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PICList Thread
'[AVR]: ICD'
2000\11\02@171504 by Lance Allen

picon face
Is there an Atmel equivalent to Microchips 16F877 in circuit debugging
capability?

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2000\11\02@182217 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Yes ATICE200- about $250
http://www.piclist.com/../atmel/avr/index.htm

see also:
http://www.piclist.com/../cheapucs.htm

{Original Message removed}

2000\11\03@044232 by mike

flavicon
face
On Fri, 3 Nov 2000 13:16:19 +1300, you wrote:

>Is there an Atmel equivalent to Microchips 16F877 in circuit debugging
>capability?
Who needs one when you can get a pretty-much full ICE for $200
(ICE200)?

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'[AVR]: Getting started version 4.0'
2000\11\04@154431 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
I hope this isn't TOO OT for the piclist, but at least it's all about a
microcontroller :)

I have been making available, through Dontronics and now through the AVR
group at egroups.com, an application for the AVR8515 called "gettting
started". Originally, it was pretty simple. I first wrote it to illustrate
how to set up the chip, and how to use the major on-board peripherals, but
like anything left in the refigerator too long, it's been growing.  It has
a bunch of handy routines for external devices, like R/C servos, LCD and
VFD displays, stepper motors..  Version 4.0 has all that, plus the major
additions below:

Finally, it's done. Version 4.0. I've mailed it to Don @ dontronics, I
don't know how long it will take for him to make it available. It is
available now at the egroups site (.....avrKILLspamspam@spam@egroups.com).

The biggest changes are:

The elimination of the old linear buffers. They've been replaced with
variable length circular buffers. I made them variable length, in
preparation for a dynamic allocation scheme, but I'm not sure at this point
if it's worth implementing. That's part of what I'm exploring for version 5.0

The implementation of a language interpreter, reading commands with
optional parameters from EEPROM. This also means that the program in EEPROM
is alterable, so this is a starting point for a robot or other device that
could "learn". The language only has four commands implemented, but I
didn't want to make it too complicated at first. It is trivially easy to
add your own commands, and they can be simple procedures, or they could
alter the behaviour of other parts of the system. It's entirely up to the
user. Currently implemented commands: Delay (ms), Servo position (servo)
(position), Loop, and Skip (commands to skip) I didn't implement variables,
but adding a few fixed variables would be trivial. I'm looking for a more
flexible scheme that would allow me to allocate variable memory
dynamically, but again, that's something for 5.0

There are many cleanups and improvements in the other routines as well. The
hardware assignments are easier to deal with, and I've pulled in all the
rom and ram allocations to the routines that use them, rather than having
them in "tables.asm" and "equates.asm"

It's still fast, and it uses just over half the rom (as configured) and
less than half the ram (again, as configured) In a real application, you
probably allocate only a small subset of the buffers I have in this demo,
but I wanted to make it visually "busy", so I am using all eight servos
(one is controlled by the interpreted program, one is controlled by the
random generator, and the rest simply ramp), a VFD display (scrolling the
top and bottom lines in opposite directions within the same buffer), and
LCD display with different text, but scrolling similarly, and a "Quick
brown fox" output on the serial port, plus morse code output with
randomized messages.

Given all that, the CPU is still nearly idle :)



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2000\11\04@212703 by James Newton

face picon face
Far from being off topic, the member ship and admins of the PICList decided
to add this [AVR]: topic tag **** to encourage **** people to post on the
subject of the AVR series processors on this list.

I'd like to post your demo (and any other AVR code) at piclist.com as a
start on a new AVR FAQ to complement the piclist.com PIC FAQ and sxlist.com
SX FAQ.... if there is enough interest, I'll start up avrlist.com

BRING IT ON!

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
jamesnewtonspamKILLspampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

'[AVR]: Programmer'
2000\11\11@225441 by -=devicemicro

picon face
Hi,

Where I can find an free AVR programmer on the net? Is there any difference
between PIC and AVR in terms of there application?


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2000\11\12@005956 by Jinx

face picon face
> Hi,
>
> Where I can find an free AVR programmer on the net? Is there any
difference
> between PIC and AVR in terms of there application?
>

http://www.atmel.com/atmel/products/prod203.htm

Get astudio3.exe and asmpack.exe for Win applications. I have them
but don't actually use these. I use a small program called fbprg.exe
that I don't think is at the Atmel site. It's a 3rd party DOS program that
you can use with Notepad and a very simple programmer board. Quick
and easy to use. I'll send you that and the programmer schematic off-list

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2000\11\12@024005 by Jinx

face picon face
> http://www.atmel.com/atmel/products/prod203.htm
>
> Get astudio3.exe and asmpack.exe for Win applications. I have them
> but don't actually use these. I use a small program called fbprg.exe
> that I don't think is at the Atmel site. It's a 3rd party DOS program that
> you can use with Notepad and a very simple programmer board. Quick
> and easy to use. I'll send you that and the programmer schematic off-list

Sorry, slight case of perjury. I did use asmpack - it's a self-extracting
file that, amongst other things, contains wavrasm.exe version 1.30, which
you need to assemble text into the hex file. I haven't yet needed to use
astudio.exe, which is a simulator

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2000\11\12@074333 by Jinx

face picon face
More on the Dark Side -

Simple programmer and fbprg.exe (it's also a Ham Radio page,
may be of interest to people who like Ham Radio pages)

http://member.netease.com/~tominfo/index.htm

Another simple programmer which is Win-based and can also
program the 8-pin AT22Tiny

http://jaichi.virtualave.net/avr-prog-e.htm

Other programmers, which require more parts, plus lots of other
information (beginners, projects, news etc) at

http://www.ipass.net/~hammill/newavr.htm

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2000\11\12@145731 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
At 01:43 AM 11/13/00 +1300, Jinx wrote:
>More on the Dark Side -
>
>Simple programmer and fbprg.exe (it's also a Ham Radio page,
>may be of interest to people who like Ham Radio pages)
>
>http://member.netease.com/~tominfo/index.htm


As it happens, I needed a chip programmer yesterday, because I couldn't use
my in-circuit programmer.

I built this one in about 10 minutes, and it works great.

All parts from radio shack.
I used a small project PCB, inserted between the pins of the DB25M
connector, so the whole thing just plugs into my laptop's paralell port.

I haven't had such a nice, simple, and powerful project, since my first
crystal radio :)
Also, his software is very well written, easy to understand.

Pop over to the AVR group at egroups.com, and you can download my "getting
started" code for the 8515. It's adaptable to other processors in the AVR
line.


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2000\11\12@154323 by Jinx

face picon face
> >Simple programmer and fbprg.exe (it's also a Ham Radio page,
> >may be of interest to people who like Ham Radio pages)
> >
> >http://member.netease.com/~tominfo/index.htm
>
>
> As it happens, I needed a chip programmer yesterday, because I couldn't
use
> my in-circuit programmer.
>
> I built this one in about 10 minutes, and it works great.

Reading that was a nice start to the day

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2000\11\12@161321 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
>Reading that was a nice start to the day

For me too!

I've read about it before, but I never needed to build it till now.

I've been trying to drag the local hams into the 19th century, exposing
them to SMD soldering (with normal hand tools) and microcontrollers. I
think this one is a killer for that audience. Cheap, easy, works great, and
all the parts available at Radio Shack.

:)

The Dark Side is always near..
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2000\11\12@223002 by -=devicemicro

picon face
Thank you.

----- Original Message -----
From: Jinx <TakeThisOuTjoecolquittEraseMEspamspam_OUTCLEAR.NET.NZ>
To: <RemoveMEPICLISTspamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2000 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [AVR]: Programmer


> > www.atmel.com/atmel/products/prod203.htm
> >
> > Get astudio3.exe and asmpack.exe for Win applications. I have them
> > but don't actually use these. I use a small program called fbprg.exe
> > that I don't think is at the Atmel site. It's a 3rd party DOS program
that
> > you can use with Notepad and a very simple programmer board. Quick
> > and easy to use. I'll send you that and the programmer schematic
off-list
{Quote hidden}

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2000\11\13@015622 by Jinx

face picon face
> From: -=devicemicro

> Thank you.

No problem, hope it works out for you

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'[AVR]: BG Micro'
2000\11\14@030558 by Bill Westfield

face picon face
Speaking of BG Micro, their latest flier (available at their website
http://www.bgmicro.com) seems to have quietly added the AT90S2313 AVR,
the AT89C2051 small flash 8051, and the AT89C52 (full sized flash 8051.)
($5, $5, and $8, respectively.)

BillW

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'[AVR]: Crunch is Over ???? [almost]'
2000\12\10@225124 by Dan Michaels
flavicon
face
Sorry if this was mentioned previously, but I was just
mucking around the Digikey site, and parts search indicates
they have selected AVRs in stock now.

http://www.digikey.com/

AT90S1200
AT90S4433
AT90S4434

Apparently no:
AT90S2313

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2000\12\11@055904 by Brent Brown

picon face
Dan Michaels wrote:
> Sorry if this was mentioned previously, but I was just
> mucking around the Digikey site, and parts search indicates
> they have selected AVRs in stock now.

Just out of curiosity, the word here is that Atmel AVR's and 8051's
are going to be twice the price soon because of a "shift in focus"
by the company, is this the same story everyone else is getting? I
only use their AT89C2051/4051's and for the 40 pin stuff I've
switched to Winbond.

Brent Brown
Electronic Design Solutions
16 English Street
Hamilton, New Zealand
Ph/fax: +64 7 849 0069
Mobile/text: 025 334 069
eMail:  RemoveMEbrent.brownEraseMEspamEraseMEclear.net.nz

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2000\12\11@130654 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
>Just out of curiosity, the word here is that Atmel AVR's and 8051's
>are going to be twice the price soon because of a "shift in focus"
>by the company, is this the same story everyone else is getting? I
>only use their AT89C2051/4051's and for the 40 pin stuff I've
>switched to Winbond.


Funny that compaq announced them as processor for their Ipaq pocket device.


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2000\12\11@142753 by Bill Westfield

face picon face
   >Just out of curiosity, the word here is that Atmel AVR's and 8051's
   >are going to be twice the price soon because of a "shift in focus"
   >by the company, is this the same story everyone else is getting?

This isn't likely to be the sort of thing that everyone hears about.  At
twice the price, a fair number of the AVRs would still be cheaper than the
nearest PIC equivilents, and a "good deal."


   Funny that compaq announced them as processor for their Ipaq pocket device.

The press release says compaq is using the 8535 to control the touch screen
display and power management in the Ipaq.  I wonder how many separate CPUs
are in the whole thing?

BillW

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'[AVR]: Any suggession for free, easy use AVR C com'
2001\01\11@234357 by William
flavicon
face
Hi!

I'm planning to learn how to program Atmel AVR microcontroller,
AT90S8515.

Can anyone suggess me a free, good to use AVR C compiler? Also where can
I download
it.


Thanks

William.

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2001\01\12@055514 by wzab

flavicon
picon face
On Fri, Jan 12, 2001 at 12:41:52PM +0800, William wrote:
> I'm planning to learn how to program Atmel AVR microcontroller,
> AT90S8515.
>
> Can anyone suggess me a free, good to use AVR C compiler? Also where can
> I download it.
>
There is a GCC for AVR: http://home.overta.ru/users/denisc/
SDCC also offers the AVR support: http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/

Both these compilers are free in the GPL sense (but generated code
may be used for commercial purposes).
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2001\01\12@233055 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Fri, 12 Jan 2001, William wrote:

> Hi!
>
> I'm planning to learn how to program Atmel AVR microcontroller,
> AT90S8515.
>
> Can anyone suggess me a free, good to use AVR C compiler? Also where can
> I download
> it.

There's gcc and Sandeep (the author of SDCC) is porting SDCC to the AVR. The
SDCC version isn't ready, but if it were you'd go to:
http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/

The gcc version is: http://www.gnu.org/software/gcc/gcc.html
I don't know if the AVR portion is distributed in the main gcc code. You may
have to apply a patch.

Scott

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'[AVR]: Interrupt behaviour'
2001\01\16@130005 by Attila Muhi

flavicon
face
Hi list !

Anyone who knows if the external interrupts can wake you up from power down mode even if they are masked by software. They seem to do so in my circuit, I use AT90LS8535 by the way...
Regards

Attila Muhi - SM4RAN

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'[AVR]: egroups/yahoogroups group is going away.'
2001\02\15@123228 by David VanHorn
flavicon
face
I finally got fed up with the ads, and installed MajorDomo.

KILLspamavrchatspamBeGonespamdvanhorn.org is now up.

send an email to 'EraseMEmajordomospamEraseMEdvanhorn.org' with 'subscribe avrchat' or
'subscribe avrdigest' in the BODY of the message.
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2001\02\15@130127 by James Newton

face picon face
Dave, why don't you just run it on the PICList? That is what the [AVR:]
topic tag is for. I think lots of piclist members would like to read about
AVR controllers and those that don't can just turn off that channel.

There is a lot of crossover between different microcontrollers related to
support circuits, general methods, etc... its nice to have 1900 people as a
resource.

No ads. Very capable list server. Kind and helpful admin <GRIN> and I'd
welcome any assistance you want to provide as an admin for the AVR people...

James Newton, PICList Admin #3
spamBeGonejamesnewtonspamKILLspampiclist.com
1-619-652-0593 phone
http://www.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}

'[AVR]: easy programmer + assembler?'
2001\02\15@165131 by Bob Blick

face
flavicon
face
Atmel sent me a data book and 90S1200 sample. What's the sleaziest
programmer I can build that works, and what/where is an
assembler/simulator for it?

Thanks,

Bob Blick

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2001\02\15@173703 by Jinx

face picon face
www.atmel.com/atmel/products/prod203.htm

Get astudio3.exe and asmpack.exe for Win applications. I use a
small program called fbprg.exe. It's a 3rd party DOS program that
you can use with Notepad and a very simple programmer board.

asmpack is a self-extracting file that, amongst other things,
contains wavrasm.exe version 1.30, which you need to assemble
text into the hex file

Simple programmer and fbprg.exe (it's also a Ham Radio page,
may be of interest to people who like Ham Radio pages)

http://member.netease.com/~tominfo/index.htm

Another simple programmer which is Win-based and can also
program the 8-pin AT22Tiny

http://jaichi.virtualave.net/avr-prog-e.htm

Other programmers, which require more parts, plus lots of other
information (beginners, projects, news etc) at

http://www.ipass.net/~hammill/newavr.htm

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2001\02\15@204432 by Dan Michaels

flavicon
face
JinxQ wrote:
>http://www.atmel.com/atmel/products/prod203.htm
>
>Get astudio3.exe and asmpack.exe for Win applications. I use a
>small program called fbprg.exe. It's a 3rd party DOS program that
>you can use with Notepad and a very simple programmer board.
>

Anyone know if the Atmel non-availability in the US
nitemare is over?

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'[PICLIST] [AVR] Help with small piece of code'
2001\02\15@221331 by Gabriel Gonzalez

flavicon
face
part 1 269 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)

I'm sorry for posting this OT here, but I would like to see if anybody can
explain me what this little piece of AVR code (for a 2313) is doing.

I need to port it to a pic, and I dont have any knowledge on the AVR.

Thanks,

Gabriel


part 2 3204 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream; (decode)

part 3 105 bytes
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2001\02\15@225554 by Alexey Musin

flavicon
face
> I'm sorry for posting this OT here, but I would like to see if anybody can
> explain me what this little piece of AVR code (for a 2313) is doing.

http://www.atmel.com  Appnotes

> I need to port it to a pic, and I dont have any knowledge on the AVR.

Why?^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Alexey.
Ekaterinburg, Russia

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'[AVR]: egroups/yahoogroups group is going away.'
2001\02\16@051243 by Attila Muhi

flavicon
face
Hi !

Tried to mail to majordo.... but the message bounces back. Can't find recipient....

regards

Attila Muhi - SM4RAN
-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: David VanHorn <spamBeGonedvanhorn@spam@spamspam_OUTCEDAR.NET>
Till: TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU <PICLISTEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Datum: den 15 februari 2001 18:33
Ämne: [AVR]: egroups/yahoogroups group is going away.


{Quote hidden}

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2001\02\16@131450 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
At 11:12 AM 2/16/01 +0100, Attila Muhi wrote:
>Hi !
>
>Tried to mail to majordo.... but the message bounces back. Can't find
>recipient....


Did you get in properly yet?
I've had a couple of reports of what look like DNS problems, but I know
that the authoratative servers are fine.   I did have a DNS problem a
couple weeks ago. I'd hate to think that there are DNS servers out there
that hold their cache THAT long!

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'[AVR]: Web page update'
2001\02\16@142950 by David VanHorn

flavicon
face
I'd be interested to see if anyone has trouble loading my pages at
http://www.dvanhorn.org

I've moved to a new gzip compression module.
If you have trouble loading, I need your browser version, so I can refine
the settings. I can customize how and what it compresses per browser type.
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2001\02\16@154802 by James Paul

flavicon
face
David,

Your page loaded nicely for me.  It looks good too.  I had a little
look around.  I saw a few things I will investigate a little later.
I saw some HAM stuff there.  I am KA9QHR in the Houston area.

                                      Regards,

                                        Jim




On Fri, 16 February 2001, David VanHorn wrote:

{Quote hidden}

@spam@jimspam_OUTspam.....jpes.com

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'[AVR]: egroups/yahoogroups group is going away.'
2001\02\17@053631 by Attila Muhi

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Sorry David

I still can't get in !

Attila Muhi - SM4RAN

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'[AVR]: [EE]: Reset problems - 8535'
2001\03\12@132958 by Attila Muhi
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Hi
I'm using an LS8535 qfp at 3.3V. I get reset problems from time to time, sometimes when I use the dongle fron STK200, sometimes when the application is running normally with the dongle disconnected.
I have a routine pointed to by the reset vector. It seems like the 8535 jumps to that routine on an external reset only when it wants to, not when I want it to :-<
When it goes wrong, it ends up with :
1) My reset routine not executed

2) PortC all pins high
3) PortB,2 high.
4) Rest of the ports tri-stated
5) clock osc running
If it does like this, I have to make about 15-20 reset pulses before it executes my reset routine. And, after that, the next 10-15 external reset pulses DO execute my vector. Then it is back to (ab)normal again. Of course the rest of the software doesn't work when the 8535 get stuck. However, after one of those successful resets, the software behaves excellent, rersponds to IRQ:s and whatever.
There's a .068 uF cap between /reset and gnd, and a 1k res between /reset and Vcc. Is this a bad idea ?
Any comments are useful !
Best regards
Attila Muhi - SM4RAN

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2001\03\12@161555 by David VanHorn

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>
>If it does like this, I have to make about 15-20 reset pulses before it
>executes my reset routine. And, after that, the next 10-15 external reset
>pulses DO execute my vector. Then it is back to (ab)normal again. Of
>course the rest of the software doesn't work when the 8535 get stuck.
>However, after one of those successful resets, the software behaves
>excellent, rersponds to IRQ:s and whatever.


This dosen't sound like a reset problem.

Do you have supply bypassing at the chip, and proper crystal caps?


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2001\03\13@115320 by Attila Muhi

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Hi !

I have ok crystal cap:s, around 20 pF. The leads from the crystal are as short as they can be, connected to the caps on their way.

DVcc is decoupled very near the chip, so is AVcc. AVcc is normally switched off, and is only switched on by a command from the LS8535 for power saving reasons.

Normally the circuit is in power down mode, with Xtal stopped. It is woken up from sleep by IRQ:s and then put back to sleep again after IRQ service. That works excellent - if the reset goes ok, and the cpu doesn't get stuck.
I realy have no idea of what the CPU is doing when it hangs after a failed reset. There's no entry at all in the code that could cause that behaviour.
Yes,the xtal osc IS running when the cpu is stuck. A nice, good-looking sine-wave, I checked it with the scope. 3.58 MHz by the way.

The dongle can always communicate with the CPU. The result of the reset from the dongle is similar to a manual reset.

I hope I haven't blown it with ESD !

REgards

Attila Muhi - SM4RAN


-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: David VanHorn <RemoveMEdvanhorn@spam@spamspamBeGoneCEDAR.NET>
Till: .....PICLIST@spam@spamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU <.....PICLISTRemoveMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Datum: den 12 mars 2001 22:17
Ämne: Re: [AVR]: [EE]: Reset problems - 8535


{Quote hidden}

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2001\03\13@134737 by David VanHorn

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At 05:48 PM 3/13/01 +0100, Attila Muhi wrote:
>Hi !
>
>I have ok crystal cap:s, around 20 pF. The leads from the crystal are as
>short as they can be, connected to the caps on their way.

The values you list make me nervous..

www.dvanhorn.org/Micros/All/Crystals.php
Have a read through the above article, it may prove illuminating.
Check the crystal spec. With the values of cap you list, I'd expect a
loading cap spec of about 12-14pF.
This may not be causing your problem, but I'm a firm believer in getting
rid of anything questionable before spending hours of debug time.

>Normally the circuit is in power down mode, with Xtal stopped. It is woken
>up from sleep by IRQ:s and then put back to sleep again after IRQ service.
>That works excellent - if the reset goes ok, and the cpu doesn't get stuck.

There is no "reset" when you use wake on interrupt.
You just wake up, and start executing from the int vector.
The processor I/O is left in whatever state it was in when you went to sleep.
Are you forcing a reset with external hardware, WDT, or rjmp 0000?

Hint:  I always implement a full int vector table. It's a piece of library
code I make up for each CPU I work with.
Initially, all the ISRs do is turn their respective ints OFF.  As I build
the app, I replace those with actual ISRs for the ints I'm using.  That
way, if I ever accidentally enable an int, it's shut off after one hit, and
it's mostly harmless.


>I realy have no idea of what the CPU is doing when it hangs after a failed
>reset. There's no entry at all in the code that could cause that behaviour.

If it's hardware induced, the code may not even be relevant.



>I hope I haven't blown it with ESD !

A blown device could explain a lot of squirreley behaviour.
I try never to get down to one of any device. Three is my min. One in
proto, one spare, and one for emergency.
I don't touch #3 until I am as sure as possible that I have resolved
whatever killed #1 or #2.
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2001\03\14@040607 by Attila Muhi

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Hi!

>The values you list make me nervous..

Hope I don't cause any sleepless nights ... :-)

>
>www.dvanhorn.org/Micros/All/Crystals.php
>Have a read through the above article, it may prove illuminating.
>Check the crystal spec. With the values of cap you list, I'd expect a
>loading cap spec of about 12-14pF.
>This may not be causing your problem, but I'm a firm believer in getting
>rid of anything questionable before spending hours of debug time.

I will check the cap values. I printed your doc. But, when the circuit hangs, one of few things working seems to be the osc.


>There is no "reset" when you use wake on interrupt.

I know, I don't want it either.

>You just wake up, and start executing from the int vector.
>The processor I/O is left in whatever state it was in when you went to sleep.
>Are you forcing a reset with external hardware, WDT, or rjmp 0000?

I force reset with external hardware. I use the reset to initiate the circuits and set up certain values, and to go to sleep and wait for irq:s...
>
>Hint:  I always implement a full int vector table. It's a piece of library
>code I make up for each CPU I work with.
>Initially, all the ISRs do is turn their respective ints OFF.  As I build
>the app, I replace those with actual ISRs for the ints I'm using.  That
>way, if I ever accidentally enable an int, it's shut off after one hit, and
>it's mostly harmless.

That was a very good idea. Why didn't I think of that ?
{Quote hidden}

I will start off with that complete interrupt vector table. Then, if the problem still is there, I will put my second proto together. In fact, I have material enough for 10 proto's :-)

Thanks

Attila Muhi - SM4RAN

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'[AVR]: Simple serial port project?'
2001\03\29@110844 by Greg Miller

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    I am having a very diffictult time getting an at89c2051 to send characters to a PC via the serial port.  I'm using a MAX235 (no ext components), as the RS232 driver.
    The problem is, the PC doesn't recognize anything the 89c2051 sends out (not even garbage).  I've used a logic probe to verify data is actually being sent and appears on the RS232 side of the MAX235.
    I've tested the PC port by connecting TX to RX going through the MAX235, and it checks out OK.  The distance from the 89c2051 to the PC is only about a foot, so I don't think the line length is the problem.
    I'm pretty much stumped at this point and would appreciate any pointers, advice, etc.

