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PICList Thread
'The new flash part, 16F877?'
1998\11\28@115957 by PHXSYS

picon face
I wasn't aware of a new lash part, 16F877.  Have I been under a rock?

Could someone provide more info.

Jon

1998\11\28@125439 by Dave Celsnak

picon face
The new flash parts [as I'm told by Microchip] won't be available till
January, but they will take orders in December.  The parts are listed in
a "New Products" book that I got during a PICmicro seminar in Novi,
Michigan last spring.

I'm mostly excited about the 'large' 28-pin flash PIC's, as they will
now have 10-bit A/D, and some on-board data memory!

Take Care,
Dave Celsnak

>Date:         Sat, 28 Nov 1998 11:58:55 EST
>Reply-To:     pic microcontroller discussion list
<spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
{Quote hidden}

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

1998\11\29@000407 by PHXSYS

picon face
In a message dated 11/28/98 10:58:01 AM US Mountain Standard Time,
.....pic_daveKILLspamspam.....HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<< I'm mostly excited about the 'large' 28-pin flash PIC's, as they will
now have 10-bit A/D, and some on-board data memory!
 >>
Me too

Thanks for the info

Jon

1998\11\29@055826 by Andy Stephenson

flavicon
face
Have any of you guys seen the pdf data sheet ?

               5V only programming
               new fangled debug pins
               storing 14 bit data within the prog space - i.e. not using retlw

I have not been asked to sign NDA's etc so I assume the data is available.
If you want a look  I can email you.

Rgds...


...Andy

At 09:53 28/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1998\11\29@093521 by bob

flavicon
face
On Sun, 29 Nov 1998, Andy Stephenson wrote:
>Have any of you guys seen the pdf data sheet ?
>
>                5V only programming
>                new fangled debug pins
>                storing 14 bit data within the prog space - i.e. not using retl
w
>
>I have not been asked to sign NDA's etc so I assume the data is available.
>If you want a look  I can email you.

I also found the following EE Times article. I don't know if this link has
been distributed on the list before, it appears to be from September:

       http://www.eet.com/news/97/968news/flash.html

Interestingly enough, an altavista search on "16F877" turns up only this EE
Times article and Microchip's web page on the 4.0 version of MPLAB, also dated
in September. However, the current version of the MPLAB 4.0 page makes no
mention of the 16F877.

I would be interested in a copy of the PDF, thanks.

--Bob

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
KILLspambobKILLspamspamdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1998\11\29@101024 by David Blain

picon face
Sounds like a Scenix SX... Is Microchip playing catch-up?

-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[RemoveMEPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Andy Stephenson
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 1998 5:54 AM
To: spamBeGonePICLISTspamBeGonespamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: The new flash part, 16F877?


Have any of you guys seen the pdf data sheet ?

               5V only programming
               new fangled debug pins
               storing 14 bit data within the prog space - i.e. not using
retlw

I have not been asked to sign NDA's etc so I assume the data is available.
If you want a look  I can email you.

Rgds...


...Andy

At 09:53 28/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1998\11\29@160151 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   >Have any of you guys seen the pdf data sheet ?
   >
   >                5V only programming
   >                new fangled debug pins

Microchip was talking about this (or some similar) chip at ESC.
Specifically, the debug pins were "advertised."  I don't think the booth
personel wre amused when I commented that it sounded like a result of the
scenix war...

By the way, how many (if any) of the scenix "published" virtual peripherals
run on PICs as well?

BillW

1998\11\29@234525 by Tjaart van der Walt

flavicon
face
William Chops Westfield wrote:
>
>     >Have any of you guys seen the pdf data sheet ?
>     >
>     >                5V only programming
>     >                new fangled debug pins
>
> Microchip was talking about this (or some similar) chip at ESC.
> Specifically, the debug pins were "advertised."  I don't think the booth
> personel wre amused when I commented that it sounded like a result of the
> scenix war...
>
> By the way, how many (if any) of the scenix "published" virtual peripherals
> run on PICs as well?

<GRIN> You mean, like a 10 baud modem? (Scenix released a full 1200
baud modem virtual peripheral recently)

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1998\11\30@034801 by Dr. Imre Bartfai

flavicon
face
Hi,
our Hungarian distributor already has announced it. They say they cost
about 20-25% more than the OTP parts. They say introduction date is begin
of 1999.
Imre


On Sat, 28 Nov 1998 RemoveMEPHXSYSspam_OUTspamKILLspamAOL.COM wrote:

> I wasn't aware of a new lash part, 16F877.  Have I been under a rock?
>
> Could someone provide more info.
>
> Jon
>
>

'Datasheet for PIC16F877'
1998\11\30@213836 by Ray Doerr

picon face
   Does anyone know where I can get the Datasheet for the PIC16F877.  All I
could find on Microchip's site was a couple of App Notes.  Also any idea as
to when this chip will be available.


Thanks Ray


'16F877 datasheet available'
1998\12\02@113414 by Sean RS Costall
flavicon
face
Since people appear to be having problems getting the data sheet (since
they don't have nice local reps like me) I have put a copy up at:

http://members.xoom.com/costall/16F87X.pdf.

--------------------------------------------------------------
-               Sean R.S. Costall, P.Eng                     -
-                   BW Research Ltd.                         -
-              #242  3030-3rd Avenue N.E.                    -
-                 Calgary, AB  T2A 6T7                       -
-  RemoveMEcostallsTakeThisOuTspamspamcuug.ab.ca      EraseMEcostallspamspamspamBeGonenyquist.ee.ualberta.ca   -
--------------------------------------------------------------
- Calgary Area DSM:  http://www.cadvision.com/whitecd/CADSM/ -
--------------------------------------------------------------

1998\12\02@132204 by Chris Eddy

flavicon
face
Thanks a ton, Sean.  I have been begging for the 87X and 77X sheets, to no
avail.  I have what you would refer to as a 'stay at home' rep.  I call him
that because nobody in town can figure out if he ever comes out of his
house.  I would be so inclined to email your data sheet to him, but why
bother?  He wouldn't understand what it is.

Indebted,
Chris Eddy

Sean RS Costall wrote:

> Since people appear to be having problems getting the data sheet (since
> they don't have nice local reps like me) I have put a copy up at:
>

'16F877 data sheet'
1998\12\03@113352 by Sean RS Costall

flavicon
face
Chris Eddy <RemoveMEceddyKILLspamspamNB.NET> expounded:

> Thanks a ton, Sean.  I have been begging for the 87X and 77X sheets, to
no
> avail.  I have what you would refer to as a 'stay at home' rep.  I call
him
> that because nobody in town can figure out if he ever comes out of his
> house.  I would be so inclined to email your data sheet to him, but why
> bother?  He wouldn't understand what it is.

That's really a shame.  The local support we have from Mchip is quite
good, even though we seem to rotate through FAEs on a regular basis.
Almost every data sheet/book we have ever received from our rep has
"Advance Information" stamped all over it.

The factory support is not as good - Mchip owes us because a design flaw
in the Pro Mate caused us to unknowingly wreck a lot of chips.  The
factory agreed to reduced pricing but still owes us development equipment
which we have not seen yet.  It's been about a year - I now doubt we'll
ever get proper compensation.

I was going to describe the problem, but it's too long-winded.  If you
don't use a configuration word equalling zero on your PICs, and/or you
don't make code-protected chips, there is no possibility of this
particular problem occurring.

--------------------------------------------------------------
-               Sean R.S. Costall, P.Eng                     -
-                   BW Research Ltd.                         -
-              #242  3030-3rd Avenue N.E.                    -
-                 Calgary, AB  T2A 6T7                       -
-  costallsSTOPspamspamspam_OUTcuug.ab.ca      spamBeGonecostallSTOPspamspamEraseMEnyquist.ee.ualberta.ca   -
--------------------------------------------------------------
- Calgary Area DSM:  http://www.cadvision.com/whitecd/CADSM/ -
--------------------------------------------------------------

1998\12\03@122311 by keithh

flavicon
face
What's the official ETA on flash PICs?

'Availability of 16F877'
1998\12\05@113619 by Ray Doerr

picon face
   Does anyone know when the 16F877 will be available for production runs.

Thanks Ray

1998\12\05@165443 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
At 11:35 1998-12-05 -0500, you wrote:
>    Does anyone know when the 16F877 will be available for production runs.
>
>Thanks Ray
>

And when and where can we get a few samples?

Where can we learn more about it«s debugging feature. The datasheet just
say it is available from Mchip and uses the serial programming pins,
consumes one stack level and some program memory.

BTW, I could not reach http://www.microchip.com for the moment.

Thanks in advance
/Morgan

/Morgan
       Morgan Olsson                   ph  +46(0)414 70741
       MORGANS REGLERTEKNIK            fax +46(0)414 70331
       H€LLEKS           (in A-Z letters: "HALLEKAS")
       SE-277 35 KIVIK, SWEDEN               KILLspammrtspamBeGonespaminame.com
___________________________________________________________

1998\12\06@150047 by Marc

flavicon
face
> Where can we learn more about it«s debugging feature. The datasheet just
> say it is available from Mchip and uses the serial programming pins,
> consumes one stack level and some program memory.

How compatible is it to the 16C77? I have a 16C77 HEX file that I don't
have the source of. I can't do changes to it, except for hex editing
single commands (to not move stuff around). Can I use the 16F877 with
that software?

'16F877 datasheet available'
1998\12\07@082508 by Wolfgang Strobl

flavicon
face
Anybody remembering the question about the maximum voltage
allowed for pulling up RA4?

Well, on page 157 of the PIC16F87X manual,
under "absolute maximum ratings", it says "Voltage on RA4 with
respect to Vss...0 to 8.5V".

That's a lot less than the 0..+14V suggested by the midrange manual.
:-(

--
     o      (     EraseMEWolfgang.StroblspamEraseMEgmd.de (+49 2241) 14-2394
    /\        *   GMD mbH                       #include
  _`\ `_<===      Schloss Birlinghoven,         <std.disclaimer>
__(_)/_(_)___.-._  53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany ________________

'Availability of 16F877'
1998\12\07@102052 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>How compatible is it to the 16C77? I have a 16C77 HEX file that I don't
>have the source of. I can't do changes to it, except for hex editing
>single commands (to not move stuff around). Can I use the 16F877 with
>that software?

Memory layout appears very similar.  A few things are changed/added (2
bytes for ADRES, 2 for EEADR, 2 for EEDATA).

Overall, it looks good.

Only thing I picked up right away wrong is that you can't have a
code-protected chip program itself.  That, says I, is the stupidest thing
around.  The reason for self-programming is so that you can update it in
the field w/o sharing the code with everybody who cares to read it from
their chip burner.

Andy


==================================================================
Andy Kunz - Statistical Research, Inc. - Westfield, New Jersey USA
==================================================================

1998\12\08@065358 by Caisson

flavicon
face
> Van: Marc <@spam@marc@spam@spamspam_OUTAARGH.FRANKEN.DE>
> Aan: spamBeGonePICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Onderwerp: Re: Availability of 16F877
> Datum: zondag 6 december 1998 20:31

Hello Marc,

<Snip>

> How compatible is it to the 16C77? I have a 16C77 HEX file that I don't
> have the source of. I can't do changes to it, except for hex editing
> single commands (to not move stuff around). Can I use the 16F877 with
> that software?

Maybe you could disassemble the code ...  I have heard that MPLAB can do it
for you, but to write a dis-assembler yourself should be (and is, I've
'build' one in QBasic for the 16C84 and 17C44) quite easy.

Greetz,
 Rudy Wieser

1998\12\08@093824 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>> How compatible is it to the 16C77? I have a 16C77 HEX file that I don't
>> have the source of. I can't do changes to it, except for hex editing
>> single commands (to not move stuff around). Can I use the 16F877 with
>> that software?
>
>Maybe you could disassemble the code ...  I have heard that MPLAB can do it
>for you, but to write a dis-assembler yourself should be (and is, I've
>'build' one in QBasic for the 16C84 and 17C44) quite easy.

Timo Rossi also did a disassembler which I've used and like.  I don't have
the URL (I found it with Alta Vista or Yahoo) but if you e-mail PRIVATE
.....mtdesignspam_OUTspamfast.net I'll send you the ZIP file.

Andy


==================================================================
 Andy Kunz - Montana Design - http://www.users.fast.net/~montana
==================================================================

1998\12\08@094818 by Wolfgang Kynast

picon face
Hi,

AK> Timo Rossi also did a disassembler which I've used and like.  I don't have
AK> the URL

http://www.trixatronic.co.jyu.fi/trossi/pic/

easily found on my PIC links page ;-)

Regards,
Wolfgang
--
PIC links:
http://people.frankfurt.netsurf.de/wky/pic.htm

1998\12\08@111352 by Dave Celsnak

picon face
I'm not sure why you would use a brand new, possibly more expensive part
in replacement for a 16c77.  The flash parts are going to have a 10-bit
A/D, with 2 registers for the result.  That's the only difference I've
been able to pic (no pun) out of the datasheet since yesterday.  And of
course, the new flash programming specifications.
-Dave

>Date:         Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:21:55 +0100
>Reply-To:     pic microcontroller discussion list
<TakeThisOuTPICLIST.....spamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
{Quote hidden}

don't
>> have the source of. I can't do changes to it, except for hex editing
>> single commands (to not move stuff around). Can I use the 16F877 with
>> that software?
>
>Maybe you could disassemble the code ...  I have heard that MPLAB can
do it
>for you, but to write a dis-assembler yourself should be (and is, I've
>'build' one in QBasic for the 16C84 and 17C44) quite easy.
>
>Greetz,
>  Rudy Wieser


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

1998\12\08@112004 by Harrison Cooper

flavicon
face
> I'm not sure why you would use a brand new, possibly more expensive part
> in replacement for a 16c77.  The flash parts are going to have a 10-bit
> A/D, with 2 registers for the result.  That's the only difference I've
> been able to pic (no pun) out of the datasheet since yesterday.  And of
> course, the new flash programming specifications.
>
>
------------->  what about the internal EEPROM similar to the F84 ? Are
there other parts now besides this new one that contains this?

1998\12\08@140259 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 08:11 AM 12/8/98 PST, you wrote:
>I'm not sure why you would use a brand new, possibly more expensive part
>in replacement for a 16c77.  The flash parts are going to have a 10-bit
>A/D, with 2 registers for the result.  That's the only difference I've
>been able to pic (no pun) out of the datasheet since yesterday.  And of
>course, the new flash programming specifications.

THey are also self-programmable and have more internal EEPROM.

==================================================================
 Andy Kunz - Montana Design - http://www.users.fast.net/~montana
==================================================================

1998\12\11@135327 by Josef Hanzal

flavicon
face
>THey are also self-programmable and have more internal EEPROM.

Andy, you frighten me. I was just about to start carrier as an embedded
chips programmer, and these nasty self-programmable chips ruined all my dreams
)):-<. Oh well, life is tough.

Josef


'PIC 16f877 is Real !'
1999\03\04@151041 by Ralph Stickley
flavicon
face
I finally received the long awaited 16f877...anyone know of a
programmer which would work for this (40pin dip) ?
Does this programmer initialize/program the on board E2PROM ?

Just wondering....Thanks!
Ralph

1999\03\04@220206 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 03:03 PM 3/4/99 -0500, you wrote:
>I finally received the long awaited 16f877...anyone know of a
>programmer which would work for this (40pin dip) ?
>Does this programmer initialize/program the on board E2PROM ?

Carmacon borrowed my chip for their latest upgrade, so I imagine it will be
available pretty soon.  http://www.carmacon.com

Andy

1999\03\05@061151 by emartin

flavicon
face
Dear all :


Ralph Stickley write :


>I finally received the long awaited 16f877...anyone know of a
>programmer which would work for this (40pin dip) ?
>Does this programmer initialize/program the on board E2PROM ?

>Just wondering....Thanks!
>Ralph


Could any inform me about how buy samples of 16F8XX. I interested in some
samples to modify the Windows 95/98 sofware of mi MultiPIC porgrammer.

Many thanks in advance.

Eugenio Martin Cuenca

1999\03\05@092306 by Octavio Nogueira

flavicon
face
>I finally received the long awaited 16f877...anyone know of a
>programmer which would work for this (40pin dip) ?
>Does this programmer initialize/program the on board E2PROM ?
>
>Just wondering....Thanks!
>Ralph
>

ProPic 2 does.
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New ProPic 2  homepage:      http://www.propic2.com
PIC Programmer for Windows with down to earth price
===================================================

1999\03\07@173938 by Tony Nixon

flavicon
picon face
PicNPokes programmer now has support for the F87x devices.

Ralph Stickley wrote:
>
> I finally received the long awaited 16f877...anyone know of a
> programmer which would work for this (40pin dip) ?
> Does this programmer initialize/program the on board E2PROM ?
>
> Just wondering....Thanks!
> Ralph

--
Best regards

Tony

PicNPoke - Multimedia 16F84 Beginners PIC Tools.

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email picnpokeEraseMEspamcdi.com.au

'16F877'
1999\03\08@001557 by Stewart Pye

flavicon
face
Hi,

Could anyone tell me where to get some 16F877's. All the suppliers I've
checked don't have it.

Thanks,
Stewart Pye

'PIC16F877'
1999\03\09@215436 by Dennie Lee

flavicon
face
I have seen some messages about some members of this list having a
PIC16F877, but I haven't had any luck finding them.  Are they still in
"beta" (i.e. those Piclisters who have one received it straight from MChip
for evaluation purposes), or are they up for general sale.  I called
Microchip, and one of their reps sent me to Arrow Electronics.  They said
they didn't have any.  Can anyone buy them, and if so, where.  Thanks in
advance.


-- Dennie Lee --
RemoveMEdwlee1EraseMEspamspam_OUTbbtel.com                ICQ: 19351768
http://www.uofl.edu/~dwlee001  <- Being Rebuilt, painfully slowly!
Call: KF4GDK

'16F877 a real part?'
1999\03\12@094142 by Amos, Jim

flavicon
face
Is the 16F877 a real part?  I have seen the prelim data sheets, and the
local distributor has them entered into their systems, but I haven't seen
reference to anyone having any real parts yet.

I am starting up a new PIC developement based on the 16C74, and would prefer
to use a flash part instead of the Windows ceramic version.

Regards,
Jim Amos

@spam@jamosRemoveMEspamEraseMEaironet.com
Sr. Digital HW Engineer
Aironet Wireless Communications, Inc.
330-664-7386
330-664-7301 (fax)

1999\03\12@105749 by Ralph Stickley

flavicon
face
Yes!!! I got one last week...sitting here looking at it now.....ahhhhh
(Thanks to Thrid Wave Solutions, manufacturers reps).

I even have the Data book (Printed and bound, copyright 1998), thanks to Future
Electronics distributor).

Now, if only our programmer would program it!

I'm thinking these are first-offs from the sample run (date code: 9904B2P
whatever that means, 4th week of 99 when the silicon was made or when the chip
was made ??) Someone said end of march for production runs, but then that's what
mchip said about January!)

Chips in the mail ?

Ralph

*Microsoft has a Y2K problem: its called Linux!*
*Microsoft ?? Is that some kind of toilet paper ??*


Amos, Jim wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\03\12@111505 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>I'm thinking these are first-offs from the sample run (date code: 9904B2P
>whatever that means, 4th week of 99 when the silicon was made or when the
chip
>was made ??) Someone said end of march for production runs, but then
that's what
>mchip said about January!)

B2 is the version of the die.  It isn't released yet AFAIK.  You probably
also can find an "ES" on the chip.

Andy


  \-----------------/
   \     /---\     /
    \    |   |    /          Andy Kunz
     \   /---\   /           Montana Design
/---------+   +---------\     http://www.montanadesign.com
| /  |----|___|----|  \ |
\/___|      *      |___\/     Go fast, turn right,
                              and keep the wet side down!

1999\03\13@023214 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 10:50 12/03/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Yes!!! I got one last week...sitting here looking at it now.....ahhhhh
>(Thanks to Thrid Wave Solutions, manufacturers reps).
>
>I even have the Data book (Printed and bound, copyright 1998), thanks to
Future
>Electronics distributor).
>
>Now, if only our programmer would program it!

What is your programmer? I have 16F87x support for:

WARP-3
PP1
P16PRO
TAIT CLASSIC
DT001
ITU PIC-1
PROPIC (OEM Support also available fromm http://www.propic.com or
propic2.com, one or the other.)
PICSTART 16C
EPIC (likely but Subject to confirmation)

Maybe I can I help??

Note, I have not got one of these suckers yet to test with so I'm  relying
on my
experience (and feedback) to get my software right. If you use MPLAB with
the above
programmers then this should be ok.


Jim
________________________________________
Jim Robertson
Email: @spam@newfoundspam_OUTspam.....pipeline.com.au
http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers and firmware
upgrades for many programmers.
________________________________________

1999\03\13@085819 by ryan pogge

flavicon
face
what are the specs on this part?
how much flash, I2C port? IO lines?
thanks.
Ryan



>At 10:50 12/03/99 -0500, you wrote:
>>Yes!!! I got one last week...sitting here looking at it
now.....ahhhhh
>>(Thanks to Thrid Wave Solutions, manufacturers reps).
>>
>>I even have the Data book (Printed and bound, copyright
1998), thanks to
{Quote hidden}

http://www.propic.com or
>propic2.com, one or the other.)
>PICSTART 16C
>EPIC (likely but Subject to confirmation)
>
>Maybe I can I help??
>
>Note, I have not got one of these suckers yet to test with
so I'm  relying
>on my
>experience (and feedback) to get my software right. If you
use MPLAB with
{Quote hidden}

1999\03\14@081836 by Octavio Nogueira

flavicon
face
>Yes!!! I got one last week...sitting here looking at it now.....ahhhhh
>(Thanks to Thrid Wave Solutions, manufacturers reps).
>
>I even have the Data book (Printed and bound, copyright 1998), thanks to
Future
>Electronics distributor).
>
>Now, if only our programmer would program it!
>

if you were using ProPic 2 your problem would be solved.
ProPic 2 support 16F877 already.

                         /"\
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Octavio Nogueira          / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL
===================================================
nogueiraspamBeGonespampropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
>From the creator of ProPic,ProPic 2 now much better
New ProPic 2  homepage:      http://www.propic2.com
PIC Programmer for Windows with down to earth price
===================================================

1999\03\14@221744 by genesys

flavicon
face
> if you were using ProPic 2 your problem would be solved.
> ProPic 2 support 16F877 already.

What about propic 1?

German Gentile?

'16F877 Config bits'
1999\03\19@002918 by Vincent Deno

flavicon
face
Can anyone confirm that the configuration bits can/cannot be changed
from within the program with the 16F877?  It would be nice to be able to
enable/disable the WDT timer for my current system.

Regards,

Vincent Deno
--------------
Design Engineer
Theta Digital Corp.
http://www.thetadigital.com
RemoveMEdenovj@spam@spamspamBeGoneemail.uc.edu
_____________
| ____   ____ |
|/| | | | | |\|
| | |/| |\| | |
| | | | | | | |
| |_/ | | \_| |
| |   | |   | |
|_/  /___\  \_|

1999\03\19@095226 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 12:28 AM 3/19/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Can anyone confirm that the configuration bits can/cannot be changed
>from within the program with the 16F877?  It would be nice to be able to
>enable/disable the WDT timer for my current system.

CANNNOT

  \-----------------/
   \     /---\     /
    \    |   |    /          Andy Kunz
     \   /---\   /           Montana Design
/---------+   +---------\     http://www.montanadesign.com
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\/___|      *      |___\/     Go fast, turn right,
                              and keep the wet side down!

'16F877 Distributors...'
1999\03\25@134454 by Howard McGinnis

flavicon
face
Who's carrying the 16F877 parts?

TIA,
Howard
Howard McGinnis
.....hmcginni@spam@spamEraseMEdigital.net
Electronic Visions, Inc.
1650 Barrett Drive
Rockledge FL 32955
(407) 632-7530
http://ddi.digital.net/~hmcginni
.....mcginnisRemoveMEspame-visions.com

1999\03\25@135729 by Max Toole

picon face
In a message dated 3/25/99 12:44:47 PM Central Standard Time,
.....hmcginniSTOPspamspam@spam@DIGITAL.NET writes:

> Who's carrying the 16F877 parts?
>
I have been trying to get samples of the 16F873 through FAI Electronics, in
Atlanta, and I am hearing that production quantities will not be available
until mid June.

Max

1999\03\25@234232 by Tjaart van der Walt

flavicon
face
Howard McGinnis wrote:
>
> Who's carrying the 16F877 parts?

Generally speaking, any Mchip distributor. If you
are a valued customer, you would have had a free
sample or two in December already.

If, on the other hand, you criticize Microchip
constantly for their high prices and compiler
support policy, you may be a persona non grata.
In this case you have a snowball's hope in hell
of getting a sample.

BTW I haven't seen one myself ;) hehehehehe

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1999\03\26@101510 by Howard McGinnis

flavicon
face
FAI just called and said that the 16F877 is not in production yet.....
Howard McGinnis
spamBeGonehmcginniKILLspamspam@spam@digital.net
Electronic Visions, Inc.
1650 Barrett Drive
Rockledge FL 32955
(407) 632-7530
http://ddi.digital.net/~hmcginni
mcginnisspam_OUTspam@spam@e-visions.com

'16F877 availability, config and programming'
1999\03\26@171031 by Jeffrey Soo Hoo

flavicon
face
I have been using the 16F877 since the "A" release in September.
The F877 release was unexpectedly delayed because of an issue with the
silicon, that is why they are listed but hard to get.  My guess is that
in April they will be readily available as a qualified part.
As far as the config bits are concerned I don't think they can be
changed, like the 16C77 they are part of the "program space".  If you
look in the hex file you can find their address (2007h?) and maybe you
can try to change them by "flashing" that word but the flashing
interrupts the program flow for about 10ms and I'm not sure what would
happen in the mean time if you mess with the config bits.   You should
definately to clear the WDT right before you start the flash process.
As far as programming goes, I hate to state the obvious but the Pro-Mate
and the Pro-Mate II both program the F877 if the programmer firmware
available with MPLab 4.00 is downloaded to them.  These programmers will
give you frequent EEData Fail errors with the B2 silicon.  I found the
hard way that if you keep trying they will work.

1999\03\26@220716 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 16:59 26/03/99 -0500, you wrote:

snip...

>As far as programming goes, I hate to state the obvious but the Pro-Mate
>and the Pro-Mate II both program the F877 if the programmer firmware
>available with MPLab 4.00 is downloaded to them.  These programmers will
>give you frequent EEData Fail errors with the B2 silicon.  I found the
>hard way that if you keep trying they will work.
>

A quick reading of the errata sheet suggested to me that...

This is an errata issue with the silicon and not to do will the programmers
themselves. The same problem is present on all programmers unless they
incorperate a work around.

Jim
________________________________________
Email: spamBeGonenewfound@spam@spampipeline.com.au
http://www.pipeline.com.au/users/newfound
WARP-3 SALE now on. $48USD with world delivery.
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers and firmware
upgrades for many programmers.
________________________________________

'16F877 Availability (MAY!)'
1999\03\30@084528 by Steven Kosmerchock

flavicon
face
Friends,
Just finished talking to my MCHIP REP. and they told
me that the 16F877 parts along with their In Circuit Debugger
will NOT be available in production (IE, not as Engineering
Samples) until the middle of may. I was told in december, that
they would be out in early march..........hmmmmmm. Ever
feel like you're getting the run around! Thought I'd pass the
info along.......................

