84 14310 95/01/31 21:36:3       =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9502    ALL OWN V      84 10909 95/02/28 11:216        =
                  II
II       PICLIST  LOG9503    ALL OWN V      84  9667 95/03/31 18:4:35       =
                   II
II       PICLIST  LOG9504    ALL OWN V      84  7475 95/04/30 19:01:10      =
                  II
II       PICLIST  LOG9505    ALL OWN V      92 11489 95/05/31 21:09:50      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9506    ALL OWN V      84 17833 95/06/30 18:45:54      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9507    ALL OWN V      84 12592 95/07/31 21:53:45      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9508    ALL OWN V      86 17609 95/08/31 15:50:55      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9509    ALL OWN V      80 17332 95/09/30 23:55:27      =
                 II
II       PICLIST  LOG9510    ALL OWN V      83  4101 95/10/05 19:29:21      =
                  II
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----------------------------
can somebody explain what am I  doing wrong
juanabba
=20

1995\12\02@211622 by Juan Abba

flavicon
face
As the file format was partially lost during manipulation, I am sending
it again.  Sorry for the inconvinience.


{Quote hidden}

1995\12\03@204136 by Przemek Klosowski

flavicon
face
One person writes
  >Can someone please tell me is the GET procedure from
  > LISTSERVspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU had changed.??????
  >
Fifteen other persons write
  > UNSUBSCRIBE

I get a stern 'reject' message every time I post to the list.


Man, I really wish we agreed to having a newsgroup...

                       przemek klosowski (RemoveMEprzemekspamBeGonespamRemoveMEnist.gov)
                       Reactor Division (bldg. 235), E111
                       National Institute of Standards and Technology
                       Gaithersburg, MD 20899,      USA

                       (301) 975 6249

1995\12\04@221145 by William D. McMillan

picon face
Ditto.  I'm trying to unsubscribe this account so I can get it transfered to
my .edu address, but no dice so far.  The SIGNOFF PICLIST command doesn't
work so far.

1995\12\09@083832 by Juan Abba

flavicon
face
Following message was sent twice already,  and no one from the LIST
administration had said a word about it.
IS THERE SOMEBODY THAT HAS AN ADDRESS I CAN E-MAIL TO IN ORDER  TO ESCALATE THE
PROBLEM????
thanks
KILLspamjuanabbaspamBeGonespamax.apc.org (Juan Abba)

{Quote hidden}

1995\12\09@161032 by rrose

flavicon
face
> Following message was sent twice already,  and no one from the LIST
>  administration had said a word about it.
> IS THERE SOMEBODY THAT HAS AN ADDRESS I CAN E-MAIL TO IN ORDER  TO ESCALATE
THE
>  PROBLEM????

I too have sent a message to the sysop requesting help on this
problem.  I too have yet to get a response.

Richard Rosenheim
KILLspamrrosespamspamspam_OUTaccessnv.com

1995\12\12@171256 by ellis

flavicon
picon face
On Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:10:06 -0500, you wrote:

>_Ditto.  I'm trying to unsubscribe this account so I can get it transfered to
>_my .edu address, but no dice so far.  The SIGNOFF PICLIST command doesn't
>_work so far.

When I changed from office e-mail address to home, I signed off from
the office with :

To : listservRemoveMEspammitvma.mit.edu

signoff piclist local

There is no need to have a subject line or anything else.


Ellis Skinazi                                     Everything in excess,
Internet : EraseMEellisSTOPspamspamRemoveMEellski.demon.co.uk                 moderation is for monks.
Compuserve : 74003,3574

1995\12\17@194251 by Juan Abba

flavicon
face
For more than a month, I am trying to get the October and later the November
PICLIST archives.
As GET is not working I have asked for help the PICLIST as well as the list
owner at two different address,(  spam_OUTjoryRemoveMEspamEraseMEmit.edu       and   TakeThisOuTjoryRemoveMEspam@spam@figment.mit.edu
    (jory bell)
but I still with no hints of what may be happening, except some suggestions " to
send the HELP request to a different address, which of course I am
doing,(EraseMELISTSERVRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU)."
the message I sent to jory at both address above, is as follows, but no answer
to it do far.

ANY SUGESTION   ??????
Juanabba


Hi Jory, are you getting our messages at all????
attached one was sent a week ago
juanabba

Hi, Jory
this is my message asking for help on the GET command that does not work
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------
> Following message was sent twice already,  and no one from the LIST
>  administration had said a word about it.
> IS THERE SOMEBODY THAT HAS AN ADDRESS I CAN E-MAIL TO IN ORDER  TO ESCALATE
THE
>  PROBLEM????

this is from another user
------------------------------
I too have sent a message to the sysop requesting help on this
problem.  I too have yet to get a response.

Richard Rosenheim
spamrrose.....spamspamaccessnv.com

'DUPLICATE PICLIST MESSAGES (was: "Floppy drive spe'
1995\12\18@232042 by Andrew Warren

flavicon
face
Adam Eberbach <adamspam_OUTspam@spam@DATAPLEX.COM.AU> wrote:

> This message is being 're-forwarded' - the list thinks I'm sending a
> duplicate. Dumb list.

   So let me get this straight, Adam...

   The list server tells you that you've already sent two copies of
   the message, and your response is to send yet another copy and
   call the LIST dumb?  Hmm...

   I've posted this message about three times so far... Here it is
   again:

       READ THIS IF YOU'RE GETTING "DUPLICATE MESSAGE" WARNINGS
       FROM THE "PICLIST" LIST SERVER:

       The list server software includes a helpful feature which
       screens out duplicate messages.  If your mailreader program
       (or your brain) takes a vacation and you accidentally send a
       hundred copies of a single message to the list, the list
       server will bounce all the duplicates back to you with a
       warning.  This is a good thing.

       However...

       There's a bug in the PICLIST's list server software:
       Occasionally, you'll get a "duplicate message" warning when
       you've only posted one copy of your message.

       IGNORE THIS WARNING.  DO NOT RE-SEND YOUR MESSAGE!

       Think for a second:  Even if the warning WERE valid, it
       would still mean that at least one copy of your message DID
       make it to the list.

   If you don't trust the list server to handle your mail properly,
   send a message to the list server with the following body text:

               SET PICLIST REPRO

       This will make the list server send a copy of your messages
       to you, as well as to everyone else on the PICLIST.

       Ok...

> > > I may be a little off topic, but does anyone know how to get a
> > > floppy drive to spin at 750 rpm. I am using old 5.25 drives, the
> > > motor seems to have a comparator and bridge driver, but the
> > > adjusment pot makes little difference.

   Most old 5.25 drives run at around 300 RPM, and the adjustment
   pot only affects this speed by (maybe) 10 percent either way.  I'm
   not surprised that you can't get yours to adjust to 750.

   If you're aware of this and trying to double the speed for a
   reason (or if your drive is really supposed to run at 750 RPM)
   you can certainly make it run at whatever speed you like.

   If, on the other hand, you're just trying to get a broken drive
   to work, perhaps you should try adjusting the speed to 300 RPM
   and seeing whether that fixes it.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - .....fastfwdspamspam.....ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geopages.com/SiliconValley/2499

1995\12\19@002059 by Ian Stirling

flavicon
face
I've seen the list send me a 'duplicate message recieved' when I've
only sent one, defiantely a bug somewhere.
--
Ian Stirling.                        |  http://web.students.stir.ac.uk/~is06
AKA Caeser, Bolonewbie.              |  Pretty sad at the moment, should get
                                    |  better tho.

1995\12\19@003137 by Adam Eberbach

flavicon
face
Forwarded message:
> > This message is being 're-forwarded' - the list thinks I'm sending a
> > duplicate. Dumb list.
>
>     So let me get this straight, Adam...
>
>     The list server tells you that you've already sent two copies of
>     the message, and your response is to send yet another copy and
>     call the LIST dumb?  Hmm...

No, the list is still dumb. The post which was supposedly a duplicate was
my first in months. I sent another copy because the list told me that my
first post was rejected. To accept and propagate the message while telling
me that it did the opposite is clearly and unequivocably dumb.

>         Think for a second:  Even if the warning WERE valid, it
>         would still mean that at least one copy of your message DID
>         make it to the list.

To the list server, not necessarily to the list.

Anyway, back to disk drives. I guess the original poster wants 750 rpm for
some reason? You're right, they are 300 rpm so the floppy drive probably
won't work. It might be a lot easier to take a hard disk (which will have a
higher speed) and try to find some multiple of 750 - if you found a 1500 or
3000 rpm drive you'd be laughing. Either add a sensor trigger to the platter or
wherever it's mounted, or delete some of the pulses coming from the speed
sensor.

Adam Eberbach, R&D Engineer, Dataplex Pty. Ltd.

1995\12\19@010123 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

flavicon
face
Andrew Warren wrote:

>         There's a bug in the PICLIST's list server software:
>         Occasionally, you'll get a "duplicate message" warning when
>         you've only posted one copy of your message.

Occasionally my foot! It happens EVERY time. And I can well understand
that the first time it happens, the confused poster thinks, because he
is told so, that his message has NOT been posted, because the list
server THINKS it is the same as another recent message. He knows very
well it is not the same as another recent message, but it's stretching
that a bit far to be able to deduce that the list server is lying about
the fact that the message was not posted. And the message suggests
you change the posting slightly and repost it! So I don't think you
can criticize those who do that once too much - they're only doing
as told.

The solution, of course, is to FIX THE SERVER! But of course, we don't
live in a perfect world - we put up with MS-Dross for so long, why
shouldn't we put up with a brain-dead list server as well?

I apologize for venting my spleen, but really, let's be clear about
where the problem is - does the welcome message for the Piclist include
a note about the "idosyncracies" of the server?

It reminds me of the chip manufacturer who wanted a software manual
revised to eliminate references to "limitations" of the processor
architecture - they were to be referred to as "features" or "characteristics"
and if the software gave the hardware a helping hand it was "enhancing"
not "compensating".

>         IGNORE THIS WARNING.  DO NOT RE-SEND YOUR MESSAGE!

What about this warning - should it be ignored too? Oh, wait, this is
from a fallible human - it must be gospel.



--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs       | HI-TECH Software,       | Voice: +61 7 3300 5011
clydeKILLspamspamEraseMEhitech.com.au      | P.O. Box 103, Alderley, | Fax:   +61 7 3300 5246
http://www.hitech.com.au  | QLD, 4051, AUSTRALIA.   | BBS:   +61 7 3300 5235
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
FREE! Download our shareware (FREE for noncommercial use) MS-DOS C Compiler!
            Point your Web browser at http://www.hitech.com.au/

'HELP with GET from piclist!'
1995\12\19@070554 by William Kitchen

flavicon
face
Juan Abba wrote:
>
> For more than a month, I am trying to get the October and later the November
>  PICLIST archives.......snip.....
>
> ANY SUGESTION   ??????
> Juanabba

Hello Juan,

I don't know about the GET command (I've never tried to use it), but you can
access
PIC-list back mail on the WWW using a request form at
http://pasture.ecn.purdue.edu/~laird/MLists/

Willaim Kitchen

'DUPLICATE PICLIST MESSAGES (was: "Floppy drive spe'
1995\12\19@074413 by William Kitchen

flavicon
face
Andrew Warren wrote:
>         There's a bug in the PICLIST's list server software:
>         Occasionally, you'll get a "duplicate message" warning when
>         you've only posted one copy of your message.
Thanks, Andy.  I was wondering why I was getting the duplicate message
warnings for messages that I could almost swear I only sent once.  I
thought that maybe my mail software was doing something strange or that I
had perhaps set something up wrong.

William Kitchen

'HELP with GET from piclist!'
1995\12\19@123943 by Juan Jose Abba

flavicon
face
Willaim
Thanks a lot for taking your time to help.
As my Internet provider is very poor except on E-mail, is there a way to get the
PICLIST files for each complete month (  using E-Mail ) with just one command
from the WWW????
thanks again

Juan Abba

{Quote hidden}

Willaim Kitchen
>
>

1995\12\19@134737 by William Kitchen

flavicon
face
Juan Jose Abba wrote:
>
> Willaim
> Thanks a lot for taking your time to help.
> As my Internet provider is very poor except on E-mail, is there a way to get
the
>  PICLIST files for each complete month (  using E-Mail ) with just one command
>  from the WWW????
> thanks again
>
> Juan Abba

Hello Juan, I tried sending commands to the list server just to see what would
happen.  I sent the "INDEX PICLIST" command first to the address
EraseMElistserv@spam@spam@spam@mitvma.bitnet that is mentioned in the message that I first received
from
the list server. The message was returned as undeliverable.  I then tried
sending
it to the other address, @spam@listservspamspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu and it worked ok.  Then I sent
the
"GET PICLIST LOG9512" command to this same address and it returned the
appropriate
mail archive just as it should have.  So the first address mentioned in the
instructions from the list server is invalid, but the alternate address works.
I
don't know if this is what was causing problems for you, but it could be.
Anyway,
I hope this information helps.

Good luck,

William Kitchen

1995\12\19@153408 by Lee Jones

flavicon
face
On Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:45:04 -0800, William Kitchen wrote:

> I tried sending commands to the list server just to see what would
> happen.  I sent the "INDEX PICLIST" command first to the address
> spamBeGonelistservRemoveMEspamEraseMEmitvma.bitnet [...] The message was returned as undeliverable.

Who returned the mail?  MIT -- I doubt it.  Or you local mail router
because it didn't know how to route to the BITNET domain.

> [then I tried] RemoveMElistservKILLspamspamRemoveMEmitvma.mit.edu and it worked ok. [...] So the
> first address mentioned in the instructions from the list server is invalid

Please don't confuse people.  Because an address is invalid for you does
not mean it is invalid for everyone.

BITNET and the Internet are two, disjoint nationwide networks.  They use
different protocols.  BITNET is based on large IBM mainframe computers.
I believe MITVMA is a big IBM.  And it is probably directly connected to
both BITNET and the Internet.  As an aside, BITNET is shrinking (some
would say losing out to the Internet).

Depending on connectivity of the SENDER's (i.e. your) machine, either
or both addresses may work.  If you're on the Internet and need to get
to a BITNET only node, you can route via interbit.cren.net for email.
I expect "mitvma%TakeThisOuTbitnetspaminterbit.cren.net" would work.

                                               Lee Jones

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Jones Computer Communications             spamBeGoneleeKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTfrumble.claremont.edu
509 Black Hills Dr, Claremont, CA 91711         voice: 909-621-9008
-------------------------------------------------------------------

1995\12\19@233958 by William Kitchen

flavicon
face
> On Tue, 19 Dec 1995 12:45:04 -0800, William Kitchen wrote:
>
> > I tried sending commands to the list server just to see what would
> > happen.  I sent the "INDEX PICLIST" command first to the address
> > EraseMElistserv.....spamKILLspammitvma.bitnet [...] The message was returned as undeliverable.
>
> Who returned the mail?  MIT -- I doubt it.  Or you local mail router
> because it didn't know how to route to the BITNET domain.

Yes, it was the local mail router.  I don't think MIT would have described
the problem as being "undeliverable".

> BITNET and the Internet are two, disjoint nationwide networks.  They use
> different protocols.  BITNET is based on large IBM mainframe computers.
> I believe MITVMA is a big IBM.  And it is probably directly connected to
> both BITNET and the Internet.  As an aside, BITNET is shrinking (some
> would say losing out to the Internet).

Thanks for clearing that up.  But nonetheless, it is possible this
difference could account for some of the difficulty that some may have with
getting the list server to respond to commands.

William Kitchen

1995\12\20@091324 by Siegfried Grob

flavicon
face
> As my Internet provider is very poor except on E-mail, is there a way to get
the
> PICLIST files for each complete month (  using E-Mail ) with just one command
> from the WWW????
> thanks again

> Juan Abba

try sending (as an example:)
       GET PICLIST LOG9508
                      ^^^^
                      this is the year and month
to
       spamLISTSERVspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

and you will get one huge email with all mails of August 95.


Siggi

1995\12\20@091324 by Siegfried Grob

flavicon
face
> As my Internet provider is very poor except on E-mail, is there a way to get
the
> PICLIST files for each complete month (  using E-Mail ) with just one command
> from the WWW????
> thanks again

> Juan Abba

try sending (as an example:)
       GET PICLIST LOG9508
                      ^^^^
                      this is the year and month
to
       LISTSERVSTOPspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU

and you will get one huge email with all mails of August 95.


Siggi

'DUPLICATE PICLIST MESSAGES (was: "Floppy drive spe'
1995\12\20@220223 by John Payson

flavicon
face
> No, the list is still dumb. The post which was supposedly a duplicate was
> my first in months. I sent another copy because the list told me that my
> first post was rejected. To accept and propagate the message while telling
> me that it did the opposite is clearly and unequivocably dumb.

I have a very strong suspicion that there is an address subscribed to the
list which is improperly bouncing messages such that the server doesn't
recognize them as bounces.  Thus, the sequence is:

 Your message goes to server
 It goes from there to everyone, including the failing address
 The failed address bounces
 The server sees the bounce and generates a "duplicate posting" message
   which it then sends to you [apparently the machine at the bad address
   munged the addresses in the message such that the server thought its
   bounce came from you].
 You see the "duplicate posting" message . . .

I think the best solution to this problem would probably be for the list
maintainer to send a message to all people on the list asking them NOT to
reply if they received the message, with the From: and Reply-to: set to
the list maintainer (not the list itself!).  This would then allow the
person maintaining the list to identify any addresses which are bouncing
and unsubscribe them from the list.

Does anyone see any problems with this strategy?

1995\12\20@233833 by Andrew Warren

flavicon
face
John Payson wrote:

> I think the best solution to this problem would probably be for the
> list maintainer to send a message to all people on the list ....
>
> Does anyone see any problems with this strategy?

   Just one, John...

   Jory Bell, the list maintainer, left the country a couple of
   months ago and is apparently still abroad; he doesn't seem to
   have checked in to the list since he left.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwdSTOPspamspamKILLspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geopages.com/SiliconValley/2499

'PICLIST Digest - 26 Dec 1995 to 27 Dec 1995; PIC E'
1995\12\28@051251 by John Fairall

flavicon
face
PIC IN CIRCUIT EMULATOR

As you may know, Amar Palacherla was the original designer responsible for
the PIC Master at Microchip Tech, several years ago. I was theN. European
Application Engineer before beconimg the Regional Manager for ASIA Pacific.

After Leaving Microchip, Amar and I got together to design a new version of
emulator
for the PIC16CXX, under contract from Microchip.

We now have the ICEPIC16CXX. We believe it is the best emulator on the
market particularly at the price.
It is a ful real time emulator operating under Windows, with a complete
Integrated Development Environment (includes source level debug for
assembler and "c"), with a serial port interface for notebook users.

For further information and DEMO SOFTWARE, please see our web page on

http://www.stph.net/icepic

For European customers, the ICEPIC meets the new CE compliance.

Prices are as follows;

PART NO         THIS IS AN EMULATOR AND DAUGHTER
               BOARD FOR THE FOLLOWING PICS              US$
ICEPIC5X                                   16C5X
     748.80
ICEPIC64                               16C62,16C64
      827.84
ICEPIC74                       16C63, 16C65, 16C73, 16C74
852.80
ICEPIC71                                   16C71
    794.56
ICEPIC84                                   16C84
    794.56
ICEPIC62X                  16C62X
794.56
ICEPIC       EMULATOR WITHOUT DAUGHTER BRD              520.00

PART NO         THESE ARE ADD ON DAUGHTER BOARDS
                  FOR THE FOLLOWING PICS                                    US$
ICEPIC-DB5X                 16C5X
  249.60
ICEPIC-DB64                 16C62, 16C64                                   307.8
4
ICEIPIC-DB74    16C63, 16C65, 16C73, 16C74                                 332.8
0
ICEPIC-DB71                 16C71
  274.56
ICEPIC-DB84                 16C84
  274.56
ICEPIC-DB62X                16C62X
274.56


best regards John Fairall







best regards

John Fairall

1995\12\28@053204 by John Fairall

flavicon
face
PIC IN CIRCUIT EMULATOR

As you may know, Amar Palacherla was the original designer responsible for
the PIC Master at Microchip Tech, several years ago. I was theN. European
Application Engineer before beconimg the Regional Manager for ASIA Pacific.

After Leaving Microchip, Amar and I got together to design a new version of
emulator
for the PIC16CXX, under contract from Microchip.

We now have the ICEPIC16CXX. We believe it is the best emulator on the
market particularly at the price.
It is a ful real time emulator operating under Windows, with a complete
Integrated Development Environment (includes source level debug for
assembler and "c"), with a serial port interface for notebook users.

For further information and DEMO SOFTWARE, please see our web page on

http://www.stph.net/icepic

For European customers, the ICEPIC meets the new CE compliance.

Prices are as follows;

PART NO         THIS IS AN EMULATOR AND DAUGHTER
               BOARD FOR THE FOLLOWING PICS              US$
ICEPIC5X                                   16C5X
     748.80
ICEPIC64                               16C62,16C64
      827.84
ICEPIC74                       16C63, 16C65, 16C73, 16C74
852.80
ICEPIC71                                   16C71
    794.56
ICEPIC84                                   16C84
    794.56
ICEPIC62X                  16C62X
794.56
ICEPIC       EMULATOR WITHOUT DAUGHTER BRD              520.00

PART NO         THESE ARE ADD ON DAUGHTER BOARDS
                  FOR THE FOLLOWING PICS                                    US$
ICEPIC-DB5X                 16C5X
  249.60
ICEPIC-DB64                 16C62, 16C64
307.84
ICEIPIC-DB74    16C63, 16C65, 16C73, 16C74
332.80
ICEPIC-DB71                 16C71
  274.56
ICEPIC-DB84                 16C84
  274.56
ICEPIC-DB62X                16C62X
274.56


best regards John Fairall







best regards

John Fairall


'PICLIST Digest - 17 Mar 1996 to 18 Mar 1996'
1996\03\19@141645 by John Fairall
flavicon
face
There is a new low cost emulator whic is being offered by Microchip, its
called the ICEPIC, and it offers Real ime emulation with all the featuresone
expects from an emulator. It runs under windows with a really nice
interface. Fully compatible with MPASM / MPC etc, with source level debugger.

The cost is about US$750 for a '5X system. For further informaiton the
manufacturer has a web page containing the windows software, to enable
anyone to have a look at it. The page is

http://www.stph.net/icepic

Best Regards

John Fairall
RF Solutions Ltd.
Pannetts Building, Railway Lane,
Lewes, East Sussex. England.
Tel +44 1273 488 880
Fax + 44 1273 480 661
e-mail; @spam@icpeic.....spamspampavilion.co.uk

'Number of PICLIST Subscribers'
1996\03\25@222012 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
K. McKinnon <spamPICLIST.....spam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> is 716 the right number [of subscribers to the PICLIST]

Ken:

Last time I checked, the number was 704... I'd suspect that 716 is
accurate now.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwd.....spamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\03\28@032732 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
K. McKinnon <KILLspamPICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> is 716 the right number [of subscribers to the PICLIST]

Ken:

Last time I checked, the number was 704... I'd suspect that 716 is
accurate now.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - spam_OUTfastfwdspamTakeThisOuTix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\03\29@230738 by Eric Seeley

flavicon
face
>K. McKinnon <.....PICLIST.....spamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:
>
>> is 716 the right number [of subscribers to the PICLIST]
>
>Ken:
>
>Last time I checked, the number was 704... I'd suspect that 716 is
>accurate now.
>
>-Andy
>
>Andrew Warren - spam_OUTfastfwdTakeThisOuTspamEraseMEix.netcom.com
>Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499
>
>This would be an interesting excercise in statistics..I get ~30 messages a
day.  Just have to factor out the outliers..Andy you there?

Eric


'PICLIST Digest - 23 Mar 1996 to 24 Mar 1996'
1996\04\02@173238 by David Baker
flavicon
face
On Mon, 25 Mar 1996 00:01:09 -0500, "Automatic digest processor"
<EraseMELISTSERVspamBeGonespamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

Subject: Re: Thank You.
>
> We ALL have lately received quite a few "hot headed" FLAMING responses (As
> they say: "faster to flame than to tame...") to SPAM messages to our list,
> with a vocabulary not so fit for most of us (I won't repeat it here...:-).
> The PICLIST, as a VERY active mailing list, is very attractive to spam'ers.
> Well, we all know that. Let's not play  into the hands of the spam'ers: I'm
> sure some of them even enjoy seeing FLAMES bouncing back and forth between
> list members.

The best solution would be to stop these spams getting in in the first
place. I remember a while back there was a plan to do something about it,
like only allow subscribed members to post or have a twit filter or
something? I digest this list & just about every time there is at least one
of these messages shoved in the middle.

Is there still a plan to fix this one day? I already unsubscribed once but
came back when the list manager said he was going to get it fixed.

Dave
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|       David Baker        |  Internet   ID (home) - RemoveMEdavidspamBeGonespamspambaker.pc.my  |
|   Electronics Engineer   |  Internet   ID (work) - @spam@davidspamspamgmetra.po.my |
|                          |  Fax                  - 60-3-2612870       |
|  Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia  |  Compuserve ID        - 70461,2360         |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Anti-Spam Measures (was: "Re: PICLIST Digest - 23 '
1996\04\03@021201 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
David Baker <TakeThisOuTPICLISTKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> The best solution would be to stop these spams getting in in the
> first place. I remember a while back there was a plan to do
> something about it, like only allow subscribed members to post or
> have a twit filter or something?
> ....
> Is there still a plan to fix this one day? I already unsubscribed
> once but came back when the list manager said he was going to get it
> fixed.

Dave:

Jory Bell (the list owner) DID try to implement that solution, but
there were some undesirable side-effects.  Chief among these was that
many of the list subscribers (like me, for instance) use ISPs that
assign different domain names each time we log on.  In my case, the
"From:" line in the mail I send is variously set to
".....fastfwdRemoveMEspamix.netcom.com", "KILLspamfastfwdspamTakeThisOuTpopd.ix.netcom.com",
"TakeThisOuTfastfwdspamspam_OUTix3.ix.netcom.com", "RemoveMEfastfwdspamspamSTOPspamix14.ix.netcom.com", etc.

There's no problem with replying to any of those addresses (usually);
Netcom straightens everything out and routes all those replies to me.
However, Jory's anti-spam routine worked by comparing the "From:"
address to the list of subscribers.  Since my Netcom-assigned domain
name only matches the address on the subscriber list about 5% of the
time, 95% of the messages I sent would be refused by the list server.

[Of course, this could actually be a GOOD thing for all of you...]

The solution which first came to mind was to subscribe me under all
possible domain names that Netcom might assign.  This allowed me to
post messages to the list, but unfortunately resulted in my receiving
14 copies of every message that anyone else posted.

After a couple of days, Jory decided that the anti-spam software was
more trouble than it was worth and removed it.  For now, the best
solution is simply to ignore the spam... After all, it comprises
less than 1% of all messages posted here.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - .....fastfwdEraseMEspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'PICLIST PROBLEMS'
1996\04\03@033239 by Bob.Minchin

flavicon
face
Dear Piclisters,

I can't help feeling that I am not getting the best use from the Piclist server.
I have been getting some strange responses that neither I or my IT helpdesk
staff can resolve. Is this happening to anyone else?

I regularly receive postings from the PICLIST including both versions of the
double postings that others sometimes have to send. The route is via EUnet, a UK
service provider, via a server at my company site and then distibuted via Lotus
CCmail to my Apple Mac.

I have been replying to messages but my threads never seem to get picked up - ok
maybe my comments are not worth following up! However in an attempt to find out
why I sent the following request to the server:-

'SET PICLIST REPRO'  and  'INDEX PICLIST'

Two messages came back. The first said that I was not subscribed to the list!
and the second was executed properly.

I then sent 'GET PICLIST LOG9604' and the resulting file showed that my replies
sent recently had not got onto the list.

So  two points
a) The server thinks that I'm not subscribed and yet sends around 25 messages
per day to me
and
b) when I reply using the cmail reply button messages don't get posted.

Can anyone help? Is there mail address for server help?

Regards

'Frustrated of Romsey'

AKA

Bob Minchin
ID spamBeGonebob.minchinspamRemoveMEroke.co.uk

'set piclist ack repro'
1996\04\03@074317 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Andrew Warren wrote:

> If so, it's safe to assume that your message DID get posted; the
> message from the listserver can be ignored.
>
> The listserver doesn't normally send copies of your own messages to
> you, nor does it send you an acknowledgement when your messages are
> posted.  To change this behavior, send a message with the following
> text in the body to .....listservEraseMEspammitvma.mit.edu:
>     set piclist ack repro
> -Andy
> Andrew Warren - spamfastfwdspam_OUTspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
> Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
> http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

        ***** set piclist ack repro *****
Yeh!, I keep trying to get that message across too Andy.
Perhaps it should be the default. Comments anyone!!

Don McKenzie spamdonmck@spam@spamSTOPspamlabyrinth.net.au
DonTronics Tullamarine, Australia
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~donmck

PIC Programmers starting at $15US, BS1/2 & Alternatives 18/28 PIC proto
PicoSaurus, the 40 pin ETI PIC Basic with 8K EEPROM Free Windows Dev Sys

'Anti-Spam Measures (was: "Re: PICLIST Digest - 23 '
1996\04\03@081936 by Roger Books

flavicon
face
>  Jory Bell (the list owner) DID try to implement that solution, but
>  there were some undesirable side-effects.  Chief among these was that
>  many of the list subscribers (like me, for instance) use ISPs that
>  assign different domain names each time we log on.  In my case, the
>  "From:" line in the mail I send is variously set to
>  "spamBeGonefastfwdspamBeGonespam@spam@ix.netcom.com", "RemoveMEfastfwdRemoveMEspamRemoveMEpopd.ix.netcom.com",
>  "fastfwdKILLspamspamspamix3.ix.netcom.com", "spam_OUTfastfwd@spam@spamix14.ix.netcom.com", etc.
>
>  -Andy
>

Actually, the optimum solution would be mailing list software that allows
posting from a domain instead of just a single machine.  That is supposed
to be available in the next release of Majordomo.  If it looks good I'll
give the list a yell (I have to run mailing list software for a project
at work.)