    Below is the program I'm using (P1_7 is used to blink an LED so that I know it's running).

#include <at89x2051.h>

//#define BAUD 19200
//#define RELOAD 253    //19200
#define RELOAD 192    //300
//#define RELOAD 250 //9600

void main(){
  int x,j;

  TCON=0;
  TH1=RELOAD;
  TMOD=32;   //Timer 1=8 bit auto reload
  PCON=128; //Double baud rate
  //PCON=0; //don't Double baud rate
  SCON=64; //Enable serial
  TR1=1;
  P1_7=0;

  while(1){
     for(j=0;j<5;j++){
        TI=0;
        SBUF='A';
        while(TI==1){}
        for(x=0;x<10000;x++){}
     }
     TH1--;
     if(P1_7==0){
        P1_7=1;
     } else {
        P1_7=0;
     }
  }
}

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'[AVR]: AT90S2313 supply'
2001\04\02@041249 by Peter Crowcroft
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I have just managed to get 604 pieces AT90S2313-10PC. DIP

600 d/c 0111
4 d/c 0052

from a company which did not know they were in short supply!

I will sell for $US10 each. EMS/speedpost included.

Subject to prior sale. First to pay for them gets them.

Please advise if interested,

Thank you,

regards,

Peter Crowcroft
           DIY Electronics (HK) Ltd
     PO Box 88458, Sham Shui Po, Hong Kong
Voice: 852-2720 0255   Fax: 852-2725 0610
Web:  http://kitsrus.com     Email: peterEraseMEspam@spam@kitsrus.com
   Number One in Electronic Kits Worldwide
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'[AVR]: Simple serial port project?'
2001\04\02@051346 by JP.BROWN

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Hi Greg!, the problem you are having could be due to the PC handshake
lines needing pulling up. Try this:

link pins 7 and 8, also link pins 4 and 6  (9 pin D type only)
or
 "       4 and 5,       "        6 and 20 (25 pin D type only)

Some PCs do not need this connection (they float to the right level)
other PCs will not play ball until these signals are taken care of.

----- John

On Thu, 29 Mar 2001, Greg Miller wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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'[AVR]: AT90S2313 supply'
2001\04\02@084706 by Chris Eddy

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Short supply??!  I am sorry if I hurt your effort (should be labeled
[AD]) but I was on ebay yesterday, and just about the only Atmel part on
there is that blasted 2313.  Not a single tiny to be found at all.  One
fellow claimed to have 5000!

$10 seems a bit oportunistic.  I am curious to know what they cost you.

Peter Crowcroft wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2001\04\02@110348 by William G. Anderson

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These are available for $7 to $8 each on EBAY and the main seller has
thousands!  $10 is much too much when the real cost for those willing to
wait until May because of backorders, are in the $2.50 to $3.50 range from
Atmel distributors depending on quantity.  To find the distributors near
you, go to the Atmel site and search for Distributors.




{Original Message removed}

2001\04\02@112101 by Graham Harrison

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Sounds like profiteering to me. Hope he gets stuck with them.

----- Original Message -----
From: William G. Anderson <spamBeGonewandersKILLspamspam@spam@DIRECT.CA>
To: <PICLISTspam_OUTspam@spam@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Monday, April 02, 2001 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: [AVR]: AT90S2313 supply


> These are available for $7 to $8 each on EBAY and the main seller has
> thousands!  $10 is much too much when the real cost for those willing to
> wait until May because of backorders, are in the $2.50 to $3.50 range from
> Atmel distributors depending on quantity.  To find the distributors near
> you, go to the Atmel site and search for Distributors.
>
>
>
>
> {Original Message removed}

'[PICLIST] [AVR] Change over from HC811'
2001\04\02@183613 by John Samperi

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Hi

I'm looking at changing over from a Motorola HC811 controller
to the AT90S-4434-8JC (Or the 8535).
I would be interested to hear from anyone that either has done
the same thing or has experience with both controllers, to warn
me of any inevitable "gotchas" that would waste a lot of my time.
We use from 1000 to 1500 per year of these controllers. I put
this question to another forum (avrfreaks.com) and only got one
response so far.
The filtering system on this list seems to be working, and it's
almost to the stage where I can monitor it without getting
swamped with stuff of no use to me. Well done.

Regards

John Samperi

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'[PICLIST] : [AVR]: AT90S2313 supply'
2001\04\03@095529 by Tsvetan Usunov

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>I have just managed to get 604 pieces AT90S2313-10PC. DIP
>
>600 d/c 0111
>4 d/c 0052
>
>from a company which did not know they were in short supply!
>
>I will sell for $US10 each. EMS/speedpost included.
>
>Subject to prior sale. First to pay for them gets them.
>
>Please advise if interested,

Short supply? I just got 504 AT90S2313-10PC DIP @ US$3,00
Perhaps you mean $HK 10 each ;) I've heard that everything is cheap in HK

Tsvetan
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2001\04\03@112223 by William G. Anderson

picon face
Forget this HK guy.  He's Ripoff City.  I wouldn't mind knowing the $3
source.  I've been paying $5 and $6 each.

Bill




{Original Message removed}

2001\04\03@125453 by Tsvetan Usunov

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face
>Forget this HK guy.  He's Ripoff City.  I wouldn't mind knowing the $3
>source.  I've been paying $5 and $6 each.
>
>Bill

The source is our Atmel distributor: CODICO http://www.codico.com
Actually I deal with their local office in Bulgaria.

Best regards
Tsvetan
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'[AVR]: Change over from HC811'
2001\04\03@180527 by John Samperi

picon face
Send this yesterday but the topic tag wasn't right!

Hi

I'm looking at changing over from a Motorola HC811 controller
to the AT90S-4434-8JC (Or the 8535).
I would be interested to hear from anyone that either has done
the same thing or has experience with both controllers, to warn
me of any inevitable "gotchas" that would waste a lot of my time.
We use from 1000 to 1500 per year of these controllers. I put
this question to another forum (avrfreaks.com) and only got one
response so far.
The filtering system on this list seems to be working, and it's
almost to the stage where I can monitor it without getting
swamped with stuff of no use to me. Well done.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                               Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
              11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills NSW 2153
                Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                       Email: RemoveMEsamperiEraseMEspamKILLspamampertronics.com.au
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'[PICLIST] [AVR}: Is this channel DEAD?'
2001\04\05@173648 by John Samperi

picon face
If anyone can read this, I'm not having any success at
getting some interaction with ATMEL users.
AVRFREAKS.COM is a web based only forum and not
very usefull. Is there any active discussion group that I could
join? I'm planning on using an ATMEL controller and I would
like to get a feel of issues that may arise by reading other
people questions and comments.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                               Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
              11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills NSW 2153
                Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
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2001\04\05@174656 by David VanHorn

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At 07:35 AM 4/6/01 +1000, John Samperi wrote:
>If anyone can read this, I'm not having any success at
>getting some interaction with ATMEL users.
>AVRFREAKS.COM is a web based only forum and not
>very usefull. Is there any active discussion group that I could
>join? I'm planning on using an ATMEL controller and I would
>like to get a feel of issues that may arise by reading other
>people questions and comments.

Well, there is this list, plus avrchatspam@spam@dvanhorn.org
Send a message to EraseMEmajordomoRemoveMEspamSTOPspamdvanhorn.org with "join avrchat" in the body.

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2001\04\05@183223 by jamesnewton

face picon face
Not too much gets posted on this channel, but when someone asks a question,
it seems to get answered pretty quick.

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PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org

{Original Message removed}

'[AVR]: Which file for 908515 flash and EPROM?'
2001\04\05@205930 by William

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face
Dear All,

I just new in AVR programming. I am using GCCAVR for compiling program
for my
AT90S8515. I searched thru internet and found a simple parrallel port
SPI download
program, BA1FB byJerry Meng at http://www.qsl.net/ba1fb/.

Now, the problem is after I compiled my .C files, it generates .EEP,
.MAP, .O, .OBJ,
.LST files. What are these files? I tried one-by-one for downloading
the flash of 908515,
but non of them work?

Can anyone tell me which file is for flash and which is for EPROM?

Thank you.

regards,

William.

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'[AVR]: Is this channel DEAD? Take #3'
2001\04\05@214551 by John Samperi

picon face
I seem to goof all the time with the subject tag!!

If anyone can read this, I'm not having any success at
getting some interaction with ATMEL users.
AVRFREAKS.COM is a web based only forum and not
very usefull. Is there any active discussion group that I could
join? I'm planning on using an ATMEL controller and I would
like to get a feel of issues that may arise by reading other
people questions and comments.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
                               Ampertronics Pty. Ltd.
              11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills NSW 2153
                Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                       Email: samperispamspamampertronics.com.au
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'[AVR]: Which file for 908515 flash and EPROM?'
2001\04\06@122337 by David Cary

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face
William <williamspam_OUTspamMYWEB.COM.MY> on 2001-04-05 07:57:20 PM was mystified by a
bunch of files and wondered
> I am using GCCAVR for compiling program for my AT90S8515.
...
> http://www.qsl.net/ba1fb/.
...
> Now, the problem is after I compiled my .C files, it generates .EEP,
>.MAP, .O, .OBJ,
> .LST files. What are these files?

You might be interested in reading the ".map" and ".lst" files.
The ".map" shows a memory map of where the compiler/linker decided to put each
functions and data block,
and (what I find most important) how much total memory my project uses. (If I
have *lots* of free memory, I'm free to adjust my speed/space tradeoff).

The ".lst" file is a line-by-line commentary on your source code, showing how
your code expanded (macros, etc.) into assembly language.

I'm pretty sure the ".EEP" file is your EEPROM data. Is it in the format your
programmer expects ?
Some programmers want just a raw binary file, others want INHX32 or Motorola
format.

PS:
I see that
John Samperi <RemoveMEsamperiKILLspamspam@spam@AMPERTRONICS.COM.AU> on 2001-04-05 08:44:53 PM
Subject:  [AVR]: Is this channel DEAD? Take #3
http://ampertronics.com.au
http://www.AVRfreaks.net/

wants to hear some discussion.

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'[avr]: Avr studio 3.2'
2001\04\22@060747 by John Samperi

picon face
I send this mail to another list, so far not much response.
Perhaps someone can help here. Thanks.

G'day all

I have installed AVR 3.2 and tried to open a previous AVR Studio 3.0
project file.
Results ? A BLANK error message screen! Great help!
It seems to work only with Vers. 3.2  *.APR files.
Fortunately I only had a test file that I was trying out,
otherwise I could get very annoyed if I would have to redo
a lot of project files. Any comments?

Second point. Has anyone tried to open any of the application
*.asm files on the CD? Both with 3.0 and 3.2 I seem to get
a ten mile long, single line file. (OK I'm exaggerating, it's only
5 miles long), obviously no carriage returns in the file. I have
tried to look for some options that would turn the editor into
a usable tool for editing the files, but no cigar so far. Any
help? I have to open the file(s) with M$ Word as a text
file and then save it as text with carriage return, before it
is of any use in the Studio software.

I would expect that someone would test the software
BEFORE sending it out, and make sure that one could
open the demo/applications files with the tools is being
supplied. After all Atmel is trying to lure new clients
with free software, NOT get them annoyed!



Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
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'[AVR]: strange if sentence'
2001\05\01@161342 by Marco Trapanese
flavicon
face
Hi!
Under here I reported a very simple code which should write on LCD 'A' if pind(1) is pressed and 'B' if pind(2) is pressed. When I try it, if I press the same switch more times, character on LCD change!!!
I don't understand why. Could anyone suggest me anything ?

thx,
Marco Trapanese

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*** C code ***

#include <lcdstk.h>
#include <90s8515.h>

void main(void)
{
   DDRD.1=0;
   DDRD.2=0;
   lcd_init(16);
   lcd_clear();
   while (1)
   {
       if (PIND.1)
       {
           lcd_gotoxy(0, 0);
           lcd_putsf("A");
       }
       if (PIND.2)
       {
           lcd_gotoxy(0, 0);
           lcd_putsf("B");
       }
   };
}

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2001\05\02@094241 by Michael Rigby-Jones

flavicon
face
Does your lcd_putsf function poll the LCD's busy flag?  If not you may be
trying to write to the LCD while it's still processing a previous command.

Mike

> {Original Message removed}

2001\05\02@094653 by Marco Trapanese

flavicon
face
> Does your lcd_putsf function poll the LCD's busy flag?  If not you may be
> trying to write to the LCD while it's still processing a previous command.
>
> Mike

thanks for answer !!!
I solved the problem, there was a problem in lcd_putsf function and also in
hardware input pins.

best regards,
Marco Trapanese

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'[AVR]: Anyone out there using the ATmega103?'
2001\07\27@010658 by Douglas Wood
picon face
I would like to talk to anyone who is currently (or has, in the recent past)
using the ATMEL ATmega103. I have a couple of questions...

Douglas Wood
Software Engineer
dbwoodspamspamkc.rr.com

Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC and SX
http://epicis.piclist.com

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2001\07\27@093931 by Tsvetan Usunov

flavicon
face
>I would like to talk to anyone who is currently (or has, in the recent
past)
>using the ATMEL ATmega103. I have a couple of questions...
>
>Douglas Wood
>Software Engineer

There are much more people using Atmel chips in the forums at
http://www.avrfreaks.net

Best regards
Tsvetan
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2001\07\27@094343 by John Samperi

picon face
At 12:09 AM 27/07/01 -0500, you wrote:
>I would like to talk to anyone who is currently (or has, in the recent past)
>using the ATMEL ATmega103. I have a couple of questions...
>

Douglas

Visit these 2 sites. You can subscribe to dvanhorn site.

http://www.dvanhorn.org, and http://www.avrfreaks.org


Regards

John Samperi

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2001\07\28@012404 by 859-1?Q?Alexandre_Guimar=E3es?=

flavicon
face
Hi, Douglas

   I have used it... How can I help you ?

Best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes
KILLspamalexgspamBeGonespamiis.com.br

{Original Message removed}


'[AVR]: Basic getting started FAQ'
2001\10\02@171404 by Kevin Olalde
picon face
I've just started to poke around the web, AVRFreaks, Dontronics, AVR Web Ring
...., but thought I'd post here too.

I've been working with PICs for a little bit now (great fun), but wanted to try
Atmel parts too.  I'm hoping to find a simple programmer circuit (like a
Tait-style for the PIC) and software so I can begin to noddle around with the
chips.  I'd like to avoid buying a kit, as I probably have all the parts I need
to get started, expect for some Atmel chips and programming software.

Thanks in advanced,
Kevin

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2001\10\02@185235 by Kathy Quinlan

flavicon
face
Hi Kevin, are you in luck, the way to program AVR's is called ISP (In
Circuit Programming) If you live in Au the October issue of Silicon Chip has
a great article on a simple programmer, and how to set the free software up
:o)

For the hardware, do a search on the internet (something like AVR ISP
programmer) wade through all the commercial crap (look at the sites as some
have the schematics, some offer etched PCB's) and you should find a circuit.
The circuit is dead simple, it has a D25 male for the parallel port, and a
2row 5pin (10 pins in total) .1" header. on the PCB is a few caps, a few
resistors and 2x 74xx244 bus driver chips.

On the Atmel site (http://www.atmel.com) go to flash microcontrollers, AVR,
Software Tools, grab the AVR Studio 3.2. If you want to run under dos or
older versions of windows, down load the AVR ISP software. I also did a
google search and found a few extra programs, like a coloured editor (IE
green is a label, cream is a definition I.E. Register 16 = TEMP)

Regards,

Kat.


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{Original Message removed}

2001\10\02@191922 by Kevin Olalde

picon face
Thanks, you're correct, in the time since I sent my query I've found at least 4
different circuits and programmers to try.  I'm in the US (Pittsburgh) so it's a
tad expensive to get that magazine.

Kevin

Kathy Quinlan wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2001\10\03@060458 by Tsvetan Usunov

flavicon
face
>I've just started to poke around the web, AVRFreaks, Dontronics, AVR Web
Ring
>...., but thought I'd post here too.
>
>I've been working with PICs for a little bit now (great fun), but wanted to
try
>Atmel parts too.  I'm hoping to find a simple programmer circuit (like a
>Tait-style for the PIC) and software so I can begin to noddle around with
the
>chips.  I'd like to avoid buying a kit, as I probably have all the parts I
need
>to get started, expect for some Atmel chips and programming software.
>
>Thanks in advanced,
>Kevin

We have the schematics of the AVR serial and parallel port programmers on
our web page http://www.olimex.com/dev
There are links to programming software as well.

Best regards
Tsvetan
---
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Development boards for PIC, AVR and MSP430  (http://www.olimex.com/dev)

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2001\10\03@082930 by Kevin Olalde

picon face
Thanks!

Tsvetan Usunov wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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'[PICLIST] [AVR-Chat] [pic]: RS485 opto isolators'
2001\11\14@013734 by David VanHorn
flavicon
face
At 12:58 PM 11/14/01 +0800, Kathy Quinlan wrote:
>Hi all, does anyone know of an all in one RS 485 opto isolator with logic
>inputs ie like a DS8921N with built in opto isolation ?? I need to opto
>isolate a device from a RS485 network, and do not want to use a seperate DC
>to DC converter to drive the DS8921N on the isolated side of the network.

Sounds like a maxim kind of thing
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'[AVR]: Programmer for ATTINY15 and 28?'
2002\01\02@070614 by 8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn_K._Nilssen?=
picon face
What kind of programmer would you need for a ATTiny28L-4PC, ATTiny15L-1PC
and ATTiny12L?
Could you use the DT006 from Dontronics with Bascom-AVR?
The .dat files in Bascom doesn't show any other ATTiny than ATTiny22.
-- Bjorn Kare Nilssen http://bjornkn.home.online.no/ old 3D stuff
  Kristiansand, Norway

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'[AVR]: Warp 13 ?'
2002\02\11@163519 by lu01ts
picon face
Hello picsters,

does anyone here use WARP-13 programmer to program Atmel AT90S1200 or
AT90S2313 ? If so could those people please tell me what the adapter
has to look like (is the adapter required ?) ? I've seen the text in
the helpfile, but did not get an idea of what has to be done !

Greets,
      Michael

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'[AVR]: 15L datasheet and instruction set frustrati'
2002\02\16@143148 by Lyle Killough

flavicon
face
Hi Listfolks,

I'm new on the [AVR] list, and I haven't been able to find anything
about this on-line, so please forgive me (and point me to some help) if
this has become a tiresome topic.  I can't imagine I am alone with this
problem!

I am wrapping up a design based on the ATtiny15L.  I am absolutely at
the end of my rope on the LOUSY documentation ATMEL provides for this
processor.

I just burned up about 15 hours discovering that 'st Z+, Rd' is not a
legal instruction, although it will compile and simulate just fine on
ATMEL's development system (ya gotta 'st Z, Rd', then 'inc ZL').
Further, if you look at the part-specific instructions on the HTML help
files, the 'st' and 'ld' instructions give examples using the X pointer,
not the Z pointer.  As far as I can tell, there is no X or Y pointer on
the 15L.  There is only 2 times that the phrase 'Z pointer' comes up in
the data sheet.  AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Does anyone know where I can get an _accurate_ instruction set reference
for the 15L?

Thanks, Lyle



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2002\02\16@155359 by H. Carl Ott

flavicon
face
Hi Lyle,
 First off, I've never done anything with the 15L.

The 15L complete data sheet downloaded from the atmel web site, clearly
shows that there are no x or y pointers. And the instruction set summery at
the end of the data sheet does not show any z+ instruction.

 The generic instruction set that is part of the assembler documentation
shows the instruction set for the entire AVR processor family. And yes I've
been bit by trying to use an instruction that was not implemented on the
particular processor I was using. But it should generate an error.

 There does appear to be an error in the assembler regarding  the 15l
 A couple of quick tests with the following test code.

.device ATtiny15
.CSEG
        st      z+,r16

does not generate an unsupported command error

If we change the device to ATiny11 or 12, it does generate an error
ATiny28 does not generate an error.

Something is wrong here.

 Not too much help, but I might also suggest the forums over at avrfreaks
for additional on-line help and support.
http://www.avrfreaks.com



BTW the data sheet I used to check the atiny15L  instruction set was
downloaded from:
http://www.atmel.com/atmel/acrobat/doc1187.pdf
And the version of avrstudio I'm using is 3.51.


regards,

 carl



At 11:31 AM 2/16/2002, you wrote:
{Quote hidden}

carl
--------------------------------------------------------
Henry Carl Ott   N2RVQ    KILLspamcarlottspamspamspam_OUTsi.rr.com
http://users.rcn.com/carlott/
--------------------------------------------------------
Non calor sed umor est qui nobis incommodat.

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2002\02\16@180343 by Lyle Killough

flavicon
face
Thanks for the feedback Carl.

I also agree that the instruction set summary at the end of the 15L data
sheet excludes X and Y, but if you look under the Help file of AVR
Studio, (I'm using 3.52), under the _device-specific_ instruction set
for the ATtiny15L, there is no mention or example of the Z pointer for
LD or ST, but it does cover LD/ST X/X+/-X, which is clearly an error.  I
erroneously believed that the device-specific instruction set in the
help file is truly device-specific.   (I'd love to be able to print the
instruction set, not just the summary, so I can scribble all over the
things that are not true.)

All of the moaning aside, this is the core of a new product line, and
there will be other issues down the road.  I am still looking for
reliable reference material on the ATtiny processor family.  Anyone know
of any books?

Lyle



> {Original Message removed}

'[PICLIST] [AVR] lookup tables'
2002\02\26@070719 by Trevor Page

flavicon
face
Hi all,

Really basic question for those of you who have experience with AVR devices.


I wish to implement a lookup table. On the AVR there doesn't appear to be an
instruction that's equivalent to the PIC's convenient "RETLW" instruction.
It seems that I need to actually have two instructions per lookup table
entry on the AVR, such as:

CPI Rd, value
BREQ an_address
CPI Rd, another_value
BREQ an_address

Am I missing something here? I feel there must be a method using one
instruction per enry, but I can't see how.

Cheers

Trev



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2002\02\26@071343 by Jinx

face picon face
LPM + Z ?

LD + Y ?

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2002\02\26@142558 by uter van ooijen & floortje hanneman

picon face
> I wish to implement a lookup table. On the AVR there doesn't appear to be
an
> instruction that's equivalent to the PIC's convenient "RETLW" instruction.
> It seems that I need to actually have two instructions per lookup table
> entry on the AVR, such as:

I recall that there are more efficeint ways than 2 instrcutions per value,
but not down to one. Look around on Atmel's website for an appnote about
'implementing table lookup on the 1200' or something like that.

Wouter

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'[AVR]: IAR EWB for AT90S'
2002\03\21@231935 by Richard Sloan
flavicon
face
Trying to figure out why constants like "STRING" are not being put in FLASH but rather copied out to RAM? Can not find a switch to change it. Running it -v1 and tiny model.

Anyone?

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2002\03\22@051000 by Douglas Wood

picon face
Try using the "flash" directive, as in:

flash tWakeUpEvent ReportEvents[] = {
EventEntry(6,0,0,cReadAndTransmit),       // 06:00 (06:00 AM)
EventEntry(14,0,0,cReadAndTransmit),      // 14:00 (02:00 PM)
EventEntry(22,0,0,cReadAndTransmit),      // 22:00 (10:00 PM)
};

Douglas Wood
Software Engineer
EraseMEdbwoodSTOPspamspamRemoveMEkc.rr.com

Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC and SX
http://epicis.piclist.com

{Original Message removed}


'[PICLIST] [PIC]/[AVR]:parsing...'
2002\04\16@094337 by so-8859-1?Q?Niklas_L=F6vgren?=
flavicon
face
I'm about to write software for communicating with a NAT 9914 gpib
interface.
So naturally I need to parse the recieved commands with the mcu(AVR90S8515)
in some way. I am currently developing in AVRfreaks gcc port (ansi c) so I
wonder if someone have any good ideas of performing this parsing in an
effective way?
Probably someone already have done something like this!?
I would appreciate all input!

/niklas

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2002\04\16@114553 by Bob Barr

flavicon
face
On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:42:18 +0200, Niklas Lövgren wrote:

>I'm about to write software for communicating with a NAT 9914 gpib
>interface.