Best regards,
Steven


Steven Kosmerchock
Engineering Technician/Student
CELWAVE
Phoenix   Arizona   USA
Email:   RemoveMEsteve.kosmerchockEraseMEspamKILLspamcelwave.com
http://www.geocities.com/researchtriangle/lab/6584


'16F877 delay (?)'
1999\04\29@021731 by Dr. Imre Bartfai
flavicon
face
Hi there,

the Hungarian distributor of Microchip has implicitly stated they can
deliver 16F877 earliest at June. Can someone share his/her experiences?
I'm waiting for this chip in a very intensive way because of I'm fed up
with the UV-erase - reprogram - test cycle.

Thank you in advance
Imre

1999\04\29@024925 by Stefan Sczekalla-Waldschmidt

flavicon
face
Hallo Imre,

"Dr. Imre Bartfai" wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> the Hungarian distributor of Microchip has implicitly stated they can
> deliver 16F877 earliest at June. Can someone share his/her experiences?
> I'm waiting for this chip in a very intensive way because of I'm fed up
> with the UV-erase - reprogram - test cycle.

You may also consider to look at the Atmel AVR AT90S2333 or AT90S4433.
they seem to be somewhat similar to the 873.

Additional advance: a very powerful instruction set with support
for 16bit math ( e.g. add with carry ) etc ...

They are also available at "Conrad electronic" ( the german digi-key :-)
)

Kind regards,

       Stefan

1999\04\29@042109 by Dr. Imre Bartfai

flavicon
face
Hallo Stevan,

I appreciate your advice. However, I must consider the huge experience
collected in conjunction with PIC, the high-level language compilers (C,
PicBasic, JAL, SIL, Forth etc) are available (partly for free), programmer
software, programmers as hardware devices etc. Furthermore, I insist of
using DOS, and all I mentioned run considerably convenient, fast and
reliable in DOS environment. And ... only PIC has such admirable PICLIST
;-)
BTW I play in myself with the idea to work with ATMEL's '51 clone family.
Has also high-level compiler for DOS (C), programmer, etc. But, the change
won't be easy...

Regards,
Imre


On Thu, 29 Apr 1999, Stefan Sczekalla-Waldschmidt wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\04\29@070651 by Stefan Sczekalla-Waldschmidt

flavicon
face
Hi Imre,

"Dr. Imre Bartfai" wrote:
>
> Hallo Stefan,
>
> I appreciate your advice. However, I must consider the huge experience
> collected in conjunction with PIC, the high-level language compilers (C,
> PicBasic, JAL, SIL, Forth etc) are available (partly for free), programmer
> software, programmers as hardware devices etc.

And the PICLIST as outstanding resource too ... You are totally right.
Also to consider: New Hardware -> new possible sources for problems and
headaches. But they are 4-times "faster" at the same clock and have a
more powerful and straigth instruction-set not to mention that they are
Flash too.

While I will stay with PIC's, I'll give them a try.

> Furthermore, I insist of
> using DOS, and all I mentioned run considerably convenient, fast and
> reliable in DOS environment.

I would prefer linux with GUI ...

> And ... only PIC has such admirable PICLIST
> ;-)

> BTW I play in myself with the idea to work with ATMEL's '51 clone family.
> Has also high-level compiler for DOS (C), programmer, etc. But, the change
> won't be easy...
>
> Regards,
> Imre

Kind regards,

       Stefan


'i - 16F877 samples ii - PIC 18xxx info'
1999\05\18@083403 by Russell McMahon
picon face
Imre,

Did you find a source of 16F877?
I went to a Microchip seminar today (in New Zealand ) and they were
handing out what they said were alpha-versions of the chip one per
attendee.

Code on top is 9915B3P - how old is that (where'd I put that recent
release re new date codes :-))

They also discussed the coming PIC 18xxx family - presumably they
have been doing this at other meeting recently. If not then I suppose
I will be inundated. I haven't looked at the MChip website lately -
is information on this new line generally available?




Russell McMahon

From: Dr. Imre Bartfai <spamBeGonerootspam_OUTspamRemoveMEPROF.PMMF.HU>
Date: Thursday, April 29, 1999 6:17 PM
Subject: 16F877 delay (?)


>Hi there,
>
>the Hungarian distributor of Microchip has implicitly stated they
can
>deliver 16F877 earliest at June. Can someone share his/her
experiences?
>I'm waiting for this chip in a very intensive way because of I'm fed
up
>with the UV-erase - reprogram - test cycle.
>
>Thank you in advance
>Imre
>

1999\05\18@101631 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Tue, 18 May 1999, Russell McMahon wrote:

> They also discussed the coming PIC 18xxx family - presumably they
> have been doing this at other meeting recently. If not then I suppose
> I will be inundated. I haven't looked at the MChip website lately -
> is information on this new line generally available?

This is going to be a really neat part. There is no information about on
the Web site just yet. My understanding is that the official data sheet
will be released in July along with the official announcement of the part.
I asked for a preliminary data sheet (after the FAE at the mchip seminar
said that they're available) but was denied the request (after the mchip
internal guys said no way til July). Bummer. But as a consolation, I did
get a copy of the instruction set details (e.g. opcodes). gpasm will
hopefully have support for the 18Cxxx hopefully soon after the part is
officially announced. BTW, If you ask someone at mchip, maybe you can get
the instruction set too. Please don't ask me because I can't give it to
you...


Scott

1999\05\18@113121 by Darrel Johansen

picon face
    Scott wrote:

    >... BTW, If you ask someone at mchip, maybe you can get the
    >instruction set too. Please don't ask me because I
    >can't give it to you...

    You might want to check out the new MPASM User's Guide or the MPASM
    Quick Reference Card... ;-!

    Darrel

1999\05\19@032326 by g.daniel.invent.design

flavicon
face
Darrel Johansen wrote:
>
>      Scott wrote:
>
>      >... BTW, If you ask someone at mchip, maybe you can get the
>      >instruction set too. Please don't ask me because I
>      >can't give it to you...
>
>      You might want to check out the new MPASM User's Guide or the MPASM
>      Quick Reference Card... ;-!
>
>      Darrel

I guess Scott D is wearing the uChip logo as a tatoo on his ***

1999\05\19@085316 by Andres Tarzia

flavicon
face
The "9915" code refers to "Year 99", "Week 15" that is, near the end of
April.
I don't know about the "B3P" suffix.

Regards,
Andres Tarzia
Technology Consultant, SMART S.A.
e-mail: .....atarziaspamRemoveMEsmart.com.ar

-----Original Message-----
From: Russell McMahon [apptechspam@spam@CLEAR.NET.NZ]
Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 04:39
To: EraseMEPICLISTRemoveMEspamSTOPspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: i - 16F877 samples ii - PIC 18xxx info

[...content deleted...]

Code on top is 9915B3P - how old is that (where'd I put that recent
release re new date codes :-))

[...content deleted...]

Russell McMahon

1999\05\19@163711 by roblid

flavicon
face
I did notice Arrow.com (US- site) had a price listed for 877 but
no availability. Depending on speed etc around US $11-13.

Thats about $23NZ which makes the AVR look damn attractive, even
with new programmer etc. I was quoted about $4.70NZ for the
2313.

1999\05\21@123131 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 09:55 AM 5/19/99 -0300, you wrote:
>The "9915" code refers to "Year 99", "Week 15" that is, near the end of
>April.
>I don't know about the "B3P" suffix.

Rev level of silicon in Plastic case.

I have a B2 rev, so you're one up on me.

I'm surprised you got a chip w/o docs.  Mine came with them.

Andy

==================================================================
  Montana Design Tech Support - http://www.montanadesign.com
==================================================================

'date codes (was Re: i - 16F877 samples ii - PIC 18'
1999\05\21@143922 by Eric Smith

flavicon
face
> >The "9915" code refers to "Year 99", "Week 15" that is, near the end of
> >April.
> >I don't know about the "B3P" suffix.
>
> Rev level of silicon in Plastic case.
> I have a B2 rev, so you're one up on me.

Not quite.  The "P" for plastic is at the end of the part number, not the
date code.  For instance, the part I received at the seminar is marked:

       PIC16F877-ES/P
       9908BSP

The "ES" is for Engineering Sample.  For production parts, ES would be
replaced by the speed grade, or "JW" for a windowed part [*], or "ME" for
a bondout.

After the date code, the first character designates the facility in which the
wafer was produced, the second character is the mask revision, and the
third character designates the facility in which the part was packaged.

So a "B3P" part has mask revision 3 (not "B3").

The tricky part is when they use both letters and numbers for the mask
revision.  I'm not sure whether rev S is newer or older than rev 3.
One might presume it to be older judging by the date code, but there's not
always a correlation.

The markings are explained in the back of almost any Microchip data sheet.
For instance, in the 16F877 data sheet, document DS30292A, it is in
section 17 on page 179.

Eric


[*] Obviously they are not likely to put flash parts in a windowed package.

'i - 16F877 samples ii - PIC 18xxx info'
1999\05\24@043214 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Andy, as I understand things, you sent Carl (Carmacon) one of your
first samples? And, those chips had a problem with EEPROM? I contacted
Carl about the current status and I still have the rev B022 firmware.
He was going to send rev B024 but I've been waiting for 16F877 samples
to do some beta testing with the current firmware. I did not put in a
sample request until four weeks ago, hoping I would get current silicon.
My rep warned me that they were in short supply. They usually send
samples within a week. I did get the data book. What Carmacon firmware
revision are you using?

  - Tom

At 11:45 AM 5/21/99 -0400, Andy Kunz wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\05\24@105910 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>   Andy, as I understand things, you sent Carl (Carmacon) one of your
>first samples? And, those chips had a problem with EEPROM? I contacted

Yes, and I have it back now.

>samples within a week. I did get the data book. What Carmacon firmware
>revision are you using?

B024 with 1.25f driver.  That might not be the latest driver - I use a
variety of machines and sometimes things don't get distributed to all them
properly.

Andy
==================================================================
  Montana Design Tech Support - http://www.montanadesign.com
==================================================================

1999\05\25@104745 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Andy, thanks. My rep says the samples should be here soon but no
idea on what rev... I'll ask Carl to send the B024 update. Did you
have any problems with the 16F8xx and B024 firmware other than EEPROM?
The reason I've held back on both the samples and the firmware update
is that I need to move some 16C77 code to the 16F877 and it's 12-Bit
A/Ds for use in a DAQ system and I want to store calibration data in
EEPROM. It looks like I'll have plenty of time for my garden until I
get my `paws' on updated silicon...

  BTW, have you used the 16F877's 12-Bit A/D? I'm replacing an existing
design that used an external 12-Bit A/D and a precision 4.096V reference
with a pot to provide a 1mv resolution. I'm tempted to go back to a MAX186
A/D with it's internal reference and the data book `reference adjust'
circuit. I used that in my weather station several years ago and it's been
very accurate. That's my concern with the 16F877. Given a precision
reference, I wonder if I can get a similar accuracy. However, it would be
nice to eliminate the pot, external A/D, and allow the user to enter
calibration data to EEPROM.

  - Tom

At 10:55 AM 5/24/99 -0400, Andy Kunz wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\05\25@122355 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>have any problems with the 16F8xx and B024 firmware other than EEPROM?

The version of chip I have has known problems writing.  I have several
copies of the 877 programming spec also, with different timings <G>.

The current version uses, I believe, '84 mode to burn the 877.  SLow but at
least it meets all the varieties of spec from Mchip.

>   BTW, have you used the 16F877's 12-Bit A/D? I'm replacing an existing

Only in 8-bit mode (that is, shifted so the LSbits are somewhere else and
don't get used.  This is the default mode, btw).

>very accurate. That's my concern with the 16F877. Given a precision
>reference, I wonder if I can get a similar accuracy. However, it would be

I would try it, but not get my hopes up.  They've never been too good on
the analog side of things.

Andy

==================================================================
  Montana Design Tech Support - http://www.montanadesign.com
==================================================================


'I found 16F877's'
1999\06\04@151359 by David Olson
flavicon
face
Future in Bolton Mass - 978-779-3000, has a bunch of 16F877's in stock.
These are the 40-pin jobs and it looks like the 28 pin ones won't be
available for 6 weeks according to my rep. Get 'em while they're hot.

No luck at DigiKey...

-DO

1999\06\04@202214 by David Covick

flavicon
face
----- Original Message -----
From: David Olson <RemoveMEdolsonKILLspamspamTakeThisOuTPROGRESS.COM>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, June 04, 1999 12:13 PM
Subject: I found 16F877's


> Future in Bolton Mass - 978-779-3000, has a bunch of 16F877's in stock.
> These are the 40-pin jobs and it looks like the 28 pin ones won't be
> available for 6 weeks according to my rep. Get 'em while they're hot.
>
> No luck at DigiKey...
>
> -DO
>

I called Future today right after this post and they have no inventory.  Not
even in their computer system.
They didn't even have a clue as to it's existance.........

I'd like to know who to talk to at Future?  Any ideas David?

1999\06\05@002756 by Ravi Pailoor

flavicon
face
part 0 656 bytes content-type:text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" (decoded 7bit)

David Olson wrote:

> Future in Bolton Mass - 978-779-3000, has a bunch of 16F877's in stock.
> These are the 40-pin jobs and it looks like the 28 pin ones won't be
> available for 6 weeks according to my rep. Get 'em while they're hot.
>
> No luck at DigiKey...
>
> -DO

--
Website : http://business.vsnl.com/chiptech


Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf"
Content-Description: Card for Ravi Pailoor
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Attachment converted: wonderland:vcard.vcf (TEXT/CSOm) (00007B16)

1999\06\05@082649 by David Olson

flavicon
face
Wow, that's weird. I was on the phone with them when I was writing the note.
I didn't catch the name of the chap that was helping me because my rep was
out of town. Future assigns their inside sales reps according to State so
I'm not sure who they flipped you to. Also, Future has about 6 different
companies and I'd be willing to bet that they sent you to the wrong one.
They should have sent you to the Future Active folks - I learned this by
accident one day.

I suggest that maybe we ask for "Future Active, Inside Sales" - that may
help.

-DO

[Some parts snipped]

{Quote hidden}

1999\06\05@104450 by David Covick

flavicon
face
> Wow, that's weird. I was on the phone with them when I was writing the
note.
> I didn't catch the name of the chap that was helping me because my rep was
> out of town. Future assigns their inside sales reps according to State so
> I'm not sure who they flipped you to. Also, Future has about 6 different
> companies and I'd be willing to bet that they sent you to the wrong one.
> They should have sent you to the Future Active folks - I learned this by
> accident one day.
>
> I suggest that maybe we ask for "Future Active, Inside Sales" - that may
> help.
>
> -DO
>

Thanks I'll try that David.

'Price on the totally cool 16F877?'
1999\06\06@144158 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
I'm perusing the datasheet now and I'm definitely in love. How much are these
parts going for. I think I need to buy a tube.

Also I still can't find any reference to the part on Digikey's web site despite
reports here that Digikey has them. Do I need to call them?

Thanks for any info.

BAJ

'Price on the totally cold 16F877?'
1999\06\06@233935 by Tjaart van der Walt

flavicon
face
Byron A Jeff wrote:
>
> I'm perusing the datasheet now and I'm definitely in love. How much are these
> parts going for. I think I need to buy a tube.
>
> Also I still can't find any reference to the part on Digikey's web site despit
e
> reports here that Digikey has them. Do I need to call them?
>
> Thanks for any info.

The pricing on the 16$877 is double that of the
ATMEL AVR 90LS8535, which has more goodies in it.

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1999\06\07@080604 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> Byron A Jeff wrote:
> >
> > I'm perusing the datasheet now and I'm definitely in love. How much are thes
e
> > parts going for. I think I need to buy a tube.
> >
> > Also I still can't find any reference to the part on Digikey's web site desp
ite
> > reports here that Digikey has them. Do I need to call them?
> >
> > Thanks for any info.
>
> The pricing on the 16$877 is double that of the
> ATMEL AVR 90LS8535, which has more goodies in it.

Not helpful Tjaart, but I'll bite.

I'm a Linux guy and I only use Linux for my development. Does Atmel or anyone
else have a Linux/Unix based assembler,simulator and programmer for the
90LS8535?

I can use gpasm for program the 877, I already have a high voltage 16C84
pic programm to program it and the software to drive the programmer. gpsim
has come along nicely.

The software I'm using is already written in PIC assembly.

I'm not buying production quantites so even at double the price it's well
worth my investment.

Actually this is helpful. You said that the Atmel part is $5.90. So at double
the price we're talking about $12 or so. That helps. Thanks.

BAJ

1999\06\07@095533 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
-
- >
- > Byron A Jeff wrote:
- > >
- > > I'm perusing the datasheet now and I'm definitely in love. How much are th
ese
- > > parts going for. I think I need to buy a tube.
- > >
- > > Also I still can't find any reference to the part on Digikey's web site de
spite
- > > reports here that Digikey has them. Do I need to call them?
- > >
- > > Thanks for any info.
- >
- > The pricing on the 16$877 is double that of the
- > ATMEL AVR 90LS8535, which has more goodies in it.
-
- Not helpful Tjaart, but I'll bite.
-
- I'm a Linux guy and I only use Linux for my development. Does Atmel or anyone
- else have a Linux/Unix based assembler,simulator and programmer for the
- 90LS8535?
-
- I can use gpasm for program the 877, I already have a high voltage 16C84
- pic programm to program it and the software to drive the programmer. gpsim
- has come along nicely.
-
- The software I'm using is already written in PIC assembly.
-
- I'm not buying production quantites so even at double the price it's well
- worth my investment.
-
- Actually this is helpful. You said that the Atmel part is $5.90. So at double
- the price we're talking about $12 or so. That helps. Thanks.

And an addendum. Where can you get Atmel parts. As a hobbiest it's tough
making relationships with distributors who really only want to talk to you if
you're planning on buying a half million pieces. So Generally I stick to
hobbiest friendly places: Digikey, BGMicro, Jameco, Marshall and DallasSemi's
small order lines. I'll go out on a limb to Future or Arrow if the part
warrants it.

Digikey has full integration of Microchip. I haven't seen Atmel there or
anywhere else I frequent.

I saw somewhere that for almost any product that there's a 10X price spread
between the low end and high end of the product. IIRC the example was that one
could buy a $30 kitchen faucet or a $300 kitchen faucet. The issue between the
two are style, material, craftsmanship, etc.

It's the same here. Microchip has worked damn hard to cultivate its PIC line.
They have been open and hobbiest friendly from the beginning. PIC is a brand
name and a pretty good one at that.

My grandfather only bought Zenith TV's. They were always more expensive, but
that's what he trusted. That's how I feel about PICs. So unless there is
an extremely compelling reason to switch, I probably won't. And even at $15
a pop, the 16C877 is a godsend.

I've learned from experience that standardizing even at a higher average cost
saves time and aggravation in the long run. So AMD based PCs are my computing
hardware platform, Linux is my OS, and PIC's are my microcontroller.

BAJ

1999\06\07@100609 by jamesp

picon face
What he said........


>-
>- >
>- > Byron A Jeff wrote:
>- > >
>- > > I'm perusing the datasheet now and I'm definitely in love. How much are
these
>- > > parts going for. I think I need to buy a tube.
>- > >
>- > > Also I still can't find any reference to the part on Digikey's web site
despite
{Quote hidden}

if
{Quote hidden}

one
>could buy a $30 kitchen faucet or a $300 kitchen faucet. The issue between
the
{Quote hidden}

1999\06\07@101159 by Steven Kosmerchock

flavicon
face
BAJ,

>And an addendum. Where can you get Atmel parts. As a hobbiest it's tough
>making relationships with distributors who really only want to talk to you if
>you're planning on buying a half million pieces. So Generally I stick to
>hobbiest friendly places: Digikey, BGMicro, Jameco, Marshall and DallasSemi's
>small order lines. I'll go out on a limb to Future or Arrow if the part
>warrants it.

Try JDR Microdevices (http://www.jdr.com). They carry ATMEL parts. Or you can
order parts with a credit card over the net with MARSHALL
(http://www.marshall.com). JDR Microdevices is a good company, check them
out! I've never had any problems.

Best regards,
Steven


Steven Kosmerchock
Engineering Technician/Student
CELWAVE
Phoenix   Arizona   USA
Email:   steve.kosmerchockspamspamcelwave.com
http://www.geocities.com/researchtriangle/lab/6584

1999\06\07@112031 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> BAJ,
>
> >And an addendum. Where can you get Atmel parts. As a hobbiest it's tough
> >making relationships with distributors who really only want to talk to you if
> >you're planning on buying a half million pieces. So Generally I stick to
> >hobbiest friendly places: Digikey, BGMicro, Jameco, Marshall and DallasSemi's
> >small order lines. I'll go out on a limb to Future or Arrow if the part
> >warrants it.
>
> Try JDR Microdevices (http://www.jdr.com). They carry ATMEL parts. Or you can
> order parts with a credit card over the net with MARSHALL
> (http://www.marshall.com). JDR Microdevices is a good company, check them
> out! I've never had any problems.

JDR is on that list too. But they only have the EEPROMS from Atmel, no
microcontrollers. At least on their website.

BAJ

1999\06\07@112238 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>an extremely compelling reason to switch, I probably won't. And even at $15
>a pop, the 16C877 is a godsend.

Wow, glad I'm buying them in quantity!  I get them under $10.

Andy
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1999\06\07@121422 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> >an extremely compelling reason to switch, I probably won't. And even at $15
> >a pop, the 16C877 is a godsend.
>
> Wow, glad I'm buying them in quantity!  I get them under $10.

Where? How?

BAJ

1999\06\07@122911 by Stefan Sczekalla-Waldschmidt

flavicon
face
Byron A Jeff wrote:
>
> -
> - >
> - > Byron A Jeff wrote:
> - > >
> - > > I'm perusing the datasheet now and I'm definitely in love. How much are
these
> - > > parts going for. I think I need to buy a tube.
> - > >
> - > > Also I still can't find any reference to the part on Digikey's web site
despite
{Quote hidden}

Conrad Electronic (http://www.conrad.de)

Have the whole available Family, I ordered some 90S4433 today,
price approx 9 Euro incl 16% local Tax .

{Quote hidden}

'Inf on: 16F877?'
1999\06\07@124005 by amartin

flavicon
face
A couple of questions on the 16f877:

       1) Is it an EEProm chip? (I assume so since its a 16fxx series, but I ne
w
to this)
       2) What are its advantages over the 16f84?
       3) Where in the USA can one buy them?

               -- Aaron

1999\06\07@160445 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> Digikey has the 16f877-20p's in stock quantity (1) is $14.95

I called them this morning. You have a part number? I'll try again right now.

You're right! Found it. The part number is PIC16F877-20/P. Price is $14.25.
It's not in the Parts Search Section yet but you can enter the part number
as shown on the web order page and it'll pop right up.

Good job Aaron. I'm copying this message to the list.

BAJ

1999\06\07@164156 by amartin

flavicon
face
Out of curiosity (and because I just ordered 2 of them), is this pin
compatible with
the 16f24?  Can I just pop this in and have a better "everything"??? Or do I
need to
relayout my board?  Also, where do I get the schematics to the chip?
       Thanks,
               Aaron

> {Original Message removed}

1999\06\07@165414 by Dan Larson

flavicon
face
On Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:03:06 -0400, Byron A Jeff wrote:

>>
>> Digikey has the 16f877-20p's in stock quantity (1) is $14.95
>
>I called them this morning. You have a part number? I'll try again right now.
>
>You're right! Found it. The part number is PIC16F877-20/P. Price is $14.25.
>It's not in the Parts Search Section yet but you can enter the part number
>as shown on the web order page and it'll pop right up.
>
>Good job Aaron. I'm copying this message to the list.

BTW, Entering PIC16F874-20/P also brings up an entry on the 16F874 for $13.23.
But, alas, they show up as 0 in stock.  Trying PIC16F876-20/P or PIC16F873-20/P
yeilds invalid part numbers.

I got my order in for two of the 877's. At the present time there are
only 986 left in stock.  Enough for everyone to get samples... If no
body is greedy that is...   ;-)

Happy Pic'n !!

Dan

1999\06\07@172309 by Max Toole

picon face
In a message dated 6/7/99 1:05:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
RemoveMEbyronKILLspamspam@spam@CC.GATECH.EDU writes:

<< I called them this morning. You have a part number? I'll try again right
now.

You're right! Found it. The part number is PIC16F877-20/P. Price is $14.25.
It's not in the Parts Search Section yet but you can enter the part number
as shown on the web order page and it'll pop right up.

Good job Aaron. I'm copying this message to the list.

BAJ
 >>
Hee, hee, Digikey probably only bought 100 to "test the water" on the new
part and, now, are they really going to be surprised!!!!
Max

1999\06\07@173740 by ronruss

flavicon
face
Actually they showed 923 when I checked.

Max Toole wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--

From: Ron Russ
  EMICROS  - Embedded Micro Software
 (http://www.emicros.com)
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'Price on the totally cold 16F877?'
1999\06\07@181956 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>> Wow, glad I'm buying them in quantity!  I get them under $10.
>
>Where? How?

FAI/Future.  Volume.

POint:  Don't let onesies prices scare you off.

Andy

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'Inf on: 16F877?'
1999\06\07@185702 by Eric Oliver

flavicon
face
>
> I got my order in for two of the 877's. At the present time there are
> only 986 left in stock.  Enough for everyone to get samples... If no
> body is greedy that is...   ;-)
>

I just bought 986 877's from Digikey, the price is now double <snicker ....>

'Price on the totally cold 16F877?'
1999\06\07@202132 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> >> Wow, glad I'm buying them in quantity!  I get them under $10.
> >
> >Where? How?
>
> FAI/Future.  Volume.
>
> POint:  Don't let onesies prices scare you off.

It didn't. What scared me off was that I couldn't get a onsie or a twosie.
Future only wanted to sell tensies!

BTW Digikey has them. Part number is PIC16F877-20/P. Both the web site and
the phone folks can find the part under that number. I ordered to for $14.25
each. I consider it a great savings over having to pay $142.10 for Future's
"volume" price.

BAJ

'Inf on: 16F877?'
1999\06\07@210401 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>I just bought 986 877's from Digikey, the price is now double <snicker ....>

If you had bought from FAI, you could have made $4.00 each profit selling
them at Digi-Key's price!

Andy
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'Price on the totally cold 16F877?'
1999\06\07@222226 by ShadeDemon

picon face
Andy Kunz wrote:
> >> Wow, glad I'm buying them in quantity!  I get them under $10.
> FAI/Future.  Volume.
> POint:  Don't let onesies prices scare you off.

 And at 25 it comes down to a pretty reasonable 8.60 each
for $215 total.  If they'd just make it hit that point at 10
I think they could sell more blocks of ten than individual
chips.

Alan

'Inf on: 16F877?'
1999\06\07@223734 by Dan Larson

flavicon
face
On Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:23:48 -0500, Eric Oliver wrote:

>>
>> I got my order in for two of the 877's. At the present time there are
>> only 986 left in stock.  Enough for everyone to get samples... If no
>> body is greedy that is...   ;-)
>>
>
>I just bought 986 877's from Digikey, the price is now double <snicker ....>
>


Well, since the 100 price at Digi-Key is,IIRC, about $812, that
means that the price only went up $2 to $16.24 <VBEG>

Besides, I have all that I'll want.  I'm only building robots and at
the rate I'm going, I'll have outgrown the PIC soon anyway (sour grapes)
....


Dan

1999\06\07@223749 by Eric Oliver

flavicon
face
Heck, if I was Bill Gates I would buy'em all and give one to everyone on this li
st ... How 'bout it Bill, I know your listening <g>.