Roger

'PICLIST PROBLEMS'
1996\04\03@203336 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Bob.Minchin@SAGE.ROKE.CO.UK <TakeThisOuTPICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I have been replying to messages but my threads never seem to get
> picked up - ok maybe my comments are not worth following up! However
> in an attempt to find out why I sent the following request to the
> server:-
>
> 'SET PICLIST REPRO'  and  'INDEX PICLIST'
>
> Two messages came back. The first said that I was not subscribed to
> the list! and the second was executed properly.
>
> I then sent 'GET PICLIST LOG9604' and the resulting file showed that
> my replies sent recently had not got onto the list.
>
> So  two points
> a) The server thinks that I'm not subscribed and yet sends around 25
> messages per day to me and b) when I reply using the cmail reply
> button messages don't get posted.
>
> Can anyone help? Is there mail address for server help?

Bob:

You can send e-mail to KILLspamjory.....spamTakeThisOuTmit.edu; he's the list-owner.

I think your problem is similar to mine; your ISP changes your
e-mail address depending upon the particular server that you log in
to.  Your signature says that your e-mail address is
"TakeThisOuTbob.minchinEraseMEspamRemoveMEroke.co.uk", but the "From:" line in your message says
"spam_OUTbob.minchinRemoveMEspam.....sage.roke.co.uk".

I'll bet that "sage" isn't the name of the server under which you
originally joined the PICLIST, and that those listserv commands that
DIDN'T work were sent from that server.

You may be able to solve this by configuring your mailreader to
always set your "From:" address to "spam....KILLspamspamKILLspamroke.co.uk", then
(optionally) re-subscribing to the PICLIST under that address.

Your other problem (replies not being sent to the PICLIST) is
probably a simple mailreader-configuration issue.  You're probably
sending replies to the original author of those messages, not to
spampiclistspam_OUTspammitvma.mit.edu.  Make sure that your mailreader is using the
"Reply-To:" address, not the "From:" address.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - STOPspamfastfwdspam_OUTspamspamBeGoneix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'set piclist ack repro'
1996\04\04@083317 by Kevin Krauel

flavicon
face
>[Re.]      ***** set piclist ack repro *****    [command]

>Yeh!, I keep trying to get that message across too Andy.
>Perhaps it should be the default. Comments anyone!!

I agree.  I am getting tired of reading redundant messages from new and/or
(I hope I don't get flamed for this :-)) inexperienced members.

       -Kevin.

'Anti-Spam Measures (was: "Re: PICLIST Digest - 23 '
1996\04\04@084143 by Mark A. Corio

picon face
If the anti-spam software has been removed, why do we continue to see people
double posting?  I thought that this was caused by the message from the list
server that our message was rejected as a duplicate.  I think it is better to
get an occasional duplicate than duplicates caused by an incorrect message
indicating a duplicate.  The other reason we could be getting duplicates is
that the list doesn't send a copy to the sender.  I know you can turn on this
option (I have) but why not make it the default as most new members (if not
most all members) would prefer it on anyway?

I agree with Andy (and many others) that the best anti-spam tactic is just to
ignore it.

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel:  (716) 328-5850
Fax:  (716) 328-1144
e-mail:  spam_OUTMcoriospamspamBeGoneaol.com

***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

'set piclist ack repro'
1996\04\04@084147 by Mark A. Corio

picon face
I agree.  This should be the default.

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel:  (716) 328-5850
Fax:  (716) 328-1144
e-mail:  EraseMEMcoriospamKILLspamaol.com

***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

1996\04\04@124935 by mike

flavicon
picon face
In message <EraseME828575204.4407.0RemoveMEspamwnt.dc.lsoft.com> .....PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU writes:
>          ***** set piclist ack repro *****
> Yeh!, I keep trying to get that message across too Andy.
> Perhaps it should be the default. Comments anyone!!
>
> Don McKenzie @spam@donmckEraseMEspamspamlabyrinth.net.au

I agree - it should be the default.

Regards,

Mike Watson

'Renewal of your subscription to the PICLIST list'
1996\04\15@051700 by Ken Hewitt

flavicon
picon face
This is a MIME message

--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj



 ------- Forwarded message follows -------

--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj
Content-Description: Forwarded message: "Renewal of your subscription to the
PICLIST list"
Content-Type: message/rfc822

Return-Path: <owner-PICLISTTakeThisOuTspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu>
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From:         BITNET list server at MITVMA (1.8a) <spam_OUTLISTSERVspamspam.....mitvma.mit.edu>
Subject:      Renewal of your subscription to the PICLIST list
To:           Ken Hewitt <ken.....spam@spam@WELWYN.DEMON.CO.UK>
X-LSV-ListID: PICLIST
Message-ID: <spamBeGone828957993.821.0spamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu>

Mon, 8 Apr 1996 06:05:10

Your subscription to the PICLIST list is due for renewal. If you wish to remain
subscribed   to    PICLIST,   please    issue   the   following    command   to
EraseMELISTSERV.....spamMITVMA.BITNET   (or   spamLISTSERVKILLspamspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU)    at   your   earliest
convenience:

                               CONFIRM PICLIST


You will be  automatically removed from the  list if you do not  send a CONFIRM
command within the next 7 days.

PS: In order to facilitate the  task, this message has been specially formatted
so  that  you only  need  to  forward  it  back to  LISTSERVspamspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.BITNET  (or
RemoveMELISTSERVRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU)  to have  the command  executed. Note  that while  the
formats  produced  by  the  forwarding  function  of  most  mail  packages  are
supported, replying will seldom work, so make sure to forward and not reply.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
// JOB
CONFIRM PICLIST
// EOJ

--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj


+-----------------------------+----------------------------------+
|   ken hewitt                |   Email TakeThisOuTken@spam@spam@spam@welwyn.demon.co.uk   |
+-----------------------------+----------------------------------+


--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj--

1996\04\15@131915 by Terry Yingling

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On Mon, 15 Apr 1996 09:06:23 +0100, you wrote:

>This is a MIME message
>
>--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj
>
>
>
>  ------- Forwarded message follows -------
>
>--_Turnpike_+b0SB(Wgeb,r?gI0fi:VHsV8seXyuGj51zBLJvBj
>Content-Description: Forwarded message: "Renewal of your subscription to the
> PICLIST list"
>Content-Type: message/rfc822
>
>Return-Path: <TakeThisOuTowner-PICLISTspamspammitvma.mit.edu>
>Received: from punt.demon.co.uk ([158.152.1.73]) by welwyn.demon.co.uk
> with SMTP id <KILLspamP0Ku7mDS2fcxAwmoKILLspamspamspamBeGonewelwyn.demon.co.uk>
> for <spamBeGonekenKILLspamspamwelwyn.demon.co.uk> ; Mon, 15 Apr 1996 08:41:06 +0100
>Received: from punt-1.mail.demon.net by mailstore for ken@spam@spamKILLspamwelwyn.demon.co.uk
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aa00821;
{Quote hidden}

Terry

1996\04\15@232300 by Harry B. Morton III

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{Quote hidden}

aa00821;
{Quote hidden}

1996\04\16@043632 by mbhskjg

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                               CONFIRM PICLIST


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
// JOB
CONFIRM PICLIST
// EOJ
smtp
**********************************************************************
#      john g koblanski. . . .    email spamjohn.koblanskispamspamman.ac.uk     #
#      the school of engineering  room                    it 108     #
#      university of  manchester  tel         (44) 0161 275 5709     #
#      manchester     england     fax         (44) 0161 275 4512     #
**********************************************************************

1996\04\16@082614 by Roger Books

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And here I get annoyed again.

If you are renewing your subscription to the PICLIST could you please follow
directions?  The message plainly says return it to "@spam@LISTSERVspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU",
not the PICLIST.

If you feel the need to flame or respond to this, Please, I'm asking nicely,
do so to me personnally, not the list.  A reply won't do it, that goes to
the list.  Change the to line to read ".....booksspam.....mail.state.fl.us"

Thank you for your support.

Roger

'unsubscribe piclist'
1996\04\17@103536 by Walter Crauwels

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Date    17/4/96
Subject unsubscribe piclist
From    Walter Crauwels
To      pic picc

                     Subject:                              Time:  15:42
 OFFICE MEMO         unsubscribe piclist                   Date:
17-04-1996
unsubscribe piclist
help

1996\04\17@105952 by Walter Crauwels

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face
Date    17/4/96
Subject unsubscribe piclist
>From    Walter Crauwels
To      pic picc

                     Subject:                              Time:  15:42
 OFFICE MEMO         unsubscribe piclist                   Date:
17-04-1996
unsubscribe piclist
help

'PICList 'rejected messages' problem'
1996\04\28@064818 by Mauricio.Culibk

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SendTo: spampiclistKILLspamspammitvma.mit.edu

Hi!

Exceuse me for bothering, but I just want to check if the problem of
'rejected messages' is gone, because Jory Bell said that I was the
'problem generator', so after few patches & updates to our mailer/mail
servers, I resubscribed....
Please, let me know if the problem persists, or, anyway, what's the
piclist status now.

Thank you for your (download)time,

Regards,

Mauricio CULIBRK

ARNE Computers d.o.o.
Cesta v Gorice 38                                   Phone:   +386 61 1233-171
61111 Ljubljana                                     Fax:     +386 61 1233-488
Slovenia                                            E-Mail:  RemoveMEmauricioRemoveMEspamarne.si
E U R O P E


'unsubscribe piclist'
1996\05\24@073942 by Walter Crauwels
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face
Date    24/5/96
Subject unsubscribe piclist
From    Walter Crauwels
To      pic pic

                     Subject:                              Time:  13:34
 OFFICE MEMO         unsubscribe piclist                   Date:
24-05-1996
unsubscribe piclist