A note of caution on the 9914 - Be sure that your hardware folks check
the connections of the data bus. When TI designed the 9914, they used
the old (DEC?)  convention of D0 = msb, D7 = lsb. It is really easy to
miss that and end up with the whole data bus reversed.

Also, once the schematic is done, make sure that the layout person
doesn't 'fix' the apparent error of having the data bus reversed.
This may not be much of a problem given the current use of CAD
schematic entry and layout but it's something to be aware of. Yes, it
does look weird to have the micro's D0 hooked to the 9914's D7 and
vice versa, but that's just the way the darn thing works.


Regards, Bob

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2002\04\16@130446 by so-8859-1?Q?Niklas_L=F6vgren?=

flavicon
face
It's ok I'm the hardware guy too! But thanks for warning, it was actually in
the
NI manual!

/niklas

-----Ursprungligt meddelande-----
Från: Bob Barr [EraseMEbbarrRemoveMEspamCALIFORNIA.COM]
Skickat: den 16 april 2002 17:38
Till: spamPICLIST.....spamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Ämne: Re: [PIC]/[AVR]:parsing...


On Tue, 16 Apr 2002 15:42:18 +0200, Niklas Lövgren wrote:

>I'm about to write software for communicating with a NAT 9914 gpib
>interface.

A note of caution on the 9914 - Be sure that your hardware folks check
the connections of the data bus. When TI designed the 9914, they used
the old (DEC?)  convention of D0 = msb, D7 = lsb. It is really easy to
miss that and end up with the whole data bus reversed.

Also, once the schematic is done, make sure that the layout person
doesn't 'fix' the apparent error of having the data bus reversed.
This may not be much of a problem given the current use of CAD
schematic entry and layout but it's something to be aware of. Yes, it
does look weird to have the micro's D0 hooked to the 9914's D7 and
vice versa, but that's just the way the darn thing works.


Regards, Bob

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'[AVR]: Warp-13'
2002\06\24@020737 by Erik Jacobs
flavicon
face
Has anyone had any experience programming a 4433 with the Warp-13?

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'[AVR]: : grue meets PIC (revenge!)'
2002\07\28@220915 by James Newton, webmaster
face picon face
source=
http://www.piclist.com/postbot.asp?id=piclist\2002\07\28\055924a

So, Kat, WHY are all the good people over on the yahoo AVR  (with
the ads and etc...) when there is an [AVR]: topic on our very own
PICList. Tell them to come on over and AVR on the PICList...

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2002\07\28@223026 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> So, Kat, WHY are all the good people over on the yahoo AVR  (with
> the ads and etc...) when there is an [AVR]: topic on our very own
> PICList. Tell them to come on over and AVR on the PICList...

Mayhaps we need to rename the list -

   SAPLIST        SX-AVR-PIC?

   TAPSLIST       Texas- ....

   SPAMLIST    SX-PIC-AVR-Mitsubishi (don't yhink that one would fly)
                                   or Motorolla?

   or        ????

                       now how can I arrive at
                       PASTRY, TAPESTRY, PATSY, SPEAKTOME ....?

               RM

                   "Every Engineer's dream - 98.9999% reliability"
                   No? :-)

                   "GMO - 98.9999% risk free"
                   No?

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2002\07\28@224732 by Patrick J

flavicon
face
> > PICList. Tell them to come on over and AVR on the PICList...

Resistance is futile.

Disclaimer:
Non SCI-FI ppl may miss the point.

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2002\07\29@010921 by John Samperi

picon face
At 06:42 PM 28/07/02 -0700, you wrote:
>source=
>http://www.piclist.com/postbot.asp?id=piclist\2002\07\28\055924a
>
>So, Kat, WHY are all the good people over on the yahoo AVR  (with
>the ads and etc...) when there is an [AVR]: topic on our very own
>PICList. Tell them to come on over and AVR on the PICList...

I think I'm subscribed to your AVR list but no-one is there!
Are the lights on? Helloooo.

p.s. of course I'm subscribed how else would I get this mail.
Oh I just realised it's Monday!

Regards

John Samperi

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2002\07\29@062616 by Katinka Mills

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On Mon, 29 Jul 2002 09:42, you wrote:
> source=
> http://www.piclist.com/postbot.asp?id=piclist\2002\07\28\055924a
>
> So, Kat, WHY are all the good people over on the yahoo AVR  (with
> the ads and etc...) when there is an [AVR]: topic on our very own
> PICList. Tell them to come on over and AVR on the PICList...
>
> ---
> James Newton: PICList.com webmaster, former Admin #3
> RemoveMEjamesnewtonKILLspamspamRemoveMEpiclist.com  1-619-652-0593 phone
> http://www.piclist.com/member/JMN-EFP-786
> PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com

Hi James,

It was ment to be a back-up for a private email server, but not many ppl
followed the leaders back to the original server when it came back up, so the
Yahoo one just seems to keep on going.

(real reason I guess we do not want to start a holy war as we all know the sx
and AVR are better than the pic ;o)

Regards,

Kat.

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2002\07\29@071618 by Russell McMahon

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flavicon
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> > > PICList. Tell them to come on over and AVR on the PICList...
>
> Resistance is futile.
>
> Disclaimer:
> Non SCI-FI ppl may miss the point.

I liked:

   We are the Borg of Pentium.
   Division is Futile
   You will be Approximated.



           RM

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'[AVR]: Wondering about the avr...'
2002\08\24@065942 by Jan Malina
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Been looking at pics mostly for microcontroler work, but i stumbled accros
the atmel ones, and i wonder, what are the strong/weak points of them
compared to the PIC microcontrolers? as they do seem cheaper...

Jan

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2002\08\24@094651 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 10:38:31AM +0200, Jan Malina wrote:
> Been looking at pics mostly for microcontroler work, but i stumbled accros
> the atmel ones, and i wonder, what are the strong/weak points of them
> compared to the PIC microcontrolers? as they do seem cheaper...

I'll take a crack:

AVR Pros
--------
* Cost effective
* No paging/banking issues
* Flash based w/ simple programming hardware
* Industry standard Intel 8051 ISA
* Reasonable program memory, I/O, and RAm resources
* Truly free unlimited use/resources C compiler

AVR Cons
--------
* Perception of lack of availabilty. It was a reality in the past so it had
 a kernel of truth. Probably scared off a lot of developers permanently.

PIC Pros
--------
* Cost effective. Mchip has an amazing way of adding more but reducing cost.
* Flash/EPROM based w/ simple programming hardware
* Industry standard PIC ISA
* Reasonable program memory, I/O, and RAM resouces
* Fast execution of one instruction per cycle
* True RISC ISA w/ only 35 instructions for the 16F midrange family
* Once in production very high availability and longevity
* Industry standard free development environment: MPLAB
* Access to one of the greatest PIC resources, the PICLIST ;-)

PIC Cons
--------
* The funky architecture: banking
* The funky architecture: paging
* The funky architecture: RMW instructions on I/O ports
* The funky architecture

You really can't lose. It just that you'll have a different set of
resources to use if you pick one over the other. Personally I picked the
PIC and stuck to it simply because there'd be a heavy cost to switching and
there's nothing in the cost profile that's significant enough to warrant a
change.

Good Luck.

BAJ

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2002\08\24@114056 by Geo

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On 24 Aug 2002, at 9:00, Byron A Jeff wrote:

> AVR Pros
> --------
You forgot
* Fast execution of one instruction per cycle

I'll add---
Hardware UART on 20 pin AT90S2313
Easy reading from 'program' memory (LPM instruction)
16 general purpose registers including three 16 bit pointers with all the auto
inc/dec etc

> AVR Cons
> --------
> * Perception of lack of availabilty. It was a reality in the past so it had
>   a kernel of truth. Probably scared off a lot of developers permanently.
Agreed - I had to design a PCB dual 20pin/40 pin to take 2313/4414 when the
2313 disappeared for a few months.
No ADD immediate - you have to use SUBI with a negative number - not very
intuitive.

George Smith

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2002\08\24@114242 by mike

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On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 09:00:21 -0400, you wrote:

>On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 10:38:31AM +0200, Jan Malina wrote:
>> Been looking at pics mostly for microcontroler work, but i stumbled accros
>> the atmel ones, and i wonder, what are the strong/weak points of them
>> compared to the PIC microcontrolers? as they do seem cheaper...
>
>I'll take a crack:
>
>AVR Pros
>--------
>* Cost effective
>* No paging/banking issues
>* Flash based w/ simple programming hardware
>* Industry standard Intel 8051 ISA
>* Reasonable program memory, I/O, and RAm resources
>* Truly free unlimited use/resources C compiler
Uart TX and RX can be enabled seperately
UART can do high baudrates at low clocks
>AVR Cons
>--------
>* Perception of lack of availabilty. It was a reality in the past so it had
>  a kernel of truth. Probably scared off a lot of developers permanently.
High power consumption at 5V
Non-consistent interrupt response time (can be a problem with timer
ints)
EEPROM can get corrupted in brownout
Lower output drive than PICs
Inconsistent skip/branck instructions (some times you use skips,
sometimes you use branches, and they can only branch +/-128 bytes,
leading to spaghetti code...)
No immediate XOR
Will not wake from sleep on an edge (needs input held til CPU wakes
up)

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2002\08\24@114402 by mark

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On 24 Aug 2002 at 9:00, Byron A Jeff wrote:

> PIC Pros
> --------
> * Cost effective. Mchip has an amazing way of adding more but reducing cost.
> * Flash/EPROM based w/ simple programming hardware
> * Industry standard PIC ISA
> * Reasonable program memory, I/O, and RAM resouces
> * Fast execution of one instruction per cycle

This one would be in the ATMEL Pros.

--------------------
Marcelo Puhl
http://py3ss.cjb.net
--------------------

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2002\08\24@153608 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> AVR Pros
> * Industry standard Intel 8051 ISA

??? AVR is an ISA of its own, an way better IMHO than either 8051 or PIC
(-12 or -14)


> PIC Pros
> * Industry standard PIC ISA

??? Who's standard? If that is a standard (at least then it are three
standards: pic-12, pic-14, pic-16, maybe I missed a few because they
don't flash) then Jal is gona be an industry standard too!

> You really can't lose.

Can't disagree with that.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2002\08\24@180010 by Dave Tweed

face
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Byron A Jeff <byron.....spamCC.GATECH.EDU> wrote:
> I'll take a crack:
>
> AVR Pros
> --------
> * Industry standard Intel 8051 ISA

Don't confuse the Atmel 89xxxx parts (8051 ISA) with their 90Sxxxx and
"mega" series; only the latter two are AVR ISA.

-- Dave Tweed

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2002\08\24@180017 by Dave Tweed

face
flavicon
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Mike Harrison <spam_OUTmikespamTakeThisOuTWHITEWING.CO.UK> wrote:
> >AVR Cons
> >--------
> High power consumption at 5V
> Non-consistent interrupt response time (can be a problem with timer ints)

What causes that?

Several years ago, I tried to prototype an application on a 90S1200 in
which I needed to take precisely-timed samples of the output of the analog
comparator. I could never get this to work right and eventually gave up on
trying to use the AVR. Which is too bad, because in many other respects it
was the ideal chip for the job.

-- Dave Tweed

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2002\08\24@180232 by fred jones

picon face
I didn't consider atmel when I was looking because at the time they were
tough to get.  Aparently they aren't anymore.  My only complaint about PICs
is the bank/page switching.  I can't tell you how many times that has bitten
me.  It may be true that PICs have fast single cycle instructions, but my
20mhz is divided by 4 so am I really seeing single cycle execution?  I feel
like I'm giving up at least 4 for every instruction.  Then add up all the
extra page and bank switching commands that are extra time consuming
instructions and I'm not sure I've gained anything.  If my 16F877 didn't
require the switching, I'd have no complaints.
Good luck,
Fred


{Quote hidden}

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2002\08\24@194949 by Jinx

face picon face
> me.  It may be true that PICs have fast single cycle instructions,
> but my 20mhz is divided by 4 so am I really seeing single cycle
> execution?  I feel like I'm giving up at least 4 for every instruction

An 8MHz AVR is faster than a 20MHz PIC, as the PIC has a /4
clock system, so is effectively running at 5MHz. I'd be interested
to know if there are any bench mark routine comparisons around
of AVR vs PIC for task completion in "real world" applications

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2002\08\24@195004 by Byron A Jeff

face picon face
On Sat, Aug 24, 2002 at 02:25:22PM -0700, Dave Tweed wrote:
> Byron A Jeff <KILLspambyronspamTakeThisOuTCC.GATECH.EDU> wrote:
> > I'll take a crack:
> >
> > AVR Pros
> > --------
> > * Industry standard Intel 8051 ISA
>
> Don't confuse the Atmel 89xxxx parts (8051 ISA) with their 90Sxxxx and
> "mega" series; only the latter two are AVR ISA.

Thanks for the clarification Dave. I thought I was going crazy.

But as you all well know I'm a PicDude (like Neil ;-) So I really wasn't
aware that the 90s and Mega part had changed ISAs.

So what's the target for the free AVR C Compiler?

BAJ

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2002\08\24@195058 by mike

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On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 14:25:35 -0700, you wrote:

>Mike Harrison <RemoveMEmikespamspamSTOPspamWHITEWING.CO.UK> wrote:
>> >AVR Cons
>> >--------
>> High power consumption at 5V
>> Non-consistent interrupt response time (can be a problem with timer ints)
>
>What causes that?
Variable-length instructions. For example, if you set up a timer interrupt on a PIC, it occurs with
rock-solid regularity. With an AVR there will be jitter - I think up
to 3 cycles, as the interrupt latency is longer if the foreground task
is executing a longer instruction. As AVR instructions can take 1, 2,
3 or 4 cycles. This will only be an issue in certain types of
application, where regular timing off interrupts (e.g. generating
external waveforms) is important.
Although some PIC instructions take 2 cycles, the pipelining behaviour
ensure that interrupt latency from internal-clock-generated interrupts
is consistent. .of course the AVR's multiple interrupt vectors and better
context-saving is MUCH MUCH nicer than the PIC for handling multiple
interrupt sources.
>Several years ago, I tried to prototype an application on a 90S1200 in
>which I needed to take precisely-timed samples of the output of the analog
>comparator. I could never get this to work right and eventually gave up on
>trying to use the AVR. Which is too bad, because in many other respects it
>was the ideal chip for the job.
>
>-- Dave Tweed

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2002\08\24@195105 by mike

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Unless you're really hammering things, it is often the case that the
1-cycle thing isn't much of an advantage, for example if you can do it
on a 4MHz pic, a 1MHz AVR would be _roughly_ equivalent, but you try
finding a cheap 3-terminal 1MHz ceramic resonator...! You end up using
a higher clock than necessary, at the expense of power.  On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 16:50:21 -0500, you wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\08\24@224100 by Mike Singer

picon face
   ATmega169: Low power LCD device

Among the brand new features in this device is a LCD interface! (25x4). The Device is only available in a 64-pin TQFP, and have 53 general IO lines and in addition a input only pin is added to the RESET pin. (making it the AVR with most IO lines!)
Another interesting feature is the possibility of generating interrupt on 17 external pins! This is 5 more than ATtiny26 which rank #2 on the external interrupts rating. The memories are 16kB Flash, 512B EE and 1kB SRAM, in other words a standard 16k memory configuration.
Another very interesting feature is that this device runs @ 1.8V and contains an ADC. Because of the low voltage, the internal voltage reference on this device is 1.1V compared to 2.56V on all other AVRs.
The ATmega169 is also very power efficient. From the datasheet: -Active Mode:    1 MHz, 1.8V: 300µA   32 kHz, 1.8V: 20µA (including Oscillator)   32 kHz, 1.8V: TBD (including Oscillator and LCD) -Power-down Mode:    0.5µA at 1.8V
http://www.avrfreaks.net/Devices/devices.php?action=1&devid=71

-------------------------------

Mike.

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2002\08\25@070055 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> An 8MHz AVR is faster than a 20MHz PIC, as the PIC has a /4
> clock system, so is effectively running at 5MHz. I'd be interested
> to know if there are any bench mark routine comparisons around
> of AVR vs PIC for task completion in "real world" applications

I would guess that the AVR would lead in arithmetic and RAM->RAM
activities, while the PICs would lead in I/O intesive operations. So you
should take great care defining a "real world" application, and even
more care interpreting the results.

BTW for true speed nothing beats an SX at 75 MHz (no /4) - OK, an SX at
100 MHz but those are no longer sold.

Wouter van Ooijen

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2002\08\25@073039 by Katinka Mills

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [PICLISTKILLspamspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Wouter van Ooijen
> Sent: Sunday, 25 August 2002 6:59 PM
> To: spam_OUTPICLIST@spam@spamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [AVR]: Wondering about the avr...
>
>
> > An 8MHz AVR is faster than a 20MHz PIC, as the PIC has a /4
> > clock system, so is effectively running at 5MHz. I'd be interested
> > to know if there are any bench mark routine comparisons around
> > of AVR vs PIC for task completion in "real world" applications
>
> I would guess that the AVR would lead in arithmetic and RAM->RAM
> activities, while the PICs would lead in I/O intesive operations. So you
> should take great care defining a "real world" application, and even
> more care interpreting the results.

Why would you say that AVR is no a leader in I/O intensive operations ?

I have no problems doing most things on an AVR, I actully use an AT90S8515
running at 8Mhz to merge and transmit the merged data stream of DMX 512,
running at 250Kbps.

Regards,

Kat.

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2002\08\25@074327 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
IIRC (has been a long time) it takes a few AVR instructions to set or
celar a single output pin (also to decide on the value of a single pin?)

Wouter

> Why would you say that AVR is no a leader in I/O intensive
> operations ?

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2002\08\25@081111 by Katinka Mills

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [TakeThisOuTPICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Wouter van Ooijen
> Sent: Sunday, 25 August 2002 7:43 PM
> To: KILLspamPICLIST.....spamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [AVR]: Wondering about the avr...
>
>
> IIRC (has been a long time) it takes a few AVR instructions to set or
> celar a single output pin (also to decide on the value of a single pin?)

Ummmm to set or clear a port pin, you say SBI to set a bit, CBI to clear a
bit.

I can test a pin with a single instruction too SBIC is skip if bit in IO is
cleared and SBIS is skip if bit in IO is wet.

Regards,

Kat.

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2002\08\25@084240 by Roman Black

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Jinx wrote:

> An 8MHz AVR is faster than a 20MHz PIC, as the PIC has a /4
> clock system, so is effectively running at 5MHz. I'd be interested
> to know if there are any bench mark routine comparisons around
> of AVR vs PIC for task completion in "real world" applications


Didn't Microchip claim "2:1 code compression and
UP TO a 2:1 speed improvement (at 10MHz) over other
8-bit microcontrollers in their class"??

I assume they mean a 10MHz PIC is "up to" twice as
fast as the average micro in the "class" as they
couldn't claim to be twice as fast as the average
10MHz micro (which would mean 8 times as fast!?)
:o)
-Roman

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2002\08\25@093933 by Pic Dude

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Whereas I've never needed to run a pic at max frequency (nothing I
do has been that speed critical), I can see this non-div-by-4 clock
as being useful for getting the max speed out of a processor while
meeting the FCC 1.705Mhz exemption threshold.

Cheers,
-Neil.



> {Original Message removed}

2002\08\25@093937 by Pic Dude

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> But as you all well know I'm a PicDude (like Neil ;-)

Woo-hoo!  Honorable mention!
-Neil.

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2002\08\25@133238 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
Hej Wouter van Ooijen. Tack för ditt meddelande 12:43 2002-08-25 enligt nedan:
>IIRC (has been a long time) it takes a few AVR instructions to set or
>celar a single output pin (also to decide on the value of a single pin?)

The other way around!

One instr on AVR.

On PIC often a mirror register is to be used for i/o because of the dreaded read-mod-write is reading from pins, possibly reading in a transient into otput registers if you midify an output.  Thus at least three instr is needed on PIC making it much slower.  Only safe way is to modufy in memory, then copy that whole byte to output.

The AVR read-mod-write from output _Latch_ ignoring actual pin level.

/Morgan

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2002\08\25@142403 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Pic Dude wrote:

>Whereas I've never needed to run a pic at max frequency (nothing I
>do has been that speed critical), I can see this non-div-by-4 clock
>as being useful for getting the max speed out of a processor while
>meeting the FCC 1.705Mhz exemption threshold.

By the way what is the status of internal clock ? If one takes a 12C508A
f.ex. and uses internal RC then what clock frequency does it run on for
FCC purposes ? none ? In my experience a poorly decoupled switching stage
using a fet makes much more noise than a PIC in such a configuration.

Peter

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2002\08\25@152726 by Jim

flavicon
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  "If one takes a 12C508A  f.ex. and uses internal
   RC then what clock frequency does it run on for
   FCC purposes ?"

Gee, I can see major spurs (spurious) being created
at the 'clock' frequency (what ever f the proc core is
clocked at), determined by whatever the RC combo works
that out to be, and if you *fail* to think that just
because a uP w/o a crystal *has* no oscillator then it
will be the first visit by the FCC in one of their field
enforcement bureau vans with a spectrum analyzer that
points out the errors of your ways ...

If in doubt, "range check it" ...

**Seriously** -

- the PIC with everything on-board has GOT to be the one
of the cleanest uPs on the market. I have a Z80 design
that spews garbage EVERYWHERE - but it's not marketed
or sold so I can get away with it. It creates noticable
'spurs' (carriers) throughout the HF spectrum and even
causes noticable herring bone patters on VHF-Low TV
channels ... the Z80 design uses every peripheral IC in
the Z80 family plus RAM and EPROM IC. The board design
is only two-sided  w/no Ground plane and the traces
are run nearly everywhere!

Ground and power are .1" parallel buses running under
each IC, joining together to the main .1" bus. Bypass
caps are present at each IC.

It is also very noticable *which* routines are running
in the code - there are several "phase-locked loops"
in software that lock onto externally supplied
data (Motorola trunking signals) and so the CPU
is constantly servicing interrupts due to timers
and edge transitions, perfroming timed scanning of
keypad and updating data to LCD display *desides*
doing error det and corr for a rate 1/2 convolutional
data decoder and a block parity checker.


RF Jim

   "Our ability to manufacture fraud has exceeded
    our  ability to detect it."

    - Al Pacino as Viktor Taransky in the movie 'Simone'


{Original Message removed}

2002\08\25@162310 by Peter L. Peres

picon face
On Sun, 25 Aug 2002, Jim wrote:

>   "If one takes a 12C508A  f.ex. and uses internal
>    RC then what clock frequency does it run on for
>    FCC purposes ?"
>
>Gee, I can see major spurs (spurious) being created
>at the 'clock' frequency (what ever f the proc core is
>clocked at), determined by whatever the RC combo works
>that out to be, and if you *fail* to think that just

Of course one has proper decoupling. I was unable to measure noise at the
suspected clock frequency with a scope. Maybe there is enough signal to
look with a spectrum analyzer. I was looking at the Vcc node with
capacitive coupling on the lowest scale my scope has (5mV/div) with 1:1
probe. Decoupling was 10uF tantalum + 0.1uF chip ceramic on very short
leads. I tried to put a choke in series with the supply with the same
result. Pretty good imho. The PIC was running a simple program that
outputs 50kHz signals to drive a pair of mosfets. These were not connected
when I did the measurement. Tiny 50kHz 'blips' were present corresponding
to the flanks of the 50kHz signals but no trace of 4MHz or 1MHz could be
seen.
{Quote hidden}

I once built one of those 16F84+LCD counters (I still have it and use it
sometimes). It uses the resistor gate 'switch' scheme with two sections of
a HC00 biased in the linear region as preamp. With this I can see hash on
UHF TV when the box is near the TV cable. The hash occurs when the PIC
clocks out the prescaler. It cannot be produced by the HC00 (whose input
is shorted at the time of measurement with a 50 ohm plug). The circuit is
in a plastic box and is breadboarded. The fast edges on the PIC output
clocking the prescaler are sneaking out ... there is no trace of
oscillator noise/hash/moire (the osc is built tight and has a wire loop as
guard around its parts on the circuit side, the crystal can is grounded).

Peter

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2002\08\25@173951 by Pic Dude

flavicon
face
I believe the FCC refers to the max frequency used anywhere
in the circuit, so internal frequency would matter here.

Cheers,
-Neil.