Eric


On Monday, June 07, 1999 6:48 PM, Andy Kunz [SMTP:supportspamspamMONTANADESIGN.COM] wro
te:
{Quote hidden}

1999\06\07@232954 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
   Heck, if I was Bill Gates I would buy'em all and give one to everyone
   on this list ... How 'bout it Bill, I know your listening <g>.

Would you give Bill Gates your address just for a $15 chip ?

Bill

'Price on the totally cold 16F877?'
1999\06\08@004113 by Tjaart van der Walt

flavicon
face
Byron A Jeff wrote:
>
> And an addendum. Where can you get Atmel parts. As a hobbiest it's tough
> making relationships with distributors who really only want to talk to you if
> you're planning on buying a half million pieces. So Generally I stick to
> hobbiest friendly places: Digikey, BGMicro, Jameco, Marshall and DallasSemi's
> small order lines. I'll go out on a limb to Future or Arrow if the part
> warrants it.

We can get it from a few suppliers in South Africa. You can try
Arrow or Avnet.

> I've learned from experience that standardizing even at a higher average cost
> saves time and aggravation in the long run. So AMD based PCs are my computing
> hardware platform, Linux is my OS, and PIC's are my microcontroller.
I agree. Check out the migration path between AVR's.

No banking means no migration headaches. Have you had
a look at the Mega AVR? It is an awesome beast with 4X
the memory of the biggest PIC and a series of other bells
& whistles. It is also flash (of course), and cheaper than
the 17$7XX OTP PICs.

Where Mchip is hammering on the internal EEPROM as a sales
pitch (on some PICs), it is standard on the ATMELs. If you
are sick of using precious internal (OTP) ROM for I2C
libraries, you can get by much better with the internal EEPROM
in the AVR's. In fact, the 90LS8535 (equivalent of the 16$877)
has the equivalent of a 24C04 (512 bytes) of EEPROM built-in.

--
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1999\06\08@005259 by Eric Smith

flavicon
face
> > FAI/Future.  Volume.
> > POint:  Don't let onesies prices scare you off.
>   And at 25 it comes down to a pretty reasonable 8.60 each
> for $215 total.  If they'd just make it hit that point at 10
> I think they could sell more blocks of ten than individual
> chips.

You're assuming that they *want* to sell them in lots of ten.  They
don't.  It costs them more to deal with small orders, and they pass
those costs on to you.

'Inf on: 16F877?'
1999\06\08@103510 by Eric Oliver

flavicon
face
Ahh, but Bill knows all ...

On Monday, June 07, 1999 10:28 PM, William Chops Westfield [SMTP:billwspamBeGonespamspamBeGoneCISCO.COM
] wrote:
>     Heck, if I was Bill Gates I would buy'em all and give one to everyone
>     on this list ... How 'bout it Bill, I know your listening <g>.
>
> Would you give Bill Gates your address just for a $15 chip ?
>
> Bill
>

'Price on the totally cold 16F877?'
1999\06\08@150305 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> Byron A Jeff wrote:
> >
> > And an addendum. Where can you get Atmel parts. As a hobbiest it's tough
> > making relationships with distributors who really only want to talk to you i
f
> > you're planning on buying a half million pieces. So Generally I stick to
> > hobbiest friendly places: Digikey, BGMicro, Jameco, Marshall and DallasSemi'
s
> > small order lines. I'll go out on a limb to Future or Arrow if the part
> > warrants it.
>
> We can get it from a few suppliers in South Africa. You can try
> Arrow or Avnet.

Marshall Small Order sales has them too.

{Quote hidden}

But it's overkill for the types of applications I use PICs for. At this point
in time I really don't think I have a need for any 17X parts.

>
> Where Mchip is hammering on the internal EEPROM as a sales
> pitch (on some PICs), it is standard on the ATMELs. If you
> are sick of using precious internal (OTP) ROM for I2C
> libraries, you can get by much better with the internal EEPROM
> in the AVR's. In fact, the 90LS8535 (equivalent of the 16$877)
> has the equivalent of a 24C04 (512 bytes) of EEPROM built-in.

But you still haven't answered my original assertion which has been cut from
this message: Where can I find equivalent tools for Linux that I already
have for the PIC. When the environment exists for one, and doesn't exist for
the other, minor differences in cost aren't relavent.

As to why Linux, it's my choice. I realize that means that I'm shut out of
a lot of environments, but I can live with that.

Your points are relavent if you are buying several thousand parts. Costs are
the critical issue. But for a hobbiest like myself that's going to one-off
projects, comfort with both the part and the development environment are key.

BTW I use external EEPROMS because I get the ability to program in-circuit
without have to deal with the overhead of building a full-fledged programmer
for the controller in-circuit.

Lastly the 16$877 as you call it has an excellent I2C interface so minimal
library code is necessary for setup and xmission.

You haven't brought anything compelling to the table yet Tjaart. Even at 2.5X
the price ($5.90 for 90LS8535 compared to $14.25 for the 16F877 in single
quantities) there's no compelling reason to switch. I know that the minute
I get the 16F877 parts, I'll have a high level language, assembler, programmer,
and many years of PIC experience backing the part up. With the Atmel part
I have very little to start from. I'll have to build a programmer, get a
new assembler, not have a HLL environment, and I'd have to switch to Windows
to use the software that's available for the part. And trust me that isn't
nearly worth the $8.35 a part in savings or the minor issues of bank switching
which my token environment doesn't have because it does everything via
indirect references.

Microchip has done it's job. It has me pretty much locked in and moving
somewhere else, while not impossible, is extremely difficult. Call it a
guilded cage.

BAJ

'16F877-20/P re-labled ??'
1999\06\08@203511 by Dan Larson

flavicon
face
I got my 16F877's today (its nice living in the same state
as Digikey!) and noticed that the tops appear to have been
"erased" and re-labled.  I say so because I can see faint
remains of PIC16F877-20/P showing through the erased surface
in a different type face than the "new" label.

Any idea why they would do such a thing?  I realize that these are
early production units and potentially subject to correction of
labelling errors or whatever...

The date code is 9916B3P, which puts it somewhere in April.

Dan

'Price on the totally cold 16F877?'
1999\06\09@010710 by Tjaart van der Walt

flavicon
face
Byron A Jeff wrote:
>
> >
> > Where Mchip is hammering on the internal EEPROM as a sales
> > pitch (on some PICs), it is standard on the ATMELs. If you
> > are sick of using precious internal (OTP) ROM for I2C
> > libraries, you can get by much better with the internal EEPROM
> > in the AVR's. In fact, the 90LS8535 (equivalent of the 16$877)
> > has the equivalent of a 24C04 (512 bytes) of EEPROM built-in.
>
> But you still haven't answered my original assertion which has been cut from
> this message: Where can I find equivalent tools for Linux that I already
> have for the PIC. When the environment exists for one, and doesn't exist for
> the other, minor differences in cost aren't relavent.

You are right - I left that for the folks who use
Linux for the development environment.

{Quote hidden}

I've used the '74 and the '77 for a good while with I2C. It
is more schlep to set up and massage the I2C hardware than
what it is to just bit-bang it (for me anyway).

> You haven't brought anything compelling to the table yet Tjaart. Even at 2.5X
> the price ($5.90 for 90LS8535 compared to $14.25 for the 16F877 in single
> quantities) there's no compelling reason to switch. I know that the minute
Do you want it free then? ;)

<snip>

> Microchip has done it's job. It has me pretty much locked in and moving
> somewhere else, while not impossible, is extremely difficult. Call it a
> guilded cage.
Same problem here.

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'PIC 16F877'
1999\06\09@074016 by Stuart O'Reilly

flavicon
face
Can you program the PIC 16F877 using the simmstick platform or does it
run on a different programing voltage?

Regards
Stuart

'16F877-20/P re-labled ??'
1999\06\09@152416 by Michael Shiloh

flavicon
face
>as Digikey!) and noticed that the tops appear to have been
>"erased" and re-labled.  I say so because I can see faint

Maybe in an effort to recycle they are reusing some old cases?



:-)

1999\06\10@194740 by Aaron Martin

flavicon
face
I received two of them today... Since I'm new to PICs, where can I find out
the schematics for this thing?
Can it be programmed like the 16f84?

   -- Aaron

1999\06\10@200025 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> I received two of them today... Since I'm new to PICs, where can I find out
> the schematics for this thing?

In the databook. Microchip has it online at http://www.microchip.com. Choose
PICMicro in the top left navigation bar then choose the PIC16F87X family.
All these parts have the save databook so it doesn't matter which one you
choose.

> Can it be programmed like the 16f84?

The config word is quite a bit different. I think other than that it's
pretty much the same. One other thing, it's possible to build a 5V only
programmer for it because it comes with RB3 set as a programming pin.

You'll also need the programming specificatios on the website.

Hope this helps,

BAJ

'PIC16F877 in UK'
1999\06\12@111013 by Ron Dickinson

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picon face
Checking with Farnell (UK main supplier), they list 873 to 877 but will
not have them in stock until early August.

Ron
--
  /\
  []       Ron Dickinson
  []     <<<<<        >>>>>
  []     Compusolve-Redilec
 /--\    Derbyshire England
 !!!!    +44 01246 - 570281

'Where can I find 16F877 in UK'
1999\06\12@144901 by Les

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picon face
Could anyone please tell me where I can purcase any of the new 16F8XX range
of PIC'S here in the UK ?


       Thanks in advance.
                                       Les

spam_OUTlesSTOPspamspamtop204.freeserve.co.uk

'The PICmicro PIC16F877 and the DT106 SimmStick!'
1999\06\13@031920 by Don McKenzie

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face
The PICmicro PIC16F877 and the DT106 SimmStick!
I have decided to go ahead with the design for a SimmStick, and
hopefully get a product to market within a month or two.

Rather than use up the bandwidth here, I have placed a page at:
http://www.dontronics.com/dt106.html

Comments welcome.

Don McKenzie  RemoveMEdonspamspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

'PIC16F877 has now been programmed in a SimmStick.'
1999\06\13@092711 by Don McKenzie

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face
With reference to my previous message about programming a PIC16F877 in a
SimmStick as detailed at:
http://www.dontronics.com/dt106.html

My friend Peter Averill has just informed me he has achieved this task,
and has just followed up by writing the article in html code, which is
linked from:
http://www.dontronics.com/vicuni.html

We only spoke about it Friday night, when I gave him the boards.

This works as a load/run operation. No moving chips, no ZIF socket, and
it should be easily adaptable to any target board. Yes, any target
board.

So 877-ers, go to it!!!

Don McKenzie  TakeThisOuTdonspamspamRemoveMEdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

'16F877 and Tait Programmers'
1999\06\13@123307 by Sam Powell

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face
Can one program an 877 using a Tait (Maplin) Programmer?


ICQ: 10061444
e-mail : KILLspamsam.powellspamspamspam_OUTcwcom.net
web: http://come.to/thepicarchive

1999\06\13@165518 by Don McKenzie

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face
Sam Powell wrote:
>
> Can one program an 877 using a Tait (Maplin) Programmer?

If you follow the yellow brick road from:
http://www.dontronics.com/vicuni.html
to:
Programming the PIC16F877 on a SimmStick,
you will find out how to use this type of setup on a Maplin programmer.
It uses a David Tait Printer port design, which David taught me all
about in about 1994.

also check out:
http://www.dontronics.com/dt106.html
http://www.dontronics.com/dt001.html
for load/run operation.

Don McKenzie  donRemoveMEspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

'PIC16F877 in UK'
1999\06\14@094549 by Harrison Cooper

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face
My rep/distributor just handed me a couple of 876 parts....forgot I had even
asked about them!

-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Dickinson [EraseMErockitSTOPspamspamRemoveMECOMPSOLV.DEMON.CO.UK]
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 1999 12:28 PM
To: spam_OUTPICLISTRemoveMEspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: PIC16F877 in UK


Checking with Farnell (UK main supplier), they list 873 to 877 but will
not have them in stock until early August.

Ron
--
  /\
  []       Ron Dickinson
  []     <<<<<        >>>>>
  []     Compusolve-Redilec
 /--\    Derbyshire England
 !!!!    +44 01246 - 570281

1999\06\14@123508 by Mo

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face
Harrison
Which disti do you use?
Mo

> My rep/distributor just handed me a couple of 876 parts....forgot I had
even
> asked about them!
>

'LCD test program for PIC16F877 on a SimmStick.'
1999\06\14@205534 by Don McKenzie

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face
I think have found someone who can write applications and html code
faster than I can post them. :-)

LCD test program for PIC16F877 on a SimmStick.
Programming the PIC16F877 on a SimmStick.
http://www.dontronics.com/vicuni.html

Don McKenzie  TakeThisOuTdonRemoveMEspam@spam@dontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

'Digi-Key and the PIC16F877-20/P'
1999\06\15@170703 by Don McKenzie

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face
I just contacted Digi-Key for sales of PIC16F877-20/P Micros.
This is the only 87x part they are showing as in stock.

This is what I was told when I attempted to make a bulk purchase:

>Microchip has been having problems with these chips
>and it is them that will only let us sell 10 to a customer

Pushing further, I couldn't find out any more.
"Having Problems" Does anyone know what that really means?

Don McKenzie  EraseMEdonRemoveMEspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\06\15@175845 by Andy Kunz

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>"Having Problems" Does anyone know what that really means?

... delivering.

I just bought 40 today from FAI, and placed a PO for 500 '876s w/o a problem.

Andy
==================================================================
  Andy Kunz - http://www.montanadesign.com - spamandy.....spamspammontanadesign.com
          Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity
==================================================================

1999\06\15@190521 by Tony Nixon

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picon face
Don McKenzie wrote:

>Microchip has been having problems with these chips
>and it is them that will only let us sell 10 to a customer

>"Having Problems" Does anyone know what that really means?


Probably no-one. Don't forget these chips are a new item and are bound
to have bugs of some form or another.

As I heard at the seminar...

We, the users are the guinea pigs that help sort the problems out with
new devices. That's why there's so many periferals on them. It makes it
easier to debug 1 chip than a whole lot of new ones. No doubt in the
future there will be a few smaller spin offs from this design.


A real bummer, the (ES) chip I got from the seminar refuses to do
anything. Maybe it's just a plastic look-a-like.

--
Best regards

Tony

'The Engine' - Design your own programmer.

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email picnpokespam_OUTspam@spam@cdi.com.au

1999\06\15@221138 by Don McKenzie

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face
Tony Nixon wrote:
>
> Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> >Microchip has been having problems with these chips
> >and it is them that will only let us sell 10 to a customer

snip---

> A real bummer, the (ES) chip I got from the seminar refuses to do
> anything. Maybe it's just a plastic look-a-like.

The one we programmed came from the same (ES) batch I'm sure.
See pic at:
http://www.labyrinth.net.au/~donmck/vicuni/16f877.html

> Best regards
> Tony
> 'The Engine' - Design your own programmer.
> http://www.picnpoke.com
> Email .....picnpokespamspam.....cdi.com.au

Don McKenzie  donKILLspamspamEraseMEdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

'Digi-Key and PIC16F877-20/P'
1999\06\16@045740 by Alexey Vladimirov

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face
16 Jun 99, Don McKenzie writes to All:

P> I just contacted Digi-Key for sales of PIC16F877-20/P Micros.

P> This is what I was told when I attempted to make a bulk purchase:

>> Microchip has been having problems with these chips
>> and it is them that will only let us sell 10 to a customer

P> Pushing further, I couldn't find out any more.
P> "Having Problems" Does anyone know what that really means?

Looks like Digi-Key try to restrict international orders for Microchip
products. When I try to order 4 pcs PIC16F877-20/P and some PIC16C73A, I get
the following response from Digi-Key international sales:

=== Cut ===

>>Due to current regulations we are unable to ship the PIC16C73A-20I/SO-ND
>>and PIC16F877-20/P-ND to your country at this time.  Please let me know
>>if you have substitutes for these or if you would like me to cancel
>>them.

=== Cut ===

I have been ordered Microchip parts from Digi-Key many times for some urgent
needs - no problem till this time. Anybody have some ideas, what this
"regulations" really means ?

Alexey

Check Microchip Net Resources, more than 700 links now...
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/5807

'PIC16F877-20/P [MIGUEL]'
1999\06\16@112853 by - KITS EDUCACIONAIS NACIONAIS

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Does this IC have EEPROM PROGRAM or EPROM?

       Miguel

1999\06\16@120125 by Andy Kunz

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At 12:21 PM 6/16/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Does this IC have EEPROM PROGRAM or EPROM?

Flash EPROM area, internal EEPROM (256)

Otherwise it's very similar to a '77 (note that pin RB.3 is "strange" now -
see the PDF).

Andy
==================================================================
  Andy Kunz - http://www.montanadesign.com - EraseMEandy@spam@spam@spam@montanadesign.com
          Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity
==================================================================

1999\06\16@122205 by - KITS EDUCACIONAIS NACIONAIS

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Andy Kunz wrote:
>
> At 12:21 PM 6/16/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Does this IC have EEPROM PROGRAM or EPROM?
>
> Flash EPROM area, internal EEPROM (256)
>
> Otherwise it's very similar to a '77 (note that pin RB.3 is "strange" now -
> see the PDF).
>
> Andy
> ==================================================================
>    Andy Kunz - http://www.montanadesign.com - @spam@andyspamspamKILLspammontanadesign.com
>            Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity
> ==================================================================

May i  erase it and program electrically? Or only program it?

Miguel

1999\06\16@125858 by Andy Kunz

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>May i  erase it and program electrically? Or only program it?

Rewritable, no need for UV.

Have you downloaded the data sheet off their website yet?

RB.3 can be used for 5V-only programming.  No need for 13V!!!

Andy
==================================================================
  Andy Kunz - http://www.montanadesign.com - spamBeGoneandyRemoveMEspamEraseMEmontanadesign.com
          Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity
==================================================================

'16F877 and bootstrapping thru' serial port'
1999\06\16@195510 by Jim Main

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face
Although the 16F877 can be programmed at low voltages in circuit, one of the
annoying things is that you lose PB3.

I seem to remember that one of the motorola chips (6811?) could be bought
with a bootstrap program burnt in, so that you could program it through the
serial port without a programmer.

Now that we have programmatical programming on the pic, it would seem like
that'd be a good idea.

How about it mchip?

What about a competition for the smallest bootstrap code (<256 bytes)....

JM
---

1999\06\17@083415 by Andy Kunz

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face
>Although the 16F877 can be programmed at low voltages in circuit, one of the
>annoying things is that you lose PB3.

Microchip ALMOST let us do this ourselves.  Only problem is, they got the
code protection in the way.  That is, if you code protect your '8xx, it
CANNOT be programmed by the internal code you might write.  If you let the
world see your code, you can do whatever you want with it.

Well, duh.  I think somebody Dilberted us in Arizona.

If I had my way, the code protection mechanism would be primarily for
outside users.  Let the program do whatever it wants (well, maybe you
_should_ have a "disable internal writes" config bit just in case).  But
don't lock the programmer out of his own chip!!!

{Quote hidden}

==================================================================
  Andy Kunz - http://www.montanadesign.com - RemoveMEandyKILLspamspamRemoveMEmontanadesign.com
          Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity
==================================================================

1999\06\17@192628 by Dennis Plunkett

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face
At 08:22 17/06/99 -0400, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

HC11 with the bootloader programme burnt in? Well yes and no. The
bootloader let the user programme 256 sequential bytes into the RAM area.
These 256 bytes must contain the actual boot loader to put your data where
you want i.e. Motorola just supplied a method to get the first 256 bytes
in. Of course if your programme could fit into this area then there was no
other need. And also if you had no on board programmability options FLASH
EEPROM etc. then the data was normally written into RAM, and the entire
process would have to be repeated when power was lost.


Hey Andy,
Has you local weed supply been confiscated by the FBI? :)

Dennis

1999\06\17@193504 by ryan pogge

picon face
> Hey Andy,
> Has you local weed supply been confiscated by the FBI? :)

jeez i hope not!

1999\06\17@194121 by ryan pogge

picon face
The questionable projects ive seen
on this list and the parallax list.

1) automatic plant watering system ...hmmmm
2) soil moisture meters with alarms... .
3) light timers....
4) digital postal scale... yea sure its for letters....
5)and my favorite... a remote controlled lighter,
yea for those hard-to-light-yourself 6 foot bongs.



> Hey Andy,
> Has you local weed supply been confiscated by the FBI? :)
>
> Dennis
>

1999\06\17@195155 by William Chops Westfield

face picon face
I think the 68HC705 microcontrollers use async serial motarola "S" records on
the internal uart for programming the eprom (and you still need a
"programmer" to arrange things so that the internal bootstrap runs this
code rather than trying to run the eprom.)

BillW

1999\06\17@200039 by Dennis Plunkett

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face
At 16:51 17/06/99 PDT, you wrote:
>I think the 68HC705 microcontrollers use async serial motarola "S" records on
>the internal uart for programming the eprom (and you still need a
>"programmer" to arrange things so that the internal bootstrap runs this
>code rather than trying to run the eprom.)
>
>BillW
>
>

No, the 68HC705C4/8/9 etc. Use the ports as address and data. If you have a
look at the programmer in the 05 book, out will see that the data comes
from an EPROM that is wired directly to the chip. Taking the reset line to
VPgm puts the chip into the bootstap mode that will cause it to do things
like load pprogramme verify etc.

Dennis

1999\06\17@212432 by Antonio L Benci

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picon face
A point of clarification...

The 68HC705C4/C8 devices can be serially bootstrapped programmed. The
programmer shown in the 05 book (VOL2, page 3-1186, 03/88, DL139) also
shows a rudimentary serial port interface. Serial bootstrap programming
is a two step process...

First you load a program into ram and execute (MODE 2) then this program
reads data via the serial port and in turn programs the internal EPROM.
A WWW search will come up with bootstrap loaders for the C4 and C8
devices...

The 68HC805C4 (EEPROM based) is really good for this type of
application...

I have used both devices extensively and have have implemented the
serial bootstrap programming method. I used a program called PROG07
which I obtained from the local Motorola vendor (Veltek here in
Melbourne) a while ago...

Dennis Plunkett wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Nino..
--
******************************************************
* Antonio (Nino) Benci                               *
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* Monash University - Dept of Physics                *
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1999\06\17@214111 by Dennis Plunkett

flavicon
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At 11:20 18/06/99 +1000, you wrote:
>A point of clarification...
>
>The 68HC705C4/C8 devices can be serially bootstrapped programmed. The
>programmer shown in the 05 book (VOL2, page 3-1186, 03/88, DL139) also
>shows a rudimentary serial port interface. Serial bootstrap programming
>is a two step process...
>
>First you load a program into ram and execute (MODE 2) then this program
>reads data via the serial port and in turn programs the internal EPROM.
>A WWW search will come up with bootstrap loaders for the C4 and C8
>devices...



Humm, what about the 240 byte bootloader in the upper memory area? Ok so
this is for // port data loading direct from and EPROM. The serial one that
is downloaded by the user will alow the user to programme simmilar to the
HC11 format. Again this forces the user to use a standard XTAL, and in some
cases this is not always possible. Motorala seem to hide this from
potential users as the shortform books realy don't cover the serial
bootloading ability, and just supply a no brainer circuit for programming
in the // format.

Dennis



>
>The 68HC805C4 (EEPROM based) is really good for this type of
>application...
>

This device has no EEPROM, only EPROM and RAM


>I have used both devices extensively and have have implemented the
>serial bootstrap programming method. I used a program called PROG07
>which I obtained from the local Motorola vendor (Veltek here in
>Melbourne) a while ago...
>
>Dennis Plunkett wrote:
>>
>> At 16:51 17/06/99 PDT, you wrote:
>> >I think the 68HC705 microcontrollers use async serial motarola "S"
records on
{Quote hidden}

1999\06\17@214324 by Antonio L Benci

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picon face
Just found this and further to my original reply...

The PROG07 program can be found at:

       http://www.mot.com/pub/SPS/MCU/m68hc05-08/PGMR/

I hope this helps...

Antonio L Benci wrote:
{Quote hidden}

[stuff deleted]

Nino.
--
******************************************************
* Antonio (Nino) Benci                               *
* Professional Officer / Electronic Services Manager *
* Monash University - Dept of Physics                *
* Wellington Rd, Clayton. 3168                       *
* Victoria, Australia.                               *
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1999\06\17@220129 by Antonio L Benci

flavicon
picon face
In response.

Dennis Plunkett wrote:
>
> At 11:20 18/06/99 +1000, you wrote:
> >A point of clarification...
> >
> >The 68HC705C4/C8 devices can be serially bootstrapped programmed. The
> >programmer shown in the 05 book (VOL2, page 3-1186, 03/88, DL139) also
> >shows a rudimentary serial port interface. Serial bootstrap programming
> >is a two step process...
> >
> >First you load a program into ram and execute (MODE 2) then this program
> >reads data via the serial port and in turn programs the internal EPROM.
> >A WWW search will come up with bootstrap loaders for the C4 and C8
> >devices...
>
> Humm, what about the 240 byte bootloader in the upper memory area? Ok so
> this is for // port data loading direct from and EPROM. The serial one that
> is downloaded by the user will alow the user to programme simmilar to the
> HC11 format. Again this forces the user to use a standard XTAL, and in some

Is it really a problem if the user is required to use a STANDARD
crystal. Why not just first program the device with your code then
replace the crystal if required. Yes it is messy but if it has to be
done and no other solution is available then so be it...

> cases this is not always possible. Motorala seem to hide this from
> potential users as the shortform books realy don't cover the serial
> bootloading ability, and just supply a no brainer circuit for programming
> in the // format.

Yes I agree, this is a shortcoming of the design and notes provided...

>
> Dennis
>
> >
> >The 68HC805C4 (EEPROM based) is really good for this type of
> >application...
> >
>
> This device has no EEPROM, only EPROM and RAM

Page 3-1260, (VOL2, 03/88, DL139). 4156 bytes of ON-CHIP EEPROM. Yes I
have used this device and yes it is EEPROM...

>
> >I have used both devices extensively and have have implemented the
> >serial bootstrap programming method. I used a program called PROG07
> >which I obtained from the local Motorola vendor (Veltek here in
> >Melbourne) a while ago...

[stuff deleted]

Nino.
--
******************************************************
* Antonio (Nino) Benci                               *
* Professional Officer / Electronic Services Manager *
* Monash University - Dept of Physics                *
* Wellington Rd, Clayton. 3168                       *
* Victoria, Australia.                               *
* TEL    - 61 3 9905 3649, FAX - 61 3 9905 3637      *
* Mobile - 0414 764 763 (private and ah only)        *
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* WWW    - http://www.physics.monash.edu.au/                *
******************************************************

1999\06\17@223523 by Dennis Plunkett

flavicon
face
At 11:59 18/06/99 +1000, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Oh dear, I see that you have gone from 68HC705xx to 68HC805xx opps my
mistake as I have been wondering why have I been throwing away all those
OTP 68HC705C8 and C4s OTPs


Dennis

1999\06\18@091625 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>HC11 with the bootloader programme burnt in? Well yes and no. The

68705P3-something-something had one built in.  Secure code, but still
required VPP to burn it.  Worked nicely.  Worked on a cable TV converter
that used it.

>Hey Andy,
>Has you local weed supply been confiscated by the FBI? :)

Why would the FBI mow my yard?  I got a teenager to do that for them.

Andy

==================================================================
  Andy Kunz - http://www.montanadesign.com - KILLspamandyspam_OUTspammontanadesign.com
          Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity
==================================================================

1999\06\18@131244 by Craig Lee

flavicon
face
So what is the concensus?  Is it possible to program a bootloader
into the 16F877, and do remote code modifications with serial commands?


