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' Re: [OT] Having a proper treaded discussion or '
2005\05\09@201945 by Matthew Miller

flavicon
face
Hi John,

On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 07:49:42PM -0400, John Hansen wrote:
> I'm one of the people who does this.  Up until your message, I didn't
> realize that this caused a problem.  I guess I was under the impression
> that threads were defined by the subject and if the subject changed, it
> would be interpretted as a new thread.  If this is not the case, what
> field is keyed on to determine whether something is a thread or not?

It is the In-Reply-To field. For this message the field is:
In-Reply-To: <spam_OUT427FF716.1020907TakeThisOuTspamfredonia.edu>

The value of this field is supposed to be a globally unique id generated by
your mail reader. If a mail reader groups messages only by subject then
there is no way to tell who responded to whom (and thus can't display the
messages in a threaded view), the In-Reply-To field gets around this
problem.

Thanks for your interest! :)

Take care, Matthew.

--
"The typewriting machine, when played with expression, is no more annoying
than the piano when played by a sister or near relation."
                                                          -Oscar Wilde

2005\05\09@203631 by Richard.Prosser

flavicon
face

John
What mail reader are you using ? - looks quite usefiul.

Richard P



Hi John,

On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 07:49:42PM -0400, John Hansen wrote:
> I'm one of the people who does this.  Up until your message, I didn't
> realize that this caused a problem.  I guess I was under the impression
> that threads were defined by the subject and if the subject changed, it
> would be interpretted as a new thread.  If this is not the case, what
> field is keyed on to determine whether something is a thread or not?

It is the In-Reply-To field. For this message the field is:
In-Reply-To: <.....427FF716.1020907KILLspamspam@spam@fredonia.edu>

The value of this field is supposed to be a globally unique id generated by
your mail reader. If a mail reader groups messages only by subject then
there is no way to tell who responded to whom (and thus can't display the
messages in a threaded view), the In-Reply-To field gets around this
problem.

Thanks for your interest! :)

Take care, Matthew.





2005\05\09@222929 by Matthew Miller

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face
Hi Richard,

On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 12:34:25PM +1200, Richard.ProsserspamKILLspamPowerware.com wrote:
>
> John
> What mail reader are you using ? - looks quite usefiul.

I assume you're replying to me and not John, since you included my message
below. :) I use the Mutt mail reader under linux; it's a console
application. If you're going to read mail from the console it's better than
Pine IMO.

What mail reader are you using that didn't quote the message you were
replying to? I couldn't tell from the headers... After sending the first
message on this topic I'm ashamed that my nerd score wasn't higher. :(

Matthew (who is a geek, not a nerd!)

{Quote hidden}

--
"There are people fated to be silly; they not only perform silly acts by
choice, but are even constrained to do so by fortune."
      -- Francois, Duc de la Rochefoucauld (1630-1680)

2005\05\09@232142 by Richard.Prosser

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face

Hi Matt,
Yes - sorry about the wrong name.
FWIW I'm using Lotus Notes - although not really by choice! As I'm at work
I don't get a choice of mail readers, let alone operating systems.

I must admit to being one who uses previous messages to change topics - too
lazy to re-type _whatever the correct address is_  (EraseMEpiclistspam_OUTspamTakeThisOuTmit.edu ?).
I'll try & memd my ways - I wasn't aware that it could cause a problem.

RP



                                                                                                                               
                   Matthew                                                                                                    
                   Miller               To:     "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <piclistspamspam_OUTmit.edu>                  
                   <namiller2@na        cc:                                                                                    
                   xs.net>              Subject:     Re: [OT] Having a proper treaded discussion or how to use your mail      
                   Sent by:             reader.                                                                                
                   piclist-bounc                                                                                              
                   @spam@esKILLspamspammit.edu                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                               
                   10/05/05                                                                                                    
                   14:29                                                                                                      
                   Please                                                                                                      
                   respond to                                                                                                  
                   "Microcontrol                                                                                              
                   ler                                                                                                        
                   discussion                                                                                                  
                   list -                                                                                                      
                   Public."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                               




Hi Richard,

On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 12:34:25PM +1200, KILLspamRichard.ProsserKILLspamspamPowerware.com
wrote:
>
> John
> What mail reader are you using ? - looks quite usefiul.