> {Original Message removed}

2002\08\26@101902 by mike

flavicon
face
Does the exemption include harmonics... seems pretty meaningless if
not.... I imagine a 1MHz PIC driving 74AC series logic with long
tracks on the output would radiate way more than a 4MHz pic on its own
with similarly long tracks....
On Sun, 25 Aug 2002 17:37:40 -0400, you wrote:

>I believe the FCC refers to the max frequency used anywhere
>in the circuit, so internal frequency would matter here.
>
>Cheers,
>-Neil.
>
>
>
>> {Original Message removed}

2002\08\27@202844 by Max Foo

flavicon
face
I'd stay clear of the atmel's avr.
have you looked at Atmels stock price (about $2)
compared to Microchip($20 something)
just a matter of time til atmel declares chapter 11
now do you want to be hold a worthless avr chip with no tech support?

let the flames begin ;)


On Sat, 24 Aug 2002 10:38:31 +0200, you wrote:

>Been looking at pics mostly for microcontroler work, but i stumbled accros
>the atmel ones, and i wonder, what are the strong/weak points of them
>compared to the PIC microcontrolers? as they do seem cheaper...
>
>Jan

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'[PIC][AVR]: Cant find info on AVR vs. PIC Please '
2002\09\11@114650 by Matt Johnson
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I come from a background of Basic Stamps and want to get into some more
advanced microcontrollers. I am having a terrible time trying to find some
comprehensive comparisons of AVR technologies vs. the PIC. I want to make
sure I make the right choice before investing time or money into one or
the other.

I have searched the archives and just get unrelated search results but I
am sure this topic has come up before. Can anyone steer me in the right
direction?

- Matt

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2002\09\11@122621 by Mike Singer

picon face
PIC is better since it is supported by the PICList :-)

Mike.

Matt Johnson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2002\09\11@135909 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
I don't recall a really definitive document that covers all the ins and
outs.

Some of the basic differences are (not including atmega or arm thumb,
since they are fundamentally different):
PIC takes four clock cycles to execute one instruction (18 has PLL so
one external clock cycle will execute one instruction now), most go to
20MHz and do 5mips, 18 series with pll go to 40MHz and can do 10mips.
AVR does one instruction per cycle, but generally doesn't go above 12MHz
- therefore 12mips.

PIC has, by today's standards, an odd instruction set partly due to its
design, partly due to backwards compatability.  Many people coming from
another uC or uP have some difficulty remembering the quirks of the code
until they get used to it.
AVR is essentially an 8051 core and has what many consider to be an
industry standard instructon set.

PIC has a large set of  products with many various peripherals, nearly
all of which are available to hobbiests in ones and twos for low costs
from 'regular' hobby sources.
AVR has a small set of devices with normal peripherals, their line is
not completely represented by 'regular' hobby sources but you can
usually still buy low quantities of the less common controllers from
Arrow and the larger industry sources.  Lead time can be more an issue
with atmel, but costs can be lower as well.

PIC includes both eprom (non-eraseable) and flash chips in their line.
AVR is all flash.

PIC's manufacturer, Microchip, has a very small focus.  They do
controllers, and some analog, and some memory.  They are branching out
into other areas, but have kept to fairly simple straightforward
products.  They own their own fab (fabs?  I think they just purchased
another recently...) and are using older, cheaper processes to control
costs.
AVR's manufacturer, ATMEL, has a fairly broad focus.  Their flash memory
business, IIRC, outsells their microcontroller business.  The AVR has
become unavailable for short periods of time to the small quantity
market because their fabs are producing flash which was being sold
faster than they could make it, and the controllers they did have were
promised to larger manufacturers, not hobby channels.  I've heard this
is largely resolved, but that could simply be because other
manufacturers started pumping out the flash.  In other words the
fundamental problem may still remain, but could be hiding.

Microchip tends to announce future products a year or two before they
become available to hobbiests.  When their website says that something
is 'in production' it may still take another 6 months for suppliers to
stock it.
Atmel - I am not familier with their marketting strategy.

Microchip documentation is one of the best available, hands down.  There
are still minor issues, and as their product line grows their
documentation has seemed to become less well maintained (for instance,
there are still charts marked 'preliminary' on the final f8xx datasheet
several years after it became available to the hobbiest market!)  There
are a few tables (notably the SPBRG tables) which are incorrect.  Since
the processors are similar large sections are copied from one generation
to the next.  So far I've never found an innaccuracy in the text and
formulas, but some tables are suspect.  The documentation is reasonably
complete (large) and the only item they've left out which is useful is
the debugging registers and vector.  For the f8xx series this is in
another document.  No one has found them for the 18 series though.
Atmel documentation is standard in the industry, and I've found is not
as complete as Microchip's.

Microchip seems to have done a lot of work on application notes, there
are not as many notes for atmel's processors.

There still is no free C compiler for the PIC line.  Scott Dattallo is
working on porting the small device c compiler to the midrange (16
series), but it won't be very helpful for the high end (18) or low end
(12, 14, 15).  There are several packages that are inexpensive by
industry standards (c2c, ccs, hitech, cc5x) and one which is free for
non commercial use up to 1k of instructions(cc5x).  None of them provide
one compiler for all pics, instead deviding it up into two or more sets
(low and midrange 12-16, 17, 18) and I suspect the DSPic will require a
different compiler as well.
The GCC compiler has been ported to the AVR and is freely available.
Because of this there are few other AVR compilers, and those that do
exist are high performance (and high cost).  Part of the reason for the
compiler availability is that the AVR is so similar to the 8051, for
which existed a GCC port, and the standard instruction set which was
well suited to the C language.  The PIC is rather ill-suited to the C
language and there are lots of nasty hacks to make it work well.

The only other metric which I suspect has any bearing on your decision
is the code space available in eithe chip.  A quick peek shows that the
avr has up to 8k of code space - just remember that each instruction
(IIRC) takes two bytes.  The PIC typically lists code space in two ways,
one in KB, the other in number of instructions. (so a 16KB 18f pic holds
8k of instructions).

The atmega is a valid AVR as well, and you should take that into
account.  It appears that the speed on some AVRs is 16MHz, which is
still 50% faster than the fastest pic.  Like Intel and AMD you can't
compare them on clock speed alone, but the clock speed is still a fairly
good indication of possible performance.

What this all boils down to is it pretty much doesn't matter.  You can
buy chips for both and wire up simple parallel port programmers, use the
free assemblers from both and try them both out for under $20.  Go to
the AVR list and see what kind of comparison they make.  In the end you
ought to choose one that has the support system you need.

-Adam

Matt Johnson wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\09\11@142705 by Katinka Mills

flavicon
face
Hi all,

My comments inbetween Adam's

{Quote hidden}

The core on the AVR is similar to the 8051, but the instruction set is not,
the instruction set was designed for efficient C programming.


> PIC has a large set of  products with many various peripherals, nearly
> all of which are available to hobbiests in ones and twos for low costs
> from 'regular' hobby sources.
> AVR has a small set of devices with normal peripherals, their line is
> not completely represented by 'regular' hobby sources but you can
> usually still buy low quantities of the less common controllers from
> Arrow and the larger industry sources.  Lead time can be more an issue
> with atmel, but costs can be lower as well.

Never had a problem with sourcing the AVR's, The 89C51 /2 deffinately, but
there are other sources eg other ppl who use them, IE in AU Grantronics in
Sydney has a good supply.


{Quote hidden}

The AVR data sheets are better than most, the app notes are great (and
AVRfreaks have a fair few "home grown" app notes being generated by monthly
design note compertitions).


{Quote hidden}

The "standard" AVR is like talking on Pic 12 and 15 (and low end 16) family,
older technology. The Newer AVR's are they Tiny's and Mega's. The Mega128
(as an example) has a clock speed of 16Mhz and aproches 16Mips.


> What this all boils down to is it pretty much doesn't matter.  You can
> buy chips for both and wire up simple parallel port programmers, use the
> free assemblers from both and try them both out for under $20.  Go to
> the AVR list and see what kind of comparison they make.  In the end you
> ought to choose one that has the support system you need.

If you go to my website it has the schematics for the "elcheapo" programmers
both serial and parallel (you will need access to a programmer to build the
serial as it has an AVR to do the Serial to SPI interface)

http://www.kaqelectronics.dyndns.org/avr/Aispcable.html

I personally use the AVR's, you can buy an STK 500 Development system for
under au$200 and an ICE 200 In Circuit Emulator for under au$500. I have
never found tools so cheap, that can do as many chips as these can.

If you would like more info on the AVR's you can join the AVR list on Yahoo
groups, Or go look at the great website at http://www.avrfreaks.net .


In the end it is a hard decision, each product has strengths and weeknesses,
one design works well on a PIC, another works better on an AVR.


> -Adam
Regards,

Kat.

**********************************************
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Electronic and Software Engineering.
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Ph +61 (0) 419 923 731
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2002\09\11@142708 by H. Carl Ott

flavicon
face
At 08:18 AM 9/11/2002, you wrote:
>I come from a background of Basic Stamps and want to get into some more
>advanced microcontrollers. I am having a terrible time trying to find some
>comprehensive comparisons of AVR technologies vs. the PIC. I want to make
>sure I make the right choice before investing time or money into one or
>the other.
>
>I have searched the archives and just get unrelated search results but I
>am sure this topic has come up before. Can anyone steer me in the right
>direction?
>
>- Matt


 It's hard to find an itemized checklist that compares the two. Especially
because the parts families for each manufacturer spans so many chips. As it
is most of the comparisons out there are usually biased one way or the other.

Here are examples of each, (David's is much less biased)   A little dated
perhaps, but representative.

www.avr-forum.com/dcforum/AVRForum/718.html
http://www.dvanhorn.org/Micros/Avr/AVR_VS_PIC.php

Both companies have newer parts that are easier to work with.

Both lines have strengths and weaknesses. There are mail lists, forums,
c-compilers (from free to big $$), example code,  pretty damn cheap
programming hardware, and various flavors of ice and icd for both available.

 If you are planning a high volume application, where cost and part
availability are important considerations, then you'll figure out your
requirements and pick the correct part from either manufacturer.  If this
is just for hobby purposes I don't think you'd go wrong with either family.
But you are doing a very smart thing by getting away from stamps.

 The piclist is a great resource and could be a consideration, discussion
lists for the avr also exist, but not at quite the volume,  or with quite
the diversity of discussion topics :-).

 For a totally personal opinion:
 I used to use pics but switched to avr years ago, if only to get away
from the damn paging. Found it much easier to develop projects, and never
looked back. But I still read the piclist!

 Regards,
 carl

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2002\09\11@144136 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
(I fully agree with previous conclusions: you can't go wrong with
either)

Two chips to keep in mind:
ATtiny28L : exceptionally good bang for the buck, but difficult to
program
Ubicom SX: PIC clones that run 75 MIPS at 75 MHz

Wouter

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2002\09\11@145125 by Katinka Mills

flavicon
face
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [spamPICLISTKILLspamspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Wouter van Ooijen
> Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2002 2:41 AM
> To: spamPICLISTspam_OUTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [PIC][AVR]: Cant find info on AVR vs. PIC Please help.
>
>
> (I fully agree with previous conclusions: you can't go wrong with
> either)
>
> Two chips to keep in mind:
> ATtiny28L : exceptionally good bang for the buck, but difficult to
> program

Not that hard, I have one sitting on a breadboard ATM (after switching a
battery charger design from the Tiny15 (I needed some SRAM lol) It has an
SPI port that can connect to any standard SPI programmer (you need AVR
Studio 3.55 or higher as this is a very new chip). My biggest bug with it is
the unusuall power pins (right in the middle) so I do not think it will run
in the STK 500 (may also need a dedicated Adaptor for the ICE 50 (when they
bring support out for the T26)

> Ubicom SX: PIC clones that run 75 MIPS at 75 MHz

Never played with these, and would not even know where to buy them in AU,
One day when I have spare time I will have to look into these, shame they
dropped the 100Mhz version.


> Wouter
>
Regards,

Kat.

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Electronic and Software Engineering.
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Ph +61 (0) 419 923 731
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2002\09\11@150129 by

flavicon
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Just a small note...
Just checked the "C51 MCU Selection Guide" from Atmel.
I can't find any *flash* modell with A/D in a "simple"
DIP package (like the PIC16F87x modells).

Am I missing something ?

Jan-Erik Söderholm.

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2002\09\11@150750 by Dave King

flavicon
face
Kat

Curious what you think of or have heard of the SprintBasic IDE
for the AVR?

Dave

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2002\09\11@151136 by Wouter van Ooijen

face picon face
> > Ubicom SX: PIC clones that run 75 MIPS at 75 MHz
>
> Never played with these, and would not even know where to buy
> them in AU

http://www.nollet.com.au/

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2002\09\11@153757 by lexandre_Guimar=E3es?=

flavicon
face
Hi,

> Just a small note...
> Just checked the "C51 MCU Selection Guide" from Atmel.
> I can't find any *flash* modell with A/D in a "simple"
> DIP package (like the PIC16F87x modells).
>
> Am I missing something ?

   The AVR family is not a C51 ! Take a look at the other section and you
will find what you are looking for. Atmel also manufactures C51 family
members with Flash but the AVR's are another completely different processor.

best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes

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2002\09\11@163457 by

flavicon
face
You're compleetly correct, of course.

Sorry...

Jan-Erik Söderholm.

-----Original Message-----
From: Alexandre Guimarães [STOPspamalexgspam_OUTspamspamBeGoneMS.MICROLINK.COM.BR]
Sent: den 11 september 2002 21:36
To: spam_OUTPICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [PIC][AVR]: Cant find info on AVR vs. PIC Please help.


Hi,

> Just a small note...
> Just checked the "C51 MCU Selection Guide" from Atmel.
> I can't find any *flash* modell with A/D in a "simple"
> DIP package (like the PIC16F87x modells).
>
> Am I missing something ?

   The AVR family is not a C51 ! Take a look at the other section and you
will find what you are looking for. Atmel also manufactures C51 family
members with Flash but the AVR's are another completely different processor.

best regards,
Alexandre Guimaraes

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2002\09\11@170131 by Douglas Wood

picon face
> The core on the AVR is similar to the 8051, but the instruction set is
not,
> the instruction set was designed for efficient C programming.

The AVR series "core" is not at similar to the 8051. The AVR series
processors are RISC processors and employ a modified Harvard architecture
similar to that of the PIC. It is true that the AVR's instruction set was
designed to allow C compilers to generate highly optimized output; this
means that the instruction set is not orthogonal. Also note that while both
the AVR and PIC processors are RISC (reduced instruction set computers), the
AVR instruction set has a lot more "instructions" when compared to
equivalent PIC instruction sets. Part of this increased number of
instructions to due to the fact the the AVR instructions have separate
mnemonics for certain functions such as setting or clearing the CARRY flag,
for example. The PIC instruction set does not have explicit instructions for
each of these types of operations; they are simply represented by BSET xx,yy
instructions and are often coded as "instructions" by macros, either written
by the programmer or, in the case of MPASM, supplied as "built-in" macros.

Douglas Wood
Software Engineer
EraseMEdbwoodspamKILLspamkc.rr.com
ICQ#: 143841506

Home of the EPICIS Development System for the PIC
http://epicis.piclist.com
{Quote hidden}

monthly
{Quote hidden}

family,
{Quote hidden}

programmers
> both serial and parallel (you will need access to a programmer to build
the
> serial as it has an AVR to do the Serial to SPI interface)
>
> http://www.kaqelectronics.dyndns.org/avr/Aispcable.html
>
> I personally use the AVR's, you can buy an STK 500 Development system for
> under au$200 and an ICE 200 In Circuit Emulator for under au$500. I have
> never found tools so cheap, that can do as many chips as these can.
>
> If you would like more info on the AVR's you can join the AVR list on
Yahoo
> groups, Or go look at the great website at http://www.avrfreaks.net .
>
>
> In the end it is a hard decision, each product has strengths and
weeknesses,
{Quote hidden}

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'[AVR]: ICE200- Comments please!'
2002\09\11@181422 by John Samperi

picon face
(Hope I got the tag right)

Hello all

I'm looking at purchasing an ICE200. Simulating stuff on
the PC is OK for somethings but has lots of drawbacks
when working on real time projects with data flying in.
One of the expensive units would be better, but can't meet
the budget. (i.e. my wife won't allow me to buy one!)

I suppose that the ICE200 has ram instead of flash in the
program space and for all intends and purposes behaves like
a real chip. If any of you who either has used one or bought
one would like to pass any comments it would be appreciated.

Regards

John Samperi

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'[PIC][AVR]: Cant find info on AVR vs. PIC Please'
2002\09\11@210522 by Matt Johnson

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Adam, that was an excellent reply to my post. Thank you very much.

- Matt

On Wed, 11 Sep 2002, M. Adam Davis wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\09\11@215837 by Katinka Mills

flavicon
face
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [.....PICLISTspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Dave King
> Sent: Thursday, 12 September 2002 2:57 AM
> To: @spam@PICLISTEraseMEspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [PIC][AVR]: Cant find info on AVR vs. PIC Please help.
>
>
> Kat
>
> Curious what you think of or have heard of the SprintBasic IDE
> for the AVR?
>
> Dave

Hi Dave,

Never even seen it, give me a URL and I will go try it in my spare time :o)

Regards,

Kat.

**********************************************
K.A.Q. Electronics.
Electronic and Software Engineering.
Perth, Western Australia.
Ph +61 (0) 419 923 731
**********************************************

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'[AVR]: ICE200- Comments please!'
2002\09\11@220638 by Katinka Mills

flavicon
face
{Quote hidden}

Hi John and all,

Just spend the toy fund :o) and you will not look back, the ICE200 has some
funny quirks which are documented with the ICE200. I own an ICE200, and I
have not yet been able to pick holes in it. It is what it is, it works only
on the Standard AVR's not the New Megas :o( But hey the new Mega's have Jtag
and a Jtag ICE is not tooo much more (but does not do the old Standards as
they do not have a Jtag port))

The ICE200 has saved my bacon on a few projects, finding silly little
mistakes that I did not notice on the PC but soon found in the Real World.

Regards,

Kat.

**********************************************
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Electronic and Software Engineering.
Perth, Western Australia.
Ph +61 (0) 419 923 731
**********************************************

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2002\09\12@010945 by Glenn Jones

flavicon
face
I have one, and i think its just great. I've developed a lot of code using
it. Sometimes it would be nice to have a trace buffer (the only main thing
that sets it apart form the really expensive ice's). I would have been
really up the creek trying to develop my TCP/IP stack with out it. Anyway,
hope that helps, Glenn

On Thu, 12 Sep 2002, John Samperi wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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'[PIC][AVR]: Cant find info on AVR vs. PIC Please'
2002\09\12@014533 by Dave King

flavicon
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> > Curious what you think of or have heard of the SprintBasic IDE
> > for the AVR?
> >
> > Dave
>
>Never even seen it, give me a URL and I will go try it in my spare time :o)
>
>Kat.

www.avrsprint.com/DownLoadFiles.asp?Cat=Demo+Software
That's to download the demo

http://www.avrsprint.com/SprintBasic1.asp
for the main info.

$69 for the registered version.


Dave

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2002\09\12@033027 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>There still is no free C compiler for the PIC line.


Not quite totally accurate. HiTech have available a free C compiler that
does the 16F84 and 16F627. Can also be used with the 16F628, but the
compiler is limited to the memory size of the 16F627.

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'[AVR]: ICE200- Comments-Thank you'
2002\09\12@044351 by John Samperi

picon face
(YEP I did get the tag right)

Hello all

It looks like everyone loves it. Just placed an order for it.

Regards

John Samperi

******************************************************
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              11 Brokenwood Place Baulkham Hills NSW 2153
                Tel. (02) 9674-6495       Fax (02) 9674-8745
                       Email: spamBeGonesamperispamspam_OUTampertronics.com.au
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'[PIC][AVR]: Cant find info on AVR vs. PIC Please'
2002\09\12@102650 by M. Adam Davis

flavicon
face
I would still stand by my statement, as there is no free C compiler for
the PIC line - as I think of the pic 'line' as the complete or
substantially representative series of pic processors.

Sure, there are limited 'demo' compilers which have various restrictions
(such as the HiTech, cc5x (which does up to 1k instructions for all
pics, not just two of them)) but I would not call them free, nor would I
say they cover the line of pics.  Their cost is suddenly very high if
you want to use all the code memory in some pics.

But I suppose it's all pedantic.  If all your programs are under 1k
instructions and/or you only need two processors then there are c
compilers which are free enough for you.

The SDCC compiler will only cover midrange pics (at this time) so even
it won't cover the line, though it will be free and do more code than
any other demo midrange compiler.

-Adam

Alan B. Pearce wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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'[AVR]: ICE200- Comments please!'
2002\09\12@160756 by Harold M Hallikainen

picon face
       We have one for the 18C452 and it works well. Problem is it costs a lot
of money every time we use a new processor. We're looking at the ICD-2
for future debugging. Anyone have a comparison between the ICE2000 and
the ICD-2?

Harold

On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:11:33 +1000 John Samperi
<RemoveMEsamperiRemoveMEspamAMPERTRONICS.COM.AU> writes:
{Quote hidden}

FCC Rules Online at http://hallikainen.com/FccRules
Lighting control for theatre and television at http://www.dovesystems.com

Reach broadcasters, engineers, manufacturers, compliance labs, and
attorneys.
Advertise at http://www.hallikainen.com/FccRules/ .


________________________________________________________________
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2002\09\12@183145 by John Samperi

picon face
At 01:03 PM 12/09/02 -0700, you wrote:
>        We have one for the 18C452 and it works well. Problem is it costs
a lot
>of money every time we use a new processor. We're looking at the ICD-2
>for future debugging. Anyone have a comparison between the ICE2000 and
>the ICD-2?

Ooops obviously the tag didn't work this time. The ICE200 is for the AVR
(see tag) not the PIC. Thanks for the info anyway.

Regards

John Samperi

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'[PIC][AVR]: Cant find info on AVR vs. PIC Please'
2002\09\12@210518 by Nathan Hurst

flavicon
face
On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:24:54 -0400
"M. Adam Davis" <spamBeGoneadampicKILLspamspamUBASICS.COM> wrote:

> The SDCC compiler will only cover midrange pics (at this time) so even
> it won't cover the line, though it will be free and do more code than
> any other demo midrange compiler.

I know of two people who are working on 18f support.  Noting Scott's
post of a while back there might be 3.  Adding more support to a
compiler really isn't that hard.

--
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2002\09\12@233935 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
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On Fri, 13 Sep 2002, Nathan Hurst wrote:

> On Thu, 12 Sep 2002 10:24:54 -0400
> "M. Adam Davis" <EraseMEadampicRemoveMEspam@spam@UBASICS.COM> wrote:
>
> > The SDCC compiler will only cover midrange pics (at this time) so even
> > it won't cover the line, though it will be free and do more code than
> > any other demo midrange compiler.
>
> I know of two people who are working on 18f support.  Noting Scott's
> post of a while back there might be 3.  Adding more support to a
> compiler really isn't that hard.

Yes, I'm working on the 18f at the moment. SDCC doesn't handle the 18f's
(except to the extent that the 18f's already work on most 16x code).
However, there is somebody that has expressed an interest in doing an 18F
port in SDCC. BTW, I fixed probably 20 bugs with gpsim and the 18F parts -
none have been commit'd to CVS yet.

Scott

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'[AVR]: Application Notes'
2002\09\13@100632 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
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Extremely large albeit disordered list of Atmel / AVR / Electronic
application notes.

       http://www.atmel.com/atmel/acrobat/

Targeted at Atmel products but some material of general interest.
There may be a proper index to this page but, if so, I haven't found it yet.

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'[AVR]: STK500 & Assembler proiblems'
2002\09\19@053406 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
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Just bought an AVR STK500 with Studio 4.0 software.
Also tried 4.05 software with no change in following problem.

1.    When I assemble an assembler file, if there are no errors it produces
LST, HEX etc files as expected.
               BUT
If there are errors it TELLS me that there are errors but deletes the LST
file.
I can find no reference to what the errors are. Which makes fixing them
"interesting".
I can and may have to find another assembler but this one should work.

Presumably I am missing something really really simple ... but I have read
paper documentation, help files, Googled and more to no avail.

Any clues?

2.    When setting up the assembler there are MEANT to be 4 file format
options - the alleged default one is necessary if one wishes to use source
level debugging with the simulator. The alleged default format is not listed
in the menu.