{Quote hidden}

I here I was thinking you WERE a teenager!  (snicker, snicker)

1999\06\18@131704 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>So what is the concensus?  Is it possible to program a bootloader
>into the 16F877, and do remote code modifications with serial commands?

Yes, I've done it.  You just can't code-protect it.

>I here I was thinking you WERE a teenager!  (snicker, snicker)

Not for the past 15.5 years, any way.

Andy

==================================================================
  Andy Kunz - http://www.montanadesign.com - .....andy.....spamRemoveMEmontanadesign.com
          Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity
==================================================================

1999\06\18@171400 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
On the plant waterer, some of us need a reminder or our plants die.
(I can grow catnip or Aloe Vera - as both are really HARDY - other
succulents too - and don't (always) kill those, from underwatering.
Most anything else, dies a dry death.  I'm just spoiled - too used to
cats & dogs, where if I mess up & their water dish gets empty, I *HEAR*
about it, and/or am led to the offending "Broken" water dish o'plenty.

 Few plants bother to meow at me, or bother to lead me to their empty
water dish.  Much less drop their empty food dish repeatedly, until they
have my attention (In bad cases, on my foot, or on my head if I'm
asleep!), as Zeuss does...

 Some of us need light timers, or (as life's pretty busy!) we end up
erasing that 16C622 for about 3-4 DAYS...  (Managed >24 hours once,
still works <G>)  I just gave up & bought a mechanical to get it DONE
with, TOO busy!

 My cats would love to confiscate all my catnip, if only it'd GROW!
(Something wrong with the soil here as everything BUT catnip grows in
the yard?)

 Mark, who has 2 NON-green thumbs.

ryan pogge wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'16F877: PP : DT's Programmer'
1999\06\19@092250 by Sam Powell

flavicon
face
Simple question, which keeps getting saked and not answered, so someone who
knows, please....

Can one program a 16F877 with a Tait style programmer, (hence a Maplin PIC
F84 programmer - which is along the lines of his "topic" programmer). What
modifications would need to be made to PP, and would anyone around here be
willing to make those changes etc...

If it just cant be done, what other sub-#35 programmers would do the job (if
any?)?

Thanks.

           Sam Powell

ICQ: 10061444
e-mail : spam_OUTsam.powellTakeThisOuTspamEraseMEcwcom.net
web: http://come.to/thepicarchive

1999\06\19@093742 by Tony N

picon face
<x-flowed>>Simple question, which keeps getting saked and not answered, so someone who
>knows, please....
>
>Can one program a 16F877 with a Tait style programmer, (hence a Maplin PIC
>F84 programmer - which is along the lines of his "topic" programmer). What
>modifications would need to be made to PP, and would anyone around here be
>willing to make those changes etc...

I once asked Tait, and he agreed it should work except only the first 1K,
and there a few fuses which are a little different. However, I built the
40pin version of the device at
www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/9620/
...tested it with a 16F877 and it works fine. As for an 18 pin device like
the 'F84, I notice the cct is almost the same. A simple adaptor should do
it.

By the way, anybody have some sample SPI code (Master mode to external
"slave" SPI device)?

Tony Nichols
EraseMEtonynichspamBeGonespamKILLspamhotmail.com


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

</x-flowed>

1999\06\19@195349 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Sam Powell wrote:
>
> Simple question, which keeps getting saked and not answered, so someone who
> knows, please....
>
> Can one program a 16F877 with a Tait style programmer, (hence a Maplin PIC
> F84 programmer - which is along the lines of his "topic" programmer). What
> modifications would need to be made to PP, and would anyone around here be
> willing to make those changes etc...
>
> If it just cant be done, what other sub-#35 programmers would do the job (if
> any?)?

yep, have a look at:
http://www.dontronics.com/p16pro.html
http://www.dontronics.com/dt106.html

As Tony says, you will still need the adapter,
but then, if you had a SimmStick.......

Don McKenzie  RemoveMEdonspamBeGonespamspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

'Programming the 16F877'
1999\06\19@213542 by Howard McGinnis

flavicon
face
I just got my '877 and went to program one in the Pic Start Plus - MPLAB
says I need 1.50.02 or later firmware. OK - I have my upgrade 17C44, but
it's only 1.50. Microchip web site has 1.50 dated 4/99. So - not having my
ICD (yet), exactly what am I supposed to use?


Howard McGinnis
@spam@hmcginnispamspamdigital.net
Electronic Visions, Inc.
1650 Barrett Drive
Rockledge FL 32955
(407) 632-7530
http://ddi.digital.net/~hmcginni
TakeThisOuTmcginnisKILLspamspam@spam@e-visions.com

1999\06\19@213956 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Get another 17C44/JW (or a pair, better yet), erase and reprogram one
with the 2.0+ firmware, you'll be set.

 Mark

Howard McGinnis wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'16F877: PP : DT's Programmer'
1999\06\20@212932 by ronruss

flavicon
face
I tried the PP software and it seemed to work but the
chip would stop working when I touched it. The problem
is the config register needed to be modified.

I've posted a link to a preliminary update at;

http://www.picwiser.com/


Sam Powell wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--

From: Ron Russ
  EMICROS  - Embedded Micro Software
 (http://www.emicros.com)
  CANPORT  - Lowest cost PC to Controller Area Network Adapter
 (http://www.emicros.com/canport.htm)
  CANTEC11 - 68HC11 SBC with Controller Area Network
 (http://www.emicros.com/cantec11.htm)

'PIC 16F877 Background Debugger Mode'
1999\06\21@111714 by Craig Bladow

picon face
Can anyone explain how this is implemented?  I haven't found an
explanation in Microchip's documentation except where the bit is set in
the configuration word to enable this mode.

I would guess that a breakpoint register is loaded in a similar manner
as programming is done but what is the command and what address is
jumped to when the breakpoint is hit?

Craig Bladow


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

1999\06\21@113154 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>I would guess that a breakpoint register is loaded in a similar manner
>as programming is done but what is the command and what address is
>jumped to when the breakpoint is hit?

You need to ask for the DOS for the chip.

Andy
==================================================================
  Andy Kunz - http://www.montanadesign.com - RemoveMEandyspamspamSTOPspammontanadesign.com
          Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity
==================================================================

1999\06\21@144013 by Howard McGinnis

flavicon
face
At 08:16 AM 6/21/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Can anyone explain how this is implemented?  I haven't found an
>explanation in Microchip's documentation except where the bit is set in
>the configuration word to enable this mode.

The 877 manual touches it briefly in 12.14 In-Circuit Debugger. At the
seminar, and confirmed by the manual, a portion of memory from 1f00 to 1fff
is reserved for the breakpoint handler and interface to the ICD components.

I couldn't find any references to how the address for the breakpoint is
set, but there sure seems to be a lot of unused and reserved registers....

Howard
Howard McGinnis
.....hmcginniEraseMEspamdigital.net
Electronic Visions, Inc.
1650 Barrett Drive
Rockledge FL 32955
(407) 632-7530
http://ddi.digital.net/~hmcginni
spamBeGonemcginnisspamRemoveMEe-visions.com

'PIC16F877 Programming Software Updates'
1999\06\22@164719 by ronruss

flavicon
face
The parallel port programming software updates for the
PIC16F877 has been updated to Version 1.2 and
is available at:

http://www.picwiser.com

The next update (1.3) should have the 'rest' of it.

--

From: Ron Russ
  EMICROS  - Embedded Micro Software
 (http://www.emicros.com)
  CANPORT  - Lowest cost PC to Controller Area Network Adapter
 (http://www.emicros.com/canport.htm)
  CANTEC11 - 68HC11 SBC with Controller Area Network
 (http://www.emicros.com/cantec11.htm)

'16F877 Evaluation Boards'
1999\06\28@131729 by Ed Edmondson

picon face
Just looking for some input from the group here?  I am looking at designing a
training / evaluation board for the new 877 series processors.  Anyone have
any suggestions on what might be included on the board to enhance its'
usefulness.  I was putting an RS-232 I/F, an LCD display (20 characters by 2
or 4 lines), LDO regulator, Fuse, Expansion connectors, ICD port, and RTC.

Any comments, suggestions, interest in this board?  If these is enough
interest I will have enough made to sell (at cost) to anyone interested.

Regards,
Ed

1999\06\28@140658 by eplus1

flavicon
face
DISCLAIMER: The following is based on idle thought and may very well be
completely screwy...

Crazy idea but....

I've been thinking for a long time that a great differentiator for a
training/demo board would be the inclusion of an FPGA and some standard
routines etc.. necessary to program it from the PIC. It would allow the
board to be used for almost anything without additional hardware. One
standard .inc could configure the FPGA as a serial to parallel or parallel
to serial converter to greatly increase the available IO and do so in
intelligent ways (UART, PIO, FIO, FIFO, buffer, and maybe even network
protocols like CAN or TCP/IP down the road). Counters and timers could be
made as wide as necessary by another. You can scale your RTC with it. The
use of a serial PROM to hold the initial programming for the FPGA could
allow it to "boot up" in a mode that makes it the programmer for the pic
from a serial or parallel port. VGA or video out with a resistor or two with
the timing and memory in the FPGA. http://www.xess.com has this and I think
it makes them absolutely unique. Unfortunately, they are very, very short on
examples.

The point is not to hype the board as a FGPA experimenter kit (because most
are afraid of FPGAs and don't have the tools etc...) but instead to use it
as a way of listing a great huge list of "support hardware" that comes with
your board and to keep adding to that list as you write new .include files
without changing the PCB. Scenix is making great strides with their "Virtual
Peripheral" idea. This would be an "Actual Peripheral" (after virtual
reality comes actual reality, "you feel the wheel vibrate in you hands
because... your actually holding it...") <G>

You would need to make sure that you select an FPGA that allows for the
outputs to tri-state based on an input since that is one of the big
advantages of having programmatic control of the IO pins or make sure that
it can be programmed via I2C so that only 2 PIC pins are used.

If you make it for $100 or less I will buy it... no... no... on second
thought, you would have to use an SX chip... I can't deal with debugging
PICs.

James Newton, webmaster http://get.to/techref
.....jamesnewtonEraseMEspamgeocities.com <spamjamesnewtonspam_OUTspam@spam@geocities.com>
1-619-652-0593 phone



> {Original Message removed}

1999\06\28@161714 by l.allen

picon face
>
> If you make it for $100 or less I will buy it... no... no... on
> second thought, you would have to use an SX chip... I can't deal
> with debugging PICs.
>

Am I the only one or are there other people out there that are sick of
anti-PIC put downs on this PICLIST? Basically Im feed up with the
smart arse comments from those reviling the PIC... get a life guys and
a different LIST !

Lance

1999\06\28@170258 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Ed Edmondson wrote:
>
> Just looking for some input from the group here?  I am looking at designing a
> training / evaluation board for the new 877 series processors.  Anyone have
> any suggestions on what might be included on the board to enhance its'
> usefulness.  I was putting an RS-232 I/F, an LCD display (20 characters by 2
> or 4 lines), LDO regulator, Fuse, Expansion connectors, ICD port, and RTC.
> Any comments, suggestions, interest in this board?  If these is enough
> interest I will have enough made to sell (at cost) to anyone interested.

There is something similar to this at:
http://www.dontronics.com/dt106.html

Don McKenzie  spamdon@spam@spamSTOPspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\06\28@180459 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
Hi Lance,

Well, I agree that the PICLIST is not the place to make purely disparaging
remarks about PICs, BUT, I don't have anything against someone saying that
they prefer a particular micro for a particular application.

Sean

At 08:15 AM 6/29/99 +1200, you wrote:
>Am I the only one or are there other people out there that are sick of
>anti-PIC put downs on this PICLIST? Basically Im feed up with the
>smart arse comments from those reviling the PIC... get a life guys and
>a different LIST !
>
>Lance
>
|
| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
| Electrical Engineering Student
\--------------=----------------
Save lives, please look at http://www.all.org
Personal page: http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7
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1999\06\28@183618 by Larry Fostano

picon face
So what do you project the cost to be,I AM INTERESTED AS A FIRST TIMER.

1999\06\29@001807 by Tjaart van der Walt

flavicon
face
Lance Allen wrote:
>
> >
> > If you make it for $100 or less I will buy it... no... no... on
> > second thought, you would have to use an SX chip... I can't deal
> > with debugging PICs.
> >
>
> Am I the only one or are there other people out there that are sick of
> anti-PIC put downs on this PICLIST? Basically Im feed up with the
> smart arse comments from those reviling the PIC... get a life guys and
> a different LIST !

I'll bite.

You are probably not. It does not mean you are right (or wrong).
Mchip has the mid-end market by the short&curlies because of
unrealistic and blind brand-loyalty bordering on religion by some.

Mchip is screwing us over with their prices. You can say what
you like, but that burny feeling up your ass is the *fact*
that you are paying double for Mchip than for better AVR parts.
Instead of spin doctors and lawyers, Mchip should employ more
engineers.

Only by investigating other avenues, will this shitty attitude
change. I really like PICs, but they are not the only ducks in
the pond. If an engineer has a teary-eyed devotion to a particular
brand, he'd either be on your way to another career, or not be
doing his job.

--
Friendly Regards           /"\
                          \ /
Tjaart van der Walt         X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
RemoveMEtjaartRemoveMEspamRemoveMEcellpt.co.za / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL
|--------------------------------------------------|
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|    http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html      |
| WGS84 -26.0124 +28.1129  Voice +27 (0)11 2545100 |
|--------------------------------------------------|

1999\06\29@020036 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
Yeah, you tell 'em, Tjaart! Microchip is working their way into a niche
market. There are lots of people who support that niche, but some are
beginning to feel an itch. There are too many other players in this market
now for Microchip to sit on their laurels.

On the other hand, I am waiting for the dust to settle before I decide to
switch horses. Luckily the end product is expensive enough that the extra
price for a PIC is not significant in the things I design. But an extra
dollar(or several) will eventually make me switch. I can imagine how it is
for people designing low margin products with lots of competition.

Cheers,
Bob

{Quote hidden}

1999\06\29@030837 by Graeme Smith

flavicon
face
Hm... How about an IR interface.... IRDA?? so those with IR output on
their laptops can talk to it, via lightwaves??

                               Grey

GRAEME SMITH                         email: grysmithKILLspamspamspamfreenet.edmonton.ab.ca
YMCA Edmonton

Address has changed with little warning!
(I moved across the hall! :) )

Email will remain constant... at least for now.

1999\06\29@032927 by Tjaart van der Walt

flavicon
face
Bob Blick wrote:
>
> Yeah, you tell 'em, Tjaart! Microchip is working their way into a niche
> market. There are lots of people who support that niche, but some are
> beginning to feel an itch. There are too many other players in this market
> now for Microchip to sit on their laurels.
>
> On the other hand, I am waiting for the dust to settle before I decide to
> switch horses. Luckily the end product is expensive enough that the extra
> price for a PIC is not significant in the things I design. But an extra
> dollar(or several) will eventually make me switch. I can imagine how it is
> for people designing low margin products with lots of competition.

I was gunning for a high-volume application on the Scenix using
a command parser, but it turned out that the external RAM would
have made it unfeasable. It was a real let-down, but maybe next
time.... We are currently bidding for two projects that can run
our products into 100k's per year, so a dollar here and there becomes
a fortune everywhere.

--
Friendly Regards           /"\
                          \ /
Tjaart van der Walt         X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
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|--------------------------------------------------|
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|--------------------------------------------------|

1999\06\29@095523 by jamesp

picon face
Graeme,

Excellent idea.  My hats off to you for the suggestion.  Let's
hope this can become a reality.

                                        Regards,

                                          Jim



{Quote hidden}

1999\06\29@125217 by Bob Drzyzgula

flavicon
face
On Mon, Jun 28, 1999 at 01:15:05PM -0400, Ed Edmondson wrote:
>
> Any comments, suggestions, interest in this board?  If these is enough
> interest I will have enough made to sell (at cost) to anyone interested.

* Room around the PIC site to accomodate an Aries
ZIF socket, and a parallel port programming circuit,
sort of like the Micro Engineering Labs EPIC or the
Parallax/TechTools programmer?  Perhaps the board
could be designed so that it could be used as an extra
general-purpose PIC programming board to have around,
once one is past the eval stage.

* Sockets and/or sites for a external parallel-to-serial
and serial-to-parallel latchs (both hooked on the serial
side to the PIC with 2x8 connection header on the opposite
side), I2C EEPROM, LM34/35.

* Circuit to convert a thermistor value to an analog input
on the PIC, so you can just plug the thermistor into, say,
a screw-down header.

* Site for a general-purpose instrumentation amplifier
(e.g. AD627) and associated gain-setting resistors.

FWIW.

--Bob

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
KILLspambob.....spamTakeThisOuTdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

1999\06\29@181856 by Dennis Plunkett

flavicon
face
At 06:11 29/06/99 +0200, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Big bite there Tjaart,
Nice triangular style to the writting there too.
Now it is my turn to byte.
I was quite OK until the last paragraph, Who's attitude is needed to be
changed?
Ducks int the pond, humm in Austrialia that meens women in the sheering shed!

As for the particular brand issue, have you tryed to change some engineers
from Motorola to other brands? Yes I know all the arguments, but often it
is time to market that is the issue, and the time to learn a new processor
costs. OK so I know that you will argue that it only takes a week to get
onto a new processor and arounf 3weeks to learn most of the tricks. That
can cause trouble in that you will often over specify the processor
required and thus increase the cost.

Anyway Tjaart are ypu going to provide a shelter for all the out of work
engineers that would be out of work if they got stuck with your bite?
Perhpas something the size of Australia will do??? :)

Bitting stopped

Dennis


{Quote hidden}

1999\06\30@124306 by Bob Drzyzgula

flavicon
face
On Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 06:12:29AM +0200, Tjaart van der Walt wrote:
>
> The attitude in Arizona that they are above competition. Fact
> is, it is partly true because of a lazy attitude on the part
> of us engineers (I include myself).
> ...
> I know it is nearly impossible to get an engineer to look further than
> his desk (I've been trying on the PIClist for months now).

Tjaart,

I write this with some trepidation, for fear of fueling
yet another flamefest. However, I am more concerned that
the flamefests will continue even without my fuel. So I'll
try here to make some sense.

First, it seems to me as if many if not most of the
professional EEs on this list (at least the ones who post)
actually *do* work with more than just PICs, and that they
*do* take cost into account. In response to my question
about the Philips chip yesterday, for example, I got one
response from someone who said that they evaluated it,
liked it, and planned on using it for projects that needed
more memory, but that they would continue to use Atmel
for memory requirements of 8KB and below because it was
cheaper. I think that this sort of frugality is actually
quite common among this audience (all you spendthrifts
out there are welcome to identify yourselves now...).

I would assume that you are taking the high price of
the PICs as evidence that cross-architecture competition
isn't taking place, and that people are being blind to
alternatives. I am not sure that this is an obviously
valid conclusion. All it means is that the demand for
PICs is sufficient to support the prices charged by
Microchip. There are many possible sources that might
contribute to this demand, blind brand loyalty being only
one. There are several others that I can think of:

* Microchip's iron grip on its architecture. Clearly
Scenix is making inroads there, but they are of course
having to be quite careful, and come no where near
matching Microchip's range of devices. This means that if
someone has a PIC-based design, they face a substantial
effort in porting that design to another architecture.
Using portable C code is of course a good way to moderate
this problem, but a lot of people out there just use MPASM
or some other non-portable language, and differences among
built-in peripherals still have to be dealt with. It seems
not to be a coincidence that most of the less-expensive
product options use the 8051 architecture, for within
the 8051 architecture cross-vendor competition is fierce.
Motorola, Hitachi, National, ST and others have a similar
hold on their architectures, and I rarely see those
mentioned as low-price alternatives.

* As we've discussed before, the PIC architecture is
exceedingly beginner-friendly. The documentation is
accessible, programmers are cheap, and introductory books
are plentiful. MPLAB is a pretty darned cool thing to give
away, and the fact that it includes a simulator means that
people can actually get a bunch of exposure to PICs without
spending a dime. PICs are generally available in small,
easy to use DIP packages and require an absolute minimum
of support circuitry to get started. They are available in
small quantities from a variety of sources.  PIC-centric
websites abound, and PIC enthusiasts are famously helpful
and tolerant of beginners.  About the only thing more
beginner-friendly than a PIC is a Basic Stamp, but those
are a dead end for most commercial work. Even then, PICs
are the obvious next step from a Basic Stamp, if for no
other reason than the availability of BS-compatible BASIC
implementations for the PIC.  The fact that PICs are so
beginner-friendly, I would think, is a strong contributer
to the number of designs that start out on a PIC and
would be difficult to move to another architecture. See
previous item.

* There are undoubtedly a number of designs which use MCUs
where the small difference in price is not a factor that
outweighs the cost of retraining or re-tooling.  While this
might be the minority of applications, I have trouble
believing that, when selecting parts for the display
panel in a $500,000 piece of industrial equipment, that
the design staff's familiarity with the device wouldn't
override a moderate price difference.  And as to why the
staff would be more familiar with a PIC, see previous item.

* This list. It is actually kind of scary, to me at least,
to think about venturing out into an architecture that
doesn't come with such a tremendous support structure.

Microchip, I believe, understands the symbiosis among
the factors I've listed above, and actively encourages
and fosters the front-end accessibility of their parts and
tools because they know that they are leading the newbies
into an embrace that will be difficult to leave.

Tjaart, if you want to get people to abandon PICs in order
to drive their price down (and people abandoning PICs is
probably the main thing that will result in lower prices
for PICs, short of another vendor being able to expand the
market for PIC clones -- and they will need to be usable
with the same development tools and drop into the same
sockets, to the point that people would never have had a
question about a 16C877 eval board supporting a competitive
PIC clone), then you have to give them a real alternative
that addresses all or at least most of the reasons why
people use PICs.

One of the things that you have little control over,
however, is the vendor behind the chips that you propose as
an alternative. Last year, Microchip sponsored the Circuit
Cellar design contest, and a whole bunch of really cool
designs got published as a result. This year, Motorola
sponsored the contest for their hot new flash-based
HC908. This was a nice try, but then people couldn't
buy the chips. The number of places one could get them
in onsies and twosies was limited in the first place,
but the supply was constrained on top of that. I guess
the problems got resolved to some extent, and people got
some chips to work with, but it still didn't do anything
to improve MOT's image.

Yes, Scenix has some good compatibility and good
accessibility, but they don't have the broad peripheral
selection.  There are of course a number of 8051 parts
out there, with a staggering selection of peripherals and
memory options. But I don't see the vendors aggressively
wooing the newbies in the way that Microchip does. In
addition, relatively few of them come in small, easy-to-use
packages.  Many of the newer designs are starting to
ship only in QFP or TQFP, and maybe PLCC. 40-pin DIP
is available only for a limited selection of chips,
and smaller DIPs are even more rare. The surface-mount
packages are of course much more appropriate when doing
high-volume designs, but they are hell for a beginner.
Philips' P87LPC764 is a refreshing change in a 20-pin
DIP. But AFAIK, they are only available in OTP, which is
a real drag if you don't have an emulator, even if they
do only cost $1.50 each in volume.

Another thing you might be able to do is to start
an 8051-general mailing list, that isn't tied to any
particular 8051 vendor, and isn't moderated.  Then actively
try to recruit PICLIST members, and members of existing
8051 mailing lists, to subscribe and participate. If
approached the right way, it seems as if it could
be possible to duplicate the success of PICLIST for
something as widely used as the 8051 architecture. Other
possible ways to improve the support structure for the
8051 architecture is to build an extensive 8051-advocacy
website to go with the mailing list. Lists of "ways to
get started", PCB designs for programmers and training
boards, mailing list archives, reviews of design tools,
directories and cross-references of 8051 chips etc.,
would all be helpful on such a site.

One last thing you could possibly do, Tjaart, is to
go out and buy and read a few books by Dale Carnegie.
Mr. Cargegie's advice is timeless and widely applicable,
and I recommend it highly.

My apologies for any errors in the above, or if I have
offended anyone. But I really believe that PIC-bashing
will result in very little change in the prices of PICs,
and that positive, non-judgemental advocacy and support
of an alternative architecture is probably the best way
to attack Microchip's prices. I believe that you are a
real treasure to be contributing to PICLIST, Tjaart,
and I want to say thank you for all I have learned from
your posts. But I do wish you would find a new approach
to your campaign against the high prices of PICs.

Best regards,

--Bob

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
spam_OUTbobRemoveMEspam.....drzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================

'(uC wars Was : 16F877 Evaluation Boards)'
1999\06\30@190304 by Eric Oliver

flavicon
face
> I write this with some trepidation, for fear of fueling
> yet another flamefest. However, I am more concerned that
> the flamefests will continue even without my fuel. So I'll
> try here to make some sense.
>

<the rest clipped for brevity>

While Tjaart's posts don't bother me in the least, I can undetstand others
objections. I was once on a forum on CIS. Topic : CA Visual Objects ( the
supposed Windows replacement for Clipper ).  Users were often vehement when
other posters criticized CA or VO. Some take offense, some simply see the
criticism as pointless or unproductive.  The truth is generally somewhere
in between.

>From my point of view, I see the posts ( not just Tjaart's ) as productive.
I've learned quite a bit about the Scenix and Atmel chips capabilities
from this list.  I will undoubtedly give them some attention in the future.


Eric


'16F877 Evaluation Boards'
1999\07\01@004959 by Tjaart van der Walt
flavicon
face
Bob Drzyzgula wrote:
>
<big snip>
I agree with you completely on all the snipped point. You put
it much better than myself too.

{Quote hidden}

I have no quarrel with the PIC or even the architecture.
It (architecture) has proven itself over and over to be
the best road to low-cost solutions. I don't want to push
too hard for discussions on other architectures on this list
because we all know it will eventually end up as pointless
architecture wars. :(

I do feel that Scenix deserves a whole lot of plugging. They
are an independant company and have been bashed (unfairly -
have you read the ludicrous claims?) by Microchip. Their
development system (SX Key) beats the shit out of anything
that Mchip (or any other vendor, for that matter) has
brought out. Having worked with different ICE's in my life,
the SX key is a refreshingly simple, small, and cheap solution.
Even a hobbyist can afford one.

Atmel has gone to great lengths to improve AVRstudio, and it
is showing. It is an obvious rip-off of MPLAB. With the
TinyICE, they will get ahead in that game too.

{Quote hidden}

You'd need a miracle to improve Mot's image! ;)
I have been proposing specific Atmel parts to replace specific
PICs (exam. 90L8535 for a 16$877), but the SX chips are not targeted
as agressively as the Atmel parts (they don't have the same legal
budget of Atmel). Generally the SX chips are more flexible though.
We all snickered softly (and loudly) when the Scenix folks called
their bit-bopping routines 'virtual peripherals'. Truth is, they
are very, very agressively following up on that promise. How
many vendors have you seen who give you the full source for a
software modem? There's even space left to hook in the LCD, keypad
etc code (oops - virtual peripheral).

> Another thing you might be able to do is to start
> an 8051-general mailing list, that isn't tied to any
> particular 8051 vendor, and isn't moderated.  Then actively
> try to recruit PICLIST members, and members of existing
I am not trying to 'steal' PIC users. I am trying to encourage
them to voice dissatisfaction to their Mchip dealers over the
price issue. We need healthy competition. A few weeks ago some
big shot marketing specialist from Mchip came to visit us. I
asked what they were going to do about the fact that the PIC
OTP's are costing twice that of the flash AVR's. He's response
was straight from the manual : "Microchip can compete with
any OTP part of any manufacturer". I said that wasn't competing,
that the statement was not true. He said : "Microchip can
compete with any OTP part of any manufacturer". Deja vu. I was
as mad as a snake. No, madder - he wasted my time by being
unprepared and trying to feed me BS.