'subscribe to the piclist'
1996\05\29@110814 by Sek Wing Siu

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face
I want to subscribe to the piclist. Thanks!
--
   ___       __             _____   _
  /   | ____/ / ___   ____ / ___/  (_) __  __
 / /| |/ __  / / _ \ / __ \\__ \  / / / / / /
/ ___ | /_/ / /  __// / / /__/ / / / / /_/ /
/_/  |_|__,_/  \___//_/ /_/____/ /_/  \__,_/
~~~~~~~~~KILLspamadens.....spamKILLspampo.eecs.berkeley.edu
        adenspam_OUTspamspam_OUTix.netcom.com~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


'PicList Survey Results!!!'
1996\06\01@011158 by Beach Tech
flavicon
face
The PicList user survey is complete, here are the results.

For those of you who didn't respond, or notice the survey, I recently posted a
survey to this list so that we could get a handle on who's in the group.

30 People responded!!!

The report is best viewed in a spreadsheet program.

If you have questions please email 'KILLspamdsellnerspam@spam@embay.com'.


Sales Pitch:
I did this survey as a test of E*Form, a program we developed to do survey and
forms entry via e-mail.  If you would like more information about E*Form send
me an e-mail or "http://www.skypoint.com/members/beachtec/", soon to be
"http://www.beachtech.com".


-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_1    1.1 Age =>



Type (N)
Count : 25
       Mean:   36.19
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       16      1       4       ****
       23      1       4       ****
       24      1       4       ****
       27      1       4       ****
       30      4       16      ****************
       31      1       4       ****
       32      5       20      ********************
       33      1       4       ****
       34      1       4       ****
       35      1       4       ****
       43      1       4       ****
       45      2       8       ********
       47      1       4       ****
       51      1       4       ****
       53      2       8       ********
       55      1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_2    1.2 Income =>



Type (N)
Count : 15
       Mean:   37727.27
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       1000    1       7       ******
       24000   1       7       ******
       30000   1       7       ******
       32000   1       7       ******
       35000   1       7       ******
       36000   2       13      *************
       40000   1       7       ******
       50000   4       27      **************************
       52000   1       7       ******
       55000   1       7       ******
       60000   1       7       ******

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_3    1.3 Married =>



Type (L)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       8       32      ********************************
       Y       17      68      ************************************************
********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_4    1.4 Kids =>



Type (N)
Count : 19
       Mean:   2.6
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       7       37      ************************************
       1       4       21      *********************
       2       6       32      *******************************
       3       1       5       *****
       7       1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_5    1.5 Total Years of Education =>



Type (N)
Count : 24
       Mean:   26.21
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       4       1       4       ****
       10      3       13      ************
       13      2       8       ********
       14      1       4       ****
       15      1       4       ****
       16      3       13      ************
       17      3       13      ************
       18      4       17      ****************
       19      1       4       ****
       22      1       4       ****
       24      1       4       ****
       33      1       4       ****
       47      1       4       ****
       115     1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_6    1.6 How many years of technical education =>



Type (N)
Count : 25
       Mean:   3.71
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       1       4       ****
       1       1       4       ****
       2       2       8       ********
       4       8       32      ********************************
       5       7       28      ****************************
       6       2       8       ********
       8       4       16      ****************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_7    1.7 Are you currently at work? (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       25      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F1_8    1.8 What is your job title: =>



Type (C)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Chief Technician        1       4       ****
       Computer Engineer       1       4       ****
       Computer Engineer/Part time business owner.     1       4       ****
       Department Head Organisation    1       4       ****
       Design engineer & CAD/CAM manager       1       4       ****
       Electrical enginner     1       4       ****
       Embedded Software Engineer      1       4       ****
       Eng manager     1       4       ****
       Farm Work       1       4       ****
       Microchip FAE   1       4       ****
       President       4       16      ****************
       Programmer      1       4       ****
       SENIOR PARTNER  1       4       ****
       Senior Software Engineer        2       8       ********
       Senior Technical Officer        1       4       ****
       System Administrator    1       4       ****
       Systems Administrator   1       4       ****
       Technical Officer       1       4       ****
       design engineer 2       8       ********
       design engineer/sys admin/gopher/       1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F2_1    2.1 How many people work at your site: =>



Type (N)
Count : 20
       Mean:   542.13
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       1       3       15      ***************
       2       2       10      **********
       3       2       10      **********
       4       2       10      **********
       5       1       5       *****
       6       1       5       *****
       10      1       5       *****
       30      1       5       *****
       70      1       5       *****
       80      1       5       *****
       100     1       5       *****
       120     1       5       *****
       500     1       5       *****
       3200    1       5       *****
       4001    1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F2_2    2.2 How many people work in your group: =>



Type (N)
Count : 20
       Mean:   20.5
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       1       5       *****
       1       5       25      *************************
       2       4       20      ********************
       4       3       15      ***************
       5       2       10      **********
       7       1       5       *****
       10      1       5       *****
       15      1       5       *****
       40      1       5       *****
       121     1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F2_3    2.3 What is your firm's primary product: =>



Type (C)
Count : 20
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Any electronics equipment       1       5       *****
       BUSINESS MACHINERY      1       5       *****
       Computer Relate Products        1       5       *****
       Computer Software       3       15      ***************
       Electronic Design Services      1       5       *****
       Electronic components   1       5       *****
       Electronics     1       5       *****
       Embedded Controllers    1       5       *****
       Machines        1       5       *****
       Maintenance     1       5       *****
       Printed wired board     1       5       *****
       Satellite Communications Equipment      1       5       *****
       Structural Change       1       5       *****
       Totalizator/pcb's.      1       5       *****
       design  1       5       *****
       fpga based computing devices    1       5       *****
       industrial controls     1       5       *****
       industrial laundry controllers  1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_1    3.1 Do you use PICs in your work: (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       10      40      ****************************************
       Y       15      60      ************************************************
************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_2    3.2 Do you use PICs for hobby projects: (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 26
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       6       23      ***********************
       Y       20      77
       ************************************************************************
****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_3    3.3 How many PICs do you (or your firm) consum per year (y/n) =>



Type (N)
Count : 22
       Mean:   1474.73
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       1       1       5       ****
       2       2       9       *********
       3       1       5       ****
       5       2       9       *********
       10      3       14      *************
       50      1       5       ****
       100     4       18      ******************
       200     1       5       ****
       1000    1       5       ****
       1020    1       5       ****
       1200    1       5       ****
       1500    1       5       ****
       2030    1       5       ****
       5000    1       5       ****
       10000   1       5       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_4    3.4 How many Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs) do you design per yea
r
(y/n) =>


Type (N)
Count : 19
       Mean:   11.55
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       3       16      ***************
       1       1       5       *****
       2       5       26      **************************
       3       2       11      **********
       5       2       11      **********
       6       1       5       *****
       10      1       5       *****
       12      1       5       *****
       15      1       5       *****
       23      1       5       *****
       50      1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_5    3.5 How many PIC projects do you complete per year =>



Type (N)
Count : 24
       Mean:   10.2
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       3       13      ************
       2       9       38      *************************************
       3       2       8       ********
       4       3       13      ************
       5       1       4       ****
       6       1       4       ****
       10      2       8       ********
       15      1       4       ****
       23      1       4       ****
       34      1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_6_1  "3.6 Please List other non PIC microprocessors in order of
preference, by family: Choice 1 =>

                                    "
Type (C)
Count : 24
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       61      3       13      ************
       6502    2       8       ********
       68000   1       4       ****
       68332   1       4       ****
       68HC11  1       4       ****
       8031    2       8       ********
       8051    4       17      ****************
       8088    1       4       ****
       80c31   1       4       ****
       80x86   1       4       ****
       Intel 8051      1       4       ****
       MC68HC11        1       4       ****
       Philips 51 derivatives  1       4       ****
       n/a     1       4       ****
       x86     1       4       ****
       z80     2       8       ********

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_6_2  "3.6 Please List other non PIC microprocessors in order of
preference, by family: Choice 2 =>

                                    "
Type (C)
Count : 18
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       54      3       17      ****************
       6502    1       6       *****
       68000   1       6       *****
       680x0   1       6       *****
       68HC705P9       1       6       *****
       68ch11  1       6       *****
       68hc11  2       11      ***********
       8048    1       6       *****
       8051    1       6       *****
       80X86   1       6       *****
       80c196  1       6       *****
       80x88   1       6       *****
       MCS51   1       6       *****
       Zilog Z86E04    1       6       *****
       n/a     1       6       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_6_3  "3.6 Please List other non PIC microprocessors in order of
preference, by family: Choice 3 =>

                                    "
Type (C)
Count : 10
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       -       1       10      **********
       64180   1       10      **********
       6805    1       10      **********
       680xx   1       10      **********
       68705   1       10      **********
       Atmel 89C2051   1       10      **********
       ST6225  1       10      **********
       Z80     2       20      ********************
       n/a     1       10      **********

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_6_4  "3.6 Please List other non PIC microprocessors in order of
preference, by family: Choice 4 =>

                                    "
Type (C)
Count : 6
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       -       1       17      ****************
       ...     1       17      ****************
       6800    1       17      ****************
       Motorola 68HC705        1       17      ****************
       TMS320C40       1       17      ****************
       n/a     1       17      ****************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F3_6_5  "3.6 Please List other non PIC microprocessors in order of
preference, by family: Choice 5 =>

                                    "
Type (C)
Count : 5
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       -       1       20      ********************
       8051    1       20      ********************
       DEC LSI/11      1       20      ********************
       Mitsubishi 37702        1       20      ********************
       n/a     1       20      ********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_1    4.1 What Programmer do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       ALL07 (Hi-Lo)   1       4       ****
       "COMPIC-1, COMPIC-5X, COMPIC-PRO"       1       4       ****
       David Tait's design     1       4       ****
       "DonTronics, Newfound"  1       4       ****
       EE Tools        1       4       ****
       ITU     1       4       ****
       ITU PIC1        1       4       ****
       Micro Burner    1       4       ****
       Microchip       3       12      ************
       PIC16Cxx-PGM/Microchip 16B1     1       4       ****
       PIC84PGM (from Don McKenzie)    1       4       ****
       PICSTART 16b    2       8       ********
       PICSTART-16C    1       4       ****
       Parallax        2       8       ********
       PicStart 16C    1       4       ****
       ProMate 1       4       ****
       "Promate,"      1       4       ****
       Self-Built      1       4       ****
       "home-made, never works :-("    1       4       ****
       nedham emp20    1       4       ****
       promate / picstar /     1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_2    4.2 What Compiler do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 19
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       -       1       5       *****
       "Borland C++, MPC, MPLABC"      1       5       *****
       ByteCraft C     1       5       *****
       CCS PCM 1       5       *****
       MPASM 1.30      1       5       *****
       MPC     1       5       *****
       Microchip       3       16      ***************
       NEVER   1       5       *****
       "Parallax, MicroEngineering PBasic"     1       5       *****
       Various 1       5       *****
       byte craft      1       5       *****
       nil     1       5       *****
       none    5       26      **************************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_3    4.3 What Assembler do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 24
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       "Factory assembler (INTEL, THOMSON)"    1       4       ****
       MPASM   11      46      *********************************************
       MPASM 1.30      1       4       ****
       MPASM/PASM      1       4       ****
       "MPASMWIN, MPASM"       1       4       ****
       Microchip       3       13      ************
       PASM    1       4       ****
       "Parralax, MicroChip"   1       4       ****
       Various 1       4       ****
       none    2       8       ********
       parallax        1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_4    4.4 What Debugger do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 17
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       (MPSIM/nil)     1       6       *****
       MPLAB-SIM       1       6       *****
       MPSIM 5.20      1       6       *****
       MPSIM/PSIM      1       6       *****
       Microchip       3       18      *****************
       Personnal WINDOWS program       1       6       *****
       Various 1       6       *****
       avoid them      1       6       *****
       mpsim   4       24      ***********************
       none    3       18      *****************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_5    4.5 What Prototype boards do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 20
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       -       1       5       *****
       ...     1       5       *****
       Depew   3       15      ***************
       DonTronics      1       5       *****
       I do it myself  1       5       *****
       Micro Labs      1       5       *****
       custom  1       5       *****
       custom design   1       5       *****
       home made       1       5       *****
       mine    1       5       *****
       my own  2       10      **********
       none    3       15      ***************
       own     2       10      **********
       veroboard/protoboard/wirewrap   1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F4_6    4.6 What In-Circuit-Emulators do you use =>



Type (C)
Count : 19
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       I use ONLY simulator    1       5       *****
       ICEPIC  1       5       *****
       MPLAB-PICMASTER 1       5       *****
       MPSIM   1       5       *****
       PICMASTER       1       5       *****
       Parallax        1       5       *****
       clearview xx    1       5       *****
       nil     1       5       *****
       none    10      53      ************************************************
****
       own     1       5       *****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_1_1  What OS do you use for PIC development: 5.1.1 UNIX =>



Type (L)
Count : 8
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       7       88
       ************************************************************************
*******
********
       Y       1       13      ************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_1_2  What OS do you use for PIC development: 5.1.2 Windows =>



Type (L)
Count : 22
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       9       *********
       Y       20      91
       ************************************************************************
*******
***********

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_1_3  What OS do you use for PIC development: 5.1.3 DOS =>



Type (L)
Count : 22
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       22      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_1_4  What OS do you use for PIC development: 5.1.4 Macintosh =>



Type (L)
Count : 10
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       7       70      ************************************************
**********************
       Y       3       30      ******************************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_1_5  What OS do you use for PIC development: 5.1.5 Other =>



Type (C)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       (specify)       22      88
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********
       (specify) OS/2 Warp     1       4       ****
       (specify)n      1       4       ****
       (specify)none   1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_2_1  What OS do you use on a daily basis (check all that apply): 5.2.
1
UNIX =>


Type (L)
Count : 8
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       25      *************************
       Y       6       75
       ************************************************************************
***

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_2_2  What OS do you use on a daily basis (check all that apply): 5.2.
2
Windows =>


Type (L)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       25      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_2_3  What OS do you use on a daily basis (check all that apply): 5.2.
3
DOS =>


Type (L)
Count : 18
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       18      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_2_4  5What OS do you use on a daily basis (check all that apply): .2.
4
Macintosh =>


Type (L)
Count : 9
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       4       44      ********************************************
       Y       5       56      ************************************************
*******

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F5_2_5  What OS do you use on a daily basis (check all that apply): 5.2.
5
Other =>


Type (C)
Count : 26
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       (specify)       22      85
       ************************************************************************
*******
*****
       (specify) OS/2 Warp     1       4       ***
       (specify)n      1       4       ***
       (specify)none   1       4       ***
       VMS     1       4       ***

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F6_1    6.1 Do you consider yourself an inventor? (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 25
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       7       28      ****************************
       Y       18      72
       ************************************************************************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F6_2    6.2 Do you market your own products? (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 26
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       12      46      **********************************************
       Y       14      54      ************************************************
*****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F6_3    "6.3 Do you have products that you would like to market, but hav
en't?
(y/n) =>

                         "
Type (L)
Count : 16
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       4       25      *************************
       Y       12      75
       ************************************************************************
***

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F7_1    7.1 How many times per month do you read this list =>



Type (N)
Count : 21
       Mean:   228.5
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       3       3       14      **************
       6       1       5       ****
       20      4       19      *******************
       21      1       5       ****
       25      1       5       ****
       30      7       33      *********************************
       40      1       5       ****
       50      1       5       ****
       60      1       5       ****
       2030    1       5       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F7_2    7.2 How many times per per month do you pose a question =>



Type (N)
Count : 23
       Mean:   171
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       0       8       35      **********************************
       1       9       39      ***************************************
       2       2       9       ********
       3       1       4       ****
       5       2       9       ********
       1015    1       4       ****

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F7_3    7.3 Do you find the responses helpful? (y/n) =>



Type (L)
Count : 23
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       4       ****
       Y       22      96
       ************************************************************************
*******
****************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_1    8 Hobbies: 8.1 Biking =>



Type (L)
Count : 15
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       15      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_2    8 Hobbies: 8.2 Camping =>



Type (L)
Count : 10
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       10      **********
       Y       9       90
       ************************************************************************
*******
***********

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_3    8 Hobbies: 8.3 Computer Games =>



Type (L)
Count : 12
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       8       ********
       Y       11      92
       ************************************************************************
*******
************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_4    8 Hobbies: 8.4 Cooking =>



Type (L)
Count : 10
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       10      **********
       Y       9       90
       ************************************************************************
*******
***********

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_5    8 Hobbies: 8.5 Electronics =>



Type (L)
Count : 23
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       23      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_6    8 Hobbies: 8.6 Family =>



Type (L)
Count : 17
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       Y       17      **
       ************************************************************************
*******
*********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_7    8 Hobbies: 8.7 Home Automation =>



Type (L)
Count : 17
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       6       *****
       Y       16      94
       ************************************************************************
*******
***************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_8    8 Hobbies: 8.8 Home Remodeling =>



Type (L)
Count : 14
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       7       *******
       Y       13      93
       ************************************************************************
*******
*************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_9    8 Hobbies: 8.9 Lounge Lizard =>



Type (L)
Count : 9
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       3       33      *********************************
       Y       6       67      ************************************************
******************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_10   8 Hobbies: 8.10 Metal working =>



Type (L)
Count : 10
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       20      ********************
       Y       8       80
       ************************************************************************
*******
*

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_11   8 Hobbies: 8.11 Model Airplanes =>



Type (L)
Count : 8
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       25      *************************
       Y       6       75
       ************************************************************************
***

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_12   8 Hobbies: 8.12 Model Rockets =>



Type (L)
Count : 5
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       40      ****************************************
       Y       3       60      ************************************************
************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_13   8 Hobbies: 8.13 Music =>



Type (L)
Count : 14
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       14      **************
       Y       12      86
       ************************************************************************
*******
******

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_14   8 Hobbies: 8.14 Skating =>



Type (L)
Count : 7
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       2       29      ****************************
       Y       5       71      ************************************************
***********************

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_15   8 Hobbies: 8.15 Skiing =>



Type (L)
Count : 6
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       3       50      ************************************************
**
       Y       3       50      ************************************************
**

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Field   F8_16   8 Hobbies: 8.16 Wood working =>



Type (L)
Count : 16
       Value   Count   Percent Graph
       Empty   0       0
       N       1       6       ******
       Y       15      94
       ************************************************************************
*******
**************
=====================================
Doug Sellner
Beach Tech
4131 Vincent Avenue South
Minneapolis, MN 55410
VOICE: (612) 924-9193
FAX:   (612) 926-1145
E-MAIL: @spam@dsellnerRemoveMEspamembay.com

'Enough, Dammit! (was: "Re: PicList Survey Results!'
1996\06\01@025121 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Doug:

How many badly-formatted copies of your survey results are you going
to send to the list?

Stop, already.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwd@spam@spamEraseMEix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'Sharing code with PICLIST members'
1996\06\03@060635 by David Tait

flavicon
face
Wynn Rostek wrote:

> I can send code if anyone is really interested.

If, like Wynn, anyone has some PIC-related code they want to share,
please feel free to send me a copy via e-mail (as a MIME enclosure or
UUencoded) and I'll make it available on my FTP area:

ftp://ftp.mcc.ac.uk/pub/micro-controllers/PIC

Please warn me if you are going to send large (> few hundred K) files.

David
--
spam_OUTdavid.taitspam_OUTspamRemoveMEman.ac.uk

1996\06\03@082752 by Wynn Rostek

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face
At 11:09 AM 6/3/96 +0100, you wrote:
>Wynn Rostek wrote:
>
>> I can send code if anyone is really interested.
>
>If, like Wynn, anyone has some PIC-related code they want to share,
>please feel free to send me a copy via e-mail (as a MIME enclosure or
>UUencoded) and I'll make it available on my FTP area:
>
>ftp://ftp.mcc.ac.uk/pub/micro-controllers/PIC
>
>Please warn me if you are going to send large (> few hundred K) files.
>
>David
>--
>RemoveMEdavid.taitspam.....man.ac.uk
>
>

; FILE: bunny.asm
;
; 11/30/95 Started work on this file     ...WAR...
;
; Simple bunny controller for 16C84




; Assemble with MPASM /e /l /rDEC /p16C84 bunny.asm




       include "p16cxx.inc"
       include "p16cxxd.inc"




; Set config fuses to 0x1a
;
; HS oscillator (6 MHz Xtal)
; Watchdog timer disabled
; Power-up timer enabled
; Code protection off




; For code at 10 WPM, each unit is 120 milliseconds long.
; This is 90 cycles of a 750 Hz tone.




; our variables
cnt     equ     0x0c
cyc     equ     0x0d
units   equ     0x0e
tmp     equ     0x0f




       org   0x000         ; The main line code starts here

; First we do all required initialization

Start

; Set port A as output
       bsf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 1
       movlw   0
       movwf   TRISA

; Enable port B pullups
       bcf     OPTION_REG,NOT_RBPU

; Switch back to bank 0
       bcf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 0

; Ready for main loop
Top
       bsf     RA1     ;key the transmitter

       movlw   41      ;wait 5 seconds
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit

       call    id      ;send ID

       movlw   131     ;wait 15.75 seconds
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit

       call    id      ;send ID

       movlw   41      ;wait 5 seconds
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit

       bcf     RA1     ;unkey the transmitter

       movlw   250     ;wait 60 seconds
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit
       movlw   250
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit

       goto    Top




; Send an ID message
id      call    dash
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    spc
       call    dot
       call    ps
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    dash
       call    spc
       call    dash
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    spc
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    spc
       call    dash
       call    dash
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    spc
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    spc
       call    dash
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    dash
       call    ps
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    dot
       call    spc
       call    dash
       call    dash
       call    dash
       call    spc
       call    dash
       call    dot
       call    dot
       call    dash
       call    ps
       return




; Send a dot
dot     movlw   1
       movwf   units
       call    tnunit
       movlw   1
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit
       return




;Send a dash
dash    movlw   3
       movwf   units
       call    tnunit
       movlw   1
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit
       return




;Finish a space
spc     movlw   2
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit
       return




;Finish a pause
ps      movlw   6
       movwf   units
       call    dlunit
       return




; Delay units * 90 cycles of 750 Hz tone
dlunit  movlw   90
       movwf   cyc
dlhi    nop
       bcf     RA0             ;set tone bit low
       call    haf             ;wait a bit

       nop                     ;waste 8 cycles for symmetry
       movlw   2
       movwf   tmp
dlmid   decfsz  tmp,1
       goto    dlmid

       bcf     RA0             ;set tone bit low
       call    haf             ;wait a bit

       decfsz  cyc,1           ;one less cycle to send
       goto    dlpad           ;do another cycle

       decfsz  units,1         ;Another unit done
       goto    dlunit
       return

dlpad   nop                     ;4 cycles for padding
       nop
       goto    dlhi




; Send units * 90 cycles of 750 Hz tone
tnunit  movlw   90
       movwf   cyc
tnhi    nop
       bsf     RA0             ;set tone bit high
       call    haf             ;wait a bit

       nop                     ;waste 8 cycles for symmetry
       movlw   2
       movwf   tmp
tnmid   decfsz  tmp,1
       goto    tnmid

       bcf     RA0             ;set tone bit low
       call    haf             ;wait a bit

       decfsz  cyc,1           ;one less cycle to send
       goto    tnpad           ;do another cycle

       decfsz  units,1         ;Another unit done
       goto    tnunit
       return

tnpad   nop                     ;4 cycles for padding
       nop
       goto    tnhi



; delay for half a cycle of 750 Hz

; A 750 HZ tone is 1.333333 milliseconds
; in duration.  This means each half cycle
; of the tone is 666.6666 microseconds.
; Since I'm using a 6.0 MHz Xtal, this
; is 1000 CPU cycles per tone half cycle.

; Since the routine that calls this to generate
; the tone takes 11 CPU cycles per Tone half
; cycle, we need to burn up 989 CPU cycles
; in this routine.

; This routine takes 13 + ((K -1) * 4) cycles
; where K is the argument for the movlw
; instruction.

haf
       nop
       nop
       nop
       movlw   245
       movwf   cnt
luphaf
       nop
       decfsz  cnt,1
       goto    luphaf
       goto    lupxt
lupxt   nop
       return




       end








; FILE: ddf1.asm




; Ducky direction finder controller for 16C84




;
; 12/07/95 Started work on this file     ...WAR...
;




; Assemble with MPASM /e /l /rDEC /p16C84 ddf1.asm




; RA0/RA1 are used to drive antenna switching.
; RA2/RA3 are used to drive phase indicators.
; RA4 is the audio input.




       include "p16c84.inc"




; Set config fuses to 0x1a
;
; HS oscillator (6 MHz Xtal)
; Watchdog timer disabled
; Power-up timer enabled
; Code protection off




; with a 6 Mhz  Xtal, each cycle is 66.667 usec long
; for a basic 400 Hz tone, the cycle is 2.5 msec.
; This means a half cycle is 1.25 msec, or 1875 CPU cycles.




; our variables
cnt     equ     0x0c
tmp     equ     0x0d




       org   0x000         ; The main line code starts here

; First we do all required initialization

Start

; Set low nybble of port A as output
       bsf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 1
       movlw   0xf0
       movwf   TRISA

; Switch back to bank 0
       bcf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 0

; Ready for main loop
Top     bsf     PORTA,0         ;Turn right antenna on
       bcf     PORTA,1         ;Turn left antenna off
       bcf     PORTA,2
       btfsc   PORTA,4
       bsf     PORTA,2
       call    haf             ;wait a bit
       nop                     ;Burn 2 cycles for symmetry
       nop
       bsf     PORTA,1         ;Turn left antenna on
       bcf     PORTA,0         ;Turn right antenna off
       bcf     PORTA,3
       btfsc   PORTA,4
       bsf     PORTA,3
       call    haf             ;wait a bit
       goto    Top




; delay for half a cycle of 400 Hz.

; A 400 HZ tone is 2.5 milliseconds
; in duration.  This means each half cycle
; of the tone is 1.25 milliseconds.
; Since I'm using a 6.0 MHz Xtal, this
; is 1875 CPU cycles per tone half cycle.

; Since the routine that calls this to generate
; the tone takes 9 CPU cycles per Tone half
; cycle, we need to burn up 1866 CPU cycles
; in this routine.

; This routine takes 10 + ((K - 1) * 16) cycles
; where K is the argument for the movlw
; instruction.

haf

; we need an extra 4 cycles of padding
; to get the time to come out right
       nop
       nop
       nop
       nop

; now we run the main loop 116 times

       movlw   117
       movwf   cnt

hafl    decfsz  cnt,1
       goto    dowt
       return

dowt    call    dly
       goto    hafl




; Burn up 9 cycles.

dly     movlw   2
       movwf   tmp
dlp     decfsz  tmp,1
       goto    dlp
       return




       end
Wynn Rostek
spamwar@spam@spampalmnet.net
wynnTakeThisOuTspampitcairn.ksc.nasa.gov
.....wynn.rostekspamTakeThisOuTksc.nasa.gov

Other Email addresses available if you really need 'em...

'PicList Survey Results!!!'
1996\06\03@094602 by Wireless Scientific

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face
At 11:16 AM 6/2/96, jory bell wrote:
>consultants. These rates are currently $150/hour per consultant with a
>1-hour minimum per consultant.
>
>Sincerely,
>Jory Bell

getting a little hostle there Jory. Do browser ads burn you up as well?

'Sharing code with PICLIST members'
1996\06\03@124219 by David Tait

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face