Any clues?



           Russell McMahon

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2002\09\19@060519 by Katinka Mills

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face
Russel Drop back to AVR studio 3.55 and try it :o)

4.X is still in Beta and has heaps of bugs :o(

Hope this helps

Regards,

Kat.

**********************************************
K.A.Q. Electronics.
Electronic and Software Engineering.
Perth, Western Australia.
Ph +61 (0) 419 923 731
**********************************************

> {Original Message removed}

'[AVR]: ATtiny26l - anyone used ? ~'
2002\09\23@053325 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
I'd be interested to know if anyone has used the AVR ATtiny26l and has
anything good or bad to say about them.

I'm considering using an AVR ATtiny26l in a new design.
This SEEMS like a marvellous part and excellent value for money but they are
quite new to the world (April 2002?) and while they are readily available
there is very little mentioned about them on the web so far.

I just ordered sample quantities (no free samples here :-( ) for about $US2
each. Volume pricing looks like it will be no worse than for AT90S2313 while
capabilities are at least equal (except for USPI which is "different" to
UART) but in many areas superior. (11 channels 10 bit A2D, differential A2D
with 20x gain option and offset zeroing, internal or external A2D reference,
2 x PWM with dual complementary non overlapping outputs, up to 16 I/O,
internal/external clocks, serial peripheral interface (not UART per se),
eerom, flash, more). (One competitor was/is? 16F628).

Using the USPI for sync comms requires a mix of hardware and software but
would give a faster rate and/or less overhead than possible with software
alone.



       Russell McMahon

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2002\09\23@094401 by Morgan Olsson

picon face
Hej Russell McMahon. Tack för ditt meddelande 10:20 2002-09-23 enligt nedan:
>I'd be interested to know if anyone has used the AVR ATtiny26l

What about power consumption compared to PIC (i.e 16F627L ?)

Is it supported by ICE200?

Morgan (never deciding if to use AVR or PIC...)

/Morgan

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2002\09\23@165101 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> What about power consumption compared to
> PIC (i.e 16F627L ?)

Higher. But not a major issue here.

> Is it supported by ICE200?

Almost certainly not at this stage - I haven't checked, but as not all are
and it is very new I am assuming that it isn't. But the application is such
that I am "confident" (enough :-) ) that I will not need ICE for that. I may
yet be sorry.

The 10 bit A2D with auto calibrate and internal gain is a major plus.
(Although you lose some accuracy if you use differential mode and gain).



       Russell McMahon

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2002\09\23@223100 by Mike Singer

picon face
Russell McMahon wrote:
> > What about power consumption (ATtiny26l) compared to
> > PIC (i.e 16F627L ?)
>
> Higher. But not a major issue here.
>

Russell McMahon wrote:
{Quote hidden}

16F627L (18 pins PDIP) and AT90S2313( 20 pins PDIP)
power consumptions are roughly eaqual at the same MIPs.
And at 10 MHz AT90S2313 has much more "MIPs" then
16F627L at his 20 MHz.

---
Mike, who just bought one AT90S2313 for <$3 at
a "nearest corner" on last Sunday.

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'[AVR]: The AT76C711'
2002\09\25@221257 by Brendan Moran

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Does anyone know which of the AVR instruction sets the AT76C711 uses?

From what I can tell, there are 3 instruction sets: one that has 133, one
with 90 and one with 89 instructions.  (The ATmega, ATtiny11/12, and AT90
respectively.)

TIA

--Brendan

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2002\09\26@032010 by Katinka Mills

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face
-----Original Message-----
From: pic microcontroller discussion list
[spamBeGonePICLISTKILLspamspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Brendan Moran
Sent: Thursday, 26 September 2002 09:52
To: TakeThisOuTPICLISTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: [AVR]: The AT76C711


Does anyone know which of the AVR instruction sets the AT76C711 uses?

From what I can tell, there are 3 instruction sets: one that has 133, one
with 90 and one with 89 instructions.  (The ATmega, ATtiny11/12, and AT90
respectively.)

Hi Brendan,

Well it says it is based on the AT90S8515 so I would assume 89 instructions
as all the classic AVR's had. Have not played with this chip yet, but have a
few samples on order.


Regards,

Kat.

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'[AVR] AT91 resources'
2002\09\26@044234 by Deva Seetharam

flavicon
face
i am posting this message for my friend...

-- Wise ones -

I am walking the learning curve on one of Atmel's ARM-based
microcontrollers.
Nice hardware, but painfully opaque to program -- at least t first blush.
The part is Atmel's AT91-FR40162, a ARM 7.

Nothing in the examples takes me far enough to go off and write even
simple code. The examples in the Atmel lib are a start. But unless
assembler is your first language, they don't shed the kind of light on
the general operating principles that a set of structured tutorials
would.

Do any of you have any pointers/suggestions for a quick bootup on this
part?
Or experience with the AT91 series in general?

Grateful for any pointers,
-Bill

Deva Seetharam

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2002\09\26@133648 by Scott Dattalo

face
flavicon
face
On Thu, 26 Sep 2002, Deva Seetharam wrote:

> i am posting this message for my friend...

The AT91 has nothing to do with AVR.
{Quote hidden}

I just so happen to be doing some AT91 development at the moment. These
are damn slick parts. I'm using the AT91R40008. This is an ARM 7TDMI core
with 256k bytes of SRAM. Unlike other manufactures, Atmel has provide an
ARM product with very minimal peripherals. Their's contain a couple of
UARTs and Timer/counters but no multimedia type stuff tha you tend to find
in say a Cirrus logic or Samsung ARM. In addition they're amazingly power
efficient - 0.83mW/MHz!

To get started, I suggest starting with eCos:

http://www.redhat.com/embedded/technologies/ecos/

eCos is the "embedded configurable OS". It's lean, fast, and free. In
addition there's outstanding community support for the various hardware
platforms (besides the AT91). For example, here are the instructions on
building the arm-elf tool chain:

http://sources.redhat.com/ecos/tools/linux-arm-elf.html


In my case, I obtained a few eval boards: AT91EB40 and the AT91EB40a. I
ported RedBoot to these asn was able to develop on them. But prior to
that, I used the ARM simulator. Actually, I used two of them. The arm-elf
tool chain includes gdb. One of the targets gdb supports is the simulator.
It works great. For profiling, I used SID:

http://sources.redhat.com/sid/

Again, gdb was used, but the target was sid instead of the simulator.

Now I'm in the process of trying to bring up *real* hardware. For that, I
found JTAG to be indispensible. I purchased a Wiggler from McCraigor
Systems.

http://www.ocdemon.net/

Their OCD Commander tool works reasonably well.

A site that tends to be down most of the time, but is otherwise a good
resource is:

http://www.heyrick.co.uk/heyrick/assembler/index.html

Scott

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'[PIC]:[EE]:[AVR]: Dirty cheap low end microcontrol'
2002\10\02@112436 by Tal Dayan
flavicon
face
Hello,

I am looking for a dirty cheap (sub 50c in quantity of million) small
(preferably 8 pin) 8 bit  microcontroller with ADC, Comparator, EEPROM and
at least 1K of ROM.

Microchip has the 16F675 that fits the requirements but I am not sure we can
get them that cheap.

A friend mentioned that some no-name manufactures in Asia have similar
microcontrollers for 40c and
less but could not come with any name.

Any idea how we should go about this ?

Any idea or pointer will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tal

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2002\10\02@120454 by Katinka Mills

flavicon
face
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [EraseMEPICLISTEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Tal Dayan
> Sent: Wednesday, 2 October 2002 23:23
> To: spamBeGonePICLISTspam_OUTspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [PIC]:[EE]:[AVR]: Dirty cheap low end microcontroller ?
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am looking for a dirty cheap (sub 50c in quantity of million) small
> (preferably 8 pin) 8 bit  microcontroller with ADC, Comparator, EEPROM and
> at least 1K of ROM.

Hi Tal,

Also look at the AVR ATiny15, it is cheap in big Qty and has 1k rom, 64bytes
EEprom and 32 registers (can be used as 32 Sram bytes)

Regards,

Kat.
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2002\10\02@142043 by ian.forse

flavicon
face
Why not try Motorola Nitron 68HC908, dev board arrived on my desk today, I
believe launched on Monday but is actually available (dig at Microchip
here).  Spec is shown for 8 pin device

CORE: BUS SPEED: TIMER: VOLTAGE: RAM: SCI/SPI:
EXT. INTERRUPTS: OSCILLATOR:
OTHER FEATURES:
0.5 Micron HC08 8 MHz (125 ns min instruction) 8 bit ADC, 2-Ch 16-bit timer
with IC, OC
or PWM 2.7 V   5.5 V 128 bytes Software programmable/app note available
IRQ, KBI, Timer IC - Internal oscillator with 3.2 MHz nominal frequency,
trimmable +/-25%, +/-5% accuracy - Optional ext. RC, external clock or
external resonator/xtal LVI, COP with auto wakeup from STOP, KBI

Very low cost.

The free development software that comes with it is Metrowerks Codewarrior
for
asm and C compiler including simulator, serial programming, real time
debugging etc.

Regards

Ian


> {Original Message removed}

2002\10\02@153630 by Tim McDonough

flavicon
face
On Wed, 02 Oct 2002 08:23:26 -0700, Tal Dayan wrote:

>I am looking for a dirty cheap (sub 50c in quantity of million)
>small (preferably 8 pin) 8 bit  microcontroller with ADC,
>Comparator, EEPROM and at least 1K of ROM.

The Arrow Electronics blurb on the new Motorola processors claims about 70 cents in single piece quantities for the low end part. Should be easy to hit your target price or lower at a million pieces.

Tim

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2002\10\02@162009 by llile

flavicon
face
Wow, Tal, you must be in the toaster business because you talk just like I
do.   Tell Mchip how cheap you want it.  If you talk millions, they start
to get down in the mud.

-- Lawrence Lile
Senior Project Engineer
Toastmaster, Inc.
Division of Salton, Inc.
573-446-5661 voice
573-446-5676 fax




Tal Dayan <EraseMEtalspamBeGonespamspamZAPTA.COM>
Sent by: pic microcontroller discussion list <KILLspamPICLISTspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
10/02/02 10:23 AM
Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list


       To:     PICLISTspam_OUTspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
       cc:
       Subject:        [PIC]:[EE]:[AVR]: Dirty cheap low end microcontroller ?


Hello,

I am looking for a dirty cheap (sub 50c in quantity of million) small
(preferably 8 pin) 8 bit  microcontroller with ADC, Comparator, EEPROM and
at least 1K of ROM.

Microchip has the 16F675 that fits the requirements but I am not sure we
can
get them that cheap.

A friend mentioned that some no-name manufactures in Asia have similar
microcontrollers for 40c and
less but could not come with any name.

Any idea how we should go about this ?

Any idea or pointer will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Tal

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2002\10\02@171139 by Wagner Lipnharski

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face
The AVR ATtiny12 in mid range goes for $0.65, with all except the ADC,
Microchip can't get close to this.  AVR ATtiny15 im mid quantity can be
found around $0.75, and has all you specified as required... good choice,
probably for a million pieces you can get prices in the same range you
need, or better.

/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/
Wagner Lipnharski - UST Research Inc
Orlando FLorida - USA - http://www.ustr.net
/_/_/_/ Atmel AVR Consultant /_/_/_/

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2002\10\03@113307 by Tal Dayan

flavicon
face
Lawrence, yes, similar business except that our slices of bread comes with
built in
sensors and microcontroller. This way the toaster queries independent
parameters,
status and history information from each slice. We believe this is the ONLY
way
to achieve perfect toasting of each an every slice.

BTW, we are also working on a recycling program for these chips but there
are few ugly problems that we have not solved yet.

(just kidding of course)

Tal

> {Original Message removed}

2002\10\03@134700 by llile

flavicon
face
Ha Ha!  We recycle our used test bread through our stomachs - maybe that
is an option for your products as well?  (also just kidding)

Serioulsy, I am curious what you are building (assuming you are at liberty
to say).    Holtek has been mentioned as a low cost supplier, and they DID
have a PIC16C54  clone at one time if they haven't been sued recently
about it.   I'd also be curious to know what they are in volume.  I am
willing to bet that MCHIP will match anybody's price, too.

Note to ye Flamers - I am NOT condoning third party efforts to rip off or
clone Microchip's designs, and I am quite fearful about designing in a
micro from some outfit I don't know much about.

-- Lawrence Lile





Tal Dayan <@spam@talspamZAPTA.COM>
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10/03/02 10:29 AM
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       cc:
       Subject:        Re: [PIC]:[EE]:[AVR]: Dirty cheap low end microcontroller ?


Lawrence, yes, similar business except that our slices of bread comes with
built in
sensors and microcontroller. This way the toaster queries independent
parameters,
status and history information from each slice. We believe this is the
ONLY
way
to achieve perfect toasting of each an every slice.

BTW, we are also working on a recycling program for these chips but there
are few ugly problems that we have not solved yet.

(just kidding of course)

Tal

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2002\10\03@171616 by Bill Westfield

face picon face
   Holtek has been mentioned as a low cost supplier, and they DID have a
   PIC16C54 clone at one time if they haven't been sued recently about it.

I didn't think that any of the clones had eeprom (yet?)  Neither do the new
motorola parts, although they may squeak by since I think their internal
flash memory is self-programmable.

BillW

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2002\10\03@173545 by ian.forse

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The motorola (Nitron) part has flash, 1.5K is smallest + built in Monitor
program but there is an application note on how to use it as eeprom, I am
led to belive it is the same on the MPS430.  As I have only been working
with it for a few days I haven't got that far.

In the range the 8 pin device only uses 1 dedicated line for programming
from an RS232 port and the IRQ input (momentarily at power up) so you have 5
pins available one of which is an input only.  The other 4 can be
ADC/IO/PWM/Oscillator.

Ian Forse

> {Original Message removed}

2002\10\03@230953 by Russell McMahon

face
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> I didn't think that any of the clones had eeprom (yet?)  Neither do the
new
> motorola parts, although they may squeak by since I think their internal
> flash memory is self-programmable.

Yes, it is, BUT AFAIK the cpu stops processing during flash writing!



       RM

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2002\10\04@043618 by Eric Bohlman

picon face
10/3/02 10:29:25 AM, Tal Dayan <@spam@talspam_OUTspamZAPTA.COM> wrote:

>Lawrence, yes, similar business except that our slices of bread comes with
>built in
>sensors and microcontroller. This way the toaster queries independent
>parameters,
>status and history information from each slice. We believe this is the ONLY
>way
>to achieve perfect toasting of each an every slice.
>
>BTW, we are also working on a recycling program for these chips but there
>are few ugly problems that we have not solved yet.
>
>(just kidding of course)

I'm reminded of an old paper in the _Journal of Irreproducible Results_ in which the author designs
a new mousetrap which offers far superior performance to existing mousetraps, at the expense of
having to change the specs for the mouse.

I think the toast problem is really a chemistry problem rather than a physics one.  You need to
develop self-toasting bread.  That way you achieve true object orientation; instead of applying a
procedure to the slice, you send the slice a "toast" message.

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'[AVR]: Using ATtiny26 with STK500'
2002\10\09@173632 by Russell McMahon

face
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I'm about to attempt using the ATtiny26L with the STK500 programmer.
The Studio software mentions the processor but I don't think any of the
provided sockets support the 26L pinout (yet to check in detail).
Presumably using the ISP cable will work OK.

Has anyone got useful comments to make about the 26L in this context or
otherwise?

Software examples specific to the 26L are also rare at this stage. Any A2D
experiences using the gain stage and differential mode would be of interest.
I'm interested in using the serial hardware to provide UART functionality
which of course requires a small amount of software to achieve the
functionality of a "normal" hardware UART (eg no buffering requires response
within 1 bit time). I will be implementing a full duplex UART with enough
interrupt driven software to make it look like a normal UART to other
software. This looks like a simple enough task but if anyone's done this
already any code would be appreciated.


       Russell McMahon

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2002\10\09@220815 by Katinka Mills

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Hi Russell,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [.....PICLISTspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Russell McMahon
> Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 06:35
> To: spamPICLISTKILLspamspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [AVR]: Using ATtiny26 with STK500
>
>
> I'm about to attempt using the ATtiny26L with the STK500 programmer.
> The Studio software mentions the processor but I don't think any of the
> provided sockets support the 26L pinout (yet to check in detail).
> Presumably using the ISP cable will work OK.

Yes I have done this successfully (I too wish they had a socket for the T26
on the STK 500 :o( ) The ISP cable will still work well :o)


> Has anyone got useful comments to make about the 26L in this context or
> otherwise?
>
> Software examples specific to the 26L are also rare at this stage. Any A2D
> experiences using the gain stage and differential mode would be
> of interest.

The A2D works on this chip like most of the others, it is identical (apart
from more inputs and diff stages ) to the T15 :o) no real gotchas here :o)

Not used the TWI interface yet as all my T26 designs talk to a M128 via 2
wire bitbang. So I can not comment on this yet, although one day I will play
with it as the T26 is a great little chip and will be come another work
horse :o)


Regards,


Kat.

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2002\10\09@230102 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
face
> > I'm about to attempt using the ATtiny26L with the STK500 programmer.
> > The Studio software mentions the processor but I don't think any of the
> > provided sockets support the 26L pinout (yet to check in detail).
> > Presumably using the ISP cable will work OK.

> Yes I have done this successfully (I too wish they had a socket for the
T26
> on the STK 500 :o( ) The ISP cable will still work well :o)

Katinka,

I am using the ?blue 20 pin socket which has the correct pinout for a 26.
All programming lines except Reset seem correct. The Reset line does not go
to the programming header but can be picked up on a 4 pin options header.

How did/do you connect Reset?
Connecting Reset to ground (which is where it should be during programming)
produces apparently OK handshake but does not produce a correct verify.
Connecting uP-Reset to Reset from the programming header causes failure of
programming.

Do you need a clock connected to X1 during programming or verify?. Datasheet
is unclear (ie says you may or may not depending on fuses - doesn't seem to
say what the default is.)

I can connect a clock line from elsewhere on board but would be nice to know
what others have got to work. Also disturbing that connection to socket
onboard from reset line is not complete even though all others are.


           Russell McMahon

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2002\10\11@041055 by John Maud

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part 1 1233 bytes content-type:text/plain; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-3BC086; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed (unknown type 8bit not decoded)

Russell,

Any further developments on the ATtiny26 and STK500 issues?

I was following this thread with interest, as my samples arrive on Monday.

Regards
John


{Quote hidden}


part 2 131 bytes
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2002\10\11@041721 by Katinka Mills

flavicon
face
Sorry all I sent my reply directly to russell and not the list, here is my
reply :o)

{Quote hidden}

I will have to dig out the schematics for the STK 500

***** New note that Russell would not have seen****** The STK500 Analogue 20
Pin socket will work, just need to jumper the Reset Pin over (not sure which
pin ATM)

I use a T26 on a breadboard with just the power supplies and the 10 pin ISP
cable nothing else, the reset pulse that comes out this cable is fine.


{Quote hidden}

the sample chip I have worked out the packet fine and did not need a clock.

{Quote hidden}

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'[AVR]: tiny15 ICE'
2002\10\21@192350 by Lyle Killough

flavicon
face
Does anyone know if there are alternatives to the ICE10 for in-circuit
emulation of the ATtiny15?

Does anyone have experiences (good or bad) with the ICE10 and the
ATtiny15?

I'm at my wit's end, and I need some better tools!

Thanks,

Lyle

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'[AVR]: IAR Embedded Workbench User Guide,'
2002\10\25@135354 by Doug Hewett

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face
Description of anomaly.  The User Guide does not show 'Library Configuration' or 'System Configuration' as option pages for the General category for the project options.  However, It should.

Doug Hewett
Software engineer
StarTrac, Inc.
714 508-3766 (voice)
714 669-1087 (fax)

IAR AVR Serial number:  929374
IAR AVR Part number:  EWAVR

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'[AVR] Support Tools'
2002\11\05@144325 by Royce Simmons
picon face
Hello,

Where is the best place to find support software for the Atmel processors?
Such as assemblers and also programmers,
preferbly in kit form.

Thanks,

Royce Simmons

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2002\11\05@144740 by David Harris

picon face
Hi-
http://www.dontronics.com is good, and of course:  http://www.avrfreaks.net/
Cheers, David

Royce Simmons wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2002\11\05@164319 by Russell McMahon

face
flavicon
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       http://www.avrfreaks.com

> Where is the best place to find support software for the Atmel processors?
> Such as assemblers and also programmers,
> preferbly in kit form.

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'[AVR]: ATmega128, uart,'
2002\12\03@154748 by Doug Hewett
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I wrote a simple C program (ATmega128 target) to send printable characters out uart0 and uart1.  I have tried various combinations of connecting 'RS232 SPARE' or 'RS232 SPARE #2' to the com port on my PC (which was running Hyperterminal, in the 'capture text' mode).

I have connected the jumper(s) between 'RS232 SPARE RXD and TXD' to PD2 and PD3, respectively and 'RS232 SPARE #2 RXD and TXD' to PE0 and PE1, respectively.

I do not see any characters at the Hyperterminal.

(1) Are there any errata or addenda to the documentation that I should be aware of?

(2) Do you have any suggestions for texts?  (We are using IAR systems compiler. I have Barnett's "Embedded C Programming and the Atmel AVR.)

Doug Hewett

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'[AVR]: Static sensitive reset?'
2002\12\14@020246 by Richard Sloan

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part 1 450 bytes content-type:text/plain (decoded quoted-printable)

Atmel recommends a brownout circuit for 4414 and 8515's I think they corrupt the eeprom without it.

Can it be made less sensitive?

Attached is a small schematic of it.

Any other thoughts on static induced resets? It does not take much to do it!


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Richard.

part 2 10080 bytes content-type:image/jpeg; name="reset.jpg" (decode)


part 3 2 bytes
-

2002\12\14@073530 by mark

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--Message-Boundary-28766
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Content-description: Mail message body

On 14 Dec 2002 at 2:00, Richard Sloan wrote:

> Any other thoughts on static induced resets? It does not take much to do it!
>

I have used the attached circuit without problems.

Mark


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2002\12\14@073553 by Spehro Pefhany

picon face
At 02:00 AM 12/14/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Atmel recommends a brownout circuit for 4414 and 8515's I think they
>corrupt the eeprom without it.
>
>Can it be made less sensitive?
>
>Attached is a small schematic of it.
>
>Any other thoughts on static induced resets? It does not take much to do it!

Suggest you use a proper reset circuit such as Microchip's MCP809/810
(or the TO-92 versions). Similar parts are available from Seiko, Motorola,
and many others. You can make your circuit less sensitive by paralleling
R1/R2 with similar ratio capacitors, but it's still going to be a crummy
temperature-sensitive circuit without timer or hysteresis. Unless you
are building very high volume goods, it just ain't worth it.

Bset regards,

Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the reward"
KILLspamspeff.....spamKILLspaminterlog.com             Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  http://www.speff.com

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2002\12\14@112736 by Richard Sloan

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They were 182K and 33K I added 0.1 and 0.01 and it seemed to work!

I will keep trying and seeing if I can reset it with a zap!

R.


>>  At 02:00 AM 12/14/02 -0500, you wrote:
>>  >Atmel recommends a brownout circuit for 4414 and 8515's I think they
>>  >corrupt the eeprom without it.
>>  >
>>  >Can it be made less sensitive?
>>  >
>>  >Attached is a small schematic of it.
>>  >
>>  >Any other thoughts on static induced resets? It does not take much to do
>>  it!

>>  Suggest you use a proper reset circuit such as Microchip's MCP809/810
>>  (or the TO-92 versions). Similar parts are available from Seiko, Motorola,
>>  and many others. You can make your circuit less sensitive by paralleling
>>  R1/R2 with similar ratio capacitors, but it's still going to be a crummy
>>  temperature-sensitive circuit without timer or hysteresis. Unless you
>>  are building very high volume goods, it just ain't worth it.