> One last thing you could possibly do, Tjaart, is to
> go out and buy and read a few books by Dale Carnegie.
> Mr. Cargegie's advice is timeless and widely applicable,
> and I recommend it highly.
I've been reading Terry Pratchet so far. Hummm. ;)

>
> My apologies for any errors in the above, or if I have
> offended anyone. But I really believe that PIC-bashing
The only time I am offended if I am underestimated. You
are completely right in what you said. You are just much
more diplomatic than myself. Maybe I should read that book.
I am still stuck in the preface of "How to make friends and
influence people" <GRIN>

> will result in very little change in the prices of PICs,
> and that positive, non-judgemental advocacy and support
> of an alternative architecture is probably the best way
> to attack Microchip's prices. I believe that you are a
> real treasure to be contributing to PICLIST, Tjaart,
> and I want to say thank you for all I have learned from
> your posts. But I do wish you would find a new approach
> to your campaign against the high prices of PICs.
Best thing that can happen, is the reason for the campaign
going away.

--
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|--------------------------------------------------|

1999\07\01@020451 by Russell McMahon

picon face
Just a few comments on points raised here.
I'm certainly not a PIC basher - I'm more commenting on some
peripheral points raised.


I do agree that PIC seem to be largely rather dearer than they
"should" be - the 16C505 is arguably the exception.


Didna see Tjaarts post (yet) but Bob's comments are interesting.




From: Bob Drzyzgula <spampicspam_OUTspamdrzyzgula.org>


>On Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 06:12:29AM +0200, Tjaart van der Walt wrote:
>>
>> The attitude in Arizona that they are above competition. Fact
>> is, it is partly true because of a lazy attitude on the part
>> of us engineers (I include myself).
>> ...
>> I know it is nearly impossible to get an engineer to look further
than
{Quote hidden}

I use ST6, PIC, Z8 and intend to use AVR "soon".
Also new Philips "LPC" (low pin count) series looks promising.
Philips are subsidising a low cost REAL ICE (real time full speed
trace buffer) for it

The Z8 has an excellent $99 ICE (no real time trace but run to
breakpoints etc).

I am using the Z8 for a largish volume commercial project (50,000pa -
not in the REALLY big league) entirely because it was the cheapest
device I could find that did the job I needed - had to have hardware
PWM. Z8E001 dies this for around $US1 in volume. 16C505 is cheaper
but hasn'r got the hardware PWM. PICs with hardware PWM are much
dearer.

I will still use PICs in future but I think they haven't faced the
relaity of recent price moves for other equally capable devices.
Their support is excellent and resources are good (Zilog is an
eye-opener after Microchip :-)) but the Zilog low cost ICE and IDE
is very very good to get you going.

>* As we've discussed before, the PIC architecture is
>exceedingly beginner-friendly.

I'd disagree. For the "hello world" stuff its oK but I think it's
arcane as you write bigger programs after other more "linear" address
space devices - it does however give you excellent code compactness
as a result. PIC also suffers from having grown from a very very old
design - the double barrel roll required to save context on interupt
is bizarre and is a clear product of not having to do this
way-back-then when there were no interupts. I appreciate MChips
desire to make code backward c ompatible but Scenix seems to have
addressed this very nicely (I haven't USED Scenix personally yet) by
providing a basic context save on interupt. Also, adding things like
a real stack in some versions would allow upwards migration while
allowing older code to run transparently.

> The documentation is accessible,

Very good compared to ... :-)

>programmers are cheap,

Dearer than xxx's ICE/Programmer/...

>and introductory books
>are plentiful.

Agree

>MPLAB is a pretty darned cool thing to give
>away, and the fact that it includes a simulator means that
>people can actually get a bunch of exposure to PICs without
>spending a dime. PICs are generally available in small,
>easy to use DIP packages and require an absolute minimum
>of support circuitry to get started.


Z8 is the same and possibly needs even less startup support.


>They are available in
>small quantities from a variety of sources.

I've had no trouble here on the underside of the world buying PIC,
AVR, ST6 or Z8 in small quantities.

> PIC-centric
>websites abound, and PIC enthusiasts are famously helpful
>and tolerant of beginners.

MUCH better than xxx for who I have yet to find a list (may exist)

>Philips' P87LPC764 is a refreshing change in a 20-pin
>DIP. But AFAIK, they are only available in OTP, which is
>a real drag if you don't have an emulator, even if they
>do only cost $1.50 each in volume.

And see the just out 87LPC767 which adds A2D.
Note as above the real ICE for probably $US150 ish I believe (this
price is 2nd hand from a person who should know - the price may be
wrong) - I
understand that this is a special version of a unit which sells for
about $US800 + ish when supplied in a form suitable for most Philips
8051 series cpus.


>One last thing you could possibly do, Tjaart, is to
>go out and buy and read a few books by Dale Carnegie.
>Mr. Cargegie's advice is timeless and widely applicable,
>and I recommend it highly.


His best advice
(the theme of "How to win friends and influence people")
is

       "be genuinely interested in other people"


- not sure how that applies to any of the above :-)



RM

1999\07\01@022829 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
Hi Russell,

At 05:58 PM 7/1/99 +1200, you wrote:
>>* As we've discussed before, the PIC architecture is
>>exceedingly beginner-friendly.
>
>I'd disagree. For the "hello world" stuff its oK but I think it's
>arcane as you write bigger programs after other more "linear" address
>space devices - it does however give you excellent code compactness
>as a result. PIC also suffers from having grown from a very very old
>design - the double barrel roll required to save context on interupt
>is bizarre and is a clear product of not having to do this
>way-back-then when there were no interupts. I appreciate MChips
>desire to make code backward c ompatible but Scenix seems to have
>addressed this very nicely (I haven't USED Scenix personally yet) by
>providing a basic context save on interupt. Also, adding things like
>a real stack in some versions would allow upwards migration while
>allowing older code to run transparently.
>

I have worked with several micros but the PIC has definately been the one I
have done the most work on. SO, as a result, I have a question about
typical micrcontroller architecture: how many microcontrollers operate at a
constant number of cycles per instruction (except branches)? I find this to
be a real time saver. I have written a fair amount of code for the 68000
series,and I am glad I never had to try to write something isochronous or
an exact delay.

I have also seen some of the MIPS architecture (which, I guess, is as flat
RISC as it gets) but I wonder how many micros in the same class as the
PIC(available in flash and with a small pin count and built-in
peripherals), but which include the features that you want (a real stack,
linear addressing, etc.), also have the constant number of cycles per
instr? Yes, I know that the SX and AVR do, but they don't have a real stack
and linear addressing, do they? (I am familiar with the SX, but not yet
with the AVR)




Sean


|
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| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
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1999\07\01@033213 by Tjaart van der Walt

flavicon
face
Sean Breheny wrote:
>
> I have also seen some of the MIPS architecture (which, I guess, is as flat
> RISC as it gets) but I wonder how many micros in the same class as the
> PIC(available in flash and with a small pin count and built-in
> peripherals), but which include the features that you want (a real stack,
> linear addressing, etc.), also have the constant number of cycles per
> instr? Yes, I know that the SX and AVR do, but they don't have a real stack
> and linear addressing, do they? (I am familiar with the SX, but not yet
> with the AVR)

PIC
---
Memory : Piecewise linear (read : banked)
Stack : No access
Push/Pop : No
Deep : Dependant on part. Max 8 deep.

SX
--
Memory : Piecewise linear (read : banked)
Stack : No access
Push/Pop : Yes
Deep : 8 deep.

AVR
---
Memory : Linear (read : no banking)
Stack : In general purpose RAM
Push/Pop : Yes
Deep : Only limited by RAM size



--
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1999\07\01@070753 by ruben

flavicon
face
Tjaart wrote,

>
> PIC
> ---
> Memory : Piecewise linear (read : banked)
> Stack : No access
> Push/Pop : No
> Deep : Dependant on part. Max 8 deep.
>
> SX
> --
> Memory : Piecewise linear (read : banked)
> Stack : No access
> Push/Pop : Yes

How is Push/Pop done on a SX?

> Deep : 8 deep.
>
> AVR
> ---
> Memory : Linear (read : no banking)
> Stack : In general purpose RAM
> Push/Pop : Yes
> Deep : Only limited by RAM size
>

One other important (for me) item here is the ability to
access program memory from within the program (for
checksumming program memory and easy table lookup).

Posibility to checksum program memory:

PIC (low and mid range): No
SX: Yes
AVR: ??? I don't know. Anybody else?
==============================
Ruben Jvnsson
AB Liros Elektronik
Box 9124, 200 39 Malmv, Sweden
TEL INT +4640142078
FAX INT +4640947388
EraseMErubenspamKILLspam2.sbbs.se
==============================

1999\07\01@081454 by Russell McMahon

picon face
From: Sean Breheny <EraseMEshb7RemoveMEspamCORNELL.EDU>

>Hi Russell,
>I have worked with several micros but the PIC has definately been
the one I
>have done the most work on. SO, as a result, I have a question about
>typical micrcontroller architecture: how many microcontrollers
operate at a
>constant number of cycles per instruction (except branches)?
New Z8+ core has constant time for ALL instructions including
branches/Jumps.
Or so the manual says. A few don't make sense but I havenm't yet
written code to see if they are lying :-).
eg CALL should take longer but ...
Most other micros have well defined but variable times depending on
op code etc.

>I have also seen some of the MIPS architecture (which, I guess, is
as flat
>RISC as it gets) but I wonder how many micros in the same class as
the
>PIC(available in flash and with a small pin count and built-in
>peripherals), but which include the features that you want (a real
stack,
>linear addressing, etc.), also have the constant number of cycles
per
>instr? Yes, I know that the SX and AVR do, but they don't have a
real stack
>and linear addressing, do they? (I am familiar with the SX, but not
yet
>with the AVR)

Z8+ comes surprisingly close. Addressing is paged but in a much more
graceful way than PICs. You can use various length instructions to
address successively larger addrss areas ot use page pointers.




RM

1999\07\01@094058 by Tjaart van der Walt

flavicon
face
Ruben Jšnsson wrote:
>
> Tjaart wrote,
>
> >
> > PIC
> > ---
> > Memory : Piecewise linear (read : banked)
> > Stack : No access
> > Push/Pop : No
> > Deep : Dependant on part. Max 8 deep.
> >
> > SX
> > --
> > Memory : Piecewise linear (read : banked)
> > Stack : No access
> > Push/Pop : Yes
>
> How is Push/Pop done on a SX?

This is my second reply - Windows crashed just before
I sent my first (makes you wonder, doesn't it ;) )

'PUSH' & 'POP' on the SX is done in the way it should be
- automatically! There are shadow registers that automatically
save the PC, W, FSR, and STATUS registers. This stack runs
independant of the 8 level call stack.


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1999\07\01@111527 by Darrel Johansen

picon face
    PIC
    ---
    Program Memory : up to 2 Mbytes, Linear, readable/writable
    Call Stack : 31 levels, readable/writable
    Address Push/Pop : Yes
    Parameter Stack : 4K, direct and indirect address,
                       3 separate indirect (stack) pointers
    Parameter Push/Pop : Yes
    Code compatible with 16C74
    Enhanced PIC instruction set:
       Single word instructions execute in one cycle (except when prefetch
                                                    flushed)
       4 double word instructions
       9 Branch Instructions
    Priority Interrupts
    Fast Interrupt/CALL stack for auto-context register save/restore,
            independant from normal CALL and Parameter stacks.


    This is for the 18Cxxx parts.

    Darrel

1999\07\01@132906 by ShadeDemon

picon face
>
>      PIC
>      This is for the 18Cxxx parts.

 My turn to be cynical!  Great list, but comparing that
feature list with the 16c877, now I can't wait to see how
the PRICE ends up comparing to the 16c877 and other
manufacturer's parts..
Alan

1999\07\02@015822 by ruben

flavicon
face
Tjart wrote,

{Quote hidden}

Ok, I thought You meant pushing and poping data on the
ordinary call stack under program control.

==============================
Ruben Jvnsson
AB Liros Elektronik
Box 9124, 200 39 Malmv, Sweden
TEL INT +4640142078
FAX INT +4640947388
@spam@rubenEraseMEspamspam2.sbbs.se
==============================

1999\07\02@083250 by Eric Oliver

flavicon
face
What's the price and where do you get it ? I thought Digikey carried the entire
PIC line but they have no PIC18s listed.

Eric

On Thursday, July 01, 1999 10:14 AM, Darrel Johansen [SMTP:darrel.johansen@MICRO
CHIP.COM] wrote:
{Quote hidden}

1999\07\02@100521 by Darrel Johansen

picon face
Eric Oliver wrote:
>
> What's the price and where do you get it ? I thought Digikey carried the entir
e PIC line but they have no PIC18s listed.

This is a brand new architecture and will not be stocked at Digikey until later
this year (I am not authorized to give you dates).  If you are really
interested, you should contact your Microchip Field Application Engineer.  One
nice thing about these first 18Cxxx parts is that they are pin-for-pin,
instruction-for-instruction drop-in upgrades for 16c7x type products that are
running out of "horsepower" in terms of RAM and ROM.  Of course, you can also
take advantage of the new features by optimizing your code.

Though the initial chips in this series are defined, user's applications will
drive peripherals, etc. on future versions.

--
___________________________
|     Darrel Johansen     |
|     tempe,  arizona     |
|   darreljTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamprimenet.com  |
|_________________________|

1999\07\02@123030 by Ben Stragnell

flavicon
face
Darrel,

Any info on the max clock speed for the 18cxxx parts?

Cheers,
Ben

Darrel Johansen wrote:
>
> Eric Oliver wrote:
> >
> > What's the price and where do you get it ? I thought Digikey carried the ent
ire PIC line but they have no PIC18s listed.
{Quote hidden}

1999\07\02@145010 by Darrel Johansen

picon face
    Ben asks:

    > Any info on the max clock speed for the 18cxxx parts?

    Initial specs call for 40 Mhz (10 MIPS).  This is done using an
    internal PLL which is driven by an external 10 Mhz clock.

    Darrel

1999\07\02@161431 by Harold Hallikainen

picon face
On Fri, 2 Jul 1999 09:35:29 -0700 Ben Stragnell <@spam@spareSTOPspamspamCODEPUPPIES.COM>
writes:
>Darrel,
>
>Any info on the max clock speed for the 18cxxx parts?
>

       The 18CXX2 is rated DC to 40 MHz unless the PLL is running.  Then
it is 4 to 10 MHz.

Harold


Harold Hallikainen
TakeThisOuTharoldTakeThisOuTspamRemoveMEhallikainen.com
Hallikainen & Friends, Inc.
See the FCC Rules at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules and comments filed
in LPFM proceeding at http://hallikainen.com/lpfm

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'16F877 Evaluation Boards ( [OT] Pic prices)'
1999\07\02@164822 by tmariner

flavicon
face
Many of the posts in this thread suggest that Pic unit costs are high and
that Microchip's management is taking unfair advantage because they have
great marketplace presence and due to support from designers typified by the
Piclist.

In the past six months two of our customers have received substantial (25%)
price reductions when the folks in Chandler went through a shrink, lowered
costs and passed along the savings. The trick is that the old non-shrunk
part is still offered for sale (for quality reasons) at the old price. If
one does not ask specifically for the new (B or whatever) version, they will
happily keep shipping you the old devices at the old prices. Obviously one
has to qo through a re-qualification proceedure but the evidence I see is
that, in fact, Microchip is lowering prices when it is justified
(sometimes).

Tom

1999\07\02@171701 by Darrel Johansen

picon face
    Harold Hallikainen writes:

    > The 18CXX2 is rated DC to 40 MHz unless the PLL is running.  Then it
    > is 4 to 10 MHz.

    In both cases, maximum speed is 10 MIPs.  When it is driven by a 10
    MHz external clock with the PLL, the internal speed is 40 MHz.

    BTW, Embedded Systems Magazine reports in the July 1999 issue that I
    received today that the pricing in 10,000 unit quantities for the
    first for parts ranges from $5.98 to $7.41.

    Darrel Johansen

1999\07\02@190202 by Eric Oliver

flavicon
face
> If you are really
> interested, you should contact your Microchip Field Application Engineer.

What's a Microchip Field Application Engineer ? <grin>  I'm a hobbyist ...

I'll just wait and get my news from this list ;) ...

Eric

On Friday, July 02, 1999 8:58 AM, Darrel Johansen [SMTP:spam_OUTdarreljspamspam.....PRIMENET.COM] wr
ote:
> Eric Oliver wrote:
> >
> > What's the price and where do you get it ? I thought Digikey carried the ent
ire PIC line but they have no PIC18s listed.
{Quote hidden}

'HELP::Getting a 16F877 up and running'
1999\07\03@170936 by Aaron Martin

flavicon
face
Guys,
   I have successfuly gotten a 16F84 up and running and made an attempt
at getting
a 16F877 up, but I'm stumped.

The pic is programmed correctly (verified using a protoboard, I am
blinking Port D.0 through D.2)

I wired it up using the same "concept" as the 16F84:
   OSCin/OSCout (pins 13/14) to a Crystal (same crystal that I used on
my 16F84, 10mhz).  With 22pf caps to ground.
4.7k resitor to +5v on Pin 1 for MCLR.  +5v on pins 11 and 32 with a
.1uf cap to ground. 12 + 31 to ground.
I then wired pin 21 (Port D.2) to a 470 ohm to a led...

   I don't see any voltage change on port D at all...as if either no
clocks are running, or the chip is in reset... OR I
don't know about something else I should have wired up... Anyone have
any ideas?
       -- Aaron

1999\07\03@185459 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Aaron Martin wrote:
>
> Guys,
>     I have successfuly gotten a 16F84 up and running and made an attempt
> at getting
> a 16F877 up, but I'm stumped.
>
> The pic is programmed correctly (verified using a protoboard, I am
> blinking Port D.0 through D.2)

snip---

follow the link: SimmStick Student Projects from:
http://www.dontronics.com/vicuni.html
to get to: Programming the PIC16F877 on a SimmStick.
and you may find it in the init code.

Don McKenzie  spamBeGonedonspamspam_OUTdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\07\03@205748 by ronruss

flavicon
face
The config register for the 877 has more bits that need to be 'set'
than the 84. You might have problems using an 84 programming software
to program the 877. Try the updated programming software from
http://www.picwiser.com.

Aaron Martin wrote:

{Quote hidden}

--

From: Ron Russ
  EMICROS  - Embedded Micro Software
 (http://www.emicros.com)
  CANPORT  - Lowest cost PC to Controller Area Network Adapter
 (http://www.emicros.com/canport.htm)
  CANTEC11 - 68HC11 SBC with Controller Area Network
 (http://www.emicros.com/cantec11.htm)

1999\07\03@231702 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 16:09 3/07/99 -0500, you wrote:


Make sure that either the LVP config bit is programmed as '0' or ensure
that port b.3 (pin-36) is grounded at all times.

Tony, are you reading this? This may well be why your 16F877 emulated a
piece of plastic. I have been thinking about this for a while.

Jim



{Quote hidden}

________________________________________
Email: EraseMEnewfound.....spampipeline.com.au
http://www.new-elect.com
WARP-13 SALE now on. $48USD with world delivery.
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers and firmware
upgrades for many programmers.
________________________________________

1999\07\03@233400 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Jim Robertson wrote:
>
> At 16:09 3/07/99 -0500, you wrote:
>
> Make sure that either the LVP config bit is programmed as '0' or ensure
> that port b.3 (pin-36) is grounded at all times.
>
> Tony, are you reading this? This may well be why your 16F877 emulated a
> piece of plastic. I have been thinking about this for a while.
>
> Jim

port b.3 (pin-36) is grounded at all times Young Jim?
Is "at all times" really mean "at all times"?

I don't like the sound of this.

Don McKenzie  spamdonKILLspamspam@spam@dontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\07\04@071525 by paulb

flavicon
face
Don McKenzie wrote:

> port b.3 (pin-36) is grounded at all times Young Jim?
> Is "at all times" really mean "at all times"?

 Note carefully what he said.  "Make sure that *either* the LVP config
bit is programmed as '0' *or* ensure that port b.3 (pin-36) is grounded
at all times."

 It appears that *if* you enable the Low Voltage Programming mode then
for whatever random reason it suits them to dedicate B.3 to this
function. Pull it high and you are in programming mode.

> I don't like the sound of this.

 Well, Tough!  This just led me to look into the datasheet.  It's very
"Microchip" if you take my point.  It *still* contains the disclaimer:
"To maintain upward compatibility with future PIC16CXXX products, _do
not use_ the OPTION and TRIS instructions."

 Which means of course, that despite their exclusion from the command
summary, those instructions are most certainly *still* there and thus
the *preferred* (easiest) way to access those registers.  Again, *very*
Microchip (Orwellian).

 But that's not all!  There may be a reason I have yet to find, but
get this, PORTB and TRISB and *only* those port registers are now
aliased in Banks 2 and 3.  The thot plickens!

 And I've only just begun to delve into the datasheet!
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\07\04@090856 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> Jim Robertson wrote:
> >
> > At 16:09 3/07/99 -0500, you wrote:
> >
> > Make sure that either the LVP config bit is programmed as '0' or ensure
> > that port b.3 (pin-36) is grounded at all times.
> >
> > Tony, are you reading this? This may well be why your 16F877 emulated a
> > piece of plastic. I have been thinking about this for a while.
> >
> > Jim
>
> port b.3 (pin-36) is grounded at all times Young Jim?
> Is "at all times" really mean "at all times"?

It means at all times during normal operation if the LVP bit is set, which
it is by default.

It's a great idea. 5V only programming. No programmable voltage supply.
Pull you voltage from the PC keybard port, which is what I've done with my
homemade programmer (along with the 2 9V batteries for the high voltage
programmable supply)

Unfortunately the placement of the now dedicated pins to select programming
mode was poor. It's right in the middle of a perfectly good 8 bit port.
it must be grounded during normal operation and cannot be used as either
an input or output.

It certainly would have been better if this pin had been located either on
one of the two non 8 bit ports (A or E) or if it had to be an 8 bit port
at least place it at one end of the other so that a contigouous 7 bit port
could be formed.

>
> I don't like the sound of this.

It's isn't a major disaster. Simply clear the LVP bit in the config word the
first time you program the part (using the normal high voltage programming
algorithm, which works all the time BTW) and you get port b.3 back for
normal operation.

It just would have been nicer if that pin had been placed a bit more out the
way since in LVP mode it's totally out of commission during normal operation.

BAJ

1999\07\04@123453 by Aaron Martin

flavicon
face
Turns out I got the 16F877 up and running.  Here were my bugs:
   Pins 1 & 2 touching.
   NEeded to change the OSC type from XT to HS.

   Thats all..and Pin B.3 is floating.
       -- Aaron

Jim Robertson wrote:

{Quote hidden}

1999\07\04@182853 by paulb

flavicon
face
Aaron Martin wrote:

>     Thats all..and Pin B.3 is floating.

 Well, I hope you have programmed it as output then, like all unused
and therfore unconnected pins.
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

1999\07\04@184134 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Paul B. Webster VK2BZC wrote:
>
> Don McKenzie wrote:
>
> > port b.3 (pin-36) is grounded at all times Young Jim?
> > Is "at all times" really mean "at all times"?
>
>   Note carefully what he said.  "Make sure that *either* the LVP config
> bit is programmed as '0' *or* ensure that port b.3 (pin-36) is grounded
> at all times."

**or** Hmmm....

OK Paul, at my age you don't have to tell me more than twice, well... 3
or 4 times tops!

You must get up as early as me, I really wonder where you find the time
for all that doctoring stuff?

Don McKenzie  RemoveMEdonRemoveMEspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

'Where can I find 16F877 in UK'
1999\07\09@044255 by Lester Wilson

flavicon
face
We have the parts in stock at competitive prices, see the web page for
secure on line ordering

regards
Lester Wilson
Crownhill Associates Limited
The Old Bakery
New Barns Road
Ely, Cambs.
CB7 4PW

Tel: +44 (0) 1353 666709
Fax: +44 (0) 1353 666710
-----------------------------------------
http://www.crownhill.co.uk
http://www.towitoko.co.uk
http://www.Edsim2000.com
----------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: Les <TakeThisOuTles@spam@spam@spam@TOP204.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
To: <TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: 12 June 1999 19:50
Subject: Where can I find 16F877 in UK


> Could anyone please tell me where I can purcase any of the new 16F8XX
range
> of PIC'S here in the UK ?
>
>
>         Thanks in advance.
>                                         Les
>
> KILLspamlesKILLspamspamspamBeGonetop204.freeserve.co.uk

'16F877 and CCS Compiler'
1999\07\19@071006 by Patrick Clauberg

flavicon
face
Hi ,

I want to use the 16F877 for a project.
Programming it with the DIY96 and P16Pro seems to work (having modified the
device.ini), but my CCS Compiler doesn't support the 16F877.

Actually it doesn't even support the 16C77 which seems the closest match.

I thought of compiling programs for the 16C74 and try to use this ones.

When I load my .hex to the P16Pro , the programmer changes the PIC TYPE to
the one, used in the C-Code.
If I Change the Device type for being able to program, the memory is being
cleared.

Can anybody tell me what would be the best(cheapest) way to solve this.
Can I add the 16F877 manually to my CCS Compiler?

Thanks

Patrick

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Patrick Clauberg
http://www.nef.wh.uni-dortmund.de/~pat/
ICQ: 5234686
-------------------------------------------------------------------

1999\07\20@033558 by root

flavicon
face
Hi,
what is the version number of your CCS compiler?
Imre

1999\07\20@042408 by Patrick Clauberg

flavicon
face
> Hi,
> what is the version number of your CCS compiler?
> Imre


it's the 2.218 from 1996

Patrick

---------------------------------------------
Patrick Clauberg
http://www.nef.wh.uni-dortmund.de/~pat/
ICQ: 5234686


'16F877 Programming difficulties'
1999\08\06@172922 by Dave Johnson
flavicon
face
Just a quick note in case this jogs anyone's memory:

I'm trying to program a PIC16F877 on my board, it's a TQFP package, I
have a 5X2 pin header for programming, identical setup to my last project
using a 16F84 (jumpered for operation).

I built a programming cable with a 40 pin socket on one end and a 5X1
plug for the header on the other, I'm using a Picstart+. Again, this is
the same way I did it for the 16f84.

16F877s in a DIP package program just fine in the Picstart, but when I
plug in the cable and plug that into a board I can't get it to program, I
get various errors, including "Cannot Transmit", "Cannot Receive", just
plain "Failure" in the program/verify window, and occasionally something
like "Command 8F not echoed properly (F8)".

Does anyone have any clue what might be wrong? Or suggestions on what to
look for? The cable checks out fine with the ohmmeter, it's about 8
inches long and shielded, so should be electrically fine. I'm stumped.

Dave Johnson

1999\08\06@183027 by kfinney

picon face
Can't help, but I can commiserate. I was just whining about this
happening yesterday. We're using PICSTART Plus, also. Funny thing
is, of three 877s on my desk, this is the only one to behave
like this. Now, with the good ones, I did get a lot of "Cannot
Transmit" Cannot Receive", etc. but they still take the bits.
This particular specimen took the bits once just fine, then suddenly
began reporting failure after finishing address 1FFF. A read
indicates that the original successful (but buggy) code is still
there.