Sorry, I meant send the code as _private_ e-mail :-).  Thanks anyway.

So far I have Wynn Rostek's files, Daniel Henzulea's "sonapic" package
and Bojan Dobaj's crippleware that recently turned up on the PICLIST
(plus some other stuff related to PIC programming).  If you are
thinking of adding to the collection it would be a good idea to
include a short description of what your code does or at least a
one-line description to update my table of contents.

David
--
EraseMEdavid.taitspamKILLspamman.ac.uk
ftp://ftp.mcc.ac.uk/pub/micro-controllers/PIC
http://www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/piclinks.html

'PicList Survey Results!!!'
1996\06\03@141522 by myke predko

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face
I applaud Jory's actions, because I feel that he took the correct action
based on the number of times the survey's results were posted.  Yeah so the
original purpose of the survey and response was to demo a software product,
I would probably have objected if action was taken after the first time the
results were posted.

I felt the results would be useful for some of the people on PICLIST who are
in the business of selling things and this would give them demographics of
who their potential customers were.  But I think I saw results four times,
each time with an ad saying what a wonderful product this internet survey
tool was.

Myke
>At 11:16 AM 6/2/96, jory bell wrote:
>>consultants. These rates are currently $150/hour per consultant with a
>>1-hour minimum per consultant.
>>
>>Sincerely,
>>Jory Bell
>
>getting a little hostle there Jory. Do browser ads burn you up as well?
>
>
Myke

"We're Starfleet officers, weird is part of the job."

Capt. Catherine Janeway

'"Subscription to PICLIST"'
1996\06\18@160401 by fragui

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---------------------------
i want to "subscribe PICLIST"


'PICLIST Digest - 30 Jun 1996 to 1 Jul 1996'
1996\07\02@031456 by Bill Bau
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face
Is the MPASM assembler simply a newer version of the older PICALC?  I
am just starting to learn microchip programming and would appreciate if
anyone knows of any beginner books other than "A Beginners Guide To The
Microchip PIC" which I already have.  Thanks
Bill Bau
jasarahEraseMEspamix.netcom.com

1996\07\02@040958 by fastfwd

face
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Bill Bau <EraseMEPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Is the MPASM assembler simply a newer version of the older PICALC?

Bill:

Yeah... MPASM's about 3 or 4 years newer.  If you don't have it, you
should definitely get it.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - TakeThisOuTfastfwdspamTakeThisOuTix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'PICLIST Digest - 5 Jul 1996 to 6 Jul 1996'
1996\07\08@013543 by Bill Bau

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You wrote:
{Quote hidden}

days ago.  Is there something else I need to do to continue to be on
the list?
Bill Bau
RemoveMEjasarahRemoveMEspamTakeThisOuTix.netcom.com

'Your removal from the PICLIST list'
1996\07\15@153827 by Dave Duchesneau

picon face
>Mon, 15 Jul 1996 12:44:19
>
>You  have  been  removed  from  the  PICLIST  list  (pic  microcontroller
>discussion list) by Jory Bell <joryTakeThisOuTspam@spam@MIT.EDU>.
>
>

Say what?!

Why?

I get all my mail at CRL, with no problems, and have for years!

Please resubscribe me, and don't remove me again.  If there is a problem,
I'd appreciate being informed as to its existence and nature, BEFORE any
action is taken.

How on earth can we ask an ISP to resolve a problem without knowing anything
about it? If you've an apparent mail bounce problem, you owe it to the
person to see if they actually get the mail or not. I've never had a report
of trouble from anyone, and would be very interested to see a copy of a
returned mail header, since I've been getting tons list mail here daily....




Dave Duchesneau
Short Order Electronics
davedTakeThisOuTspamspamBeGonecrl.com
spam71604.226TakeThisOuTspamcompuserve.com
(707) 585-3465

1996\07\17@212137 by Onat Ahmet

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face
       >>You  have  been  removed  from  the  PICLIST  list  (pic  microcontrol
ler
       >>discussion list) by Jory Bell <.....joryspamspamBeGoneMIT.EDU>.
       >Why?
       >I get all my mail at CRL, with no problems, and have for years!
       >
       >Please resubscribe me, and don't remove me again.  If there is a proble
m,
       >I'd appreciate being informed as to its existence and nature, BEFORE an
y
       >action is taken.
       >
       Get a grip Dave. If you are unhappy with the piclist service start your
own
       list (I mean that.. it's not that hard to start one, and then you'll hav
e
       the joys of maintainence).


Is it not possible to create a Usenet newsgroup on the PIC? There is
certainly enough traffic here to qualify it as a Usenet group. We would
not have to worry about boncing mail too... (Reading the above,
I think that both sides are right to a certain extent...)

Ahmet ONAT

| Ahmet ONAT  Kyoto Univ. Japan                                 |
| E-mail    : .....onatTakeThisOuTspamEraseMEkuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp                           |
| WWW page  : http://turbine.kuee.kyoto-u.ac.jp/staff/onat.html |
|             My 6 leg walker, RC airplanes & more in home page |


'set piclist dig'
1996\08\18@213321 by John Offord
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** Proprietary **

set piclist dig

'Appreciation for PICLIST'
1996\08\21@101933 by Dana Frank Raymond

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Over the last year or two that I've subscribed to the PICLIST I have
received assistance from many people here. I just wanted to say THANK YOU to
everyone involved.

The PICLIST and its members are a wonderful resource. One that I certanly
appreciate. Again, thank you!

Regards, Dana Frank Raymond
RemoveMEdfrspamspamKILLspamicom.ca


'PICLIST Digest - 16 Sep 1996 to 17 Sep 1996'
1996\09\18@055012 by Mujimpa
flavicon
>374 is a perfect square.  How many fingers does a Martian Have?


thsuy ee muskim thia porju kemana toskho cijam 101110110 yoharmo ee usmon -
co muskimin gunie thia whumu 101 >> 1111 soughi thia muskim jamma thi.

... = 1111



Mujimpa


STOPspamMujimpaEraseMEspampic.mars

1996\09\18@072510 by liebchen

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face
Mujimpa wrote:
>
> >374 is a perfect square.  How many fingers does a Martian Have?
>
> thsuy ee muskim thia porju kemana toskho cijam 101110110 yoharmo ee usmon -
> co muskimin gunie thia whumu 101 >> 1111 soughi thia muskim jamma thi.
>
> ... = 1111
>
> Mujimpa
>
> MujimpaspamBeGonespampic.mars

Hey, that's not fair!!  Martians are insiders and are not
allowed to take part in this competition!

Wolfram

--

+------------------------------------------------+
! Wolfram Liebchen, Forschungsinstitut fŸr Optik !
! liebchen@spam@spamffo.fgan.de                    !
+------------------------------------------------+

'PICLIST Digest - 16 Sep 1996 to 17 Sep 1996 -Reply'
1996\09\18@084434 by Mark Jurras

flavicon
face
I hope this doesn't start a "Don't use Martian, Venusian or Spanish on this
list" thread again.

>>> Mujimpa <spam_OUTMujimpaspamspamPIC.MARS> 18 September 1996  5:49 am >>>
>374 is a perfect square.  How many fingers does a Martian Have?


thsuy ee muskim thia porju kemana toskho cijam 101110110 yoharmo ee usmon -
co muskimin gunie thia whumu 101 >> 1111 soughi thia muskim jamma thi.

... = 1111



Mujimpa


Mujimpaspam_OUTspamRemoveMEpic.mars

'PICLIST Digest - 22 Sep 1996 to 23 Sep 1996'
1996\09\24@012056 by Luiz Marques

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Patrick wrote:
> Date:    Tue, 24 Sep 1996 08:43:08 +1000
> From:    Patrick Hanson <spamP.HansonspamBeGonespamUWS.EDU.AU>
> Subject: Connecting multiple rs232 lines together
>
> I am hoping somebody out there in PIC land may be able to help me.
> I am currently working on a simple home automation system using multiple
> 16C84's (max of 10) fitted with rs232 trancievers as slaves and a PC as
> the master controller. I am not sure how to go about connecting all the TXD
> lines on the slaves to the PC without causing possible conflicts. It is
> intend

Gerard Chew wrote:
>
>  What I'm looking for is like, ok, you connect one pin of the
> Stamp to the Tx, one to the Rx and then ...etc?  What about some sample  code
> to tie the whole thing together?


I sent the following message a few days ago to Mr. Gerard

My 75156 parts just arrived to me but I did not stick them to my prototipe
because I have been busy with overdue projects for my work. However I'll try a
sketch to you (in a robot style!!!?).

Pin 8:  to +5 Vdc
Pin 5:  to GND
Pins 6/7: to RS-485 link (twisted pair) (field wiring)
Pin 1:  Rx Data, to a input port pin of STAMP
Pin 4:  Tx Data, to a output port pin of STAMP
Pin 3:  TX Enable, to another output port pin of STAMP
Pin 2:  Rx Enable, to another output port pin of STAMP

This requires four pins of STAMPs  (too much)
A more economical approach should be tie pin 3 and 2 toghether to a output of
STAMP. This signal means: 0 -> STAMP receiving  or  1 -> STAMP transminting.

If you want to reduce again the pin counts (in STAMP), tie pins 1 and 4
toghether to a STAMP pin. This STAMP port shall be bi-directional, in another
words, this pin will be output when STAMP is transmiting and will be input when
STAMP is receiving. It's easely implemented with tri-state capabilities of
STAMP.

Two pins looks like:

------                             ---------------
     |output pin (flow ctrl) 2,3 |               |6          RS-485 Link
     |---------------------------|               |------------ DATA
STAMP |                           |    75156      |
     |in/out pin (data)      1,4 |               |7
     |---------------------------|               |------------ /DATA
     |                           |               |
------                             ---------------


Sorry I don't write one line of source code yet! But in slave STAMP you must be
in receive mode *listening* to master queries (pins 2,3 -> 0 and pins 1,4 ->
input to STAMP).

I foud National Semi DS75176B at $1 in 500 qty

When I hookup my prototipe I will tell you if it worked out.

I suppose this arrangement work without problems but I'm not sure

Also, I'm interested in a one master many slaves simple protocol. Any pointer?

Luiz

'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This'
1996\09\26@023615 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
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Dudes:

As many of you know, the PICLIST was started in early 1994 by Jory
Bell, who's been operating, maintaining, and (occasionally)
moderating it since then.  If you subscribe to other internet mailing
lists, you know that this one is particularly well-run; Jory's
managed to make the list a truly valuable resource for all of us, and
we all owe him a huge debt of gratitude.

There are now over 1,000 subscribers to the list, and it's becoming
increasingly difficult for Jory to run it with his existing equipment.
Last week, as you know, he even considered dissolving the list
because the error traffic generated by the list server had grown to
the point where it was overloading his 8-year-old Macintosh SE.

That short-term problem has been solved, at least temporarily, but
it's not hard to foresee further problems which might not be handled
so easily.  For example, MIT currently provides the list service for
free, but only because Jory once performed some consulting work for
the university.  Every so often, the university notifies Jory that
they're going to pull his free account, and he's only managed to keep
it THIS long through the assistance of an MIT faculty member who's
been lobbying on his behalf.

Sooner or later, though, the MIT account will go away and Jory will
be faced with the prospect of having to invest not only his time,
but a significant sum of money in order to keep the list running.

Here's the deal:

If we can collect some money for Jory, there'll be a greater chance
that he'll be able to keep the list running no matter what happens
with his MIT account.  If we collect enough, Jory may even be able
to set up a PICLIST web site, list-member FTP site, etc.

I've set up an account at a local bank specifically for this PICLIST
Fund.  The bank doesn't want to receive checks directly, so if you'd
like to contribute, please send checks only (I don't want to deal
with cash or credit cards) to the following address:

   The PICLIST Fund
   c/o Fast Forward Engineering
   1984 Casablanca Court
   Vista, CA  92083-5043
   USA

IMPORTANT:  Checks must be made out to "Andrew Warren and Jory
           Bell"; BOTH of our signatures will be required in order
           for any funds to be withdrawn from the account, so this
           shouldn't make anyone nervous.

           Please include your e-mail address with your check.

           If you want your donation to be anonymous (as far as the
           rest of the list is concerned), please include a note to
           that effect.

To ensure that everything is aboveboard, I'll be doing the following:

   1.  Whenever a donation is received, I'll assign a "contribution
   number" to it and notify the contributor in private e-mail that
   his donation has been received.

   2.  Every two weeks, I'll post a summary of the Fund activity.
   This summary will detail EVERY donation, including the
   contribution number and (unless you've told me otherwise) each
   contributor's name.

   3.  I'll be happy to tell any potential contributor how to get
   in touch with an officer at the bank where the PICLIST Fund
   account is located... Just send me private e-mail.

At this time, I expect that we'll keep the account open for only six
months or so, then close it and send all the cash to Jory Bell.  If
we end up keeping the account longer (beyond the April 15th
income-tax deadline), we'll probably withdraw the appropriate tax
from the account.  ASIDE FROM THAT ONE POSSIBLE WITHDRAWAL, NO MONEY
WILL BE WITHDRAWN FOR ANY PURPOSE UNTIL THE ACCOUNT IS CLOSED.  I'm
going to be managing the fund on my own time; NO PORTION of your
donations will go to me.

Now, everyone CAN contribute, but no one HAS to.  Donations are
ABSOLUTELY voluntary; you won't gain any personal privileges if you
donate, and you won't lose any if you don't.  No one will think any
less of you if you choose not to contribute to the fund, and if you
don't contribute, the list (for as long as it's operational) will
continue to be available to you for free, as it always has been.

I've given some thought to "suggested donation amounts".  If you
want to contribute but don't think these amounts are appropriate,
please send whatever amount makes you comfortable (and, if you think
the following suggestions are WILDLY inappropriate, please let me
know in private e-mail).  Do give the following some thought,
though:

   SUGGESTED DONATION AMOUNTS:

   FRIEND           If you're a Student, you should be able to
   (Student):  $10  afford $10.  This is less than the cost of
                    one audio compact disc or a tank of gasoline,
                    and it's not much more than the quantity-one
                    retail price of a PIC16C84.

   FRIEND           If a Student can afford $10, anyone with a job
   (Employed): $30  should be able to afford $30.

   PATRON:     $50  A decent programming reference book costs at
                    least this much.  If you've received as much
                    useful information from the list as you might
                    reasonably expect to find in the average
                    textbook and want to show your gratitude, this
                    is the way.

   GOD:        $75  Many of us have actually profited financially
                    from the list, either through help that other
                    list-members gave us with our commercial
                    products or through sales of development
                    software and hardware that we've advertised on
                    the list.  If you fall into this category, a $75
                    donation shouldn't significantly affect your
                    balance sheet.

ONE MORE IMPORTANT NOTE:

   I'm going to ensure that all the collected donations go directly
   to Jory Bell, but I'm making NO PROMISES as to the eventual use
   to which he puts it.  Even Jory doesn't yet know exactly what
   he'll spend the money on.

   In fact, Jory may decide to use the money to take a trip to
   Tahiti or something.  Personally, I don't care -- I figure that,
   after all the work he's put into the list, he DESERVES a vacation
   -- but if you're the type of person who wants to know PRECISELY
   what your dnation will be used for, this may be an issue.

   If that's the case, please send your suggestions for possible
   uses of the money to me in private e-mail.  I'll summaarize the
   suggestions I've received in my bi-weekly reports and, of
   course, pass them on to Jory.

I've tried to think of everything here, especially in the area of
assuring everyone that the PICLIST Fund will be managed honestly and
responsibly, but if you think I've omitted anything or if you have
any other suggestions, please feel free to tell me in private e-mail.

Remember:  Donations are COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - spamfastfwdRemoveMEspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\09\27@122606 by Steve Davidson

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Andrew, Jory, and List;

I will be glade to donate for the list and any trips Jory wants to take,
I find the list VERY VALUABLE....but, the direction seems a little soft.
How about setting up a commercial account on one of the local commercial
servers.  Most of these will provide a e-mail, web page, and required
storage.  This would take a lot of the load off Jory, be transferable if
Jory decides to retire, etc.  Jory, acting as the list SA, should be paid
some amount or give extra privileges to compensate for his time.  I would
imagine this would run in the $50- 100/month range.  Companies, such as
Microchip, could donate to this service if they like, but they get no
control of any sort in doing so. With a thousand users you are talking
about a couple buck a year each, and the list has no obligations to
anyone.  i.e. it could switch servers if their is any problems.  By
taking donated money and buying hardware you will eventually end up in
some sort of a "disagreement" when changes need to be made.  Try to make
it a hands off type operation that can be easily passed on to others.  I
know in the DC area you can get your own web page, couple meg of storage,
internet connection and e-mail for $15 - 25 month.  I can check here in
the Boulder area, but I'm not much of a SA, so it would be best to find
something in Jory's  or Andrew's area.

This is a suggestion and I will be glade to donate on what ever the final
solution is.

You guys are doing great,

Steve



--- On Wed, 25 Sep 1996 23:40:01 -0800  Andrew Warren
<KILLspamfastfwdspam_OUTspamspam_OUTix.netcom.com> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

-----------------End of Original Message-----------------

-------------------------------------
E-mail: spamBeGonesdavidsonspamspamspamBeGoneits.bldrdoc.gov
Steven Davidson
Dept. of Comm.  NTIA-ITS.N2
325 Broadway
Boulder, CO  80303
W 303-497-3411  FAX 5995
-------------------------------------

'The PICLIST Fund FAQ'
1996\09\28@034643 by fastfwd

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Frequently-Asked Questions regarding the PICLIST Fund
-----------------------------------------------------

This FAQ is HUGE... How often are you going to be filling my mailbox
with copies of it?

   Approximately once every two weeks while the Fund is open, then
   never again.  The PICLIST generates 20-50 messages per day, so
   this FAQ should represent only a very small percentage of the
   total list traffic.

Why do we need the PICLIST Fund?

   The PICLIST was started in early 1994 by Jory Bell, who's been
   operating, maintaining, and (occasionally) moderating it since
   then.  If you subscribe to other internet mailing lists, you know
   that this one is particularly well-run; Jory's managed to make
   the list a truly valuable resource for all of us, and we all owe
   him a huge debt of gratitude.

   Lately, however, a number of issues have arisen:

       1.  The free MIT list-server that Jory has ben using may go
       away, necessitating a switch to a commercial server.

       2.  List-administration and -maintenance requirements have
       grown along with the PICLIST membership (currently, over
       1000 people subscribe to the list), and Jory's old hardware is
       starting to become overloaded.

       3.  We'd all like to add new peripheral services to the
       PICLIST. An FTP site, web page, etc., would all be nice.

   The Fund exists in order to give list-members a way to donate
   money to the PICLIST.  The Fund will be open for donations for
   six months, then it'll be closed and all the collected money
   will be given to Jory.

Who's the custodian of the Fund?

   I am.

Why you?

   Why not?  Someone had to do it.

I thought the PICLIST was free.  Does this mean that we'll now have
to pay money for access?

   NO!

   Everyone CAN contribute, but no one HAS to.  Donations are
   ABSOLUTELY voluntary; you won't gain any personal privileges if
   you donate, and you won't lose any if you don't.  No one will
   think any less of you if you choose not to contribute to the
   Fund, and if you don't contribute, the list (for as long as it's
   operational) will continue to be available to you for free, as it
   always has been.

   Jory has no intention of transforming the PICLIST into a
   fee-based service; the Fund has been set up for one-time
   voluntary donations only.

What will the money be used for?

   I don't know yet, and neither does Jory... Until we have an idea
   of how much money there'll be, it doesn't make much sense to
   decide how to spend it.

   If you have any specific suggestions, however, please send them
   to me in private e-mail (Jory's busy enough already) and I'll
   pass them along to him.

   All we know right now is that we want to ensure that the PICLIST
   can survive without depending on the generosity of any one
   individual or corporation.  If we can also expand the PICLIST to
   include auxiliary services like a list-member FTP site for
   distributing code samples, list archives, etc., that'd be great,
   too.

   One thing that you CAN be sure of is that ALL of the money will
   go to Jory... I'm donating the time and effort required to
   maintain the Fund; NO PORTION of the money is going to me.

What if we donate our money and the list disappears anyway?  Will
there be any refunds?

   No.

So how do we know that Jory won't just take the money and run?

   We don't.  The money in the Fund will be given to Jory WITH NO
   STRINGS ATTACHED, so there are NO GUARANTEES as to the use to
   which he'll put it.

   If this makes you uncomfortable, try to think of your donation
   as an expression of gratitude for information you've ALREADY
   received from the list.

   If you STILL feel uncomfortable, please don't donate.

How do we know that YOU won't take the money and run?

   I guess you don't, really... But keep in mind that I run a
   business whose success depends largely on my personal
   reputation.  It wouldn't make much sense for me to risk that
   reputation for a sum of money that I expect will amount to less
   than what my business generates every couple of weeks.

   To ensure that contributors can track their donations, I'll be
   doing the following:

       1.  Whenever a donation is received, I'll assign a
       "contribution number" to it and notify the contributor in
       private e-mail that his donation has been received.

       2.  Every two weeks, I'll post a summary of the Fund
       activity. This summary will detail EVERY donation, including
       the contribution number and (unless you've told me otherwise)
       each contributor's name.

   Also, I'll be happy to tell any potential contributor how to get
   in touch with an officer at the bank where the PICLIST Fund
   account is located... Just send me private e-mail.

How do I donate to the Fund?

   I've set up an account at a local bank specifically for the
   PICLIST Fund.  The bank doesn't want to receive checks directly,
   so if you'd like to contribute, please send checks only (I don't
   want to deal with cash or credit cards) to the following address:

       The PICLIST Fund
       c/o Fast Forward Engineering
       1984 Casablanca Court
       Vista, CA  92083-5043
       USA

   IMPORTANT:  Checks must be made out to "Andrew Warren and Jory
               Bell"; BOTH of our signatures will be required in
               order for any funds to be withdrawn from the account,
               so this shouldn't make anyone nervous.

               Please include your e-mail address with your check.

               If you want your donation to be anonymous (as far as
               the rest of the list is concerned), please include a
               note to that effect.

Is my donation tax-deductible as a "charitable contribution to a
non-profit organization"?

   No.  For income-tax-reporting purposes, Jory will probably
   report it as "gift income".

How much should I donate?

   The short answer is, "As much as you feel is appropriate."

   I've given some thought to this, though, and I've come up with
   some suggestions based on a three-tiered "contributor level":

    LEVEL:    AMOUNT:               EXPLANATION:
   ---------------------------------------------------------------

   FRIEND      $10    If you're a Student, you should be able to
   (Student)          afford $10.  This is less than the cost of
                      one audio compact disc or a tank of gasoline,
                      and it's not much more than the quantity-one
                      retail price of a PIC16C84.

   FRIEND      $30    If a Student can afford $10, anyone with a job
   (Employed)         should be able to afford $30.

   PATRON:     $50    A decent programming reference book costs at
                      least this much.  If you've received as much
                      useful information from the list as you might
                      reasonably expect to find in the average
                      textbook and want to show your gratitude, this
                      is the way.

   GOD:        $75    Many of us have actually profited financially
                      from the list, either through help that other
                      list-members gave us with our commercial
                      products or through sales of development
                      software and hardware that we've advertised on
                      the list.  If you fall into this category, a
                      $75 donation shouldn't significantly affect
                      your balance sheet.

   Note that contributing at a particular level doesn't actually
   MEAN anything... Sorry, but you won't receive a commemorative
   T-shirt or coffee mug even if you donate at the "God" level.

I don't live in the USA.  Can I contribute with a check drawn on
funds other than US dollars?

   Yes.

I have more questions about the Fund.  Should I send them to Jory
Bell?

   Probably not.  Jory and I are in contact, but he's not involved
   in the day-to-day running of the Fund.  It'd be best to send
   your questions to me IN PRIVATE E-MAIL.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - @spam@fastfwdspamspamspam_OUTix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\09\28@093342 by Philip Lalone

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On Sat, 28 Sep 1996, Andrew Warren wrote:

> Why do we need the PICLIST Fund?
>
>     The PICLIST was started in early 1994 by Jory Bell, who's been
>     operating, maintaining, and (occasionally) moderating it since
>     then.  If you subscribe to other internet mailing lists, you know
>     that this one is particularly well-run; Jory's managed to make
>     the list a truly valuable resource for all of us, and we all owe
>     him a huge debt of gratitude.

       Instead of a charity drive, why not try to find someone willing to
dedicated their hardware and bandwidth to the list?  If people want to
send Jory money for what he's done, that fine, but I highly doubt it'll be
enough to help him get all the items listed, and to keep it, the money
will have to keep coming.  Microchip comes to mind, they have a nice
domain, and it would be quite appopriate if they did take over the list,
that is, if they were willing.

                                       Philip Lalone
                                       Alpha-X Development

'unsubsribe piclist'
1996\09\28@164153 by sv_calif

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unsubsribe piclist

'PICLIST Digest - 27 Sep 1996 to 28 Sep 1996'
1996\09\29@041206 by Bill Bau

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I have both beginner books for PIC ("Easy Pic'n" and "A Beginners Guid
to PIC") and I have found both to be very informative for a beginner.

'The PICLIST Fund FAQ'
1996\09\29@160119 by fastfwd

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     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Philip Lalone <KILLspamPICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Instead of a charity drive, why not try to find someone willing to
> dedicated their hardware and bandwidth to the list?

   Many people have offered, and Jory may decide to take one of
   those offers.  In general, though, I think we'd all like to
   ensure that the survival of the list desn't rely on anyone's
   generosity.

> If people want to send Jory money for what he's done, that fine,
> but I highly doubt it'll be enough to help him get all the items
> listed, and to keep it, the money will have to keep coming.

   Jory has no plans to make the list a fee-based service.

   It's interesting... I've received a lot of email already from
   people who are donating, and I don't think ANY of them have
   mentioned the new services that Jory might choose to add to the
   PICLIST.  As I recall, all of them just thanked Jory for the work
   he's done so far.

   As I said in the Fund FAQ... If you don't feel that the Fund will
   make a difference, and you don't feel that you've already
   received enough from the PICLIST to warrant a donation, then
   please don't donate.

> Microchip comes to mind, they have a nice domain, and it would be
> quite appopriate if they did take over the list, that is, if they
> were willing.

   It's important for the list to remain an independent forum... I
   don't think you'll find much support for the idea that it'd be
   "quite appropriate" for Microchip to "take over the list".

   There's already another internet mailing list devoted to PICs...
   But it's owned and moderated by a commercial vendor of PIC
   development toys (excuse me, I mean "development tools").  As a
   result, its content is nowhere NEAR as good as what's here on the
   PICLIST.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdspamspamspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'unsubsribe piclist'
1996\09\30@110238 by bUrP!

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unsubsribe piclist
[: GoezziKILLspamspam.....Cistron.nl :]
[  L*T M* B* W*cK*d   ]


'Binaries in PICLIST'
1996\10\01@004335 by David Negro
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Folks,
Am I the only one that thinks that binaries are unacceptable for this
mail-list?  If an individual explicitly asks for a binary file to be sent
via email, that is ok.  I however, do not think it appropriate to mail a
binary file to the group, which if memory serves me, goes to some 1000
people!  Not to mention souls like myself who subscribe to the digest.
This tends to make a mess.  Please be more considerate next time.

Thanks,
-Dave Negro

'PICLIST Digest - 29 Sep 1996 to 30 Sep 1996'
1996\10\01@012347 by Bill Bau

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I need to program 16C5X parts with assembly code that was assembled
using the old PICALC assembler which output .OBJ files and was
formatted as INHX16.  This was ok when I was using the older PICPRO II
programmer but now I am using the PROMATE II which only recognizes
INHX8M format and .HEX files.  Is there a way to convert the INHX16/OBJ
files to INHX8M/HEX files?  Any help would be appreciated.

1996\10\01@020029 by TONY NIXON 54964

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You may have to re-assemble the code with MPASM and to do this you
need to specify which processor you are using with the command line
or the LIST directive.

You should move all of you lables to column 1 and Directives to
column 2, but avoiding this only generates minor errors.

Any Radix changes also need to be made compatible with the current
MPASM version. eg. movlw .5,  movlw b'00001111' etc.

Regards

Tony


Just when I thought I knew it all,
I learned that I didn't.

'unsubsribe piclist'
1996\10\01@033757 by Keith Dowsett

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Hi,

  I think you want to send your request to the list server
(LISTSERVspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU) not to the list.

Keith.
==========================================================
Keith Dowsett         "Variables won't; constants aren't."

E-mail: kdowsettspamspam_OUTrpms.ac.uk
WWW:    http://kd.rpms.ac.uk/index.html

'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This'
1996\10\01@114145 by Andy Errington

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>From:  Steve Davidson[SMTP:.....davidsonRemoveMEspamKILLspamITS.BLDRDOC.GOV]
>Snip<
>How about setting up a commercial account on one of the local
>commercial
>servers.  Most of these will provide a e-mail, web page, and required
>storage.  This would take a lot of the load off Jory, be transferable
>if
>Jory decides to retire, etc.  Jory, acting as the list SA, should be
>paid
>some amount or give extra privileges to compensate for his time.  I
>would
>imagine this would run in the $50- 100/month range.  Companies, such as
>Microchip, could donate to this service if they like, but they get no
>control of any sort in doing so.
>Snip<

Whilst I am appreciative of the PICLIST forum, where I have received
much help, and been able to give (I hope) some help I can't help
thinking why Microchip do not fund the mailing list.  True they may
'moderate' (=censor) the list, but it is not really in their interest so
to do.

Parallax (makers of the BASIC Stamp, based on a Microchip PIC) support
and maintain the Stamp mailing list, so why not?

Microchip, if you are there, give Jory some cash for a pint, and pay him
to set up a commercial mailing list for you (assuming he wants to).

Andy (the other one)
BTW I have five fingers on each hand, should I be on this list anyway?

1996\10\01@215517 by fastfwd

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     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Andy Errington <TakeThisOuTPICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I can't help thinking why Microchip do not fund the mailing list.
> ....
> Microchip, if you are there, give Jory some cash for a pint, and pay
> him to set up a commercial mailing list for you (assuming he wants
> to).

Other Andy:

The number-one rule for the PICLIST Fund is that donations are
COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY.  This can't be stressed enough.

Please don't publicly exhort specific individuals or corporations to
donate; if you feel strongly that they should contribute to the Fund,
it'd be best to contact them privately.

Thanks.

-Andy (not the other one)

Andrew Warren - fastfwdspam_OUTspamspamBeGoneix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\10\01@230240 by Louis A. Mamakos

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<c=GB%a=_%p=Lancaster_Univer%l=XENU-961001154020Z-2936.....spam@spam@xenu.lancs.ac.uk>> Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Date: Tue, 01 Oct 1996 23:01:12 -0400
Sender:
@spam@louiespamspamTransSys.COM


Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
alien to me in this venue.

I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm involved in, and the
expense is not the problem - it's finding the time to do a good job.  I
know that in my case, at least, money wouldn't fix that problem.

I don't mean to speak out of turn here, especially since I'm just a
"lurker" on this list, but I've never run across this sort of thing
before.

louie

1996\10\02@003831 by Robert Lunn

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face
>Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
>ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
>help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
>alien to me in this venue.

       Times change.

       The venue is no longer academics using University infra-
       structure.

>I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm involved in, and the
>expense is not the problem - it's finding the time to do a good job.  I
>know that in my case, at least, money wouldn't fix that problem.

       The problem is the inadequacy of the hardware platform
       currently being used to host the list (ref AndyW and Jory).

       A solution is desired that doesn't involve reciprocal
       favours (ie no politics).

       Self-sufficiency is proposed.

___Bob

1996\10\02@005531 by Louis A. Mamakos

flavicon
face
> >Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
> >ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
> >help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
> >alien to me in this venue.
>
>         Times change.
>
>         The venue is no longer academics using University infra-
>         structure.

Yeah, and the two lists I run now are on my own machine, so what's
the point?  It's not as if a University if required to host a
mailing list.  This stuff is far from rocket science these days.

> >I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm involved in, and the
> >expense is not the problem - it's finding the time to do a good job.  I
> >know that in my case, at least, money wouldn't fix that problem.
>
>         The problem is the inadequacy of the hardware platform
>         currently being used to host the list (ref AndyW and Jory).

If I'm not mistaken, the mailing list is hosted on an IBM mainframe.  It's
just not clear to me what role Jory's machine plays in a simply automated
mailing list facility, and why it's on the critical path.

I understand that the administrators of the host may be unwilling to
continue to host the list, but I was surprised that the perceived solution
was to take up a collection rather than simply ask if anyone else was
willing to host the mailing list.

>         A solution is desired that doesn't involve reciprocal
>         favours (ie no politics).
>
>         Self-sufficiency is proposed.

I would think that someone in the community might be willing to host
the list - that's self-sufficiency.

Again, it strikes me as unusal that the solution is to take up a collection;
that's never happened in any of the discussion groups/mailing lists I've
been involved with in the past.  Usually if the list loses it's "home", a
simple query to the community/membership of the list usually brought
multiple offers out of the woodwork.

Perhaps things have changed.  I'll just go away now.

Louis Mamakos

1996\10\02@024505 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
   ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