>>  Bset regards,

>>  Spehro Pefhany --"it's the network..."            "The Journey is the
>>  reward"
>>  speffspam_OUTspamspam_OUTinterlog.com             Info for manufacturers:
>>  http://www.trexon.com
>>  Embedded software/hardware/analog  Info for designers:  >>  http://www.speff.com

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Thanks,
Richard Sloan
__________________________________________________________
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http://www.themindfactory.com          
* Custom MP3 Development * Low Power FM Transmitters
* Custom Smart Cards
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* MP3, FAT16/32, IR, IRDA, USB, X10, VIDEO, TCP/IP, LCD, COMPACT FLASH

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'[AVR]: SPI slave'
2002\12\18@231209 by Sean Breheny

face picon face
Hi all,

I'm looking for info on how to use the AVR's SPI hardware in slave mode.
Specifically, how do you begin a transfer? How do you tell it to "reset"
and receive bit 0 on the next clock transition? How do you determine when
it has finished receiving 8 bits? The info in the datasheet (I'm using
the AT90S8535) is geared toward master mode and it doesn't seem to
clearly state how this would work in slave mode.

Thanks!

Sean

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2002\12\19@182439 by Doug Hewett

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You don't 'begin' a transfer.  The slave writes its first byte and waits for the interrupt.  The interrupt routine reads and then writes the next byte.

{Original Message removed}


'[AVR]: Does someone want to buy some development t'
2003\02\05@032733 by Kari Lehikko
flavicon
face
Hello everyone,

As this is not about advertising a product, I took the liberty of
putting this under [AVR]:

We have some AVR tools that we haven't used for a while. If you are
interested in them, please mail me directly, do not answer to the list.
(not subscribed to [AVR]: )

We have:
- ATICE30 in-circuit emulator 1650 euros
- 2 licenses for ICCAVR C-compiler 100 euros a piece
- STK300 starter kit 70 euros
- Easy-ICE in-circuit emulator (Flash Design Co.) 600 euros

Of course we are taking offers, if these prices (about half what we
paid) seem too high. All equipment are in working condition (in fact,
Easy-ICE has never been used) and have all the parts, manuals etc.
Please mail me if you have any questions about them.

BTW: We have 319 pieces of ATmega103-6AC controllers, if anyone is
interested in buying them.

Regards,

Kari Lehikko
H.Vesala Ltd.
Finland

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'[AVR]: AVR410 Bugs??'
2003\02\16@214743 by John Samperi

picon face
G'day all

*********
I have posted the following elsewhere so some of you may get this more than
once. (No extra charge!)
Since my first posting I have got this program working sporadically by
increasing the value in the following line:

start2:         cpi     timerL,17       ;If startbit longer than 1.1ms,

changed the value to 20, but the returned value seems to be be at least 18
most of the times.

Now back to the post.....
*********

I'm trying to get the above appnote running without success.
It's a decoder for RC5 infrared codes from remote controls and
it does have some bugs.

The first was easy to fix (it uses R16 in 2 .def places and  I changed
the second one, timerH, to R18).

But apparently there is also a timing problem that someone mentioned
on the AVRfreaks list but did not remember where.

Also I'm running at 8Mhz and the appnote is for 4 Mhz. I have added a flip
flop type of code so that the timer T0 does it's job every second interupt
in order to get 64uS.

The int code is now:

TIM0_OVF:       in      S,sreg
;***added
               com     flip
               breq    TIM0_OVF_exit
;***
               inc     timerL          ;Updated every 64us
               inc     inttemp
               brne    TIM0_OVF_exit

               inc     timerH

TIM0_OVF_exit:  out     sreg,S
               reti

Also can anyone figure out what the var "inttemp" does?

gets defined:
.def    inttemp =R1

gets incremented by the timer int:
               inc     inttemp

gets cleared at the beginning of detect:
detect:         clr     inttemp

and it doesn't seem to be used anywhere else.

If anyone has had this code working, please share your wealth
of knowledge. Of course one would expect that Atmel would
fix any bugs in their code, but alas......



Regards

John Samperi

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'[AVR]: AVR410 Bugs?? a bit more.'
2003\02\16@225823 by John Samperi

picon face
Hello again

Following my previous post on the above:

I guess 17 is a bit tight for 1.1mS as 17*64uS is 1.088mS, that's why
it seems to work with a larger number, maybe the remote I'm using is
a bit out of specs. By putting a breakpoint at start2 timerL=18 pretty much
everytime.

start2:         cpi     timerL,17       ;If startbit longer than 1.1ms,



I think I figured out what the var "inttemp" does. (DUHH)
It is simply a counter for timerH, when inttemp overflows, then
timerH is incremented. The var timerL cannot be used for this
purpose as it may get cleared in the decode routine

               inc     timerL          ;Updated every 64us
               inc     inttemp
               brne    TIM0_OVF_exit
               inc     timerH




Regards

John Samperi

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'[AVR]: AVRprog.exe? Where is it?'
2003\02\21@144135 by John Pearson

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I am looking at Atmels Application Note AVR109, which referes to AVRprog.exe as being available on the Atmel web site, for free. Just can't find it. Any help would be appreciated. Even hints or clues.

Thanks

John

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2003\02\21@145556 by Ned Konz

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face
On Friday 21 February 2003 11:45 am, John Pearson wrote:
> I am looking at Atmels Application Note AVR109, which referes to
> AVRprog.exe as being available on the Atmel web site, for free.
> Just can't find it. Any help would be appreciated. Even hints or
> clues.

ftp://http://www.atmel.com/pub/atmel/aprogwin.exe
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GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

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2003\02\21@150424 by Ned Konz

flavicon
face
On Friday 21 February 2003 11:53 am, Ned Konz wrote:
> On Friday 21 February 2003 11:45 am, John Pearson wrote:
> > I am looking at Atmels Application Note AVR109, which referes to
> > AVRprog.exe as being available on the Atmel web site, for free.
> > Just can't find it. Any help would be appreciated. Even hints or
> > clues.
>
> ftp://http://www.atmel.com/pub/atmel/aprogwin.exe

Sorry, it looks like they've removed the whole FTP site.

--
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GPG key ID: BEEA7EFE

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2003\02\21@151710 by G.Smith

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face
On 21 Feb 2003, at 12:03, Ned Konz wrote:

> Sorry, it looks like they've removed the whole FTP site.

Yeah - some site improvement...

I've stuck the last copy I have (think its ver 1.3x) on:-
http://www.lintech.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/aprogwin.zip


George Smith

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2003\02\21@172204 by Dave Dribin

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face
On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 11:45:46AM -0800, John Pearson wrote:
> I am looking at Atmels Application Note AVR109, which referes to
> AVRprog.exe as being available on the Atmel web site, for free. Just
> can't find it. Any help would be appreciated. Even hints or clues.


It comes with AVR Studio:

 http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools.asp?family_id=607

I've got both 3.5 and 4.0 installed and each comes with it.

-Dave

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'[AVR]: AVR Primer needed'
2003\02\22@130838 by stanton54

picon face
The PICLIST web page has a bit on AVRs.
http://www.avrfreaks.net is a good site with some tutorials and forums.
Atmel's web site also has lots of good ideas, as well as datasheets and
things you will need to create a circuit.
The ATMega8 is a nice little processor with plenty of easy to use
peripherals. Generally you just have to (carefully) read a chapter of
the datasheet (which you read already - right? :) ), set a couple of
flags, and ta-da! it's working.

John Pearson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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'[AVR] Primer needed'
2003\02\22@143853 by Marcelo Puhl

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On 22 Feb 2003 at 9:40, John Pearson wrote:

> Any good AVR web sites, forums.
>
> Thanks
>
> John
>

Yahoogroups has many AVR forums.

Mark

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'[AVR]: AVR Primer needed'
2003\02\22@165444 by John Samperi

picon face
At 01:06 PM 22/02/03 -0500, you wrote:
>John Pearson wrote:
>> Any good AVR web sites, forums.

There are 2 other AVR mail lists on Yahoo, the AVR-CHAT and AVR-CLUB.
Just go to the Yahoo Groups site and subscribe to them.

Regards

John Samperi

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2003\02\23@144448 by hard Prosser

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Topic changed to AVR

I've had a fair bit of success using BASCOM with an  ATMega32. Seems very
easy to get up & running - programming etc. all OK ("Sample Electronics"
programmer on an LPT port).
And Cheap.

Also, it's reasonably easy to embed assembler code where required to cut
down execution speed. Early on, I did have some difficulty with program
bugs and undetected sysntax errors but it seems a lot better now.
I don't know anything about BX24s.

Richard P





I am thinking of using an AVR processor for my project. I need development
advice.

The first itteration plan is to do some rough development on a BX24.

Then migrate to a MEGA8 using Bascom AVR.

Are there any major pitfalls or stumbling blocks with this approach.

Any better ways to do this, software, tools (lowcost, this is a hobby)

Any good AVR web sites, forums.

Thanks

John



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'[AVR]: Looking for C utility code'
2003\03\01@230413 by John Pearson
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I am looking for some C utility code for Mega chip for serial I/O, servos, LCD displays, and ADC routines. I am not interested in AVRFreaks web site. Been there, done that. Had enough of the unorganized pile of led blinking routines and the attitudes.

Any help would be welcome.

Thanks.



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2003\03\01@233402 by stanton54

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I have AVR-GCC code for
+ Buffered serial output (mega128)
+ Driving 1 or 2 servos from a port pin (mega8)
+ Driving a whole stack of servos through a 4017 (mega128)
+ Single-conversion (i.e. not free-running ADC) (8 & 128 i think)
Sorry, no LCD stuff. Never managed to get one of those to work right.
I had one almost working with a PIC and then I fried something :(
BTW that's why you should just buy the right connector instead of
hacking one together out of bits of stuff you have lying around.

The code is kind of long to send to the list. If you're interested I
can put it up on my website.

John Pearson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2003\03\02@002353 by John Pearson

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Stanton,

I would be delighted if you could post it.

Don't forget to let me know the address of your web site too.

Thank you.

John
{Original Message removed}

2003\03\02@015850 by Katinka Mills

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [EraseMEPICLISTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of John Pearson
> Sent: Sunday, 2 March 2003 12:14 PM
> To: PICLISTEraseMEspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [AVR]: Looking for C utility code
>
>
> I am looking for some C utility code for Mega chip for serial
> I/O, servos, LCD displays, and ADC routines. I am not interested
> in AVRFreaks web site. Been there, done that. Had enough of the
> unorganized pile of led blinking routines and the attitudes.
>
> Any help would be welcome.
>
> Thanks.

Hi John,

Ask on the AVR-Chat list on yahoo, or the relevant group for your compiler
(I know codevision have an email group :o)


Regards,

Kat.

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2003\03\02@143251 by stanton54

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Go to http://www.geocities.com/uav_fun/
and click "bits of code" on the menu on the left.

If there are any big chunks missing I probably forgot to convert
a "<" to &lt; and it thinks a bit of code is an HTML tag. I think
I caught all of those though; it looks OK.

The 4017 servo driver is kind of a mess (so few comments I'm not
sure what half of it does anymore; I know, I know!) so I didn't put
that one up. The regular servo driver is OK.

The AVR's timers make it easy to work with servos. You can probably
convert the code to other processors fairly easily; just look through
the datasheet to see which registers are different. The servo stuff
does need a 16-bit timer but can be made to work with an 8-bit one;
they just won't move quite as smoothly.

John Pearson wrote:
>
> Stanton,
>
> I would be delighted if you could post it.
>
> Don't forget to let me know the address of your web site too.
>
> Thank you.
>
> John
> {Original Message removed}

'[AVR]: Help with a one-time programming of a AT90S'
2003\03\14@072022 by

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Hi.
I'v got the need of geeting a HEX file into a AT90S4433-8PC.
Anyone having a programmer for these chips that would like
to make a few $'ars ? If you happen to have one of these chips
laying around, I could also buy that one directly from you.

Someone in Sweden might be best, but it's not a prerequisite.

I don't want to build a programmer just for a one time programming...

Second thought, can anyone point me at some simple (DYI) programmer
for the AVR's ? (I have built and am using the Wisp628 for PIC's, so
something like that would be just fine.)

Regards
Jan-Erik Söderholm

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2003\03\14@075724 by Jinx

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www.atmel.com/atmel/products/prod203.htm

Get astudio3.exe and asmpack.exe for Win applications. I also
use a small program called fbprg.exe. It's a 3rd party DOS program
that you can use with Notepad and a very simple programmer board.
Quick and easy to use. Last person I passed this on to said he had
it built and working in 10 minutes

asmpack is a self-extracting file that, amongst other things, contains
wavrasm.exe version 1.30, which you need to assemble text into the
hex file. I haven't yet needed to use astudio.exe, which is a simulator

fbprg originally came from here, but it 404s now ;-(

http://member.netease.com/~tominfo/index.htm

You may have to Google for it

Another simple programmer, also does Tiny

http://jaichi.virtualave.net/avr-prog-e.htm

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2003\03\14@081629 by

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Thanks !

The first (atmel) link don't work.

The "jaichi" link does work, but the programmer there
just program up to 1K code, then it costs $20...

Jan-Erik.

{Original Message removed}

2003\03\14@083258 by Katinka Mills

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{Quote hidden}

Go to  http://www.kaqelectronics.dyndns.org/avr/Aispcable.html

the parallel port version is just a 74hc244 and a few passives.

Regards,

Kat. (who is at long last part of the AVR web ring now I need to get
cracking on some designs)
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2003\03\14@090516 by

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Hi !

After searching a bit I also found something called
"PonyProg" at : http://www.lancos.com/prog.html
that looks promising. Anyone used it ?

I think I have enugh now to experiment with...

Thanks all !

Jan-Erik.

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2003\03\14@121505 by Marcelo Puhl

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On 14 Mar 2003 at 13:19, QAC wrote:

> Second thought, can anyone point me at some simple (DYI) programmer
> for the AVR's ? (I have built and am using the Wisp628 for PIC's, so
> something like that would be just fine.)
>

The simplest AVR programmer you can find is the good old AT-PROG.
It is just a paralel cable with some resistors. Google for it.

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'[AVR}: AVR assembler with conditional assembly - '
2003\03\18@200646 by Russell McMahon

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I using the AVRASM assembler provided with the STK500.
It works fine BUT the lack of conditional assembly is a real nuisance.

There are probably a number of other AVR assemblers available with
conditional assembly (eg AVRA) but the last thing I want to do is swap a
limited but reliable assembler for one with more features but a much lower
level of reliability. In particular, the ability to always produce code that
actually works as expected is valued :-)

Can anyone recommend an AVR assembler with conditional assembly capability
and good reliability. Free would be nice but "for money" is OK if it works
well.



       Russell McMahon

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2003\03\18@202202 by William Chops Westfield

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How about using a macro preprocessor ?  cpp is popular.  m4 does just about
anything...

BillW

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2003\03\19@111248 by dr. Imre Bartfai

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Hi,

or - if one disklikes the exotic syntax of m4 - 'gema' is a worth of a
trial.

Regards,
Imre


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On Tue, 18 Mar 2003, William Chops Westfield wrote:

> How about using a macro preprocessor ?  cpp is popular.  m4 does just about
> anything...
>
> BillW
>
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2003\03\19@133145 by Sergio Masci

picon face
----- Original Message -----
From: Russell McMahon <spamapptech@spam@spamPARADISE.NET.NZ>
To: <spam_OUTPICLISTTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamMITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 12:50 PM
Subject: [AVR}: AVR assembler with conditional assembly - recommendations
sought


> I using the AVRASM assembler provided with the STK500.
> It works fine BUT the lack of conditional assembly is a real nuisance.
>
> There are probably a number of other AVR assemblers available with
> conditional assembly (eg AVRA) but the last thing I want to do is swap a
> limited but reliable assembler for one with more features but a much lower
> level of reliability. In particular, the ability to always produce code
that
> actually works as expected is valued :-)
>
> Can anyone recommend an AVR assembler with conditional assembly capability
> and good reliability. Free would be nice but "for money" is OK if it works
> well.
>
>
>
>         Russell McMahon

Hi Russell,

If you really can't find anything powerful enough for your needs you might
like to get a copy of the XCASM meta assembler and define an AVR module for
it. Processor definitions are very high level and easy to do (including
defining the syntax), and it has a wealth of macro and conditional
capabilities built-in. It also support 32 bit IEEE floating point directly
(no need for external conversion utilities) so you can generate complex
floating point and fixed point tables quickly and easily, not to mention
in-line floating point literals (immediate constants). It also lets you
control placement of code and data within the assembly phase (normally done
by the linker by which time the assembler has lost control) so final
placement can be used to determine  the code generated by macros and
conditional assembly statements. XCASM is available from
http://www.xcprod.com

Regards
Sergio Masci

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'[AVR] Boot loader program'
2003\04\04@105328 by John Pearson
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I am looking at the AVR109 App note about the boot loader program. They reference Main.c, Serial.c, and Assembly.s90.

I have searched for these codes and cannot find them. Could someone give me a clue as to where they might be found?

Or, are there other, better, Boot loader programs to be had?

Thanks

John

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2003\04\04@123231 by George Smith

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On 4 Apr 2003, at 7:53, John Pearson wrote:

> I am looking at the AVR109 App note about the boot loader program. They
> reference Main.c, Serial.c, and Assembly.s90.
>
> I have searched for these codes and cannot find them. Could someone give me a
> clue as to where they might be found?

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/avr109.zip


George Smith

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'[AVR] Codevision and bootloader AVR109'
2003\04\05@110247 by John Pearson

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The software for app note AVR109 includes a Codevision PRJ file. When I use it in Codevision, I get a "Bad data in PRJ file" error message. I have tried creating a new project with the supplied files but am not really proficient enough with Codevision to get everything to come together.
Any ideas what may be wrong with the supplied PRJ file, or perhaps the CV environment needs some adjustments?

Thanks
John



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2003\04\05@120134 by Andreas Doktar

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I think the project is created with IAR Workbench...


Andreas

John Pearson wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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'[AVR]: AVR USB controller in firmware'
2003\04\11@084407 by Russell McMahon

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Fully firmware AVR USB peripheral implementation. Nice.
Comprehensive website.

       http://www.cesko.host.sk/IgorPlugUSB/IgorPlug-USB%20(AVR)_eng.htm

An amazing achievement.



               RM

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2003\04\11@101101 by Katinka Mills

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Would be nice if I could get the software down :o(

I have a T1 and it is running slower than my old 9600bps modem ;o)

Regards,

Kat.

> {Original Message removed}

2003\04\11@111030 by George Smith

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On 11 Apr 2003, at 22:08, Katinka Mills wrote:

> Would be nice if I could get the software down :o(
>
> I have a T1 and it is running slower than my old 9600bps modem ;o)
his mirror at:-
{HYPERLINK "http://cryo.pslib.cz/~cesko"}http://cryo.pslib.cz/~cesko
was faster


George Smith

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2003\04\11@234148 by Katinka Mills

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [.....PICLISTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of George Smith
> Sent: Friday, 11 April 2003 11:09 PM
> To: .....PICLISTTakeThisOuTspamEraseMEMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [AVR]: AVR USB controller in firmware
>
>
> On 11 Apr 2003, at 22:08, Katinka Mills wrote:
>
> > Would be nice if I could get the software down :o(
> >
> > I have a T1 and it is running slower than my old 9600bps modem ;o)
> his mirror at:-
>  {HYPERLINK "http://cryo.pslib.cz/~cesko"}http://cryo.pslib.cz/~cesko
> was faster
>
>
> George Smith

It is funny, tried this AM and I got it down at 100K a sec, but last nite it
was bytes per sec and timeouts :o(

Oh well now I can play with it :o)

Regards,

Kat.
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'[AVR]: Decoupling Aref when using AVcc on ADC'
2003\05\09@110428 by John Pearson
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Refering to the MEGA8 ADC reference voltage, two sources mention decoupling Aref pin with a capacitor when using AVcc as the voltage reference.

I am unable to find what capacitor value or how to install.
So can I assume I use a .1uF mono tant. between AVcc and ground?

Thanks

John

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2003\05\09@111454 by Dave VanHorn

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At 08:17 AM 5/9/2003 -0700, John Pearson wrote:
>Refering to the MEGA8 ADC reference voltage, two sources mention
>decoupling Aref pin with a capacitor when using AVcc as the voltage reference.
>
>I am unable to find what capacitor value or how to install.

That's because it's up to you, and the right answer depends on your system
noise.

>So can I assume I use a .1uF mono tant. between AVcc and ground?

Sure.
I also put a 10 ohm resistor in series with AVCC, and a local bypass there.

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2003\05\09@195006 by John Samperi

picon face
At 08:17 AM 9/05/03 -0700, you wrote:
>Refering to the MEGA8 ADC reference voltage, two sources mention
>decoupling Aref pin with a capacitor when using AVcc as the voltage
reference.
>
>I am unable to find what capacitor value or how to install.
>
>So can I assume I use a .1uF mono tant. between AVcc and ground?

John

The AT90S8535 specs show a 100R in series with AVCC and a 10nF
from AVCC to ground. But as David mentioned you may have to adjust
these to your condition. I'm using the above values in one of my boards.

Regards

John Samperi

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'[AVR]: STK500 opinions'
2003\05\26@231346 by Robert Ussery

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Howdy!

Anyone have any experience with the Atmel AVR starter kit, STK500?
I just ran across this in Digikey for $79 U.S., and thought it was a typo. Supposedly all that's required is the AVR Studio software (free, I guess... I'm downloading it from the Atmel site, but I haven't really seen whether it's an eval. version or not.), and a power supply.
What's the catch?! Any reasons why I shouldn't purchase this system?
I'm interested in getting started with the AVR's, but I've always thought a dev. kit and IDE cost about $1000.

- Robert

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2003\05\27@001911 by Katinka Mills

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{Quote hidden}

I have lots of experience with them :o) I own 2 lol

The software is free to download and fully functional, yes it is a free IDE
:o)

I use them in professional design work, I just use the switches and leds
during development and use the ISP system to program the target :o)

I also use the ICE 200 (which costs around us$200 IIRC) but that only works
for older chips that are being phased out, now we use the Jtag ICE but it
needs the final PCB to work as it does the simulation on the actual part.

If you need any help, just join the AVR-Chat yahoo group :o)


Regards,

Kat.

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2003\05\27@001919 by hard Prosser

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No experience with the STK500 but AVR Studio is free and you can make a
parallel port programmer for a $1 or so.
do a web search for "Sample Electronics" programmer or download the
evaluation version of BASCOM. You can use the BASCOM programming software
to program the assembled files even if you don't want to use BASIC.

Cheap, easy & seems to work OK.
You'll still need to buy the AVR chips though. (The ATMega series are
pretty useful)

$79 for a proper starter kit looks like a good deal even so.


Richard P





Howdy!

Anyone have any experience with the Atmel AVR starter kit, STK500?
I just ran across this in Digikey for $79 U.S., and thought it was a typo.
Supposedly all that's required is the AVR Studio software (free, I guess...
I'm downloading it from the Atmel site, but I haven't really seen whether
it's an eval. version or not.), and a power supply.
What's the catch?! Any reasons why I shouldn't purchase this system?
I'm interested in getting started with the AVR's, but I've always thought a
dev. kit and IDE cost about $1000.

- Robert

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2003\05\27@074847 by Russell McMahon

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flavicon
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> Anyone have any experience with the Atmel AVR starter kit, STK500?

Work well.
Do exactly what they are meant to do.
Fairly limited functionality but entirely usable.
Excellent cycle time from run-modify-assemble-run (seconds).
Lots of sockets for on board programming and/or running various types OR use
ISP connectors.

A few gotchas getting some AVR's to program and run via ISP (eg ATtiny26)
but that's not the kits fault and it is doable.

Good value.

Zilog ICE's are often even better value, but then you;d have to use a Z8 :-)
(Actually, Z8 is an excellent processor architecturally - Zilog and some
practical implementation aspects I have been less happy with).



       Russell McMahon

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2003\05\27@133126 by Robert Ussery

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Thanks for your help, Russ, Katinka, Rich!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Russell McMahon"

<snip>

> Fairly limited functionality but entirely usable.

Limited just by the number of AVR's compatible with it? How else?

> Lots of sockets for on board programming and/or running various types OR
use
> ISP connectors.

Cool... I love ISP!

> A few gotchas getting some AVR's to program and run via ISP (eg ATtiny26)
> but that's not the kits fault and it is doable.

'K, shouldn't be a prob, as I'll only be using one or two AVR's, I'll make
sure to get ones that will work!