>
> Just a quick note in case this jogs anyone's memory:
>
> I'm trying to program a PIC16F877 on my board, it's a TQFP package, I
> have a 5X2 pin header for programming, identical setup to my
> last project
> using a 16F84 (jumpered for operation).
>
> I built a programming cable with a 40 pin socket on one end and a 5X1
> plug for the header on the other, I'm using a Picstart+.
> Again, this is
> the same way I did it for the 16f84.
>
> 16F877s in a DIP package program just fine in the Picstart,
> but when I
> plug in the cable and plug that into a board I can't get it
> to program, I
> get various errors, including "Cannot Transmit", "Cannot
> Receive", just
> plain "Failure" in the program/verify window, and
> occasionally something
> like "Command 8F not echoed properly (F8)".
>
> Does anyone have any clue what might be wrong? Or
> suggestions on what to
> look for? The cable checks out fine with the ohmmeter, it's about 8
> inches long and shielded, so should be electrically fine.
> I'm stumped.
>
> Dave Johnson
>

'16F877 Programming followup'
1999\08\07@102941 by Dave Johnson

flavicon
face
A followup to the 16F877 ICSP difficulties I was having:

When I built my ICSP cable, I wasn't sure which Vss and Vdd pin to use on
the programmer side: there are 2 of each. I figured they were probably
connected internally anyway, so it wouldn't matter, but just to be "safe"
I connected them together across the socket that gets plugged into the
programmer before soldering on the cable.

Yesterday in desperation (and in the spirit of "try anything, no matter
how ridiculous") I snipped that connection between the Vdd and Vss pairs,
and lo and behold, I suddenly was able to program my boards! Most of the
time anyway. I still can't read them, strangely, so verify doesn't work,
but programming works 9 out of 10 times.

So my next newbie question is: why? Why should it matter if the Vdd and
Vss pairs are wired together or not? And what might make my cable be able
to program but not read the chip? RB7 is both in and out, so obviously
the connection is fine, since the parts program.

Dave Johnson

1999\08\07@113504 by Eric Oliver

flavicon
face
I am a complete newbie, so take this with a grain of salt. Maybe your cable
is too long ?  I've read messages here in the past where people were having
problems with circuits that turned out to be related to cable length.
Perhaps it has to do with the extra capacitance introduced by the cable.

Here's hoping this prompts someone more knowledgable to provide more
concise suggestions.

Eric

On Saturday, August 07, 1999 9:29 AM, Dave Johnson
[SMTP:spamBeGonedjohnsonKILLspamspamSIRIUS.COM] wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'Troubles programming the new 16F877 FLASH parts.'
1999\08\08@055131 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
Hi Folks,

Here is the results of some experimenting with the new 16F87x flash parts.
There is a hidden problem with programming these parts and it relates to
the low voltage program mode and the low voltage program control pin RB3.
The type of programming problems I found are similar to those reported on
the piclist by several others.

When these parts a blank (like when new) or any other time the when the LVP
config bit is programmed as a '1' the state of RB3 becomes an issue. It
must NOT
be tied high as VDD rises or unpredictable results occur. I could not get any
satisfaction trying to read or program a part in this condition. Exactly
why I
cannot say. It appears that the chips cannot enter either the low or high
voltage
programming state.  This condition is not documented in the programming
specs so
we are left to wonder.

If RB3 is low there is no problem.

It would not be a good idea to leave RB3 floating as it is an input. I
believe this
may also cause unpredictable results but based on my tests they are not as
common as
when RB3 is held high.

The implications of this are:

1) Some programmers will not be able to program these flash parts unless
modified.
Three programmers in this boat include the propic II, Multi picpro and the
first
release of my own warp-13 (there are details of work arounds on my web page.
The newer Warp-13a has a hardware fix.) No doubt there are other
programmers in
this group.

2) Most programmers should have a resistor fitted to ground on RB3 to
prevent this
input from floating.

3) ICSP will need to be modified to allow for the role of RB3. For many
apps 5-wire ICSP
will need to became 6-wire ICSP with RB3 also connected. If the target circuit
holds RB3 low this will not be required.

4) Care must be taken to ensure that the circuit on a target board ICSP
allows for
RB3 to be pulled low via the programmer.

I believe when these considerations are taken the problems with programming
the flash
parts will disappear as they have for me.

Jim

Regards,

Jim Robertson
NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS
________________________________________
Email: newfound@spam@spamKILLspampipeline.com.au
http://www.new-elect.com
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers.
________________________________________

1999\08\08@072911 by Octavio Nogueira

flavicon
face
ProPic 2 is already fixed for this king of problem.

                         /"\
Friendly Regards          \ /
                          X  ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
Octavio Nogueira          / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL
===================================================
EraseMEnogueiraRemoveMEspam@spam@propic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
>From the creator of ProPic, ProPic 2 now much better
New ProPic 2  homepage:      http://www.propic2.com
PIC Programmer for Windows with down to earth price
===================================================
-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Jim Robertson <RemoveMEnewfoundspamspamEraseMEPIPELINE.COM.AU>
Para: <STOPspamPICLIST.....spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Enviada em: Domingo, Agosto 08, 1999 07:00
Assunto: Troubles programming the new 16F877 FLASH parts.


> Hi Folks,
>
> Here is the results of some experimenting with the new 16F87x flash parts.
> There is a hidden problem with programming these parts and it relates to
> the low voltage program mode and the low voltage program control pin RB3.
> The type of programming problems I found are similar to those reported on
> the piclist by several others.
>
> When these parts a blank (like when new) or any other time the when the
LVP
> config bit is programmed as a '1' the state of RB3 becomes an issue. It
> must NOT
> be tied high as VDD rises or unpredictable results occur. I could not get
any
{Quote hidden}

page.
{Quote hidden}

circuit
> holds RB3 low this will not be required.
>
> 4) Care must be taken to ensure that the circuit on a target board ICSP
> allows for
> RB3 to be pulled low via the programmer.
>
> I believe when these considerations are taken the problems with
programming
{Quote hidden}

1999\08\08@220208 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 08:25 8/08/99 -0300, you wrote:

So how do I fix mine? I use it for production standard programming.
What is yor recommended solution?

Regards,

Jim


{Quote hidden}

Regards,

Jim Robertson
NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS
________________________________________
Email: spam_OUTnewfoundspamspampipeline.com.au
http://www.new-elect.com
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers.
________________________________________

1999\08\11@012745 by Tony Nixon

flavicon
picon face
Jim Robertson wrote

> If RB3 is low there is no problem.

Dead right here.

On my new 877 part even with this pin low, the first time it read 0000
all the way through. I erased it and now everything is 3FFF. It even
programs ok now.

> So how do I fix mine? I use it for production standard programming.
> What is yor recommended solution?

The simplest way I could find to modify the programming socket and still
allow programming of other PIC and EEPROMs was to rotate 18 pin PICs 180
degrees. This then swaps VccP and ground and therefore puts ground on
RB3 of the F8xxx parts. Minor PCB changes are needed to swap RB6, RB7
and VPP.

The short cut is to put a 10K resistor from RB3 to ground, cut the VccP
track to this pin, and have a switch or link to connect/disconnect this
pin to VccP.

--
Best regards

Tony

1999\08\11@015907 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 15:24 11/08/99 +1000, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Octavio's solution was to add a RC network and effectively delay the VDD
rise on the LVP pin. This I surmise allows the chip to enter the high voltage
program mode and once safely in this mode the LVP pin doesn't matter any
more.

I added a separate VDD switching transistor and a pull-down resistor on my
second generation PCBs.

Jim

>--
>Best regards
>
>Tony
>
Regards,

Jim Robertson
NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS
________________________________________
Email: spamnewfoundspamspamspampipeline.com.au
http://www.new-elect.com
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers.
________________________________________

'PIC16F877 5.25 per 100'
1999\08\19@041858 by Lester Wilson

flavicon
face
Hi, I saw your message on the list.

We have 5000+ PIC 16F877 04/P
The one off price 5.75 pounds sterling, the 100 off price 5.25 pounds
sterling.


We have no other 87x parts until end August.

You can order via our web site or fax or email me.

regards

Lester Wilson
Crownhill Associates Limited
The Old Bakery
New Barns Road
Ely, Cambs.
CB7 4PW

Tel: +44 (0) 1353 666709
Fax: +44 (0) 1353 666710
-----------------------------------------
http://www.crownhill.co.uk
http://www.towitoko.co.uk
http://www.Edsim2000.com
----------------------------------------
In Australia and Asia, it appears we won't be getting 87x parts for
another 8 to 10 weeks.

When I first tried Digikey, they would only sell me 10 at a time.
Currently, they don't have stock of anything in the range.

Anyone know where I can source the following?
PIC16F877-20/P (40 pin DIP)        100 pcs
PIC16F876-20/SP(28 pin skinny DIP) 100 pcs

Don McKenzie

1999\08\19@043140 by Tjaart van der Walt

flavicon
face
Lester Wilson wrote:
>
> Hi, I saw your message on the list.
>
> We have 5000+ PIC 16F877 04/P
> The one off price 5.75 pounds sterling, the 100 off price 5.25 pounds
> sterling.

Is this the going rate of the 16F877? The NEC780034
(1kRAM, 32k Flash blah, blah) sells for that in US
dollars (+-$5.70).

--
Friendly Regards           /"\
                          \ /
Tjaart van der Walt         X ASCII RIBBON CAMPAIGN
spamBeGonetjaartKILLspamspamKILLspamXXXXXXXXXXXX / \ AGAINST HTML MAIL
|--------------------------------------------------|
 Company name removed to indicate that the views
expressed are those of Tjaart only, and DO NOT,
IN ANY WAY necessarily reflect those of his employer.
 If you are offended by Tjaart's views, best you
         take it up with him directly.
|--------------------------------------------------|

'16F877 ICE protocol available?'
1999\08\25@050146 by wzab

flavicon
picon face
Hi All!

I think it could be a nice thing to have a GPL'ed Linux (or generally POSIX)
frontend (with a supporting hwr of course) for ICE functions of the new
PIC16F8XX controllers.
There is one small problem however. I couldn't find the ICE protocol
reference. Is it freely available, or Microchips follows the Intel's policy
and hides such "dangerous" information behind a NDA or so?
--
                             TIA
                             Wojciech M. Zabolotny
       http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab  <--> TakeThisOuTwzabspamspamise.pw.edu.pl

http://www.debian.org  Use Linux - save your data and time

'16f877 to rs232'
1999\08\26@153858 by Nabil Benhadj

flavicon
face
part 0 16 bytes
</x-html>

'Any Linux assembler with 16F877 support?'
1999\08\27@172827 by wzab

flavicon
picon face
Hi all!

I'm interested if there is any (preferrably GPL'ed) PIC assembler
for Linux, with 16F877 support. At the moment I'm using the picasm 1.06,
generating code for 16F84. The additional features are defined in an include
file. There is however a problem with new options in configuration word.
Does anybody know a better tool?

--
                       Wojciech Zabolotny
                       spamBeGonewzabspamise.pw.edu.pl
                       http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab

http://www.debian.org  Linux - free OS for free people!

'usart help with the 16f877'
1999\08\30@152016 by Nabil Benhadj

flavicon
face
part 0 16 bytes
</x-html>

1999\08\31@213544 by Tony Nixon

flavicon
picon face
> Nabil Benhadj wrote:
>
> Hi!
> I«ve made this code to work with the pic16F877 and to activate the
> usart.

....

>      bsf  RCSTA, CREN
>      bsf  STATUS,5
>      bsf  TXSTA, TXEN     ;gvr porten klar att skicka information
>      bsf  STATUS,5  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< try bcf STATUS,5
>
>      ;clrf      TXREG
>



--
Best regards

Tony

http://www.picnpoke.com
Email EraseMEsalesEraseMEspampicnpoke.com


'About 16F877-04/P'
1999\09\02@072754 by Leo
picon face
Hi friend,
I have asked to the local vendor (Roma - Italy) about the abailability of
16F877.

The answer is:
yes we have, on a minimum order of ten at about 8 US dollars each one;
the correct name of the product is 16F877-04/P .

I have asked what means -04/p and the answer is: clock at 4 Mhz maximum.

Looking at http://www.microchip.com/10/Lit/PICmicro/16F87X/index1.htm#332

the only speed mentioned is 20 Mhz.

...comments... ...interpretation??


Ciao


Leo

1999\09\02@095620 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>the only speed mentioned is 20 Mhz.
>
>...comments... ...interpretation??

It's a "real" product - I have them on order myself.

You can order the 20MHz product and it will work fine at 4.  I'm using 20's
because they are all I can get right now.

Andy

==================================================================
Andy Kunz               Life is what we do to prepare for Eternity
------------------------------------------------------------------
spamBeGoneandyspam_OUTspam.....rc-hydros.com      http://www.rc-hydros.com     - Race Boats
spamandyspammontanadesign.com  http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics
==================================================================

'HELP with 16f877'
1999\09\02@152023 by chris tolley

picon face
a plea for help if possible
does anyone have any 20mhz  f877s for sale in the uk as i have a project to
be launched in london on monday
and my f877 has put its pins in the air and its now too late to reprogram a
74a
yours hopefully
chris

RemoveME106667.2436KILLspamspamKILLspamcompuserve.com

1999\09\02@171006 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
chris tolley wrote:
>
> a plea for help if possible
> does anyone have any 20mhz  f877s for sale in the uk as i have a project to
> be launched in london on monday
> and my f877 has put its pins in the air and its now too late to reprogram a
> 74a

If you really need one for a launch Monday, you better give Lester or
Alex a ring at:
Crownhill Associates Limited
The Old Bakery
New Barns Road
Ely
Cambs CB7 4PW
U.K.
Tel: +44 (0) 1353 666709
Fax: +44 (0) 1353 666710
email: EraseMEsalesspamBeGonespamspamcrownhill.co.uk
www: http://www.crownhill.co.uk



Don McKenzie  KILLspamdonspamdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

'16F877 Programming difficulties'
1999\09\07@163914 by Larry G. Nelson Sr.

flavicon
face
The Picstart+ is not designed for in circuit serial programming. It can do
it under some circumstances but the drivers are not powerful enough to
reliably work in this capacity. If there is other circuitry on your board
that can pull the supply down. The best bet is a Promate with the ICSP
adaptor. I know it is more expensive but it does work reliably as long as
you follow the rules.


At 02:18 PM 8/6/99 -0700, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Larry G. Nelson Sr.
L.Nelsonspam_OUTspamspamieee.org
http://www.ultranet.com/~nr

1999\09\07@224558 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 11:02 3/09/99 -0400, you wrote:



Make sure the LVP pin is help LOW on your target board. It is pin 36 on the
40-pin dip parts but you will have to look it up for your SMD part. Chances
are this will see you right.


-Jim


{Quote hidden}

Regards,

Jim Robertson
NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS
________________________________________
Email: spamBeGonenewfound.....spampipeline.com.au
http://www.new-elect.com
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers.
________________________________________

'Orcad part files for 16F877'
1999\09\08@172531 by Erik Reikes

flavicon
face
Does anyone know where I can get the part database for the new 16F877 parts?

Thanks.

-Erik Reikes
Xsilogy, Inc.

1999\09\08@175121 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 02:27 PM 9/7/99 -0700, you wrote:
>Does anyone know where I can get the part database for the new 16F877 parts?

Use a PIC16C74 or '77

Andy

==================================================================
Eternity is only a heartbeat away - are you ready?  Ask me how!
------------------------------------------------------------------
.....andy@spam@spamrc-hydros.com      http://www.rc-hydros.com     - Race Boats
@spam@andyspammontanadesign.com  http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics
==================================================================

1999\09\08@193000 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face
> At 02:27 PM 9/7/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Does anyone know where I can get the part database for the new 16F877
parts?
>
> Use a PIC16C74 or '77


Did they "fix" this in the new orcad too? (and make it dramatically more
difficult?)
It only takes me a few minutes to make any part, and I make most parts
custom to the job, so that the schematic makes sense, rather than using one
pinout and making spaghetti out of the schematic.

1999\09\08@201230 by Dennis Plunkett

flavicon
face
At 18:28 8/09/99 -0500, you wrote:
>> At 02:27 PM 9/7/99 -0700, you wrote:
>> >Does anyone know where I can get the part database for the new 16F877
>parts?
>>
>> Use a PIC16C74 or '77
>
>
>Did they "fix" this in the new orcad too? (and make it dramatically more
>difficult?)
>It only takes me a few minutes to make any part, and I make most parts
>custom to the job, so that the schematic makes sense, rather than using one
>pinout and making spaghetti out of the schematic.
>
>


So do you save the library for each schematic? This can become a
maintenance nightmare. What hapens if you lose the library for that
schematic (Re-incarntaion?)
To stop spaghetti, why not use buses and hierarchial representation of the
CCT?

Dennis

1999\09\08@203317 by Dave VanHorn

flavicon
face
>
>
> So do you save the library for each schematic? This can become a
> maintenance nightmare. What hapens if you lose the library for that
> schematic (Re-incarntaion?)
> To stop spaghetti, why not use buses and hierarchial representation of the
> CCT?
>
> Dennis

Of course. Each project is archived with all the tools necessary to
reproduce it.
I start with the generic libraries, and if I have a new part that isn't in
the libraries, then I add it to "custom.lib".

When I start neatening things up though, I archive all the parts into a
project library ("thing.lib"), and any further work on the parts is now
unique to this project. When I finalize, I turn off all other generic
libraries, and work only in the project's library.

Same with PCB modules, except the board file IS the project library (an
irritating inconsistency)

I archive delivered or dead projects in a separate directory. Delivereds go
with their gerbers and drill files in the exact zip file I sent to the board
house, along with the schematic and it's part's library. I copy the design
to a new rev level for any modifications that I might make.  Anything I make
a board of is frozen at that level, and any mods happen to the new rev. This
way I can always get the schematic of the original board, regardless of any
"surgery" I've done.  I also hardfile a blank board for each project.

I use buses, and hierarchies, but still, I like ins on the left, and outs on
the right, and signals that logically go together should be located near
each other on the schematic, regardless of the physical pinout.  /RD, /WR,
and /CE are a functional group, even if intel decided to interleave them
with address lines on eproms. Address lines are a group (buss) and so is
data (another buss, located near address)  The control signals are the third
group.

'Question about programing of PIC16F877'
1999\09\16@102217 by levent oral

picon face
<x-flowed>Hello,
My question is that
I have written program for PIC16C74A about showing of two channels analog
signal's values on LCD, and it is succesful
But when I have writen the same program into PIC16F877, result is
unsuccesful, I changed only Processor type and
#include "pic16f877.inc"
and ADRES register to ADRESH.

Configuration bits
Oscillator              XT
WDT                     OFF
Power Up Timer          ON
Code Protect            OFF
Brown Out Detect        ON
Low Voltage Program     ENABLED
Data EE Protect         OFF
Flash Program Write     Enabled
Background Debug        Disabled


Programming is succesful but program is not working correctly in circuit.
what is  my mistakes,

Thanks for your helps.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

</x-flowed>

1999\09\16@110141 by Mike Mansheim

picon face
I ran into a similar problem:
If the low voltage program configuration bit is
enabled (which is the default), then pin RB3 is no
longer available as a digital i/o.  If you were using
that pin  with the C74, could be the reason things
don't work now.
Ref p.134 of F87X data sheet.

--- levent oral <l_oralRemoveMEspamHOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at
> http://www.hotmail.com
>

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

1999\09\16@212739 by Peter van Hoof

flavicon
face
It would be helpful if your post would give some clue what goes wrong
besides not working correctly exactly what does not work correctly

One thing comes to mind here.... the 877 has a of 10 bit a/d converter while
the 74a if I'm not mistaking is only 8.
Bit 7 in the ADCON1 register determines if the result in adresh,adresl is
left or right aligned, if the bit is 1 the 6 leftmost bits in adresh are 0
while the lower two bits are the msb's of the conversion.

If this is not the problem , look in the differences in the peripherals you
use (specifically the ad converter

Hope this helps


Peter van Hoof
-------------
spampvhspamvertonet.com
http://go.to/pvh

> {Original Message removed}

1999\09\18@021837 by levent oral

picon face
<x-flowed>Thanks for your helps.
You are are right, problem is RB3 that you said in your mail.
Now my program is works correctly,
Thanks again,



{Quote hidden}

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

</x-flowed>

'PIC16F877 unreliable start up'
1999\09\23@010204 by Myke Predko

flavicon
face
Hi Folks,

I've been playing around with a sample 16F877 and I am having problems with
not getting a reliable start up.  I'm trying to run it at 4 MHz (using a
crystal and two 15 pF caps).  The operation of the oscillator seems to be
hit or miss (mostly miss).  I've played around with different parts (I've
tried a ceramic resonator, different values for the capacitors) and still
nothing that is reliable.  I have not tried an in-line resistor.

Has anybody else seen this type of problem and if you did, what did you do
to fix it?

Thanx,

myke

1999\09\23@093010 by Barry King

flavicon
face
> I'm trying to run it at 4 MHz (using a
> crystal and two 15 pF caps).  The operation of the oscillator seems to be
> hit or miss (mostly miss).  I've played around with different parts (I've
> tried a ceramic resonator, different values for the capacitors) and still
> nothing that is reliable.  I have not tried an in-line resistor.
>
> Has anybody else seen this type of problem and if you did, what did you do
> to fix it?

Yes.  Exactly the same symptom I had when I was *sure* the config
bits were set for XT oscillator, but they were REALLY set for LP
oscillator.  This is a new part for you?  Even money the config is
mis-programmed as LP or RC or something, not XT.

I hope I'm right, 'cause its easy to fix by re-setting the config bits
somewhere in the tool chain.  In my case, I had an old #define that
was setting the __config bits incorrectly for the part I was using.

------------
Barry King, KA1NLH
Engineering Manager
NRG Systems "Measuring the Wind's Energy"
Hinesburg, Vermont, USA
http://www.nrgsystems.com

1999\09\23@100749 by wzab

flavicon
picon face
On Thu, Sep 23, 1999 at 12:59:52AM -0400, Myke Predko wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I've been playing around with a sample 16F877 and I am having problems with
> not getting a reliable start up.  I'm trying to run it at 4 MHz (using a
> crystal and two 15 pF caps).  The operation of the oscillator seems to be
> hit or miss (mostly miss).  I've played around with different parts (I've
> tried a ceramic resonator, different values for the capacitors) and still
> nothing that is reliable.  I have not tried an in-line resistor.
>
> Has anybody else seen this type of problem and if you did, what did you do
> to fix it?
I'm not sure if entering the programming mode may affect the oscillator, but
is the RB3 pin floating? If yes, tie it to the ground.
--
                               Greetings
                             Wojciech M. Zabolotny
       http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab  <--> spamwzabspamspamise.pw.edu.pl

http://www.gnupg.org  Gnu Privacy Guard - protect your mail & data
                     with the FREE cryptographic system

1999\09\23@102847 by Matt Bonner

flavicon
face
Myke Predko wrote:
>
> I've been playing around with a sample 16F877 and I am having problems with
> not getting a reliable start up.  I'm trying to run it at 4 MHz (using a
> crystal and two 15 pF caps).  The operation of the oscillator seems to be
> hit or miss (mostly miss).  I've played around with different parts (I've
> tried a ceramic resonator, different values for the capacitors) and still
> nothing that is reliable.  I have not tried an in-line resistor.
>
> Has anybody else seen this type of problem and if you did, what did you do
> to fix it?

I plugged my 877 sample directly into my 16C74A based product and have
no startup problems.  3.6864 MHz crystal, 15pF caps, no resistors.

I suspect that Barry is correct.

--Matt

1999\09\23@125713 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Myke, I'm probably not of much help other than to suggest the obvious
which you already know:

  1. What's MCLR tied to?
  2. Any noise on the supply rails?
  3. Is this on a plug-in breadboard? That adds capacitance.
  4. Is it a parallel resonance crystal?
  5. What Oscillator mode are you using?
  6. Is LVP enabled? If so, what's on RB3?

  I recently upgraded a 16C77 prototype to a 16F877 (using ES samples)
and I've had no problems running at 20MHz with 18pf caps at 5Vdd. I'm using
a microEngineering Labs PicProto64 board.

  - Tom

At 12:59 AM 9/23/99 -0400, Myke Predko wrote:
{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

1999\09\23@134309 by Bob Drzyzgula

flavicon
face
Myke,

Also, probably obvious as well, but did you try
unbalanced caps?

--Bob

On Thu, Sep 23, 1999 at 09:42:09AM -0700, Tom Handley wrote:
{Quote hidden}

--
============================================================
Bob Drzyzgula                             It's not a problem
@spam@bobspam_OUTspamdrzyzgula.org                until something bad happens
============================================================
       http://www.drzyzgula.org/bob/electronics/
============================================================

1999\09\23@212617 by Myke Predko

flavicon
face
Hi Wojciech,

Thanx for the pointer - you helped me find the problem.  In my application
(when it did work), I wrote some parameter data to PortB - when I checked it
with my Logic Probe, I couldn't understand why it wasn't being driven (I
cleared TRISB).

I should have looked more closely at the documentation.

While it would never boot with RB3 tied to ground, I added the parameter:

"_LVP_OFF"

To the "__CONFIG" statement and the 16F877 runs fine now.

I think this little hint will end up on my web page.

Thanx to everyone else who replied.

myke

{Original Message removed}

'PIC16f877's up on ebay.'
1999\09\24@132931 by William M. Smithers

flavicon
face
Dudes, I have a few spare 16F877's, so I figured I'd
greedily take advantage of Microchip's lead time problem
and let people fight over 'em. ;)   It's up on ebay - just
search for "PIC16f877".

-Will

1999\09\24@165638 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
You are EVIL!

;-)

-Adam walks off, murmering something about capitolism and such...

"William M. Smithers" wrote:
>
> Dudes, I have a few spare 16F877's, so I figured I'd
> greedily take advantage of Microchip's lead time problem
> and let people fight over 'em. ;)   It's up on ebay - just
> search for "PIC16f877".
>
> -Will

1999\09\24@171944 by William M. Smithers

flavicon
face
On Fri, 24 Sep 1999, M. Adam Davis wrote:

> You are EVIL!
>

Yes!  ;)  Actually, ebay's being a little slow, so they
haven't been posted yet - probably another few hours.

-Will

{Quote hidden}

'Another 16F877-20/P at eBay.'
1999\09\25@190825 by Matthew Ballinger

picon face
   I just posted another 16F877 at eBay. I don't need it right now. Take a
look.
Matt B.

1999\09\25@192940 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Matthew Ballinger wrote:
>
>     I just posted another 16F877 at eBay. I don't need it right now. Take a
> look.

I don't see it/(them?). If I need brown teddy bears, I know where to go.
:-)

Don McKenzie  .....donspam.....dontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\09\26@104438 by Matthew Ballinger

picon face
In a message dated 9/25/99 7:30:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
spamdonKILLspamspamDONTRONICS.COM writes:

> >
>  >     I just posted another 16F877 at eBay. I don't need it right now.
Take
> a
>  > look.
>
>  I don't see it/(them?). If I need brown teddy bears, I know where to go.
>  :-)
Search for PIC16f877, I found mine and 3 others I didn't know about.
Matt B

1999\09\26@132759 by Mark Willis

flavicon
face
Matthew Ballinger wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/25/99 7:30:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> RemoveMEdonRemoveMEspamDONTRONICS.COM writes:
>
> > >
> >  >     I just posted another 16F877 at eBay. I don't need it right now.
> Take
> > a
> >  > look.
> >
> >  I don't see it/(them?). If I need brown teddy bears, I know where to go.
> >  :-)
> Search for PIC16f877, I found mine and 3 others I didn't know about.
> Matt B

eBay has a PROBLEM; it's search engine doesn't do a very good job of
searching for numbers.  A search term like 16F877 confuses it; Matthew's
method works well.  Maybe if others complain too?  <G>

 Mark

1999\09\26@180258 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Matthew Ballinger wrote:
> In a message dated 9/25/99 7:30:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> KILLspamdon.....spamKILLspamDONTRONICS.COM writes:
> >  >     I just posted another 16F877 at eBay. I don't need it right now.
> >  I don't see it/(them?). If I need brown teddy bears, I know where to go.
> >  :-)
> Search for PIC16f877, I found mine and 3 others I didn't know about.