   help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
   alien to me in this venue.

Well, things are different now.  In the old days network connections were
expensive and hard to get (DoD contract requried, etc), and so they were
shared by lots of people with lots of free time (read "students".)  And
while links were slow, there was lots more bandwidth than was being used.
Mailing lists were more or less invented at MIT, and then they started
multiplying.  The digest was invented when the traffic on SF-lovers got to
be "too much" due to the release of the first Star Trek film.  Human-Nets;
Info-micro; info-cpm; PD software collections maintained by the army at
White Sands Missile Range on 600Mb drives the size of a washing machine.
Requests would go out for modifications and improvements to OS software and
utilities for the ArpaNet hosts, but time and money were problems that had
already been solved, just to get THAT far.  Sigh.  The good old days.

Now of course, Internet is ubiquitous and cheap.  Anyone can get their own
account, the big machines with extra cycles are replaced by little machines
that are merely turned off, and companies start to worry about things like
exposure and liability.  The iconoclastic counterculture with the ability
will defend archives of near-pornography on free-speech and "annoy big
brother" grounds, and bandwidth-wasting gratuitous graphics on "we CAN do
it, so we MUST" grounds, but a moderately sized mailing list discussing a
somewhat obscure microcontroller has trouble finding a home.

On the bright side, prices are low, and for $100/month or so, you could
HIRE someone to run your mailing list for you.  Figuring out where to
get $100/month, however, is much harder than figuring out where to get
your $100k/year DoD contract...

BillW

1996\10\02@025117 by Robert Lunn

flavicon
face
>snip, snip, blah, blah...
>Again, it strikes me as unusal that the solution is to take up a collection...

       Andy's FAQ seems to cover the points you raise.

___Bob

1996\10\02@033957 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Louis A. Mamakos <spam_OUTPICLISTspamBeGonespamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Louie:

First, please don't feel that your "lurker" status restricts your
right to voice your opinion on the Fund.  I may not have been clear
enough on this point when it came up a couple of weeks ago, but my
only issue with lurkers (and it's mine personally; it may not be
shared by anyone else) is that I don't think they should try to
change the list CONTENT by simply complaining about it... I'd much
prefer that they steer the list content by actually CONTRIBUTING.

While we're on the subject of list-content, you may have noticed that
each of my replies to publicly-posted questions about the Fund is
headed by a request to "Please send comments/questions about the Fund
to me in PRIVATE e-mail."  I'm not requesting private correspondence
in order to stifle anyone's free speech; my only intent is to avoid
cluttering this list with discussion that's not directly related to
PICs.

Note that I WILL respond publicly to any publicly-posted comments
about the Fund, but please consider sending any comments to me
privately unless you're sure that the 1000 list-members would
benefit from reading them.

Ok... Sorry for digressing.

What you (and, I suspect, other list-members) may not realize is that
we don't "have to" collect funds to support the list.  Jory's been
running the list without any financial support from list-members
since early 1994, and I'm sure that he'd want to continnue running it
even if it started to cost him money as well as his time.

Here's the thing, though:  Recent events have shown that there IS a
limit to what Jory can do with his existing time and equipment, and
-- while the potentially-disastrous "error traffic" problem has been
solved -- it's only going to get worse in the future.

If we can collect some money for Jory -- and remember, we're talking
about a relatively modest amount; we're not going to buy him a
mainframe and a T3 line -- he may be able to avert future crises.

Additionally, he might even add some peripheral services that the
list really needs.  Did you notice the recent discussion regarding
the distribution of large source-code files over the list?  With
enough cash to support an ftp site, he could provide a repository for
those files.

I've been on the list for about two years and I CONTINUALLY see the
same questions asked over and over.  Various people have tried to
deal with this -- Tom Kellett created the PIC FAQ, I put a "PIC
Questions and Answers" page on my company's web site, and lots of
other list members have made code fragments available from their own
web pages -- but the BEST solution would be to have a searchable
archive of the PICLIST available on a PICLIST-specific web page.

As you pointed out, many list-members are in a position to donate
their servers.  In fact, I've already received a number of generous
offers.  Even so, it'd be nice to have some money to support this;
the PICLIST archives are very large and the server owners would
certainly appreciate it if the PICLIST payed for its own disk space.

Also, web-page creation and maintenance is a time-consuming job --
those of you who've sent questions to my company's web page and
haven't yet received an answer already know this -- and it's
unreasonable to assume that Jory's magnanimity extends to performing
this thankless task.  If a PICLIST web-page were created, some of the
money collected by the Fund would probably go to a part-time
Webmaster.

You said, "I run a few mailing lists for some topics that I'm
involved in, and the expense is not the problem - it's finding the
time to do a good job.  I know that in my case, at least, money
wouldn't fix that problem."

Your premise -- that lack of time is the primary impediment to
running a large list -- is certainly true.  However, your conclusion
may not be so accurate.  Most of a list-owner's time is spent doing
mechanical, repetitive tasks.  Money from the Fund could be used to
hire part-time help, to buy hardware and/or software that might
automate those tasks, or even to make Jory feel better about spending
his own time on them.

As I've been stressing, contributions are COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY, and
there's NO GUARANTEE that Jory will do anything specific with the
money we collect.

Nevertheless, over two dozen PICLIST members (including long-time
contributors, new members, and confirmed lurkers) have already sent
me e-mail announcing their intention to contribute, and the checks
have already started coming in.

They'd all appreciate it if Jory decided to use the money to really
improve the list in the future, but most of those people are
contributing because they want to thank Jory for the work he's
ALREADY done.

Oh, by the way... Please don't send comments about the Fund to Jory;
he really has nothing to do with it and he's busy enough already.

If it makes a difference to anyone, you should know that Jory never
asked for any money; the Fund was entirely my idea.  If you have
problems with the concept of collecting vountary contributions for
Jory, PLEASE direct them to me in private e-mail; Jory's the kind of
guy who'd want to reply to any e-mails that he received, and I'm sure
that the last thing any of us want to do is to take up more of his
time.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - fastfwdRemoveMEspamTakeThisOuTix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\10\02@091214 by Christopher Zguris

picon face
At 11:43 PM 10/1/96 PDT, you wrote:
>    Maybe it's just me, but in all the years I've been on the Internet (and
>    ARPANET before that), I've never encountered having to collect funds to
>    help support a mailing list.  The whole fund drive just seems sort of
>    alien to me in this venue.
>
[SNIP]
>On the bright side, prices are low, and for $100/month or so, you could
>HIRE someone to run your mailing list for you.  Figuring out where to
>get $100/month, however, is much harder than figuring out where to get
>your $100k/year DoD contract...
>
>BillW
>

I have a mailing list running from world.std.com . It costs $5/month for the
account, and $5/month for the list. The admin nonsense is forwarded to this
account, and it works fine (for $20, you also get a web page). For $20/month
a shell account at Netcom (nationwide) gives the account owner up to 5 lists
for free. If _I_ can find a listprovider in NYC (where _nobody_ wants to run
one), it shouldn't be any big deal to find a provider elsewhere (or try
world.std.com - geographic location isn't really important. Telnet in, set
the .forward address, and done).

Chris

   ======================================================================
         Christopher Zguris  -  TakeThisOuTczgurisKILLspamspaminterport.net  -  Uhhh, Ear?
                 1991 Honda VFR (Red, with red accessories)
          AMA, HSTA, CRVBMWR, HRCA, IVFROC, ex-Big Apple Vegetarian

                 I have known since I was very young that my
               purpose in life was to be Miss America. I have
                 lived my entire life with that idea in mind.
                   - Tara Dawn Holland, Miss America 1996
   ======================================================================

'PICLIST Digest - 29 Sep 1996 to 30 Sep 1996'
1996\10\02@094736 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 10:22 PM 9/30/96 -0700, you wrote:
>I need to program 16C5X parts with assembly code that was assembled
>using the old PICALC assembler which output .OBJ files and was
>formatted as INHX16.  This was ok when I was using the older PICPRO II
>programmer but now I am using the PROMATE II which only recognizes
>INHX8M format and .HEX files.  Is there a way to convert the INHX16/OBJ
>files to INHX8M/HEX files?  Any help would be appreciated.
>
Bill,

I strongly suggest you reassemble with MPASM if at all possible.
Failing that, if you are really stuck, I could rework my programmer
code to do the conversion for you if you really need it.

Let me know if you still need help.

Jim

'The PICLIST Fund -- Please Read This'
1996\10\02@122642 by Chuck McManis

flavicon
face
Sorry if this is off topic, so what is "adequate infrastructure" ? Is it a
pentium
class machine running FreeBSD or Linux ? (about $800 here in the Silicon
Valley) Presumably bandwidth is an issue. I've heard the number "over 1000
subscribers." Looking at the mail volume clearly an ISDN class system would
be adequate, possibly even a 33.6Kb line.

What exactly is needed in terms of hardware and connectivity to adequately
support the PIC list? What sort of access does Jory need to the system?
(root? user? other?)

--Chuck

1996\10\02@141600 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Chuck McManis <RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

{Quote hidden}

Chuck:

I understand your (and others') interest in trying to work out
precise technical solutions to the list's problems -- we're all
engineers, after all -- but I'm afraid that we're getting a little
sidetracked here.

The Fund has just started; I don't think it makes sense to speculate
about what the money'll be spent on until we at least know
approximately how much money there'll be.  I know that everyone here
wants to help out with specific suggestions, but Jory probably won't
be thinking seriously about all this for at least another month or
so.

I hate to keep repeating this, but in order to avoid any potential
misunderstandings and arguments later, I have to:

The money collected by the Fund will be donated to Jory to use as he
pleases... There's no guarantee (although there's a strong
expectation) that he'll even spend it on the PICLIST at all.  None of
the people who've already contributed has a problem with this, but
anyone who DOES shouldn't donate.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - .....fastfwd@spam@spamspamBeGoneix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

1996\10\02@182726 by Bernie Gordon

flavicon
face
At 12:54 AM 10/2/96 -0400, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

You might as well discontinue the list instead of begging.

1996\10\03@023956 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

flavicon
face
Chuck McManis <STOPspamcmcmanisTakeThisOuTspamFREEGATE.NET> wrote:

> Sorry if this is off topic, so what is "adequate infrastructure" ? Is it a

Quite frankly, the notion of setting up a system solely to handle
the PICLIST is silly. The resources needed would barely
be noticed by even a very small Internet host. Disk space is
probably the most significant resource used (for archiving messages
etc.). Bandwidth is not an issue, with proper configuration, a 28.8K
link would be good up to about 5000 subscribers.

Having said that, I support the Fund idea, if only to reward Jory for his
work. But I see no reason why the continued operation of the list should
not depend on the kindness of strangers. There are plenty of people around
willing to make available spare resources - the hardest part will always
be getting one or more people to contribute their time to the administration
tasks.

At this point in time the most important thing to do is make a clear
statement that we want the list to continue - exactly how this will
happen can evolve over time. There's no major crisis right now - just
a few little ones.


--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs       | HI-TECH Software,       | Voice: +61 7 3354 2411
TakeThisOuTclyde@spam@spamhitech.com.au      | P.O. Box 103, Alderley, | Fax:   +61 7 3354 2422
http://www.hitech.com.au | QLD, 4051, AUSTRALIA.   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
For info on the World's best C cross compilers for embedded systems, point
your WWW browser at http://www.hitech.com.au, or email EraseMEinfoEraseMEspamhitech.com.au

'PICLIST Digest - 29 Sep 1996 to 30 Sep 1996'
1996\10\03@114625 by David Tait

flavicon
face
Further to my message about using MPSIM as a hex file converter.
MPSIM will not load a hex file unless it has .HEX as its extension
so you'll need to rename FILE.OBJ to FILE.HEX before MPSIM will
look at it.

David
--
david.taitTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamman.ac.uk
http://www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj

1996\10\03@114840 by David Tait

flavicon
face
Bill Bau aksed:

> Is there a way to convert the INHX16/OBJ
> files to INHX8M/HEX files?  Any help would be appreciated.

MPSIM can be used as a format converter because it loads INHX16 files
automatically and saves in INHX8M by default.  Use "lo" to load your
file and "o" to save the new file.  MPSIM will probably complain about
the lack of supporting files (.COD and .LST) but it will load the hex
file anyway.

I have written a set of utilities for PIC16C84 hex files and they
might help you if you wanted to make your own conversion tool.  The
utilities come with source and a short tutorial on the difference
between INHX16 and INHX8M:

www.man.ac.uk/~mbhstdj/files/pichex01.zip
or
ftp://ftp.mcc.ac.uk/pub/micro-controllers/PIC/pichex01.zip

David
--
david.taitspamBeGonespamspamman.ac.uk

'The PICLIST Fund'
1996\10\03@161745 by Cobus deBeer

flavicon
face
     ===                                            ===
     ===  PLEASE SEND COMMENTS/QUESTIONS ABOUT THE  ===
     ===  PICLIST FUND TO ME IN -PRIVATE- EMAIL.    ===
     ===                                            ===

Andy Errington <RemoveMEPICLIST.....spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> I can't help thinking why Microchip do not fund the mailing list.
> ....
> Microchip, if you are there, give Jory some cash for a pint, and pay
> him to set up a commercial mailing list for you (assuming he wants
> to).

Other Andy:

The number-one rule for the PICLIST Fund is that donations are
COMPLETELY VOLUNTARY.  This can't be stressed enough.

Please don't publicly exhort specific individuals or corporations to
donate; if you feel strongly that they should contribute to the Fund,
it'd be best to contact them privately.

Thanks.

-Andy (not the other one)

Andrew Warren - fastfwd.....spam.....ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'The PICLIST Fund Report -- 7 October 1996'
1996\10\07@022723 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Dudes:

Many of you have suggested that it would be unseemly to show
contribution amounts in these PICLIST Fund Reports, so I'm only
identifying Contributor Levels (as described in the PICLIST Fund
FAQ).

Of course, only those contributors who have NOT explicitly requested
anonymity are listed here.

The following good people have contributed to the fund... If the
PICLIST improves in the future, you have them to thank.

Contribution #:   Contributor:                         Level:
---------------   ----------------------------------   -------
   1             Shel Michaels                        Patron
   2             Clyde Smith-Stubbs                   God
   3             Reginald Neale
   4             David and Wanda Benson               God

As of 7 October 1996, the PICLIST Fund holds over $200... I won't
know the exact amount until the bank tells me what the
foreign-exchange rate is when the checks clear.

To everyone who's already donated:

   Thank you!  If the Fund keeps growing at this rate, we'll be
   able to provide Jory with all sorts of possibilities for the
   future of the PICLIST.

To those of you who plan to contribute but just haven't gotten around
to it:

   The sooner the better... The Fund doesn't collect MUCH interest,
   but every little bit helps.  Also, those low Contributor Numbers
   are going fast...

To those of you who aren't interested in contributing to the Fund:

   I'm sorry for wasting your time with these Fund Reports... Be
   assured that they'll appear only once every week or two while
   the Fund is open, then never again.

To those of you who have no idea what the Fund is all about:

   By the time you read this, the PICLIST Fund FAQ should be
   available on my company's web page:

       http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

   Please read the FAQ and, if you have any questions, feel free to
   send them to me in PRIVATE e-mail.

By the way, there's some new information in the FAQ, so everyone who
hasn't yet contributed should probably check it out.

Remember:  Everyone CAN contribute, but no one HAS to.

Thanks again to everyone who's already contributed to the Fund.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - spam_OUTfastfwdEraseMEspam.....ix.netcom.com                ===
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California         ===
===                                                      ===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see: ===
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.htm ===

'PICLIST, Please'
1996\10\14@101344 by tjaart

flavicon
face
Could everybody try to cut back on non-PIC related subjects?
(DTMF chips, zero ohm resistors etc?) It produces masses of non-PIC
stuff that one has to scan through in order to get to the real thing.

I appreciate that it may have some distant relation to this discussion
group, but please move somewhere else.

Many Thanks
Tjaart

'PICLIST, Please -Reply'
1996\10\14@111920 by Mark Jurras

flavicon
face
I am very sorry that you have to click the delete key so many times to read
your mail. I, however, feel that even though some subjects go a bit off
topic, I get useful information out of some. I have picked up MANY good
ideas for my PIC based products from these far-out discussions. I vote to
keep it the way it is. But I spend most of my time lurking as there are many
who are better at the PIC than I so I defer to them. Unfortunately,
sometimes, requests to keep the list as pure as possible generate just as
mail as the bit off topic discussions.

- -Mark

>>> Tjaart van der Walt <EraseMEtjaartKILLspamspamspamWASP.CO.ZA> 13 October 1996  1:09 pm >>>
Could everybody try to cut back on non-PIC related subjects?
(DTMF chips, zero ohm resistors etc?) It produces masses of non-PIC
stuff that one has to scan through in order to get to the real thing.

I appreciate that it may have some distant relation to this discussion
group, but please move somewhere else.

Many Thanks
Tjaart

1996\10\14@112335 by Mark A. Corio

picon face
Tjaart,

We recently went through this and it seemed that the majority of people with
comments were in favor of these non-PIC related discussions as the real power
of a PIC is in the application world, not just in code fragments, etc..  I
continue to remain in favor of hearing about the real world.

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel:  (716) 328-5850 --- Fax:  (716) 328-1144
http://www.frontiernet.net/~rmi/

***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

In a message dated 96-10-14 10:28:25 EDT, you write:

>Could everybody try to cut back on non-PIC related subjects?
>(DTMF chips, zero ohm resistors etc?) It produces masses of non-PIC
>stuff that one has to scan through in order to get to the real thing.
>
>I appreciate that it may have some distant relation to this discussion
>group, but please move somewhere else.
>
>Many Thanks
>Tjaart

1996\10\14@120224 by Wireless Scientific

flavicon
face
At 11:13 AM 10/14/96, Mark Jurras wrote:
>>>> Tjaart van der Walt <RemoveMEtjaartSTOPspamspamEraseMEWASP.CO.ZA> 13 October 1996  1:09 pm >>>
>Could everybody try to cut back on non-PIC related subjects?
>(DTMF chips, zero ohm resistors etc?) It produces masses of non-PIC
>stuff that one has to scan through in order to get to the real thing.
>
>I appreciate that it may have some distant relation to this discussion
>group, but please move somewhere else.


I disagree, this stuff is great.

craig




________________________________________________________
Dr. Craig Hollabaugh
Wireless Scientific, Inc.
1890 South 14th Street
Building 100, Suite 105
Amelia Island, FL 32034
904 261 6977
904 261 2129 fax
spam_OUTwscispamspamRemoveMEnet-magic.net

Or you might know me as
Dr. Craig Hollabaugh
Analog Microelectronics, Georgia Institute of Technology
spamBeGonehollaEraseMEspammonique.adgrp.gatech.edu

or

Dr. Craig Hollabaugh
Aerospace Department, University of Texas, Austin
TakeThisOuTholla.....spamTakeThisOuTcfdlab.ae.utexas.edu

1996\10\14@144033 by RLANIER

flavicon
face
>Tjaart,

>We recently went through this and it seemed that the majority of people with
>comments were in favor of these non-PIC related discussions as the real power
>of a PIC is in the application world, not just in code fragments, etc..  I
>continue to remain in favor of hearing about the real world.

>Mark A. Corio
>Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
>200 Buell Road, Suite 9
>Rochester, NY  14624
>Tel:  (716) 328-5850 --- Fax:  (716) 328-1144
>http://www.frontiernet.net/~rmi/

    Absolutely!

    A microcontroller is just one part of a system that is suppose to do
    something. If you are not using correct tolerance/value resistors,
    capacitors, crystals, etc. , then your design will never work
    properly, no matter how good your source code is.

    Tony

1996\10\14@164616 by Juan Jose Abba

flavicon
face
I also think that on many cases the subjects may look a bit off topic, but
they are in general a good source for ideas and good learning material on
many, many cases.
   Now, if receipt confirmations as well as subscribe and unsubscribe
messages can be filtered some how, that may help us on the use of the delete
key.

As an avid reader of this list I kindly request, "pls. keep bombing with ideas.

juan abba



At 11:13 14/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1996\10\14@193810 by Walter Banks

picon face
> Could everybody try to cut back on non-PIC related subjects?
> (DTMF chips, zero ohm resistors etc?) It produces masses of non-PIC
> stuff that one has to scan through in order to get to the real thing.
>
> I appreciate that it may have some distant relation to this discussion
> group, but please move somewhere else.

Non-PIC stuff is called applications that is what we do. PIC's are what
we use.

'A short PICLIST Fund update'
1996\10\15@044908 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Dudes:

This is just a quick update on the Fund... I'll post a more-complete
report next week.

The Fund has collected several hundred dollars for Jory Bell, our
esteemed list-master.  We've received donations from all over the
world -- South Africa, Australia, the UK, Canada, etc. -- but
surprisingly, not as large a percentage as I had expected from the
USA.  Strange.

Anyway, there's a PICLIST Fund FAQ on my company's web page now...
Please read it before donating to the Fund.

Remember:  Anyone CAN donate; no one HAS to.

-Andy

P.S.  Thanks to all those who've already donated; I'll post an
     updated list next week.

Andrew Warren - fastfwd@spam@spamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'PICLIST Digest - 16 Oct 1996 to 17 Oct 1996'
1996\10\18@113708 by Barry Klein

flavicon
face
Subject: Controlling a CDROM with a PIC

There is a "play CD" command in the command set that plays the whole
CD to completion.  This is what is used when you set the CD to play
in your system and then jump out of the CD play program to a user
application (and it still plays on).  Once the command is sent you
can do anything and it continues on.  So you could even do this with
a couple dollars worth of TTL logic.  If you want more specific
control of the player then, yes, it gets more complicated - but
this is very simple to do - load the command and strobe it in.  The
commands are documented in the Atapi spec and maybe the enhanced IDE
spec.  These should be on a web site somewhere, like our WDC.com,
Seagate or Quantum may have it too.

spamklein_bSTOPspamspamRemoveMEa1.wdc.com

'The PICLIST Fund -- Sorry, no update today.'
1996\10\29@035435 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Dudes:

Normally, I'd be posting an update on the PICLIST Fund today, but I'm
two days away from the deadline on an 8-month-old project (it's a
Windows program written in Visual C++ -- Ack!) so I don't have the
time to post the information today.

Despair not!  If I'm not forced to perform ritual suicide on
Wednesday in order to save face, I'll post a Fund update here at the
end of the week.

-Andy

P.S.  All of you who promised to send contributions but haven't
     gotten around to it yet:  Now's the time... Those coveted low
     contributor numbers are still available.

=== Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdspamspam_OUTix.netcom.com                 ===
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California          ===
===                                                       ===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:  ===
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html ===

'PICLIST server workings'
1996\10\31@190200 by Craig Knotts

flavicon
face
    When I send something to the PICLIST, is my name automatically deleted
    from the BCC list before being re-transmitted?

    I've sent out replies, but have not been able to verify that they got
    sent out properly.

1996\10\31@191026 by Clyde Smith-Stubbs

flavicon
face
Craig Knotts <@spam@Craig.KnottsEraseMEspamTakeThisOuTCARRIER.WLTK.COM>

>      When I send something to the PICLIST, is my name automatically deleted
>      from the BCC list before being re-transmitted?
>
>      I've sent out replies, but have not been able to verify that they got
>      sent out properly.

Send a message to RemoveMELISTSERVTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU with the body being:

set piclist ack repro

and then you will get both acknowledgement and a copy of the message.

Clyde

--
Clyde Smith-Stubbs       | HI-TECH Software,       | Voice: +61 7 3354 2411
RemoveMEclydespamspamhitech.com.au      | P.O. Box 103, Alderley, | Fax:   +61 7 3354 2422
http://www.hitech.com.au | QLD, 4051, AUSTRALIA.   |
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
For info on the World's best C cross compilers for embedded systems, point
your WWW browser at http://www.hitech.com.au, or email KILLspaminfospamspamspam_OUThitech.com.au


'PICLIST server workings'
1996\11\01@002545 by tjaart
flavicon
face
As soon as people start flaming you, you know your answer got there ;-))

Try insulting someone :-D

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
______________________________________________________________
|  Another sun-deprived R&D Engineer slaving away in a dungeon |
|WASP International GSM vehicle tracking and datacomm solutions|
|           +27-(0)11-622-8686 | http://wasp.co.za             |
|______________________________________________________________|

1996\11\01@140142 by seana

flavicon
face
Please delete me from this group temporarily as my modem has just
resigned! will contact you again when I wish to subscribe again

Tnk for the support...


Sean

'The PICLIST Fund FAQ'
1996\11\03@045852 by Karel Hladky

flavicon
picon face
In article <spam199609280746.AAA26412.....spamTakeThisOuTdfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com>, Andrew Warren
<fastfwd@spam@spamspam_OUTIX.NETCOM.COM> writes
>
>    Approximately once every two weeks while the Fund is open, then
>    never again.  The PICLIST generates 20-50 messages per day, so
>    this FAQ should represent only a very small percentage of the
>    total list traffic.
>

I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify
starting a PICLIST newsgroup. There are many newsgroups with lower
traffic that this. Any volunteers to set up a vote?

sci.electronics.components.piclist or similar would seem appropriate.
Since some people may not have news access it might be a good idea to
keep PICLIST going for a while and mirror it on the ng and vice versa.
Several other newsgroups manage to do this quite successfully.

Karel
--
    ++++++++++++++++++ KH Design & Development ++++++++++++++++++
    Electrochemical Corrosion Measurement and Control Consultancy
    STOPspamkhladkyspamkhdesign.demon.co.uk http://www.khdesign.demon.co.uk/

1996\11\03@074630 by Larry Griffin

flavicon
face
Karel Hladky wrote:
>I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify
>starting a PICLIST newsgroup. There are many newsgroups with lower
>traffic that this. Any volunteers to set up a vote?

>sci.electronics.components.piclist or similar would seem appropriate.
>Since some people may not have news access it might be a good idea to
>keep PICLIST going for a while and mirror it on the ng and vice versa.
>Several other newsgroups manage to do this quite successfully.

=========

NO!  That's capital N, capital O, exclamation point.
Everytime I see a mailing list convert to a newsgroup there is a sudden
increase in garbage postings from drifters and a decrease in meaningful
input from list members.  I also prefer having the discussions
automatically show up in my mailbox rather than having to physically go
retrieve them from a newsgroup.  That's my $0.02 worth...

Larry Griffin

1996\11\03@084807 by Mark A. Corio

picon face
In a message dated 96-11-03 07:48:13 EST, you write:

>NO!  That's capital N, capital O, exclamation point.
>Everytime I see a mailing list convert to a newsgroup there is a sudden
>increase in garbage postings from drifters and a decrease in meaningful
>input from list members.  I also prefer having the discussions
>automatically show up in my mailbox rather than having to physically go
>retrieve them from a newsgroup.  That's my $0.02 worth...
>
>Larry Griffin

I AGREE with Larry.  That's capital A, capital G.......you get the picture.

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel:  (716) 328-5850 --- Fax:  (716) 328-1144
http://www.frontiernet.net/~rmi/

***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

1996\11\03@091435 by Ian Stirling

flavicon
face
>
> In article <EraseME199609280746.AAA26412spam_OUTspamdfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com>, Andrew Warren
> <fastfwdKILLspamspamspamIX.NETCOM.COM> writes
> >
> >    Approximately once every two weeks while the Fund is open, then
> >    never again.  The PICLIST generates 20-50 messages per day, so
> >    this FAQ should represent only a very small percentage of the
> >    total list traffic.
> >
>
> I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify
> starting a PICLIST newsgroup. There are many newsgroups with lower
> traffic that this. Any volunteers to set up a vote?
>
> sci.electronics.components.piclist or similar would seem appropriate.
> Since some people may not have news access it might be a good idea to
> keep PICLIST going for a while and mirror it on the ng and vice versa.
> Several other newsgroups manage to do this quite successfully.

I would certainly vote yes, perhaps the newsgroup comp.arch.embedded.pic
may be more appropriate. Assuming that that group would get the same
quantity of spam as c.a.e.
That group seems to get comparatively little spam,
a quick survey I did of the group, looking for spam gives a ratio of about
30 usefull : 5 spam : 5 not really the right group

And it isn't even a moderated group. Going by these rules, the piclist is
of lower signal/noise ratio than c.a.e
I'd say make the group unmoderated, but in the RFC say that a cancelbot may
be implemented in the future to eliminate excessive crossposts, similar
to the bot on alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (which has a BIG problem with
posts that should be in alt.fix.my.pc, not in a group for building computers
with wire.)

The benifit of it not being in alt is of course, you get the spam cancellers
for free, as they do all of comp.*

Plus, it would ease the load on the maintainer if more people took the list
by news, and ensure that everybody knew of another place to access the list
if anything untoward happened to it for whatever reason.


> Karel
> --
>      ++++++++++++++++++ KH Design & Development ++++++++++++++++++
>      Electrochemical Corrosion Measurement and Control Consultancy
>      TakeThisOuTkhladkyKILLspamspamkhdesign.demon.co.uk http://www.khdesign.demon.co.uk/
>


--
Ian Stirling.                        |  http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/
AKA Caeser, Bolonewbie.              |  With information on the PDA I'm making.

'The PICLIST Fund FAQ NOOOOO!!'
1996\11\03@151539 by hoss karoly

flavicon
face
I usually don't flame but converting the list to newsgroup is far the
dumbest idea I ever happened to read :(
I don't know how long have you been on this list but my vote is NO!
the main causes are written in the quoeted test above
and another one : getting the mail is not a big time and if you're off
line you can sort/read/delete/forward/answer the messages
and if you're on line again you can send the answers
on-line time costs a lot and ties you to your net-provider

bye
charley


Mark A. Corio wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1996\11\03@155155 by Eric Smith

flavicon
face
Karel Hladky <spamkhladky.....spam@spam@KHDESIGN.DEMON.CO.UK> wrote:
> I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify
> starting a PICLIST newsgroup.

This subject keeps coming up every few months.  I, for one, don't want a
newsgroup.

1.  Traffic level doesn't seem like a particularly relevant criterion
   for changing things.  You might just as convincingly argue that the
   PICLIST should be changed to a newsgroup because Microchip has many
   new PIC variants, or based on Microchip's stock performance.

2.  It is easier to archive the PICLIST for future reference than it would
   be as a newsgroup.

3.  News tends to expire extremely fast.  The news server I use has a
   4 Gigabyte enews spool, and it still expires things in days.  Sometimes
   I'm unable to find time to read news that often.

4.  News doesn't always propogate reliably.  Often things expire at some
   intermediate site and never make it to some people.

5.  News doesn't propogate as fast as email.  Sometimes people answer questions
   on the PICLIST in only a few minutes.

6.  I really don't want to read "Make Money Fast" spam all the time.

7.  It really isn't that difficult for people that are interested to subscribe.
   But having at least a trivial entry barrier does act as somewhat of a
   "bozo filter".  (Sorry if that sounds elitist.)

8.  If you don't like getting the PICLIST mail in your normal mailbox, you
   can:

       A.  subscribe in digest mode so you get the email batched into
           large messages

       B.  arrange to have a separate mailbox just to PICLIST

       C.  use procmail, which can sort your email based on regular
           expressions

Cheers,
Eric

1996\11\03@195222 by Ian Stirling

flavicon
face
>
> Karel Hladky <spam_OUTkhladkyspamspamKHDESIGN.DEMON.CO.UK> wrote:
> > I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify
> > starting a PICLIST newsgroup.
>
> This subject keeps coming up every few months.  I, for one, don't want a
> newsgroup.
>
> 1.  Traffic level doesn't seem like a particularly relevant criterion
>     for changing things.  You might just as convincingly argue that the
Agree

> 2.  It is easier to archive the PICLIST for future reference than it would
>     be as a newsgroup.

Hmm, depends on you'r software, for me news is probably marginally easier
Of course if it's a newsgroup, you get free indexing and storage for up
to a year (http://www.dejanews.com/)



> 3.  News tends to expire extremely fast.  The news server I use has a
>     4 Gigabyte enews spool, and it still expires things in days.  Sometimes
>     I'm unable to find time to read news that often.

news volume for usenet is frightning, my ISP has 21GB spool, which
is only enough for 2 weeks for most, 1 week for binaries, and 2 days of warez

> 4.  News doesn't always propogate reliably.  Often things expire at some
>     intermediate site and never make it to some people.

This is not really a problem with a comp group, some alt groups yes,
but if the group is carries by the majority of sites (as a legit new comp
group would be) then propogation is not a problem

> 5.  News doesn't propogate as fast as email.  Sometimes people answer questio
>     on the PICLIST in only a few minutes.

Well, mail varies, as does news, most mail is probably faster than most news

> 6.  I really don't want to read "Make Money Fast" spam all the time.

The cancelbots seem to be working, I found maybe 5 or 6 messages out of
400 or so in comp.arch.embedded


> 7.  It really isn't that difficult for people that are interested to
subscribe.
>     But having at least a trivial entry barrier does act as somewhat of a
>     "bozo filter".  (Sorry if that sounds elitist.)


It does, but it also is usefull, the reterorobomoderator on
alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt serves a similar function, in that it cncells
postings from a new username, untill either they are added to the list
by the maintainer, or the user puts PRR in the message to inform the robomod
that they've read the posting rules.


>
> 8.  If you don't like getting the PICLIST mail in your normal mailbox, you
>     can:
>
>         A.  subscribe in digest mode so you get the email batched into
>             large messages
>
>         B.  arrange to have a separate mailbox just to PICLIST
I'd say few people have this option.

>         C.  use procmail, which can sort your email based on regular
>             expressions

An increasing number do not have this option either.

>
> Cheers,
> Eric
>


--
Ian Stirling.                        |  http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/
AKA Caeser, Bolonewbie.              |  With information on the PDA I'm making.

'PICList conversion - not, PICList peer - perhaps'
1996\11\04@123501 by Chuck McManis

flavicon
face
To put this in a more positive tone. I encourage anyone who wishes to to have
a PIC newsgroup (which I think would be a good thing) to go through the 'call