> Zilog ICE's are often even better value, but then you;d have to use a Z8
:-)
> (Actually, Z8 is an excellent processor architecturally - Zilog and some
> practical implementation aspects I have been less happy with).

Yeah, I've been looking at the Z8's also, but decided against them given the
criticism they've received on this list. :O)
Thanks again, TTYL.

- Trebor :O)

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2003\05\27@145342 by Douglas Wood

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If I remember correctly, I think the STK500 was superceded by the STK501(?).
I've used the STK200, STK300, and STK500 all with excellent results. I think
ATMEL pulled support for the '500 about the time I was using it
(Q4/01-Q1/02). You might give ATMEL a call (or email) and inquire about
that.

Douglas Wood
Software Engineer
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STFUOLIN

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{Original Message removed}

2003\05\27@151636 by David VanHorn

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At 01:52 PM 5/27/2003 -0500, Douglas Wood wrote:

>If I remember correctly, I think the STK500 was superceded by the STK501(?).

Nope. The 501 is an add-on board, with external SRAM and ZIF connector for the M128 in TQFP and a couple other of the Mega line.
The ZIF connector alone is priced at about $200 if bought separately.


>I've used the STK200, STK300, and STK500 all with excellent results. I think ATMEL pulled support for the '500 about the time I was using it

The 500 is absolutely current. I'm using them now.

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'[AVR]: AVR Studio 3.0'
2003\05\30@233513 by Robert Ussery

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Hi, all.
   Anyone out there have a copy of the AVR Studio 3.0 install program they can send me? I need an AVR compiler with C support, and they don't support C with 4.0 yet.
   Please send me an e-mail (spamuavscienceRemoveMEspamfrii.com) saying you have it, before actually sending it, as I have a dial-up, and need to plan out any significant downloads. :O)
Thanks!

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2003\05\30@235837 by John Samperi

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At 09:32 PM 30/05/03 -0600, you wrote:
>Hi, all.
> Anyone out there have a copy of the AVR Studio 3.0 install
>program they can send me?

You can download version 3.56 at the Atmel site.

Regards

John Samperi

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2003\05\31@005649 by Robert Ussery

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Oops. Duhhhh... Thanks!

- Robert :O)



----- Original Message -----
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To: <KILLspamPICLISTspamKILLspammitvma.mit.edu>
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 9:54 PM
Subject: Re: [PICLIST] [AVR]: AVR Studio 3.0


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2003\05\31@005701 by William Chops Westfield

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   Anyone out there have a copy of the AVR Studio 3.0 install program
   they can send me? I need an AVR compiler with C support, and they
   don't support C with 4.0 yet.

Looks like AVRFreaks still has it available for download:

http://www.avrfreaks.com/Tools/showtools.php?ToolID=104

BillW

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'[AVR:] Atmel seminars'
2003\05\31@005902 by William Chops Westfield

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Speaking of AVRs, I notice that Atmel is repeating their one-day free seminar:

   http://www.atmel.com/seminar/mcu/

I went to this last year, and found it to be an unusually good balance
between marketing and engineering talks.  And while the advertised free
give-aways are pretty nice (last year, a STK-500, this year an AVR
"butterfly"), the seminar may include additional offers for free stuff
(last year I got a STK-594 SLIC daughtercard for the STK-500, but I
missed connecting with the Atmel rep who wanted to hand-deliver the
500, so I'm not exactly operational at the moment :-()

BillW

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'[AVR]: Development Environment'
2003\06\02@043822 by Werner Soekoe
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Hi

I want to create a project with the Atmel 89C1051 microcontroller. Will Atmel's AVR Studio 4 support development for this microcontroller, or is a 51 series specific compiler required?

Thanks

Werner

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2003\06\02@044650 by Katinka Mills

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [TakeThisOuTPICLISTKILLspamspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Werner Soekoe
> Sent: Monday, 2 June 2003 4:22 PM
> To: PICLISTspam_OUTspamspamBeGoneMITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: [AVR]: Development Environment
>
>
> Hi
>
> I want to create a project with the Atmel 89C1051
> microcontroller. Will Atmel's AVR Studio 4 support development
> for this microcontroller, or is a 51 series specific compiler required?
>
> Thanks
>
> Werner


A 51 series compiler is required.

Regards,

Kat.
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'[AVR]: TWI mode'
2003\06\13@230142 by Sean Breheny

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Hi all,

I'm trying to use the TWI interface on two Atmega128s to make them talk
to each other. It is mostly working but occasionally, the master will get
stuck with its SCL line high and SDA line low. Even if I disconnect it
from the slave it remains this way. As far as I know, there isn't
supposed to be any way for a master to get stuck unless the slave is
pulling the clock line low.

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Sean

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'[AVR]: More TWI problem info'
2003\06\14@202501 by Sean Breheny

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Hi all,

I have a bit more info on the problem I'm having with using TWI on an
ATmega128:

I have two ATmega128s talking via TWI. One is always master, the other
always slave. There are no other devices on the bus.

The master occasionally "locks up". It does so right after you command a
stop condition after completing a master receive operation. When I say
"locks up" I do not mean that the process stops running code (it is still
running code) but rather that the TWI interface seems to stop working.
That is, it never finishes the stop command (the TWSTO bit stays high and
the SDA line stays low). This happens even without the slave connected
(so the slave is not the one pulling the SDA line low).

Also strange is that I have a JTAG ICE and when
I use it to debug the problem, the following happens:

I have a loop after I command the STOP operation where I wait for the
TWSTO bit to go low (indicating that the STOP operation is completed).
When I use the ICE to break the processor during the TWI malfunction, and
then inspect the TWCR, I see that TWSTO is set and TWWC is clear. If I
then single step once, the TWWC bit goes high. I have a breakpoint on my
TWI interrupt routine so I can make sure that no TWI interrupt happens
during that single step and it doesn't, so there should be no part of my
code that could be writing to the TWDR during that step, which, as I
understand, is the only way that TWWC should be able to go from clear to set.

Any ideas? I've spent the whole day on this and I'm beginning to get
desperate :-) My next step is to try another board in case there is a
hardware problem. Luckily, I have another board to try.

Sean

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2003\06\16@023730 by hael Rigby-Jones

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{Quote hidden}

Do you have the correct value pullups on the master?

Mike


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2003\06\16@104950 by Sean H. Breheny

face picon face
Hi Mike,

I have 2.2k resistors to 5V(Vdd) from both the SDA and SCL lines right next
to the master. I did originally have 1k resistors but then I found out that
this just barely violated a 3mA max pull-down current spec for the
ATmega128's TWI module, so I switched them to 2.2k with no change in operation.

I have since "fixed" the problem by having a time-out on the loop that
waits for the transfer to complete and having my code reset the TWI after
each transfer. However, once every few thousand transfers, I still get the
wrong value (which may or may not be the same problem, I'll have to look
into it further).

Sean

At 07:37 AM 6/16/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>Do you have the correct value pullups on the master?
>
>Mike

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'[AVR] Newbie in the block....'
2003\06\16@182434 by Carlos Marcano

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Hi folks... I have been using PICS for a while and now I would like to try
the ATMEL´s little beasts. I would like to build my own programmer, so on a
cheap (or free!!) basis, which software/hardware programmer combination
would you recomend? Thax for your time...

Regards,
*Carlos*

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2003\06\16@183421 by Marcelo Puhl

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       I use the Atmel AVRISP software with a 74HC244 based 'dongle'.
       Both are free. Google for them. In case you can't find them,
drop me a note and I send'em to your email.

On 16 Jun 2003 at 18:23, Carlos Marcano wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\06\16@183628 by hard Prosser

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Carlos
If you go to the BASCOM site, (http://www.mcselec.com)  you can download an
eval copy of the software & it includes instructions for the "Sample
Electronics" programmer. This runs off the parallel port & only requires a
couple of resistors & an (optional) cap.

I've found this works well & can be used with programs written in machine
code using the Atmel "Studio" software.
You can of course use the BASCOM software as well - which is a pretty easy
way to get things up & running - with machine code functions etc. for
critical timing areas.

Richard P




Hi folks... I have been using PICS for a while and now I would like to try
the ATMEL´s little beasts. I would like to build my own programmer, so on a
cheap (or free!!) basis, which software/hardware programmer combination
would you recomend? Thax for your time...

Regards,
*Carlos*

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2003\06\16@184453 by Carlos Marcano

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Hi Marcelo,

I found a pdf file from olymex that looks like the 74HC244 dongle you were
talking about... What software should I use? Could you email it to me?
Thanx for your time....

Regards,
*Carlos*
TakeThisOuTcarlosmarcano78KILLspamspamcantv.net
{Original Message removed}

2003\06\17@111303 by Douglas Wood

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I apologize to the LIST for the attachment. It was meant to be sent offline.

Douglas Wood
Software Engineer
RemoveMEdbwoodTakeThisOuTspamspamkc.rr.com
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STFUOLIN

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{Original Message removed}

2003\06\17@113826 by John Ferrell

face picon face
Thanks for putting it on the list.
I bet I am not the only one who finds it interesting.

John Ferrell
6241 Phillippi Rd
Julian NC 27283
Phone: (336)685-9606
.....johnferrell@spam@spamspamBeGoneearthlink.net
Dixie Competition Products
NSRCA 479 AMA 4190  W8CCW
"My Competition is Not My Enemy"

{Original Message removed}

2003\06\17@114613 by Douglas Wood

picon face
I have a "wire-only" version of the cable if you're interested...

Douglas Wood
Software Engineer
STOPspamdbwoodTakeThisOuTspamkc.rr.com
ICQ#: 143841506

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{Original Message removed}

2003\06\17@115234 by Joel Middleton

picon face
Yes I find it interesting also, is this all that is
need as far as hardware goes to program the chips you
were talking about? If so I may give it a try after I
get a bit more comfortable with pics.

--- John Ferrell <TakeThisOuTjohnferrell@spam@spamEARTHLINK.NET> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> {Original Message removed}

2003\06\17@140414 by Douglas Wood

picon face
> Yes I find it interesting also, is this all that is
> need as far as hardware goes to program the chips you
> were talking about? If so I may give it a try after I
> get a bit more comfortable with pics.

Yes. That "dongle" and PonyProg is all that is required to program an AVR
from the parallel port.

Note that on some of the AVR processors, the in-system programming (ISP)
interface share pins with a UART. You may need to add a MUX to the design to
isolate the two functions. I can provide you with an example schematic if
you need.

Douglas Wood
Software Engineer
dbwoodTakeThisOuTspamKILLspamkc.rr.com
ICQ#: 143841506

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2003\06\17@180602 by John Ferrell

face picon face
At the moment I am swamped with what I want to learn about PIC's. I received
Peatman's book this week and I am already working from a list.

The AVR's will be limited to gathering data for a while!

I would love to have the info to read & file though.
John Ferrell
6241 Phillippi Rd
Julian NC 27283
Phone: (336)685-9606
johnferrellspamBeGonespamspamearthlink.net
Dixie Competition Products
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"My Competition is Not My Enemy"

{Original Message removed}

'[AVR]: Reading EEPROM when lockbits are set ?'
2003\06\18@055259 by Reelf Monsees

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Hi,
we have to service a device containing a AT90S1200. Unfortunately, there is no documentation at all. The relevant information is
stored in the EEPROM of the controller, program-data doesn't matter for
us as we have write a new program anyway. As both lockbits are set, reading the EEPROM with a programmer is not
possible (or is it?). So we could write a program for the 90S1200
that transmits the data from the EEPROM trough one pin serially.
But there doesn't seem to be a way to erase and rewrite the program-
memory without erasing the EEPROM as well (or is there ?).
If anybody comes up with an idea, that would be great !

regards,
   Reelf
-- SyWiTec *  Systeme für Wissenschaft und Technik
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  Fon +49-421-646775 * Fax +49-421-646785
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'[AVR] Newbie in the block....'
2003\06\18@145238 by osmarcano78

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Douglas,

Thanks for the information, I really apreciate your interest in helping...
I will begin to work with this as soon as I can... Thanx a lot,again!

Regards,

*Carlos*

----------- Mensaje Original --------------

De: Douglas Wood [RemoveMEdbwood.....spamKC.RR.COM]
Para: PICLIST.....spam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU [spam_OUTPICLISTEraseMEspam.....MITVMA.MIT.EDU]
Cc:
Asunto: Re: [AVR] Newbie in the block....
Fecha: 17/06/2003 11:01:26
Mensaje:


                               Carlos,

I've taken the liberty of sending you a copy a PDF file of the schematic of
the dongle that comes with the STK development boards from ATMEL. The
software I've use is called PonyProg and you can download (for free) the
latest version at http://www.lancos.com/ .  I have use both together to
develop several ATMEL-based projects, most recently using the ATmega103 &
ATmega128 chips.

Douglas Wood
Software Engineer
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ICQ#: 143841506

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{Original Message removed}


'[AVR]: AVRISP & Windows XP?'
2003\08\12@135122 by Marcelo Puhl
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       Hi,
       Is there a way to make AVRISP work on Windows XP with
a Kanda programmer?  A friend of mine are trying that but
it only works one of ten times...

       Thanks.
       Mark

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2003\08\12@135737 by David VanHorn

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At 02:51 PM 8/12/2003 -0300, Marcelo Puhl wrote:

>        Hi,
>        Is there a way to make AVRISP work on Windows XP with
>a Kanda programmer?  A friend of mine are trying that but
>it only works one of ten times...

You mean you're trying to drive an AVRISP programmer with Kanda software?

Why not use studio 3.x or 4.x? They work just fine.
Set the clock rate down a bit for reliability.

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2003\08\12@144404 by Marcelo Puhl

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       My friend is using the Atmel AVR ISP software. The programmer is
connected to the PC paralel port and has a 74HC244 driving the AVR.
       This setup work 100% on W98 but just 10% on XP :(

       I'll recommend he install AVR Studio.

       Thanks.
       Mark


On 12 Aug 2003 at 12:55, David VanHorn wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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2003\08\12@144817 by David VanHorn

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At 03:42 PM 8/12/2003 -0300, Marcelo Puhl wrote:

>        My friend is using the Atmel AVR ISP software. The programmer is
>connected to the PC paralel port and has a 74HC244 driving the AVR.
>        This setup work 100% on W98 but just 10% on XP :(
>
>        I'll recommend he install AVR Studio.

I don't know if Studio can drive that hardware.
the AVRISP runs through the serial port.

XP usually prevents you from accessing the parallel port directly.

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2003\08\13@005459 by BryanW

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Marcelo Puhl wrote:
>         Hi,
>         Is there a way to make AVRISP work on Windows XP with
> a Kanda programmer?  A friend of mine are trying that but
> it only works one of ten times...
>
>         Thanks.
>         Mark
>
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>
>

Hi,

If the software version is v2.65 then the software was made for older
win98 and lower OS versions. Some people have sucessfully made it work
with NT based systems but...

There is an upgrade for the software available at the http://www.kanda.com
website. Kanda's products are now owned by Embedded Results Ltd. If you
select In System Programming and then AVR the upgrade is listed there.
It costs 12USD by email, and works with XP.

We also do PIC programmers if anyone would like a browse :)

Thanks

Bryan (Software Engineer - Embedded Results Lrd)

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2003\08\13@070239 by Sten Dahlgren

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David VanHorn wrote:

> At 03:42 PM 8/12/2003 -0300, Marcelo Puhl wrote:
>
>
>>       My friend is using the Atmel AVR ISP software. The programmer is
>>connected to the PC paralel port and has a 74HC244 driving the AVR.
>>       This setup work 100% on W98 but just 10% on XP :(
>>
>>       I'll recommend he install AVR Studio.
>>
>
> I don't know if Studio can drive that hardware.
> the AVRISP runs through the serial port.
>
> XP usually prevents you from accessing the parallel port directly.
>

I'm useing the WinAVR collection with gcc and avrdude as the programmer
and it is working with my stk200 dongle in XP without any problems at all.

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2003\08\13@184402 by Liam O'Hagan

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Likewise my dontronics dt006 works perfectly with the parallel port and
windows XP...

{Quote hidden}

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'[AVR:] Software reset for M8 ?'
2003\08\29@105844 by John Pearson

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Is there any way to cause a reset from program code on the Mega8?

If not, can an i/o pin be tied to RESET and driven low to cause a reset from program code?

Thanks

John

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'[AVR]: IrDA message selection from a menu'
2003\09\04@125821 by Doug Hewett
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Eventually the primary will be a Palm and the secondary an ATmega128.  9600 baud.

During development the primary will be a PC.  I would like a PC application where the user can select a message (e.g. XID) from a menu and send it.  (I think this step-wise approach may be simpler than the 'big bang'.)

Using Codewright in hex I simulated an XID message:

unsigned char   cFF3F[ ] =
   {
   0xFF, 0xC0,                 // typical XBOF, BOF
   0xFF, 0x3F, 0x01, 0x00,     // 00 - 03
   0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0xFF,     // 04 - 07
   0xFF, 0xFF, 0xFF, 0x00,     // 08 - 11
   0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00,     // 12 - 15
   0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00,     // 16 - 19
   0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00,     // 20 - 23
   0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00,     // 24 - 27
   0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00,     // 28 - 31
   0x00, 0x00, 0x00, 0x00,     // 32 - 35
   0x7E, 0xF8,                 // 36 - 37 XCRC
   0xC1, 0xFF                  // typical EOF, XBOF
   };


Then, running Hyperterminal, I sent this as a text (i.e. not XMODEM, etc.) file.  The application's state machine detects XBOFs, the BOF, the CRC, etc., and moves the data into the stack's buffer.

The next step is to replace the null modem cable with IR transceivers.  (The PC's transceiver is a dongle.)

However I need an application that allows me to select a message (e.g. XID)  from a menu and send it.

How can I do this?

Thanks,

Doug Hewett, CSDP

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'[AVR:] Serin/Serout confusion'
2003\10\03@235818 by John Pearson
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Below is from a mailing list for ARV Bascom.

I was hoping someone here could help me with this, using Bascom.

....................................................................

Okay, I guess I have this down to just trying to send any varibles larger than 1 byte. Strings work okay,( but how can I convert a 4 byte varible to a string and add a CR to the end? Suggestions welcome.)

So when I send a word, long, etc. the received result is equal to only the LS byte of the varible sent.

Dim X as long
X = &B110000000

Master:
Serout X, 4, B, 1, 300, 0, 8, 1

Slave:
Serin X, 4, B, 1, 300, 0, 8, 1

Print X   ( X prints out as 128, or &B10000000)

So there must be some data conversion problem I am not addressing. X seems to "point" to the LSbyte, intead of representing a long varible.

John


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'[AVR]:Bootloaders and BOOTRST'
2003\11\10@232702 by Michael Milner
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Hi,

I've used PICs for quite some time and I've recently started dabbling with
AVRs (I like the gcc tool chain).

I've been trying to get a bootloader to work properly on the ATmega8.  The
bootloader code works, however I'm having trouble getting the AVR to start
in the bootloader when reset.

Supposedly programming (clearing) the BOOTRST fuse will cause the
processor to start at the beginning of the bootloader section on reset
(instead of at the application code at 0x0000).  Instead, the code starts
at the application code regardless of the value of the fuse.  Are their
any tricks to this?  Am I forgetting something?

I'm using the uisp programmer under Linux.  The following shows the
current value of the fuses:

[--START COMMAND PROMPT--]
[root@lh work]# /usr/local/bin/uisp -dlpt=0x378 -dprog=dapa --rd_fuses
Atmel AVR ATmega8 is found.

Fuse Low Byte      = 0xff
Fuse High Byte     = 0xc0
Fuse Extended Byte = 0xff
Calibration Byte   = 0xa4  --  Read Only
Lock Bits          = 0xff
   BLB12 -> 1
   BLB11 -> 1
   BLB02 -> 1
   BLB01 -> 1
     LB2 -> 1
     LB1 -> 1

[--END COMMAND PROMPT--]

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Mike

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2003\11\11@142618 by Richard.Prosser

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I've done a fair bit with the ATMega32 over the last few years (or, at
least a very similar chip).
Have used a bootloader extensively & no problems with the bootloader vector
at all.

Can you verify the fuse settings using a different programmer/reader ?

I guess other possibilities are  is that either your code is redirecting
the program flow incorrectly or that the bootloader vectors are at a
different location from where you expect them to be.

Richard P




Hi,

I've used PICs for quite some time and I've recently started dabbling with
AVRs (I like the gcc tool chain).

I've been trying to get a bootloader to work properly on the ATmega8.  The
bootloader code works, however I'm having trouble getting the AVR to start
in the bootloader when reset.

Supposedly programming (clearing) the BOOTRST fuse will cause the
processor to start at the beginning of the bootloader section on reset
(instead of at the application code at 0x0000).  Instead, the code starts
at the application code regardless of the value of the fuse.  Are their
any tricks to this?  Am I forgetting something?

I'm using the uisp programmer under Linux.  The following shows the
current value of the fuses:

[--START COMMAND PROMPT--]
[root@lh work]# /usr/local/bin/uisp -dlpt=0x378 -dprog=dapa --rd_fuses
Atmel AVR ATmega8 is found.

Fuse Low Byte      = 0xff
Fuse High Byte     = 0xc0
Fuse Extended Byte = 0xff
Calibration Byte   = 0xa4  --  Read Only
Lock Bits          = 0xff
   BLB12 -> 1
   BLB11 -> 1
   BLB02 -> 1
   BLB01 -> 1
     LB2 -> 1
     LB1 -> 1

[--END COMMAND PROMPT--]

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Mike

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'[AVR:] atmega128 +protel dxp'
2004\01\12@101407 by Also-Antal Csaba
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I need atmega128 sch lib for dxp. the original dxp not contains any lib
for atmel mcu-s (why?).

udv
Csaba

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2004\01\12@105558 by Peter Moreton

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part 1 999 bytes content-type:text/plain; (decoded 7bit)

Attached is an ATMEGA-128 design in Protel 99SE, which I recently
created. Includes the ATMEGA-128 part schematic which you are very
welcome to use.

Best wishes, Peter Moreton

(BTW, is a 29KB attachment considered too big for the PIClist??? - I
could have sent this privately, but the PIClist is about sharing, yes?)




{Original Message removed}
part 2 30158 bytes content-type:application/x-zip-compressed; (decode)

2004\01\12@170942 by Liam O'Hagan

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part 1 852 bytes content-type:text/plainHere's an AVR library I found somewhere for protel, includes almost all of
the AVR devices including the one you're interested in...

> {Original Message removed}
part 2 3643 bytes content-type:application/octet-stream; (decode)

2004\01\13@103046 by Also-Antal Csaba

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Liam O'Hagan wrote:

> Here's an AVR library I found somewhere for protel, includes almost all of
> the AVR devices including the one you're interested in...

thank for your help.

udv
Csaba

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'[AVR:] Source for ATMEGA32L in Australia'
2004\01\22@174231 by Liam O'Hagan

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Howdy everyone,

Does anyone know of a source for ATMEGA32L (must be L suffix) in Australia?

Dontronics can't source them, and I'm reluctant to order them from overseas
as shipping is often more than the product...

Any ideas??

Liam O'Hagan
Senior Engineer
GLI Australia
RemoveMEliamTakeThisOuTspamgli.com.au
Phone:  +61 2 9697 9844
Fax:    +61 2 9697 9855
Mobile:         +61 411 761 756

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2004\01\22@175518 by David Duffy

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Liam O'Hagan wrote:

>Howdy everyone,
>
>Does anyone know of a source for ATMEGA32L (must be L suffix) in Australia?
>
>Dontronics can't source them, and I'm reluctant to order them from overseas
>as shipping is often more than the product...
>
>Any ideas??
>

Hi Liam,
Atmel lists Braemac and Unique among the Australian distributors.
David...

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'[AVR]: C Compiler'
2004\02\16@183214 by Liam O'Hagan
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Howdy everyone,

I've been playing around with BASCOM AVR for a few months now, and it's
perfectly functional, but I'd like to move on to a more 'serious'
compiler...

Which would be the better choice?

GCC AVR?

IAR C

Another option?

Ideally something which can integrate into AVR Studio, or that has a nice
IDE of it's own, would be preferable.

Thanks for your suggestions!

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2004\02\16@183214 by Liam O'Hagan

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face
Howdy everyone,

I've been playing around with BASCOM AVR for a few months now, and it's
perfectly functional, but I'd like to move on to a more 'serious'
compiler...