Took a couple of days before I could see it from here.
Yes four of them.
Are they really that hard to get in the states that you can auction them
off to the highest bidder?

Don McKenzie  donspam_OUTspamspam_OUTdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

1999\09\26@185116 by Matthew Ballinger

picon face
In a message dated 9/26/99 6:03:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
KILLspamdonspam@spam@DONTRONICS.COM writes:

> > >  >     I just posted another 16F877 at eBay. I don't need it right now.
>  > >  I don't see it/(them?). If I need brown teddy bears, I know where to
go.
>
>  > >  :-)
>  > Search for PIC16f877, I found mine and 3 others I didn't know about.
>
>  Took a couple of days before I could see it from here.
>  Yes four of them.
>  Are they really that hard to get in the states that you can auction them
>  off to the highest bidder?
>
   I haven't been looking too hard for them, but I see people on the list
complaining about their rarity all the time. I didn't really need this thing
at the moment, so I figured it would do someone else more good. I'm not
trying to get anymore than what I paid for it (~12.00).
Matt B.

1999\09\27@095434 by Octavio Nogueira

flavicon
face
You don't need to bid, I have both of them available
/04 and /20.

Friendly Regards

Octavio Nogueira
===================================================
@spam@nogueiraRemoveMEspampropic2.com                  ICQ# 19841898
ProPic tools - low cost PIC programmer and emulator
http://www.propic2.com
===================================================
-----Mensagem Original-----
De: Matthew Ballinger <MattBeck@spam@spamEraseMEAOL.COM>
Para: <spam_OUTPICLISTspam_OUTspamRemoveMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Enviada em: S‡bado, Setembro 25, 1999 08:07
Assunto: Another 16F877-20/P at eBay.


>     I just posted another 16F877 at eBay. I don't need it right now. Take
a
> look.
> Matt B.

1999\09\27@172246 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Octavio Nogueira wrote:
>
> You don't need to bid, I have both of them available
> /04 and /20.

I not only have them, I also have a few hundred of those 87x proto
boards selling at around $4.25USD each.
see:
http://www.dontronics.com/dt106.html
http://www.dontronics.com/dt106a.html

Don McKenzie  RemoveMEdonspam.....dontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

'I2C WITH 16F877'
1999\09\29@183300 by EDINSSON ARIZA

picon face
I am working with PIC 16F877 and i wanted to obtain a
source code of example to manipulate protocol I2C.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com


'I2C WITH 16F877'
1999\10\01@110430 by EDINSSON ARIZA
picon face
Hi Folks!

I am working with the pic 16f877 and I want to request
some of you
a code source example to be able to use the protocol
I2C because
I have not been able to put it into operation.

I thank the borrowed time ahead of time.
/**************************************************************

Ahora si en cristiano....

Hola Amigos!

Yo estoy trabajando con el pic 16f877 y quiero
solicitar a alguno de ustedes
un csdigo fuente ejemplo para poder utilizar el
protocolo I2C porque no he
podido ponerlo en funcionamiento.

Agradezco de antemano el tiempo prestado.



Edinsson Ariza.



=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

1999\10\01@133413 by Nick Taylor

picon face
There is example source code available in the App Note section of
Microchip's site (AN558 among others) and at Prof. Peter Anderson's
site.
    http://www.microchip.com/10/Appnote/index.htm
    http://www.phanderson.com/PIC/
- Nick -

PD ?Es ingles un lenguaje pagano?
- N -

EDINSSON ARIZA wrote:
{Quote hidden}

'+MSSP +I2C +16f877 ? PLEASE!'
1999\10\08@234606 by EDINSSON ARIZA

picon face
Hi Folks!

I am working with the pic 16f877 and I want to request
some of you
a code source example to be able to use the protocol
I2C MSSP because
I have not been able to put it into operation.

I thank the borrowed time ahead of time.

I have made some codes but they don't work me:

void WRITEEEPROM(char DATO)
       {
       PIE1.SSPIE=0;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Send Start Bit
       SSPBUF=SLAVE;                           //Send Adrress of device
       SSPBUF=MSW;                             //Send Word High for 24LC65
       SSPBUF=LSW;
    //Send Word Low for 24LC65
       SSPBUF=DATO;                            //Send Data to position
       SSPCON2.PEN=1;                          //Send Stop Bit
       }

char READEEPROM(char MSW,char LSW)
       {
       char DATAI;

       PIE1.SSPIE=0;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Send Start Bit
       SSPBUF=SLAVE;                           //Send Adrress of device
       SSPBUF=MSW;
       SSPBUF=LSW;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Send Start Bit
       SSPBUF=SLAVE | 0x01;                                //Output
SLAVE address and read option
       SSPCON2.RCEN=1;                         //Read Data of I2C port
       DATAI=SSPBUF;                           //put data in DATAI

//      SSPCON2.ACKEN=1;                                    //only if is
sequencial transfer
                                                           //should put SSPCON2
.ACKDT before
//      if(SSPCON2.ACKSTAT==1) ERROR(3);                    //Not
ACK
       SSPCON2.PEN=1;                          //Send Stop Bit
       return DATAI;
       }


void IICInit(void)
       {
       ERROR1=0;                                       //Clear error register
       STATUS.RP0=1;                           //Select page 1

//      SSPCON.SSPEN=1;                         //Enable I2C port
       SSPCON=0x3E;                            //I2C 7 bit slave mode with mast
er
       PORTC=0;                                        //Set SDA, SCL low when
not is tri-state
                                                       //mode enabled
       PIE1.SSPIE=0;                                   //desenable the interrup
tion to SSP
       SSPADD=0xA2;                            //Adrress of PIC in the protocol
       PORTC.3=1;                                      //Set SCL high
       PORTC.4=1;                                      //Set SDA high
       PIR1.SSPIF=0;                                   //Clear SSP interrupt fl
ag
       INTCON=0xC0;                                    //Enable interrupts
       SSPCON2.ACKDT=0;                                //It allows to place rec
ognition
bit

       STATUS.RP0=0;                               //Select page 0
       }

/*******************************************************************************
**********************************************************
/*******************************************************************************
**********************************************************


Ahora si en cristiano....

Hola Amigos!

Yo estoy trabajando con el pic 16f877 y quiero
solicitar a alguno de ustedes
un csdigo fuente ejemplo para poder utilizar el
protocolo I2C MSSP porque no he
podido ponerlo en funcionamiento.

yo he hecho algunos codigos pero no me funcionan:

void WRITEEEPROM(char DATO)
       {
       PIE1.SSPIE=0;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Manda bit de arranque
       SSPBUF=SLAVE;                           //Transfiere direccion del
dispositivo esclavo
       SSPBUF=MSW;                             //Mandar palabra de direccionami
ento
para la memoria
       SSPBUF=LSW;
       SSPBUF=DATO;                            //Transfiere el dato a la Memori
a
       SSPCON2.PEN=1;                          //Manda bit de parada
       }

char READEEPROM(char MSW,char LSW)
       {
       char DATAI;

       PIE1.SSPIE=0;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Manda bit de arranque
       SSPBUF=SLAVE;                           //Transfiere direccion del
dispositivo esclavo
       SSPBUF=MSW;
       SSPBUF=LSW;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Manda bit de arranque
       SSPBUF=SLAVE | 0x01;                    //Output SLAVE address
       SSPCON2.RCEN=1;                         //Lee dato del puerto I2C
       DATAI=SSPBUF;                           //coloca dato en DATAI

//      SSPCON2.ACKEN=1;                        //En caso de que fuera mas de un
dato siempre
                                               //debe haber una seqal de recono
cimiento del
                                               //maestro...Pero debe colocarse
el SSPCON2.ACKDT
//      if(SSPCON2.ACKSTAT==1) ERROR(3);        //No recibio
reconocimiento
       SSPCON2.PEN=1;                          //Manda bit de parada
       return DATAI;
       }


void IICInit(void)
       {
       ERROR1=0;                                       //Clear error register
       STATUS.RP0=1;                                   //Select page 1

//      SSPCON.SSPEN=1;                                 //Habilita el puerto I2C
       SSPCON=0x3E;                                    //I2C 7 bit slave mode w
ith master
       PORTC=0;                                        //Set SDA, SCL low when
not is tri-state
                                                       //mode enabled
       PIE1.SSPIE=0;                                   //Desactiva la interrupc
ion del SSP
       SSPADD=0xA2;                                    //Direccion del PIC en e
l protocolo.
       PORTC.3=1;                                      //Set SCL high
       PORTC.4=1;                                      //Set SDA high
       PIR1.SSPIF=0;                                   //Clear SSP interrupt fl
ag
       INTCON=0xC0;                                    //Enable interrupts
       SSPCON2.ACKDT=0;                                //Permite colocar bit de
reconocimiento

       STATUS.RP0=0;                                   //Select page 0
       }

Agradezco de antemano el tiempo prestado.

Edinsson Ariza.



=====

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'Programming PIC16F877'
1999\10\10@142200 by Edson Brusque

face
flavicon
face
Hello,

   I need a PC in-system serial programmer to program the PIC16F877. Any
programmer who program the PIC16F84 will do?

   Best regards,

   Brusque

___________________________________________________________________________
| | || |\| | || || |\|\ Edson Brusque :-^= (spambrusque@spam@spamflynet.com.br)
| | || ||| | || || |||| Musician, Tech Consultant, Programmer, Developer
| |_||_||| |_||_||_|||| Rodeio / SC / Brazil / Earth / Solar Syst / Milk...
| \_\\_\|| \_\\_\\_\||| Giro In'Italia homepage: http://flynet.com.br/giro
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|__|__|__|__|__|__|__||---------------- ICQ# 15937748 ---------------------
\__\__\__\__\__\__\__\|        The SoundFont Users Group Mailing List is at
----------------------|   www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Port/6619/
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

1999\10\10@143859 by Robin Abbott

flavicon
face
FED (below) and a number of others on the PIC Ring sell programmers for the
F877. Unfortunately you cannot simply program the 877 as an 84 owing to
different program and EEPROM data lengths and the config fuses. A number of
F84 programmers can program the F877 with appropriate software, if you have
one you need to contact the suppliers.

Robin Abbott - robin.abbottTakeThisOuTspamdial.pipex.com

**************************************************************************
*
* Forest Electronic Developments
* http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/robin.abbott/FED
*
**************************************************************************

{Original Message removed}

1999\10\10@154700 by Don McKenzie

flavicon
face
Edson Brusque wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
>     I need a PC in-system serial programmer to program the PIC16F877. Any
> programmer who program the PIC16F84 will do?

The cheaper "David Tait" style printer port jobs can usually be made to
work.
P16PRO PICMicro Programmer Software Registration
http://www.dontronics.com/p16pro.html

This will allow you to test the programmer.

Don McKenzie  .....donspamTakeThisOuTdontronics.com http://www.dontronics.com

Don's Download Dungeon:   http://www.dontronics.com/download.html
Australian Electronics Ring http://www.dontronics.com/aering.html
Win $500USD Cash. Micro design contest:  http://www.simmstick.com

'16C77 versus 16F877 Programming'
1999\10\11@212112 by Bill Kichman

flavicon
face
Maybe it's just me but has anybody found any problem prototyping with the
'877?   I had been using the 'C77 as a temporary substitute until my '877s
arrived.  Had no problems with the 'C77s and things went smoothly, albeit
slowly (erase-burn-test, repeat).
But now, even though I can program the 877s in my el cheapo programmer
cconsistently, the apps just don't run most of the time, although when they
do, the run just fine.  Checked and doublechecked everything.  Scoped the
oscillator and it is sometimes cycling and sometimes not.  But it is
sometimes present even when the app won't function.  Have two different but
similar apps in test, each of which contains a 4-bit connected LCD (which
normally gives me no problems) and they both do the same thing! Ha anybody
seen this before?

Signed,

Intermittent in Pennsylvania.

Bill Kichman, P.E.
Cornwall, PA USA

'MSSP and I2C and 16F877 ? PLEASE!'
1999\10\11@230326 by Edinsson Yuliam Ariza Aguilar

picon face
Hi Folks!

I am working with the pic 16f877 and I want to request
some of you
a code source example to be able to use the protocol
I2C MSSP because
I have not been able to put it into operation.

I thank the borrowed time ahead of time.

I have made some codes but they don't work me:

void WRITEEEPROM(char DATO)
       {
       PIE1.SSPIE=0;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Send Start Bit
       SSPBUF=SLAVE;                           //Send Adrress of device
       SSPBUF=MSW;                             //Send Word High for 24LC65
       SSPBUF=LSW;
    //Send Word Low for 24LC65
       SSPBUF=DATO;                            //Send Data to position
       SSPCON2.PEN=1;                          //Send Stop Bit
       }

char READEEPROM(char MSW,char LSW)
       {
       char DATAI;

       PIE1.SSPIE=0;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Send Start Bit
       SSPBUF=SLAVE;                           //Send Adrress of device
       SSPBUF=MSW;
       SSPBUF=LSW;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Send Start Bit
       SSPBUF=SLAVE | 0x01;                                //Output
SLAVE address and read option
       SSPCON2.RCEN=1;                         //Read Data of I2C port
       DATAI=SSPBUF;                           //put data in DATAI

//      SSPCON2.ACKEN=1;                                    //only if is
sequencial transfer
                                                           //should put SSPCON2
.ACKDT before
//      if(SSPCON2.ACKSTAT==1) ERROR(3);                    //Not
ACK
       SSPCON2.PEN=1;                          //Send Stop Bit
       return DATAI;
       }


void IICInit(void)
       {
       ERROR1=0;                                       //Clear error register
       STATUS.RP0=1;                           //Select page 1

//      SSPCON.SSPEN=1;                         //Enable I2C port
       SSPCON=0x3E;                            //I2C 7 bit slave mode with mast
er
       PORTC=0;                                        //Set SDA, SCL low when
not is tri-state
                                                       //mode enabled
       PIE1.SSPIE=0;                                   //desenable the interrup
tion to SSP
       SSPADD=0xA2;                            //Adrress of PIC in the protocol
       PORTC.3=1;                                      //Set SCL high
       PORTC.4=1;                                      //Set SDA high
       PIR1.SSPIF=0;                                   //Clear SSP interrupt fl
ag
       INTCON=0xC0;                                    //Enable interrupts
       SSPCON2.ACKDT=0;                                //It allows to place rec
ognition
bit

       STATUS.RP0=0;                               //Select page 0
       }

/*******************************************************************************
**********************************************************
/*******************************************************************************
**********************************************************


Ahora si en cristiano....

Hola Amigos!

Yo estoy trabajando con el pic 16f877 y quiero
solicitar a alguno de ustedes
un csdigo fuente ejemplo para poder utilizar el
protocolo I2C MSSP porque no he
podido ponerlo en funcionamiento.

yo he hecho algunos codigos pero no me funcionan:

void WRITEEEPROM(char DATO)
       {
       PIE1.SSPIE=0;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Manda bit de arranque
       SSPBUF=SLAVE;                           //Transfiere direccion del
dispositivo esclavo
       SSPBUF=MSW;                             //Mandar palabra de direccionami
ento
para la memoria
       SSPBUF=LSW;
       SSPBUF=DATO;                            //Transfiere el dato a la Memori
a
       SSPCON2.PEN=1;                          //Manda bit de parada
       }

char READEEPROM(char MSW,char LSW)
       {
       char DATAI;

       PIE1.SSPIE=0;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Manda bit de arranque
       SSPBUF=SLAVE;                           //Transfiere direccion del
dispositivo esclavo
       SSPBUF=MSW;
       SSPBUF=LSW;
       SSPCON2.SEN=1;                          //Manda bit de arranque
       SSPBUF=SLAVE | 0x01;                    //Output SLAVE address
       SSPCON2.RCEN=1;                         //Lee dato del puerto I2C
       DATAI=SSPBUF;                           //coloca dato en DATAI

//      SSPCON2.ACKEN=1;                        //En caso de que fuera mas de un
dato siempre
                                               //debe haber una seqal de recono
cimiento del
                                               //maestro...Pero debe colocarse
el SSPCON2.ACKDT
//      if(SSPCON2.ACKSTAT==1) ERROR(3);        //No recibio
reconocimiento
       SSPCON2.PEN=1;                          //Manda bit de parada
       return DATAI;
       }


void IICInit(void)
       {
       ERROR1=0;                                       //Clear error register
       STATUS.RP0=1;                                   //Select page 1

//      SSPCON.SSPEN=1;                                 //Habilita el puerto I2C
       SSPCON=0x3E;                                    //I2C 7 bit slave mode w
ith master
       PORTC=0;                                        //Set SDA, SCL low when
not is tri-state
                                                       //mode enabled
       PIE1.SSPIE=0;                                   //Desactiva la interrupc
ion del SSP
       SSPADD=0xA2;                                    //Direccion del PIC en e
l protocolo.
       PORTC.3=1;                                      //Set SCL high
       PORTC.4=1;                                      //Set SDA high
       PIR1.SSPIF=0;                                   //Clear SSP interrupt fl
ag
       INTCON=0xC0;                                    //Enable interrupts
       SSPCON2.ACKDT=0;                                //Permite colocar bit de
reconocimiento

       STATUS.RP0=0;                                   //Select page 0
       }

Agradezco de antemano el tiempo prestado.

Edinsson Ariza.


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'16C77 versus 16F877 Programming'
1999\10\12@090758 by Kelvin Visteron

picon face
At first I could not get the 877 to work all the time when I
programmed it using a homemade D. Tait style programmer.

I downloaded some 87x programming software from the
http://www.picwiser.com site and the 877 works great now. I think it
has something to do with the config bit settings.


On         Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:12:15 -0400, Bill Kichman wrote:

> Maybe it's just me but has anybody found any problem prototyping with the
> '877?   I had been using the 'C77 as a temporary substitute until my
'877s
> arrived.  Had no problems with the 'C77s and things went smoothly, albeit
> slowly (erase-burn-test, repeat).
> But now, even though I can program the 877s in my el cheapo programmer
> cconsistently, the apps just don't run most of the time, although when
they
> do, the run just fine.  Checked and doublechecked everything.  Scoped the
> oscillator and it is sometimes cycling and sometimes not.  But it is
> sometimes present even when the app won't function.  Have two different
but
> similar apps in test, each of which contains a 4-bit connected LCD (which
> normally gives me no problems) and they both do the same thing! Ha
anybody
{Quote hidden}

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1999\10\12@093556 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
At 09:12 PM 10/11/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>Maybe it's just me but has anybody found any problem prototyping with the
>'877?   I had been using the 'C77 as a temporary substitute until my '877s
>arrived.  Had no problems with the 'C77s and things went smoothly, albeit
>slowly (erase-burn-test, repeat).

Bill,

Check your settings on the CONFIG bits.

To be compatible with the '77 operationally, you need to disable Low
Voltage Programming (LVP) - it defaults to enabled, and controls the state
of RB.3.  You need to disable the In-Circuit Debugger, which controls the
state of RB.7 & RB.6.

You _cannot_ use the same settings that the '77 had for the CONFIG word.
Depending on what programmer you are using, this may or may not be simple.

That's off the top of my head.  I know this by my own whoops.

Andy

==================================================================
Eternity is only a heartbeat away - are you ready?  Ask me how!
------------------------------------------------------------------
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andyEraseMEspammontanadesign.com  http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics
==================================================================

1999\10\12@095839 by Peter Keller

flavicon
face
How can i program the LVP-bit in CONFIG using the CCS Compiler ?
Peter

Andy Kunz schrieb:

{Quote hidden}

1999\10\12@100240 by Dan Larson

flavicon
face
I "ported" my 16C73 code to the 16F876 simply by making the
following changes:

1) changing the PROCESSOR directive to 16F876 from 16C73B

2) changing the include file at the top of the source to
  16F876.INC instead of 16C73B.INC

3) disabling LVP and DEBUG in the config word (As Andy stated,
  you cannot used the same CONFIG word.)

Other than the items above, I made no changes to source code.

Oh, and don't forget, that if you have a home brew programmer, you
need to place a pull down resistor of about 10K on RB3 to prevent
it from going into low voltage programming mode the first time you
program it since they factory default is to have LVP on.

Good Luck!

Dan

On Tue, 12 Oct 1999 09:30:56 -0400, Andy Kunz wrote:

{Quote hidden}

'ICSP for 16F877'
1999\10\12@140235 by Dave Johnson

flavicon
face
This may be a silly question, but I gotta ask:

I'm building a cable for in-circuit programming of a 16F877. But that
chip has 2 Vdd pins and 2 Vss pins. Does it matter which ones I use? (My
guess is it doesn't matter, that they're connected internally.) If anyone
knows for sure, please let me know.

Dave Johnson

1999\10\12@141704 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>chip has 2 Vdd pins and 2 Vss pins. Does it matter which ones I use? (My

Yes, it matters, and the answer is BOTH!

Andy

==================================================================
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------------------------------------------------------------------
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==================================================================

1999\10\12@150941 by Erik Reikes

flavicon
face
At 02:14 PM 10/12/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>chip has 2 Vdd pins and 2 Vss pins. Does it matter which ones I use? (My
>
>Yes, it matters, and the answer is BOTH!
>
>Andy
>

I'm planning on implementing this feature on a 16F876.  I was hoping to use
the LVP mode so as to get by with only three connections.  Has anyone on
the list actually implemented this successfully?  I will try it as soon as
time permits with my parallax programmer, but I'm not sure it supports this
mode.  It seems to me if I jumper the PGC and PGD pins to the proper pins
of my programmer and give it 5 volts it should work.

Thanks in advance.

-Erik Reikes

1999\10\12@154713 by wzab

flavicon
picon face
On Tue, Oct 12, 1999 at 02:14:49PM -0400, Andy Kunz wrote:
> >chip has 2 Vdd pins and 2 Vss pins. Does it matter which ones I use? (My
>
> Yes, it matters, and the answer is BOTH!

Where can I find more detailed info about these pins? In the data sheet I couldn
't
find any information about them. Does one pair of them is used for analog
part of the chip (ADC) and the another for digital? Or maybe one pair
is reserved for data EEPROM? Do they are shorted inside of the circuit?
I've observed problems with data EEPROM programming in my programmer,
could it be caused by the use of one only pair of Vdd/Vss pins?
--
                       Wojciech Zabolotny
                       http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab

http://www.debian.org  Linux - free OS for free people!

1999\10\12@171721 by Dave Johnson

flavicon
face
Andy Kunz wrote:

>Yes, it matters, and the answer is BOTH!
Why? Aren't they connected internally? Inquiring minds want to know :-)

Another wrinkle: I was hoping to use the same cable for a 16C774
(whenever I can get my hands on one), but on that chip the 2 pairs are
different, one pair is analog Vdd and Vss.

I should make one more thing clear: on my board, they're connected
together (although with some filtering on the "analog" pair), so my
question is really about which pins to bring out of the programmer
(PicStart+).

Dave Johnson

'16C77 versus 16F877 Programming'
1999\10\12@202128 by Bill Kichman

flavicon
face
Ok, status update:
I confirmed both you guys are correct.  When I add a resistor from RB3 to
ground, the app actually runs consistently.  unfortunaltely I need that pin
for my keyboard 4x4 matrix input and it won't run with the resistor in the
way.  I was aware of the config settings but cannot seem to  figure out how
to set them properly in P16PRO.  I am using an older version of htat
programming software and simply updated the ini file to reflect the correct
config settings(as seen in newer versions)  but it seems no matter how I
change the LVP enable bit it still  programs the same.
Can't wait till my new MELABS programmer gets here.
Any suggestions?

Bill K.
Cornwall, PA

{Original Message removed}

'ICSP for 16F877'
1999\10\12@233443 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 12:13 12/10/99 -0700, you wrote:
>At 02:14 PM 10/12/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>>chip has 2 Vdd pins and 2 Vss pins. Does it matter which ones I use? (My
>>
>>Yes, it matters, and the answer is BOTH!
>>
>>Andy
>>
>
>I'm planning on implementing this feature on a 16F876.  I was hoping to use
>the LVP mode so as to get by with only three connections.  Has anyone on
>the list actually implemented this successfully?  I will try it as soon as
>time permits with my parallax programmer, but I'm not sure it supports this
>mode.  It seems to me if I jumper the PGC and PGD pins to the proper pins
>of my programmer and give it 5 volts it should work.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>-Erik Reikes

The parallax programmer unfortunately sources the VDD though a single I/O pin
of the PIC firmware chip. There is no transistor/FET buffering and if you
look at the programming specs you will see that this condition is way out of
spec. Personally, I could not trust the parallax programmer to reliably
program (I.E. over time) the flash parts however you can always power the
target circuit to supply the 5V (as it seems you are planning) and get around
this problem.

More important to note is that if the LVP pin is raised simultaneously with
VDD, the flash parts lock-up and you cannot enter the program mode. There
must
be a delay before raising LVP. This can be done with a simple RC network
as done on the PROPIC II programmer.

If you are powering the DUT from the target board then I would think that
connecting the programmer's switched VDD to the LVP would work and solve both
problems together.








Regards,

Jim Robertson
NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS
________________________________________
Email: RemoveMEnewfoundRemoveMEspamTakeThisOuTpipeline.com.au
http://www.new-elect.com
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers.
________________________________________

1999\10\13@100218 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>Another wrinkle: I was hoping to use the same cable for a 16C774
>(whenever I can get my hands on one), but on that chip the 2 pairs are
>different, one pair is analog Vdd and Vss.

I have treat them as AVdd and AVss anyway.

No, I don't believe they are connected internally.

Yes, we changed a Parallax programmer to only put 5V on the line and
modified it to work on RB.3 in LVP mode - it works.  We are planning on
using this to burn already-installed equipment in a TV set (http://www.icommsys.com).

Andy

==================================================================
Eternity is only a heartbeat away - are you ready?  Ask me how!
------------------------------------------------------------------
andyTakeThisOuTspam@spam@rc-hydros.com      http://www.rc-hydros.com     - Race Boats
andyTakeThisOuTspamspamBeGonemontanadesign.com  http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics
==================================================================

1999\10\13@105050 by wzab

flavicon
picon face
On Wed, Oct 13, 1999 at 01:39:23PM +1000, Jim Robertson wrote:
> More important to note is that if the LVP pin is raised simultaneously with
> VDD, the flash parts lock-up and you cannot enter the program mode. There
> must
> be a delay before raising LVP. This can be done with a simple RC network
> as done on the PROPIC II programmer.
>
> If you are powering the DUT from the target board then I would think that
> connecting the programmer's switched VDD to the LVP would work and solve both
> problems together.

What does it mean that "flash parts lock-up"? Is it possible that code EEPROM wo
rks
but data EEPROM doesn't? I've observed such a strange behaviour in my programmer
(http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab/picprog/picprog.html).
I have modified the PICPRG2.2 software for 16F877, and code was programmed perfe
ctly,
but the data EEPROM was always read as "0" (I reported it to the piclist a few
weeks ago).

--
                       Wojciech Zabolotny
                       http://www.ise.pw.edu.pl/~wzab

http://www.debian.org  Linux - free OS for free people!