I assume you're replying to me and not John, since you included my message
below. :) I use the Mutt mail reader under linux; it's a console
application. If you're going to read mail from the console it's better than
Pine IMO.

What mail reader are you using that didn't quote the message you were
replying to? I couldn't tell from the headers... After sending the first
message on this topic I'm ashamed that my nerd score wasn't higher. :(

Matthew (who is a geek, not a nerd!)

{Quote hidden}

by
{Quote hidden}

2005\05\10@041038 by Alan B. Pearce

face picon face
>I'm one of the people who does this.  Up until your message, I didn't
>realize that this caused a problem.  I guess I was under the impression
>that threads were defined by the subject and if the subject changed, it
>would be interpretted as a new thread.  If this is not the case, what
>field is keyed on to determine whether something is a thread or not?

So am I, and wondering the same thing.

2005\05\10@115920 by Bradley Ferguson

picon face
On 5/9/05, spamBeGoneRichard.ProsserspamBeGonespampowerware.com <TakeThisOuTRichard.ProsserEraseMEspamspam_OUTpowerware.com> wrote:
> FWIW I'm using Lotus Notes - although not really by choice! As I'm at work
> I don't get a choice of mail readers, let alone operating systems.

I've been wondering what terrible mailer you've been using that quotes
messages as below.  Anyway, I am forced to use Novell GroupWise at
work, which does not thread and does not properly quote reply text.
So, now I use GMail, which has a convenient web interface, does a
fairly good job of threading and properly quotes replies.  It's also
faster to search than GroupWise, too.  There are ads, but they are
text-only and on-topic.

You might want to check this out as an option.

Bradley

{Quote hidden}

2005\05\10@155920 by Matthew Miller

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face
On Tue, May 10, 2005 at 09:41:32AM +0200, jens persson wrote:
> <nitpick>
> It's not quite that easy, you have to take References headers into the
> picture (and free form In-Reply-To from RFC 822).
> For a full dissection of a good threading algorithm (there are some
> small things to tune, like Swedish MS lookout using SV: instead of Re:
> when answering by default) please read jwz's essay:
> http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html
> <\nitpick>

Thanks for the link. I've read other things on Jamie's site, but I've
not read that one. You're right about it not being as easy as I thought.
Well, my knowledge has been increased!

Remember everyone: start a new topic with a brand new message; not by
replying to a message and changing the subject! ;^)

Matthew

--
"In America, first you get the sugar, then you get the power, then you get
the women..."      -- Homer J. Simpson

2005\05\10@161224 by Richard.Prosser

flavicon
face

Lotus Notes - but not really by choice. There is a plan to return us to
outlook in the longer term but at the moment I'm mkre or less stuck with
it.

I am thinking of changing to use my Gmail account as this would give me
access from home as well. Might just give it a try although it seems very
slow from work at times..

Richard P



                                                                                                                               
                   Bradley                                                                                                    
                   Ferguson             To:     "Microcontroller discussion list - Public." <EraseMEpiclistspammit.edu>                  
                   <bradleyee@gm        cc:                                                                                    
                   ail.com>             Subject:     Re: [OT] Having a proper treaded discussion or how to use your mail      
                   Sent by:             reader.                                                                                
                   piclist-bounc                                                                                              
                   RemoveMEesEraseMEspamEraseMEmit.edu                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                               
                   11/05/05                                                                                                    
                   03:32                                                                                                      
                   Please                                                                                                      
                   respond to                                                                                                  
                   "Microcontrol                                                                                              
                   ler                                                                                                        
                   discussion                                                                                                  
                   list -                                                                                                      
                   Public."                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                               




On 5/9/05, RemoveMERichard.Prosserspam_OUTspamKILLspampowerware.com <RemoveMERichard.ProsserTakeThisOuTspamspampowerware.com>
wrote:
> FWIW I'm using Lotus Notes - although not really by choice! As I'm at
work
> I don't get a choice of mail readers, let alone operating systems.