Which would be the better choice?

GCC AVR?

IAR C

Another option?

Ideally something which can integrate into AVR Studio, or that has a nice
IDE of it's own, would be preferable.

Thanks for your suggestions!

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2004\02\16@184250 by stanton54

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AVRGCC is excellent, although you have to be very careful using the
optimizer (it gets a little over-enthusiastic about removing
'unnecessary' code). Haven't had any other problems with it. Besides,
you can't beat GCC's price, so it's worth at least trying.


Liam O'Hagan wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2004\02\16@184250 by stanton54

picon face
AVRGCC is excellent, although you have to be very careful using the
optimizer (it gets a little over-enthusiastic about removing
'unnecessary' code). Haven't had any other problems with it. Besides,
you can't beat GCC's price, so it's worth at least trying.


Liam O'Hagan wrote:
{Quote hidden}

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2004\02\16@184702 by ?Q?Pavel_Ko=F8ensk=FD?=

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I bought ICC AVR couple of years ago and I am totally happy with it.
Very good ANSI C compiler, excellent support from the author and good
price (something like 149 or 199 USD, I do not remember exactly).

Best regards


PavelK

> {Original Message removed}

2004\02\16@184702 by ?Q?Pavel_Ko=F8ensk=FD?=

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face
I bought ICC AVR couple of years ago and I am totally happy with it.
Very good ANSI C compiler, excellent support from the author and good
price (something like 149 or 199 USD, I do not remember exactly).

Best regards


PavelK

> {Original Message removed}

'[AVR]: GCC AVR 1Wire or iButton library'
2004\02\25@195548 by Liam O'Hagan

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Now that i have the GCC compiler installed and working nicely with my
programmer, I'm looking to hook up some iButtons that I have here...

Does anyone know of an iButton or generic 1 wire library for GCC AVR? I
don't want to reinvent the wheel if someone else has already done the
groundwork.

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'[AVR:] state of gcc for AVR?'
2004\02\28@004638 by William Chops Westfield

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What's current opinion on the state of the world
WRT the AVR implementation of GCC?

Thanks
Bill W

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2004\02\28@012309 by Robert Ussery

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>-----Original Message-----
>From: pic microcontroller discussion list [KILLspamPICLISTspamspamspam_OUTMITVMA.MIT.EDU]
>On Behalf Of William Chops Westfield
>Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:45 PM
>To: spamPICLIST.....spamTakeThisOuTMITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: [PICLIST] [AVR:] state of gcc for AVR?
>
>What's current opinion on the state of the world
>WRT the AVR implementation of GCC?

I'm using it right the moment (Yes, I'm a closet AVR Fanatic)...
I've found it very easy to use once you get used to the whole gcc
layout/procedure. If you have any experience with gcc, you should find
avr-gcc very easy to learn. The library is almost all standard ANSI-C,
except for stuff like variable definitions, which just requires an extra
library and some typedefs.

As far as quality, etc., I haven't run into any serious bugs, and the
avr-gcc compiler/optimizer is one of the most aggressive I've seen
(Something to be careful of, on occasion).

I'm lovin' it. Beats the heck out of Assembly for those giant projects!
Give it a try! It's free after all...


- Robert

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2004\02\29@175429 by Liam O'Hagan

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I'm using it at the moment and I find it excellent. Being free helps too!

The documentation can be a bit light on in some parts but there are plenty
of helpful projects and tutorials at http://www.avrfreaks.com



> {Original Message removed}

2004\02\29@192227 by Mark Jordan

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       I'm planning to use the WinAVR on my next project with an ATMEGA162.
       Is there a tutorial on how to start using it?

       Thanks,
       Mark Jordan, PY3SS


On 1 Mar 2004 at 9:56, Liam O'Hagan wrote:

> I'm using it at the moment and I find it excellent. Being free helps too!
>
> The documentation can be a bit light on in some parts but there are plenty
> of helpful projects and tutorials at http://www.avrfreaks.com
>
>
>
> > {Original Message removed}

2004\02\29@194338 by Liam O'Hagan

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Yep, download WinAVR from AVRfreaks, it's a single package.

It includes "Programmer's Notepad" which is it's "IDE" You can use AVR
studio 3.x but it's a fair bit of fiddling to set it up. Programmer's
notepad includes configurable tools, so you can have menu options for Build,
Erase, Download etc etc

I use programmer's notepad to write the code, and AVRDude as (command line)
programming software. Programmer's notepad invokes AVRDude and captures the
output, meaning it's one program to write the code and download to the
device.

For example, I have the following tools for PN:

Tool Name :     Command
GCC Make        Make
Erase           D:\WinAVR\bin\avrdude.exe -p m162 -c dt006
Download        D:\WinAVR\bin\avrdude.exe -p m162 -U flash:w:%n.hex (which
includes an erase cycle before programming, and a verify cycle afterwards,
so the above tool isn't used much)

%n is the filename without extension, so if your current source code was
called source.c, %n.hex would be source.hex

-p is the device, in this case Mega162...

I'd recommend getting hold of ProjectID: 59, general peripheral drivers by a
guy called hendrix (Chris Efstathiou) from AVR Freaks, very well documented
peripherals library...

> {Original Message removed}


'[AVR:] Tools for linux...'
2004\03\22@040519 by William Chops Westfield
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Is there a pre-packaged set of linux tools for AVR development?
I found WINAVR, and expected it to lead pretty quickly to either an
equivalent package for linux, or at least sources, but the non-windows
development is looking a lot more confused than that...
I'm looking for assembler, linker, compiler, a tool to talk
to a stk-500 board (AVRDUDE?), and whatever else is useful.  I think
I see all the individual tools, but no organization...

Thanks
Bill W

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'[AVR:] Looking for an AVR FFT tutorial'
2004\04\18@093453 by Mark Jordan
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       Hi,

       I'm looking for a tutorial on how to write a FFT routine
in assembler language for the AVR AtMega uP.
       Have found one dealing with the Goertzel algorithm and
it works very nice.
       Google shows me zillions of FFT links, but nothing using
an AVR.

       Thanks for any help.
       Mark Jordan

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2004\04\19@165242 by Richard.Prosser

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Hi Mark,
I don't have a tutorial, but may be able to assist with sample code. (and
other help if required)

I am working on one of these at the moment. Have just about got it working
OK - am aiming at using it in an entry in the Circuit Cellar Contest.
Basic details are:-

Using Atmega323. (or AtMega32)

64 sample x 10bit  (results in 32 output frequency bins. e.g 8KHz sampling
will result in a resolution of ~125Hz)
Conversion time ~20mS on a 3.6864 MHz clock (Slightly dependent on signal
complexity as I only calculate the magnetude square root if the frequency
component is significant)
- I am aiming for speed rather than size
RAM Memory requirement (hopefully) < 300 bytes. (Using same array for
input, calculation & output - am still working on this & have yet to decide
which arrangement suits me best)
Flash Memory requirement is about 3k or so for the FFT module.

I am using the BASCOM environment for debugging & simulation & have found
some problems with their multiply directives, although that now appears
fixed.If I can use the mulsu & muls directives I may be able to shave a few
100uS more off the conversion time.

I am also thinking of writing an 8 bit version, possibly for up to 128
samples in length. As this will use the 8 bit multiply directive for most
multiplies, then program operation should be similar in speed to the 10 bit
64 sample version .

I can send you more info if required, but note that this is still "in
process" so there are probably bugs etc. hanging around.
I have also offered a copy to Mark for inclusion in a BASCOM library so it
may turn up there in a little while.

Right now I'm trying to tie the bits together so I can get a FFT or
spectrograph type display on an LCD, so  I can monitor what is going on in
realtime & see if the thing is actually working as advertised.

Richard P




                   Mark Jordan
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       Hi,

       I'm looking for a tutorial on how to write a FFT routine
in assembler language for the AVR AtMega uP.
       Have found one dealing with the Goertzel algorithm and
it works very nice.
       Google shows me zillions of FFT links, but nothing using
an AVR.

       Thanks for any help.
       Mark Jordan

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'[AVR:] WinAVR Problem'
2004\04\20@090017 by Herbert Graf

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Hello all, trying to get my feet wet with the AVR and have bumped into the
following problem with WinAVR:

> "make.exe" all
avr-gcc -g -Wall -O2 -mmcu=at90s2313    -c -o demo.o demo.c
avr-gcc: installation problem, cannot exec `cc1': No such file or directory
make.exe: *** [demo.o] Error 1

> Process Exit Code: 2

Anybody have a clue as to why this is happening? I've tried reinstalling
WinAVR, I've tried a different version of WinAVR, all with the same result?
Thanks, TTYL

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'[AVR:] Looking for an AVR FFT tutorial'
2004\04\20@102306 by Mark Jordan

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On 20 Apr 2004 at 8:43, TakeThisOuTRichard.ProsserKILLspamspamPOWERWARE.COM wrote:

> I don't have a tutorial, but may be able to assist with sample code. (and
> other help if required)

       Thanks Richard, I appreciated that.

       Have read lots of info about FFT, but still don't get it right.
       I found an excelent description of the Goertzel algorithm here:

       http://www.embedded.com/story/OEG20020819S0057

       Based on that info, I wrote a program to do it using an ATmega8.
       It worked nicely detecting DTMF tones! And it is very versatile
and easy to tweak up!
       The assembler program used 10bit samples scaled to 12bit and the
coefficients scaled to 14bits. All the multiplys are 16bit.

       Well, what I'm trying to design is an 8 or 16 tone AFSK modem.
       Based on what I have read, it seems Goertzel is just one form
of calculating the FFT. But will it give me the best results?

       Do you know of some page describing the FFT process like that
one on the Goertzel algorithm?

       Thanks.
       Mark Jordan

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'[AVR:] WinAVR Problem'
2004\04\20@105004 by Jay Shroff

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Do you see cc1.exe on your computer anywhere? The error seems to indicate that the cc1.exe is missing.
In my install I see that file in C:\WINAVR\lib\gcc-lib\avr\3.3.1

Jay
{Original Message removed}

2004\04\20@114313 by Herbert Graf

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> Do you see cc1.exe on your computer anywhere? The error seems to
> indicate that the cc1.exe is missing.
>
> In my install I see that file in C:\WINAVR\lib\gcc-lib\avr\3.3.1
>
> Jay

       Hmm, yup, it's there, in the exact same place as yours, only difference is mine is in a 3.3.2 directory (I guess it's a slightly newer version?). Is the location of this file stored in a config file somewhere or something like that? Thanks, TTYL


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'[AVR:] Looking for an AVR FFT tutorial'
2004\04\20@170052 by Richard.Prosser

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Hi Mark,
The approach I used was to locate a simple FFT example on the net, and
transcribe it into BASCOM (not hard, BASCOM BASIC is not too far from C in
some areas).
Then, once this was working, I split the overall algorithm into the 3 main
parts (re-ordering, "butterfly" and magnitude derivation) and got each part
running separately in assembler. Then optimised the parts for maximum
speed. Put the parts together & got it all working . Along the way I had to
look into integer multiply routines in assembler and fast square roots etc.
That's pretty much where I am now.
The web site I used for my initial code was (I think)
http://www.8052.com/users/steve/FFTC.C  , which is an FFT example for the
8052 micro. He claims 700mS for a 64 sample conversion with a 12MHz clock,
whereas I am running at about 20mS with a <4MHz clock on the atmel chip. I
think the hardware multiply is responsible for a large part if this as
there are something like 384 integer multiply operations in the butterfly
section, plus more in  the magnitude calculation.

As far as comparing the Goertzel algorithm with the FFT I think it is a
question of what you are actually trying to do.
My impression is that the Goertzel algorithm aims at identifying a single
frequency component in a signal, basically using a IIR filter. It is
capable of running more or less "on the fly" once a certain number of
samples have been obtained. However, if you want to identify N frequency
components, then you have to run N processes in parallel. The FFT
implementation runs in a "batch" mode, where you take the samples and then
process them. You can take more samples into another array while
processing, bit you do not get the capability to process a continuous
input.
Once you get above a certain number (Depends on requirements), then an FFT
can become more speed efficient. The G algorithm  revolves around IIR
filters however and  memory (RAM) requirements are significantly less.
The figures I have seen suggest that for DTMF decoding - detection of 8 (or
16? - second harmonic detection is often used to minimise false detects)
tones using a smallish sample size, then there is little to choose in terms
of number of calculations between the 2 methods. The G. algorithm will use
less RAM however.
Another plus for the G. Algorithm is that the coefficients & sampling rate
etc. can be chosen to exactly match the frequencies being sought, whereas
with the FFT, then frequency bins are always a multiple of a base frequency
and so may not always match a range of frequency values. This is
particularly true of DTMF tones which were deliberately chosen not to be
harmonically related. So the frequency components will not fit nicely into
8 bins and sensitivity and/or overall program complexity suffers.
On the other hand, if you are wanting to develop a spectral display of a
signal where you may not know or care about particular tones, , the FFT
methods are preferable to the G. algorithm as all frequency components drop
out of a single process.

Hope this assists

Richard P

Incidentally, I'd be interested in looking at you Goertzel implementation
if possible!




                   Mark Jordan
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On 20 Apr 2004 at 8:43, Richard.Prosserspam_OUTspamPOWERWARE.COM wrote:

> I don't have a tutorial, but may be able to assist with sample code. (and
> other help if required)

       Thanks Richard, I appreciated that.

       Have read lots of info about FFT, but still don't get it right.
       I found an excelent description of the Goertzel algorithm here:

       http://www.embedded.com/story/OEG20020819S0057

       Based on that info, I wrote a program to do it using an ATmega8.
       It worked nicely detecting DTMF tones! And it is very versatile
and easy to tweak up!
       The assembler program used 10bit samples scaled to 12bit and the
coefficients scaled to 14bits. All the multiplys are 16bit.

       Well, what I'm trying to design is an 8 or 16 tone AFSK modem.
       Based on what I have read, it seems Goertzel is just one form
of calculating the FFT. But will it give me the best results?

       Do you know of some page describing the FFT process like that
one on the Goertzel algorithm?

       Thanks.
       Mark Jordan

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'[AVR:] WinAVR Problem'
2004\04\20@190457 by Robert L Cochran

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What is in your path?

Bob Cochran

Herbert Graf wrote:

{Quote hidden}

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'[AVR:] Looking for an AVR FFT tutorial'
2004\04\20@191117 by Mark Jordan

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On 21 Apr 2004 at 8:52, KILLspamRichard.ProsserEraseMEspamspam_OUTPOWERWARE.COM wrote:

> The web site I used for my initial code was (I think)
> http://www.8052.com/users/steve/FFTC.C, which is an FFT example for the
> 8052 micro.

       Thanks, that seems to be a very good example!

> As far as comparing the Goertzel algorithm with the FFT I think it is a
> question of what you are actually trying to do.
> My impression is that the Goertzel algorithm aims at identifying a single
> frequency component in a signal, basically using a IIR filter. It is
> capable of running more or less "on the fly" once a certain number of
> samples have been obtained.

       I do the eight filters at every sample. When I reach N samples,
I compute the eight magnitudes and get the two DTMF frequencies. The
whole process used less than 20mS at 4MHz clock.

>
> Incidentally, I'd be interested in looking at you Goertzel implementation
> if possible!

       Here is a MACRO I used at every sample, based on that article at:

       http://www.embedded.com/story/OEG20020819S0057

;
; At every sample, calculate for each frequency:
;
; Q0 = (coeff*Q1)/32768-Q2+sample
; Move Q1 to Q2
; Move Q0 to Q1
;
.macro SAMPLE                                   ; Q1l,Q1h,Q2l,Q2h,Coeff
               ldi     auxl, LOW(@4)
               ldi     auxh, HIGH(@4)
               lds     matl, @0
               lds     math, @1
               muls    math, auxh              ; (signed)Q1h * (signed)Coeffh
               movw    genl, prdl

               mul     matl, auxl              ; Q1l * Coeffl
               mov     intemp, prdh

               mulsu auxh, matl                ; (signed)Coeffh * Q1l
               sbc     genh, zero
               add     intemp, prdl
               adc     genl, prdh
               adc     genh, zero

               mulsu math, auxl                ; (signed)Q1h * Coeffl
               sbc     genh, zero
               add     intemp, prdl
               adc     genl, prdh
               adc     genh, zero              ; (Q1*Coeff)>>16

               lsl     genl
               rol     genh                            ; (Q1*Coeff)<<1

               lds     auxl, @2
               lds     auxh, @3
               sub     genl, auxl
               sbc     genh, auxh              ; Sub Q2

               add     genl, XL
               adc     genh, XH                        ; Add current sample

               sts     @0, genl
               sts     @1, genh                        ; Q1 = Q0

               sts     @2, matl                        ; Q2 = Q1
               sts     @3, math
.endmacro                                               ; 45 clock cycles
;
;
; After N samples, calculate for each frequency:
;
; MAG = SQRT(Q1*Q1+Q2*Q2-(Q1*Q2*coeff)/32768)
;


       Mark Jordan

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'[AVR:] WinAVR Problem'
2004\04\20@195132 by Herbert Graf

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> What is in your path?
>
> Bob Cochran

       With regards to only WinAVR:

PATH=C:\WinAVR\bin
C:\WinAVR\utils\bin

Is the path to cc1 supposed to be in the path? If so why didn't the install
add it?

It feels like it's simply a config file problem.

Thanks, TTYL

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2004\04\20@202528 by Robert L Cochran

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Experiment. Quite a lot of software expects you to manually set the path.

Don't give up -- if others got it working, you can, too.

Bob

Herbert Graf wrote:

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'[AVR:] Looking for an AVR FFT tutorial'
2004\04\20@202735 by Richard.Prosser

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Thanks - will have to have a play with it!

RP



On 21 Apr 2004 at 8:52, Richard.ProsserRemoveMEspamPOWERWARE.COM wrote:

> The web site I used for my initial code was (I think)
> http://www.8052.com/users/steve/FFTC.C, which is an FFT example for the
> 8052 micro.

       Thanks, that seems to be a very good example!

> As far as comparing the Goertzel algorithm with the FFT I think it is a
> question of what you are actually trying to do.
> My impression is that the Goertzel algorithm aims at identifying a single
> frequency component in a signal, basically using a IIR filter. It is
> capable of running more or less "on the fly" once a certain number of
> samples have been obtained.

       I do the eight filters at every sample. When I reach N samples,
I compute the eight magnitudes and get the two DTMF frequencies. The
whole process used less than 20mS at 4MHz clock.

>
> Incidentally, I'd be interested in looking at you Goertzel implementation
> if possible!

       Here is a MACRO I used at every sample, based on that article at:

       http://www.embedded.com/story/OEG20020819S0057

;
; At every sample, calculate for each frequency:
;
; Q0 = (coeff*Q1)/32768-Q2+sample
; Move Q1 to Q2
; Move Q0 to Q1
;
.macro SAMPLE                                   ; Q1l,Q1h,Q2l,Q2h,Coeff
               ldi     auxl, LOW(@4)
               ldi     auxh, HIGH(@4)
               lds     matl, @0
               lds     math, @1
               muls    math, auxh              ; (signed)Q1h *
(signed)Coeffh
               movw    genl, prdl

               mul     matl, auxl              ; Q1l * Coeffl
               mov     intemp, prdh

               mulsu auxh, matl                ; (signed)Coeffh * Q1l
               sbc     genh, zero
               add     intemp, prdl
               adc     genl, prdh
               adc     genh, zero

               mulsu math, auxl                ; (signed)Q1h * Coeffl
               sbc     genh, zero
               add     intemp, prdl
               adc     genl, prdh
               adc     genh, zero              ; (Q1*Coeff)>>16

               lsl     genl
               rol     genh                            ; (Q1*Coeff)<<1

               lds     auxl, @2
               lds     auxh, @3
               sub     genl, auxl
               sbc     genh, auxh              ; Sub Q2

               add     genl, XL
               adc     genh, XH                        ; Add current
sample

               sts     @0, genl
               sts     @1, genh                        ; Q1 = Q0

               sts     @2, matl                        ; Q2 = Q1
               sts     @3, math
.endmacro                                               ; 45 clock cycles
;
;
; After N samples, calculate for each frequency:
;
; MAG = SQRT(Q1*Q1+Q2*Q2-(Q1*Q2*coeff)/32768)
;


       Mark Jordan

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2004\04\21@024050 by Richard.Prosser

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Thanks - will have to have a play with it!

RP



On 21 Apr 2004 at 8:52, spam_OUTRichard.Prosserspam_OUTspamspamPOWERWARE.COM wrote:

> The web site I used for my initial code was (I think)
> http://www.8052.com/users/steve/FFTC.C, which is an FFT example for the
> 8052 micro.

       Thanks, that seems to be a very good example!

> As far as comparing the Goertzel algorithm with the FFT I think it is a
> question of what you are actually trying to do.
> My impression is that the Goertzel algorithm aims at identifying a single
> frequency component in a signal, basically using a IIR filter. It is
> capable of running more or less "on the fly" once a certain number of
> samples have been obtained.

       I do the eight filters at every sample. When I reach N samples,
I compute the eight magnitudes and get the two DTMF frequencies. The
whole process used less than 20mS at 4MHz clock.

>
> Incidentally, I'd be interested in looking at you Goertzel implementation
> if possible!

       Here is a MACRO I used at every sample, based on that article at:

       http://www.embedded.com/story/OEG20020819S0057

;
; At every sample, calculate for each frequency:
;
; Q0 = (coeff*Q1)/32768-Q2+sample
; Move Q1 to Q2
; Move Q0 to Q1
;
macro SAMPLE                                   ; Q1l,Q1h,Q2l,Q2h,Coeff
               ldi     auxl, LOW(@4)
               ldi     auxh, HIGH(@4)
               lds     matl, @0
               lds     math, @1
               muls    math, auxh              ; (signed)Q1h *
(signed)Coeffh
               movw    genl, prdl

               mul     matl, auxl              ; Q1l * Coeffl
               mov     intemp, prdh

               mulsu auxh, matl                ; (signed)Coeffh * Q1l
               sbc     genh, zero
               add     intemp, prdl
               adc     genl, prdh
               adc     genh, zero

               mulsu math, auxl                ; (signed)Q1h * Coeffl
               sbc     genh, zero
               add     intemp, prdl
               adc     genl, prdh
               adc     genh, zero              ; (Q1*Coeff)>>16

               lsl     genl
               rol     genh                            ; (Q1*Coeff)<<1

               lds     auxl, @2
               lds     auxh, @3
               sub     genl, auxl
               sbc     genh, auxh              ; Sub Q2

               add     genl, XL
               adc     genh, XH                        ; Add current
sample

               sts     @0, genl
               sts     @1, genh                        ; Q1 = Q0

               sts     @2, matl                        ; Q2 = Q1
               sts     @3, math
endmacro                                               ; 45 clock cycles
;
;
; After N samples, calculate for each frequency:
;
; MAG = SQRT(Q1*Q1+Q2*Q2-(Q1*Q2*coeff)/32768)
;


       Mark Jordan

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'[AVR:] WinAVR Problem'
2004\04\21@034223 by Reelf Monsees

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Hi,
tried to install WinAVR myself, without success so far.
During the install-procedure I get the error-message that the program
"pn.exe is connected to the missing export-file USER32.DLL" and that's
it, systems halts and I have to restart the PC.
Any idea ?

regards,
   Reelf


Robert L Cochran schrieb:
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'[AVR:] ATmega162 programming...?AVRisp?'
2004\04\21@090436 by osmarcano78

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I just got my test kit from CircuitCellar for the AVR contest, an AVRisp. I
also got a couple of ATmega162 sample chips. I have to admit I havent got
my hands full on dirt yet with de AVRisp but I checked in the users guide
that came in the cd with the kit and tried to find in the supported devices
the Atmega162 and couldnt find it. Is that true? I asked for the wrong kind
of chip for the AVRisp? Is there a way I can use the AVRisp kit to program
the ATmega162? Maybe I am missing something, and I should look further, I
wish I could have more free time! Thanks for the help.

Regards,
*Carlos*

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2004\04\21@092635 by Kevin Olalde

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I'm close to the same position here, just received it yesterday but
haven't gotten my hands dirty yet.

The latest bits of documentation on the AVRISP does list it as a
supported part, but I think that's a recent addition.  I loaded software
from the net, not the stuff that came on the CD.

Kevin

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