for votes' process and create comp.sys.pic, comp.sources.pic, comp.binaries.pic
and perhaps comp.sys.pic-announce.

Once this individual has gone through this 3 - 4 month process, create the news
groups and start discussing away.

If the traffic on the pic news groups becomes "better" than the traffic here,
people
will move, it if doesn't, they won't.

This isn't an "either/or" proposition. Create the newsgroup, give the newsies a
place to hang out. The PICLIST isn't threatened, and who knows perhaps there
will be some value there.

--Chuck

'The PICLIST Fund FAQ'
1996\11\04@123730 by vador Eduardo Tropea (SET)

flavicon
face
>>NO!  That's capital N, capital O, exclamation point.
>>Everytime I see a mailing list convert to a newsgroup there is a sudden
>>increase in garbage postings from drifters and a decrease in meaningful
>>input from list members.  I also prefer having the discussions
>>automatically show up in my mailbox rather than having to physically go
>>retrieve them from a newsgroup.  That's my $0.02 worth...
>>
>>Larry Griffin

>I AGREE with Larry.  That's capital A, capital G.......you get the picture.

>Mark A. Corio

And I AGREE with Larry and Mark TOO.

SET



********************************************************************************
Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) - EraseMEsalvadorspamBeGonespaminti.edu.ar
Work: INTI (National Institute of Industrial Technology) Sector: ICE
(Electronic Control & Instrumentation)
Post (Home): Curapaligue 2124 - Caseros (1678)- Buenos Aires - Argentina

'PICList conversion - not, PICList peer - pe'
1996\11\04@132809 by vador Eduardo Tropea (SET)

flavicon
face
To all the people that is following the NEWS topic, PLEASE see above:

Chuck wrote:
> To put this in a more positive tone. I encourage anyone who wishes to to have
>a PIC newsgroup (which I think would be a good thing) to go through the 'call
>for votes' process and create comp.sys.pic, comp.sources.pic, comp.binaries.pic
>and perhaps comp.sys.pic-announce.
>Once this individual has gone through this 3 - 4 month process, create the news
>groups and start discussing away.
>If the traffic on the pic news groups becomes "better" than the traffic here,
> people
>will move, it if doesn't, they won't.
>This isn't an "either/or" proposition. Create the newsgroup, give the newsies a
>place to hang out. The PICLIST isn't threatened, and who knows perhaps there
>will be some value there.

 Why the people is so limited?
 I'm susbcripted to another list where the list is the BOTH things AT THE SAME
TIME, if you want news ... you can use news, but if you DON'T have news, you
can use the mail list, each mail sent to the list appears in the news and each
new in the news go to the mailing list!!
 THAT'S ALL.

SET
********************************************************************************
Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) - EraseMEsalvadorspam_OUTspamspaminti.edu.ar
Work: INTI (National Institute of Industrial Technology) Sector: ICE
(Electronic Control & Instrumentation)
Post (Home): Curapaligue 2124 - Caseros (1678)- Buenos Aires - Argentina

'The PICLIST Fund FAQ'
1996\11\04@171640 by Karel Hladky

flavicon
picon face
In article <19961103214743.10047.qmailspam_OUTspambrouhaha.com>, Eric Smith
<spam_OUTericTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamBROUHAHA.COM> writes
>Karel Hladky <TakeThisOuTkhladkyspamKHDESIGN.DEMON.CO.UK> wrote:
>> I think that the PICLIST traffic levels are now high enough to justify
>> starting a PICLIST newsgroup.
>
>This subject keeps coming up every few months.  I, for one, don't want a
>newsgroup.

OK, just thought I'd ask. For me it makes no difference, my mail/news
reader (Turnpike) treats lists as virtual newsgroups anyhow. As for
archiving - is the list being archived at present ? Last time I looked
(few months back) it didn't seem to be all that up to date. And the
searches aren't exactly user friendly.

Karel
--
    ++++++++++++++++++ KH Design & Development ++++++++++++++++++
    Electrochemical Corrosion Measurement and Control Consultancy
    spamkhladkyspam_OUTspamkhdesign.demon.co.uk http://www.khdesign.demon.co.uk/

1996\11\04@180943 by Gael Waiche

picon face
Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) wrote:
>
> >>NO!  That's capital N, capital O, exclamation point.
> >>Everytime I see a mailing list convert to a newsgroup there is a sudden
> >>increase in garbage postings from drifters and a decrease in meaningful
> >>input from list members.  I also prefer having the discussions
> >>automatically show up in my mailbox rather than having to physically go
> >>retrieve them from a newsgroup.  That's my $0.02 worth...
> >>
> >>Larry Griffin
>
> >I AGREE with Larry.  That's capital A, capital G.......you get the picture.
>
> >Mark A. Corio
>
> And I AGREE with Larry and Mark TOO.
>
> SET
>
>
*******************************************************************************
*
> Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) - EraseMEsalvadorspamspaminti.edu.ar
> Work: INTI (National Institute of Industrial Technology) Sector: ICE
> (Electronic Control & Instrumentation)
> Post (Home): Curapaligue 2124 - Caseros (1678)- Buenos Aires - Argentina


So do I...

Gael

'PICList conversion - not, PICList peer - pe'
1996\11\05@082832 by Gerhard Fiedler

flavicon
face
At 15:10 04/11/96 +0300, Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) wrote:
>  I'm susbcripted to another list where the list is the BOTH things AT THE SAME
>TIME, if you want news ... you can use news, but if you DON'T have news, you
>can use the mail list, each mail sent to the list appears in the news and each
>new in the news go to the mailing list!!

Let's see if this gets some consideration...

1996\11\05@101121 by Scott Walsh

flavicon
face
    Well,

    If we can get the listerv and newsgroup system to propagate the same
    material, then fine!

    Also as the comp.arch.embedded newsgroup already exists, should we not
    create a group called comp.arch.embedded.pic ?

    Scott.

    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
    + Scott Walsh                    Tel: +44 1793 84 22 18              +
    + Design Engineer                Fax: +44 1793 84 88 53              +
    +                                Tlx: 44626 PLANAC G                 +
    + Plantronics International                                          +
    + Wootton Bassett, Wiltshire,                                        +
    + SN4 8QQ, England.              EMail: KILLspamscott.walshEraseMEspamspam_OUTplantronics.com  +
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------+



______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: PICList conversion - not, PICList peer - pe
Author:  pic microcontroller discussion list <TakeThisOuTPICLISTspam_OUTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> at
INTERNET
Date:    04/11/96 03:10


To all the people that is following the NEWS topic, PLEASE see above:

Chuck wrote:
{Quote hidden}

 Why the people is so limited?
 I'm susbcripted to another list where the list is the BOTH things AT THE SAME
TIME, if you want news ... you can use news, but if you DON'T have news, you
can use the mail list, each mail sent to the list appears in the news and each
new in the news go to the mailing list!!
 THAT'S ALL.

SET
********************************************************************************
Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) - @spam@salvadorTakeThisOuTspaminti.edu.ar
Work: INTI (National Institute of Industrial Technology) Sector: ICE
(Electronic Control & Instrumentation)
Post (Home): Curapaligue 2124 - Caseros (1678)- Buenos Aires - Argentina

1996\11\05@105454 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> At 15:10 04/11/96 +0300, Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) wrote:
> >  I'm susbcripted to another list where the list is the BOTH things AT THE
SAME
> >TIME, if you want news ... you can use news, but if you DON'T have news, you
> >can use the mail list, each mail sent to the list appears in the news and
each
> >new in the news go to the mailing list!!
>
> Let's see if this gets some consideration...

I'd consider it under two conditions:

1) The newsgroup is moderated.
2) That some minimal moderation including the removal of spam and clearly
off topic posts is involved. Should be solvable with a robot moderator which
presents a couple of minimal hurdles to free posting into a newsgroup.

One should be fearful of having a newsgroup connected to one's mailbox
because it can be quite like being hit with a fire hose: lots of volume,
not a lot of control.

I'm game for anything that will facilitate the distribution of PIC related
issues, but not at the expense of lowering the signal to noise ratio to the
point of uselessness.

BAJ

1996\11\05@122517 by Chuck McManis

flavicon
face
Actually I didn't suggest that the list forward to the newsgroup and vice versa
as
Salvador suggests. I'd rather see the newsgroup be independent and the PICList
be independent as well. The issue is that it takes different skills to deal with
mail
traffic versus newsgroup traffic, further newsgroups automatically expire
messages
whereas most people, thinking they will get back to them, leave their mailing
list
messages in their mailboxes somewhere. The second issue is that the newsgroup
will generate a lot of "What's a PIC" kind of questions that are really annoying
on PIClist but well suited to a newsgroup. So to reiterate my solution:

Someone (not me, I've not got the time) start the newsgroup process by sending
out a call for votes. (you may also want to simultaneously create an alt.pic
group)
after the mandatory voting, get the group established. Then those on this list
can
go read that newsgroup, if they choose, and see if they want to "hang out"
there.

--Chuck

----------
From:   Gerhard Fiedler[SMTP:STOPspamgeraldospamspamNW.COM.BR]
Sent:   Tuesday, November 05, 1996 3:16 AM
To:     Multiple recipients of list PICLIST
Subject:        Re: PICList conversion - not, PICList peer - pe

At 15:10 04/11/96 +0300, Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET) wrote:
>  I'm susbcripted to another list where the list is the BOTH things AT THE SAME
>TIME, if you want news ... you can use news, but if you DON'T have news, you
>can use the mail list, each mail sent to the list appears in the news and each
>new in the news go to the mailing list!!

Let's see if this gets some consideration...

'PICLIST Digest - 7 Nov 1996 to 8 Nov 1996'
1996\11\09@232625 by Przemek Klosowski

flavicon
face
Rob BRUCE-BRAND <spamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:


> We've had intra-departmental e-mail for sometime (using Perfect
> Office/Groupwise), but have only recently had an internet (SMTP)
> e-mail gateway set up. People have become fond of setting up a rule
> in their mail to automatically reply to incoming mail when they are
> on leave, to inform the writer of this fact.
> ....
> Joe Bloggs went off on leave & set up such a rule. What happens? He
> ....
> He gets an e-mail from a mail listing. His mail system
> automatically sends an e-mail to the whole group saying that he's
> on leave. Now the 'whole group' includes him, so he also receives
> this message. His rule feels obliged to answer this e-mail & again
> tells the group that he's on leave. Again this includes him, & his
> mail system replies...ad infinitum...

Andy Warren says the PICLIST has a fuse for just such occasion; that's
good of course, but the real culprit is the idiotic auto-reply
code---any decent one would keep a record of From: addresses that were
notified already, and keep quiet the next time. As they say, 'those
who don't know Unix are doomed to reinvent it, poorly'.

BTW, this wouldn't be an issue for a newsgroup, of  course.

       przemek

'PicList lack of mail.'
1996\11\20@003307 by Giles L. Honeycutt

flavicon
face
Is the Piclist down??
I have not gotten any mail in quite a while.  In case it is not down, I guees I
sould bring up a good topic.. Has anyone started using the
new 8 pin devices??  I have a Needhams programer and have yet to see a software
update to support it, so I am looking for alternatives. I have
2 of the windowed 8 pin dips and would love to start playing with them.  Anyone
have a cheep programmer that supports them yet?
        Giles L. Honeycutt

1996\11\20@093631 by Jerry English

flavicon
face
is the list down? haven't heard anything for a day now.

regards
jerry
jenglishRemoveMEspamharris.com

1996\11\20@100602 by Wolfram Liebchen

flavicon
face
At 09:36 20.11.96 -0500, you wrote:
>is the list down? haven't heard anything for a day now.
>
>regards
>jerry
>jenglishEraseMEspam@spam@harris.com
>

I think the list is ok.
(I received a lot this morning).
And I hear you and you hear me --> everything works.

[maybe everybody took one day off ;-) ?]

Wolfram


+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Wolfram Liebchen                                    |
| Forschungsinstitut fŸr Optik, TŸbingen, Deutschland |
| STOPspamliebchenTakeThisOuTspam.....ffo.fgan.de                         |
+-----------------------------------------------------+

'PicList Dead?'
1996\11\20@153133 by Martin Darwin

flavicon
face
Is it just me or is the piclist dead. The listserv says I am still
subscribed. Can someone e-mail me if they get this message. Thanks!

Martin

'PicList lack of mail.'
1996\11\21@194620 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Giles L. Honeycutt <spam_OUTPICLISTspam_OUTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Is the Piclist down??

   Not anymore.

> Anyone have a cheep programmer that supports [the 8-pin PICs] yet?

   Depends on how you define "cheap".  Microchip's PICSTART PLUS
   ($150 or so) programs all PICs, including the 8-pin devices.

   -Andy

Andrew Warren - TakeThisOuTfastfwdTakeThisOuTspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'Needham's programmer and 8 pin PICs. Was PicList l'
1996\11\21@211939 by Bob Blick

picon face
>Is the Piclist down??
> I have not gotten any mail in quite a while.  In case it is not down, I
guees I
> sould bring up a good topic.. Has anyone started using the
>new 8 pin devices??  I have a Needhams programer and have yet to see a software
> update to support it, so I am looking for alternatives. I have
>2 of the windowed 8 pin dips and would love to start playing with them.  Anyone
> have a cheep programmer that supports them yet?
>         Giles L. Honeycutt
>

I guess the list is back up again. I also have a Needham's EMP-20. I spoke
to them recently about a bug when programming the 16C74A (they fixed it, get
the latest software). While I had them on the phone, I asked them about 8
pin PICs. They said that they are coming out with a new programmer, and want
to get it out by Christmas, so they will not add the 8 pin PICs to the
EMP-20 until they have the new programmer to market.

I bet you could make an adapter to program the 8 pin PICs as if they were
another PIC if you were desperate...

Cheers, Bob

'PicList lack of mail. [12C5xx]'
1996\11\22@024138 by Antti Lukats

flavicon
face
At 11:31 PM 11/19/96 -0600, you wrote:
>Is the Piclist down??
> I have not gotten any mail in quite a while.  In case it is not down, I
guees I
> sould bring up a good topic.. Has anyone started using the
>new 8 pin devices??  I have a Needhams programer and have yet to see a software
> update to support it, so I am looking for alternatives. I have
>2 of the windowed 8 pin dips and would love to start playing with them.  Anyone
> have a cheep programmer that supports them yet?
>         Giles L. Honeycutt
>
PIP02 Software will be updated the day I get my samples of 12Cxx devices.
this sotware is _free_ and supports most DIY programmers available

http://sistudio.com/sistudio/download.html

antti

'PicList Dead?'
1996\11\22@174248 by Rildo Pragana

flavicon
face
OK, I've got your message, here in Brazil.

Rildo

At 03:29 PM 11/21/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Is it just me or is the piclist dead. The listserv says I am still
>subscribed. Can someone e-mail me if they get this message. Thanks!
>
>Martin
>

1996\11\24@114957 by Roy Greason

flavicon
picon face
Hi...

If you get this you can be certain that PICLIST is back with a
vengeance<g>.

Roy.

> Is it just me or is the piclist dead. The listserv says I am still
> subscribed. Can someone e-mail me if they get this message. Thanks!
>
> Martin
>
------------------------------
Roy Greason....
http://www.colours.demon.co.uk
------------------------------

'How to unsubscribe from piclist??'
1996\11\25@042949 by Joseph Tan

flavicon
face
nyone know how to get out of pic list. It is over loading my
mails....
Thank you.

'The PICLIST Fund Report -- 25 November 1996'
1996\11\25@183744 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Dudes:

It's been WAY too long since I posted the last PICLIST Fund update.
Here's the latest information:

The donations have been arriving steadily since I started the Fund,
and it now holds over EIGHT HUNDRED DOLLARS!

The following good people (and a number of others who've requested
anonymity) have contributed to the fund... If the PICLIST improves in
the future, you have them to thank:

   Shel Michaels, Clyde Smith-Stubbs, Reginald Neale, David and
   Wanda Benson/Square-1 Publishing, Don McKenzie/DonTronics, Mike
   Riendeau, Bob Blick, Walter Banks/Byte Craft Limited.

To those of you who've already contributed:

   Thank you!  The money you've donated will really help Jory make
   improvements and additions to the PICLIST.

To those of you who plan to contribute but just haven't gotten around
to it:

   Send those checks today... The Fund doesn't collect MUCH
   interest, but every little bit helps.

To those of you who aren't interested in contributing to the Fund:

   I'm sorry for wasting your time with these Fund Reports... Be
   assured that they'll appear only once every week or two while the
   Fund is open, then never again.

To those of you who have no idea what the Fund is all about:

   The PICLIST Fund FAQ is available on my company's web page:

       http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

   Please read the FAQ and, if you have any questions, feel free to
   send them to me in PRIVATE e-mail.

By the way, there's some new information in the FAQ, so everyone who
hasn't yet contributed should read it before sending a donation.

Remember:  Everyone CAN contribute, but no one HAS to.

Thanks again to everyone who's already contributed to the Fund.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - EraseMEfastfwd@spam@spamix.netcom.com                 ===
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California          ===
===                                                       ===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:  ===
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html ===

'The PICLIST Fund FAQ -- 25 Nov 1996'
1996\11\26@010220 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Frequently-Asked Questions regarding the PICLIST Fund
-----------------------------------------------------

This FAQ is HUGE... How often are you going to be filling my mailbox
with copies of it?

   Approximately once every two weeks while the Fund is open, then
   never again.  The PICLIST generates 20-50 messages per day, so
   this FAQ should represent only a very small percentage of the
   total list traffic.

What is the PICLIST Fund?

   The PICLIST Fund is a means for list members to express, through
   monetary donations, their gratitude to Jory Bell for the work
   he's done. The Fund will be open for donations for six months,
   then it'll be closed and all the collected money will be given
   to Jory.

   Anyone MAY donate to the Fund; no one HAS to.

How will monetary donations help the PICLIST?

   As I mentioned above, Jory Bell's been operating, maintaining,
   and (occasionally) moderating the PICLIST since its inception.
   If you subscribe to the PICLIST, you know that it's particularly
   well-run in comparison to most other lists; Jory's managed to
   make it a truly valuable resource for all of us.

   What you may not know -- mostly because Jory's a modest guy --
   is that he has had to devote a significant amount of his own time
   to operating the list. Unlike the other PIC-related mailing
   lists, the PICLIST isn't being run by a for-profit corporation;
   every hour that Jory's spent on the list has come out of his
   limited personal time.

   Jory's always spent that time freely, and he's never considered
   charging a fee for access to the PICLIST, but it's only right
   that we thank him for the PICLIST, and -- while he certainly
   wouldn't mind receiving an occasional thank-you note in e-mail --
   thank-you notes don't pay the bills.

   Additionally, a number of troubling issues have recently arisen:

     1.  The free MIT list-server that Jory has been using may go
     away, necessitating a switch to a commercial server.

     2.  List-administration and -maintenance requirements have
     grown along with the PICLIST membership (currently, over 1,000
     people subscribe to the list), and Jory's old hardware is
     starting to become overloaded.

     3.  We'd all like to add new peripheral services to the
     PICLIST. In particular, a searchable archive of the messages
     posted to the PICLIST, and a way for list-members to make large
     source-code (or whatever) files accessible to others, would be
     very useful additions.

   Commercial internet service, new hardware, and web pages don't
   come free... Even if someone DONATES the list- or web-hosting
   services, it'd be nice to have some money to support it; the
   PICLIST archives, for example, are very large and the server
   owners would certainly appreciate it if the PICLIST payed for
   its own disk space.

   Also, web-page creation and maintenance is a time-consuming job
   and it's unreasonable to assume that Jory's magnanimity extends
   to performing this thankless task. If a PICLIST web-page were
   created, some of the money collected by the Fund would probably
   go to a part-time Webmaster.

Who's the custodian of the Fund?

   I am.

Why you?

   Why not? Someone had to do it.

   Look... The Fund was my idea; Jory never asked for any money.
   Since I proposed the idea, it didn't seem right to ask anyone
   else to spend his or her time managing the Fund. Also, I've been
   a PICLIST member for a long time, and most members (I hope) feel
   that they can trust me to manage the Fund responsibly. See "How
   do we know you won't take the money and run?" below.

I thought the PICLIST was free. Does this mean that we'll now have
to pay money for access?

   NO!

   Everyone CAN contribute, but no one HAS to. Donations are
   absolutely voluntary; you won't gain any personal privileges on
   the PICLIST if you donate, and you won't lose any if you don't.

   No one will think any less of you if you choose not to contribute
   to the Fund, and if you don't contribute, the list (for as long
   as it's operational) will continue to be available to you for
   free, as it always has been.

   Jory has no intention of transforming the PICLIST into a
   fee-based service; the Fund has been set up for one-time
   voluntary donations only.

What, exactly, will the money be used for?

   I don't know yet, and neither does Jory... Until we have an idea
   of how much money there'll be, it doesn't make much sense to
   decide how to spend it. If you have any specific suggestions,
   however, please send them to me in private email (Jory's busy
   enough already) and I'll pass them along to him.

   All we know right now is that we want to ensure that the PICLIST
   can survive without depending on the generosity of any one
   individual or corporation. If we can also expand the PICLIST to
   include auxiliary services like a list-member FTP site for
   distributing code samples, list archives, etc., that'd be great,
   too.

   One thing that you CAN be sure of is that ALL of the money will
   go to Jory... I'm DONATING the time and effort required to
   maintain the Fund; NO PORTION of the money is going to me.

What if we donate our money and the list disappears anyway? Will
there be any refunds?

   No.  The Fund is primarily a vehicle for expressing our gratitude
   to Jory for work that he's ALREADY done... While there's a strong
   expectation that he'll spend the Fund money on improvements to
   the PICLIST, there's no guarantee that he'll do so.

   This doesn't bother me (or any of the people who've already
   contributed to the Fund) in the least.

So how do we know that Jory won't just take the money and run?

   We don't.  The money in the Fund will be given to Jory WITH NO
   STRINGS ATTACHED, so there are NO GUARANTEES as to the use to
   which he'll put it.

   If this makes you uncomfortable, do as the other contributors
   have done and try to think of your donation as an expression of
   gratitude for information you've ALREADY received from the list.

   If you still feel uncomfortable, please don't donate.

How do we know that YOU won't take the money and run?

   I guess you don't, really... But keep in mind that I run a
   business whose success depends largely on my personal
   reputation. It wouldn't make much sense for me to risk that
   reputation for a sum of money that I expect will amount to less
   than what my business generates every couple of weeks.

   If it helps, I'll be happy to tell any potential contributor how
   to get in touch with an officer at the bank where the PICLIST
   Fund account is located... Just send me private e-mail.

How do I donate to the Fund?

   I've set up an account at a local bank specifically for the
   PICLIST Fund. The bank doesn't want to receive checks directly,
   so if you'd like to contribute, please send checks only (I don't
   want to deal with cash or credit cards) to the following address:

       The PICLIST Fund
       c/o Fast Forward Engineering
       1984 Casablanca Court
       Vista, CA  92083-5043
       USA

   IMPORTANT:

      Make checks payable to "Andrew Warren and Jory Bell".

      Both of our signatures will be required in order for any funds
      to be withdrawn from the account, so this shouldn't make anyone
      nervous.

      Please endorse the back of the check as follows:

          For Deposit Only
          Andrew Warren and Jory Bell
          Union Bank
          Acct #0923012314

      Please include your e-mail address with your check.

      If you want your donation to be anonymous (as far as the rest
      of the list is concerned), please include a note to that
      effect.

Is my donation tax-deductible as a "charitable contribution to a
non-profit organization"?

   No.  For income-tax-reporting purposes, Jory will probably
   report it as "gift income".

How much should I donate?

   As much as you feel is appropriate.

   I don't think it's improper to recognize those who dig a little
   deeper, however, so I've come up with the following three-tiered
   "contributor-level" suggestions:

       LEVEL:    AMOUNT:               EXPLANATION:
      ---------------------------------------------------------------

      FRIEND      $10    If you're a Student, you should be able to
      (Student)          afford $10.  This is less than the cost of
                         one audio compact disc or a tank of
                         gasoline, and it's not much more than the
                         quantity-one retail price of a PIC16C84.

      FRIEND      $30    If a Student can afford $10, anyone with a
      (Employed)         job should be able to afford $30.

      PATRON:     $50    A decent programming reference book costs
                         at least this much.  If you've received as
                         much useful information from the list as
                         you might reasonably expect to find in the
                         average textbook and want to show your
                         gratitude, this is the way.

      GOD:        $75    Many of us have actually profited financially
                         from the list, either through help that
                         other list-members gave us with our
                         commercial products or through sales of
                         development software and hardware that
                         we've advertised on the list.  If you fall
                         into this category, a $75 donation
                         shouldn't significantly affect your
                         balance sheet.

   Note that contributing at a particular level doesn't actually
   MEAN anything... Sorry, but you won't receive a commemorative
   T-shirt or coffee mug even if you donate at the "God" level.

I don't live in the USA. Can I contribute with a check drawn on
funds other than US dollars?

   Yes.  The bank assures me that no fees will be charged for
   currency conversion. However, you should check with your bank to
   ensure that YOU won't be charged a fee if your check is converted
   to US dollars.

I have more questions about the Fund. To whom should I send them?

   Jory and I are in contact, but he's not involved in the
   day-to-day running of the Fund. It'd be best, therefore, to send
   your questions directly to me at spamBeGonefastfwdKILLspamspamix.netcom.com.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - KILLspamfastfwdspam.....ix.netcom.com                 ===
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California          ===
===                                                       ===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:  ===
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html ===


'Out of Office AutoReply: PICLIST Digest - 1 Dec 19'
1996\12\03@003622 by Odland, Keith
flavicon
face
Hi.

I will be out of the office until the afternoon of Friday, Dec. 6.

Have a nice day.

Keith

'HELP!!! How do you get off the piclist?'
1996\12\05@220617 by Cameron Palmer

picon face
How do you get off this merry-go-round?

'How to you get off the piclist.'
1996\12\06@110235 by Nubee

flavicon
face
Cameron Palmer wrote:
>
> How do you get off this merry-go-round?


Please save this message for future  reference, especially if you are
not familiar with LISTSERV.  This might look like a waste  of disk
space now, but in  6 months  you will be  glad you saved  this
information when you realize that  you cannot remember what  are the
lists you  are subscribed to, or  what is the command  to leave the
list to avoid filling  up your mailbox while you are on vacations. In
fact, you should create a new mail folder for subscription
confirmation messages  like this one, and for the "welcome  messages"
from the  list  owners  that you will occasionally receive after
subscribing to a new list.

To send  a message to  all the people  currently subscribed to  the
list, just send mail to PICLISTEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU. This is called
"sending mail to the list", because  you send mail to a single
address and LISTSERV makes copies   for  all   the  people   who  have
subscribed.  This   address (KILLspamPICLISTspamBeGonespamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU)  is also  called
the "list  address". You  must never try to send any command to that
address, as it would be distributed to all the people  who have
subscribed. All commands must  be sent to the "LISTSERV address",
KILLspamLISTSERVspam_OUTspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU (or spamLISTSERVEraseMEspamMITVMA.BITNET).  It is  very
important to understand  the difference between the  two, but
fortunately it  is not complicated.  The LISTSERV  address is like  a
FAX number,  and  the list  address  is  like a  normal  phone  line.
If  you accidentally  make  your  FAX  call  someone's  voice  line,
the  person receiving the  call will be annoyed.  If you do this
regularly, however, your  victim will  probably  get seriously  upset
and  send  you a  nasty complaint. It  is the same with  mailing
lists, with the  difference that you are calling  hundreds or
thousands of  people at the same  time, so a lot more people get
annoyed if you use the wrong number.

You may leave the list at any time by sending a "SIGNOFF PICLIST"
command
to @spam@LISTSERVspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU (or LISTSERVspam@spam@MITVMA.BITNET). You can also
tell
LISTSERV how you want  it to confirm the receipt of  messages you send
to
the list.  If you  do not trust  the system, send  a "SET  PICLIST
REPRO"
command and LISTSERV will  send you a copy of your  own messages, so
that
you can see that  the message was distributed and did  not get damaged
on
the  way. After  a while  you  may find  that this  is getting
annoying,
especially if  your mail program  does not tell  you that the  message
is
from you when it  informs you that new mail has  arrived from PICLIST.
If
you send  a "SET PICLIST ACK  NOREPRO" command, LISTSERV will  mail
you a
short acknowledgement instead, which will  look different in your
mailbox
directory. With most mail programs you will know immediately that this
is
an  acknowledgement  you  can  read  later. Finally,  you  can  turn
off
acknowledgements completely with "SET PICLIST NOACK NOREPRO".

Following  instructions from  the list  owner, your  subscription
options
have been set  to "CONCEAL" rather than the usual  LISTSERV defaults.
For
more  information  about subscription  options,  send  a "QUERY
PICLIST"
command to spamLISTSERVRemoveMEspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU (or STOPspamLISTSERVEraseMEspamMITVMA.BITNET).

Contributions sent to this list are automatically archived. You can
get a
list of the available archive files by sending an "INDEX PICLIST"
command
to  @spam@LISTSERV@spam@spamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU  (or  .....LISTSERVKILLspamspamEraseMEMITVMA.BITNET). You  can
then
order  these  files  with  a  "GET PICLIST  LOGxxxx"  command,  or
using
LISTSERV's database  search facilities.  Send an "INFO  DATABASE"
command
for more information on the latter.

More  information on  LISTSERV  commands  can be  found  in the
LISTSERV
reference  card, which  you can  retrieve  by sending  an "INFO
REFCARD"
command to EraseMELISTSERVTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU (or KILLspamLISTSERVspamRemoveMEMITVMA.BITNET).

'HELP!!! How do you get off the piclist?'
1996\12\07@034111 by michele

flavicon
face
Hi Cameron,
Have you received my zif socket?
i've send it, more or less, one month ago.
Please let me know if it's arrived.
Thanks

Michele

'Piclist ok?'
1996\12\11@014111 by Oyvind Kaurstad

flavicon
face
Is the list up and about?
I haven't received any messages for two days now.

-Oyvind

'PICLIST Digest - 14 Dec 1996 to 15 Dec 1996'
1996\12\16@144202 by Pekka Ritamaki

flavicon
face
Maybe this is out of PIC discussion range, but I have used SIMTEK STK12C88 (
32*8 nvSRAM)  ( 28pins DIL).
It is like SRAM, but it has EEPROM mirror. RAM is moved to permanent ( =
nonvolatile) part by store and read commands under sowtware calls.
I have tried these in my 8051-project.

I have not visited in their homeplace http://www.csn.net/simtek or
or http://simtek.com/simtek/docs/ProductList.html. I do not got any
responces from these addresses somehow.

They also have hardware Autostore-products ie.after power down they
automatically store RAM to EEPROM. They need 100uF power capacitor and tree
resistors to detect power down. They promiced to deliver first 32k*8
autostore device for me for christmas. Let's see..
Pekka

Pekka Ritamaki PROBYTE Oy Nirvankatu 31
FIN-33820 TAMPERE Finland http://www.sci.fi/~pri
Electronics product design: hardware+software+development tools
phone INT +358-3-2661885 fax INT +358-3-2661886

'Are the PICLIST TOPICS searchable in an archive?'
1996\12\18@192827 by Customized Controller Solutions

flavicon
face
Hello,

Are the PICLIST TOPICS searchable in an archive?

How would this be done.  I've looked at the REFCARD.  Could have
missed it.

Thanks in advance for the reply.

Brent

1996\12\18@203318 by MSI: Sean Cunningham

flavicon
face
I spent some time this morning figuring out how to do this, it isn't
exactly intuitive.

To search past postings, send a msg to

listservTakeThisOuTspamspam_OUTmitvma.mit.edu

with something similar to the following in the body

Database Search DD=Rules
//Rules DD *
Search ("IR" or "I.R" or "INFRA") in PICLIST
INDEX

The index command will send back a list of article #s that match your
criteria, including subject lines.  Then, to retrieve certain messages,
send this:

Database Search DD=Rules
//Rules DD *
Search ("IR" or "I.R" or "INFRA") in PICLIST
print body of 007411 007415 007416 007420 007431

{Quote hidden}


'PICLIST'
1997\01\01@233816 by LEE
picon face
Andy wrote:
>The PICLIST was founded by Jory Bell; I'm just a list-subscriber
>like everyone else.

Sorry for the mistake, Andy and Jory!

Andy, could you tell me how the PICLIST works and where does the funding
come from? Does it have any connection with MIT? Just tell me some history/
background of PICLIST.  Some subscribers might want to know too! Thank you.

LEE

1997\01\04@130005 by Mike Braddock

flavicon
face
please delete me from the list

'Converting the piclist to a newsgroup.'
1997\01\07@155626 by Ian Stirling

flavicon
picon face
Would anyone object to me posting an RFD (request for discussion)
for such a group?
Perhaps under comp.arch.embedded.pic?
comp.arch.embedded currently gets slightly fewer spam/off topic posts
than
the piclist currently does.
For more  information on the steps involved in making a new newsgroup,
have a look at the newsgroup news.announce.newgroups

1997\01\07@171205 by peter

flavicon
face
Ian Stirling wrote:
>
> Would anyone object to me posting an RFD (request for discussion)
> for such a group?
> Perhaps under comp.arch.embedded.pic?
> comp.arch.embedded currently gets slightly fewer spam/off topic posts
> than
> the piclist currently does.
> For more  information on the steps involved in making a new newsgroup,
> have a look at the newsgroup news.announce.newgroups

Yes I object
--
Peter Cousens
email: EraseMEpeter@spam@spamTakeThisOuTcousens.her.forthnet.gr
snailmail: Peter Cousens, karteros, Heraklion, Crete, 75100, Greece,
phone: + 3081 380534,    +3081 324450   voice/fax

After Bill Gates announced to the world that he was Microsoft,
his wife was asked to comment. She said that as his wife, she
had been the first to notice this problem

1997\01\07@173058 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> Would anyone object to me posting an RFD (request for discussion)
> for such a group?

Well there have been several discussions about newsgroups and the
PICLIST. Personally if the newsgroup isn't related to the LIST, go right
ahead.

> Perhaps under comp.arch.embedded.pic?

Sounds fine to me.

> comp.arch.embedded currently gets slightly fewer spam/off topic posts
> than
> the piclist currently does.

Well mailing lists and newsgroups are quite a bit different.

The real issue is whether or not there's going to be a gateway between
the list and the newsgroup. If so then there are quite a few issues to
talk about.

BAJ

1997\01\08@044947 by Wolfram Liebchen

flavicon
face
At 14:26 07.01.97 +0000, you wrote:
>Would anyone object to me posting an RFD (request for discussion)
>for such a group?
>

I would not be able to follow a newsgroup, because our institution allows
only email and WWW.

Wolfram


+-----------------------------------------------------+
| Wolfram Liebchen                                    |
| Forschungsinstitut fŸr Optik, TŸbingen, Deutschland |
| spamBeGoneliebchenSTOPspamspamspam_OUTffo.fgan.de                         |
+-----------------------------------------------------+