'Inefficient use of Program Memory in PIC16F877'
1999\10\14@094903 by David Williams

flavicon
face
Hello all,
I have a question.  I have a bunch of data that is 14 bits in size.  I'm
using Hitech PIC-C so I've placed the data in an integer.  I've done
something like this:

const int data[256] = {0x2324,0x2425,0x3233, ..... };

So I compile and I notice that in the program memory ROM the data is
stored like this:

3F24 3F23 3F25 3F24 ....

Look at all that space that could be used.  My 256 array takes up 512
words of program memory.  Now my data is only 14 bits big.  Is there
anyway I can delcare a variable 14 bits in size such that my constant
table of data that is 256 14bit words big could be stored in 256 words of
program memory?

Same goes for charaters.  If I never plan to use characters with an ASCII
value greater than 127, then can I find some efficent way to store these
7bit characters in program memory without using 1 word per character.  Ie
stick two 7bit characters in 1 word of program memory.

Note:  I don't want to use the write to and read from program memory
capabilities of the PIC16F877 because that would just cause more code to
be writen and hence more program memory occupied.  Soemthing like the
const expression which stores values in ROM is what I'm looking for.

Thanks
Dave

1999\10\14@133611 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
>
> Hello all,
> I have a question.  I have a bunch of data that is 14 bits in size.  I'm
> using Hitech PIC-C so I've placed the data in an integer.  I've done
> something like this:
>
> const int data[256] = {0x2324,0x2425,0x3233, ..... };
>
> So I compile and I notice that in the program memory ROM the data is
> stored like this:
>
> 3F24 3F23 3F25 3F24 ....
>
> Look at all that space that could be used.  My 256 array takes up 512
> words of program memory.  Now my data is only 14 bits big.  Is there
> anyway I can delcare a variable 14 bits in size such that my constant
> table of data that is 256 14bit words big could be stored in 256 words of
> program memory?

Nope. This is the standard. Each one of these is an actual instruction.
A RETLW with the 8 bit value to return.

{Quote hidden}

Well you can't really have it both ways. You can do it if you at least read
the program memory, if not write it. But if you plan to use the existing
mechanism, then you're stuck. BTW if you do implement read/write of program
memory, then the program cannot be transferred to anything other than other
16C87X family members.

This is the price of a harvard architecture machine. Data isn't really designed
to be stored in the program memory space.

BAJ

'ICSP for 16F877'
1999\10\14@161138 by Erik Reikes

flavicon
face
At 09:53 AM 10/13/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>Another wrinkle: I was hoping to use the same cable for a 16C774
>>(whenever I can get my hands on one), but on that chip the 2 pairs are
>>different, one pair is analog Vdd and Vss.
>
>I have treat them as AVdd and AVss anyway.
>
>No, I don't believe they are connected internally.
>
>Yes, we changed a Parallax programmer to only put 5V on the line and
>modified it to work on RB.3 in LVP mode - it works.  We are planning on
>using this to burn already-installed equipment in a TV set (http://www.icommsys.com).
>
>Andy
>

Interesting... I tried yesterday to use the parallax programmer to program
a 16f876 in LVP mode.  I jumpered the following connections from the
programmer : Vdd, Vss, PGC, PGD, and tied the program 'active' pin and Mclr
to 5V.  My programming software claimed there was no part there.  As a
result of our rather narrow design cycle, I have put fixing this off to the
debug phase and any changes for the 2nd turn of the board.  Are there other
pins I need to connect for the parallax programmer to recognize the part?
I'm considering just using some sort of clamp or bed of nails type thing to
go directly onto all pins of the part for our prototypes.  Eventually the
whole circuit will be potted, so I have attempted to bring the appropriate
pins out.

Is there some 'Gotcha!' that I'm not considering for LVP mode?

Thanks.

-Erik Reikes

1999\10\14@161547 by Erik Reikes

flavicon
face
At 01:39 PM 10/13/99 +1000, you wrote:
>At 12:13 12/10/99 -0700, you wrote:
>>At 02:14 PM 10/12/99 -0400, you wrote:
>>>>chip has 2 Vdd pins and 2 Vss pins. Does it matter which ones I use? (My
>>>

......

{Quote hidden}

Wups... Just saw this message before I posted my last (now obsolete)
question.  I will try delaying the tying of the LVP pin high.  I don't plan
to use the parallax programmer for production, it just happens to be the
only one I currently have.

Thanks for the advice.

-Erik Reikes

1999\10\14@164505 by Dave Johnson

flavicon
face
Dave Johnson wrote:

>>Yes, it matters, and the answer is BOTH!
>Why? Aren't they connected internally? Inquiring minds want to know :-)
An update on this: I went ahead and built the cable using only the Vdd
and Vss pair that are the same on both the 16F877 and the 16C774 (pins 31
and 32 on the DIP package), and it works just fine. Again, these are the
pins I brought out of the programmer (PicStart+): on the board, of
course, these pins are also connected to the other pair.

I'm not using LVP, either, I need RB3 for my own devious purposes :-)

Dave Johnson

'Inefficient use of Program Memory in PIC16F877'
1999\10\14@180721 by Andy Kunz

flavicon
face
>const int data[256] = {0x2324,0x2425,0x3233, ..... };

I store big tables in EEPROM whenever possible.

Just had a neat application of it.  We're doing a TV interface for an MPI
Zenith set, and I have all kinds of messages to send to the screen during
test mode.

Not having enough ROM for it, I stuck them in EEPROM (we have 8Kx8 there).
The messages going to the set can now be in any language.  We have a
"world" compatible box without even trying!

Just a thought.

Andy

==================================================================
Eternity is only a heartbeat away - are you ready?  Ask me how!
------------------------------------------------------------------
spamandyTakeThisOuTspamrc-hydros.com      http://www.rc-hydros.com     - Race Boats
.....andyspamspamBeGonemontanadesign.com  http://www.montanadesign.com - Electronics
==================================================================

1999\10\14@185439 by paulb

flavicon
face
Byron A Jeff wrote:

>> Note:  I don't want to use the write to and read from program memory
>> capabilities of the PIC16F877 because that would just cause more code
>> to be writen and hence more program memory occupied.

> Well you can't really have it both ways.

 Said it in one!

>>  Something like the const expression which stores values in ROM is
>> what I'm looking for.

 I see the problem.  Read Program Memory is most certainly how you get
the data *out* of the memory again, but how do you *code* it into the
program.  The "DB" or whatever shoves it into RETLWs.

 It's an *assembler syntax* question, not a coding one, if that makes
sense.  I don't know the answer.   If necessary, I would fiddle the
object files to get the job done, but is there an easy way provided?
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

'16F877 & I2C for 24LC65 PLEASE!'
1999\10\15@165512 by Edinsson Yuliam Ariza Aguilar

picon face
I need really quickly one source code to implement the memory 24LC65 EEPROM from the 16F877.


All the codes that I find in the net are alone to manage the I2C for software or to manipulate the memory 24LC65 from the 16F84, but to manage the protocol I2C from the pic 16F877 I don't find anything... .in adiction the 16F877 implements the protocol for firmware..    
   
I wanted to know if some of you that managed because I take working enough time with the and I don't find the way to put it to work.

Thanks.

PD. el ingles no es un idioma pagano.

Ahora si en cristiano...

Todos los c—digos que encuentro en la red son solo para manejar el I2C por software o para manipular la memoria 24LC65 desde el 16F84 , pero para manejar el protocolo I2C desde el pic 16F877 no encuentro nada....adem‡s este microcontrolador implementa el protocolo por firmware..  
 
Quisiera saber si alguno de ustedes lo manejado porque llevo trabajando bastante tiempo con el y no encuentro la manera de ponerlo a funcionar.

Gracias




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

1999\10\15@174030 by Thomas C. Sefranek

face picon face
Edinsson Yuliam Ariza Aguilar wrote:

> I need really quickly one source code to implement the memory 24LC65 EEPROM from the 16F877.

You need to fix the date on your computer!

{Quote hidden}

--
Thomas C. Sefranek  WA1RHP
ARRL Instructor, Technical Specialist, VE Contact.
http://www.harvardrepeater.org
http://hamradio.cmcorp.com/inventory/Inventory.html

'16F877 & I2C for 24LC65...URGENT!...or only 16F877'
1999\10\15@215549 by EDINSSON ARIZA

picon face
I need really quickly one source code to implement the
memory 24LC65 EEPROM from the 16F877.


All the codes that I find in the net are alone to
manage the I2C for software or to manipulate the
memory 24LC65 from the 16F84, but to manage the
protocol I2C from the pic 16F877 I don't find
anything... .in adiction the 16F877 implements the
protocol for firmware..

I wanted to know if some of you that managed because I
take working enough time with the and I don't find the
way to put it to work.

Thanks.

PD. el ingles no es un idioma pagano.

Ahora si en cristiano...

Todos los csdigos que encuentro en la red son solo
para manejar el I2C por software o para manipular la
memoria 24LC65 desde el 16F84 , pero para manejar el
protocolo I2C desde el pic 16F877 no encuentro
nada....ademas este microcontrolador implementa el
protocolo por firmware..

Quisiera saber si alguno de ustedes lo manejado porque
llevo trabajando bastante tiempo con el y no encuentro
la manera de ponerlo a funcionar.

Gracias



=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

'Inefficient use of Program Memory in PIC16F877'
1999\10\17@114747 by Myke Predko

flavicon
face
Hi David,

use the "dw" assembler directive.

ie:

data  dw  0x02324, 0x02425, 0x03233...

It will store the data in the format you want into program memory and can be
read using the EEPROM program memory read commands.

myke
{Original Message removed}

'Question on SSPCON in 16F877'
1999\10\19@141639 by Jim Main

flavicon
face
I'm trying to get a 16F877 to talk to a 24LC02B -  so far without much
success...

In SSPCON, the bottom 4 bits set up the I2C mode.  I've tried  1000  - where
clock = Fosc/(4*(SSPADD+1)) & couldn't get it to work.

Does anyone know what I2C firmware controlled master mode is (& what speed
it would run at & whether it's clock dependant)

& what does "slave idle" mean in the context of the above.

Has anyone got I2C master mode working on the '877??

Jim
---

'Question on SSPCON in 16F877, I2C Master'
1999\10\19@151655 by Bob Corkery

flavicon
face
    I am using a 16F873 in master I2C mode to send data only to a Dallas
    digital potentiometer DS1803. I have just started programming it. Here
    is my code, (mostly copied from the on-line conference for SSP from
    Microchip's web site). It is crude, does not use interupts or do any
    extensive error checking, but it is working.

    I set up SSPADD for a 100KHz clock speed with a 4MHz crystal. It works
    at 400KHz but you need lower value pullup resistors on the SDA and SCL
    lines to drive it. Don't forget the pullup resistors, since these
    lines are open collector on I2C devices.

    The DS1803 requires three bytes of info, a control byte to identify
    the correct device which includes its address, a command byte ie.
    write to Pot.#0, and a data byte.


;set up I2C Port
       bsf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 1
       movlw   0x60
       movwf   SSPCON2
;       movlw   0x03            ;400KHz @ 4MHz Clock
       movlw   0x0A            ;100KHz @ 4MHz Clock
       movwf   SSPADD
       bcf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 0
       clrf    SSPSTAT
       movlw   0x28
       movwf   SSPCON
       bsf     SSPCON,SSPEN


;
; I2C Master Write to Dallas DS1803
;
WriteI2C:
       bcf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 0
       bcf     PIR1,SSPIF
       bsf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 1
       bsf     SSPCON2,SEN     ;send Start bit
       bcf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 0
mw1     btfss   PIR1,SSPIF
       goto    mw1

       movlw   0x50            ;send control byte, identify the correct DS1803
       movwf   SSPBUF
       bcf     PIR1,SSPIF
mw2     btfss   PIR1,SSPIF      ;wait for ACK
       goto    mw2

       movf    Data1,0         ;send command byte; ie Write Pot1
       movwf   SSPBUF
       bcf     PIR1,SSPIF
mw3     btfss   PIR1,SSPIF      ;wait for ACK
       goto    mw3

       movf    Data2,0         ;send data byte
       movwf   SSPBUF
       bcf     PIR1,SSPIF
mw4     btfss   PIR1,SSPIF      ;wait for ACK
       goto    mw4

       bcf     PIR1,SSPIF
       bsf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 1
       bsf     SSPCON2,PEN     ;Send Stop bit
       bcf     STATUS,RP0      ;Bank 0
mw5     btfss   PIR1,SSPIF
       goto    mw5
       return

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Question on SSPCON in 16F877
Author:  Jim Main <.....j.mainTakeThisOuTspamEraseMENET.NTL.COM> at Internet
Date:    10/19/1999 6:47 PM


I'm trying to get a 16F877 to talk to a 24LC02B -  so far without much
success...

In SSPCON, the bottom 4 bits set up the I2C mode.  I've tried  1000  - where
clock = Fosc/(4*(SSPADD+1)) & couldn't get it to work.

Does anyone know what I2C firmware controlled master mode is (& what speed
it would run at & whether it's clock dependant)

& what does "slave idle" mean in the context of the above.

Has anyone got I2C master mode working on the '877??

Jim
---

1999\10\19@153406 by Jim Main

flavicon
face
This is very helpful - thanks!

Jim

----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Corkery <RemoveMEbcorkeryspamspamKILLspamVICR.COM>
To: <STOPspamPICLISTEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: 19 October 1999 20:06
Subject: Re: Question on SSPCON in 16F877, I2C Master


>      I am using a 16F873 in master I2C mode to send data only to a Dallas
>      digital potentiometer DS1803. I have just started programming it.
Here
>      is my code, (mostly copied from the on-line conference for SSP from
>      Microchip's web site). It is crude, does not use interupts or do any
>      extensive error checking, but it is working.

1999\10\20@045828 by Jim Main

flavicon
face
Bob,  still not having too much luck..  what values of pullup resistors for
100KHz operation?  I'm using 10K ones at the moment.

Your code:  don't think it makes much difference, but SSPSTAT is in bank 1
not bank0.  The values you loaded into SSPADD aren't correct (if you use the
formula) - but again, don't know if this would make a difference...

Jim

{Original Message removed}

'Pic16F877 Programmer'
1999\10\23@131849 by Michel Mermin

flavicon
face
Hi

I'm actually using the Propic Porgrammer to program 16F84. Now
I'd like to "play" with the 16F877.
Where can I find a free programmer for this chip ?
Thanks

'LVP of 16f877 (RB3/PGM)'
1999\10\23@140444 by Jason Muhammad

picon face
I do not know why Microchip would stick the Programming pin (RB3) in the
middle of a port (RB0-RB7)...  Why not Bit7 of a port so you would
read/write 0x00-0x7F?

Anyway, if RB3 ceases to be a GenPurpose I/O, when you read the port,
what does the Bit3 read as (0 or 1)?
Is the lower nibble Octal and the upper nibble Hex?

If I use LPV, I am going to redefine RB4-RB7 as RB3-RB6 so I can
read/write 0x00-0x7F.  I will NOT call RB3/PGM this, I will refer it as
PGM only.  Hence, PortB will become a 7pin port.  Less confusing.  What
do you think?

--
Jason
========================================
Website: http://www.execpc.com/~milsumai
E-Mail:  milsumaispamBeGonespamexecpc.com
ICQ # :  12978762
========================================
         .:::.
          ,,,
        _(- -)_
       /  ( )  \
       \_/ : \_/
        |_/ \_|
         | | |
      -TRY PRAYER-

1999\10\23@175903 by paulb

flavicon
face
Jason Muhammad wrote:

> I do not know why Microchip would stick the Programming pin (RB3) in
> the middle of a port (RB0-RB7)...  Why not Bit7 of a port so you would
> read/write 0x00-0x7F?
...
> Less confusing.  What do you think?

 I think it's a right foul-up!  As I see it, LVP is basically un-usable
and you need to use a 12V programmer and *always* disable it.

 Otrherwise regard PortB as a second PortA - incomplete, unsuitable for
parallel byte-wise transfer.

 It appears to be a truly amazing extension of their design psychosis;
like saying you shouldn't use OPTION and TRIS instructions which *are*
still perfectly valid on this processor but won't work on the only truly
byte-wide port remaining, where you probably most *NEED* to use TRIS!

 (Or will it?)
--
 Cheers,
       Paul B.

'Pic16F877 Programmer'
1999\10\23@231524 by firewall_fred

flavicon
face
I recently built this circuit and it works great with 16F877, 16C74A, and
16F84 PICS, plus dozens more I have not tried. I made some substitutions
in mine and it still worked great (transisters in place if the oc inverters,
etc.):

       http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/9620/p16pro40.pdf

I used the PicPro programming package available here:

       http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/9620/p16pr362.zip

The main page for all this great stuff is here:

       http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/9620

Hope that helps.

Get HushMail. The world's first free, fully encrypted, web-based email system.
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'LVP of 16f877 (RB3/PGM)'
1999\10\24@063041 by Robin Abbott

flavicon
face
Yes, this amazed (and really annoyed me as a programmer designer and PIC
program author). Scenix use the oscillator pins, surely Microchip could have
come up with something using the OSC pins, MCLR and the existing programming
pins ?

Robin Abbott - robin.abbott@spam@spamfored.co.uk

**************************************************************************
*
* Forest Electronic Developments
* http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/robin.abbott/FED
*
**************************************************************************

{Original Message removed}

1999\10\24@080825 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Paul (and Jason), without knowing the details of the process and the
`floor plan' of the chip, I can only speculate. RB4..7 have additional logic
for the interrupt-on-change feature as well as RB0 for external interrupts.
RA has analog and timer inputs. RC has many functions and RD and RE are
normally used for a standard parallel bus interface. I really wish they
would have used RA5 but they would probably have to sacrifice an A/D channel
and the slave-select input for the MSSP module. Obviously they had to trade
something for the capability. It would be nice if they had moved LVP to one
of the spare pins in the PLCC and QFP packages.

  - Tom

At 07:58 AM 10/24/99 +1000, Paul B. Webster wrote:
{Quote hidden}

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

1999\10\24@120350 by Dwayne Reid

flavicon
face
>  It appears to be a truly amazing extension of their design psychosis;
>like saying you shouldn't use OPTION and TRIS instructions which *are*
>still perfectly valid on this processor but won't work on the only truly
>byte-wide port remaining, where you probably most *NEED* to use TRIS!
>
>  (Or will it?)

As far as I know, TRIS works only on ports 5,6,7 (A,B,C).  So sad . . .

I really would have preferred them to have used port A (its already
incomplete - whats one more bit).

dwayne


Dwayne Reid   <spam_OUTdwaynerspamspamplanet.eon.net>
Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd    Edmonton, AB, CANADA
(780) 489-3199 voice          (780) 487-6397 fax

Celebrating 15 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 1999)

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address.
My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive
unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial
email.

'Pic16F877 Programmer'
1999\10\24@143146 by Janko

flavicon
face
www.elnec.com/pikpg_uk.htm

>
> Hi
>
> I'm actually using the Propic Porgrammer to program 16F84. Now
> I'd like to "play" with the 16F877.
> Where can I find a free programmer for this chip ?
> Thanks

'Programer for 16f877'
1999\10\28@161549 by p.cousens

flavicon
face
How do I program the new 16f877's
Are there any shareware/freeware software programs
available on the net

Please reply to me privately if possible
--
Peter Cousens
email: p.cousensspam_OUTspamRemoveMEcwcom.net  or  spamp.cousensspamBeGonespamvirgin.net
smail: 48, Yarmouth Cresent, London, N179PQ, England.


'16F877 xt oscilator problem'
1999\11\12@032011 by Leo
picon face
Hi PICer friends,

I'm using the 16F877 for the first time and I have trouble to start the xt
oscillator.

the connection on the 16F877 are:

vcc - to pin 11 - 32 wired togheter
gnd - to pin 12 - 31 wired togheter
mclr - to wcc thorught a resistor of 10K
xt osc - to pin 13 and 22 pf capacitor to gnd
xt osc - to pin 14 and 22 pf capacitor to gnd
rb3 - floating  (but have been tested connected to the vcc and gnd)

the xt are a 4 Mhz quartz

Using the blink8x.bas sample program in PBP 2.2 I compile it and I'm able to
load the hex into the pic and I can read back the code (that means the PIC
is working) but the oscillator do not start.

On pin 14 I can see with a scope a stable level of 2,6 volt and on pin 13 a
stable level of 2,0 volt .

Dear PICer friends, do you have any idea to help me to solve this problem?


Ciao

Leo


For reference purpose you can see the PBP blink8x.bas source:

i       var     byte    ' Define loop variable
LEDS    var     PORTD   ' Alias PORTD to LEDS
TRISD = %00000000       ' Set PORTD to all output
loop:   LEDS = 1        ' First LED on
Pause 500       ' Delay for .5 seconds
For i = 1 to 7  ' Go through For..Next loop 7 times
LEDS = LEDS << 1        ' Shift on LED one to left
Pause 500       ' Delay for .5 seconds
Next i
Goto loop       ' Go back to loop and blink LED forever
End

1999\11\12@053555 by Jim Robertson

flavicon
face
At 09:21 12/11/99 +0100, you wrote:

Have you selected the XT oscillator option in the config word?

Jim


{Quote hidden}

Regards,

Jim Robertson
NEWFOUND ELECTRONICS
________________________________________
Email: spamnewfoundRemoveMEspampipeline.com.au
http://www.new-elect.com
MPLAB compatible PIC programmers.
________________________________________

1999\11\12@103650 by Dave Johnson

flavicon
face
Leo wrote:

>Dear PICer friends, do you have any idea to help me to solve this problem?
I had some startup trouble with an '877 and a 4MHz ceramic resonator from
Murata. Increasing the configuration bit to HS helped (higher drive from
the PIC) but I didn't like that. A look at Murata's website suggested a
1M resistor across the resonator, so I tried that and I haven't had any
trouble since. I assume the same trick with crystal would work, it's
worth a try.

Dave Johnson

'PICBASIC-L 16F877 xt oscilator problem'
1999\11\13@024513 by Leo

picon face
Hi PICer friend,

I need to thanks all of you, for your precious support. Your suggestion have
put me on the correct way to start the PIC.

I have removed the two capacitors and connected only the 4 Mhz quartz to the
13 and 14 pins. Now the circuit run and the 16F877 works :-)

Thanks again friends for your precious help!

But the problem is not completely solved. Looking with a scope at the quartz
lead, on pin 13 stay a level of 2 Volt with a noisy of 0.2 Volt  and on pin
14 stay a sinusoidal wave between 0 Volt and 2.5 Volt. It is correct ??

With a scope lead connected on pin 13, if I touch by hand and the case of
the quartz the level of noisy increase between 1.5 and 2.5 Volt.

Sometimes try to touch and retouch the xtal case, the level on pin 13 seems
that switch in one condition and the noisy go between  -0.5 Volt and 2.2
Volt. When I release the case the noisy go between -0.5 Volt and 0.5 Volt
and after about one second the level return to the original level of 2 Volt.

But the stange is this:

I have loaded a simple program that switch the on/off all output pins and
touching the xtal case the square wave on that pin remain stable.

This phantom symptom on xtal is dued to the scope lead or is real??

Ciao

Leo

1999\11\13@035559 by Jinx

face picon face
Leo, earth the xtal case to the ground on your circuit by carefully
soldering
(don't use too much heat) a wire between the metal case and circuit
ground. Sometimes I found that a xtal needed a 4M7 resistor across it.

Jinx

> With a scope lead connected on pin 13, if I touch by hand and the case of
> the quartz the level of noisy increase between 1.5 and 2.5 Volt.
>
> Sometimes try to touch and retouch the xtal case, the level on pin 13
seems
> that switch in one condition and the noisy go between  -0.5 Volt and 2.2
> Volt. When I release the case the noisy go between -0.5 Volt and 0.5 Volt
> and after about one second the level return to the original level of 2
Volt.

'16F877 xt oscilator problem'
1999\11\13@104802 by Myke Predko

flavicon
face
Hi Leo,

Your problem is that you aren't disabling the "LVP".  Specify "_LVP_OFF" in
your "__CONFIG" Statement and everything will run fine.

I had the same problem a few weeks ago.

myke
{Original Message removed}

'CVASM v5.6 Bug with 16F877/76 Devices'
1999\11\16@021155 by Tom Handley

picon face
  Jerry, I found a bug in CVASM v5.6 when using 16F877 and 876 devices.
Basically, CVASM thinks it's a 4K device... I had some routines starting at
0800h and I moved them to 1800h. I call them from Bank 0 using the standard
LCALL/LSET pair. For example:

             DEVICE PIC16F877,HS_OSC,WDT_OFF,PWRT_ON,BOR_OFF,PROTECT_OFF,
                              LVP_OFF,CPD_OFF,WRTEN_OFF,DEBUG_OFF

     ; Call MySub from Bank 0

     Main    LCALL   MySub
             LSET    $
             JMP     Main

             ORG     1800h

     MySub   MOV     poop,#50
             RET

  CVASM generates the following errors:

     address must be from 0 to 0FBFh
     address limit of 0FBFh was exceeded

  Again, they work fine at 0800h but not at 1000h or 1800h. When I change
the device to a PIC16C77, it assembles without errors and works in the
circuit as expected.

  I'm in a bind here so let me know if I can do any testing. Also, did the
CVASM manual ever get updated with the info we discussed several months ago?
I was thinking about the text from the original Readme.txt file and
suggestions to help folks convert MPASM syntax to CVASM. Thanks,

  - Tom

PSBS: I posted this to both the MIT and Parallax lists.


------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tom Handley
New Age Communications
Since '75 before "New Age" and no one around here is waiting for UFOs ;-)

1999\11\16@155126 by Jerry Merrill

flavicon
face
Tom:

This has been fixed in CVASM16 version 5.8.  You can get this 11Kbyte file at:

ftp://ftp.tech-tools.com/cvasm16.zip

The manual updates you suggested were incorporated in Version 8 of our Pic
Tools.  This is a large file (about 1.8MBytes) but you can get it at:

ftp://ftp.tech-tools.com/pictool8.pdf

I'll post this to the Parallax list as well.


At 01:06 AM 11/16/99 , you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

Jerry Merrill

KILLspamjerrymspam_OUTspamspam_OUTtech-tools.com
http://www.tech-tools.com
FAX: (972) 494-5814
VOICE:(972) 272-9392
TechTools
PO Box 462101
Garland,  TX  75046-2101

'16F877 xt oscilator problem'
1999\11\17@110126 by Leo

picon face
Hi Mike,

thanks for your suggestion.


Ciao


Leo
----- Original Message -----
From: Myke Predko <mykespam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTPASSPORT.CA>
To: <spamBeGonePICLISTspamspamspamBeGonemitvma.mit.edu>
Sent: sabato 13 novembre 1999 16.47
Subject: Re: 16F877 xt oscilator problem


> Hi Leo,
>
> Your problem is that you aren't disabling the "LVP".  Specify "_LVP_OFF"
in
{Quote hidden}

xt
{Quote hidden}

able
> to
> > load the hex into the pic and I can read back the code (that means the
PIC
> > is working) but the oscillator do not start.
> >
> > On pin 14 I can see with a scope a stable level of 2,6 volt and on pin
13
> a
> > stable level of 2,0 volt .
> >
> > Dear PICer friends, do you have any idea to help me to solve this
problem?
{Quote hidden}

'16F877-20/P in stock at Digi-Key!'
1999\11\17@113719 by Dan Larson

flavicon
face
Just checked yesterday and noticed that Digi-Key
has over 700 16F877-20/P in stock at $12.80US
each qty 1.

Of course, mine are already ordered 8-)

Dan

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