I've been wondering what terrible mailer you've been using that quotes
messages as below.  Anyway, I am forced to use Novell GroupWise at
work, which does not thread and does not properly quote reply text.
So, now I use GMail, which has a convenient web interface, does a
fairly good job of threading and properly quotes replies.  It's also
faster to search than GroupWise, too.  There are ads, but they are
text-only and on-topic.

You might want to check this out as an option.

Bradley

>                     Matthew
>                     Miller               To:     "Microcontroller
discussion list - Public." <EraseMEpiclistspamspamspamBeGonemit.edu>
>                     <namiller2@na        cc:
>                     xs.net>              Subject:     Re: [OT] Having a
proper treaded discussion or how to use your mail
{Quote hidden}

2005\05\10@161800 by Richard.Prosser

flavicon
face

Er - I didn't write this.
RP




Richard.ProsserSTOPspamspamspam_OUTPowerware.com quotes and then writes:
>> would be interpretted as a new thread.  If this is not the case, what
>> field is keyed on to determine whether something is a thread or not?
>
snip...........



2005\05\11@073137 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Richard.Prosser@Powerware.com wrote:

> FWIW I'm using Lotus Notes - although not really by choice! As I'm at
> work I don't get a choice of mail readers, let alone operating systems.
>
> I must admit to being one who uses previous messages to change topics -
> too lazy to re-type _whatever the correct address is_  (spamBeGonepiclistSTOPspamspamEraseMEmit.edu
> ?). I'll try & memd my ways - I wasn't aware that it could cause a
> problem.

FWIW, in your case this doesn't cause the mentioned threading problem,
because your mailer causes a different problem (that masks the first one
:).

Your mailer doesn't seem to send out any In-Reply-To or References headers.
Therefore your messages don't get threaded properly in the first place; in
my reader they always appear as first level replies under the original
message with that subject.

Maybe this is something that can be configured.

Gerhard

2005\05\11@152842 by Richard Prosser

picon face
How's this? I changed to gmail & it seems to be working OK.
Yes - probably there is a setup in Notes to fix the In-Reply-To
problem - but one of the biggest problems I have with notes is finding
out how to make changes like this. It seems very powerful but I just
don't find it intuative.

RP

On 5/11/05, Gerhard Fiedler <KILLspamlistsspamBeGonespamconnectionbrazil.com> wrote:
{Quote hidden}

> -

2005\05\11@180152 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Martin McCormick wrote:

> I can either put the In-Reply-To: header in as it is here or leave it out
> by modifying the reply composition filter file.  The reason I have
> always left it out was because I don't like to put any more headers in
> replies than absolutely necessary.  I am sure many people hate to see
> messages with tons of headers and 1 little line at the bottom of actual
> informational content.  So, if it is of little value, I will leave it
> out as I mostly always have.  What are the thoughts by those who
> hopefully know more than I do about this topic?

For all those who look at the conversations in a threaded form (this group
includes at least me :) this header may be quite important, in that it
helps the user agent to show the message in the right position in the
thread.

I at least think that amidst the 39 or so header lines your message has
when I get it (that's the headers you added, the ones the email servers on
the way to MIT added, the ones MIT adds to all mailing lists, the piclist
headers, the headers of the email servers on the way from MIT to the
destination, and in my case the gmane news headers), the In-Reply-To and
References headers add little overhead but a lot of functionality.

Gerhard

2005\05\11@180407 by Gerhard Fiedler

picon face
Richard Prosser wrote:

> How's this? I changed to gmail & it seems to be working OK.

Yes. This is probably the first time I see a message of yours threaded
correctly :)

> Yes - probably there is a setup in Notes to fix the In-Reply-To problem -
> but one of the biggest problems I have with notes is finding out how to
> make changes like this. It seems very powerful but I just don't find it
> intuative.

Can't help you there... I know Notes only by the name.

Gerhard

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