1997\01\08@055326 by Inge Arnesen

flavicon
face
> At 14:26 07.01.97 +0000, you wrote:
> >Would anyone object to me posting an RFD (request for discussion)
> >for such a group?
> >
>
> I would not be able to follow a newsgroup, because our institution allows
> only email and WWW.

There are at least two solutions to that problem:

- Have a WWW interface for the newsgroup at some site (this is common
 for mailing list archives)

- Have a mailing list in addition to a newsgroup. That way those of
 us who prefer a newsgroup can use that, and those who prefer the
 mailing list can keep using that.

There are some obvious pro's for having a newsgroup.


Regards,

Bob (tm)

1997\01\08@082533 by arry P. Thomas WA0GWA

flavicon
face
For my 2 cents, I,m not in favor of a newsgroup. As it is "Eudora Pro"
receives the mail throughout the day and drops it into its own mail box
which look at as I have time.  I would not follow a newsgroup.
Larry
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Larry P. Thomas wa0gwa              voice : 1 913 888-0282
Krell Technologies                    fax : 1 913 782-9359
8960 Bond                           pager : 1 816 989-HELP
Overland Park, KS 66214-1764       e-mail : .....lpthomas@spam@spamRemoveMEwinning-edge.com
                                      www : http://www.krell.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

1997\01\08@093043 by Roger Books

flavicon
face
I have no objections either way as I currently read and post to several
newsgroups, however...  for those that either don't currently read
usenet news, or don't post much, there is currently a rapidly growing
and rather annoying problem.  There are net-marketting individuals that
download usenet headers and use the e-mail addresses from that to send
out their garbage.  I currently recieve 10-15 UCE's (Unsolicited
Commercial E-mails) a day, and it seems to be gradually getting worse.  If
you do make a newsgroup I would really recommend not gating the list to
it as the list insulates many from this spam.  Of course, if you are an
occasional reader of the list the volume is rather heavy and is almost
as good as a spam.

However, when was the last time you read about CD-R prices on the
piclist?  When was the last time someone tried to start a flamewar?

Roger

1997\01\08@123312 by Conor O'Rourke

flavicon
face
> For my 2 cents, I,m not in favor of a newsgroup. As it is "Eudora Pro"
> receives the mail throughout the day and drops it into its own mail box
> which look at as I have time.  I would not follow a newsgroup.
> Larry

Hmmm. I just resubscribed after two months and this thread is here again.
Might as well add my 2pence worth......
A newsgroup is a bit silly and you lose the high signal to noise ratio
of a mailing list. It was decided many times not to have a newsgroup but
I do think it might be nice to have a www page with pic 'threads' on it.
Easyish to implement - just write a script to copy your mail to a database
of some sort. Use GLIMPSE or something similar or write your own...
I'd do it myself but I don't have a server to play with :-) <excuse.h>
I'm on a VAX here and the mail software is a bit limited and it
might be nice to use the web instead.

Conor.

1997\01\08@181840 by Martin J. Maney

flavicon
face
On Wed, 8 Jan 1997, Inge Arnesen wrote:

> There are some obvious pro's for having a newsgroup.

Such as being able to use readers designed to deal with c. 100 messages
per day.

Just a convenient point to say that I would favor creation of a
PIC-oriented news group; like others, I don't think it should have any
automatic bridge to the mail list.

'Any female piclist members?'
1997\01\09@020433 by Werner Terreblanche

flavicon
face
Something has been bothering me for a long time now... I keep looking
at the names of people posting to this list to see if there are any
female members on this list, but so far I've not seen a single one.
Its just interesting that women don't seem to be interested in these
things, even though 10-20% of electronic engineers are female. That
means that we should have at least 50-100 piclist members.  What's
wrong here?  Has anybody got any theories about this pheonomena?

And if there are any female Piclist member reading this, please know
that I am VERY impressed. And please tell us that you are here!  :)

Rgds
Werner

'PICLIST Digest - 7 Jan 1997 to 8 Jan 1997'
1997\01\09@030553 by Michel Van den Bergh

flavicon
face
I vote for conversion into a newsgroup!

Michel

--


                           _-|||||-_
                          ///\\\\\\\\
                          |  o   o  |
+------------------------OOOO--\_/--OOOO--------------------------+
| Michel Van den Bergh          |   Phone     : 32-11-26.82.27    |
| Limburgs Universitair Centrum |   Fax       : 32-11-26.82.99    |
| Departement WNI               |   Email     : spamBeGonevdbergh.....spamspam_OUTluc.ac.be |
| Universitaire Campus          |                                 |
| 3590 Diepenbeek               |                                 |
+ Belgium                       |                                 |
+-------------------------------+---------------------------------+
|         Home Page : http://www.luc.ac.be/Research/Algebra/      |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------+
THE ULTIMATE ANSWER TO EVERY SOCIAL PROBLEM IS...  PUT EDUCATION FIRST!!!

-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6

mQCNAjJyBdsAAAEEANu0Bjy1qbeo26i+8t83efjTz/JaRK2wONzYe8VBviYBu6Hz
qV+3i3dI3cqduZGahy+VkW1/FlUq33UlPvgr1H+Rjowv6PgW+gI1eW8s/nWxlcV7
bDPhA8GyyE7Z3yOyujtrLNY9oMug7qS+mWdh8KX1zhUdP3ur4QITnvecHulBAAUR
tChNaWNoZWwgVmFuIGRlbiBCZXJnaCA8dmRiZXJnaEBsdWMuYWMuYmU+
=sHDG
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----

1997\01\09@044956 by efoc

flavicon
face
Michel Van den Bergh wrote:
>
> I vote for conversion into a newsgroup!
>
> Michel
>


And I vote against.

       I have several POP3 mail boxes and I direct my Listserver output to one
of them. This keeps the noise down on the others and I still get ALL the
gossip without having to activly go and wade through all the cruft
normaly found on newsgroups.


Peter .......


==================================
= New Ideas come from those who  =
= didn't know it wasn't possible =
==================================

1997\01\09@045405 by Laszlo Kohegyi

flavicon
face
Hello,

I vote for leaving it as is, as I have some group acces problem.

Les,

'Any female piclist members?'
1997\01\09@072951 by S.I.Woolley

picon face
> And if there are any female Piclist member reading this, please know
> that I am VERY impressed. And please tell us that you are here!  :)
> Rgds
>Werner

I am a new PICLIST member and I'm reporting in as female :-).   I'm
not sure if you should be VERY impressed or not - but thank you for
making me feel welcome.

I am quite new to PICs - but I'm working very hard.  I am a lecturer
at Birmingham University, U.K.  I am running a new (short) course on
the PIC (replacing the Z80) to our 2nd yr undergradutes later this
term.  We'll be using the PIC16C84 in the lab.  I have had much
support from David Tait at Manchester, Bob Barnes in Australia and
others from the PIC 'community.'

I'd be very interested to hear from anyone who knows of another
university course covering the PIC.  There will be only two
supervised labs - so we're keeping the projects very simple.  But the
great thing about the PIC is the low cost of development - so that
students can buy their experimental boards for just a few U.K pounds.
If you've heard of anything similar please let me know.

And, finally, I'd love to hear from other females too.

Kind regards
Sandra

'PICLIST Digest - 7 Jan 1997 to 8 Jan 1997'
1997\01\09@083117 by Juan Jose Abba

flavicon
face
Hy,

My  vote is for leaving the list as is.

Juan

'Converting the piclist to a newsgroup.'
1997\01\09@120637 by John Piccirillo

flavicon
face
>From:    Wolfram Liebchen <liebchen@spam@spamspamBeGoneFFO.FGAN.DE>
>Subject: Re: Converting  the piclist to a newsgroup.

>I would not be able to follow a newsgroup, because our institution allows
>only email and WWW.

  Me too (I also).

John-

'Any female piclist members?'
1997\01\09@123930 by Craig Knotts

flavicon
face
    I don't have any statistics to back it up, but I think in the US, the
    ratio is closer to 5% women engineers.  Almost every engineer I know
    is male.  It's easy to get caught in the trap that engineers are all
    men, even though that obviously isn't true.


______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Any female piclist members?
Author:  spamBeGonewterrebEraseMEspamPLESSEY.CO.ZA at internet
Date:    1/9/97 4:11 AM


Something has been bothering me for a long time now... I keep looking
at the names of people posting to this list to see if there are any
female members on this list, but so far I've not seen a single one.
Its just interesting that women don't seem to be interested in these
things, even though 10-20% of electronic engineers are female. That
means that we should have at least 50-100 piclist members.  What's
wrong here?  Has anybody got any theories about this pheonomena?

And if there are any female Piclist member reading this, please know
that I am VERY impressed. And please tell us that you are here!  :)

Rgds
Werner

'Converting the piclist to a newsgroup.'
1997\01\09@124345 by robin.abbott

flavicon
face
No I don't object, in fact I would welcome it. Could we not
organise some kind of vote ?

Robin



+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+
|                                                                       |
|   robin.abbottspamspamBeGonedial.pipex.com                                         |
|                                                                       |
|  PIC programmers and BASIC development systems from                   |
|    FOREST Electronic Developments. Visit our home page at             |
|                                                                       |
|      http://www.ibmpcug.co.uk/~gmwarner/fed.htm                       |
+-----------------------------------------------------------------------+

1997\01\09@140432 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
>Would anyone object to me posting an RFD (request for discussion)
>for such a group?

My personal preference is to keep this as a mailing list.  I do not follow
newsgroups regularily because of the exceedingly high noise content that
most of them seem to have.

Dwayne

'ENOUGH, DAMMIT! (was: "Re: Converting the piclist'
1997\01\09@151029 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Dudes:

The newsgroup-versus-maillist thread pops up here about once every
six months... Each time, the OVERWHELMING concensus is that no one
wants to "convert" the list to a newsgroup.

Moreover, there are strong arguments even against forming an
automated "gateway" connection between the list and a newsgroup...
Automatically copying to the list all the crap that'll appear on the
newsgroup will give us the worst of both worlds, and copying in the
other direction will put all the list-members' e-mail addresses out
in the open where they can be added to junk-mail mailing lists.

If anyone wants to start a PIC-centric newsgroup, that's fine... Just
go to news.announce.newsgroups and start the process.  But don't
expect to find a lot of support here for any connection between the
existing list and that newsgroup.

Oh... And whatever you do, please don't ever ask for a "vote" here
on the list (on this or any other topic) without an explicit
instruction -- repeated a couple of times in all caps, preferably --
that all votes are to be sent to you in PRIVATE e-mail rather than to
the list at large.  There are over 1200 members of the PICLIST; no
one wants to read "I agree" or "I vote no" messages from each of
them.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - spam_OUTfastfwdKILLspamspam.....ix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'Any female piclist members?'
1997\01\09@160134 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Werner Terreblanche <STOPspamPICLISTRemoveMEspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Something has been bothering me for a long time now... I keep
> looking at the names of people posting to this list to see if there
> are any female members on this list, but so far I've not seen a
> single one. Its just interesting that women don't seem to be
> interested in these things

Werner:

Actually, there are a lot of women working in technical capacities at
Microchip.

MPSIM was written by a woman named Feranak Nelson and MPASM,
although originally written by Walter Banks at Bytecraft, was later
supported by Christine DeLacrosse (I THINK I have her last name
correct) and has since been almost completely rewritten by Kim
Cooper, who's now responsible for it.  Kim's also done a lot of work
on the MPLAB-C compiler, and she's written a bunch of software for
Microchip's other development tools as well.

Kim's on the list; the others were here at one point but may have
unsubscribed.

-Andy

Andrew Warren - @spam@fastfwdspam_OUTspamix.netcom.com
Fast Forward Engineering, Vista, California
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499

'Converting the piclist to a newsgroup'
1997\01\09@182716 by Eric Smith

flavicon
face
Andrew Warren <RemoveMEfastfwd.....spamspamBeGoneIX.NETCOM.COM> wrote:
> The newsgroup-versus-maillist thread pops up here about once every
> six months... Each time, the OVERWHELMING concensus is that no one
> wants to "convert" the list to a newsgroup.
...
> Oh... And whatever you do, please don't ever ask for a "vote" here
> on the list (on this or any other topic) without an explicit
> instruction -- repeated a couple of times in all caps, preferably --
> that all votes are to be sent to you in PRIVATE e-mail rather than to
> the list at large.  There are over 1200 members of the PICLIST; no
> one wants to read "I agree" or "I vote no" messages from each of
> them.

Since most of us are sick of this stupid thread, and don't want to see it
in the PICLIST any more, I have created a new mailing list to be used for all
future discussions of whether the PICLIST should be replaced by a newsgroup,
and all voting on that issue.  The address of the new list is
       spam_OUTpiclist-replacement-newsgroup-listKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTbrouhaha.com> To subscribe to this list, send a private message to
       
piclist-replacement-newsgroup-list-request.....spam.....brouhaha.com

Be forewarned that no discussions or voting that takes place on the
piclist-replacement-newsgroup-list will be binding in any way.

Henceforth, if people try to bring up this topic again in the PICLIST,
please notify them via private email that they should use the
piclist-replacement-newsgroup-list instead.

Eric

'An Addition -- re: Any female piclist members?'
1997\01\10@003427 by fastfwd

face
flavicon
face
Dudes:

In my last chicks-with-PICs message, I failed to mention Kim Gibson,
who's the Microchip engineer in charge of re-engineering MPLAB-C.

When MPLAB-C v2.0 is released later this year, you'll have her to
thank.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - TakeThisOuTfastfwdspamspamix.netcom.com                 ===
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California          ===
===                                                       ===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:  ===
=== http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html ===

'PICLIST Digest - 8 Jan 1997 to 9 Jan 1997'
1997\01\10@025250 by Michel Van den Bergh

flavicon
face
> From:    Keith Dowsett <KILLspamkdowsett@spam@spamKILLspamRPMS.AC.UK>
> I would prefer retaining the existing list (Thanks Jory for all the work
> keeping it clean.) and perhaps copying it to a news group. Submissions would
> still have to go through the list (and could be limited to subscribers) but
> the messages could be read either way.

This seems like a good idea. In this way everybody should be happy.

Michel

'Any female piclist members?'
1997\01\10@081202 by uardo Tropea (SET)

flavicon
face
Hi Werner:

> Something has been bothering me for a long time now... I keep looking
> at the names of people posting to this list to see if there are any
> female members on this list, but so far I've not seen a single one.
I had the same question in my mind some month ago, but I didn't make
it to the list.

> Its just interesting that women don't seem to be interested in these
> things, even though 10-20% of electronic engineers are female. That
Not true here in Argentina, in my University the number is between 2
and 4%. Very different to the Informatics carreer.

> means that we should have at least 50-100 piclist members.  What's
> wrong here?  Has anybody got any theories about this pheonomena?
Mine theory is related to the machist primary education system.

> And if there are any female Piclist member reading this, please know
> that I am VERY impressed. And please tell us that you are here!  :)
Shure must be ... or I'm wrong?

SET
--------------- 0 --------------------------------
Salvador Eduardo Tropea (SET).
Address: Curapaligue 2124, Caseros, 3 de Febrero
Buenos Aires, (1678), ARGENTINA
TE: +(541) 759 0013

'Converting the piclist to a newsgroup.'
1997\01\11@051914 by Mwa.Dekkers

flavicon
face
Yes to Newsgroup !

This way, your mailbox does not get trashed / filled up  and other mail
will not get lost.

'Any female piclist members?'
1997\01\11@052948 by Mwa.Dekkers

flavicon
face
So THIS is the garbage i receive when i assign to a technical discussion
list ?


Please please  : stay on the technical track !

1997\01\12@061137 by Frank

flavicon
picon face
In message <32D76AFD.3F70spam_OUTspamKILLspaminter.nl.net>, "Max Dekkers,ri"
<EraseMEMwa.Dekkers@spam@spamTakeThisOuTNET.HCC.NL> writes
>So THIS is the garbage i receive when i assign to a technical discussion
>list ?
>
>
>Please please  : stay on the technical track !




Chill out and take your H.R.T.
--
Frank

Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, spamBeGoneinfoEraseMEspamspamBeGoneturnpike.com

1997\01\12@193601 by Martin J. Maney

flavicon
face
On Sun, 12 Jan 1997, Frank wrote:

> <Mwa.DekkersEraseMEspamNET.HCC.NL> writes
> >So THIS is the garbage i receive when i assign to a technical discussion
> >list ?
> >
> >Please please  : stay on the technical track !
>
> Chill out and take your H.R.T.

I have to agree somewhat with Frank: this is the sort of thing that makes
me wonder about those whose argument against a newsgroup is that the S/N
here is so wonderful.  But then I'm always a little bemused by folks who
ask about gender in a sexless electronic forum like this; likewise age,
appearance, etc.

Martin "One man's signal is another man's noise/(repeat)" Maney

1997\01\13@095656 by Mike

flavicon
face
Chill out and take your H.R.T.
>
>I have to agree somewhat with Frank: this is the sort of thing that makes
>me wonder about those whose argument against a newsgroup is that the S/N
>here is so wonderful.  But then I'm always a little bemused by folks who
>ask about gender in a sexless electronic forum like this; likewise age,
>appearance, etc.
>
>Martin "One man's signal is another man's noise/(repeat)" Maney

I suppose one reason for asking about female members is to ensure we are
tactful should we enter into any discussion about PICs used for - err
personal 'hand-held' items  -  some of which are also pleasurable to work
on - ie design :}

Rgds


Mike

Adam and Eve Virus:  Takes a couple of bytes out of your Apple.

'PICLIST'
1997\01\16@173458 by Mike Braddock

flavicon
face
Please delete me from the list

'Piclist and WWW - Don't worry not another newgroup'
1997\01\17@150053 by Conor O'Rourke

flavicon
face
Well that's interesting,

I've just found a mail archive of the piclist in html format.
I hope the author doesn't mind me giving the url:

http://cdr.stanford.edu/people/luehrb/up/pic

Quite good. Have a look. Not all at once now!


Conor.

1997\01\17@172050 by Todd Peterson

picon face
At 08:01 PM 1/17/97 +0000, you wrote:
>Well that's interesting,
>
>I've just found a mail archive of the piclist in html format.
>I hope the author doesn't mind me giving the url:
>
>http://cdr.stanford.edu/people/luehrb/up/pic
>
>Quite good. Have a look. Not all at once now!

Brian Luehrs deserves a fair amount of praise for this.  Are you on this
list, Brian?  Why didn't you tell us about your page?

Hopefully you have some sort of a 'bot updating the page and you don't have
to do it yourself.  Are you planning on keeping this site up in the future
so we can all dump our growing acrhive of the PICLIST from our hard drives?

       -Todd.



____________________________________

Todd Peterson (tpetersonspamnetins.net)
 E-LAB Digital Engineering, Inc.
        (712) 944-5344

Embedded Control &
 Integrated Circuit Solutions

ELECTRONICS RESOURCE DIRECTORY at:
http://www.netins.net/showcase/elab

'PICLIST Digest - 16 Jan 1997 to 17 Jan 1997'
1997\01\18@051159 by Michel Van den Bergh

flavicon
face
Date:    Fri, 17 Jan 1997 20:31:57 -0600
From:    John Payson <RemoveMEsupercatEraseMEspamspamBeGoneMCS.NET>
Subject: Re: pic16c84 SAMPLE PROGRAM?


>  While I would not recommend leaving a PIC
> reverse-connected to such a supply for very long, PICs can--from my
> experience--survive brief power-up attempts with even more than that.

True !  I inversely connected a pic to a 650mA power supply for about
2 seconds and it seems to have survived!

Michel

'All you South Africans PIClisters out there (or he'
1997\01\26@232311 by tjaart

flavicon
face
Wow!

After my last request for help, I realised how many local yokels
we have on the list. If all the South African PIClisters could
mail me their addresses, I'll set up a list of local PIC users,
and mail it back to everybody who responded.

Perhaps we could use some collective PICpower on the local uChip
folks.

Local is lekka

--
Friendly Regards

Tjaart van der Walt
______________________________________________________________
|  Another sun-deprived R&D Engineer slaving away in a dungeon |
|WASP International GSM vehicle tracking and datacomm solutions|
|+27-(0)11-622-8686 |  http://wasp.co.za   | RemoveMEtjaartSTOPspamspamwasp.co.za |
|______________________________________________________________|

'PICLIST Digest - 28 Jan 1997 to 29 Jan 1997'
1997\01\30@142710 by Richard A. Smith

flavicon
face
>I have a project where I need a BIG scrolling-type display.  Big meaning
>with text about 4-6" tall and 20 or so characters (or more) wide, ideally
>with two lines possible.  It has to be bright (for viewing in very bright
>ambient light).  I thought of building one with discreet LED's and
>controlling with PIC's but what a chore that will be.  Does anyone know
>where/who sells these already built?  OR anyone ever made one of these
>

Scott,

I am not sure if these are big enought for you but Capital Electronics has
signs for sale on thier web page.  http://www.capital-elec.com  I have never
bought any so I can't vouch for anyting.
--
Richard A. Smith, Alpha Geek
RemoveMEras2spamtant.com


'How to terminate PICLIST'
1997\02\10@105822 by John Dammeyer
flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

Pioneers are the ones, face down in the mud,
with arrows in their backs.
Automation Artisans Inc.      Ph. 1-250-544-4950
PO Box 20002                  Fax 1-250-544-4954
Sidney, BC CANADA V8L 5C9

'PICLIST Digest - 11 Feb 1997 to 12 Feb 1997'
1997\02\13@052343 by Michel Van den Bergh

flavicon
face
All this discussion on code protection got me verry worried. I seem to recall
that if you accidentally code protect a 16C84 then you can still undo
it. It would be nice if somebody could confirm that this is actually
true. Also, what PICs CANNOT be unprotected ?

Regards, Michel

1997\02\13@064517 by tim

flavicon
face
On Thu, 13 Feb 1997 11:22:39 +0100, you wrote:

>All this discussion on code protection got me verry worried. I seem to recall
>that if you accidentally code protect a 16C84 then you can still undo
>it. It would be nice if somebody could confirm that this is actually
>true. Also, what PICs CANNOT be unprotected ?

I have, on many occasions, set the code protect bit on a 16C84, blown
it, and then undone it all. Unless Microchip have changed the '84 in the
last year or so to prevent this then it definitely can be done. I dunno
about the other devices though.


    /\_/\
   / o o \        
  (== ^ ==)
    ) - (
   ( ) ( )
 ( ( ) ( ) )
 (_(_)_(_)_)

'subscribe PICLIST'
1997\02\19@145730 by hans.hansen

flavicon
face
    Hans Hansen

'PICLIST Digest - 26 Feb 1997 to 27 Feb 1997'
1997\02\28@035712 by John Fairall

flavicon
face
PCMCIA card adapter for PICMASTER
============================

The new adapter is now avaialble to provide a direct link between the
PICMASTER pod and a PCMCIA interface card, via a single interconnecting
cable. So at long last PICMASTER uses can have the benfit of operating from
their noteboo PC!
<http://www.rfsolutions.co.uk>

<http://www.rfsolutions.co.uk>


'Help on comms and IRQ's please
1997\03\02@172145 by Alex I. Torres
flavicon
face
  Hi All PICers !

> From: Ken Dougal <spamslm5gspam_OUTspamcc.usu.edu>
> Subject:      Help on comms and IRQ's please

> My mouse is on comm 1, IRQ4
> My modem is on Comm 2, IRQ3
>
> So can I connect something to Comm 3 or 4 if they use the
> same IRQs as Comm 1 & 2 ?????

To COM4, of course.
Yes,your modem at com2 and your device at com4 shared the
same IRQ3, but (I sure :) not at the SAME time.
Against this, your mouse work all time so you don't use
com3 because IRQ4 is busy.

  Best Wishes, Alex Torres.
  Kharkov, Ukraine, exUSSR.
  E-Mail To : spamBeGonealtorspamspamcook.kharkov.ua   via InterNet
              or 2:461/28             via FidoNet

P.S. I also have mouse at com1, ext.moem at com2 and varios devices,
I connect to com4.
--- GoldED 2.50.A0531+

'piclist subcription'
1997\03\06@211203 by Mike Braddock

flavicon
face
Mike Braddock wrote:
>
> Mike Braddock wrote:
> >
> > unsubscribe<mike braddock>

1997\03\06@211208 by Mike Braddock

flavicon
face
Mike Braddock wrote:
>
> Mike Braddock wrote:
> >
> > unsubscribe piclist<mike braddock>

1997\03\06@211210 by Mike Braddock

flavicon
face
Mike Braddock wrote:
>
> Mike Braddock wrote:
> >
> > unsubscribe piclist <mike.braddock>

1997\03\07@081028 by Vishram sarurkar

flavicon
face
On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, Mike Braddock wrote:

> Mike Braddock wrote:
> >
> > Mike Braddock wrote:
> > >
> > > unsubscribe<mike braddock>
>
hello,
       this command should be sent to spam_OUTlistservSTOPspamspamTakeThisOuTmitvma.mit.edu.
vishram.

               +------------------------------------------+
               |            Vishram A. Sarurkar           |
               |           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^          |
               |     another hobbyist turned researcher   |
               |   slogging @ Indian Institute of Science |
               |               -----------                |
               |    e-mail:KILLspamvishEraseMEspamisu.iisc.ernet.in.        |
               |    Phone:+91 (080) 3092487.              |
               +------------------------------------------+

'The PICLIST Fund is Closing Soon'
1997\03\12@050453 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Dudes:

As most of you know, I started the PICLIST Fund five months ago as a
means for PICLIST subscribers to express through monetary donations
their gratitude to Jory Bell, who started the list three years ago
and has been running it ever since.

Contributions to the Fund are purely voluntary; everyone can donate,
but no one HAS to.

A complete explanation of the Fund is on my web page; the URL is in
my signature.  If you don't have web access, send me a private
e-mail and I'll send the info to you.

Some interesting (at least to me) Fund statistics:

   1.  Well over half (close to two-thirds, actually) of the
       contributions have come from outside the US... I've received
       checks from Poland, India, South Africa, Australia, France,
       Canada, and the UK.  This REALLY surprised me, since the
       overwhelming majority of PICLIST subscribers live in the USA.

   2.  About half the contributors wanted their donations to be
       anonymous.

   3.  The contributions were evenly split between members who are
       VERY active on the list and members that I'd never heard of.

Anyway, the PICLIST Fund will close at the end of this month, at
which point I'll send all the money I've collected to Jory.

So...

If you haven't contributed and want to, please send your check NOW.

Thanks.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - fastfwdspamspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:
=== www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html

'Getting piclist'
1997\03\16@042335 by cotan

flavicon
face
Hi!

I wonder if there is a web page where the piclist messages are
available.
I'm just flooded with messages. Is there an intelligent mail handler
which is able to sort messages coming from piclist?

Please reply in E-mail.

1997\03\19@085050 by Jim Eller

flavicon
face
I record piclist digest and Basic stamp list from Parallax
every day.  When i fill up a floppy i concatenate and
make one big 1.4 meg file for searching.  If your interested
let me know.

> Hi!

> I wonder if there is a web page where the piclist messages
> are available ............

1997\03\19@094932 by squareone

flavicon
face
Jim Eller <ellerspamBeGonespam@spam@INETWORLD.NET wrote:
>> I wonder if there is a web page where the piclist messages
>> are available ............

Jim, I just retrieved some PICLIST messages yesterday from the LISTSERV
PICLIST archives.

If you send a message to STOPspamLISTSERV.....spamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU and send the command
INFO REFCARD, you will receive instructions on how to retrieve messages.  I
used the search SEA (search command) to retrieve the messages I needed.  I
received the messages in minutes.  You can also send a mesage INDEX PICLIST
to LISTSERVspamBeGonespamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU.  You can order these files with a GET PICLIST
LOGxxx command.

It takes some study and some perseverance, but stick with it.  Good luck.

Wanda @ Square 1

'The PICLIST Fund -- Only 10 More Days'
1997\03\21@055521 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Dudes:

Just another reminder that the PICLIST Fund will be closing at the
end of this month, at which point all the money I've collected will
be donated to Jory Bell, the founder and operator of the PICLIST.

Many of you have made some good suggestions regarding possible uses
to which the money could be put... I'll be forwarding a compilaton of
those suggestions to Jory, as well.

If you haven't contributed yet and think you might want to, please
read the PICLIST Fund FAQ before doing so; you can find the FAQ at
the URL in my signature.

Remember:  Anyone CAN contribute, but no one HAS to.

Which reminds me...

In the recent thread that started with a $25/hour job offer (and
grew to involve employment practices in general, software-piracy
issues, questions about source-code rights, etc.), there were a
couple of posts that rhetorically asked, "Have you contributed to
the PICLIST Fund?".

While I'm sure that the authors of those messages didn't mean to
imply that there was any necessity to contribute to the Fund, some
list-members may have inferred that donations to the Fund were
somehow REQUIRED, if for no other reason than for their questions
and concerns to be taken seriously by the rest of us on the PICLIST.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

As I wrote in the PICLIST Fund FAQ,

   "Donations are ABSOLUTELY voluntary; you won't gain any personal
   privileges on the PICLIST if you donate, and you won't lose any
   if you don't.

   "No one will think any less of you if you choose not to
   contribute to the Fund, and if you don't contribute, the list
   (for as long as it's operational) will continue to be available
   to you for free, as it always has been.

   "Jory has no intention of transforming the PICLIST into a
   fee-based service; the Fund has been set up for one-time
   voluntary donations only."

If any of you haven't yet read the PICLIST Fund FAQ, I urge you to do
so... Even if you decide not to contribute to the Fund, reading the
FAQ will give you an appreciation of the trouble to which Jory's
gone to keep the list running.

If you decide not to contribute, you might want to send a thank-you
note to Jory (KILLspamjoryTakeThisOuTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu) anyway; he deserves it.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - EraseMEfastfwdspamspamBeGoneix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:
=== www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html

'The PICLIST Fund is Closing Soon'
1997\03\24@153919 by Paul Bjork

flavicon
face
Please remind us of the address.

1997\03\24@181624 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Paul Bjork <spam_OUTPICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> Please remind us of the address [to send donations to the PICLIST Fund].

Paul and others:

To donate to the PICLIST Fund, please send checks only (I don't want
to deal with cash or credit cards) to the following address:

       The PICLIST Fund
       c/o Fast Forward Engineering
       1984 Casablanca Court
       Vista, CA  92083-5043
       USA

   IMPORTANT:

      Make checks payable to "Andrew Warren and Jory Bell".

      Please endorse the back of the check as follows:

          For Deposit Only
          Andrew Warren and Jory Bell
          Union Bank
          Acct #0923012314

      Please include your e-mail address with your check.

      If you want your donation to be anonymous (as far as the rest
      of the list is concerned), please include a note to that
      effect.

This information (and much more) is in the PICLIST Fund FAQ on my
company's web page; the URL is in my signature.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - spamfastfwdspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:
=== www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html

'WWW Piclist site'
1997\03\27@181120 by Alan Nickerson

flavicon
face
I have setup a website that recieves the piclist E-Mail using a
customized version
of the Hypermail software.

Since my servers platform is not supported I had to re-compile the
source. This
also provides the access to completely hide the senders E-Mail address
from
the E-Mail headers. If there is an E-Mail address in the text of the
message that
too bad.

This is only expirimental, so dont expect perfection.... Comments and
suggestions
are welcome.

The URL is http://www.428main.com/piclist/

Alan Nickerson

1997\03\28@012937 by Chaipi Wijnbergen

flavicon
picon face
Hi,

The WWW Piclist site looks nice, as a concept, but, need some work. Some
of the messages on this list includs schematics and indented text. take a
look at http://www.428main.com/piclist/0020.html  When I read it on the
list it was alot easier to read.

Chaipi

                              \\\|///
                            \\  ~ ~  //
                             (  @ @  )
----------------------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo--------------------------------------
!                                                                             !
! Chaipi Wijnbergen                                                           !
! Electronics/Computer Eng. M.Sc.  Tel    : +972-8-9343079                    !
! Optical Imaging Laboratory       Fax    : +972-8-9344129                    !
! Brain Research Center            Email  : KILLspamchaipispamspamEraseMEtohu0.weizmann.ac.il       !
! Weizmann Institute of Science    URL    : http://www.weizmann.ac.il/~chaipi !
! Rehovot 76100 ISRAEL             IPhone : chaipi                            !
!                                                                             !
------------------------------------Oooo.--------------------------------------
                         .oooO     (   )
                         (   )      ) /
                          \ (      (_/
                           \_)


On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Alan Nickerson wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1997\03\28@072639 by Alan Nickerson

flavicon
face
Chaipi Wijnbergen wrote:

 Hi,

 The WWW Piclist site looks nice, as a concept, but, need some work.
 Some
 of the messages on this list includs schematics and indented text.
 take a
 look at http://www.428main.com/piclist/0020.html  When I read it on
 the
 list it was alot easier to read.

 Chaipi

Thanks for pointing this out. There is no question that the site still
needs some work. Your example is a very good one of some of the things
that need to be addressed.
In this particular message the 'table' uses TABS to align the columns.
Obviously the text to
HTML translator does not take this into account and the Web browser does
not display the
the TABS correctly. The tabs are actualy in the HTML.

Alan Nickerson

1997\03\28@075445 by n/a

flavicon
face
Alan Nickerson wrote:

> Thanks for pointing this out. There is no question that the site still
> needs some work. Your example is a very good one of some of the things
> that need to be addressed.
> In this particular message the 'table' uses TABS to align the columns.
> Obviously the text to
> HTML translator does not take this into account and the Web browser does
> not display the
> the TABS correctly. The tabs are actualy in the HTML.

What is the converter written in? I usually convert tabs to their
appropriate space (I don't always trust tabs). Or you might simple use
the <PRE> tag and I believe the the tags are displayed correctly.

Does anyone else have a problem with the background colors for the
PICLIST
archive? I find the pages very difficult to read. (I'm using Netscape)

--
Neil Cherry

1997\03\28@082437 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>Does anyone else have a problem with the background colors for the
>PICLIST
>archive? I find the pages very difficult to read. (I'm using Netscape)

I've found palette compatibility problems reading messages in Netscape when
I have Eudora active at the same time.  Also have had problems reading some
pages in Netscape when Auto Load Images is turned OFF.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
         Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
       "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
==================================================================

1997\03\28@085757 by Mike

flavicon
face
At 08:18 AM 28/03/97 -0500, you wrote:
>>Does anyone else have a problem with the background colors for the
>>PICLIST
>>archive? I find the pages very difficult to read. (I'm using Netscape)
>
>I've found palette compatibility problems reading messages in Netscape when
>I have Eudora active at the same time.  Also have had problems reading some
>pages in Netscape when Auto Load Images is turned OFF.

Netscape seems to have a bug when dealing with colour palettes if you
have a windows wallpaper which is a graphic image. What I do is open, then
close another window behind netscapes and the colour palette switches back,
once you are in Netscape and don't go out then it seems OK.

Rgds

Mike
Perth, Western Australia

Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes
academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that
theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic.
                                                                      Massen

1997\03\28@114826 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 09:55 PM 3/28/97 +0800, you wrote:
>Netscape seems to have a bug when dealing with colour palettes if you
>have a windows wallpaper which is a graphic image. What I do is open, then
>close another window behind netscapes and the colour palette switches back,
>once you are in Netscape and don't go out then it seems OK.

My wallpaper in "None" and my color scheme is stock microsoft.  I don't
like to waste time on pretty pictures.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
         Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
       "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
==================================================================

'Sending Binary Attachments to the PICLIST (was: "R'
1997\03\28@151800 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Peter Cousens <peterRemoveMEspamSTOPspamcousens.her.forthnet.gr> wrote:

> Take a look at this circuit....

and attached a 56K BMP picture to his message.

   Peter (and anyone else who's thinking of doing something
   similar):

   Please, please, PLEASE don't attach encoded binary files (like
   pictures, etc.) to messages that you send to the PICLIST.

   Sending those attachments is a BAD idea for a number of reasons:

       1.  Many people here aren't interested in the pictures.
       2.  Even if they WANT to see them, a lot of folks can't
           decode the attachments.
       3.  Anyone who receives the digest version of the list will
           have a VERY difficult time with the attachments,
           even if his mail reader DOES support auto-decoding
           of attachments.

Instead of sending attacments to the list, either publish them on a
web page somewhere and just post the URL here, or post a brief
description of the files and offer to send them in PRIVATE e-mail to
anyone who's interested.

Thanks.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - spam_OUTfastfwdspam_OUTspamKILLspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:
=== www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html

'WWW Piclist site'
1997\03\28@173210 by Alan Nickerson

flavicon
face
Undetermined origin c/o LISTSERV administrator wrote:

 Alan Nickerson wrote:

 > Thanks for pointing this out. There is no question that the site
 still
 > needs some work. Your example is a very good one of some of the
 things
 > that need to be addressed.
 > In this particular message the 'table' uses TABS to align the
 columns.
 > Obviously the text to
 > HTML translator does not take this into account and the Web
 browser does
 > not display the
 > the TABS correctly. The tabs are actualy in the HTML.

 What is the converter written in? I usually convert tabs to their
 appropriate space (I don't always trust tabs). Or you might simple
 use
 the <PRE> tag and I believe the the tags are displayed correctly.

 Does anyone else have a problem with the background colors for the
 PICLIST
 archive? I find the pages very difficult to read. (I'm using
 Netscape)

 --
 Neil Cherry

The converter is written in C. And I had the <PRE> option turned off,
I have
fixed this now.
Thanks for your input.

Alan Nickerson

1997\03\29@001534 by Mike Smith

flavicon
face
> >>Does anyone else have a problem with the background colors for the
> >>PICLIST
> >>archive? I find the pages very difficult to read. (I'm using Netscape)
> >
> >I've found palette compatibility problems reading messages in Netscape
when
> >I have Eudora active at the same time.  Also have had problems reading
some
> >pages in Netscape when Auto Load Images is turned OFF.
>
> Netscape seems to have a bug when dealing with colour palettes if you
> have a windows wallpaper which is a graphic image. What I do is open,
then
> close another window behind netscapes and the colour palette switches
back,
> once you are in Netscape and don't go out then it seems OK.
>
You can get a free program that fixes that - Internet Explorer 3.02 <g>

MikeS

'WWW Piclist site - messages list problem'
1997\03\29@022656 by Chaipi Wijnbergen

flavicon
picon face
Hi,

On the WWW Piclist site, Sorting of messages by threads is funny.

I responded to the original anouncment for this site with the message
regarding the TABs. it is listed as a new item, then other peaple
responded to my message and their messages went under the original
posting.

Chaipi

---- original message -----

Hi,

The WWW Piclist site looks nice, as a concept, but, need some work. Some
of the messages on this list includs schematics and indented text. take a
look at http://www.428main.com/piclist/0020.html  When I read it on the
list it was alot easier to read.

Chaipi

                              \\\|///
                            \\  ~ ~  //
                             (  @ @  )
----------------------------oOOo-(_)-oOOo--------------------------------------
!                                                                             !
! Chaipi Wijnbergen                                                           !
! Electronics/Computer Eng. M.Sc.  Tel    : +972-8-9343079                    !
! Optical Imaging Laboratory       Fax    : +972-8-9344129                    !
! Brain Research Center            Email  : .....chaipispamspamtohu0.weizmann.ac.il       !
! Weizmann Institute of Science    URL    : http://www.weizmann.ac.il/~chaipi !
! Rehovot 76100 ISRAEL             IPhone : chaipi                            !
!                                                                             !
------------------------------------Oooo.--------------------------------------
                         .oooO     (   )
                         (   )      ) /
                          \ (      (_/
                           \_)


On Thu, 27 Mar 1997, Alan Nickerson wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1997\03\29@023526 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Chaipi Wijnbergen <spamBeGonePICLISTspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> On the WWW Piclist site, Sorting of messages by threads is funny.
>
> I responded to the original anouncment for this site with the
> message regarding the TABs. it is listed as a new item, then other
> peaple responded to my message and their messages went under the
> original posting.

Chaipi:

I'd guess that your particular e-mail client doesn't generate an
"In-Reply-To:" header.  Without that header, the Hypermail
thread-sorter probably can't tell whether your message is really in
reply to another.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - TakeThisOuTfastfwdTakeThisOuTspamRemoveMEix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:
=== www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html

1997\03\29@063933 by Alan Nickerson

flavicon
face
Andrew Warren wrote:

 Chaipi Wijnbergen <RemoveMEPICLISTKILLspamspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

 > On the WWW Piclist site, Sorting of messages by threads is funny.
 >
 > I responded to the original anouncment for this site with the
 > message regarding the TABs. it is listed as a new item, then other

 > peaple responded to my message and their messages went under the
 > original posting.

 Chaipi:

 I'd guess that your particular e-mail client doesn't generate an
 "In-Reply-To:" header.  Without that header, the Hypermail
 thread-sorter probably can't tell whether your message is really in
 reply to another.

 -Andy

 === Andrew Warren - spamBeGonefastfwdspamspamix.netcom.com
 === Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
 ===
 === Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:
 === http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html

Thanks Andy,
I would not have known that, but after looking into it, your right. :)
I am investigating a way to archive the list by month or somthing and
make it searchable.

Thanks for all the feedback from everyone.

Alan Nickerson

1997\03\29@083238 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>You can get a free program that fixes that - Internet Explorer 3.02 <g>

GAAGG - CHOKE - GASP!!

It isn't free.  It costs resources.  I think the ding-dongs over in Redmond
think Microsoft's still are the only application running on the machine at
a time.  You know, DOS-mode mentality.

Get real!

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
         Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
       "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
==================================================================

'Sending Binary Attachments to the PICLIST (was: "R'
1997\03\29@130442 by Mark A. Corio

picon face
In a message dated 97-03-28 16:00:12 EST, you write:

>Instead of sending attacments to the list, either publish them on a
>web page somewhere and just post the URL here, or post a brief
>description of the files and offer to send them in PRIVATE e-mail to
>anyone who's interested.

I agree.  I personally do not open any mail with attachments unless I am VERY
interested in the topic (e.g. responses to one of my questions).

Mark A. Corio
Rochester MicroSystems, Inc.
200 Buell Road, Suite 9
Rochester, NY  14624
Tel:  (716) 328-5850 --- Fax:  (716) 328-1144
http://www.frontiernet.net/~rmi/

***** Designing Electronics For Research & Industry *****

'WWW Piclist site'
1997\03\29@173516 by Mike

flavicon
face
At 11:29 AM 28/03/97 -0500, you wrote:
>At 09:55 PM 3/28/97 +0800, you wrote:
>>Netscape seems to have a bug when dealing with colour palettes if you
>>have a windows wallpaper which is a graphic image. What I do is open, then
>>close another window behind netscapes and the colour palette switches back,
>>once you are in Netscape and don't go out then it seems OK.
>
>My wallpaper in "None" and my color scheme is stock microsoft.  I don't
>like to waste time on pretty pictures.
>
>Andy

Unlike you, I will not so easily accept 'stock microsoft' and will customise
it as far as possible. The vast array of 'pretty pictures' I now have provides
for stimulating discussion as my system is often used by my family and
especially
my children - it makes life that much more wholesome and I take every
opportunity
to resist the mechanicalism thrust upon our psyche by the career of programming
microprocessor based products.

Rgds

Mike

Have a nice Easter.

Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes
academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that
theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic.
                                                                      Massen

1997\03\30@003919 by Mike Smith

flavicon
face
> >You can get a free program that fixes that - Internet Explorer 3.02 <g>

Andy, look at this
--------------------------------------------------------------------------^^
^^

>
> GAAGG - CHOKE - GASP!!
>
> It isn't free.  It costs resources.  I think the ding-dongs over in
Redmond
> think Microsoft's still are the only application running on the machine
at
> a time.  You know, DOS-mode mentality.
>
> Get real!

Although I'm at least partially serious.  When I was using NetScape (Gold
2.something) I was less than impressed at its performance, particularly the
number of system errors it threw.  IE3 and NT is my current mix.  If you're
using 3.11 or 95, that's more likely your problem.

MikeS

1997\03\31@073141 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>Although I'm at least partially serious.  When I was using NetScape (Gold
>2.something) I was less than impressed at its performance, particularly the
>number of system errors it threw.

Gold 2.x was known for that.  I only ever used the free version of 2, and
now use 3.0 for 32-bit.

>IE3 and NT is my current mix.  If you're
>using 3.11 or 95, that's more likely your problem.

I use too many DOS apps to move to NT yet.  When I can find a cheap,
com-port version of a programmer that I like, I'll be able to move over.

Other reason is my second machine (a Compaq laptop) only takes up to 12M
(and it's there), too little for NT.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Montana Design - 409 S 6th St - Phillipsburg, NJ 08865
         Hardware & Software for Industry & R/C Hobbies
       "Go fast, turn right, and keep the wet side down!"
==================================================================

'Sending Binary Attachments to the PICLIST (was: "R'
1997\03\31@082814 by Peter J (GEA, 068974)

flavicon
face
I appreciate the binary attachment.  I wish I had a place to post my own
URL...but I don't.  And I wish I had time to respond to hundreds of
interested people.... but I don't.  Therefore, in the future I will also
post a binary attachment to communicate concepts when its
appropriate...which yours was.  Thank you, Peter.
{Quote hidden}

1997\03\31@105551 by peter

flavicon
face
Andrew Warren wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Andy did you look at the ( pictures )circuit ?

How about sugesting a better way to put this guy on the
right track

I posted a practical circuit that can be used to control resistive
inductive or capacitive loads, use one PIC pin, very simple to
control, the circuit requires no calibration, is easily repeatable,
is not timing sensitive and requires no syncronization

would it not be more productive to correct the less viable/
workable sugestions

As for not being able to read attachments
windows bitmap is probably the easiest for most people
As for not wanting to, well if they don't want to learn
then why are the on the list ??

EraseMEpeter.....spamcousens.her.forthnet.gr


'Sending Binary Attachments to the PICLIST (was: "R'
1997\04\02@032813 by Kieran Sullivan
flavicon
face
part 0 305 bytes
       3.  Anyone who receives the digest version of the list will
           have a VERY difficult time with the attachments,
           even if his mail reader DOES support auto-decoding
           of attachments.

There is a digest version of this list? How do I subscribe to it?

Kieran Sullivan

1997\04\02@040537 by Mike

flavicon
face
>There is a digest version of this list? How do I subscribe to it?
>
>Kieran Sullivan
>
>Attachment Converted: D:\WAN\MAIL\INCOMING\ReSendin
>

Hey Kieran can you turn off the attachments please, the body of the message is
enough...

Rgds

Mike


Some say there is no magic but, all things begin with thought then it becomes
academic, then some poor slob works out a practical way to implement all that
theory, this is called Engineering - for most people another form of magic.
                                                                      Massen

'Receiving the PICLIST in Digest Form (was: "Re: Se'
1997\04\02@130920 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Kieran Sullivan <spamBeGonePICLIST.....spamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:

> There is a digest version of this list? How do I subscribe to it?

Kieran:

Send a message to

   TakeThisOuTlistservspam_OUTspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu

with the following in the BODY of the message (the message subject is
unimportant):

   set piclist digest
   end

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - EraseMEfastfwdEraseMEspam@spam@ix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:
=== www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html

'The PICLIST Fund -- Last Call'
1997\04\09@035349 by Andrew Warren

face
flavicon
face
Dudes:

As I mentioned a week or two ago, I'm just about ready to close the
PICLIST Fund account and send the money I've collected to Jory Bell.

I'd planned to close the account last Friday, but a couple of checks
arrived that day, and another arrived yesterday.

So...

If any of you have recently sent donation checks to the PICLIST Fund
and have NOT received an e-mail confirmation from me, please send
me a private e-mail as soon as possible and let me know.

If I receive no responses to this message by tomorrow (Wednesday)
afternoon, I'll close the account then.

Thanks.

-Andy

=== Andrew Warren - fastfwdEraseMEspamix.netcom.com
=== Fast Forward Engineering - Vista, California
===
=== Custodian of the PICLIST Fund -- For more info, see:
=== www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499/fund.html

'Piclist'
1997\04\11@051639 by esteven Post16 91mlk

flavicon
face
Can anyone please help me.

I am wanting to UNSUBSRIBE from the piclist, but I have deleted the
email that I got when I subscribed.

Thanks

Phil Kesteven

'Piclist Email problems.'
1997\04\15@080753 by Francesco Cembrola

picon face
Can I please have the Email address of the Piclist administrator please?
I am having problem with Email.

'thanks via the PICList'
1997\04\18@100444 by Stephen H Alsop

picon face
A short while ago I asked for help via the PIClist on a
handicapped project I was struggling to finish. I was
designing a 'rotary' knob PIC keyboard to connect to a
PC for people who could not use a standard keyboard,
yet could still use their fingers to turn a rotary knob.

I could do the PIC part but was hopeless on the PC side!

I immediately received much varied advice and thro' this list I would
like to thank Mike at Mayes UK for his invaluable help.  The
project will now be of immense help to some who need it.

Many Thanks for providing a suitable medium for exchanging
practical help between engineers.

Stephen H Alsop    email: .....s.ssystems@spam@spamspam_OUTeasynet.co.uk
S&S Systems Ltd   www: http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~s.ssystems

'PICLIST Digest - 25 Apr 1997 to 26 Apr 1997'
1997\04\27@221025 by Duane Waller

picon face
Hi Jean,
Use the command "pbc-p74" with the epicbasic compiler for the hex file.
then as far as I know, you should be able to download the program with the
epic system.  Give Micro Engineering an email about the socket adapter if
needed. I'll bet they have something.
Have fun,
best,
Duane.

>Hello everyone!
>
>First of all, I would like to know if I could program the 16C74
>with the EPIC Programmer. I do not have any adapter but could I just
>pull all the wires from the programmer's socket onto the correct pins
>of the 16C74 PLCC?
>
>Thank you!
>Jean-Francois


'SIGNOFF PICLIST'
1997\05\16@100435 by Luca.Brentel
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part 0 432 bytes content-type:text/plainHTML> SIGNOFF PICLIST  Message-ID: <336F4547.9724D3BD@infotn.it> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 16:50:48 +0200 From: "Luca.Brentel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b3 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: SIGNOFF PICLIST X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3.0.1.32.19970506091706.00c6c134@box1.tin.it> Content-Type: text/plain SIGNOFF PICLIST

1997\05\16@100906 by Luca.Brentel

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part 0 432 bytes content-type:text/plainHTML> SIGNOFF PICLIST  Message-ID: <336F4547.9724D3BD@infotn.it> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 16:50:48 +0200 From: "Luca.Brentel" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.0b3 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: SIGNOFF PICLIST X-Priority: 3 (Normal) References: <3.0.1.32.19970506091706.00c6c134@box1.tin.it> Content-Type: text/plain SIGNOFF PICLIST

'Piclist archive ?'
1997\05\21@053553 by Giovanni Mazzola

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face
part 0 54 bytes
Thanks in advance.

Giovanni Mazzola

it9xxsspam_OUTspamspam_OUTexit.it


'SIGNOFF PICLIST'
1997\06\04@205618 by Jack Rutherford
flavicon
face

--
Jack Rutherford
TakeThisOuTjrutherSTOPspamspamTakeThisOuTpreferred.com

'Catching up on PICLIST backlog'
1997\06\05@053212 by Tim Forcer

flavicon
face
Wow, I go away for a week and it takes me most of the following week to get
through PICLIST post.  But it's all good stuff.  Thanks to all out there.
Couple of comments.

1.  Old teletypes.  No-one's mentioned the real oldies I remember from the
UK GPO in the sixties - painted dark green and weighed a ton.  They had the
interesting feature that the printing was always a character behind.  As
each 5 bit code came in, it printed the previous character then set up the
printhead for the next.  Was this the first example of PIPELINING?

2.  PLDs.  My favourite is the 18CV8.  This is a 20 pin device with 8
outputs.  Key feature is that each output macrocell is truly universal.
That is, polarity, feedback type (registered, combinational or pin) and
output type (reg or com) are independantly set.  Main drawbacks are
single-sourced, not supported by most current design tools or cheap
programmers.  I therefore recommend the 22V10 against the 16V8, if only
because its output macrocell is 'clean' - the 16V8 is a mess because it was
designed to be a universal replacement for 16R4, 16R6, 16R8 and 16L8, where
the com and reg outputs had different feedback and output enable
arrangements.  The 22V10 also has the advantage that it has lots of product
terms - 16  on two of its outputs.  Final benefits are that everyone makes
one, and many CPLD and FPGA manufacturers quote their products in terms of
multiple 22V10 equivalents, so you get a good feel for what you'd be getting
into.

3.  Overvolts protection.  This comment refers to recent posts on both MOV
(etc) devices and in-system programmable logic.  I had a bad experience a
year ago with Lattice ispLSI parts, when I managed to blow up several.  It
took a while to work out what was going on, and I urge anyone thinking of
using in-system programmed ICs of any type to read carefully.  The system
under development was a prototyping aid.  In use, it is possible to short
out Vcc (5V) and Gnd.  OK, so there's no need to design the system so that
such a user error won't cause problems, but the system MUST be undamaged by
it.  Lattice ispLSI WAS damaged.  The mechanism is that a modern PSU can
respond pretty rapidly to changes in current demand, and can push out a
hefty lump of amps for very short periods.  If the short is not a nice,
hard, permanent thing, but the sort where two bare wires brush together, the
Vcc line will bounce as the short re-opens temporarily - and any inductance
around will boost the bounce.  Testing (without the Lattice CPLDs in
circuit) showed excursions on the 5.0V Vcc line of up to 10.4V relative to
0V, with typical peaks of 8.3V.  These lasted for several microseconds.
There was absolutely NO adverse effect on other components including 74LS,
75ALS, 74HCT, 74ABT and an 18CV8.  The Lattice chips have an on-chip charge
pumps and related features to provide the programming with only 5V
available, and it appears these features are the reasons they failed with
very low resistance between Vcc and Gnd pins when Vcc pulsed too high.  If
you look at the data sheet for almost any 5V logic IC, you'll find the
absolute maximum Vcc quoted as "7V".  In the case of Lattice ispLSI, that
absolute maximum is a true, hard, cross-this-line-and-you-die limit.  OK.
So now I had to stop my 5V line exceeding 7.0V.  Not 7V, 7.0V - quite a
difference in practise.  ALL the standard voltage clamp products, even those
rated as 5.6V, actually have a rounded "knee" on their characteristics, and
don't actually clamp hard by conducting amps until around 10V.  The ONLY
device I could find which worked was the SGS-Thomson 1N5908.  By fitting
this, and a 100uF axial tantalum to slow down the speed of the voltage edge,
there have been zero failures in use.  SGS-Thomson used to make devices
which (on paper) would have been even better, the GMP5 and GMP5B, but these
ceased production seveal years ago.  To summarise, in-system programming is
great, but you never get something for nothing.  The cost of 1N5908s in all
your products might soon exceed the cost of buying a programmer for a
non-isp 22V10!

Tim Forcer            Tel: (+44) (0)1703 593362
                     Fax: (+44) (0)1703 592053
                   email:  STOPspamtmf@spam@spamecs.soton.ac.uk
Department of Electronics & Computer Science
Room 3005, Building 35
The University, Southampton, SO17 1BJ     UK

1997\06\05@070134 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Tim, I have experience with the Lattice's ISP 22V10, 1016, and 2032 and
I have'nt had the problems you mentioned though you have obviously tested
this. I did have a problem with a 2032 that kept insisting it was protected
under pDS and Synario. Exporting the file and using ispDownload worked
fine. It looks like my software needs to be updated and I'm fortunate that
Lattice is local and the rep is giving me the "Jungle Pack" with updated
software.

  How does this relate to the PIC? ;-) Well, I use their 1016 to emulate
generic Motorola and Intel uP signals off of a PC parallel port. It allows
me to test a variety of peripheral chips and PIC interfaces. With a 1016,
I get an 18 Bit address bus, 8 Bit data bus, and related control signals.
It's also good for programming memory chips...

  - Tom

At 10:15 AM 6/5/97 +0100, you wrote:
>Wow, I go away for a week and it takes me most of the following week to get
[snip]

>3.  Overvolts protection.  This comment refers to recent posts on both MOV
>(etc) devices and in-system programmable logic.  I had a bad experience a
>year ago with Lattice ispLSI parts, when I managed to blow up several.  It
>took a while to work out what was going on, and I urge anyone thinking of
>using in-system programmed ICs of any type to read carefully.  The system
>under development was a prototyping aid.  In use, it is possible to short
>out Vcc (5V) and Gnd.  OK, so there's no need to design the system so that
[snip]

>Tim Forcer            Tel: (+44) (0)1703 593362


'PICLIST Digest - 29 Jun 1997 to 30 Jun 1997'
1997\07\01@163215 by Mal Goris
flavicon
face
Andy Warren writes:
>     And... Although I haven't tested this, I THINK you can cut it
>     down to 5 cycles per loop another way:
>
>        ; 5 cycles per count (2.5 uS per count)
>
>         CHECK_PULSE:
>
>             INCFSZ   pulse_width_lo
>             DECF     pulse_width_hi
>
>             BTFSC    PULSE_PORT,PULSE_BIT
>             GOTO     CHECK_PULSE
>
>         DONE:
>
>             MOVF     pulse_width_lo
>             ADDWF    pulse_width_hi

If you are willing to use an interrupt, the RTCC, the FSR register and
a lot more code space than Andy #1's routine above, then you will be
able to get resolutions down to 1 clock cycle with the
following. Sorry about the lack of comments. The idea is to let an
interrupt service routine record the start and stop times as given by
the RTCC. You can tell when an edge has been detected because FSR is
incremented by the ISR. After the first edge is detected start
checking for overflows of RTCC and increment the high byte, stop_hi,
if it does.

       cblock  0xC             ; first general-purpose register.
       start_lo
       stop_lo
       stop_hi
       wtmp
       stmp
       oldt
       last
       endc

       org     4
isr
       push    wtmp,stmp       ; save context.
       movf    tmr0,W
       movwf   indf            ; copy tmr0 to *fsr
       incf    fsr,F           ; point to stop_lo.
       movf    portb,F         ; remove the  portb interrupt mismatch.
       bcf     intcon,rbif     ; clear the RB change interrupt flag.
       pop     wtmp,stmp       ; restore context.
       retfie

;; Assume you have set the RTCC prescaler to 1 (assigned it to WDT),
enabled interrupt on change for portb<4:7>, and pulse input is on
portb<4:7> and intcon,gie is enabled.

       clrf    stop_hi
       movlw   start_lo
       movwf   fsr

_000    movlw   stop_lo         ;keep looping here till fsr = &stop_lo
       xorwf   fsr,W           ; which is done by the ISR.
       btfss   status,Z
       goto    _000

       movf    tmr0,W
       movwf   oldt

_001    movf    tmr0,W
       movwf   last
       subwf   oldt,W
       btfsc   status,C
       incf    stop_hi         ; if oldt > tmr0.
       movf    last,W
       movwf   oldt
       movlw   stop_lo+1
       xorwf   fsr
       btfss   status,Z
       goto    _001            ; loop until fsr = &stop_lo + 1

       movf    stop_lo,W       ; check for RTCC overflow one last time
       subwf   oldt,W
       btfsc   status,C
       incf    stop_hi

;; at this point the pulse edges have been timed, the start time is
;; (0,start_lo) and the stop time is (stop_hi,stop_lo). Subtract one from
;; the other to get the pulse width time.

As you can probably tell by now, this method is a lot messier than
Andy Warren's but does give 0.5 usec resolution. At least, I think it
does because I haven't tested it.

Mal Goris
--
http://www.nfra.nl/~mgoris/

'PICLIST Digest - 30 Jun 1997 to 1 Jul 1997'
1997\07\02@211319 by Andy Shaw

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Hi,

>I am using PICSTART 16C programmer. Every time I start the programmer
software, it tries to communicate with the programmer board via >COM1 and I
have to wait for the time-out to set the correct port settings for my
computer.

I used to have the same problem with the 16B programmer. However you can
specify the port number on the
command line. I simply created a BAT file that had the normal mpstart
command plus /2 to specify port 2.
If you are using Windows 95 you can do all of this via a short cut to and
MS-DOS program.

>More importantly, the default programming settings come up with the Code
Protect option selected. I have already blown two C73As >because I
accidentally kept the default settings.

Again I had the same problem. I fixed it by adding code into my projects to
set the fuses from the
asm file. Doing it this way means that you don't have to mess around
setting them manually
each time. I use mplab as my development system now and the assembler
allows a command
of the form:
       __config        _XT_OSC & _WDT_ON & _CP_OFF
to configure the fuse settings. Not sure if the old assemblers support this
(but I'm sure other
people here will know :-)). Oh and might be as well to try this using a
safe fuse like WDT rather
than the CP one!

Hope this helps

Andy (#7 I think!)

'High resolution pulse width measure (was PICLIST D'
1997\07\03@102358 by Mike Keitz

picon face
On Tue, 1 Jul 1997 22:30:13 +0200 Mal Goris <@spam@mgorisRemoveMEspamNFRA.NL> writes:

>If you are willing to use an interrupt, the RTCC, the FSR register and
>a lot more code space than Andy #1's routine above, then you will be
>able to get resolutions down to 1 clock cycle with the
>following. Sorry about the lack of comments. The idea is to let an
>interrupt service routine record the start and stop times as given by
>the RTCC. You can tell when an edge has been detected because FSR is
>incremented by the ISR. After the first edge is detected start
>checking for overflows of RTCC and increment the high byte, stop_hi,
>if it does.

Here's my untested approach to the same.  It uses several tricks.  The
INT interrupt on B0 is used for input.  This is a simple approach with
several major linitations, which can be overcome by using a more
complicated approach.  These major limitations are: The RTCC is used for
timing, and it is reset.  The pulse-measure routine uses all the PIC's
attention while it is running.  Other interrupts are not possible.


; ISR.  This ISR differs from standard practice.  It will trash the W and

; STATUS registers.  It will not clear the flag that caused the
interrupt.
; And it will not reenable interrupts when returning, this allows the GIE

; bit to be used to tell if an interrupt has occurred.

       org     04h             ;Interrupt routine
       movfw   TIMER0          ;Get RTCC (TIMER0) value
       clrf    TIMER0          ;Reset TIMER0.
       return          ;Return, *don't reenable interrupts*

; Pulse measure.  Requires 2 RAM locations, pulse_low and pulse_high.
; This will be the width of the pulse in instruction cycles, minus about
; 3 cycles to account for clearing the RTCC.
; Active high-pulse applied to B0/INT.  Pulse must be low upon entering
; the routine.

pulsemeas
       movlw   OPTION_REG      ;Point INDF as the option
register.
       movwf   FSR             ;Eliminates the need to set RP
bits.
       movlw   b'11001111'     ;Timer, no prescale.  WDT max
prescale
                               ; Port B0 interrupt rising edge.
       movwf   INDF            ;To OPTION.
       movlw   b'00010000'     ;Enable INT interrupt.  Disable
all others
                               ;and clear any flags.
       movwf   INTCON
       clrf    pulse_high      ;Clear high pulse width time.
       bsf     INTCON,GIE      ;Enable interrupts.
waitrise
       btfsc   INTCON,GIE      ;Has interrupt occurred?
       goto    waitrise
; At this point, the interrupt has occurred, due to the rising edge of
; the pulse, and the TIMER0 has just been reset.
       bcf     INTCON,T0IF     ;Clear overflow flag.
       bcf     INDF,6          ;Set INTEDG to look for falling
edge.
       bcf     INTCON,INTF     ;Clear INT flag.
       bsf     INTCON,GIE      ;Enable interrupt on fall of pulse.
waitfall
       btfsc   INTCON,T0IF     ;Check for low count roll over.
       goto    waitfall2       ;Timer hasn't rolled over yet.
       incf    pulse_high,f    ;TIMER0 rolled over.  Keep track.
       bcf     INTCON,T0IF
waitfall2
       btfsc   INTCON,GIE      ;Did interrupt occur?
       goto    waitfall        ;No, keep waiting.
; Here after pulse ends.
       movwf   pulse_low       ;TIMER0 was copied to W at the
exact end
                               ;of the pulse by the ISR.
       btfsc   INTCON,T0IF     ;In case last overflow was
missed.
       incf    pulse_high,f
;Pulse width now in pulse_low and pulse_high, subject to (constant)
; correction for latencies.
       return

The problem with the original pulse trigger delay application is that the
PIC needs to output a pulse at the same time it is measuring the input
pulse.  With The C84 has only one execution unit, so it can't do both at
once to one-cycle precision (maybe with an external gate to stop an
externally applied TIMER0 clock at the end of the pulse, it could).  The
CCP module does pulse timing with dedicated hardware, allowing the PIC to
do several things at once.

'PICLIST Digest - 7 Jul 1997 to 8 Jul 1997'
1997\07\09@102548 by lilel

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face
> >Somethings I have been asking about for a while and others I just thought up:

1.   A saner approach to pin stimulus than the stimulus file.  There
should be a simple, intuitive graphical interface which will provide
stimulus, and tell the user when and where that stimulus will be
applied, either in TIME (microseconds), STEPS, etc.etc.

2.  I also agree a faster simulation is needed.

3.  I have been griping to Microschip about their error messages a
lot.  Many times there are errors that go unnoticed by MPLAB, often
once there is one error the rest of the list will be completely
irrelevant, and the results of the error checking routines are
cryptic at best (as are most error checking routines...)



--Lawrence Lile

1997\07\10@151322 by Ian Bennett

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face
I wonder is anyone can help me with a slight niggle I have with MPLAB. Is
there any way I can
confgure the assembler to accept hex data as $?? instead of H'??' or 0x??,
both of which seem
to me to be somewhat awkward.

It would appear that decimal numbers can have the simpler format of .??? so
why not hex?


Ian Bennett

'No PICLIST topic : RS232'
1997\07\11@062542 by Alboni Giorgio

flavicon
face
I made a pic circuit whit a RS232 and it work fine. I have only a problem: I
able to make a Visual C++
program under windows 95, using the win32 api for RS232, but i NOT able to
do the same under DOS whit
the Borlanc C++ 3.1 A&F. There is some one that's can help me whit C or C++
ruotine for use RS232 under DOS?
Thanks in Advance,

Alboni Giorgio.

'No PICLIST topic : RS232 -Reply'
1997\07\11@105105 by ang (Chee Foon Tiang)

flavicon
face
Check out the int bioscom() function under bios.h
This function makes use of the BIOS serial comm routines.

So do take care of your DTR, DSR, CTS, RTS handshaking lines as some
BIOS automatically uses them and some don't, best is to wire DTR to DSR
and CTS to RTS, otherwise you have to handle the handshaking.

Alternatively, you can use the int86() function to directly call the
BIOS routine... can't remember which interrupt but if you want I can
check it up in my "PC Programmer's Sourcebook" by Microsoft Press.
Highly recommended a few years ago when people still programs for DOS
and Win16.

Peter Tiang
Design Engineer
TakeThisOuTtiangcfoonEraseMEspamhitachi.com.my

Example attached:
================

#include <bios.h>
#include <conio.h>
#include <dos.h>

#define DTR        0x01
#define RTS        0x02
#define COM1PORT   0x0000
#define COM2PORT   0x0002
#define COM1       0
#define COM2       1
#define DATA_READY 0x100
#define FALSE      0
#define TRUE       !FALSE

#define SETTINGS   ( 0xE0 | 0x00 | 0x02 | 0x00)  // 9600,N,7,1

int main(void)
{
   int  in, out, status, DONE = FALSE;

   far *RS232_ADDR;

   RS232_ADDR = MK_FP( 0x0040, COM1PORT );

   if( !*RS232_ADDR )
       return -1;

   bioscom( 0, SETTINGS, COM1 );
   cprintf("... BIOSCOM [ESC] to exit ...\n");

   while( !DONE )
   {
       outportb( *RS232_ADDR + 4, DTR | RTS );
       status = bioscom( 3, 0, COM1 );
       if( status & DATA_READY )
            if( (out = bioscom( 2, 0, COM1) & 0x7F) != 0 )
                 putch(out);
       if( kbhit() )
            if( (in = getch()) == '\x1B' )
                 DONE = TRUE;
            else
                 bioscom( 1, in, COM1 );
   }
   return 0;
}

>>> Alboni Giorgio <RemoveMErac1337.....spamPROVINCIA.RA.IT> 10/July/1997 07:59pm >>>
>I made a pic circuit whit a RS232 and it work fine. I have only a problem: I
>able to make a Visual C++
>program under windows 95, using the win32 api for RS232, but i NOT able to
>do the same under DOS whit
>the Borlanc C++ 3.1 A&F. There is some one that's can help me whit C or C++
>ruotine for use RS232 under DOS?
>Thanks in Advance,
>
>Alboni Giorgio.

1997\07\11@212820 by The Jacky's

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face
part 0 596 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream; name="Serial.c" (decoded 7bit)

Hi Alboni  the two Borland files attached work quite nicely.
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Serial.c"
Content-Description: Serial.c (C File)
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Serial.c"

Attachment converted: wonderland:Serial.c (????/----) (00003EC5)
Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Serial.h"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Description: Serial.h (H File)
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Serial.h"

Attachment converted: wonderland:Serial.h (????/----) (00003EC6)

'HEX representation in MPLAB (Re: PICLIST Digest - '
1997\07\13@175417 by paulb

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face
Ian Bennett wrote:

> Is there any way I can confgure the assembler to accept hex data as $??
> instead of H'??' or 0x??, both of which seem to me to be somewhat awkward.

 Hear Hear!  Unless one feels a desparate need for compatibility with
an
Intel product (and one should be asking really serious quentions if so;
it
seems that Microchip didn't REALLY feel the need), commonsense indicates
that
one of the first things in writing an assembler would be to opt for the
Motorola (Pascal, most FORTH) format.

 Regards,
       Paul B.

'PICLIST Digest - 21 Jul 1997 to 22 Jul 1997'
1997\07\23@092213 by motodog

picon face
Sean,

RF Monolithics make all kinds of crystals and SAW components.
(214) 233-2903 in Dallas Texas

Good Luck,

Mike

'PICLIST Digest - 23 Jul 1997 to 24 Jul 1997'
1997\07\25@021514 by Mike Ghormley

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face
Tom Handley wrote:

>   John, a good single chip solution is to use the old ICM7218/7228
>chip from Intersil/Harris. It drives 8 digits, has an 8 digit SRAM,
>drives common anode/cathode/lcd displays, and eliminates a lot of
> `glue'...

Good chip, but pricey!  $8.84 US from Digi-Key in onesies.

Michael

When the way of the Tao is forgotten, kindness and ethics must be taught.
Men must learn to pretend to be wise and good.  --  Lao Tzu

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